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Choreography · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: From how to get inspired to create an award-winning theme to what judges look for in competition choreography.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact at Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I am here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we are talking about all things choreography tonight on the podcast.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we are with two amazing IDA judges, Joey and Adrian.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they are here and they're gonna tell us a little bit about their background, their past, and we're gonna talk and dig super deep into uh choreography tonight and what we expect to see as judges um on the competition stage for choreography and things like that.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mr.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Joey, tell me all about you, even though I know all about you, but the pod listeners want to know all about you.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you live?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: What have you done in your life?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Lay it out.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my name's Joey Rodellani.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm originally from Long Island in New York.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have been working for about 11 years now in the industry.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I my first job ever was with Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines, which I know I'm in good company with that.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I am currently uh still auditioning in the city, not so much on a very frequent basis.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I did the Broadway national tour of a musical called Bullets Over Broadway, and I've done various television gigs, Saturday Night Live, Good Morning America, and I'm now currently the competition director at a studio on Long Island called Jan Martin Dance Studio, where I am not just a choreographer and a teacher, but I'm also the head of their competition team as far as logistics and planning and auditioning, competition season.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I also judge for impact dance adjudicators throughout the season for multiple different dance competitions over probably about the past 10 years.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing! And Joey's one of my closest friends as well, which I like to throw in there.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: We met doing uh uh amazing Christmas review show in Atlantic City about 10 years ago almost.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, we're old.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know amazing.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much, Joey.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Adrian, how are you?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me all about you, where you're at, what you're doing currently, and any credits that you'd like to share.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hi guys.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so I'm originally from Troy, Alabama, which is bite-sized, very tiny.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_04: I uh graduated high school and moved to New York to do the Fordham Ailey BFA program.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, thought that I didn't want to dance and wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon, so I transferred schools.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I was presented with the opportunity to transfer back to Troy University.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: Not I hadn't been there, but it's my hometown, which I never thought that I would ever go to college in my tiny hometown.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: But I was presented with the opportunity to transfer to Troy and help start a dance program, which we had none of.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I transferred for a third year in a row and felt like a super hardcore failure.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_04: But we ended up creating this incredible, um, mind-blowing dance program that's just one of the best experiences I've ever been through.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: But after graduating from Troy University, I uh moved to Atlanta, danced with some companies there, did some freelance work, and then moved to New York to dance uh off Broadway with a company called Iluminate.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I danced with them for it, it was a super crazy full experience.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of hip hop dancers, and I am a contemporary ballet dancer.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I learned a lot about how to move my body.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: But did that for about three years.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: We did several world tours as long, I mean, along with our off-Broadway run.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: And then I left uh that show and almost immediately started dancing with Bad Boys of Dance, did several world tours with them in the show Romeo and Juliet, had hip and ankle surgery the day I got home from tour.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I decided about two years ago to get my master's in choreography.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I just graduated in April with my MFA.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: It was a long, difficult road, but I am a totally different human now.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: So it's so worth it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I just started in August as a dance professor here at Troy University.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing full circle.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, so full circle.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: How exciting.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: So all of the episodes for the first season of Making the Impact are based on previous hot topics from the IDA Judges blog.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to check out any more of our blogs on each and every topic, head over to Impact Danceadjudicators.com slash judges blog to read more.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: The blog that inspired this episode was released in February of 2017, and it's called Choreography at Competition.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: It had a lot of great nuggets of inspiration from a few of our IDA judges.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So if you want to read even more about choreography, head on over to the blog.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: So guys, I love that we've we have both of you on this episode because we've got a very collegiate higher education sort of mindset coming from Adrian with choreography.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then we have, you know, straight out of you know, you choreograph routines for competition, regularly Joey.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: So my question to both of you to just kind of kickstart this is how do you start?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: How do you even begin with choreography?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Is it the same process every time, depending on what you're doing?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do you change it up?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do you pick the music first and then you start?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have an idea and then you start?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody give me, give me your process.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for me personally, I mean, from where I'm coming from, this season alone in 2019, I'm choreographing, I think, 42 or 43 competition pieces.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You are insane.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um between the studio that I am the competitive director at, and then I actually started working at a second studio on Long Island as well.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So between those two studios, I believe it's 42 or 43 pieces.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it varies as far as where you start with each piece.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: With soloists specifically, I always like to sit with my soloist, and while, you know, as a teacher, it's our job to guide a student and you know, say, I think this music is what's best for you or the style that we're going with this year.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, I really feel strongly that when especially a teenage or a junior dancer loves the music that they're dancing to, they're going to do a better job.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you have to really force them into a song choice just because you like it, they're not going to dance to their fullest potential.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: If they can really lock into it and clue into it, they're going to really excel with it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I usually follow that same rule of thumb when it comes to duets and trios because you're in such a small, confined space.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Once I personally enter into groups, I sort of remove an element of choice from it and say, I'm gonna guide the group in this direction, and you just kind of have to trust that I know where I'm going with it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I typically start in song choice because I think it really dictates the foundation of where you're gonna take each piece and the vocabulary that you want to build with it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: Nice, awesome.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's good luck.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: Good luck this season.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a task.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: Adrian, can we hear a little bit about your process?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I actually really agree with Joey.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: I have always been super motivated by the music.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: And if I'm not, then it's like pulling nails to find movement.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm not good with music.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: I can't read music.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: I don't count music well.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: I am not a musician.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know why, but something about music just really like just gets into my soul.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: So um, so I usually pretty much always start with music.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: I do now and have for the past several years work a lot more with the collegiate level, uh, but I still do a lot of freelance choreography for different studios.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: So it varies a lot, usually, exactly what Joey said for solos.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: I very much feel that the dancers' connection with the music is hugely important and how they're gonna perform.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_04: So we usually kind of I let them suggest a few, like maybe three to five, and then I listen and we kind of have a discussion back and forth.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh for groups, it usually uh I let the the studio owner, since it's usually studios that I haven't worked with a ton, I usually let the studio owner let me know if they have some kind of direction that they really want to go in.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: And generally they will.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes they're just like, no, whatever you want to do, which is great.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: But to know what direction they want to go in is really helpful.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_04: Here on the collegiate level, it really is dependent upon you know what the performance is.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: Is it a basketball game?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_04: Is it a concert?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_04: Is it a piece we're gonna travel and perform?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just pretty varied for me, but I agree so much with what Joey said.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_04: I think music and dancers' connection to the music is huge.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I know for myself, when I when I'm working with my students, say at the studio where I'm the director, I've been there for eight years.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So as far as for group routines, I try not to repeat myself.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: If I did whatever, uh a Vanessa Carlton song the year before and it's got a little bit more of a throwback vibe, maybe the next year I'll do a completely instrumental song and push them in a com in a totally different direction and come up with a theme and a story set without lyrics so that they're they're venturing out from lyrical to contemporary.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to not repeat myself, especially when I'm working with the same students from one year to the next.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that also what I did the year before helps guide how I search for music for the for the next year.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's so important for them, you know, to like expand their horizons because it can get tough too.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I even see this in the collegiate world, and I'm only working with them for four years.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I can imagine if you're like growing them up for 18 years.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_04: But it can get so tough to work with the same students and for them to work with the same teacher, uh, you get, I don't know, I just feel like there's a little bit of like staleness that can happen on both ends.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that keeping it fresh that way and making it different, pushing them in different directions.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Adrian, you said something a second ago that sparked another question that I wanted to ask.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: You said uh, you know, sometimes if you're if you're with the same choreographer, the same students for a long time, there can be a staleness that happens between, you know, with either party.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um so how do you guys uh stay fresh as choreographers and what inspires you and what kind of off the wall things inspire you?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think we can all point to, you know, this music inspired me, or this costume really made me think of this song, or you know, those are kind of the basic things, but like how can we dive deeper as choreographers to be inspired to do something different?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Give me your thoughts.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I'll jump in.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I think I have uh really started to let improvisation uh inform my choreography, especially if it's a small group, because I have forever tried to make dancers look like me doing the choreography that I am good at.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: And that is not successful.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um so learning to learning to really uh work with improvisation in a productive way, so that you can kind of give them this outline, but then you see like what naturally comes out of their body, and then you can see how to push that in a different direction.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: But it comes from a place, if it's coming from a natural place for them, even if we have to push it or change it or develop it slightly, if it's coming from a natural place, there's a way for them to really own it and and really perform it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_04: And to just give a dancer movement that maybe they don't have any connection to or any real frame of reference, or maybe their body doesn't necessarily move the same way.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like you just can't ever really like get it the way you want it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I and that was not really the answer to your question, but because that's amazing.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: Keep going.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_04: Because improvisation has really become a big part of my process, I think that that is a big part of what really helps keep it fresh because it's using their brains, which so often come up with things that my brain could never come up with.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: And what I feel like I have kind of been drawn to within the past couple of years, is really standing on the outside, especially with group work, not necessarily smaller groups, but larger group work and kind of directing it more than choreographing it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: Of course, you're still giving them movement, but but really it's kind of a whole picture.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the other thing that I've really kind of gotten into, and we we we study this a lot in um the MFA process is like using external sources.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, I don't know, it could be a space on the floor that's taped out, or uh like the ballet bars, and you're moving through the ballet bars, and like how does that change your movement?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so whatever the object is, it could be a small object, it could be a big space, it could be a piano, it could be a box.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then you explore with that object, and then you take the object out of the picture.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then try to keep the same movement, but see how it changes without um an external source.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_04: So it could be anything, it could even be environment, you know, go stand outside in the trees and move around and see what happens.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I've I've been kind of in a place lately of like using external things.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's so inspiring.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really that's a really interesting answer.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I am glad that that was your answer because not like the question, unlike the question before, where we perfectly agreed, I'm the 100% totally opposite direction.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: 100 100%.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and not and that's not to say that I disagree with how you approach it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Our approaches are just completely on the opposite sides of the spectrum.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I, as a dancer, and this may perhaps be to my detriment, do not excel nor enjoy any kind of improv work whatsoever.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm um yeah, it it for some reason, and it's something that I really should probably get over at some point.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it it sinks into a great level of insecurity where I think as a dancer, or really as dancers in general, especially auditioning dancers, our goal is to just please and give the person who's auditioning us what they want.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I have found in my personal experience with teenagers, specifically in the region, probably where I teach, there's a very strong desire to get it right and get it right right away.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And improvisation for in my experience, sort of just opens the door to doing it wrong.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm using ear quotes when I say doing it wrong because the podcasters can't see me.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um my process really comes from especially when you choreograph on such a scale uh of you know 40 something different pieces, you need to really switch up your vocabulary so that things don't start to look the same.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So my if something that's been really important to me from year to year is really take my breaks.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if the season ends with recital or if a teacher, if they do nationals or whatever, I really try not to teach throughout the entire summer.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And my summers are usually fill I try to fill with um just dance for myself where I don't have to be, again, you're using ear quotes, Mr.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Joey, where you know I don't have to run the room, I can just participate in somebody else's room and draw on for me personally.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: One of my credits that I didn't mention was I work for a company in New York with Josh Prince called uh Dance Lab of New York.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And each week we work with a different choreographer, and it really turns into a masterclass in that particular choreographer's values and styles and experiencing other people's styles and movements really helps inform where I want to go.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of just how I keep myself fresh.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Again, going back to music choice, not doing the same thing from one year to the next, making sure each of the songs that you pick for if I'm doing an entire teen group of soloists and all these girls do their group routines and then they have their solo times, I make sure that every single one of their song choices sounds nothing like the other.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because how many times do you just find sometimes and there's nothing wrong with them, but an acoustic cover of something, and then the three different acoustic covers by the same music artists feel the tangible same.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So then if you're the same choreographer choreographing to that same style, then all of a sudden you find that your body is moving the same way to that same piece.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I just I really try to find um those different influences in participating in dance in a different way myself and making sure that you know, if I'm a com if I'm comfortable in theater dance, I'm not gonna go take a theater dance class all the time.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe I'll take one because it's fun in the city, but maybe I'll push myself this week and I'll go take a contemporary class with Mike Esperanza because it's a completely uncomfortable style for my body and it's gonna teach me something new.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And another way it stays not fresh is really understanding that you're never done learning.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I actually sometimes take a little bit of a question mark with the phrase master teacher because I'm not a master of anything.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're always changing, we're always growing.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a guest teacher, I'm an experienced teacher, I'm a whatever you want to call it, but you know, I am always changing, I'm always learning something myself.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: My routines that I look at, you know, that I'm choreographing currently.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I go back and look at a video of something I choreographed four or five years ago, I'm like, what headspace was I in?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: How did I make that?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not that it's not that it's bad or good, I just don't remember being in that headspace.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if I had that same piece of music now, I would do something completely different.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, talking about the music, I I'd like to briefly talk about music choice and how we find new music and things like that as helpful tips because I think that music at competition can be uh a podcast in itself.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh perhaps it will be.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: It probably will be.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, do you how do you find your music inspiration?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you just like for hours on end stalk Spotify or Apple Music until you're inspired?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or um, you know, have you did you hear something?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I am actually like shopping at Forever 21 or Yes, that's exactly what I do.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I should say I'm the same.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're sticking your phone up to the ceiling to hopefully pick up the sound.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's totally it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, this would be such a cute jazz routine right now.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as far as music choice for me, it really it it it I sit for hours.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I do sit for hours on end.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say probably around January, in anticipation of choreography season in August of that same year.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I hear a song, I just write it down or I take a little note of it, or I write down an artist that somebody tells me about.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I really do try, I try my very hardest to maybe try to anticipate if I hear a song and I'm like, oh, I think everybody's gonna do this.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good song, but I'm gonna depart from it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know if it's a bad thing to pick up, pick out a particular song, but you know, Celine Dion Ashes, when that song came out, I was like, here's a new Celine song.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't had a new Celine song since it's all coming back to us.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I bet people are gonna do it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then there it was.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't you know it at each at each regional, there's probably about 15 or 16 ashes happening.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's not bad.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean a dancer has been counted out because they have a song that three other people did.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: It just means, you know, in dance, in fashion, and as you enter adulthood, it becomes more about standing out than fitting in.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you come out on stage with a song that I have never heard before in my life, it's automatically gonna make my ears perk up and I'm gonna be like, ah, I'm in the middle of a 15-entry-long contemporary category, and you're the only person that did a song I haven't heard before.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you can you can bul, but you also have to know when to sort of close your computer and say, I'm done for the day, and just make a choice because if you keep hesitating, you're gonna go forever if you overthink it.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody else has your song, it's fine.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: It happens from time to time.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you just go down the rabbit hole, you go by who else bought this artist, like and find another artist that's similar to it on iTunes, or you know, find a Spotify channel that's called, I think there is a Spotify channel called Female Acoustic Covers.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you can go down that rabbit hole.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And once you f but once you find an artist, you say, Well, maybe I won't take the song that's their top-selling song.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I go to that artist and see what else does this person have?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be afraid to listen to it.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's something that for me, like, um, you know, as a judge, I think it's kind of crazy.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're talking about song choice for a little moment, but it's crazy to me, like what becomes a competition song.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like how it's like everybody like knows, like, oh, this is this is the song for competition dance.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I don't hear that song anywhere else in life except for in competition.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's not playing at the grocery store.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I also wonder some I always wonder sometimes though, because I feel like I pr I specifically don't watch shows like World of Dance or So You Think You Can Dance sometimes, mostly because I don't want to find myself I don't want to find myself drawing other people's ideas that are already really popular or like music choices on TV.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: But likewise I also want to remain ignorant to if a song was used there because if I find out that it is, then it might ruin the idea that I might have.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like choreography since we're talking about choreography, there was a video of a group on World of Dance, and there was they're all standing in a complete line so that if the camera's on the girl in front, everybody's lined up perfectly.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: But they have their hands on the sides of someone's heads and they do that like ripple moment.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes like that, and uh And not that uh not in the spirit of saying people are stealing choreography, but I saw that ripple line a lot this season.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that video and that video was all over Facebook and Instagram.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw that lineup, that ripple, that one, two, three, that one two going to the side.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people attempted to do what they had seen on this um really popular video.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Which is which is to be expected.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you see something and it really strikes you and you want to take a stab at making it your own, that's kind of what dance is, is just the free flowing of other people's thoughts into one another and being dictated by different music choices, as we've been talking about.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: I want to just tag into that really quickly.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: So kind of going back to the inspiration thing, I think what Joey was saying about just taking time for your own creativity.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I hear people say all the time that like your creativity is a muscle, and if you're not exercising it, then it's the same as if you're not doing plies ever and you like expect to go dance.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's not gonna happen.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that that's really important to keep uh the choreography fresh, but I think that's also super important for the music, you know, to just be constantly trying to listen to different things.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think we get in like a oh, this is the kind of music I like, but there's so much out there.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: So to just constantly try to keep yourself in front of different inspirational things in different realms, like not just staying in the world of dance, but you know, listening to poetry or watching opera or going to the symphony, I don't know, you know, just all the kinds of different elements that are in the arts and how do those inspire and inform our movement and our choices.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: I do think, you know, like what Joy was just saying about the ripple thing, I think it's really, I mean, we all do.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_04: We all watch things and we take it and it inspires us and we make it our own, and like it's it's a part of this world.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: And obviously, there's a big difference between stealing choreography and and letting something inspire you.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: But we all let things inspire us consciously and subconsciously.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: But I do think it is important as you're going through competition season to kind of be aware of like what's appearing in every single group dance that you're seeing, and maybe make some adjustments because something that's really innovative and really interesting the first few times you see it after you've seen it 15 times as a judge, it then of kind kind of becomes, you know what?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's not innovative at all.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and sometimes we don't realize when we're in our own studio, you know, you don't realize until you get to competition, oh wow, everybody's using this song, or oh wow, everybody's got a ripple in the middle of their dance.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's I think it's okay too to kind of make those adjustments as the season goes on and realize wow, this is being used a lot.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_04: But I do think it's important because it kind of takes the power away from the moment when you've seen it 22 times, you know.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was judging at an event in Connecticut last year, and uh a young woman came out and she did a soloist, and I was captivated and struck by her.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember it was something the dance was about running or something, and she had a long dress on, and from like a piked position, she was running and throwing her dress in either direction.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, she's just so committed to the movement.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then three soloists later, a girl from the same studio came out and she had a long dress on, and she was running and throwing that dress from side to side, and I said, Okay, and then two or three more group routines came out, and I was like, the same choreographer has clearly worked with these different moments, and while there's no rule against the repeating of a step, right, it lost its impact by the third or fourth group that they that I saw it in, where that first girl who, by luck of the draw, happened to go first and really was committed to running and throwing that dress side to side.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Had I seen the group dance go first, I might have been captivated by the whole group throwing that dress from side to side.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: But then by the time it's just you kind of have to sort of we have to police ourselves as choreographers, especially when we choreograph in bulk.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: What do you want?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: What do we want as judges?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: You guys just really you you hit the nail on the head, I think, with you know, police yourself as a choreographer.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Don't repeat yourself, don't find yourself drawn to this one thing and then put it in every single dance.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: What else, what else would you like to see out there?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like what's going to be an award-winning choreography number for you?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I think a a lot of what we've just said, uh, but I think I don't know.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: I I feel like, and I grew up in both the concert world and the competition world.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: So uh I feel very um blessed to have had both of those kind of educations simultaneously.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that there's this misconception that like competition dance has to be one thing and then like concert dance has to be another.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, sure, there's there's yes, there's gonna be differences, but like I don't think we have to look at competition dance as like this is what it needs to be.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think it just can be art that we're creating and exploring.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that every person I've ever judged with, and like my friends that are on other judging panels, like I think we're just all kind of interested in what what's the art?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how can we dig in and make this real and honest and human and like find connections?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I think, my goodness, I could go on a tangent, I won't, but like where we are in the world today, I just think human connection is like so important.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think as artists, we have this beautiful, incredible opportunity that not a lot of other people have in the world to communicate with people on a hugely meaningful level.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think just binding how do we do that, whether it's fun and sassy and flirty or sexy and strong or beautiful, like what it doesn't have to be like I don't know, crazy interpretive contemporary.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_04: You can connect with someone in a super fun musical theater tap piece, just as beautifully as you can connect with somebody in a really pedestrian, sad modern piece.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_04: But I just think a little bit more exploration of the art is kind of what I would love to see.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: And a little bit straying away from like what is everyone doing, I even kind of could get into that with comp costumes, you know, like used to be like everybody's in just a leotard, and like I don't really know if the hip-hop piece needs to be in just a leotard.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure, I'm not sure about that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to take it in uh in once again in a totally opposite, I completely agree.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I completely agree with everything you just said.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I often, when I'm choreographing pieces, I want to create a moment in the room um from an artistic perspective.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell my girls, their goal should never be a win because you can't, a win comes from what other people are bringing to the table.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: But my goal for them to, for them to try to put out there is create an experience in the room.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I want people from other studios to look up from their program and even though it's not their own kid, be paying attention to what's happening.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so as a choreographer, that's my goal on that home front.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: If we're looking for specific advice, though, for teachers to really hear, it's really making sure that you're choreographing for the level that your students are at, is a specific notion.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a novice soloist that is seven years old, eight years old, we would love to see them do precise movement that is in time with their music, that shows us a clean picture, and that they are starting to learn how to do their single and double pirouettes that they can get on stage and smile without glancing to the wing to look at their mom or their parent or whoever's back there with them.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And likewise, if you're still a senior and you're in the novice division, there is no pressure whatsoever to do Alice Accone turns.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I do not need to see you attempt a switch leap.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do not need to see you really choreographing for who your dancer is and where they're at in life as far as their dance education is concerned.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same thing in a group setting.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if they're not ready to attempt a lift, by all means, please do not give them a lift.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather see two and a half minutes of a clean routine that is perfectly on level, whether it be a group or a smaller or a soloist or whatever it is, it goes a million miles.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's really no pressure.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of choreographers feel like, you know, they have to do more, are they not doing enough?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are they not showcasing enough?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then it kind of goes hand in hand back to every competition has time limits when it comes to how long things can be.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: As a judge, my advice is do not feel obligated to max out your time frames.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: If a soloist's maximum time limit is two minutes and 45 seconds, by all means make that solo two minutes and 15 seconds.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've done high energy, I've done high energy jazz numbers that are a minute and 55 seconds because it's just if you're doing if you're doing this jazz material, if you're an advanced 16-year-old soloist and you're doing a high-energy, fast-paced jazz solo, it's not sustainable to dance two minutes and 45 seconds.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that's another really latch-on moment for teachers and choreographers that you know, sometimes less is more.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then even down to what you said about costuming, the music should complement the choreography, should complement the costume, the costume should compliment the choreography.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if your dancers are doing something with a lot of floor work and with a lot of, you know, whatever, maybe having a long dress doesn't work for this one.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's in style, I know it's a this, I know it's a that, but it might be best to have something form-fitting for this contemporary number where they're jumping on each other and rolling on the floor.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, for this jazz number for a little extra movement on a hip shake, maybe you do throw a fringe on that one.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: But having a fringe on some other style, you know, those things all really do go hand in hand.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And my last little thing about choreography, because obviously I could go off on a tangent forever about what we're looking for, specifically in uh contemporary routines, but I guess it can find its way into really any other genre.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: I am finding a trend in routines turning into looking like a stretching exhibition.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: If that makes any sense, where you know, we're standing there and we go to a heel stretch and we hold it for two counts of eight, and then we come down and we go into our scorpion for two counts of eight, and then we slide down into a split and we sit there for two counts of eight.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Where it just goes, it becomes a moment of going trick to trick to trick to trick to trick.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not anti-trick.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so great.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think we work our whole lives to build this really impressive skill set that feels like a superpower, and you deserve to have your two and a half minutes on stage and show us all of those things you've been working hard on.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: But as a choreographer, it's totally our job to make those experiences, those executions of those moments make sense.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just bouncing from front aerial to split to heel stretch to heel stretch on the floor.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And not to say, oh, heel stretch is bad, but if you have done five botmas on the right and then do three more heel stretches on the right, we get it.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Your right leg is your better leg.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're showing me botma on the right right into your botma on the left and they're equal height and they're both equally controlled.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have an execution of a really impressive skill set and it makes sense.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's a perfect point.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've seen it way too many times at competition where like it's a beautiful routine, maybe it's a lyrical powerhouse routine, and we're taken on this lovely journey, and the dancers are performing their hearts out, and then all of a sudden someone just runs and does like a gymnastics pass for no reason in the middle of the day.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't need to do an aerial, it didn't make sense.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to make sense with the routine, you know.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to have some amazing explosive moments, then make sure that it happens at the build, the climax of the music, you know, and then also just kind of step back and make sure is that you know amazing impressive gymnastic skill or a a key part of this routine, does this have to be in here?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And are they executing it properly as well?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, as judges, we always say less is more.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Don't show us what you can't do, show us what you can do.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you know the teacher is telling a dancer, hey, you got your aerial this year, we're putting it in your solo, and you know, and the dancer's so excited.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: But wherever the aerial is placed in the solo, maybe she's out of steam by two minutes in, but that's where the climax and the music is.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: So choreographically, it's where it belongs, but they can't execute it, then that's when the teacher has to come in and decide, is this really worth it?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're automatically gonna lose some technical points if it's not, you know, performed at its and the ins and the outs are as important as well.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I always tell my students that it doesn't matter if you can get around three times in a pirouette if your dismount out of it or into it is not as seamless or as technically correct as it needs to be.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of doesn't count.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always bring up the Olympics with ice skaters, they always slow it down and look where that toe pick made contact with the ice to make sure you actually did a triple, whatever the the whatever the proper phrase is.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I always I always think of, you know, it's great that she did that front aerial and you got that really beautiful photograph out of it because the cameraman snapped a picture.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: But when I heard her knee crash to the ground because that was the way it was, you know what I mean?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's you have to think of the volume of a heel.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're doing a toe rise, cool, you did a toe rise, yes, the picture is beautiful, but did you do it on sickled ankles?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can't get your toe rise without sickling your ankles, then by all means, please take it out.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, Courtney, show us what you can do, not what you can't do.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Safety shows.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Show us what you excel at.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Show us what you excel at.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Every dancer has something that they're good at.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's so wonderful about different levels of competition, novice intermediate, advanced.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: You as a novice dancer, you do not have to execute the same skill set that a that an advanced dancer does.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: So show us what you excel at because having novice intermediate and advanced really creates a space where every skill set opportunity to show what they're good at.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: I was just gonna say, I love it when you have maybe like a novice dancer, even an intermediate dancer who might not be a skilled technician, but like is an insane performer.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and a teacher just really gives them like nice, solid, clean movement, and they can just perform the heck out of it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_04: I just love that, you know?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like really knowing what where your strong points are.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I love to be entertained too, you know.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if we're if we're talking about what we're really looking for, I mean, change the mood of the room.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Very rarely does something at competition even make an attempt at making me laugh, let alone actually making me laugh.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you ever do a routine that injects humor or, you know, um sometimes people really, like you said, Adrian, really rag on what competition dance is.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And a few years ago, I remember I did a jazz number to sort of spite the people that were like, I really don't want to see botmas for no reason.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know what?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing a 1980s jazz number and they're gonna bot ma for no reason, and they're gonna bot ma well, and it's gonna be precision jazz, and it's gonna be exciting and entertaining and fun.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what the point of this piece is to be exciting and entertaining and fun.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: It does not need to be, you know, why were we dancing to Ricky Martin?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was just fun.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was just fun today, and we wanted we wanted to entertain you.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, another thing to think about as well is I've I've sat on panels where I think a choreographer, you know, has created something that they're extremely proud of because of course every choreographer is proud of what they create.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, we as choreographers want to make sure that our story and our message is coming across in the proper way, in the sense where I've sat on panels where I've watched a dance and I'm like, I like what's happening here, but I'm not sure if I really understand the story.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I kind of want a lot of times I want to, and then I feel like that I, you know, maybe it will say that on my critique, and then of course I might upset the choreographer because they are looking at it as well, how do you not get that?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I put it right in front of your face.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I explain, you know, how did you not understand that?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of like, or I didn't really get it, you know.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: So in a way, maybe we have to make sure, like, not over exaggerate, you know, things in a sense, but uh, especially with specific storylines or things, we have to make sure that our audience is understanding as well.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: At the same, in the same sense, on the flip side, there have been times where I've I'm like, I don't know what the story is, but you guys took me on this journey.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I I am moved and I this was uh stunning and beautiful, and like congratulations, you know, and and that just you know, it feels great too.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it it depends.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I of course it depends on the style.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing a musical theater, obviously we need the storytelling, we need to know, and uh uh not every judge is gonna know what musical the you know the dance is from and know the backstory and stuff like that.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: So really make sure that the teachers are you know setting the scene and setting the characters, but in contemporary and lyrical routines, there's that uh that option to take us on, you know, an experience and with the movement.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously the storytelling and the performance has to complement the choreography and you know add to that next layer.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: But on that same, on that same point though, you know, you really hit the nail on the head with, you know, what we do as dancers and as choreographers, this is a performing art, it's an art form.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's a reason it's not football, that it's not a sport, which is difficult because in the competitive world, you're kind of putting a sports like rule book around it to sort of be like dissected, where in the world of art it's always subjective to the person that's watching it.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: So as a teacher, and uh as a teacher that has obviously many routines that go to competition each season, you know, if I take my dancers to four competitions, three judges per per competition, that's 12 different voices that are scrutinizing my work.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've kind of accepted that sometimes I'm like, yeah, I went a little off the rails with this one.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can kind of see their opinion and not let it be such a huge uh try not to try not to take it as an insult if a choreographer looks at you, especially because, you know, Courtney, I've sat next to you, I've heard how you critique, it's always in a constructive sort of way.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're not saying this routine is stupid, I don't get it.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're saying, I see what you're doing.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've kind of just not really arrived at maybe the conclusion you wanted me to.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: If it's something that as artists we are happy with having created, that has to be enough at the end of the day.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: I've said the same thing Courtney has said before, like, oh, I d I I'm not exactly sure what just happened, but I loved it.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: And what I usually say, because it's usually true, if if I'm not if I don't know exactly what happened, I can tell that you people on stage knew exactly what you were talking about.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that is what matters to me the most, is that you know, I can be lost over here in the dark, but if you prove to me within your movement and your intent and the way you're moving and expressing yourselves that you know what you're talking about, done.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all are good.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: You I don't even need to be involved.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because you know, if if it's that good, if you if you guys, as the choreographer and the in the group of students have done your work of giving the story to them and letting it be their story, then it doesn't matter if if I didn't get, you know, the the the whole plot.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think a good tip if uh you are concerned, um because there's this whole like controversy, it's a little more in the concert world, but this whole controversy of like art doesn't have to be understood, it can just be what it is, you know?
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that if it is really important to you that somebody watching it for the first time gets the story that you have, I think um it can be really helpful to bring in new eyes like before you take it to competition for the first time.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, somebody who hasn't seen it yet and just bring them in, and then that way you can see like, is this reading to an outside eye?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: Because when we're working with it constantly, it's so clear to us.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like this makes so much sense.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it's hard to remove yourself and go, like, hmm, I wonder if somebody who's already watched 35 dances in three seconds is gonna get the same thing that I'm getting after working with this for eight months, you know.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Be gentle with yourselves, choreographers.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would say we have so much pressure on us to really always lead our teams, lead our students to a place of success, to a place of growth, and to a place of, especially in competitive worlds, a win or acknowledgement for your choreography at competition.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do not approach, I don't suggest you approach your choreography with stakes.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be gentle with yourselves, be gentle with your dancers, and know that it is an artistic process and don't be too precious with your work either.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think really it's gonna depend on you know what your goal is, but I think just looking at choreography and movement uh as how do you push yourself a little bit further each time?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_04: And for the dancers too, you know, whether it's physically pushing yourself or emotionally pushing yourself or a combination of the two, choreographically pushing yourself.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: How can you push yourself just a little bit further each day?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: I think that keeps us fresh.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_04: It keeps us learning, like Joey said, we've always learning, always, always, always.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_04: And so just how do you push yourself a little bit further?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_04: What makes that happen for you, you know?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much to our guests, Igrane and Joey, for joining us for this all about choreography.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: To learn more about our guests, follow them on Instagram, Avery at 8324 on J at G or Telegraph.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: Submit your questions to us on our website at www.infacultism.com.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_03: Slash podcast to be audio or classics to remain anonymous, and Courtney will give you a shout-out for that.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: A quick word from one of our IDA affiliated competitions and sponsors.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just Dance Invitational is a new kind of dance competition, and they invite you to join them at one of their events.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Rather than trophies, Just Dance Invitational finds more value in providing complimentary workshop classes and awarding dancers with class scholarships to be used towards college tuition and intensive programs.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Their ultimate vision is to create a positive space to inspire, motivate, and invest in the future of our dancers.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: By supporting these young artists, Just Dance Invitational aims to empower dancers to take over the world.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Head to their website now to check out upcoming tour dates for their 2020 season at JustDanceImitational.com.
• 44:48
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• 44:53
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• 44:59
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• 45:02
  SPEAKER_03: Coming up in the next few weeks, we've got Boys and Dance, Big Range Expectations Technique, and bonus QA episodes recorded.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and Spotify, and tune in every Monday for new episodes.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: As always, we're so glad you joined us for this episode of Making the Impact.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Till next time.