Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Raising Resilient Kids Starts with Risky Play

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Raising Resilient Kids Starts with Risky Play · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Lately, I've been doing a lot of resilience workshops, lots
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: of parents worried about their kids resilience. There's one topic
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: that I bring up in that resilience workshop that gets
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: parents one of two things, either very very excited or
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: very very upset, nervous, worried and anxious. The topic is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: risky play Stay with us, Kylie, you can understand both.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Right as soon as I start saying it's good for
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  Speaker 1: your children to do things that are risky, you can
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: see why they might hesitate. They might pause and say, yeah,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: but are you.
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  Speaker 2: Talking about leaving your kids with some matches and paper. Yeah.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's what camping is.
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  Speaker 2: For climbing the climbing frame on their own.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: A bit boring. I'd liked more risk than that. Let's
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: speak about climbing frames for a sec. When you were
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  Speaker 1: a youngster, back in the olden days before computers BC,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: what was your favorite piece of playground equipment.
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  Speaker 2: It was this massive pine tree in the back of
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  Speaker 2: my school playground.
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  Speaker 1: Sorry just pause right there. Note I said playground equipment,
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  Speaker 1: and you have gone straight out of the playground to
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  Speaker 1: the tree. I love that this was not prescripted. You
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  Speaker 1: didn't know the question was coming. Tell me more about
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  Speaker 1: the pine tree. Why'd you like it so much?
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  Speaker 2: It would have been maybe seven stories high, like, it
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  Speaker 2: was massive, and it had these beautiful big bows just
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: stretching out, which felt like for Miles as a little kid,
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  Speaker 2: and me and my friends would climb up and we
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  Speaker 2: would whoa, woh woah, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa.
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  Speaker 1: Hang on, you're at school and you're climbing trees. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that was allowed.
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  Speaker 2: That was allowed.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: And we would each claim about and that was our bedroom.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: And we used to take some pine leaves and pine
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  Speaker 2: needles and sweep the floor because there was no grass underneath,
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  Speaker 2: that was all dirt. And then we'd use the pine
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  Speaker 2: cones and we'd make, you know, different things to eat.
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  Speaker 2: Was just so much fun. Like that is honestly, hands
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  Speaker 2: down my favorite childhood memory. Justin yes, what was your
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  Speaker 2: favorite playground equipment when you were a kid?
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  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks so much for asking. My favorite? I had
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  Speaker 1: a couple. Do you remember those? I think that you
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  Speaker 1: would call it a merry.
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  Speaker 2: Go round, a chuck up spinning thing.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't so much a chuck up thing. I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to get to that in a sec. It was
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  Speaker 1: the thing where you'd get I don't know, five or
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  Speaker 1: ten kids sitting on it, and then one person would
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  Speaker 1: hold the handrail and just run as fast as you
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  Speaker 1: could and spin as fast as you could. And it
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  Speaker 1: was just delightful to stand on that thing and push
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  Speaker 1: it around in a circle as fast as you could.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone got sick on it, but
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  Speaker 1: super sou all the time. So we also had this
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: thing at a park near my house. It was kind
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of like a little sphere and you could climb into
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: it and there was a handle in the middle that
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: you could spin the handle that was the vomitron.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's disgusting, spin around.
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  Speaker 1: And also at the park where near where I grew
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  Speaker 1: up in Niagara Park, just off Gilda Drive, there was
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  Speaker 1: a park there and it had what felt at the
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  Speaker 1: time to be the biggest slide in the world. Just
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  Speaker 1: down the road from my grandma and grandpa in Cardigan
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  Speaker 1: Street in Auburn, there was a park as well, just
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  Speaker 1: next to Duck Creek and they had a slide. So
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  Speaker 1: the big slide near where I drew up, it followed
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  Speaker 1: the land as the land slid down, It just went
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  Speaker 1: down the land, so you could always just get out
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  Speaker 1: of the slide and put your feet on the ground,
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  Speaker 1: whereas the one in anm Pops. It had the tallest
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  Speaker 1: ladder of any slide I've ever seen in any playground
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  Speaker 1: in history. It was huge. They were my favorites. Oh
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: and big swings, not the little playground swings like we
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  Speaker 1: have now. Back in my day, I can't believe I
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: just said that we used to have swings and they
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  Speaker 1: were so big that you couldn't reach the person as
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  Speaker 1: they swung back to you because they were swinging so high.
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  Speaker 1: We don't do any of that sort of stuff anymore.
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  Speaker 1: And the reason that we don't have that sort of
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  Speaker 1: playground whipment anymore is because people are worried that the risks. Well,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I think counsels are worried that somebody's going to get
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  Speaker 1: sued because an arm will be broken, or a leg
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  Speaker 1: will be broken, or somebody's going to get knocked unconscious
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  Speaker 1: because a piece of steel hits them as this merry
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  Speaker 1: go round spins around really fast. But here's the thing,
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  Speaker 1: didn't really happen that much. Kids figured it out.
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  Speaker 2: I remember a couple of kids breaking their arms on
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  Speaker 2: the monkey bars when I was growing up. But when
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  Speaker 2: you look at the number of children that went through
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  Speaker 2: the school.
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  Speaker 1: Or the hours of play on those monkey bars.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly, it was such a minute minority. It wasn't just
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  Speaker 2: a minority, it was tiny.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, unplanned. Question, how serious is it when your child
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  Speaker 1: breaks an arm? Like, is it that big of a deal?
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  Speaker 2: It's not.
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  Speaker 1: No, it's a story for the rest of your life. Like,
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  Speaker 1: we really do worry about this stuff, and I'm not
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  Speaker 1: sure that we're worried about the right kind of thing.
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  Speaker 1: I want to talk about this idea of risky play.
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  Speaker 1: Play that is risky is play that involves heights, that
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  Speaker 1: involves speed, the potential for impact, play that involves independence
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  Speaker 1: and just for find I'm going to throw and play
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  Speaker 1: that involves tools. And the central point that I want
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  Speaker 1: to make here is that when we grew up, it
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  Speaker 1: wasn't called risky play.
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  Speaker 2: It was just played.
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  Speaker 1: It's exactly what it was. We've sanitized play. We've sanitized
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  Speaker 1: the life, the learning, and the opportunity out of play.
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  Speaker 2: When I went to preschool, so I was four years old,
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  Speaker 2: and I still have vivid memories of the workbench. It
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: was supplied with all the clamps that we needed the nails,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: the hammers, and it was all there, so I could
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  Speaker 2: hammer all the different recyclable items onto a piece of
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  Speaker 2: wood and then take it home and show my mom
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  Speaker 2: and dad proudly what I had made.
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  Speaker 1: Parents are struggling so much with the idea of risky
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  Speaker 1: play that the Canadian Pediatric Society has put a list
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  Speaker 1: together of how we can teach parents to do risky
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  Speaker 1: play at home. Wow, and I know there's a wow
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: factor there, but I also, based on the conversations that
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I'm having in various halls and teaching rooms and conferences
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: around the country, I want to go through this list
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  Speaker 1: with you. We have limited time for it, so I
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  Speaker 1: am going to go quickly, but feel free to interject
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  Speaker 1: wherever you want. They've highlighted how you can do risky
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  Speaker 1: play at home.
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  Speaker 2: But here's the struggle though. There's no risky play anywhere allowed.
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  Speaker 1: That's why so is where it's got to happen.
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  Speaker 2: So parents follow suit, right.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, but with the very best of intentions. We
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  Speaker 1: just don't want our kids to get hurt. It's horrible
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: when you can get hurt, it really is. We had
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: a daughter who fell off It wasn't even a monkey bar,
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  Speaker 1: but it was that kind of thing and she broke
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: her arm. We didn't realize for a few hours.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a few hours, okay, maybe half an hour.
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  Speaker 1: And you guess what, She's got a great story about
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  Speaker 1: how she fell off while were down at the Vella
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  Speaker 1: Drome show.
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  Speaker 2: By the time I saw her ten minutes later, because
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  Speaker 2: I'd sent her to the car, her arm was completely.
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  Speaker 1: Bowed right right, it was broken. It was ugly. Here's
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  Speaker 1: how you encourage risky play at home. Ideally some of
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  Speaker 1: the kids don't break a leg or break an arm,
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  Speaker 1: but some of they might, and that's where the fun is.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Playing at height. The Canadian Pediatric Society says that means
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  Speaker 1: that you give your children opportunities to climb and jump
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  Speaker 1: and balance at height. A note there's no suggestion that
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  Speaker 1: there needs to be soft fall or a rubber mat
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  Speaker 1: underneath them.
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  Speaker 2: It's interesting again. I just had another visual. One of
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  Speaker 2: the play equipment options at my school when I was
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  Speaker 2: in grade one and two was this balancing beam. But
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  Speaker 2: it wasn't a balancing being close to the ground like.
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  Speaker 2: It was a full probably a meter and a half
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  Speaker 2: off the ground like when I fell. I couldn't like
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  Speaker 2: I didn't reach the height of the balancing beam.
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  Speaker 1: I was doing that when I was a kid. Once
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  Speaker 1: my dad said, look, it just didn't have fun. But
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  Speaker 1: if you fall and break both your legs, don't come
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  Speaker 1: running to me. Playing at speed that involves maybe riding
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  Speaker 1: a bike at high speed, or sliding or running. We
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  Speaker 1: used to do cardboard box sliding down steep hills with
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the kids. We'd get like a refrigerated box, sit on
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  Speaker 1: the box and just slide down this grassy hill. When
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: we were living in Woongong there was a great spot
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  Speaker 1: for it, and we've also as the kids got old
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  Speaker 1: and gone ice blocking so much fun. Sit on a
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  Speaker 1: block of ice that you can buy from wherever you
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  Speaker 1: buy wholesale ice. Sit on the block of ice and
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  Speaker 1: slide down a grassy hill. Play involving tools, supervised activities
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  Speaker 1: involving an axe, saw, knife, hammer, or ropes. I mean camping.
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  Speaker 1: That's why kids love camping. Here's the next one that
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  Speaker 1: they suggest. Play involving potentially dangerous elements, in other words,
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  Speaker 1: playing near fire or water. I remember being on a
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: hike with the kids once and we found a waterfall
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  Speaker 1: and just watching the kids scramble over these jagged rocks
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  Speaker 1: near the base of the waterfall and thinking this is
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  Speaker 1: so good. They're climbing over these jagged rocks and this
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  Speaker 1: could go really badly. But here's the critical thing. They
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  Speaker 1: take the risks that are appropriate for them and they
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  Speaker 1: learn how to navigate and judge the risks. Rough and
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  Speaker 1: tuble play so there's wrestling play, fighting, fencing with sticks,
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  Speaker 1: play with risk for disappearing or getting lost. The Canadian
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  Speaker 1: Pediatric Society say that exploring play spaces neighborhoods or woods
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  Speaker 1: without adult supervision or in the case of young children
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  Speaker 1: with limited supervision, like hiding behind the bushes, is good
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  Speaker 1: for them. There are two others, play involving impacts, so
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  Speaker 1: you could crash into something or someone, maybe repeatedly and
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  Speaker 1: of course only for fun. And lastly, vicarious play. Vicarious
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  Speaker 1: play is experiencing the thrill of watching other, often older children,
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  Speaker 1: engaging in risky play. I love the list.
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  Speaker 2: Another visual I went to my cousin's house one day
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  Speaker 2: I probably was about eight, and she had a brand
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  Speaker 2: new set of roller skates. The problem was she lived
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  Speaker 2: at the top of this really steep driveway, so there
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  Speaker 2: was nowhere to roll the skates.
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  Speaker 1: That's brilliant.
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  Speaker 2: I had never used a pair of roller skates and
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  Speaker 2: I spent probably three or four for hours trying to
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  Speaker 2: master roller skating down the driveway.
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  Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: I think my bum must have been so black and
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  Speaker 2: blue by the end of that day.
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  Speaker 1: I need to make a quick note. We do need
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  Speaker 1: to make sure when we consider that list, that what
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  Speaker 1: we're encouraging our children to do is developmentally appropriate. So
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: there's a great line that I picked up from Jonathan
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  Speaker 1: Hates after Babel Substack. He said, you want your kids
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  Speaker 1: to be as safe as necessary, not as safe as possible.
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  Speaker 1: So we do need to still recognize that there are risks.
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  Speaker 1: That's why it's called risky play, and it needs to
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  Speaker 1: be developmentally appropriate. A four year old can't do what
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: a fourteen year old can, and we shouldn't encourage that.
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  Speaker 2: I loved what you said before about the fact that
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: as we allow our children the opportunity to spread their
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  Speaker 2: wings a little bit and engage in risky play, they
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  Speaker 2: will take the risks that are appropriate for them. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: and as adults, it's really important that we don't squash
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: that in a voice and push them to do things
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: beyond their capacity within reason.
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  Speaker 1: One other thing that I need to emphasize, and that's
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  Speaker 1: this pushing point. We've got to allow our children the
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: option of saying no. So this is not about us
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  Speaker 1: making them do risky play. This is about creating an
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  Speaker 1: environment where they have the capacity to take risk. It's
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  Speaker 1: about agency or autonomy. We need to be careful with pressure.
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  Speaker 1: We didn't have adults pushing us to be risky when
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: we were kids. We just went and played case in point.
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  Speaker 1: And I think I've shared this story before. Last Christmas,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: we spent some time with my parents on the New
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: South walest Central Coast. My parents have a boat and
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: they have a donut that you can tie to, not
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: for eating, a donut that you can lay on and
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: lay behind the boat and zoom around. And our youngest Emily,
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  Speaker 1: who at the time was nine, was terrified this was
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  Speaker 1: risky for her. She's going to put a life jacket on,
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  Speaker 1: hold on to the donut, and then get whipped around
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  Speaker 1: the water and then.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Fall into jellyfish infested water.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: There are millions of big jellyfish in the water. And
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: so we put her on the donut and said, promise,
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  Speaker 1: we're not going to knock you off. We just want
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  Speaker 1: you to get used to it. She was happy to
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: do that if she had a sister on either side
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  Speaker 1: of her, and the donut was big enough for the
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: three of them to lay there. And after about thirty
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: seconds she was like, I like it. And then she
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: started to give us directions faster, faster. She wanted the speed,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: she wanted the impact, she wanted the thrill, she wanted
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the risk. She just needed to acclimatize to it. Now.
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  Speaker 1: She did not fall off. We made sure that while
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: we gave her a lot of fun, we kept it
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: just to a level where she could barely hang on.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: But she hung on. The critical thing here is that
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: we are now going to go back there next year
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: because she's dying. Every time she gets the chance Poppy
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: wink and we go on the boat again. She's dying
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  Speaker 1: to get on there. She still doesn't want to fall off,
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  Speaker 1: but as she gets bigger, as she has more experience
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  Speaker 1: with it, she will continue to push those boundaries until
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: she's delighted to fall off and hopefully there won't be
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: any jelly fish in the water.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: So you've got five tips for parents who are struggling
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  Speaker 2: to engage in risky play.
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  Speaker 1: Let me dive into these five things right before I do.
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  Speaker 1: Research evidence shows some people are listening to this saying yet,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: but I've got an anxious child. I can't do this
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: for them. Risky play, according to recent research, helps children
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: overcome anxiety disorders and the cognitive distortions that go along
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: with them.
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  Speaker 2: Anyone who's done something hard knows the thrill that comes
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: from having achieved it, like you get to the other
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  Speaker 2: side and you're just.
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  Speaker 1: You're pumped, yep, and anxious children they don't get pumped
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: until they've overcome it. So they see something that has
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: some uncertainty, they don't know how to tolerate it. They
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: do tend to interpret ambiguous situations quite negatively, and they
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: underestimate their ability to cope if the situation has some
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: level of uncertainty around it. In risky Play, kids practice
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: dealing with strong, ambiguous emotions. Because thrill and excitement are
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: also interpreted as fear and terror. They learn how to
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  Speaker 1: cope with that. They learn how to deal with situations
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  Speaker 1: that abound with uncertainty, and it shows them that they're
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: resilient and capable of coping when things go wrong. The
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: research shows that children with more opportunities for risky play
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: have lower internalizing symptoms that you would consider characteristic of
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: anxiety disorders. Just had to say that. So let's dive
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: into what we can do to encourage our kids to
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: be playing in ways that are good for them, that is,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: that are risky see above. Number one, say yes, like
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: don't be the parent says, oh no, you can't do that.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Just say yes. Number two, be outdoors because outdoors lends
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: itself to risky play much more than being indoors on
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: carpet staring at a TV. Number three. Encourage sports and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: rough and tumble play and time near water. Obviously, safety
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: does need to be a factor, but look for opportunities
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: to be outside and move your bod and number four
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: get rist screens. Number five, get out of the way.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Just get out of the way. Stop controlling. I don't
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: want to minimize the significance of breaking an arm, but
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: breaking arms are okay. It's of course it's painful. Of
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: course there's stress associated with it, but breaking an arm
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: is okay. The kids can take risks.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: A handful of years ago, our eldest convinced me to
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: jump out of a plane with her Yes, I may
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: have been saying what I thought might be my last
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: prayer that morning before I left to get in that bus,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: and at the end of it, she asked me if
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I was glad I did it, And the reality is
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I wasn't right. I actually wasn't.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting it.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't love the way my body felt
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: in that space. Does that mean that I'm completely risk averse. No,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: There's plenty of things that I'm happy to do that
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: still leave me feeling really really anxious in the moment.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: But I've worked out what my tolerance level is in
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: relation to what I'm willing to put myself through. I'm
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: still willing to do hard things, but there are some
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: things that I just know is not worth the payout.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, And I think that's a really really good point.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, I just think we help our kids
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: to recognize there are some things that are worth pushing
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: through and there are other things that if this is
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: too much for you, that's okay. Yep.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Agency matters. The research is pretty clear when you let
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: your kids take risks, they become more physically developed, they
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: are more emotionally resilient, they develop more social skills, they're
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: better at risk assessment, they're more creative in terms of
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the way they solve problems, their mental health improves, and
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: they have a sense of agency autonomy over their lives.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: It's just so valuable. We really hope that you've enjoyed
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the conversation today. I know we've gone over time. It's
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: such a great topic though, isn't it. The Happy Families
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: podcast is produced by Justin Rwland from Bridge Media. If
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: you'd like more information about making your family happy, we'd
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: love for you to join us at Happy families dot
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: com dot I U check out our product. It's called FELT.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: It's part of the Happy Families membership. FELT stands for
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: fostering emotional learning Together. It's all available at happy families
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  Speaker 1: dot com dot a he