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Garden Like a Giant Pumpkin Grower · Garden Like

• Gardel Like Amy Turrnbull audio: The ugliest. That's not the award Amy was going for. Instead, of the orange pumpkin of her dreams grown from the seed of an award-winningly beautiful pumpkin, she instead had something white that resembled a sourdough loaf down to the scored lines on top. So Amy and her family aptly named the pumpkin Sourdough Loaf. After months of protecting this pumpkin and worrying about water and weather and disease, the Split from too much water. And Amy, much like Dr. Frankenstein in surgery, cut into it on purpose to take the stress off the skin so the split would stop spreading. Sourdough loaf was scarred and wounded and then healed. Through Amy, that pumpkin just kept growing. And she made it all the way to the Skagget Valley wayoff in the Pacific Northwest. One pumpkin is weighed, then another. Then another, there are horror stories from pumpkin wayoffs. A pumpkin splitting on the trip over and being disqualified. A pumpkin getting dropped. But sourdough loaf makes it to the scale. 548 pounds. Heavier than Amy's measurements even predicted. And then she wins an award. People's choice ugliest pumpkin. And looking back, Amy loves that. This is one of two giant pumpkins Amy Turnbull grew and took to weigh-offs this year. Sourdough Loaf and Juggernaut at 800 pounds. And today on Garden Like, we're learning from her all about her growing process, so you can garden like her too. Welcome to Garden Like, the podcast that teaches you to garden like worlds, both real and imagined. I'm your Jack Bee Little Pumpkin, Kelsey Siegelov, and today I am nerding out with Amy Turnbull, a giant pumpkin grower. Absolutely. I'm so excited to be talking to you. We got introduced through a friend of a mutual friend that we know both know. I met Grace through Garden Communicators International. And when I was looking to talk to a giant pumpkin grower, she was like, You have to talk to Amy. And so here we are. You previously served on the board for the Pacific Northwest giant pumpkin growers. You run wayoffs and grow competitively. And what I'm specifically so excited to talk to you about and what's makes you so unique as a giant pumpkin grower is that you grow in a small space or a smaller space compared to giant pumpkin growers. And so I think that it's gonna be really appealing to folks. And also, I would be remiss if I didn't shout out. Dum Dum, the 676-pound giant pumpkin you grew back in 2022. I saw photos online, looked amazing. Just welcome to the show, Amy. Thank you. We name our pumpkins. We love pumpkins. How do you come up with your names for your pumpkins? Well, my kids usually name them. So that's why there is a dum dum. We had just watched a movie, but we get very, very committed and connected to these things. So Thank you for having me. yeah, I grow in Everett, Washington. it's basically a concrete jungle, you know. there's not much gardens. I used to live where there was a ton of front yard gardens. And so I already knew like plant wherever you're wherever you're planted. And so I came across growing giants accidentally, actually. oldest brother, when we were young, grew a giant pumpkin in the backyard. It was like 300 pounds back in like 1996, when I think the world record was only like 900 pounds. So that was a fairly giant pumpkin. And so when we got this house and it had a big yard, it was just one thing after the other, and I was like, might as well grow a giant, and having no idea where it would take me. And I'll just say growing a giant is like the gateway to the best horticultural degree you can ever have. What makes it that gateway? well, one, it's amazing to grow. And it just you learn so much. If you want to grow really large, you have to dive into all the things. You have to dive into the soil, you have to dive into genetics, you have to dive into amendments. And basically, you're just, you can't just like grow it. On the grass if you want, because that's not what it needs. So you're just it's a 101 horticultural degree right up front and teaching yourself and studying things all through the season. and the plant actually is your best teacher. And when you talked about that experience of growing up and the the first giant pumpkin, were you growing pumpkins of the more smaller sizes before then? We grew up many different things. I think I was the one like gardener of the whole family. And actually my dad was a master gardener in South Seattle and he was a pastor of a really small church, but he was green before most people were green, before any other churches were green. He was doing community gardens, harvesting rainwater and all that stuff. So we were always growing a ton of stuff. so most likely like field pumpkins, you know, or just those little little preschool pumpkins. But no matter where I moved, renting until we bought our house, I had the opportunity. I was always growing pumpkins, always growing sunflowers, zucchini, whatever I could during the summer. And so, like, if we got a little backyard that's a hundred square foot, I'm growing something. and so when we got our big backyard, it was just we're gonna grow. And pumpkins are just so fun. So I've never had a problem growing them. Yeah, there's Been a little bit of an issue with, I think you had mentioned little bugs and here and there. but they're fairly easy to grow. So yeah, I found so this is actually only my third year gardening, but I fell head over heels into it. And when I started growing pumpkins, I felt like a magical little garden fairy. I was just seeing the pumpkins grow and The when they start changing color and you're just amazed by the shape and you see the ribbing around the pumpkins, there is something that is so of anything that I grow that I just love watching them take shape. And once they get started, they grow really quickly. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's one of those plans that you could really watch progress over time. Mm-hmm. Earlier, when you were mentioning your father being a master grower. A master gardener. I was thinking that I should specify for folks who don't know what the Master Gardening program is. do you I I can try and explain it, do my best to explain it. It's roughly every every state in the US has a Master Gardener program. Yeah. I'm not one yet. Everyone says I should, but I'm just so busy with gardening. you you go and you study and you take classes and seminars and you have to pass a certificate. so it's basically a horticultural degree. I I believe, but it's so amazing because they are out there volunteering, you know, feet on the ground with other people that want to garden, answer all those really hard questions that it doesn't matter actually how long you've gardened, you're always learning. There's always something new. And so it's great to use the Master Gardeners as a resource. I have another giant pumpkin grower who is a master gardener and it is a lot. It is like her the knowledge she has is so great. Yeah. Absolutely. It's the you're taking the classes, they do a lot of volunteer work as well. it's so for those who are listening, if you've ever wanted to pursue a Master Gardener program, check it out if you're interested. Wanna give a plug to those programs as well. Yes. But to take it back to the pumpkins, pumpkins, something that I really loved when you described yourself when we were chatting via email is that you said you're a bona fide pumpkin geek. And I all the way, and I always say, I'm for nerds who garden and gardeners who nerd. I'm a pumpkin nerd. I am so here for geeking out about this. Yeah. So when you're talking about what makes you a pumpkin geek, besides the experience of growing that we've already touched on, what is it about pumpkins that you geek out about? everything. from pollinating. You know, just learning how my boys, they get out there and they pollinate the flowers now themselves. And, you know, we got the giants in the front yard and my backyard is small and it's packed full. And we grow up vertically because I want I want to trial and grow everything. but when you get that little pumpkin on the vine and you just see it grow and grow and grow. And well, when it's a giant, it like it's just phenomenal. It you it's hard. Everyone that sees it is just like. Wow. And I'm I found that gardening with giants is is really just a bring so many people in to be interested into gardening. Maybe they're not, you know, interested in gardening in general, but they want to grow something big and I'm here for it, you know, whether or not you're a bona fide gardener, like if you want to grow a giant, because just touching it, you pet it, I don't know how to explain it. I grow. Over 30 different varieties right now. Wow. And I'm walking through my garden. And this is all like vertical, right? I'm walking through my garden. I'm just like, where'd you come from? You know, I saw your video when on Instagram and you're you're talking about the seeds and the different varieties you grow. And I'm like, I yes, that's me entirely. Like the blues, the whites, the pinks, all the ones. I look at a pumpkin, I also am like, you're edible. I'm gonna eat you. You're gonna be delicious. I'm gonna cure you and store you, and you'll sweeten up through winter. And then we're gonna eat some of these in March, and some will be eaten in November. And so I look at a pumpkin, not just wow, it's growing like a giant pumpkin vine can grow a foot or more a day in its max growing season. Wow. It's wild. you're like, how how how did I How did it go from here to there? You know, and if you're growing in a small space, you get a little nervous, you know, like how soon is it going to be maxed out? but everything about growing pumps is just fun. It's whimsical. I have a gourd plant and it's climbing up over my raspberries, and there's 30 little gourds on this plant. my gosh. You look at it, and my kids, my boys' eyes just light up and it's like taking a kid to the candy shop. And so I think it's just really magical. It's really whimsical growing pumpkins. And on top of that, we get to eat them. Yeah, I completely agree. I think it's the the different shapes, the different colors, the way that they grow in, it does feel so whimsical. It feels very magical. And for someone like yourself who has such a passion of all these different types of pumpkins, and you're looking at your 30 varieties. I know 30 sounds like a lot. How did you narrow it down to those 30 this year? So hard, I probably had over 60 to begin with. Right. actually, that's a really good question. So when I'm looking at the different types of pumpkins, I want to know: is it a vining, a semi-vining, or a bush plant or semi-bush? because that's gonna tell me the character of how it grows. Now, if you're in a small space and you're not gonna grow up, definitely look for varieties that are semi-bush or bush plants, meaning They'll get maybe five by five or three by three. some of those little Casparita white ones, you know, they're just, they're just a tiny footprint. So they're so fun to grow. but I do a lot of vertical and the bush ones and the semi-bush ones just don't grow and climb as much. and so it in this setting, I am growing vertically. So I want vining or semi-vining. and then secondly, I'm in the Pacific Northwest. So we don't have a lot of other diseases, but we do have pottery mildew. And so I'm going to look at the varieties and say, are you have some powdery mildew resistance? do you have some disease resistance? So that's also coming into into play. But ultimately, for my backyard, I want it to be edible. so I'm looking at, I know a lot of pumpkins, like people think field pumpkin or like the Field trip pumpkin that the kids go out and it's just small. those have been bred to have strong handles, deep orange color, deep ribs, but the flavor isn't there. You know, everyone wants those, but I'm not gonna eat them. So I'm looking for ones that are gonna feed my family. And, you know, every, every October we do blind taste tests. And I'm so excited because this year I am going to be carving up my giant pumpkin and that'll join us in our blind taste test. Taste test because so many people are like, they taste like water or whatnot. I'm like, I have to, I have to find out for myself because it's just a science experiment, right? Like people say, you know, compost tea isn't great, or this doesn't actually work scientifically proven. I'm like, I gotta run my own experiment. Yeah. Absolutely. I will grow varieties that I know that we love, like the porcelain doll, the jardales. you literally will cut up a jar dale. And you open it up and you smell it and it smells like cantaloupe. It's so sweet. I go running to my kids and I'm like, smell this. And it's it's wild because before I had my last, I have three boys. Before I had my last one, I actually don't like pumpkin pie. And that was I didn't care for pumpkin spice, or I'd have it obligatory, you're like, here we go. It's a slice when there's tons of whipped cream and caramel sauce, you know. but I started making it for my son for baby food because I think there's a lot of recalls on baby food at the time, like contamination. I was like, might as well try it. It's not my taste buds, it's the baby. He doesn't know, you know, right should taste like. And then I just started using it in my smoothies, and it was just it was just wild of how delicious the right pumpkins can be. And so really that's what I'm looking at when I'm, you know, picking out pumpkins from my backyard. But for growing giants, do you mind if I segue to that? Please do. Okay. So for growing giants is a whole different thing. you're looking for genetics. So I have a little show and tell. Ooh, I'm excited. Okay. So these are pumpkin seeds, a little, a little different ones. this is a giant, an Atlantic giant. Those are the ones that grow. And this is a just a field pumpkin. You know, field pumpkins actually, the ones this came from, can get up to 80 pounds. So That's a good size field pumpkin. okay. And then this is a mini pumpkin seed. I don't know. But you it's all about genetics. A lot of people, when they just start growing giant pumpkins or getting their seed from like the feed store or online in a generic sort of way, that's fine. Do that, grow it out, see how you do. But for me, because I want to grow exactly like the genetics, do I want a white? Pumpkin? Do I want an orange? Do you want a green? how heavy was it? And that's where you go to like seed auctions. some sellers do it themselves. They're growing giant pumpkins literally costs a lot of money. Yeah. Like legit if you're gonna win. So but then you know, we have the clubs all over the US and we Donate our seeds when we're done for the season and then the club gives and sends them out to their club members. So cool. Where where are you located? I'm in Massachusetts. Okay. There are some great. Have you been to a giant pumpkin way off? No, I need to. They're happening right now. I'm going to one tomorrow. And well, mine's in the Pacific Northwest. I'll send you a link if you want to check it out. Yes, please. but you you can show up even to the wayoffs and the growers, they are the kindest community out there. They will They'll give you seeds, they'll hook you up, they'll answer questions. So, but it's all about genetics too, when it comes to Atlantic giants. For those listening at home, the giant pumpkin seeds are way bigger than what you're going through the different sizes of seeds, they're absolutely massive in comparison. And then when you're talking about the genetics you're looking for, so earlier when you were talking about the smaller pumpkins that you're growing at home, you're thinking of things like Powdery mildew and disease resistance. When you're looking at the genetics of these large pumpkins, these giant pumpkins, are those in play? How what kind of things do you think about? Yeah. No, unfortunately, because they've been bred for for big size. They are so prone to so many diseases. Yeah. It just is the way it is. so you're always going to encounter powdery mildew. you're always gonna have some like trouble with bugs, and probably not just one, probably two. and that's where I think I differ in my giant pumpkin growing. when I am in small space, most most growers easily get 1,000 to 2,000 square foot. I would say 1500 is probably pretty average. I'm growing in less than 500. the previous year when I grew dum dumb, he was six something. He was in a hundred, like a hundred square feet. Wow. Hundred square feet. So if you think about in terms of size and and space, that was That was pretty good. And that was like, I think my third year really trying. It was my first year that I did a soil test. So when it comes to to growing giants, you have to have sort of a a plan in place. you're always going to be spraying for disease on a regular basis before it happens. I prefer organics. and so I do a lot of biofungicide, biofertilizers, feeding the soil. a lot of earthworms in there covering the soil. I don't believe in keeping my soil barren. And so once I pull plants out in the fall, I'm already starting on next year's growing season with getting the cover crop in there. and then pulling that soil test and amending it. And all of that to say is if you have a healthy soil, you probably have less chance of having really bad. Bad powdery mildew, or you know, there's other things like Frusarium wilt and Pithorium, all this stuff. so it it does start in the soil. That's your foundation. And I think that was a hiccup for me in the beginning because a soil test to a lot of people sound really intimidating, right? Like, what do I do? There's a certain way to do a soil test. And who do I send it to? And then once you get the results, how do I interpret it? Because that's when you become kind of like a scientist. you get the pH balance of your soil, you get the macronutrients, and you get the micronutrients. And then from there, you have to say, Okay, I'm gonna do this organically. How am I gonna do it? And it has to be in the right balance because if some gets too high, then the plant won't be able to pull the right nutrients out. It's so identical to like our gut and our own personal health. And so I've been on my own journey of like getting healthy and recovering from some things. And I feel like the platform is like I learned something here for the giant pumpkin. I'm like, okay. The gut, the gut health. It's the same with the soil health. And Getting the right balance, the right microbes, the right just everything. I am a giant pumpkin. Yeah. I am a yes, exactly. So yes, there are a lot of diseases. And I will say that you have to stay ahead of it. So having just a very simple like plan of action, like, okay, every Saturday evening I'm gonna spray. I say evenings because in my weather and my climate. I still get bees in the morning and I don't care how organic it is, I I love the bees. I plant I so many things for the bees. They are never without food, but they absolutely love pumpkin flowers. and so you know, I'm going to be spraying. I have potassium bicarbonate. It changes the pH balance of the leaf so that powdery mildew can't do it. But the biggest challenge with pumpkin leaves, if I can show this to you, yeah. Isn't this wild? my gosh. It looks like a giant pom frond for fanning someone. It looks like we should be getting fanned with that giant leave and eating grapes. Okay. So you can see how big this stalk is. This is the genetics we're talking about, right? This is like the size of some of my friends' arms, not my arm, but the vines outside are bigger than my arm. It's wild. But you when you're spraying. You have to get underneath the leaf too. I'm going to show you. Look at those little those. I have black aphids on my giant pumpkin. there's like three or four different types of aphids, but I'm not spraying this time of year because the way off is just around the corner and they're not going to take down my plant. and so when you're spraying, you have to be able to spray on top of the leaf and under the leaf. powdery mildew lives on the vine, powdery mildew lives underneath. and you want to be preventative. So same with with pests and everything like that. I actually have found that my favorite way to learn about growing giant pumpkins is through the cannabis industry and greenhouse growers because they grow to eat. And I obviously I want to grow organically, but they're like on the cutting edge of of technology and new things. And so one thing I've been really turned on to is called hygro punch. And it's a biofertilizer and a biofungicide and pest control. So, like a lot of, I think, thyme oil, oregano, things like that. and then another one that I have used to help with powdery mildew is this I don't have the container with me, but it's called armor. And it's basically it's helping your plant raise the bricks level. And they say it's, you know, there's a lot of There's a lot of science that goes back and forth depending what side of the line you're on in in research. But there's one amazing, highly intelligent researcher, Hebrew Hall, and he is saying, get your bricks above at least an eight, and you won't have bug problems. What's a bricks? What's a bricks? Bricks is like the sugar, the sweetness. So when you think of maple syrup, it has a bricks level tasty level. how sweet it is. If you think of strawberries, if people are breeding strawberries, you can take the juice of it and it'll measure how sweet it is. and so I can come and take a test of the sampling of of the juice that comes out of here, and I can say, I did it actually this year and I had a three. And I'm like, I'm a great giant pumpkin grower. So what is it on a scale of? like this is zero to 20, but you want it to be above at least a nine. Okay. And they say that if you do that, you will not, the bugs won't eat it. It'll be more resistant to the to the bugs and not taste it. Now the science goes back and forth on it. So I am still experimenting, but I was spraying armor on it, which is full of natural ingredients and it's so so smells so great with molasses, unsulfured molasses. and so those are kind of the things that I take as an approach as a preventative. Is ongoing maintenance to keep the plant healthy. And there's also only so much you can do. Like you're do you grow outside or do you grow in a greenhouse at all? I'm entirely outside. Okay. So you are subject to your weather. yeah, I am. If your weather decides I'm going to dump three inches in, you know, a day, and I didn't know about this, your plant may start rotting and will get disease. From all of that rain, I had no idea. When I pulled out my leaves last year before harvesting my giant pumpkin, that is such a good learning opportunity. So when you're in your garden pulling out your vines in October, November, whenever you do it, pull up your vines and see are they soft and rotten or are they strong and well rooted? And that'll give you an idea of how healthy your plant is and maybe what approach you want to do next spring when you're planting. So I found that mine was rotten. And I'm like, how is it rotten? I, you know, I was doing things right. Well, I was overwatering. I was so afraid because everyone's like, giant pumpkins need so much water. I didn't have a soil meter to t moisture meter to to gauge how wet it was. I just had things on auto water. because as a mama kids, it it like if you have to remember one more thing, you're most likely to fail. Absolutely. So I actually overwatered and I probably had a Fusarium on it. and so yeah, it's just so many different ways to go with this, but isn't this wild? I just the leaf is enormous. I you yeah. It you look like you're in a honey ice runk, the kids, and that you're a tiny fairy with with a leaf. And if you compare it to a normal size leaf on a pumpkin, it's probably like I have, you know, all of them in the backyard. They're like this big, right? So people are walking by in my neighborhood because I gardened in my front yard. And all they're like is, what are you growing? And I'm like, come on over. Come on and see. so last summer there's a a family coming by and I recognize the parents, they didn't speak the same first language as I did, English. They were from Nepal. But they came with their their adult children and they're like, What are you growing? My dad wants to know. And I'm like, I'm growing a giant pumpkin. And they gotta come and see the giant pumpkin. And you know, not all the leaves are this. Sometimes they're beat up and they're like, it's just kind of messy. And we cover our giant pumpkins to protect them from the sun, just like our skin needs protection. Giant pumpkins and their genetics grow so fast, you want to keep their skin soft or else they pop. which that's happened to me. no. Yeah, yeah. but anyway, so I showed them the giant pumpkin and their eyes just like lit up and they've never seen anything like it before. And then I took them in my backyard because I have a lawn gourd growing in my backyard vertically. It's up 16 feet high plus everything else. And they were almost in tears. So it's just wild growing these things. They're huge. People, people and this is I say this is a gateway to gardening because people are like, I want to grow something that massive. Yeah. My my say is grow it. Do it. You know, plant it. So let's say I am that person who's like, my gosh, I really want to grow a giant pumpkin, but I don't know. That sounds like a lot of work with the soil and the covering and and the diseases and being prepared. What would you say to that beginner? Just try it and then you'll get addicted. Now, if you are living in a small space, it actually might be kind of easier because you don't have to work as long through the season. because they're so for me in my timing, I start my giant pumpkin seeds like the first, second week in April inside in that perfect little dome setting, the right temperature, the right, right moisture, with little secret ingredients in the potting soil. And then I'm planting outside with soil cables and a hoop house. And that can sound like a lot to people, but if you have those simple things set up, I say simple. yeah, it's like you know, a half day of work doing it doesn't have to be a complicated hoop house. It you could PVC that you just bend and cover with painters, plastic, whatever. that's going to extend your season, but you definitely don't have to go that much. I think the first year I started season May and they were out in the soil because our soil does not warm up until typically June. So giant pumpkin growers they cheat the system, they create their own microenvironments because pumpkins, same with. sunflowers, all those diva summer vegetables where I am, they don't like our mild climate. I think I was looking at our average temperature and comparing it to some of the giant pumpkin growers in Minnesota. I'm like, we're maybe 69, 72. We'll get a couple of hot days. and their our average temperature for the low is like around 52. And the people that are growing the two to three thousand, either they're in a greenhouse. Or they're getting like 90 degree days, 60 to 70 degree nights. but you know, I I'm okay with out growing a world record because the marvel and the wow factor and the education factor and the conversations I get to have with people is is so fulfilling. It's just so entirely amazing. And my kids, they're now they I like to garden. I want them to be gardeners. They don't really care much about, you know. picking this or doing that or weeding. But if they're growing a giant, they're all in. and so, you know, so for a new bee, just get the seed. If you can get new soil, a new like three-way mix, because that at least will give you a good start rather than amending your soil. You can do in a large space, but let's just say you're a city grower, you have a hundred square feet, just get like a three-way mix with sand. So that's good drainage. Compost and this the dirt. and then in the planting hole, you're going to do some like granular. I like organic fertilizers. and so that's all I did the first year. And I got like a 330-pound pumpkin. Wow. So, you know, I I think like just even growing one the first year is kind of so amazing. I don't know that I would have kept growing pumpkins if it wasn't for my boys just. Going all out for it, you know, they get attached to it, they love it, they're so proud of it. It's like their own little pet, you know. and so for me, just at least try it one year and see if you like it or not. there are so many resources out there, and I'm happy to give a list of the you can go in 10,000 different directions with with learning about giants, but I'm happy happy to give a list of like this is where you want to go. Join a Facebook group for backyard giant pumpkin growers. That's what I did. join your local club. Go to a way off and bring your 330-pound pumpkin because you're going to win a prize, most likely. Cause sure the top winners are around, depends what part of the the nation you are. But here where I'm at, like the top winners in the first way off, are usually around 15 to 1800. And You could easily get $50. You know, like how fun is that? And a ribbon. But with growing a giant, there's also heartache. so pollinating your giant pumpkin female flowers is really, really important. So, in in the world of giant pumpkin growing, we want to know our crosses. We want to know the genetics. say you're only growing one plant, that's fine. You can still pollinate with the same plant. A lot of people cross. Pollinate. so this here is a giant pumpkin flower that I picked this morning. and then this is the inside of one. And so you're gonna, you really the night before these open, you're gonna be in your plant usually every day. If you're a gardener, you're at least walking out, enjoying, you know, just the sights and that I like to look at the bees and the butterflies. And it's to me, it's just the most fascinating thing in life right now. And you're gonna close up the flower the night before so that it doesn't open and the bees get to it. And then when it they're kind of like women. I'm sorry to say this. They're really moody. They want to be pollinated in the morning. And it has to be the right temperature. Interesting. It has yes. And it has to have enough pollen from the male flowers. So I think my first year I only used two. male flowers. This last year I was like, I'm doing it. I'm doing it all in. I had like 14 male flowers I had collected over a period of three days. So you don't have to do that. You can leave it up to the bees. But if you're gonna leave it up to the bees, you need to know that you have male flowers on the plant that are gonna open the same day. and I think that's where a lot of people just fail. And I don't want people to fail, I want them to grow their giant, is you do want to hand pollinate it, just it just ups your chance of having a good solid fruit. And unfortunately, it's kind of like trimester with with babies, but like they have up until day 20 is about when they can abort. You know, last year I had the best timing. I was on board to have a great season. I planted ahead and it was 50 degrees and raining the morning. I had to pollinate. There's just nothing I could do. It was too cold, you know, like they're they're really sensitive little things. So the right timing and pollinating, I think is really key. And then after that, you know, we we train a giant pumpkin. every space is unique, but you want to grow hopefully a female on the main vine because it's going to give you the biggest fruit. and then we kind of we train the side vines like a Christmas tree at the beginning. Sometimes that later on it kind of goes around. But that will guarantee you the biggest fruit if you can do a main vine female. and with that being said, you probably already know this, but just for everyone, the male flowers come first. So I see a lot of times people are saying, I have no female flowers. What am I doing? The number one question I get is people who are like, Why am I only gonna getting male flowers? Like, just wait, just wait for it. Yeah, about 10 days is kind of the number that I, you know. That I've always heard and I've said, and that seems to be about right, which is it's great. It helps you kind of learn the flowering and you know, just observing so. So you you started off, you made sure your soil was great, you've got your seed, which for you you've been talking about Atlantic Giants. Yes. Is there any more specificity around what to grow for or like how to look for? A good pumpkin seed. Yeah. Yeah. So this is where, again, I'm gonna kind of geek out, but like in a giant pumpkin wayoff, they have different categories for giants. So they have ones for green squash, which also get up to can get up to 2,000 pounds. And they have white pumpkins. And then this one is kind of like a mix of a white and orange. so you can also You can see it says their last name, and this is how they label it. The based on the the way off weight and the last name. And then this is the year. So for me, I see this pumpkin, but also underneath that, this is a pollinator of the that pumpkin. So I go and I look up, it's all in line. You can say 2006 wolf, and you can see what did that pumpkin look like. do I want, do I want because you're gonna the genetics are there, right? Even though this may not be white, this may be white. So that's actually a mistake I made. I was so excited when I got my seed. I this year I purchased it. You know, a lot of when we say purchase, I purchase through the club auctions because that funds the clubs. There's not a lot of people in our local club because we're in the urban area and the farmland is far distant. there are some big land growers in the club too, but you know, so buy through the club and you can look up, what did that? Pumpkin, what was it pollinated with? What was the mother plant? What was the father plant? So I bought my seed and it was a Howard Dill award-winning pumpkin from a really good in my in my research, like grower. He's a Werner, he was a great grower, been around for 20 years, winning multiple contests. I'm like, okay, this pumpkin is great. I won the Howard Dill. I did not look up the father pollinator, and it was from a white pumpkin. And so here I am. I only grow one plant, you know, and I'm like, I want the Howard Dill, even if it's not the biggest, I'll get the prettiest. And it's white. And I'm like, my gosh. Okay. So at first I was a little brokenhearted, but honestly, there's really no ugly pumpkin. I mean, maybe it's misshapen or whatnot, but to me, I love all pumpkins. What color were you expecting? A beautiful bright orange. Like the color, the color on your shirt. I mean, gorgeous. It was just gorgeous, you know. it's okay. that you know, that's a learning curve. We learn something new every year. That's just how it is. But yeah, so when you're looking for genetics on seeds, I would try to get either one with a Howard Dill if you want to grow really beautiful pumpkin that has Howard Dill and it's cross with another orange. But with that being said, genetics can be wild. Let's say four seasons ago it had white in its roots, you may still get a white pumpkin. So it is, you know, it's just like you just never really know. And then for folks who don't know, what's a garden club? Okay. So we have the the overall giant pumpkin commonwealth. And that is the the rules and the resources to get these way off certified. So everyone has standard rules to abide by. a huge rule book. And under that are local clubs that are just, you know. Hey, we all want to grow a giant pumpkin. Let's start a club to get a certified way off and win these national awards in addition to the club awards. you have to be registered as a club and abide by their rules. The one that I have locally is a Pacific Northwest Giant Pumpkin Growers Club. And I just joined it was $30. I mean, at first I'm like, another 30, another 30. It's I have the best friends now through this group and going to the wayoffs for three years, you know. I think because I grow in an urban area, not a lot of people grow. I feel so isolated in what I do at the beginning. There are some growers in the Midwest. I mean, it's it's a culture out there. Their next door neighbors are there, you know, helping them get started and set them up for success and guide them along the way, which that's great. That's what they get. But mine is different. So I felt like kind of like a lone wolf. And how how do I learn and how do I ask all these questions? without another growing there's just something to be said about seeing it with your own eyes. So since joining this club, I have people that are friends and I don't feel alone anymore in this in this urban area. And and on top of that, we share, we give, and it's just they're now like, hey, we're gonna go harvest potatoes. Do you want to come up to a farm and harvest? I'm like, yeah, we're all there. and so I feel like the community that has come through this has been remarkable. The friendships are something I wouldn't have had at that scale and that level. And that also feeds into some of the best growth that you can have as a giant pumpkin grower is to have a mentor or a group of people that you're connected to that you can ask the stupid questions that you're too afraid to ask online. there's a lot of people that you can resource online through a giant pumpkin growing groups. And I'll give you the links of the two that I use. And people are so passionate about other people growing. It's like almost a part-time job for them answering these basic questions and they love it. So, like the community has just been awesome. And so I would say, like, look up your club, at least go to a way off and see and talk to them and see what they're like. And like I said, some people grow organically, some people don't, but we're all like in it together. And at the way off that I'm going to tomorrow. I will see them getting loaded off these trucks. I'm almost crying because the mass, the mass of pumpkins and knowing how many hours and dollars, to be honest, some of these giants, you know, they put into it, it's unreal. And like I compare growing giant pumpkins to climbing Mount Everest. You know, when you are getting ready for a summit, you're training every day, you're reading, you're getting your equipment right. And then you, let's just say Mount Everest, you have to have a guide, right? So that's your local club or a mentor. and then you get up to the mountain and you're ready, you're ready to plant your seed and you're going up the summit. And that is the hardest, hardest part. Physically, as a grower, I am out in the soil sometimes four to six hours a day. I mean, I'm not just like, I'm not just like using a hoe. I am my nails are done with, you know, I am covered. But it's fabulous. Like it's fun. It's like, cause we are burying our vines, right? Because at every single internode of that pumpkin, there are a possibility of two roots to develop. What's an internode? Intranode is do you s do you know where those I'll be right back. Show and tell. I love your props. So at every every time that there's a vine, there's a leaf. There is Some people call this a loop de loop. It's a tendril. Like this is what I look for when I'm doing vertical plants. I use that to attach to. sometimes these can actually be a kickstand for giant pumpkins because they're they could be like six inches long. Wow. And you want to lay the vines flat. But right here, I'll show that. And right here, if you were to cover that within like the first three days of it growing, you're gonna get a massive root system. And so the more roots you have, the bigger. And stronger the plant, better to fight diseases, better to fight issues that you may encounter, but also more to feed the plant. So that's why in giant pumpkin growing, if you have more square footage, you're getting more roots, you're gonna have a bigger pumpkin, usually, you know. so that that's a that is the the internode. But yeah, so we're out there, we're laying down our vines. Cause they want when they're in their like their early gross phase. I'm thinking like June for me. and they're growing a foot a day, sometimes even two. if you don't, I use chopsticks, some people use longer sticks. If you don't try to lay those vines down, they will literally snap off. How are you using the chopsticks to lay it down? So I do one like cross this way and the other one this way. Okay. So really you're making an X to pin them into the ground. An X. Yep. And the thing with giant pumpkins, and this is where it's really hard to grow if you can only be out there at night or in the morning. it's not impossible. You just have to think, create a a new solution, is that they are the most pliable in the heat of the day. And so if I were to go do this at night, I would snap vines. I snap vines all the time just because, you know, I was like, I I just moved it too hard. You know, at some point, my my plant has, let's say 22 side vines and they're all growing. they're all growing at least a foot a day. That's a lot of work at that point in the season. So that's where it's like the summit for for climbing Mount Everish. Like you're putting in that work. I'll even kind of geek out, but when I bury vines, I also have like my own little vine berry recipe. and so, you know, I'm putting something called my coruset in it. I'm putting ASOS in it. Azos back, I can't remember the full name. I'm putting bone meal in it. bone meal helps with strong cell walls. And that's one of the things with giant pumpkins. If you don't want them to split, you really want good strong cell walls. because they grow so fast, they just pop. So we're climbing Mount Everest and you get your pumpkin pollinated and set. Let's say it's on the main vine or where whatever. You're like, this is great. You know, it's just a little bit of maintenance here and there. And then people go on vacation. no. And then they come back and their pumpkin is split. So just like on climbing Mount Everest, a lot of people pass away or struggle on the descent because all of that hard work to get that pumpkin set. you know, and I I just compare it to climbing because it I'm a I used to do mountain climbing before giant pumpkins. unfortunately, like I can't do both, it's too much time. But yeah, so when you're growing a giant pumpkin, it's a lot of work. more work. Beginning of the season. So we're talking April, May, June, July. you're starting to lighten off. That's more preventative sprays for bugs and and diseases and stuff like that, and making sure the water in the fertilizer is is key to its growth phase. and then people are like, let's go on vacation in August. And I know some like the best growers, and they go on some vacation and you know, they come back and it's split. And they were set. Everything was right. It's just and of course, just like with anything, anything you're growing, you are subject to the environment. So if a rainstorm happens or wind storm happens, hail storms, you know, depending what part of the country you're on, you know, things happen. So at that point too, it's like it's really wild because you can only control so much. And you're it it's almost like a gamble, right? So and again, just like climbing Mount Everest, like you're climbing and a storm rolls in. You have no control. You have to survive it. And that's just the same analogy. Like I feel like I'm working is like this is my summit. My summit is to get that that pumpkin set and pollinated. And then it's just kind of suit, you know, soaring till you get to the way off. yeah. When you talked about as part of the summit. The water and fertilizer for the different stages of growth, the pumpkins in. Can you talk more to that? Yeah, I'm so excited you you asked about that. So there are three main phases for growing any plant that is going to be fruiting. but in this terms, let's talk pumpkins. So giant pumpkins, they are heavy nitrogen feeders. And so most people have to amend their soil with some nitrogen. and so that first season. You know, we took got the NPK fertilizers. I'm gonna be feeding my plant, my giant pumpkin plant, something higher in the nitrogen category, like something around the 12s. I don't want too much nitrogen, but I also, because of my approach to soil amendment, I do a lot of kelp meal, I do a lot of alf organic alfalfa meal in it, blood meal, things like that, so that I know at the beginning of the season, like. the plant is gonna probably get enough nitrogen. But once it's flips to the fruiting stage or the blossom stage, I do, I do change my fertilizer program and I start using something with NPK. So the P is going to be higher. That's the phosphorus. And for example, I had not fertilized any of my backyard for two or three weeks. I have a fertilizer injector, so it's I just have to refill it and I just didn't get to it. Three days ago, I'm like, okay, I still want some more tomatoes. Please get me some more cucumbers. I went and I filled it up with a bloom booster sort of thing. And guess what? I went out yesterday, like 40 flowers all over, you know, like so it did take a few days. But it does, it does feed the plant. So some people are struggling with flowers. get a good fertilizer that I, you know, I do organic, but whatever it is that you can get into. Your plant. So you can foliar feed it. You can feed it through a drip line with an injector, and that kind of gets a little bit more complicated. or you can just do a hose and spare, and that's what I did for a few years, and it's just fine. you know, where you just attach the fertilizer and it just rays it out. So my favorite NPK fertilizer just generally I'm always using through the season is Neptune's harvest fish and seaweed fertilizer. They also have a tomato one that works great. And I could use that, but I buy like a 50 gallon, five-gallon bucket. So then once you get the flowers, then you're going to get to the growth phase of the fruit. So about day 20 is how long it takes for you to know, like, okay, the pollination took everything's good. And I'm going to switch to a fertilizer higher in potassium. and I'm talking like something with a 25 on the end of it. you still want some nitrogen and some phosphorus in it, but you're you're also changing programs again and you're going to be just giving it a consistent feed. And I will also say that I have learned the lesson the hard way. They always say, don't be a moron and put more on. And that's in regards to fertilizer, right? I have been there. I have like, my goodness, I forgot to fertilize. I'm just gonna give it a big old like dose, the full dose. And actually, those doses they say in their package, that's like for once a week. But with giant pumpkins, you want consistent, like gentle doses. So lighten up if you if you can't do it every day, every other day or every three days. lighten it up so that you're not putting too much on. same with water. So come we have such a mild climate. So I'm not sure what Massachusetts is like, but it gets really dry and hot, but not like super hot. But we had a we had a spell of like 90 degrees and it was we did not take a vacation this summer. My boys are like, we're We just rotate our seasons. Okay. I want to be here for the giant. last year our vacation started on the day that I had a giant pumpkin, two of them, to be pollinated last year. It was because of the weather a week before was too cold and it wouldn't take. And I'm literally like, what do I do? Do I like open up the flower and pollinate it too early? no. And I'm like texting my house sitter, the instructions, the you the my little video I made of how to pollinate a flower, which if you're not a gardener, you're like, what? It's like pumpkin, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. but she overslept. She overslept and missed the window. And we're driving through Montana and we're about to go in, no reception. I texted my neighbor and I'm like, and she she's from Taiwan, so like English isn't her first language. But she's a sweeter. She's like a grandma to my boys. I'm like, can you please go take the cups off of my pumpkins? And this is like seven o'clock in the morning, texting her, you know, on a Saturday morning. She pollinated it for me. actually, she went to every single flower. She it was lost in translation. And so then they forgot they left the cup over the pumpkin. no, they didn't take it off after pollinating, so it totally got like. hundred degrees and they didn't take. so like every year I'm learning something. But anyways, so after day 20, I am definitely going to a higher fertilizer and you want to have a steady watering system. yeah, that's what I was gonna say. So this year, took my boys to Mount Rainier. It's about three hours away. We got up at 3 a.m. in the morning. We got home at 7 p.m. There was no way I had time to go out into my patch. and The next morning we were tired. I overslept. Life happens. Again, my pumpkins didn't get water because I had forgotten to turn on the auto timer because I was trying to not overwater just too many things, such as how life is. And three days later, because I was like, I'm gonna put more on. I'm gonna put that fertilizer in. I'm gonna put more water. I'll give it an extra dose. I walked by my second pumpkin. It literally split. I heard it go, pumpkin. And that's no they're growing so fast, right? and that's wild right now. So we had just named that pumpkin Death Star. My boys did, because they're big Star Wars fans. And they named the other one, because I have two on a on a on a plant, which isn't very common, but it's just the way it is. Sometimes you have backups and I call them pressure relief valves. so the Death Star was the pressure relief valve, just in case, you know. Right. and Yeah, so I popped, I popped it. It's not uncommon. I feel like it's how you learn. but it's nice that you when you start early in the season with planting, you get a little buffer that you can still grow a three, four hundred, five hundred pound pumpkin without if something else goes wrong. so, anyways, that pumpkin right now is called we renamed it sourdough loaf because this is wild. Okay. things split so so often. They they're called stem stem splits. Where the stem, like right here, feeds into the pumpkin only it's giant. And this is a blossom end. So they also split on the blossom end. I tend to get stem splits because I overwatered. Anyways, you can perform surgery on it. So not only am I a scientist, I'm also a surgeon, right? I'm a doctor. And so I take a filet knife and I cut my stem to alleviate. The stress of the pumpkin splitting into the cavity, because in the world of pumpkins, once it goes in the cavity, it's a goner. It's just and the cavity of the pumpkin is like within the actual pumpkin fruit itself. Yeah. So that's just one of the basic rules. So with we renamed it sourdough loaf. I came and I took a fillet knife and it had two splits in it. Yes. And I just cut some more splits on it. It is the ugliest pumpkin in the world. And you know what? I was like, I have nothing to lose. I just want to see if it works. And then I didn't realize because you know, we get attached to our pumpkins. I was like, I cannot kill this. It keeps growing. It popped at about 60 pounds. It is now close to 500. It's going to a weigh off tomorrow. It is chopped up on the top. It literally looks like a sourdough loaf. It is so funny. It is wild. now in the world of like the real top notch growers, they're like, What are you doing? I'm like, Well, I have one plant. Of course I'm gonna do this. Like, what if I just created a whole new like way to save a plant? I'm there for it, you know? It's still a really big pumpkin. And if it's a giant pumpkin grow off, you're you brought the giant pumpkin. Yeah. Exactly. So so I do have the the two on the plant this year. but it is the ugliest pumpkin you'll probably ever see. Well, I can't wait to see a picture of it. I'm sure a sourdough loaf, I like I I am already excited to see it. I support it. So my two last questions in this area are because we've talked about the seeds and the soil and the water and the fertilizer and the plant as it grows, how you're taking care of different diseases and pests. How do you get it when it's done to the way off? Yeah. It's it well, so there's many different ways of doing it. we grew dum dum in our backyard. I did not know very many people in our neighborhood. We're not like It's just not very neighborhoody. it's a lot of new construction and it's just really separated. It's kind of a busy street. It forced me to be like, I know that we cannot live this by ourselves. And we're at the age where our backs are starting to hurt. Sure. I think we we actually I hurt my back the first time I was moving one. we put it because when you grow giant pumpkins, you grow them on hopefully a platform because mice can come up and chew bugs, slugs, all those things. So I grow it like on sand. Some people do a piece of plywood with drainage holes or something. anyways, I went and I just like started asking strangers. Like, I know them, I don't know their name. And I'm like, I have a giant pumpkin, I have to move. Can you help me? And we had seven strangers in our backyard that were now all friends. So talk about like amazing. Not only are they strangers, they have to figure out a way how to communicate and move us. that turned out to be like six something crazy. You know, I just say 700. I think it was close enough to that. That's a lot. And then you have to have a way to get it through. And we didn't account that it would actually get that big. And it was a tight squeeze. So so tomorrow though, we're have three 12 foot four by fours. My husband will assemble together like a tripod and he has some chain and we have some tie big thick tie straps. And we will go and we'll wrap the pumpkin and we'll do the chain. We'll lift it up back up the trailer and set it down on a piece of plywood or or pallet wood. So that's how we get it. And then just you're you you cover it, you want to protect it for one night because you know some people they if they're traveling from a long ways away, like pumpkins take up a lot of water. So they're putting that, they cut the stem down and they I'll have it in a bucket of water. So it can feed the pumpkin till the actual like delivery of the pumpkin. my gosh. Well, I am I need it to be next year already because I'm like, okay, well, well, I can start now with my soil and working on my soil and getting it into a place where I start to feel good for next year. But I definitely am going to try growing a giant pumpkin next year. Yes. And checking out my local garden clubs and see what wayoffs are in my community right now. Yep. And one of the things that I love the most about the entirety of you talking about giant pumpkins is the through line of community, of whether it's your neighbors coming up to your pumpkin and getting that tour of your yard or helping you or the mentors and community you've made through growing giant pumpkins, I just love and aspire to. And the the gardening community is such a lovely one. Yes. and I'm so glad that you're now part of mine too. Thank you. and I will say that anytime anyone has questions, I love helping people succeed. If I don't have a question, I'll give you the right resource or the answer, I'll give you the right resource. So when you get your soil test, send it to me. I have connections. If I have a question on how to answer it, we want to get you set up so you can grow a giant. And even if it means growing them up over trellises, over fences, whatever it takes, it can happen. I love that so much. Now we have. Rapid fire questions for you that we give to all of our guests at the end of the podcast. So, first thing is what's one thing you'll never grow again? Hmm, pollenless sunflowers. Pollenless sunflowers? Yeah, yeah. They're so at the beginning of my gardening journey, it was I was really caught up with the beautiful flowers that Florette was doing and how passionate she was. And I'm like, maybe I'll be a flower gardener, you know, a farmer. And I bought one that was bred for the cut flower industry. one thing I noticed because I'm always I've been growing sunflowers for 27 years and I always have my seeds. that I just prefer sunflowers that have multi-heads because it will give me a bloom for a couple of months. And these cut pollenless sunflowers take up 60 days to grow, seed to flower, and then they're done. You cut it, harvest it, and I'm like, I grow in a small space, I don't want that. Plus, I have learned Most of my education with gardening is through observing the bees and the pollinators and having things in balance. So the I want I want food for those bees. I like I don't know how to explain how happy I get when I see the bees getting food. Yeah. they're my little children. So I will never grow pollen the sunflowers again. They make it makes me so happy. It goes back to the whimsy of it all. Yes. What's one thing you would always grow? Always grow is a giant pumpkin. Always. Yeah, or pumpkins in general. I am so fascinated by all the varieties and I'm limited in space, so I can only trial so many. But like I love to grow ones from around the world because we only know what the seed industry has bred and introduced to us. There's so much out there, you know, resourcing the seeds from Baker Creek or really small seed places around the US, small, you know, heirloom ones that I haven't grown that they're not popular because they're from a family farm. so I will always be growing pumpkins. Me too. what's one thing you wish you could grow? I love tropical. So I think I get really, really sad when I can't grow some of those tropical plants because they take a lot of work and I have to bring them into my little greenhouse. so I think anything in that tropical category that is my boys love dinosaurs, they love jungles. You know, I already do tropical here, but I'm kind of limited and it does take a lot of work to overwinter some of them with the right mulch. but I would like. I would love to garden like more south where I could get these things growing year long, some of those tropicals. So yeah. As a New Englander, same. Yeah. Well, just thank you so much for being on Garden Like. Where can our listeners find and follow you? Well, I'm on Instagram. most of my pumpkin adventures are on garden on Gibson. I just started TikTok. we'll see how it goes. but yeah, I do a lot of my my journeys and discoveries. I just love sharing the things that I'm learning on a daily basis that just the wow factor never stops. Like every time I walk out, I'm just like, my gosh, it looks different at this light. It looks different with this rain and this this little raindrop on the leaf or the flower, the bugs that are different and they're moving. So I I tend to share my stuff there. I think because of how much I identify with what you're saying, I would think a lot of people do the amount of times I'm like, you have to go look at this. The water droplet is on in just the right way or this bee's over here. did you see the way this is? And so just thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, your experience, your love of pumpkins. Yeah. And thank you to the audience for listening. And with that, we'll see you next time.