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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 33 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie.
0:09
Speaker 2: Missing day thirty three.
0:12
Speaker 1: This as her son in law who came under fire
0:16
Speaker 1: early on, not here, but by others attacking him, breaks cover,
0:22
Speaker 1: subjecting himself to the glare of the camera.
0:25
Speaker 2: And did the.
0:26
Speaker 1: Purp return to the scene. Is there a way to
0:32
Speaker 1: catch him on video?
0:35
Speaker 2: If he did? Many others have made that mistake.
0:40
Speaker 1: This as we learn about a glove found nearby allegedly
0:44
Speaker 1: ruled out because it belonged to a restaurant worker. Really
0:48
Speaker 1: has everybody in that restaurant been ruled out? And why
0:51
Speaker 1: was that glove close to Nancy Guthrie's home. Tonight we
0:56
Speaker 1: learn Nano says the end is near? But is it
1:01
Speaker 1: Nanos under fire? Good evening, I Nancy Grace, this is
1:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
1:09
Speaker 1: The children of Nancy Guthrie coming to the location where
1:14
Speaker 1: flowers have been laid out in her honor. Savannah on
1:19
Speaker 1: the left, you see Annie on the right, and I
1:23
Speaker 1: believe in the middle is Nancy Guthrie's son in law.
1:30
Speaker 1: This is a heart breaking moment for this family. Savannah
1:39
Speaker 1: hugging her brother in law together united hugging her brother
1:47
Speaker 1: in law. Okay, straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned
1:54
Speaker 1: psycho analys joining us out of the LA jurisdiction.
1:57
Speaker 2: She is author of deal Breaker.
1:59
Speaker 1: You can see her now on Peacock and find her
2:01
Speaker 1: at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, I
2:06
Speaker 1: may not be in n as his war room, but
2:09
Speaker 1: I can tell you this much. I know Savannah from
2:12
Speaker 1: way back when when we worn't together at Court TV,
2:15
Speaker 1: and I can tell you this, Dr Bethany Marshall.
2:18
Speaker 2: She would not wrap her arm around a guy.
2:21
Speaker 1: That she suspected in her mother's kidnap until hell freezes over.
2:28
Speaker 2: What about it, Bethany.
2:29
Speaker 3: If she suspected him, Nancy, there would be massive division
2:33
Speaker 3: within the family. This brother in law would not even
2:37
Speaker 3: be living with the family. He would be somewhere else.
2:39
Speaker 3: He would be with his own relatives. But it appears
2:42
Speaker 3: that he is united with Savannah and with Annie Guthrie.
2:46
Speaker 3: He has been living with his wife. And I think, Nancy,
2:50
Speaker 3: that he has been targeted because he's a man. He
2:54
Speaker 3: may be one of the lower wage journers in the family.
2:56
Speaker 3: He has things that makes him vulnerable and a target
2:59
Speaker 3: to the public. But that family loves him. He's the
3:03
Speaker 3: son in law, he's the brother in law. He's there,
3:06
Speaker 3: and I think it is tragic that the family has
3:10
Speaker 3: had yet another assault, which is an assault on their
3:13
Speaker 3: own family member.
3:15
Speaker 2: The son in law.
3:18
Speaker 1: Breaking cover after being attacked and maligned in the knees. Okay,
3:23
Speaker 1: Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, tell me
3:26
Speaker 1: about what we're seeing right now.
3:28
Speaker 4: What you're actually seeing is the Savannah's first public appearance.
3:33
Speaker 4: She has only been seen on video since this story broke.
3:37
Speaker 4: This is her first public appearance and it is at
3:40
Speaker 4: the home of her mother. You noticed that makeshift memorial
3:43
Speaker 4: was set up just off Nancy Guthrie's property because it
3:47
Speaker 4: was just done by neighbors and friends coming by and
3:50
Speaker 4: setting it up just off the property. But Savannah and
3:53
Speaker 4: Tomasso and Annie and all of them cleared of any
3:57
Speaker 4: involvement in this case. But as you mentioned, you know
4:00
Speaker 4: Tamasa has taken a lot of heat and him showing
4:04
Speaker 4: up and when you see them all arm in arm,
4:06
Speaker 4: it really does give you that sense of unity that
4:09
Speaker 4: they have been projecting. Now Cameron, Savannah's older brother, he's
4:14
Speaker 4: not present. We don't know if he is in Arizona
4:17
Speaker 4: or he's gone back home. We don't know that yet,
4:20
Speaker 4: but we have seen the n cleared and then again
4:22
Speaker 4: seeing this unity and placing a card at the memorial.
4:27
Speaker 4: Very very emotional, Nancy, very emotional.
4:30
Speaker 2: Oh my stars.
4:31
Speaker 1: You know, Dr Bethany, I could hardly stand to look
4:34
Speaker 1: at the flowers when my dad passed away. I could
4:38
Speaker 1: hardly stand it. It reminded me so much of the
4:42
Speaker 1: flowers when my fiance was murdered. To this day, I
4:45
Speaker 1: cannot stand to be around a carnation. It physically, to
4:49
Speaker 1: this day makes me feel nauseous from Keith's funeral. But
4:54
Speaker 1: that said, that is heartbreaking right there. That is heartbreaking
5:00
Speaker 1: them walking up to that and knowing they're on camera
5:03
Speaker 1: to boot at their mom's flower honorarium. And I'm not
5:08
Speaker 1: saying memorial because i don't care what anybody says. I'm
5:11
Speaker 1: not giving up hope. There is still a hope we
5:15
Speaker 1: can bring her home alive. Yes, I'm no idiot. I
5:18
Speaker 1: know the odds, but I'm still believing. But what they're
5:22
Speaker 1: going through is hell without the brother being tried and executed,
5:28
Speaker 1: tarred and feathered in the press.
5:31
Speaker 3: The tart of feather Nancy. As I said earlier, it's
5:33
Speaker 3: yet another assault on the family Nancy. They are out
5:37
Speaker 3: there placing flowers at the memorial for one very specific reason,
5:43
Speaker 3: besides their love for their mother. They want us to
5:46
Speaker 3: keep praying and hoping. They rely on the public, on
5:51
Speaker 3: the neighbors, on the news, on people like you to
5:54
Speaker 3: keep the story alive, to keep the investigation on going.
5:57
Speaker 3: So they are encouraging us the public and tragically Nancy.
6:03
Speaker 3: Those flowers are yellow. You know the song tied yellow
6:08
Speaker 3: ribbon around the old Oak Tree. It was out about
6:11
Speaker 3: bringing our veterans home or bringing our soldiers home. This
6:15
Speaker 3: is a plea from the public to bring Nancy got
6:18
Speaker 3: three home. That is what the yellow means, and that's
6:22
Speaker 3: why they are placing yellow flowers there. They desperately want
6:28
Speaker 3: their mother home.
6:30
Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox, guys, we have an all
6:33
Speaker 1: star panel and you're seeing this from our friends at
6:36
Speaker 1: Today the Today Show, where that Anchorchaeir has been empty
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Speaker 1: since Savannah's mother went missing. There have been feelings, but
6:43
Speaker 1: there's no replacement for Savannah again joining us an all
6:46
Speaker 1: star panel, But I want to go out to Heather
6:48
Speaker 1: Barnhart in the last hours, we see the family, including
6:53
Speaker 1: the brother in law, placing flowers at a public honorarium.
6:59
Speaker 2: I'm not ready to say a memorial. I'm not going
7:01
Speaker 2: to go there yet. And you see Savannah with her arm.
7:05
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of times wives they don't want
7:08
Speaker 1: to see that their husband is a piece of crap, right,
7:12
Speaker 1: we all know that because love is blind, you want
7:14
Speaker 1: to believe the best. But Savannah hbln us. She's not
7:19
Speaker 1: gonna drape her arm around him when she's thinking, yeah,
7:22
Speaker 1: he did it, that's not happening. But aside from human
7:25
Speaker 1: emotion and me trying to read Savannah's body language from behind,
7:31
Speaker 1: Heather Barnhardt is joining us, guys. She is an insane expert,
7:36
Speaker 1: I mean digital forensics expert. Was celebrate and we all know.
7:42
Speaker 2: What that is. After the Alex Murdlarg trial and after.
7:46
Speaker 1: This investigation, she's with the Sands Institute Systems Admin, Audit,
7:52
Speaker 1: network and security. She is one of this part I
7:56
Speaker 1: like the best, one of the digital forensic experts that
8:00
Speaker 1: helped crack the Brian Coburger case. And remember he went
8:05
Speaker 1: back and back and back to the scene of the crime.
8:08
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about why people do that
8:10
Speaker 1: and did this killer do it for Pete's sake? Nanos,
8:13
Speaker 1: I hope you're recording people coming back to the scene.
8:17
Speaker 1: Also co author of Practical Mobile Forensics, now in its
8:21
Speaker 1: fourth edition.
8:22
Speaker 2: What does that mean?
8:23
Speaker 1: That means it's in such demand that as each year
8:26
Speaker 1: passes they update it to have the newest and the
8:30
Speaker 1: very best information in that Okay, Heather, thank you for
8:33
Speaker 1: being with us. Now let's talk about something I do understand.
8:36
Speaker 1: As opposed to body language. What would the FBI and
8:41
Speaker 1: Nanos if somebody explained to him what to do do
8:45
Speaker 1: to rule out the sun in law.
8:48
Speaker 5: There has to be a fine tooth comb going through
8:52
Speaker 5: every digital artifact that belongs to him. Your phone has
8:56
Speaker 5: all the truth. Who do you communicate with, what do
8:58
Speaker 5: you search for?
8:59
Speaker 2: Where are you? What is your alibi?
9:02
Speaker 5: In order for someone to be cleared, you have to
9:04
Speaker 5: understand the due diligence that went into play here. So
9:08
Speaker 5: it's awful that people are still pointing the fingers back.
9:10
Speaker 5: It just keeps terrorizing the family.
9:12
Speaker 1: Okay, Heather, let me tell you what I read on
9:16
Speaker 1: x AKA Twitter or right before we came to air.
9:20
Speaker 1: All right, I read all of the ideas and some
9:24
Speaker 1: of them are really very good. One person is now
9:29
Speaker 1: blaming the daughter Annie. They're taking the picture of Annie
9:33
Speaker 1: and they're using the whites of her eyes.
9:37
Speaker 2: When she looks to the side.
9:40
Speaker 1: You know, when you look to the side without moving
9:42
Speaker 1: your head, you can see more of the white of
9:44
Speaker 1: your eye. So they're taking that, and they are then
9:48
Speaker 1: comparing the perp, who I now believe is a man
9:52
Speaker 1: at first look very feminine. They're comparing that shot of
9:56
Speaker 1: the porch guy to Annie and saying that it's really
10:00
Speaker 1: Annie based on the whites of the eyes of the perp.
10:04
Speaker 1: I mean, stop people, because I guarantee you the FBI
10:09
Speaker 1: has been three inches up all of these children's tailpipes
10:13
Speaker 1: from the get go, because typically that's who did it,
10:17
Speaker 1: someone within the family.
10:18
Speaker 2: Then you move out.
10:20
Speaker 1: To friends, deliveries, granny, Nanny's churchgoers, within her circle. But
10:25
Speaker 1: isn't the first thing that law enforcement does, Heather, is
10:29
Speaker 1: try to rule out the family.
10:31
Speaker 5: Absolutely, That's what you always have to do. And also
10:34
Speaker 5: I agree with you, Nancy, that is not Annie walking
10:37
Speaker 5: up onto that porch. And also wouldn't she know that
10:40
Speaker 5: camera existed? Why would she have to go and grab
10:42
Speaker 5: some weeds from the garden and cover it. It makes
10:45
Speaker 5: absolutely no sense and you can see the mannerisms there.
10:48
Speaker 5: But family always has to be ruled out because that's
10:52
Speaker 5: the easiest way. The inside knows the most about Nancy,
10:56
Speaker 5: so ruling them out has to be done, but with
10:58
Speaker 5: due diligence.
11:00
Speaker 1: I want to understand exactly how you rule someone out,
11:04
Speaker 1: and guys, you've got so much to get to. I
11:06
Speaker 1: don't want to belabor this point, but Heather, it would
11:08
Speaker 1: be a matter of looking at their cell phone data,
11:12
Speaker 1: not just where it was going, but who were they contacting,
11:17
Speaker 1: how often when they were contacting people, and had they
11:21
Speaker 1: bought a burner phone, you would look for that. You
11:24
Speaker 1: would trace their movements with their actual cell phone to
11:27
Speaker 1: see if they went to the Quick Trip or the
11:30
Speaker 1: Circle k or wherever you can get a burner phone.
11:33
Speaker 1: You can get them anywhere, see if a purchase had
11:36
Speaker 1: been made. They would be looking for that. They would
11:38
Speaker 1: be looking for where they had traveled in their vehicle
11:41
Speaker 1: all leading up to specifically in the two weeks leading
11:45
Speaker 1: up to Nancy's disappearance, they would go through all of
11:48
Speaker 1: their digitals and remember at the get go, Heather, let's
11:51
Speaker 1: see that photo control room of when the Feds were
11:55
Speaker 1: bringing out the box, the fad box that downloads all
12:04
Speaker 1: of your digital data.
12:06
Speaker 2: There you go. And there was another one.
12:08
Speaker 1: Too where the guy the Elie was carrying looked like
12:12
Speaker 1: a messenger boy bag around his shoulder, over his shoulder.
12:17
Speaker 1: Oh guys, this is from kild and it was actually
12:20
Speaker 1: a you fed Heather, how does that work?
12:22
Speaker 5: The you fed is the hardware that we use to
12:26
Speaker 5: extract data from phone, so it will give us a
12:29
Speaker 5: full file system acquisition that allows us to look at
12:33
Speaker 5: every single piece of evidence, every artifact, every communication location
12:38
Speaker 5: that exists on that device. And when you see celebrate
12:42
Speaker 5: leaving and I know there's shirts, and there's boxes and
12:44
Speaker 5: there's cases, that's actually a good sign. That means that
12:48
Speaker 5: law enforcement is doing their due diligence to get all
12:51
Speaker 5: of the information pertaining to the crime.
12:54
Speaker 2: So how would they track everybody? Heather?
12:56
Speaker 1: And I know that you have to dumby down for
12:58
Speaker 1: all of us, but how would they track and or
13:02
Speaker 1: clear the son in law and the brother and the sister.
13:06
Speaker 1: People are even speculating that Savannah kidnapped her own mother.
13:09
Speaker 2: It's a waste of oxygen.
13:12
Speaker 1: But how do you track that and rule the people
13:15
Speaker 1: out because in the last hours we see the son
13:18
Speaker 1: in law breaking cover in an a poignant and heartbreaking way.
13:22
Speaker 2: So how does it happen?
13:23
Speaker 1: I want to hear that the fundamentals, the rudimentary explanation.
13:27
Speaker 2: How do you actually do it?
13:28
Speaker 5: It's exactly what people see on TV. So you have
13:32
Speaker 5: to have an alibi. Did you take a polygraph proving
13:34
Speaker 5: your alibi as correct? Your phone is looked through, all
13:37
Speaker 5: your financial documentations, in every purchase that you've made, have
13:42
Speaker 5: you purchased weapons, your location artifacts, All of these things
13:47
Speaker 5: come into play to give a sound alibi clearing family
13:51
Speaker 5: from investigations like this. And this is something that law
13:53
Speaker 5: enforcement would not take lightly. It is on them to
13:56
Speaker 5: solve this and they probably went through with such diligence
14:00
Speaker 5: because it's easy. If the suspect is an insider, then
14:03
Speaker 5: you don't have to go out and looking at the public.
14:05
Speaker 1: Well, okay, let me be more pointed in my question,
14:08
Speaker 1: your honor. Let me rephrase that's what I do when
14:13
Speaker 1: I have a witness that is not being responsive. Before
14:16
Speaker 1: I have to get really mean, Heather, how would you
14:19
Speaker 1: try how would you figure out if somebody bought a
14:21
Speaker 1: burner phone?
14:22
Speaker 2: How would you start that investigation.
14:24
Speaker 5: Well, that's a good question. Most people would do it
14:26
Speaker 5: with cash if you're smart. If you did it with
14:28
Speaker 5: a credit card, that's easy to financially trace it back.
14:31
Speaker 5: But wherever burner phones can be purchased, think of walmarts
14:35
Speaker 5: and locations like that, the CCTV footage of a person
14:38
Speaker 5: entering would be crystal clear there. Also, they would still
14:42
Speaker 5: ping cell towers because they have prepaid some cards in them.
14:46
Speaker 5: They have data plans, so you can't hide from that
14:49
Speaker 5: tower data.
14:50
Speaker 2: You know, when your technical legal term really.
14:52
Speaker 1: Screwed have their bar and heart is when you buy
14:56
Speaker 1: a burner phone with cash and you use the name
15:00
Speaker 1: like bugs Bunny, because unlike T mobile or AT and
15:05
Speaker 1: T or VZW, where it's under your name, there is
15:08
Speaker 1: an account with Heather Barnhart on it, and it's got's
15:10
Speaker 1: your address, it's got's probably got your social security it's
15:12
Speaker 1: probably got everything on there. Your credit card that you
15:14
Speaker 1: pay with a burner phone you can put under any
15:18
Speaker 1: name and it doesn't have to be connected to you
15:21
Speaker 1: or any other mobile number. For instance, a lot of
15:23
Speaker 1: times when you start an email, you have to give
15:25
Speaker 1: your old email, or you have to give some type
15:26
Speaker 1: of contact information not with a burner phone. So if
15:29
Speaker 1: you go in and pay for it with cash, the FEDS,
15:33
Speaker 1: the government is screwed because they've got to figure it out.
15:37
Speaker 1: They have to look at burner phones in the area,
15:40
Speaker 1: narrow it down, and then trace that burner phone. And
15:43
Speaker 1: when they finally get to the store they find out
15:44
Speaker 1: bugs Bunny bought it, They're screwed because then they have
15:47
Speaker 1: to look for video surveillance to see if they can
15:50
Speaker 1: find the person. It's just it's really hard if that's
15:54
Speaker 1: the way it went down.
15:55
Speaker 2: Heather, agree or disagree.
15:58
Speaker 5: I kind of agree, But we are assuming that people
16:01
Speaker 5: are really smart. Most criminals aren't. So if I go
16:03
Speaker 5: buy a burner phone right now and I want to
16:05
Speaker 5: be Jessica Rabbit, that's great. But guess what, Heather Barnhardt's
16:10
Speaker 5: device is right here beside me. They will talk to
16:12
Speaker 5: each other. It is almost impossible to hide your location
16:16
Speaker 5: even from burner phones, and those two devices will eventually communicate.
16:20
Speaker 5: So as smart as we want to be, digital evidence
16:23
Speaker 5: is smarter, and it's really hard to outsmart.
16:25
Speaker 2: That crime stories with Nancy Grace.
16:37
Speaker 1: Joining me now, Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations, USPA Nationwide Security.
16:42
Speaker 1: He leads a team of trained investigators that go around
16:45
Speaker 1: the world trying to find missing people. He is a
16:50
Speaker 1: former marine. He is in a rocky war vet. I
16:53
Speaker 1: think that says it all. Fitzgibbons, thank you for being
16:56
Speaker 1: with us tonight. I want you to weigh in and
16:58
Speaker 1: why do I care about the son in law being
17:01
Speaker 1: ruled out? Because that's one less person that everybody on
17:05
Speaker 1: the internet has to focus on. Now we can redirect
17:08
Speaker 1: energy to finding the perp. Because if you go down
17:13
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole and as the wrong rabbit hole, you're
17:16
Speaker 1: wasting a lot of time. And I have seen cases
17:20
Speaker 1: solved by citizen sleuth. Do I have to say, Gabby
17:23
Speaker 1: Patito for the millionth time, but that sentence given is
17:27
Speaker 1: way in the sun in law breaking cover being seen
17:33
Speaker 1: in public, after being subjected to a tar and feathering
17:37
Speaker 1: like no other.
17:38
Speaker 4: Yeah.
17:38
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And I want to add something here. Heather did
17:41
Speaker 6: a tremendous job of explaining, you know, the hard science
17:44
Speaker 6: behind getting this data. But folks need to understand, after
17:50
Speaker 6: all that data was collected, the law enforcement has it,
17:54
Speaker 6: and they're conducting interviews with the family and they're using
17:58
Speaker 6: that data to drive those questions, right, and they're going
18:02
Speaker 6: to find out is their deception, are their patterns of
18:06
Speaker 6: deception or their lives being told? And that's obviously that
18:10
Speaker 6: didn't happen here. So the reality is that they weren't
18:13
Speaker 6: cleared just because the cell phone data was, you know,
18:18
Speaker 6: cleared them. They were also cleared after extensive amounts of interviews,
18:23
Speaker 6: and that I think that gets forgotten online, that you know,
18:27
Speaker 6: they are professional investigators having those conversations and everything's coming
18:33
Speaker 6: up good for the family member.
18:35
Speaker 1: Fitz Gibbons, do you believe the family took Polly's because
18:38
Speaker 1: I think they did.
18:40
Speaker 2: I think they did. I think they strapped that sent
18:42
Speaker 2: along to a poll in a New York Minute.
18:45
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's to be expected. And I've said this,
18:49
Speaker 1: I'm screaming it again. Gold standard Mark Klass. When his
18:53
Speaker 1: daughter Polly went missing, they came from a spend the
18:56
Speaker 1: night in her home, in her mom's home. There were
18:59
Speaker 1: other little girls in the room. First thing they do,
19:02
Speaker 1: they bam on his door. He goes, take my fingerprints,
19:05
Speaker 1: take my DNA. I'll give an alibi. Search my home,
19:09
Speaker 1: search my car, search my office. So I'll take a
19:11
Speaker 1: Polly so you can go find who has my daughter.
19:14
Speaker 1: Of course they would submit to a Polly at the
19:17
Speaker 1: get go, because that's spiecete interoperating procedure. You look at
19:21
Speaker 1: the family first. Does it another technical legal term suck? Yes,
19:26
Speaker 1: it does for the family, but they do it because
19:29
Speaker 1: they want law enforcement to move on to find the purp.
19:33
Speaker 1: So I imagine they all submitted to Polly's at the
19:35
Speaker 1: get go, especially the son in law.
19:37
Speaker 2: He's part of the family, but he's not a blood relation,
19:39
Speaker 2: so they look at him first. That's spot on.
19:42
Speaker 6: And I want to add another thing, the amount of
19:45
Speaker 6: resources thrown at this in the first thirty days. Okay,
19:49
Speaker 6: they absolutely would have focused hard on the son in law,
19:53
Speaker 6: on all the family members. And you know, the logic
19:57
Speaker 6: tells us, given that there hasn't been an on either
20:01
Speaker 6: one of them, that they've been clear.
20:03
Speaker 1: One of the first pleas buy Savannah Guthrie and she
20:08
Speaker 1: is sitting with sister Annie and brother Cameron. Do you
20:12
Speaker 1: really think she would have sat there willingly knowing her
20:16
Speaker 1: brother in law was part of the kidnap plan.
20:23
Speaker 7: Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman
20:31
Speaker 7: of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky, and clever. She
20:39
Speaker 7: has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and
20:43
Speaker 7: cover her with kisses.
20:44
Speaker 1: And Annie has been attacked. Of course, her husband is
20:48
Speaker 1: the son in law we're talking about.
20:50
Speaker 2: For not looking at the camera.
20:53
Speaker 7: Look, we received your message, and we understand. We beg
20:59
Speaker 7: you now to return our mother to us so that
21:02
Speaker 7: we can celebrate with her. This is the only way
21:06
Speaker 7: we will have people.
21:07
Speaker 1: To doctor Bethany Marshall throughout that was I believe the
21:10
Speaker 1: second plea that Savannah may with the brother and her
21:14
Speaker 1: sister with her.
21:15
Speaker 2: Annie could hardly look up. See. I didn't find that
21:19
Speaker 2: unusual given the circumstances.
21:22
Speaker 3: Nancy. She's looking down because she's overwhelmed, she's disheartened, she's depressed.
21:28
Speaker 2: If she was.
21:28
Speaker 3: Looking straight at the camera, Nancy, that's a sign of defiance.
21:33
Speaker 3: That's a sign of defensiveness. It's appropriate that she looked down.
21:36
Speaker 3: And you know, Nancy, if it was a family member,
21:39
Speaker 3: I just want to say, there would be so much
21:42
Speaker 3: behavioral evidence. And what I mean by that is that
21:45
Speaker 3: you would have one family member who would be saying,
21:49
Speaker 3: oh can I pay moms bills? Oh can I have
21:51
Speaker 3: the number to mom's banking account? Oh can I talk
21:54
Speaker 3: to Mom's a state attorney. Oh, I have a big
21:57
Speaker 3: bill to pay. Will Mom cover that from me? Let
22:01
Speaker 3: me spend time with mom today. There would be somebody
22:04
Speaker 3: within that family, and there is not who would have
22:07
Speaker 3: been targeting Nancy Guthrie financially and we have not seen that.
22:13
Speaker 3: So there is no behavioral evidence whatsoever to support that
22:18
Speaker 3: there's a family member involved in her disappearance.
22:22
Speaker 1: Then the theories got crazier that the son in law
22:26
Speaker 1: was involved with an accomplice, and that the accomplice was
22:29
Speaker 1: sending the ransom notes and the son in law had
22:32
Speaker 1: cut off contacts so they both wouldn't be caught.
22:35
Speaker 2: I mean, it just spun out out. And now that said,
22:38
Speaker 2: let's move forward with what we know.
22:42
Speaker 1: Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter in the
22:47
Speaker 1: last hours Nano's has said, we're definitely getting close.
22:51
Speaker 7: Now.
22:52
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means in Nano's land, but
22:54
Speaker 1: can I talk to you about the glove, the restaurant
22:57
Speaker 1: glove that was found tell me and a nutshell, Dave
23:01
Speaker 1: Matt A nutshell.
23:02
Speaker 4: Glove found two miles away from Nancy Guthrie's house had
23:05
Speaker 4: DNA on it. They ran the investigation ran everything they
23:09
Speaker 4: could on this glove. It traced back to a restaurant
23:12
Speaker 4: employee who the investigators have cleared as a potential suspect.
23:18
Speaker 4: Whever alibi he had chat or she checked out. We
23:21
Speaker 4: do not know the name of the restaurant. We just
23:24
Speaker 4: know that that glove did not become part of the investigation.
23:28
Speaker 4: It was part from a restaurant worker.
23:30
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you told me that, Dave Matt, because
23:32
Speaker 1: I was concerned and they went, oh, yeah, this glove
23:35
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. It belongs to a restaurant worker.
23:37
Speaker 1: But you're telling me they went ahead and cleared the
23:40
Speaker 1: restaurant worker. They did investigate it. Correct, correct, Speaking of restaurant,
23:47
Speaker 1: did Nancy Guthrie unwittingly make herself a target?
23:52
Speaker 2: I reject the theory.
23:54
Speaker 1: This was a Savannah, Arizona homecoming where she went home
23:58
Speaker 1: and there she is with her mom and they're out
24:00
Speaker 1: in a Mexican restaurant. There's any I think that's any
24:02
Speaker 1: over to the left. I can't quite make it out.
24:05
Speaker 1: But this was on air how soon before the kidnapping,
24:13
Speaker 1: And that's from our friends at today.
24:16
Speaker 2: When did this happen?
24:17
Speaker 4: Dave mac that video actually Eric, just a couple of
24:21
Speaker 4: weeks before the kidnapping Nancy, because if you remember it,
24:25
Speaker 4: Savannah had been off the show four weeks having surgery
24:30
Speaker 4: on her throat and was recovering from it. This was
24:32
Speaker 4: all part of the holidays and everything else, coming back
24:35
Speaker 4: showing Savannah out with her mother at their favorite Mexican restaurant.
24:40
Speaker 1: You know, I'm also I'm thinking back, Dave, if you
24:44
Speaker 1: could refresh our recollection. Do you recall that odd Google
24:49
Speaker 1: search that searched for Nancy Guffries's home address and Savannah's salary?
24:56
Speaker 2: Do you remember that search?
24:58
Speaker 4: It was June of twenty two.
25:01
Speaker 1: So the Google search was Jane of twenty twenty five. Okay,
25:04
Speaker 1: so that has really no bearing on the restaurant appearance,
25:09
Speaker 1: you know, Doctor Bethany Marshall, I think I worded that incorrectly.
25:14
Speaker 1: I said, did Nancy Guthrie unwittingly make herself a target?
25:18
Speaker 1: That is somehow putting blame on the victim. What I
25:22
Speaker 1: meant to say, what I should have said, is did
25:26
Speaker 1: some perv, some evil, hateful, mean spirited person see her
25:33
Speaker 1: on the Today Show and target her? That's what I
25:37
Speaker 1: should have said. Because that appearance was coming from a
25:41
Speaker 1: place of love, not in any way the victim putting
25:46
Speaker 1: them making themselves a target.
25:49
Speaker 3: If this was a result of a crazed fan who
25:52
Speaker 3: saw her in the restaurant, or a server perhaps who
25:56
Speaker 3: learned that, oh, this is Savannah Guthrie, then that would
25:59
Speaker 3: be more of a stalking scenario, Nancy. And in a
26:02
Speaker 3: stalking scenario, these stalkers always write manifestos. You would see
26:09
Speaker 3: something on the internet, something in somebody's home, they would
26:13
Speaker 3: have become preoccupied and started talking to a family member
26:16
Speaker 3: about it. There are no missives that have come in,
26:20
Speaker 3: no missives that we see prior to a kidnapping that
26:25
Speaker 3: is motivated by somebody's fame. So yes, you're right, she
26:30
Speaker 3: would not have made herself target. She's not making herself
26:33
Speaker 3: a victim. But I don't believe she's a target because
26:35
Speaker 3: of that anyway.
26:42
Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Gray joining us now Brian Trasher,
26:51
Speaker 1: the vice president of the United Kajuan Navy, now in Arizona,
26:55
Speaker 1: offering to help in a search for Nancy Guthrie. Understanding
27:00
Speaker 1: Brian Trasher that Nanos has not responded. He needs all
27:05
Speaker 1: the help he can get, so I'm not sure what
27:07
Speaker 1: his delay is.
27:08
Speaker 2: But Brian, I want to ask you a pointed question.
27:11
Speaker 1: I noticed online that the United Cajun Navy is being
27:15
Speaker 1: attacked for soliciting donations. Aren't these volunteers they don't expect
27:20
Speaker 1: to be paid. So are you soliciting donations? And if so,
27:24
Speaker 1: why so?
27:26
Speaker 8: No, we've not asked for any donations or posted any
27:29
Speaker 8: donation lanks the entire time we've been in Arizona. It's
27:33
Speaker 8: just internet trolls that we get every time we go anywhere.
27:36
Speaker 8: We've also publicly declined that we would take any reward
27:39
Speaker 8: if we qualified for any or directed to the Center
27:41
Speaker 8: for Missing at Exploiting Persons or Children I think is
27:44
Speaker 8: the name of the organization. No, this isn't about donations.
27:47
Speaker 8: We already have very generous donors that have allowed us
27:49
Speaker 8: to be out in this assessment so that we could
27:52
Speaker 8: submit this detailed, forty one page tactical plan to assist
27:56
Speaker 8: in the search for Nancy Gotthrie.
27:59
Speaker 1: What are are you offering to Nanos and what's his problems?
28:04
Speaker 1: He added another basketball game and hasn't been able to respond.
28:07
Speaker 8: So, you know, we have a lot of volunteers and assets.
28:10
Speaker 8: We have a lot of folks that are very experienced
28:13
Speaker 8: current and former law enforcement, military, all that kind of thing,
28:16
Speaker 8: canine dogs, which are extremely beneficial in these types of searches.
28:21
Speaker 8: The first time we reached out just with a general offer,
28:24
Speaker 8: we did hear back from the p IO saying that
28:27
Speaker 8: they were not accepting help from external organizations. So we
28:30
Speaker 8: kind of after Josh was out there finishing his assessment,
28:33
Speaker 8: we put together a full operational package and figured it
28:36
Speaker 8: couldn't hurt to submit it one more time, just as
28:37
Speaker 8: they would know that. You know, we've come a long
28:40
Speaker 8: way from being just a bunch of guys on boats
28:42
Speaker 8: pulling people off of roofs. We really do have a
28:44
Speaker 8: lot of really amazing assets and capabilities this time. I
28:50
Speaker 8: don't believe we've gotten any answer at all. I think
28:52
Speaker 8: they've just kind of stuck to their their their mantra
28:56
Speaker 8: that they want to leave it to the professionals. But
28:58
Speaker 8: you know, we'd like to remind everybody that Noah's Ark
29:00
Speaker 8: was built by amateur, as the Titanic was built by professionals.
29:03
Speaker 8: I'm not sure why we couldn't be a force multiplier
29:05
Speaker 8: form in this situation.
29:07
Speaker 2: Guys with me.
29:07
Speaker 1: Brian Trasher, VP of the United Cajun Navy offering to
29:14
Speaker 1: help Nanos this as Nanos is coming under fire from
29:18
Speaker 1: inside his own department. And yes, we could talk about
29:21
Speaker 1: that for the rest of our program, but it really
29:24
Speaker 1: doesn't advance the search for Nancy Guthrie to talk about
29:28
Speaker 1: what went wrong except really what has been missed? When
29:35
Speaker 1: was it missed? And can it be fixed? But you know,
29:38
Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons, I want to follow up on what Trasher
29:40
Speaker 1: just said. Brian Fitzgibbons joining us from USPA Nationwide Security.
29:45
Speaker 1: You know, when you don't know a horse, look at
29:47
Speaker 1: his track record. We see Nanos turning down the Cajun Navy.
29:51
Speaker 1: We see him trying to shut out the FEDS, which
29:54
Speaker 1: was such a bad move and we lost many, many
30:00
Speaker 1: day's lead time on that move before the FANS were
30:03
Speaker 1: finally brought in and now it looks like he's doing
30:06
Speaker 1: it again.
30:07
Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's important to point out here that a
30:10
Speaker 6: lot of law enforcement agencies simply don't have the mechanism
30:14
Speaker 6: or built to accept what would be very profitable help
30:19
Speaker 6: from the public and resources like the Cajun Navy, and
30:23
Speaker 6: that's disheartening to see. Adding to this, you know, the
30:27
Speaker 6: Pima County Deputies organization has been tremendously critical of Nanos's
30:32
Speaker 6: leadership in the past year. There have been votes of
30:35
Speaker 6: no confidence and there's been a mass exodus of talented
30:40
Speaker 6: investigators in the last twelve months. So this has been
30:44
Speaker 6: widely reported by spokespeople from the Pima County Deputies Organization,
30:49
Speaker 6: which is their you know, union unionized.
30:51
Speaker 1: Body, right, Dave Max, I want to talk to you
30:56
Speaker 1: about vehicles and video.
30:59
Speaker 2: At the very big I believe it was NANOS.
31:02
Speaker 1: It was stated that the neighbor's video from surveillance video
31:06
Speaker 1: which is about two and a half miles away from
31:08
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's home, on a street that fed into Nancy
31:13
Speaker 1: Street traffic twelve cars between twelve am six am, one
31:18
Speaker 1: speeding by just eight minutes after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker disconnected
31:22
Speaker 1: from Bluetooth when she's taken from the home. At first
31:26
Speaker 1: we were told all that means nothing. Now I understand
31:29
Speaker 1: nanisus stating it may mean something and they're trying to
31:32
Speaker 1: track down the vehicle.
31:33
Speaker 2: Is that true, Dave.
31:34
Speaker 4: Mac absolutely one hundred percent accurate. Nancy started off, they said,
31:40
Speaker 4: doesn't mean anything. Now they've looked at it and going
31:42
Speaker 4: it means everything you actually can see on this video Nancy,
31:46
Speaker 4: the same vehicle going towards the Nancy Guthrie area, and
31:51
Speaker 4: then another leaving the area at two thirty six am,
31:55
Speaker 4: eight minutes as you mentioned, after the Bluetooth disconnected between
31:59
Speaker 4: her pacemaker and her phone or watch.
32:04
Speaker 1: And where I'm going with this, Dave Matt and this
32:06
Speaker 1: is to Brian Tresher from United Cajun Navy.
32:10
Speaker 2: Is see this is at two.
32:11
Speaker 1: Point five miles away from Nancy's home. They had originally
32:16
Speaker 1: set out set up a dragnet a radius of search
32:19
Speaker 1: two miles and this was just outside that video from
32:22
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox. By the way, if volunteers had
32:26
Speaker 1: been used, maybe that restaurant glove other gloves, this video
32:33
Speaker 1: would have been found sooner. Now I understand the problems
32:36
Speaker 1: with chain of custody. You can't hand over a video
32:39
Speaker 1: to a volunteer. You gotta hold up the chain, hand
32:42
Speaker 1: that video over to law enforcement. But the Cajun Navy
32:47
Speaker 1: volunteers could have gone from two miles out, continued to search,
32:51
Speaker 1: gone door to door, asking people if they have surveillance video,
32:54
Speaker 1: and then letting them hand it over to authorities. I mean,
32:57
Speaker 1: there's so much you guys could be doing and are
33:00
Speaker 1: willing to do. This is just one example. See we're
33:04
Speaker 1: twenty plus days into it before we find out about
33:07
Speaker 1: that neighbor's video.
33:08
Speaker 2: That is a shame and it could have been corrected.
33:14
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're right. And you know, we work with law
33:16
Speaker 8: enforcement agencies and agencies like the Coast Guard all the time,
33:20
Speaker 8: and what they do is they give us specific grids,
33:23
Speaker 8: say this is where we want you guys to search,
33:24
Speaker 8: and it's almost always separate and apart from where their
33:27
Speaker 8: own personnel are, so we're not interfering with their actual personnel.
33:33
Speaker 8: They don't ever give us any kind of evidence or
33:35
Speaker 8: things that aren't released to the public. I mean, they
33:37
Speaker 8: have to keep the chain of custody of those things type.
33:39
Speaker 8: We understand that. But that's the whole part nancy of
33:42
Speaker 8: being a force multiplier is that you say, hey, this
33:45
Speaker 8: is how far my agency can go. This is where
33:49
Speaker 8: we want the Cajun maybe to start out here. Just
33:51
Speaker 8: like in Texas after the Hill Country floods, we were
33:53
Speaker 8: working down river from the Coast Guard and the Texas
33:56
Speaker 8: Rangers just in case there was anything that got past them.
33:59
Speaker 8: That's how NGOs like us can work with official agencies
34:03
Speaker 8: very sembiotically and hopefully bring some good resolution to these
34:06
Speaker 8: families that are missing loved ones.
34:10
Speaker 1: And I'm not pro or anti the Cajun Navy. I'm
34:14
Speaker 1: pro finding Nancy Guthrie. That's what I'm about, so very
34:18
Speaker 1: quickly all of these people, and I don't even want
34:22
Speaker 1: to show their pictures. Control Room, don't.
34:24
Speaker 2: Do it, do not do it.
34:29
Speaker 1: Freaks that are showing up trying to do selfie shots
34:35
Speaker 1: outside of Nancy Guthrie's home. They're ghoules, like vampires, and
34:43
Speaker 1: some of them wearing booty shorts and just very scantily clad.
34:51
Speaker 1: It's just so wrong on so many levels. But that said,
34:58
Speaker 1: I'm wondering what you think this Heather Barnhardt and Brian Fitzgibbons.
35:03
Speaker 2: Let's go to Heather first.
35:04
Speaker 1: If surveillance is still there or working in the area,
35:10
Speaker 1: to catch all the people coming back to the scene,
35:14
Speaker 1: because you know, unless they've already high tailed it, left
35:20
Speaker 1: left the jurisdiction, they've gone to ground, they may very
35:25
Speaker 1: well come back to the scene. I know it sounds
35:28
Speaker 1: crazy to us, It sounds crazy to me up here,
35:31
Speaker 1: but suspects do it all the time. And if surveillance
35:35
Speaker 1: video was working two and two could equal four.
35:42
Speaker 5: And if you mix surveillance with cell tower pins, you
35:44
Speaker 5: have even more m O to potentially find this person.
35:50
Speaker 1: This is the purp who's got a bite light in
35:53
Speaker 1: his mouth, Doctor Bethany, Why do people return to the scene? Okay,
36:01
Speaker 1: that people online are saying is annie, which is insane.
36:05
Speaker 2: By the way. Oh and hey, control room, while you're
36:08
Speaker 2: at it.
36:09
Speaker 1: I was reading early early this morning, someone asking did
36:12
Speaker 1: I point out the different jackets the guy with the
36:15
Speaker 1: backpack the guy without the backpack, And I think they
36:19
Speaker 1: were at different times. At the very get go, I
36:21
Speaker 1: was talking to Dave mac and I said that one
36:23
Speaker 1: on the right to me looks like a different jacket.
36:26
Speaker 1: It almost looks like it's got a Minecraft my son's
36:29
Speaker 1: Minecraft hoodie that he had forever when he was a kid.
36:32
Speaker 1: But someone wrote today that it was a camouflage jacket
36:36
Speaker 1: different from the one the purpose wearing the night of
36:40
Speaker 1: the kidnap, and they.
36:41
Speaker 2: May very well be correct.
36:44
Speaker 1: Dave, may do you remember our conversation about how the
36:46
Speaker 1: jackets looked different.
36:47
Speaker 2: I don't know if we were on air or off air.
36:50
Speaker 4: I remember you and I talked about it at length,
36:53
Speaker 4: and we didn't know at that time when the separate
36:57
Speaker 4: photos were taken. We didn't know if they were taken
36:59
Speaker 4: at the same time, and so we were very concerned
37:02
Speaker 4: about what that could. We found out later on they
37:06
Speaker 4: were taken at different times, which really goes back to
37:09
Speaker 4: what you've talked about this guy. This person planned this
37:13
Speaker 4: out enough to maybe have done a dry run through
37:16
Speaker 4: without the gun, you know, and just without the backpack,
37:20
Speaker 4: did a quick walkthrough to see what he was looking at.
37:22
Speaker 2: Maybe you know.
37:24
Speaker 1: Another thing I'm wondering about, and I'm going to circle
37:26
Speaker 1: back to doctor Bethany about why people return to the
37:28
Speaker 1: scene is.
37:30
Speaker 2: What's Google up to right now?
37:32
Speaker 1: Have they managed to get any more video? Is their
37:35
Speaker 1: audio that we haven't seen yet? But as we were
37:40
Speaker 1: talking earlier about returning to the scene, Doctor Bethany, why
37:43
Speaker 1: do people do that?
37:44
Speaker 2: We know that Scott Peterson.
37:45
Speaker 1: Did it repeatedly, and we know that Peterson did it
37:48
Speaker 1: because he had a GPS tracker on his vehicle, including
37:51
Speaker 1: his super secret Batmobile, It had a tracker on it,
37:56
Speaker 1: unknownst to him, unknownst to him. He kept going out
37:58
Speaker 1: and staring out at San Francie. I guess he thought
38:01
Speaker 1: he'd see Lacy's body pop up, which it did, by
38:04
Speaker 1: the way, and then of course Brian Coburger goes back
38:07
Speaker 1: to the scene like eleven times. I think, looking at
38:10
Speaker 1: the same after.
38:11
Speaker 2: The murders freak. So why do they do it, Bethany.
38:16
Speaker 3: We're announcing the most common reason is it you think
38:20
Speaker 3: of Brian Coberger at Scott Peterson, is that they're still
38:23
Speaker 3: glorifying the crime. They're going back to the glory days
38:26
Speaker 3: when they committed the crime. There's a lot of satisfaction.
38:30
Speaker 3: But in this case, I think a reason that a
38:34
Speaker 3: might return is it's really determined by the intent of
38:38
Speaker 3: the crime. If the intent was stalking, then returning would
38:43
Speaker 3: be to gain proximity to the home. If if the
38:47
Speaker 3: intent was financially motivated, it would be to see is
38:50
Speaker 3: there that can they case the house out? Even more,
38:52
Speaker 3: is there something that they can take from the house
38:55
Speaker 3: now that the house is not guarded. It could be
38:57
Speaker 3: motivated by paranoia just to see what's going on out
39:01
Speaker 3: there and are people like circling in closer to them.
39:05
Speaker 3: But I think most likely Nancy, whoever did this, is
39:09
Speaker 3: a very attached to Nancy Guthrie is very connected to her.
39:15
Speaker 3: Either sexually, financially, she's a target and being near her
39:19
Speaker 3: house is somehow would be exciting to them.
39:23
Speaker 2: Ryan Vsgibbons.
39:24
Speaker 1: If the did return to the same how would we
39:28
Speaker 1: catch him?
39:30
Speaker 6: Yeah, just as how the Barnhart said, they're definitely going
39:32
Speaker 6: to be pulling cell phone information number one, number two.
39:37
Speaker 6: It's very likely that there was additional cameras placed at
39:42
Speaker 6: the property by law enforcement to capture just that, and
39:48
Speaker 6: not to mention, there's been a consistent media presence out there,
39:53
Speaker 6: in a consistent presence of law enforcement officials. So they're
39:57
Speaker 6: definitely running cars and plates of everybody who's by.
40:01
Speaker 1: You'd think, right, Brian Fitzgibbons, you'd think they are, But
40:06
Speaker 1: are they.
40:10
Speaker 2: Nobody here is giving up.
40:13
Speaker 1: If you know or you think you know anything about
40:16
Speaker 1: the disappearance of this beloved Grandma Nancy Guthrie, please dial
40:23
Speaker 1: toll free one eight hundred two two five five three
40:26
Speaker 1: two four repeat one eight hundred, call FBI, or if
40:31
Speaker 1: you wish to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight
40:35
Speaker 1: two seven four sixty three repeat five two zero eight
40:39
Speaker 1: eight two seven four six three.
40:43
Speaker 2: There is a one point.
40:44
Speaker 1: Two plus million dollar reward for information leading to the
40:51
Speaker 1: whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. It does not require an arrest
40:56
Speaker 1: or a conviction. One point two plus million dollar reward.
41:03
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off for tonight Good Night Friend, m
41:11
Speaker 2: HM