Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Assassination - Ep. 280 - Aspects Of Turtlenecks

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JFK Assassination - Ep. 280 - Aspects Of Turtlenecks · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

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And so my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you,
0:09
ask what you can do for your country. Cheers Joy and Joey Jomy
0:16
and then trumble Me Bame and Jumbomy and Joby Rock, Donky Jobrady, Trimblemy
0:22
and Joby show Me and tumble Mame and Jumbomy said Joby Rock Doggy job Wrathy.
0:32
Um, I would saying the r the bad chef Jack is enough going
0:50
and here we go, and here we go here muted, thank you sir
1:15
too. Hi, everybody, welcome to the Lone Cooming Podcast. This is
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episode number two and eighty. I am but one of your hosts, the
1:25
Triple B Rob Clark, and along with me, as always, is the
1:29
sexy Beast from the Northeast, Joey Scarsbarelli. I like that like that name.
1:34
Did you just go? I did hop your head? I saw that
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sweet looks like a fairly recent haircut. Man. You're looking smooth, yes,
1:45
yes, that is true. Gotta keep it fresh. You know good?
1:49
How are you? How are you doing? Sir? I am glad
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it's effing Friday. I know that this has been a hell lasia this week
2:00
for your boy, and I'm happy to be here though, in our safe
2:05
space here at the Licoming Podcast, and happy to see your smiling face again
2:09
and all of our peeps. Let's say hi to everybody. Joe, we
2:14
got south to West in the house. Paul Vines is here, what's up?
2:17
Paul Bungle is in the house. Colleen, my rocket queen is in
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the house. Hello, mister Jack Taylor PSV Hello Bungo Colleen. Everyone else
2:32
Southwest had me worried there for a second, I didn't see any a soul
2:37
in the comments, and then all of a sudden, here they go.
2:39
So that's good. That's good. They have their alarm set. Hey,
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it's all good. As long as we're not preaching to a sea of no
2:50
one, it's all good. So how is your week been, mister Joe.
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It's been good. It's been good. You know, a little hectic
3:00
on on my end myself, but you know, just keep on carrying on.
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I enjoyed quick Hits last week, and yes, that was a fun
3:14
one. I laughed a lot. I was having trouble, as did I.
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I was having trouble keeping my mouth like not laughing while my girlfriend was
3:23
sleeping, and I did not do a good job for those who know a
3:30
lot of Michael Jackson songs. It was very enjoyable and very d lived to
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go back and forth like that and always a good time on the quick Hits
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with our buddy Doug. Yes, and as you may have noticed, folks,
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Roger was kind enough to redo the intro song for us and snaz it
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up a little bit. Get our names in there are full Jesus our guy
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given names, I guess, and uh not just be the triple B and
4:04
Jobie. But it sounds great. We got a new outro as well,
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So thank you Roger, our music producer here at the Lungdoming Podcast. And
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as always, thank you to these folks. Oh my gosh, yes,
4:21
yes, yes, Silk City Hot Sauce, Baby Joe, I'm telling you
4:28
they hooked your boy up. Well they give you. Oh man, you
4:32
should have seen the care package I got from Jeff ooh about twelve bottles worth.
4:41
I mean, I'm good for at least six months, bro oh.
4:46
And it's all flavors that I've never tried before. So whoa I'm gonna tell
4:50
you right now. So far my favorite is black Honey, bud m black.
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Wait, that's different than the other honey, the other honey hot hobbit
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no hot syrup, hot syrup. Yes, I have that one. Yes,
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my girlfriend likes that with pancakes. Yeah, this is uh what did
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I say? Um, honey something, honey something. But it is a
5:21
beast my god. It comes in a small bottle that you know you're screwed
5:27
in. They won't even give you a full size bottle this stuff because you're
5:30
gonna burn your face off. Well, it's it's it's it's almost like a
5:36
a hot barbecue sauce taste to it. It's very delicious. The hamburgers,
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yes, uh. The psp Odyssey actually just asked what do you eat them
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on. I actually have different sauces for different things, Like I'll have a
5:55
different sauce for say a tacos right, like the like the green one.
6:00
And I'll have one my favorite honey hot hot banaro, usually on eggs.
6:04
But then if I'm having something barbecue, eh, I will have one of
6:11
the more barbecue tasting ones. And thank you Paul, right, and Roger
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and Doug are in the house. What's up, fellas? Hello Warren from
6:19
the UK, and thank you Paul for your kind donation. We truly are
6:29
apprecia ate it, but yeah, dude, I put we put it on
6:33
eggs. You spice up your chili with it. I use it in nacho
6:40
cheese dip along with some you know, some salcea and nacho cheese. Put
6:44
a couple of drops of that stuff in there. Boy, Yeah, you
6:49
can grade that ship to the moon. But it is delicious and highly recommend.
6:56
Grab yourself some. You can find the link in the description of this
7:00
show. So Joe suph without further ado, I have an update, sir,
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Yes, yes, what is don for those of you and I actually
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I had a couple of messages for folks who can't find our missing episode.
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It is over at locals and it's free for everybody to watch. You just
7:21
have to join our our little community there. It's free to join and you
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can watch the missing episode two seventy eight, which is called Swatting Flies,
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which is where we destroyed Corey Hughes and the movie JFKX. So if you
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haven't checked that out yet, head over there. We couldn't do it on
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YouTube because of well you'll see why. But yeah, yeah, we're off
7:47
flies. Yeah, I have an update from the movie creators. Uh so,
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yeah, buckle up this because this one is a doozy Joe. I
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mean, and you know how we destroyed the movie, right, yes,
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right, here we go you and you you hid this from me, so
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I do not know what's coming. I did. This is all a surprise
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for you and Joe, So here you go. Boom. This is a
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clip from Raised by Giants. You can listen to all their content at Forbidden
8:22
Knowledge, dot News and all podcast platforms. Just click the link in the
8:26
description to get access to all their content. Now, what's the news?
8:31
Jay, give us the tea? Because this is what I've been seeing in
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every interview we've done together, on every show that we've done. First of
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all, Joe, this guy rider Lee has the most annoying for coda sounding
8:45
voice I've ever heard of my life for a podcaster, but it's just gradingly
8:50
annoying. But yeah, I just had to say that, Yeah, let's
8:52
continue. I can't talk. What as a terrible radio voice? Like some
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one said, I can't talk? So yeah, we open our movie jfk
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X with why hasn't all of the JFK files been released? And I said
9:11
it since the beginning that the reason it's not because of UFOs or advanced technology,
9:18
or that the CIA or the MOB was involved, and of course they
9:22
were, but it's because of what we have in our film. So they
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go ahead and let everybody know what. You know, Well, I heard
9:31
from a person who's well connected. I don't want to say his name,
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but pretty much everybody knows who he is, that Trump had seen our film
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and he told the person that told our friend that that's what I saw in
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the files. Basically, that was his sentence, That's what I saw in
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the files. So in the Trump file, in the JFK files that Trump
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decided not to release, he saw what's in our film. And it makes
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you wonder if the persecution he's up against right now isn't somehow related. And
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because here's the thing. When they rated mar A Lago, they were looking
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for something specific he had taken specifically, and they didn't find it, and
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you know, you gotta wonder what was it? Right? And you know,
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if I was president, I would take you know, if I had
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access to the files, I could take him, and he could because he
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has that job as job of president. He could take files home with him.
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I would take the most important files with me, you know, the
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ones that I could release if I ever need to, if I get into
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legal trouble, say right, So, you know, I think there is
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some kind of relationship between it. I think that they were looking for something,
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and I think it had to do with the JFK thing, because right
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after the mar A Lago raid, Biden came out what ten days maybe and
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said, no, we're never releasing these files ever. So you know there
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is a time thing between the two events. So I don't know. I
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think that's what it is. And by the way, and I'm going to
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try to have this guy on my show reality Check on YouTube. I got
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an email from a guy who's knows a guy in Dallas who was a JFK
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researcher who wrote a book and made a documentary and based on the exact thing
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that our movie's about. So if somebody else saw is what I'm trying to
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say, and that makes me happy, that doesn't make me sad. I
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want more people who've seen it to come forward because because it's so obvious,
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that's why, and it's they're coming. But I knew somewhere in the ether
12:18
that there had been someone somewhere maybe I'd heard about it or something I don't
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know, but I knew somehow there was somebody in the past who must have
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seen this and saw it went oh my god, this is what's going on.
12:30
And you know, and this guy supposedly wrote a book, but nothing
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neither got released, the book nor the documentary ever got released. But this
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person is trying to dig up both for me so I can see it and
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read it. That would be incredible, and then also tracking down what happened
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to him and figuring out the timeframe of when it was made, when it
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was written, when the documentary was made. Yep. Really interesting to see
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why it didn't get released. Where the person is now, you know,
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because uh, that might be what we're looking at in our future too,
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But I don't think so. I think it's the cats out of the bag.
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Everything is all right. And it's interesting too because if this is true
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and the former president saw our film and confirmed it, I mean that speaks
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volumes to what we've created and what we've done, and it just proves that,
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you know, that we've been correct and all the people that don't like
13:28
it, or all the people that think that it's nonsense and that we're just
13:33
making stuff up, like watch the movie. See the evidence that we provide.
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We provide you evidence, We show you what's going on, and there's
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things about the documentary that you just cannot deny. Yeah, and uh,
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you know it's uh uh all right, enough of this ship. Yeah,
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yeah, it's great. Team. My brain hurts. Jack. This guy
14:05
is Jay Weedner. You may have heard of him before. He did like
14:09
a special on like the Kubrick Faking the moon landing type thing or something.
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Yeah, Stanley, he's the old guy talking. The annoying guy talking.
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Is Rider Lee, his buddy who has a podcast called Raised by Giants on
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Corey. Here's a little network there. But again, if you want to
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know the backstory to all this, head over to Locals and you can see
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the missing episode of two seventy eight and it'll give you a lot more background
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on everything. But I just had to share, Yeah, I just had
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to share that with everybody, just to let everybody know that Donald Trump has
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seen their film, folks, and he corroborated it. He said, that's
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what's in the files. That's what he saw in the files, the missing
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files that haven't been released yet. It's silly, and thank me, thank
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you, Colonel Rev. You are consistently the man. I wanted to thank
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you for that because Rob was talking, I think you missed it, but
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yeah too to Trump, had you missed it? No, I did not
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miss it. So Trump before he got elected in twenty sixteen, said Joe,
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And that's why I'm just it's my look. What can I say?
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Maybe it's the cut Trump next, Yeah, he said he was going to
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release all the files, and I believe his camp his campaign run up in
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twenty sixteen. But then one once shown the files, and I think this
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came from Rudy Giuliani. H Once he saw what was in them, decided
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he couldn't release them. Okay, that regardless of what I, you or
16:06
anyone thinks about Trump, that is bullshit. He was fucking bullied by the
16:15
intelligence services, like every other president has since JFK and maybe to a little
16:26
extent Nixon. But he was bullied, but he pushed back a little bit,
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but a little bit, little teeny wee bit. But that is that
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is him covering his own ass. And now he says he's going to release
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them again, and I do probably think he would on his second term.
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But then again, uh, you know how there's that joke. In the
16:52
first day, when the president walks in, they showed them the actual of
16:55
Brewer film just to be like, here, we just want to let you
16:57
know, sir, and just walk out, just to be like stay in
17:02
your place. Well, now that everybody knows that, I mean, Jay,
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the film's out, Joe, So if that's right, files, he's
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going to release them because everybody already knows, right what I'm saying. It's
17:11
a joke, right, the truth it's the same, right. Uh.
17:15
And and I think he was intimidated, and he was. He didn't release
17:22
them. He didn't stick to his word, and uh, I don't know.
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I don't how would I expect him to stick to his word on the
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second time around, Like, I can't based on what he did, what
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his decision was during the time that it was supposed to be released, right
17:41
twenty seventeen? Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, So that's enough
17:48
of that. What do we miss in the comments? What did Doug say?
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I don't know, it's been a while back. I think they were.
17:57
They were They're just chatting at themselves in the section, and that's that's
18:02
great. We'd love to see that. So, Joe, I believe you
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have some timely news about a fellow researcher or exposure of some kind of truth
18:18
possibly who recently passed on into the next realm. So please share with everyone,
18:26
if you will, that story. Yeah. I woke up this morning.
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I just happened to check the Education Forum and found out that researcher.
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Don't ask me what generation James, also known as more commonly Jim. Here
18:48
we go, Rob Coachen Hour, John d D D Angel know, No
19:02
Goshener, goshen hour, No, what is that number? Like coke cocin
19:11
hour, cocan hour, Okay, Jim cokinaur cocan hour, And uh,
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he has a very interesting I mean pronounce. The only reason I know that
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Joe is because I had a teacher in high school named mister Cour and we
19:25
called him yeah, and people are familiar with my pronunciation. Uh sometimes issues
19:33
so obviously no disrespect to the man. And we wanted to talk a little
19:41
bit about, uh, how he was tangentially evolved involved in the UH jfk
19:49
assassination in talking with UH Secret Service agent Elmer Moore, and there's some very
20:00
interesting stories that he tells and we have uh ironically, Rob, you covered
20:08
some of this a few episodes ago. Ironically, I did yes you hm,
20:19
no, I uh, I knew it was just a very forgettable episode
20:25
of folks. I guess no, I don't. I don't think it was
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forgettable. I think it was uh complicated, mhm, not complicated, but
20:38
it's not the easiest, as you'll see, not the easiest thing to put
20:45
together together. Hold on here, that's just nice. A lot of he
20:52
said, she said, bulls, you know what I mean, right,
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and a lot of a lot of here like objection, hearsay type of thing.
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Hold on, I'm bringing up now. I apologize, and yes,
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this was your thumbnail for that episode. Elman Moore is on the right,
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and that is hosty in the middle there. Elmer Moore was a secret Service
21:22
agent from nineteen forty five. He actually was one forty three, then joined
21:27
the Coast Guard Intelligence for two years, which is interesting. I didn't know
21:32
they had a Coastguard Intelligence and retired in nineteen seventy six and was assigned to
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Dallas. They have to know where all the sharks are, Joe at all
21:41
times yep. In November of nineteen sixty three, but ironically, he claimed
21:49
that he was in San Francisco at the time, which is really interesting.
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He's most commonly known and to have a led to have threatened doctor Malcolm Perry
22:02
at Parkland Hospital to let him to convince him to say that throat the neck
22:08
room wound could have either been a frontal or a wound from behind. It
22:15
would be hard to tell. And where this researcher comes in, I'm gonna
22:26
call him mister Jim developed a rapport with Elmoor the Gooch, the Gooch in
22:37
nineteenth that's perfect and night, starting in nineteen seventy up until about nineteen seventy
22:44
two, and had phone conversations with him, corresponded with him, and eventually
22:52
just went to his office one day and talked to him for five hours.
22:56
And Rob talks a lot about that on his episode number two fifty four.
23:03
But ironically, of course it's always comes up. Elman Moore said, if
23:11
you really want to figure out what happened, follow the money and look into
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a guy named James Hubert Martin. He didn't say Herbert and Marina's trust fund
23:23
Martin. He might have said Hubbitt, but he's pronounced it hebbit, Yes,
23:27
hebbot Martin, Yes, And he was very Uh, you know,
23:33
there's a lot of money flowing around there. Hold on, let me stop
23:36
that. And uh, you know there's a lot of money flowing and you
23:40
know, we talked about how Marina had you know, seven hundred grand and
23:44
purchasing power in that account in that document a few episodes ago, we talked
23:48
about a skim in how much other people were taking from that. You can
23:56
imagine a scenario where the Secret Service who let Marina and family into the custody
24:04
of mister Hubert Martin might be that maybe they they didn't get their share price.
24:15
I mean, I don't know why you would tell why you would kind
24:18
of mention that, but it's not a not a crazy situation to an envision,
24:29
to be honest. And so he stated he was actually in San Francisco,
24:37
as I had said. But I found a couple of HSA documents.
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One has to do with an interview of his wife Annie Ruth on your right,
24:47
which happened on ten twenty seven eighty any route, you know, maybe
24:56
and written down is something very interesting. I would know the Goonies, man,
25:06
I always reference bro and don't even say you've never seen the Goonies.
25:10
I will shut this livestream down right now I have. I'm just not like
25:17
on a level of like I can quote the Sopranos, you know what I
25:21
mean. Like, it's just Colleen and Oregon would be very upset if you've
25:26
not seen the Goonies. Okay, well, how about this, I will
25:29
rewatch the Goonies just for her, Okay and continue sir. Yeah, and
25:34
you said Annie Ruth's thinking, Baby Ruth. Okay. So it's just interesting
25:40
that it says eyewitness to assassination, assassin assassination and on the left hand side
25:49
on the bottom. I don't know if you can see this because we have
25:52
a little banner, but it says transcript is available number file zero five blah
25:59
blah. More was eyewitnessed to the assassination slide one thirty two minutes in,
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which is the same slide number they have in his wife's folder as well.
26:15
So what was the Gooch doing? Well, he was corresponding with his secret
26:22
service buddy and mister Moore, and was also corresponding with mister Harold Wiseberg,
26:30
and I'm going to show you how he was kind of I don't know,
26:44
my dear, trying to see see I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm just
26:56
trying to read this here. Oh, if you want to, it's not
26:59
that hard. Actually, Okay, that's okay, Yeah, I'm sorry.
27:08
Yeah, And uh, it's essentially how they're talking about perhaps the mill Teer
27:17
Miami tape dialogue might loosen him up, and they're talking about showing that tape
27:30
to someone. They're trying to get an AFFI David signed for. And this
27:37
is a letter. So like I had mentioned, it might be that guy
27:42
Clarence you were talking about. Yes, Uh, it wasn't Clarence, but
27:51
it was the Black Secret Service agent and in uh Seattle was it Washington?
27:57
He be known clearance. Yes, that sounds good. And essentially, so
28:06
in the beginning of what I'm trying to show here is the beginning of nineteen
28:08
seventy one, elmer More and Gooch are going back and forth saying and this.
28:18
You know, it's kind of hard to tell because of course elbow More
28:22
didn't sign it. Elmer More, right, it's a typed letter. It
28:30
says thanks, and that's it. Like he's not going to do this could
28:36
be easily faked by correct correct so so we have to keep that in consideration.
28:42
I have better than the mil teer tape, but can't use I can
28:47
show because I believe if I'm remembering correctly, it's all coming back to me
28:52
now. Joseph, yes, that Hosty had told More that World had been
29:00
working for the FBI as a paid informant. I do believe that was the
29:07
gist of what Jim Cokaner was saying that Elmer Moore told him. M hmm,
29:15
but I could be mistaken. It's been a very long time since they
29:18
did the episode. But I believe that's the gist of it. You are
29:22
correct, You are correct, and so unfortunately he passed. He did do
29:34
a virtual The Gooch a virtual presentation at Lancer this year, and was also
29:45
one out of the Blank episode Yeah shout Out Robbie episode one and fifteen Boom.
29:55
But at some point the Gooch seems to really piss off Elmer Moore,
30:07
and Elmer Moore's letters start to become more and more hostile. I'm gonna go
30:18
skip to the last paragraph. You have two good sources of information, and
30:22
you've jeopardized them both and may have already ruined the information you have gotten,
30:26
and certainly have what consummates stupidity done everything A man can do to guarantee it's
30:32
misuse. You did this knowing you should not have. After it's too late,
30:40
you tell me about it. I knew that you would be seeing Sprague
30:45
before your letter reached here. And this is like four years before the church
30:51
committee. Uh. And you refer to the committee rob in your in the
30:56
in the episode is a different Spraye, different Richard Spragg they're referring to here.
31:03
Oh I'm sorry. Okay, there's Richard the researcher and there's Richard HC.
31:11
Guy. They're two totally different people. Okay, well, yeah,
31:15
it does not specify which which one. It just does break so uh and
31:22
pre hca, nobody would have known who the hell that guy it was.
31:25
But right, the researcher was active in the sixties and seventies and stuff.
31:32
Right, so, mister elber Moore was, you know, in Dallas interviewing
31:38
Ruby. That's pretty common information. But one thing I found very interesting was
31:45
that when Jack Ruby died, they left him in the custody of a secret
31:52
serviceman and that person was Elmer Moore, and he was you know, if
31:57
you have a guy who can be trusted, what do you do? You
32:01
stick with him and I think Elmer Moore was a company guy, and whether
32:12
everything mister Gooch had said regarding what he said about JFK being you know,
32:23
a trader and them having books from the Depository signed by Roy Trully, which
32:32
she did say, I listened to it this morning and still had that hate
32:40
in nineteen seventy one, you're talking eight years later. This is way before
32:46
those investigations would start to pop up. Maybe they felt they were invincible and
32:52
some stupid college hippie guy, which the Gooch was at the time, they
33:00
found him funny and they talked to him. And yeah, a lot of
33:07
people hated this guy right here, a lot of people for many different reasons.
33:12
So it's not out of the ordinary for even secret service people to hate
33:15
this guy right here. Yeah, just how to interject that, Joe.
33:22
Yeah, So I think, you know, he did a lot of good
33:25
research. He talked to Lavelle and a lot of other witnesses as well,
33:31
and you know, I think he was a good researcher, and regardless of
33:46
whatever thoughts any of us might have, we should thank him for his work
33:52
and his contributions to this case. And we do hope you rest in peace.
33:58
Yes, and now, Joe, would you please answer Betty's question?
34:05
Uh, go back to the two hour James Herbert Martin video. It's long.
34:10
Yes, we did a whole episode on James Herbert Martin. He was
34:17
essentially Marina's babysitter after the assassination until the time of the Warren Commission hearings in
34:24
DC. Definitely a lot more than that as well, if you know what
34:29
I'm saying, And a whole lot more than that, quite possibly, And
34:35
it's very interesting. So I would just we have a lot of stuff if
34:39
you go back to the under Our channel. I believe it's all in the
34:46
live section. Yes, you have to go. You have to click on
34:49
the live tap. You have the live section. The videos are just pre
34:52
recorded videos. You have to go to the lives to catch stuff out.
34:55
But I think you can click on podcasts and then click on the long Guman
34:59
and it'll show everything there. So all together, James Sherper Martin is a
35:05
fascinating character. He uh huh, mind blowing and when you watch the episode,
35:15
you'll you'll understand and a lot of the bungles, I don't I don't
35:19
think it was just because you know, it was a Yankee cowboy thing.
35:22
I think it was because of his policies and his good looks, and his
35:27
hot wife and his perfect little family and his blue blood and his religion and
35:36
lots of factors just made this guy easy to not like, you know,
35:42
be a pigs and all that jazz and you know, you name it.
35:46
He was on a lot of people's list. And the first Catholic president too,
35:52
yeah, which a lot of people did not like. First Irish Catholic,
35:57
right right, so first in a lot of ways. And that's one
36:05
of the issues with trying to figure this whole thing out, is that he
36:08
did have so many enemies and so many possible people that could be you can
36:15
make a circumstantial case for yeah, exactly, all right, Jay, are
36:20
you ready to move on to what I got? Yeah, yes, sir.
36:25
I came across an hsca investigation of William Turner, who was the He
36:35
was a former FBI agent, He worked with a Garrison investigation. He was
36:40
behind the Ramparts magazine, and he was able to interview many, many,
36:46
many many people associated with the case. And I came across an hsca investigation
36:52
of his lost manuscript that never got published. So On December twenty second,
37:01
nineteen seventy seven, John Hornbeck, Patricia Orr, and Betsy Palmer traveled to
37:07
the home of William Turner in San Rafael, California to interview mister Turner and
37:15
review his files which he was accumulated or which he has accumulated in connection with
37:21
the book that he is writing on the assassination of President Kennedy. Now,
37:24
he never did write a book about the assassination of President Kennedy. He wrote
37:29
a book about the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy. So this book never
37:34
came out, and it was entitled. His manuscript was entitled The Cuba Project,
37:40
and it dealt extensively with Oswald in New Orleans. The activity centered around
37:45
five point forty four Camp Street in New Orleans and Oswald's connection with the Cubans
37:51
in New Orleans. He was also working on an area involving Jack Ruby and
37:55
his possible connection with organized crime. And a chapter by chapter summary of the
38:00
manuscript is contained in section B of the files that we are going to go
38:06
through here and check out. So let's see. In addition to the manuscript,
38:15
we brought back notes on the following subjects. The bio, Paul Affair
38:21
interview, Notes with Robert K. Brown, r Abaco Island, Martin FX
38:27
Casey interview, Andrew st. George interview, Fred L. Chrisman file,
38:34
George Higginbottom interview interview. Notes about David Ferry from the John Ireon interview Never
38:42
Heard of That interview, Notes on Lauren Hall, miscellaneous handwritten Turner notes.
38:52
Our interview with Turner was far arranging as we attempted to touch upon the many
38:57
different areas that he has researched to date. Some of the points are listed
39:02
below. Let's see through Philippe di Diego. I don't know, I don't
39:14
know about that. Turner was able to get some information on Operation forty.
39:17
Di Diego had gone to an intelligence school at Fort Benning prior to the Bay
39:22
of Pigs. He had gained more than recent ariety following his indictment in connection
39:27
with the Daniel Ellsberg break in. He told Turner about forty, a spin
39:31
off group of the twenty five six Brigade which has to coordinate the political transition
39:36
after the removal of Castro in the invasion, which of course never happened.
39:40
Members of this group included Colonel Piedro who was also said to be in contact
39:45
with Carlos Bregier and Joaquin san Jenis, who reputedly was with the CIA and
39:51
is alleged by Frank Sturgis to be his CIA contact officer. E. Howard
39:57
Hunt is also supposed to have been in charge of this group. So that's
40:00
your operation forty Santanada's let's see. Let's get to the good stuff here,
40:09
folks. This is a massive file. He talks a little bit about Braiding
40:22
or Braiden, Okay. Following the assassination, Turner did a motor vehicle check
40:27
to track down Jim Braiden and located him in an office in Beverly Hills.
40:31
A colleague of Turners named McNabb went to the office to check it out and
40:36
found that he was receiving mail there. This information was turned over to Peter
40:39
Noyez, who subsequently investigated the Braiden connection rather thoroughly. Braiden is the list
40:45
who had been connected with the LA Police Department Intelligence and the Internal Revenue Service
40:50
Intelligence did not know that Jesus Yeah Secret Service related intelligence Fred Lee Chrismin.
41:01
Turner was interested in Chrismin because of his physical similarity to one of the tramps
41:07
in his association with the Old Orthodox Church and Thomas Beckham. He found that
41:13
Chrisman had been living with a retired Army colonel named White, who was involved
41:17
with worldwide advertising in Seattle, Washington. To Turner, it seemed that Christmin
41:23
was involved in an intelligence operation. Garrison received an anonymous letter during the course
41:29
of his investigation which pointed to Chrismin and claimed that Christman was traveling between Seattle
41:32
and New Orleans all the time. It was further alleged that Chrisman carried a
41:39
diplomatic passport that he claimed to have received through a congressional committee. He also
41:45
reportedly was connected with Sergio or Kasha Smith, he had been in the Air
41:49
Force. Chrismin died in seventy five. Beckham, with whom Chrisman was connected
41:53
with, a courier for the anti Castor of groups and acquainted with David Ferry
41:58
McNabb, a soldier or Fortune who works with Turner also notes also has notes
42:04
on Chrismin and White. McNabb lives in Saint Helena, California. Bradley Ayres,
42:14
I don't know if anybody's heard of that name. He's I've always wanted
42:16
to read his book called The War That Never Was. Bradley Airs was an
42:23
Army intelligence officer who claims that he was utilized by the CIA in their anti
42:29
Castro efforts. Ayers says that he was sent to Miami in the spring of
42:32
sixty three and given a cover under the name of Daniel Williams at the Paragon
42:37
Corporation. Turner also mentioned that Samosa acquired a vessel called Rex from this company.
42:45
Airs implicates Johnny Rosselli in a much more active role in the anti Castro
42:50
activities, operating out of Point Mary on Wooderman Bay or Wideman Key sorry close
42:55
to Key Largo. A Cuban named Julio, who Turner believes was Julio Batista,
43:01
was there. Airs says Rosselli was called the Colonel and used the team
43:06
on the Key for his missions. Airs also writes of a drinking buddy of
43:09
Rosselli's named Wes, who was also with Army Intelligence. Jesus for mafia guy
43:19
like Rosselli. He sure hung out with a lot of Feds, a lot
43:23
of CIA. It's just so. Gordon Campbell, also known as Keith Randall,
43:32
is named as CI man at gm Wave. Bradley Airs Is in the
43:37
above mentioned book describes a meeting with Ted Shackley in February of sixty four in
43:40
which the Johnson administration authorized the operations of Manuel Artemey and attempts to overthrow the
43:47
Castro government. Airs was called in to brief art to May on everything he
43:52
knew. The meeting allegedly took place at a VIP safehouse on a golf course
43:57
near Coral Gables. The briefing was erupted by two Cuban visitors and Ardemae escorted
44:02
them to the library. Airs overheard an argument between the two men regarding money
44:07
that was supposed to be hidden on the island a pirate's layer on Point Mary
44:12
is the point where the money was supposedly hidden. Joe, Yeah, so
44:17
should we go. Turner spoke briefly regarding Ozmit Moody, stating that he used
44:24
Howard Hughes's money for the Triple A group in the early eighties, as was
44:30
the apparent owner of the island on which the money and arms were hidden.
44:35
So this goes into you know, Howard Hughes, Johnny Roselli, Robert May,
44:42
Hugh, you know you name it. Next up. They talk a
44:45
little bit about Carol Jarnigan, who have done a couple of shows involving He
44:51
was a lawyer in Dallas who claimed to have overheard Ruby and Oswald talking to
44:58
the Carousel Club, and the way that Turner describes him is a witness that
45:04
Turner feels may merit another look. Jarnigan is a lawyer from Texas, a
45:09
graduate of SMU, a chess champion, brilliant in quotes. According to Turner,
45:17
Johnigan wrote a letter to the FBI after the assassination describing an event a
45:22
llegis to have taken place on October third, nineteen sixty three, at Jack
45:27
Ruby's club, where Jarnigan had taken a girlfriend. While they were waiting to
45:30
be seated, a homosexual arrived wearing a windbreaker and identified himself as Oswald.
45:38
Joe Jarnagan said. The man said he had just gotten in from New Orleans
45:47
and was overheard talking about Robert Kennedy. Oh my god, I just got
45:52
in from New Orleans. Damn that Robert Kennedy. FBI dismissed the story,
46:00
although Jarnigan took a lot of detective tests folks and passed so. Another guy
46:10
that Turner was interested in was a fellow by the name of Ronnie Kerr.
46:15
An interview in early sixty seven revealed that Carer had met Sergio Orcascha Smith in
46:20
December of sixty one when he came to Kerr's office to raise money for the
46:23
Cuban Revolutionary Front also known as the CRC. Ronnie, Yeah, I've never
46:31
heard this name. Yeah. This led to the formation of the Crusade to
46:36
Free Cuba that was induced to head up the drive where Gil Mellon as vice
46:43
president of the Whitney Bank in Carlo's Grimadier, an accountant who kept records for
46:47
the Cuban groups. The money was used to finance many different things, including
46:52
acquisition of PT boats, etc. The Crusade lasted three months but was a
46:57
failure. Care says he lost ten grand and that son of a bitch,
47:00
Sergio Arkansia Smith pocketed most of it. Now, for those of you paying
47:07
attention at home, thank you, John. You are the man, sir,
47:10
Thank you. The offices for the CRC were above Guy Banister's office in
47:20
the Balter Building in New Orleans, Okay. So Arkasha went to Mexico around
47:28
July or August of sixty two under an assumed name, with a Nestor Marquez
47:32
Diaz, an attorney and economists from Algiers, Louisiana, and a teacher at
47:37
Nichols College. Care was impressed with the veracity and character of one Carlos Kierroga.
47:47
Ki Roga had worn care early on in the crusade not to trust that
47:52
sneaky son of a beat Sergei or Goshia Smith. Mayor Walter Shiro had also
48:00
warned Ronnie care about Arcasha. Arkasha disappeared in late sixty two, remembered to
48:05
have gone to Miami and later Houston and Dallas. He had been working on
48:09
the Pan American Life Insurance Company account when he left. A guy named Ernesto
48:15
Rodriguez was said to be the leader of the anti Arcasha faction. Now him
48:22
and his brother also claimed to have been meeting with Oswald at some point.
48:28
They were service players. Arkasha had mentioned a guy Banister on occasion that all
48:35
their cared never saw the two of them together. Arkasha had told him about
48:38
driving a truckload of plastic explosives from Huma, Louisiana to New Orleans. Prior
48:44
to Carers meeting Arcasha, Yes, Sir it's Homa Louisian, Homol Louisa,
48:52
Homo Louisiana. Do you want to know why? Why? Because when I
48:58
was in Liked school, and you know how you take those middle school trips
49:01
to Washington, I met a girl from Homa, Louisiana, and my dad
49:08
and h and my stepmom took me down to New Orleans and I took a
49:15
Greyhound bus down to Homa, Louisiana and I met up with her. Apparently,
49:21
Colleen, it's about who's telling the story, apparently, so that I'm
49:28
just funny that nickname came up. But I have heard that name, but
49:34
yes, And also Colleen asked, I thought Caro Carol bombed the detector tester.
49:42
You just put that up? I did, okay, car said Lee.
49:47
Harvey Oswald once applied for a job when Caer was working at the Sigalley
49:52
building. Oswald came in one day about the time of the WDSU interview.
50:00
So apparently Oswalden applied for a job somewhere in New Orleans at the Sigai building
50:06
for something. Karra said he didn't know Ricardo Davis or Ferry. He vaguely
50:13
recalled the name Miguel Torres and runner for the crusade. He remembered Carlos Brignier,
50:19
Miro Cardona, Louis Sanchez, Louis Boudafil, and Tomas Compact new Manuel
50:25
Gill of the American Sugarcane Association. Gil had been formerly with Alpha sixty six
50:34
or the CIA. Kara thought, so now we get to Guy Banister,
50:37
Joe, and according to Turner, Guy Banister was connected with the Training camp
50:43
and now Jeers Louisiana. With Animo Diaz, he trained Cuban exiles for diversionary
50:49
activities to be conducted during the Bay of Pigs invasion. Turner, probably because
50:53
of both he and Banister had FBI connections, showed a good deal of interest
50:59
in Banister and felt that his activities in New Orleans in the early sixties indicated
51:04
that he Banister had connections with various intelligence agencies. I would concur from Shizzy.
51:17
Let's see next up he talks about you. Ever heard of Nellie Hamilton's
51:22
boarding house, Joe Eley Hamilton, I have not, sir, all right,
51:30
Well, Nellie Hamilton operated a boarding house at nineteen twenty five Southwest fourth
51:37
Street in Miami, in the heart of Little Havana Joe, where the freelance
51:43
adventurers such as Jerry Hemming, Little Joe Garman, Robert K. Brown,
51:49
William J. Dempsey, Martin Francis, Xavier Casey, etcetera, stayed in
51:52
the early sixties. Howard K. Davis put this as nicely as I can.
52:01
FBI snitch Howard K. Davis recalled the night Rolando Altiguro Massfur sent over
52:08
a truck to pick up a few of Nelly's boys as they were known for
52:13
an action. He also recalls the Knight, when six of them stole a
52:16
forty foot boat named the Polo and pulled a raid on Cuba. Guns for
52:22
this raid were supplied by Frank Sturgis. The raid was of course towarded because
52:29
Howard K. Davis was an FBI snitch, and apparently he's still alive.
52:34
Doug Doug is afraid to talk to him or talk about him, but I
52:37
will not. I will put his name in my mouth because we have the
52:40
documents. Howard, you can't deny it. So he was running with Hemming
52:45
and all these boys and reporting back everything to the to the FBI, so
52:50
all other raids. That's why nothing ever happened, right you know, they
52:54
get arrested before they could even go out. Half the time, Dick Watt
53:00
was among the borders, also Ed Collins, who repeatedly had ties to the
53:05
Canadian mafia. Nellie's was a kind of command post for these freelance action stars.
53:14
Let's see the hits that missed. So he talks a little bit here
53:25
about Bill Harvey. The CIA was dumped in June of sixty three as the
53:30
head of Cuban Task Force W and transferred to Rome Station as a result of
53:35
his clash with RFK over the missile crisis. Johnny Rosselli gives him a farewell
53:40
dinner. Roselli's poison pill plan to kill Castro had failed. He also was
53:49
using a sniper team based at a CIA safehouse at Point Mary on Upper Key
53:53
Largo. Captain Bradley Ayres, an Army officer, posted a jam wave recalled
53:59
it during an orientation tour of CIA facilities in May of sixty three. Rip
54:04
Robertson took him to Point Mary safe house for overnight's day airs, said Colonel
54:08
Johnny Rosselli was, like Rip Robertson, one of the few Americans authorized to
54:14
actually go on commando missions. Into Cuba, and Rip Robertson was a certified
54:20
bad MOFO operator, okay for sure, But was Johnny Rosselli? He's like,
54:28
wasn't he handsome? Johnny? Was he that type of operator? Apparently
54:32
he was man. He wasn't scared of nothing. So I don't know if
54:39
it was false Bravado or real Bravado. I don't know. But if Rip
54:45
Robertson said he's the same guy as me, that's pretty high speech. If
54:50
he if Rip Robertson said that, I will take Rip at his word,
54:52
yes, right, yes, this dage Robert Kennedy. I still believe the
55:00
CIA had discontinued its mafia plots, and CIA director John McCone had never learned
55:05
that they even existed. With Harvey and Rome. It was Dick Helms who
55:08
was keeping the lie on or keeping the lid on. Sorry. FBI learns
55:14
of CIA mafia. Lincoln also tries to penetrate it, but ROSSELLI would not
55:17
work with them. Mcohone learned of involvement in August when Chicago Sun Times reported
55:22
a CIA connection with Sam g and Conna. Helms convinces Macone that operation had
55:28
ceased before Macone had taken over. So there was a lot of back and
55:32
forth here with these mafia people in the CIA and the FBI. Can I
55:38
stop you absolutely? Can you? So? Are you saying that Roselli was
55:45
so dedicated to Harvey that he wasn't that helpful and cooperative with say Helms and
55:57
Macone. No, no, no, Zelle would not work with the FBI.
56:01
Oh FBI, Okay, okay, he was. Risselli was a big
56:06
fan of the CIA, right. Oh yeah, yeah, that's why I
56:09
want to clarify for me. I all came sniffing around about what was going
56:14
on. They wanted to work with Roselli, and he told him, you
56:16
know, he go screeze though my allegiances with these guys. Yeah, I
56:22
mean he threw a farewell dinner for William Harvey before he left the room.
56:27
So what's that tell you? Yeah, I mean they were tight, you
56:30
know, they were definitely tight. All right, Let's see here, Bungle
56:38
just said. Dave Martin wrote, h Harvey's got another Martin Martin of course,
56:47
and there was a Martin Francis you said earlier contained myself, but only
56:55
oh I got another one here? Oh my god. Something from the counterfeit
57:00
currency plan. A counterfeit scheme resurfaces, operating out of Baltimore, Maryland.
57:07
William Morrow and his wife were involved. They got financing from Lewis Burlanti.
57:12
And this is not the William Morrow that is active today out of Texas earlier.
57:17
This is the guy that read the book Betrayal and all that. They
57:22
contact a commercial printer in New York and met with a man named Martin.
57:27
General Taylor tries to persuade Burlonte to drop his financial support of Mario Coley,
57:32
but Burlanti refuses, and on the evening of August sixteenth, nineteen sixty three,
57:37
Burlanti and son Fred were killed in a plane crash. Mystery still surrounds
57:44
the circumstances. Reportedly had thirty million dollars aboard the plane as well. William
57:52
Martin meets with Coley and at the time plates were turned over. Martin,
57:57
a secret Service undercover operative arrests Coley, Moura and wife given suspended sentences,
58:04
and Coali convinced, are convicted and sentenced to two years. Coley supporters maintained
58:09
he was a victim of entrapment because he had not knuckled under to the Kennedy
58:15
administration arrest in October of nineteen sixty three, and Coli died in seventy five,
58:22
so you can't talk to him at this point. Sorry, sorry,
58:29
or depending one on seventy five the Church Committee either right. So I know
58:39
I've heard our buddy Doug and Larry Hancock talk about these folks, but they
58:46
come up. William Turner brings them up. These are the commando man Bebzy
58:50
man Beezy ma'am Beezy's Okay. They were led by Major Manuel Villafana and the
58:59
Commando's man. This is gonna be one of the words for me. The
59:04
Commando's man Beezy's were an elite group formed specifically to be a trial balloon to
59:09
test this nation's reactions to a renewed anti Castro movement, Trained at the CIA
59:15
Amphibious Base in Louisiana and quartered in a safe house in South Florida, subsized
59:23
subsidized solely by the CIA. One of the few married men in the group
59:29
was re Remigio Cuckoo RSA. Man Beezi's would mount a spectacular commando raid on
59:37
vital Cuban coastal installations. Press releases would be issued simultaneously in Guatemala and related
59:44
to Miami radio stations. Creation of Commando's man Beezy stemmed from discussions of Standing
59:50
Group during the spring of sixty three. Robert Kennedy expressed opinion that US needed
59:55
to do something against Castro, even though actions would not bring in down.
1:00:00
It was at this time that Harry Williams was still meeting with Hunt and McCord
1:00:05
to plan an expeditionary force to be based in the Dominican Republic, and ARTEMAE
1:00:10
was training troops in Central America. And on June and nineteenth, JFK authorized
1:00:16
a sabotage program aimed at petroleum facilities, excuse me, railroad and highway transportation,
1:00:23
electric power, communication lines, and manufacturing plants. It was aimed to
1:00:30
cripple Cuba's economy from the inside out. It was coupled with an effort to
1:00:36
develop internal resistance elements which could carry out sabotage from the inside. This is
1:00:40
first time CIA was allowed to target installations that had been previously American owned.
1:00:50
So very interesting stuff here from William Turner. One other thing I wanted to
1:00:57
touch on from Turner, and that is the the relationship between Castro's gun runner
1:01:05
Ray McCown, Okay and Oswald and Jack Ruby, so McCown was a known
1:01:12
gun runner for Fidel Castro. He was arrested in nineteen fifty eight and Carlos
1:01:16
Prio for smuggling weapons into Cuba for Fidel's Castro Revolution against Batista. McCown served
1:01:23
six months in jail, returned to Houston, and wished to stay away from
1:01:28
any further gun running activities. Turner suggested McCown was contacted by CIA and Miami
1:01:35
quote intelligence officers for various assignments. About a week after the Castro or a
1:01:40
week after Castro assumed power in Cuba, McCown was approached by Jack Ruby,
1:01:45
who wanted him to use his influence with Castro for the release of three persons
1:01:51
jailed in Havana. Turner discusses the alleged McCown Oswald contact of late August sixty
1:02:00
three, which was reported in the CBS's special report on the JFK assassination on
1:02:05
December seventh, nineteen seventy five, entitled Three Witnesses. Turner said CBS did
1:02:13
not air McCown's account of his Ruby contacts and no one asked him, but
1:02:16
a friend of his sam Neil corroborated his story about meeting with Oswald. Also
1:02:22
mentioned as a visit by George de mornshield to McCown soon after the Oswald visit,
1:02:29
in which de mornshield advises McCown not to take Oswald seriously. The story
1:02:35
involves a visit to McCown's home by Oswald and a Cuban McCown believed to be
1:02:39
quote named Hernandez. The two wished to buy four unregistered three hundred Savage semi
1:02:46
automatic rifles with telescopic sights. Turner suggests that these will be appropriately used in
1:02:53
hunting or assassination, but not for gorilla warfare. Turner then discusses Oswald's five
1:03:00
day trip to Mexico City, the photo mistakenly identified as Oswald by the CIA,
1:03:06
and the way the Warren Commission handled the entire episode. He also deals
1:03:10
with the Warren commission handling of the Silvia Odio incident and indicates both incidents indicate
1:03:16
impersonation of Oswald. Turner suggests two Oswald impersonations after his return from Mexico City,
1:03:24
one in Baton Rouge by a man giving his name as Oswald trying to
1:03:29
rent an apartment is contained in the Orleans Parish District Attorney Files interview of missus
1:03:35
Alvin McGee. The second incident reported in the Warren Commission involves the statement of
1:03:42
a Dallas car salesman who wrote Oswald's name down as a perspective customer after showing
1:03:49
him a car. Turner states unequivocally that Oswald could not drive, And we
1:03:54
talked about that on the show before as well, so you kind of get
1:04:00
an idea of where his book was going when he I don't know why he
1:04:09
never released it or never finished it, or what the deal was, but
1:04:12
it was important enough to send three or four investigators from the HSCA and fly
1:04:18
him out to California to talk to this guy and to go over his files
1:04:24
and his manuscript. I'd be interested to see all of these HSCA investigators notes
1:04:30
about this, you know, and see what they thought was important and what
1:04:36
they ever did with the information. But you know, I always liked reading
1:04:43
about and hearing interviews with William Turner. I think him being a former FBI
1:04:48
guy gives him a little bit more credibility as to his investigative skills and him
1:04:55
just not running away with a story, and he did a lot of very
1:05:00
important interviews with a lot of the names and people that you've all heard of
1:05:05
before associated with his case. I just thought it was interesting, so I
1:05:11
wanted to share it here with you guys today. So what do you think
1:05:14
about that, mister Joseph. That is fascinating and I yeah, I wonder
1:05:21
why it was not published, but definitely had some inside knowledge and of what
1:05:33
was going on in the Garrison investigation and would definitely be a very interesting raid.
1:05:41
Yeah. I mean, this guy, I think he lived up into
1:05:43
the into the two thousands. Let me do a quick, a quick little
1:05:51
search here, because I was like, man, this guy live forever.
1:06:00
William Waylon Turner, Yeah, he lived until twenty fifteen, Joe Wow.
1:06:11
Yeah, nineteen twenty seven to twenty fifteen. And regardless of whether or not
1:06:16
you put all your faith in his work or whatever, do live the fascinating
1:06:21
life and got to interview a ton of fascinating people. And yeah, that
1:06:29
was I wish we could have his manuscript, you know, but it's lost
1:06:34
apparently. Yeah, so at least the HSCA got to see it and take
1:06:40
notes and do what they wanted to do with it. So Yeah, Unfortunately,
1:06:47
too many things have been lost, and I fear things are continuing to
1:06:53
get lost, and you know, it's it sucks, but that's what And
1:07:00
so my fellow Americas, Shit, it's been one of them days. Did
1:07:10
I say that already? It's been one of those weeks? Yeah, answer
1:07:13
the outro. Sorry, Roger Screwing is totally un He created this beautiful melody
1:07:19
for us to talk over at the end of the show. Joe, great,
1:07:23
and wish everybody hope and prosperity. You have a fantastic Saint Patrick's Day
1:07:30
this weekend, folks, get out and party, drink some green beer,
1:07:32
throw one back for you boys, yep, and head over to locals.
1:07:38
And I've seen some questions about topics that you possibly want us to cover in
1:07:44
the future, that there would be the place to tell us about it,
1:07:49
and we can maybe do a segment. Not Joe promises he will research the
1:07:58
hill out of everybody's and we will eventually do a show on not at point.
1:08:04
Good no good suggestion, Oh, good suggestions. Okay, they're all
1:08:10
good suggestions from our peeps. We know who our peeps are, we know
1:08:12
who are not our peeps, but we do and We thank all our peeps
1:08:15
for showing up on this Friday night. You know who you are. We
1:08:21
call it out a lot of you, and we couldn't be happier that you're
1:08:27
joining us tonight. We will be back next week, of course, and
1:08:31
we have some interesting guests in the queue. We're going to try to do
1:08:38
like a guest a month and keep things fresh and stuff like that. So
1:08:46
damn it, Colonel rib you're coming through man, good lord, see now,
1:08:50
Jae, we can each have an extra beer this weekend courtesy Colonel rib
1:08:57
Man. Thanks appreciate that. Ode And we ran out of our outro Joe,
1:09:02
so we'll just say here, Roger, we need a littleer outro.
1:09:09
Bro. No, it's plenty long enough. Just Joe takes forever the former
1:09:13
sentence, It's all good. Thank you Jack coming through in the clutch.
1:09:17
At the end, you're demand, sir, which appreciated. You guys make
1:09:23
this damn fun show to do for you. We love it. We had
1:09:27
a great core group of folks here and uh yeah you uh you guys make
1:09:31
it worthwhile. So enjoy your weekend, folks, and we me and Joby
1:09:39
we'll see y'all next week. Same bad time, same bat channel. Lets
1:09:44
we tell you different before then, but anyway, that's it for us.
1:09:47
Thanks for joining us, folks. Peace peace, peace, peace, peace
1:10:00
Weedley's peace. I can only hope do