Latest / The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers / ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL: The First Investor in DEX (w/ Alain Nicod)

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ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL: The First Investor in DEX (w/ Alain Nicod) · The DEX Show: A Show for IT Change Makers

0:01
Welcome Item change Makers to the Deck Show with Tim Flower and Tom mcgra let's
0:07
get into it. Welcome back to the Deck Show. It is May,
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which not only means but it is getting a lot sunnier. It also means
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but it is Next Think twentieth anniversary celebration month. That's right. Next Think
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is twenty years old, if you can believe that. And whether you listen
0:28
to the Deck Show, as you obviously do, whether you go on the
0:31
dex Hub, whether you follow our social media, you will see tons of
0:34
content celebrating not only the incredible journey of our organization, but the incredible story
0:40
of digital employee experience itself. Stuff that looks back at where it comes from,
0:45
stuff that looks forward to where it's going. And there's really a lot
0:49
of exciting stuff planned. And we have a fantastic anniversary show for you today
0:54
with an amazing guest. I'm joined with as ever by Tim Flower. Of
0:59
course, Hi, Tim Hayden, Good Tom, how about yourself? Very
1:02
good man, very good. Happy next thing say to you? I should
1:04
say, you know likewise likewise yeah. And we are joined by Alan Nico,
1:11
founder and senior advisor at the Partners, and he was actually, Alam
1:17
was actually the first ever investor in Next Think history. So he's going to
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he's going to bring us all the way back to the very roots, the
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fascinating roots, as we'll hear of the organization, and we look forward to
1:29
hearing more about that momentarily. But first of all, welcome, Alan,
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beautiful to have you here, Thank you, thank you. I'm looking forward.
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It's a great, great anniversary, a really great anniversary. And if
1:42
people don't know, I think a lot of people might who listen to this
1:45
show. But Next Think actually starts with Pedro Bados, our founder CEO,
1:51
back at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, or the ep f L as
1:56
it's known locally in Lasanne, Switzerland, and I'm not if I'm not mistaken,
2:00
Alan, that's where you met him. But before we get into that,
2:05
maybe just just to first, we'll hear a little bit about yourself and
2:07
your career from your academic background and your experience as an investor. Well,
2:13
thank you very much. I started in a very classical way my career.
2:19
I was born and raised in Losane actually, so really where the next thing
2:23
was born. Also, I started doing studies in business school and undergrad and
2:30
grad, I did an NBA in Siad. I went to work for Arthur
2:35
Anderson for a while and then for McKinsey for a while. It was not
2:38
what I was thinking of doing at the beginning. I was always wanted to
2:42
be an entrepreneur, but for some reason I joined those companies and I didn't
2:45
regret it. It was a fantastic in total eight years of corporate career and
2:51
that was the end of my corporate career. After that, when I quit
2:54
McKinsey, I became an entrepreneur. First company was in the field of physical
3:00
medicine and sports medicine, and then I shifted attention to more the internet and
3:07
telecom and software businesses. Since then, I've been a bit of a jank
3:12
of all trades. I've invested in the multitude of different companies. I've been
3:15
a creator founder of a few. Also, I've been the CEO of a
3:20
few, so I've done a bit of everything in my life. And I
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met actually Pedro as the managing partner of a firm called Via Partners. We
3:30
do early stage investment in Switzerland, and that's how I came across him.
3:34
So that's where that had on that we came together, and I'm on me
3:39
at I have three children and I'm now a grandfather, which is quite quite
3:46
an experience too. Incredible. Congrats, that's great. And so you weren't
3:51
so going back to when you first met Pedro, and I think at the
3:53
same time you also met Patrick Herzog, co founder of next BNK and still
3:57
the Next BNK also to this day. So you weren't actually sort of at
4:00
the EPFL yourself. You were already an investor. Is that accurate? Tell
4:05
us about I was. I was running that that venture firm I called the
4:12
I Partners, but we had offices in the EPFL, so I was technically
4:16
speaking an office neighbor of Pedro. Pedro was one or two floors above us.
4:20
We were on the first floor, I remember, and I think he
4:23
was on the second or third floor in his office. So we came together
4:27
in that building and we're introduced by a great guy who I think next thing
4:31
owes a lot to is is el Lebreu. I don't know whether you're interviewing
4:36
him, but it's it's a wonderful person. He was in charge of tech
4:41
transfer and relations with investors on behalf of the EPFL, and he put me
4:46
in touch with Pedro and we also saw each other in the corridors obviously,
4:54
so you had an office there because it was just if you're an investor an
4:57
entrepreneur, it's a great place to pick up the new talent. I guess,
5:00
is that approximately right? Exactly exactly. It was part of our Part
5:04
of our job is doing the scouting and understanding what's going on. It's also
5:09
doing the networking. I think a big portion of our business is not only
5:14
spotting the right companies and putting some money in, it is also the whole
5:17
networking good that it goes around it to help them find talents, help them
5:21
find investors, understand what's going on beyond the hand on the pulse if you
5:27
want. And I did have an office in EPFL for twenty one years.
5:31
And actually the one of the shareholders of the fund that was running at that
5:36
time was the EPF z so the sister company or the sister school to EPFL
5:43
based in Zurich. They both belonged to the Federal Confederation, but they were
5:47
the shareholders, one of the founding shareholders on my fund. So I'm pretty
5:51
close to that whole academic world. In spite of not being a scientist myself,
5:57
so it's been a fun adventure with respect to that. Amazing and thinking
6:02
back to when you first met Pedro, do you have a clear memory of
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where that was, when that was, and how that conversation went about,
6:10
and what your first impressions were with him. My first I don't remember where
6:15
it was physically worked was in his office on mine or the coffee machine we
6:19
had in the middle that I don't recall, but I recall having met him
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based on on on the airba's recommendation, I thought, wow, this guy
6:29
is really interesting, you know, sort of of he comes from a very
6:33
academic background. He's he's been in Switzerland for that time, probably a year
6:39
or two, I don't know, and or maybe three years he was doing
6:44
his PhD work, and his courageous I mean, he's trying his company.
6:48
And I have a lot of admiration actually for in general in Switzerland, for
6:54
all those foreign students that come in and end up creating companies. I mean,
6:59
they they are the of the entrepreneurs in that country. And he was
7:01
a typical example. Young fresh, a lot of try, a lot of
7:04
energy, a vision, and and you know, just wanting to go forward.
7:11
And a lot of enthusiasm. So I do recall that first conversation,
7:15
and and we kept on talking regularly for for probably a year or two before
7:19
I invested, because first of all, I think we got it on well.
7:23
And secondly, it was an occasion for him to speak Spanish and for
7:27
me to speak Spanish, so that but also a fun aspect of it.
7:31
We we did communicate mostly in Spanish. At the beginning of our our endeavor.
7:38
I was going to just put him beforehand hand hand with mic over to
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Tim for a second, because always interested me. I think Pedro, you
7:45
know, as a postgraduate, as a as a student, how does I
7:49
sounded always sounds like when you speak to him, how does I quite family
7:51
set on academia? And then it was his own kind of innovation, discovery
7:58
of his own ability to innovate, him interested in the possibility of instead being
8:03
an entrepreneur himself. It's the impression I've always had anyway. I mean,
8:07
when was he when you knew him in that dynamic, do you know what
8:11
I mean? Was he was he still vacillating between the two possibilities, or
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did he seem quite already quite firmly focused on on entrepreneurship as a career path.
8:20
I think I think that step had been done, so he was the
8:24
next thing already existed, had been created. He was a man shareholder off.
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I think Patrick had a few shares of it too, and then I
8:33
think then detained Vincent and what's his never come remember it will come back,
8:39
another guy who joined right at the beginning, And I think he had done
8:43
that step, but the step he hadn't done it. That was fun in
8:46
our discussion, like we call that because we had it again and again and
8:50
again. It was should I be the CEO of that company or not?
8:52
And I was saying, you know, if you're an entrepreneur, you'd better
8:56
be your CEO and you'll see maybe in the future you'll step down or thought
9:00
or to the chairman shape or whatever. About the time being, I mean,
9:03
you're the one driving the thing, so might as well say say that
9:05
the steering wheel and drive the thing right. And that was a question that
9:11
he had on the regular basis saying I'm the real sure and I'm not sure
9:15
the right person, and maybe you should hire somebody and etcetera, etcetera.
9:20
That that discussion went on forever, and finally he decided to become to see
9:26
himself and that was the right decision. So Alan, I love the opportunity
9:33
to talk to somebody who's witnessed the change in the technology. Eighty percent or
9:39
more of the great next thinkers we have started after me, and they've got
9:41
a great perception of the product. But you were there from the very early
9:45
part of the of the technology. What are your recollections of that early tech?
9:50
Did you see it before it became a product? Talk about a little
9:52
bit about what you remember from the very early parts of the technology and what
9:56
impressed you. Well, it was is on on academic work that he had
10:01
done together with Patrick, and I remember they were showing me in a sort
10:05
of we can we can detect on a on an intranet a normal behaviors.
10:11
That was the whole pitch at the beginning. And so the next version is
10:16
what do you do with that? You know, so it's interesting what do
10:20
you do with it? And they said, well, there's a lot of
10:22
security breaches and issues that you can detect with that, which is true and
10:26
still is true to day, and and that I thought was was an interesting
10:31
thing. And then there was a fantastic gui the graphical user interface that I
10:37
think Patrick really masterminded. That was very attractive because it made that pretty complex
10:43
thing pretty simple and you could detect the issues and the and the things that
10:48
were not exactly right and uh that needed investigation and all the rest. I
10:54
thought, this is, you know, makes complicated things very simple, which
10:58
I think is a great merit in life. So that was the initial thing.
11:03
And at that time they had two customers. I think this prescription we
11:07
can talk about that. It was road X and Pictet, and I spoke
11:11
to that both of them, especially with the Pigta people because they were also
11:16
a shoolder eventually EPFs, but was also a sheld of the fund, and
11:20
it was saying it's interesting. I mean it took them time to become a
11:24
real customer because they are you know, very picky on their technologies and what
11:28
they do with the I T and whatever. But they thought it was really
11:31
interesting, so that it was very encouraging the talks with them. And at
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that time it was very much being to security, which ended up not being
11:39
the main value proposition, so it took them some time to pivot the pitch
11:46
and and and focus on other things where the product has a more imagiate value
11:52
for their clients. But it was very interesting. It was a very very
11:54
fun part of the of the life of the company. And it's neat to
12:00
look back over twenty years. You've witnessed some significant amount of change. What
12:03
are your what are your recollections or memories of some significant milestones over the twenty
12:09
years, both either with the relationship with the company or the development of the
12:13
technology. What do you see as some of the major milestones along the way
12:16
as obviously, I mean the first thing is, you know, find a
12:20
new find a new relevant uh you say, the positioning of the product and
12:26
the position that was, and it took a futuration. It's not like we
12:31
snapped the fingers and it happened. I mean it took. It took the
12:35
futurations. Then the fun thing was when we started getting the projects. I
12:39
think the biggest, the first seven digit project, if I remember correctly,
12:45
was the French Army of all things. I mean that was a weird thing.
12:48
I mean we had a we had the chairman of the board who was
12:52
also active in the company, Philip As, and a gang in France that
12:56
were very active in all those governmental and large enterprises, and they landed that
13:01
thing, which was the weirdest contract you could imagine at the time. You
13:05
know, for the Swiss startup to have to be entrusted by the by the
13:11
by the French army to do something really critical in their networks. And that
13:16
was that was the first big turn. So it was you know, it's
13:18
becoming serious, guys. Hey uh. And then obviously it's a complicated time.
13:24
So we had issues getting paid on time. And then we had to
13:28
do the bankers with the company because the cashrow was not working the way it
13:31
should have worked, because it was they were too slow in paying and et
13:35
cetera, et cetera. So that was the first big sort of industrialize the
13:39
product and make it big and and be able to set it to too large
13:43
clients. And then the next step is obviously when when the company starts growing,
13:50
some people grow up with the company. I think Pedro is a good
13:52
example, and he grew with a company. It was. It was a
13:56
joint at that time, and I was a it's a sizable thing and still
14:00
doing a very good job. Some others were I would say, left aside.
14:05
But we're sort of running into more difficulty in in in in finding their
14:11
new the new position. So that was the next big step in in in
14:16
in changing the C level people and and doing you know, good hires and
14:22
as hires. We did both of them, and some great people joining and
14:26
some not great people joining, and starting again and started again and started again
14:31
and started again. That was interesting. So that was a period of chatters
14:35
and the content the early years were not simple, so it was not simple
14:41
to find to raise money, and to raise money at the creative terms sort
14:46
of you know, increased the size of the rounds and the size of the
14:50
valuation every time. So we went through rederations and took time and and I
14:56
remember we had a discussion. I can't remember the dates all that, and
14:58
and video might might laugh when he hears that we had an industrial buyer who
15:05
offered us I think it was one hundred million, not just above one hundred
15:07
million dollars Swis Franks, I don't remember that for the buying us. And
15:15
we're should we do it? Should we not do it? It's it's fun
15:16
when you when you when when you think about that, the fact that offer
15:22
is dwarfing anything that happened since then. But at that time we did consider
15:26
it then because it was the first offer we had on the table, and
15:28
we had to take it seriously obviously, and then we started fundraising UH for
15:35
for bigger rounds. And then, I mean, the arrival of of of
15:41
Highland was it was a big milestone in the company because they brought a a
15:46
totally different perspective and much more means. Then the arrival of Index was again
15:52
at a different step. And then I followed less that the next arrival because
15:58
I quit the board at that moment. So I've been less in the handle
16:03
on the pulse of the company since since survival of Mira. So but before
16:10
it was every every round, every new set of clients, every opening of
16:15
countries. I mean, it's funny when you asked me the question, I'm
16:18
thinking, you know, there was a period of time where well, Middle
16:22
East was a big thing for us. It did represent a sizable portion of
16:26
our revenues for a while. It's it's it's a weird thing to happen.
16:30
Why did it happen Because we had one or the two guys that were good
16:33
at that at at finding closet clients in that part of the world like we
16:37
had in Friends UH and and a lot of those startups lived through those periods
16:42
where you you you draw the the target around the arrow and not the arrow.
16:48
You don't throw into the target, and we had a bit of that
16:52
at the beginning, which makes it fun. I like it. I think
16:55
it's part of the life of the company. Like that, it's so so
16:57
much of that resonates with me as an enterprise. It guy. My first
17:03
introduction to Pedro was in twenty ten or twenty eleven. He came out to
17:08
the US, and the pitch was very different than it is today, and
17:12
it really didn't resonate with me in terms of something I should buy or why
17:17
I would get value out of it, how I would use it. It
17:19
was analytics, and I didn't really need analytics. And two years later I
17:22
found myself in a world of hurt with my enterprise and went back to Patro
17:27
and said, excuse me, I could use some of those analytics now,
17:30
and we bought it and became a customer in twenty thirteen, and by twenty
17:34
fifteen I had decided to come over and become a next thinker. So the
17:37
evolution of the pitch, even stuff gotten here, I think is even more.
17:41
It matches what the product does and it really highlights the vision of what
17:45
we think it is going to look like. How do you kind of what
17:52
are your thoughts about now seeing next thing past that or come up to that
17:56
twentieth anniversary. There's got to be a certain stay. It's a pride with
18:00
it. Yeah, it's it's it's it's great to see the company. You
18:04
know, it went through the the team, it went through the usual you
18:08
know, infancy teenage revolution, it went through all the states, and and
18:15
now it's a young adult company. And uh, I think it's pretty much
18:18
behaving like that. I mean again, I'm less close to it than I
18:22
used to be at the time, but I see it now evolving like a
18:26
real company, having after having gone through all the the the creative, rebellious,
18:33
whatever it is, you know, at the different stages of its life.
18:36
So I'm very proud to see it grown up and basically having its own
18:40
life now. I do, claime, I do claim some some ownership in
18:45
in in having it started, but now it's really it's it's it's under it's
18:51
running under its own responsibility. Yeah, and it's it's wonderful to see that.
18:56
And I love the I love the visual of drawing the target around the
18:59
earrow and came over in twenty fifteen. There were ten of us in the
19:02
US, and it was very much the same thing. We'll talk to anyone
19:04
who wants to talk to us and evangelize this thing and see if we can
19:10
start to make some inroads. And now it's just it's such in many ways,
19:15
it's such a different and mature company. But Pedro has and the leadership
19:19
team has really kept the culture the values of the company. That's why I
19:25
like him as the CEO. It's his baby and he makes sure that he
19:27
takes care of that. It's really neat to see. What do you think?
19:33
Why do you think Next Think has been so successful? There's so many
19:34
startups that don't make it that either the leadership team disintegrates or it doesn't make
19:41
it through its next stage. What do you think it is about Next Think
19:45
that makes it successful? I think, first of all, I mean,
19:48
obviously the first obvious question that the answer is the people. I think Gridroy
19:52
is quite exceptional. Patrick has proven to be a great contributor. I think
19:56
Vincent has a lot even if he's not there anymore, or he's been a
20:00
great contributor to the company, et cetera, et cetera. So that the
20:03
people were the right ones, and the obviously chose the right investors. That's
20:07
obvious what I'm saying, But it it matters because they they managed to,
20:15
you know, raise more funding than they ever thought they would have to,
20:22
and that's not simple. And they did it because you know, they have
20:25
a good value proposition and the client by that the services is very low churned,
20:30
et cetera, et cetera. So that I think is a is a
20:33
very important point I always like to remind. I mean that I think I
20:37
gave an interview a speech. I don't remember the tenth anniversary of the fifteenth
20:41
I dug out and I still have it. I mean, it's a it's
20:45
a very nasty document. It's the initial business plan that I on which I
20:49
invested in the company. And I always quote that it's a you know it
20:55
was. It was. It was quite quite correct. It was only one
20:59
zero too much on their sales and and once you were too little on the
21:02
on the expensive, but otherwise it was good. Uh. Obviously obviously,
21:08
when when that happens, I mean, you need you need funding because obviously
21:12
there's a gap and and they managed to do it. They've always managed to
21:18
to raise money and attract good investors. And I think all the rounds we
21:23
all did our job. I mean we did our job. Our French,
21:26
our friends did their job. Then Highland did their job. Index Premiere.
21:32
I mean everybody has come in in the right moment and and brought value to
21:36
the company. I think that's an important element. The product is is I
21:40
mean the product is good, because otherwise it does sell so and it would
21:44
be a churn. There is no churn. I don't know where the churn
21:47
is now. But at the time when the company, the churn was was
21:49
positive. It was it was increasing the sales with the clients every year,
21:56
so even it would compensate with the few losses. So hm, I think
22:00
the the strong for the strong value proposition in the beginning was was that it
22:07
was it's a complicated product, but it was pretty simple to use and with
22:11
with good guys and and interfaces and whatever. I think that matters. I
22:18
think that they did they did right, and I think they had luck.
22:21
I mean, certainly they were. They were lucky on certain aspects. I
22:23
don't know which ones, but by the right people and and and and and
22:29
get the right customers and overall, it's it's it's really it's it's it's been
22:40
a very nice, nice right, But it was also the question for for
22:45
other entrepreneurs. Twenty years is a long time. If you think about the
22:52
first round from investors. I mean I invested, I don't know, it
22:55
was not twenty years ago, but it was pretty close to twenty years ago,
22:57
seventeen or so, and you know, how do you how do you
23:02
deal with those kind of things? And it's quite it's quite normal. I
23:04
mean, I'm not saying there was low I think a lot of good companies
23:07
take ten twenty years to to to really become what they are. It causes
23:14
a lot of problem for the for the investors. You know, the first
23:15
one they have ten year funds and maybe the investment is done and the fourth
23:19
year of the funds, after seven years, you go and see the year
23:23
and say when you said nothing inside, my friend? So how do you
23:27
deal with that? And I think we were lucky to to manage that property.
23:33
I mean v I came out in the secondary transaction in very decent terms.
23:36
I mean, I don't think we should have solved, but we did
23:37
it. For all kinds of reasons. I didn't sell my share I'm still
23:41
the personal shareholder. Then I'm happy to be there. And then that came
23:47
in and they managed to to make sure that they can sit on the horse
23:52
a long time. I don't know how our friend managed that, but he
23:56
did. He did a good job. And then high Land has a long
24:00
term vision. Index has a long term vision. So I think that's also
24:03
been a very good way to manage the company. They attracted people that can
24:07
cope with the fact that it's lasting much more than the usual five, seven,
24:12
ten years that startup goes through. And ala, when you look at
24:18
that journey and you think back to what next think was fifteen years ago,
24:26
twenty years ago, do you find where it is now to be recognizably itself
24:33
or do you feel that so much time has passed, it scaled so vastly,
24:37
but it's effectively transformed into something that's completely distinct. No, I don't
24:42
think it is distinct. I think, first of all, I think that
24:47
when you still have the founder in the company, there is a Each company
24:51
has its own personality, right, and then it starts with the boss.
24:55
And I think the fact that Pedro has been there for twenty years guarantees that
25:00
there is some continuity in that now. Can I say it's exactly the same
25:04
mentality now that it was five or ten years ago? Probably not, But
25:07
I'm I'm not very well based to to to give a judgment on that,
25:14
because I'm again I'm only seeing what I see from next thing through some reporting
25:19
I get on a regular basis as a small shareholder, and a few discussions
25:23
I have with Vedro and some existing alumnis of the company. So I don't
25:29
have a hands on the pills for the last I would say, five years
25:32
now, but I think that the spirit has has vastly stayed the same of
25:37
would understand the next incrementality. I'm glad to be and I still consider that
25:44
next thinking on strata, I'm one of the strata next thinkers. Mm hmmm,
25:51
next thinker emeritus, I think exactly exactly. Yeah, So, as
25:56
you mentioned at the top of a discussion, you're in a Lozart and it's
26:02
you know, a place next week has got a chance mostly to visit now
26:06
and then at least, and it's got a very interesting atmosphere, a very
26:10
interesting kind of cultural and economic history. How do you think the place itself
26:17
influences the spirit of a company. Well, I apologize in advance for a
26:23
very biased response. I'm going to give you you're all good. I have
26:29
a vested interest in and I really like my region, and I'm very thankful
26:33
for having being born and raised in that part of the world. I think
26:38
it has a lot of good aspects for entrepreneurship as a it's a nice place
26:45
to live, and I think that matters. You don't live in a rat
26:48
hole in life, so this is everything but the rat hole. So I
26:53
think it and a lot of people that are entrepreneurialill also, not all of
26:57
them, but a lot of them enjoyed bit of nature and a bit of
27:00
nice, nice atmosphere side and whatever. And it's so easy to drive out
27:06
of the city and do a few things on weekends, on evenings or whatever.
27:08
So I think it's a nice environment. I think one of the very
27:11
strong points in our part of the world. And there's a few other pockets
27:17
like that in the world, but this is a very exceptional one. Is
27:19
that we cater for a huge percentage of foreigners that bring a lot of value
27:26
to the country because they are creative, because they are entrepreneurial, and Pinio
27:33
is a good example. I mean, it's a wonderful it's a wonderful acquisition
27:37
for the country. Have people like that come in and do their stuff is
27:42
a blessing, and I think we do. We welcome them reasonably. Well,
27:48
I'm sure we could do better, but in general they're well received.
27:52
They get some subsidies and stuff. I think that the creation of next thing
27:56
was difficult, like every new creation of a company. But I guess I
28:00
don't know what Peter will say about that, but I guess he will say
28:06
that he was welcome, then he got some brands and stuff, and then
28:10
found some investors and the whole process was really smooth. I think that another
28:15
aspect in our country is a higher fire as easy. I mean it's very
28:18
easy in the US, but in some European countries it's less. It's more
28:22
complicated, and when you start a company, the last thing you want is
28:26
to have people that are stuck to you and you stuck to them. I
28:29
think that the whole thing needs to be fluid, and that's the way to
28:33
work, and I think Switzerland allows that to happen very well. So that
28:37
is certainly a value for startups. I think we need to also consider the
28:45
education level. There's an extraordinary thing in Switzerland that no other country can claim
28:49
none is fifty five zero percent of students in Switzerland university students are in one
29:00
of the top one hundred university in the world. A PFL is one of
29:03
them. So it's extraordinary and it's and it's free, and it's basically free.
29:07
I mean it's costs a few thousand bucks a year. I mean it's
29:11
the cost of living is high, but the university itself cost nothing. So
29:15
it's quite extraordinary to have so many, such a big concentration of leading uh
29:22
leading universities and student top class students worldwide, worldwide, top class students rubbing
29:27
shoulders, and I think that is a great opportunity to create stuff. And
29:30
goz is A is one of the three hubs in Switzerland's there's really three hubs.
29:36
That that where a lot of things happen is is the big Losan area.
29:40
And I would some would argue the extends to Geneva and to Vallet and
29:44
whatever, but that that that that whole region has a critical massive entrepreneurs Now
29:49
Currich has one for sure, and then Basil has one, and and you
29:53
have three three extraordinary hubs. So I think this is this is also good,
30:00
uh, a good basis and for the creation of companies. And I'm
30:03
seeing now a lot of startups coming up which are really really well thought through,
30:11
I mean and and and really well prepared and and CEOs that sometimes are
30:15
repeat entrepreneurs, so they really know what they're doing. Investors start to know
30:19
what they're doing. It's a critical mass of money. When when Next Thing
30:23
started, the the numbers in Switzerland were around two three hundred million a year
30:30
that was invested in BC in the whole country. So if you were raising
30:37
five million, you were tamping on uh, you know, one or two
30:40
percent of the total funding of the country. It's significant today that the total
30:45
funding is is around two three billion, maybe more so, with a totally
30:52
different league now than we were at the time that Next Thing started. But
30:56
I think Next Thing, I'm very great for not only proud and graceful that
31:02
for the Next Thing and that it happened, because it's a good example for
31:04
the for the young people and say well it can work. And entrepreneurs are
31:11
optimists, so they look at the good cases and they forget the bad ones.
31:14
So it's nice to have a good case like next Thing that attracts the
31:19
the Yeah, the desire of younger people to do the same and even meet
31:26
it. Yeah, one hundred percent. And if you're thinking about this as
31:32
younger entrepreneurs, if you had to wrap up your years of success and experience
31:38
in this space, which free lessons might you draw from next Thing success that
31:45
you think entrepreneurs could take forward and could learn from. What would these be?
31:52
I would say the first thing is live your passion. If if you
32:00
have something that you really like, something you really want to do, something
32:04
where you want to make a difference in this well, just do it.
32:06
No, go for it. If you're twenty five or thirty, you have
32:10
nothing to do. Basically, if it fails, it fails. I mean
32:13
you've learned something. If it works, it works, it's fantastic. So
32:17
just do it. Live your dreams, live your dreams, stay young,
32:22
stay stay agiant, stay full of of positive energy. And that's the first
32:28
thing. The second one is is think long term. One of the one
32:36
of the mistakes I see quite often is you know that they create a company
32:39
and want to have an exit and this and that, and I mean it
32:45
will happen. If it feels successful, life will treat you well. So
32:49
just think long term, say, have a long term vision, work with
32:52
people that have a long term view, and and don't bother about you know,
32:57
whether you're you know, setting a companion or not or whatever. It
33:00
just make sure you're building a solid company. You're building a solid team,
33:07
solid investors, solid network. Basically all the people around you should be people
33:13
that are scalable, that are genuinely supporting you, et cetera. And and
33:20
and think yeah long yeah, long term basically. And the third one is
33:27
it's part of the second also maybe a bit redundant, I would say,
33:31
is is built as a solid team around you, both the C levels and
33:40
your co founders and whatever. And and build people. Try to recruit people
33:45
that are even better than you. I mean, it's ideal. It's easy
33:49
to say, it's not easy to do, but recruit people that are really
33:52
great caliber. And and if it doesn't work, just you know, operated
34:00
change. It's painful sometimes, but it has to be done. And and
34:06
the upwards management is is make sure you have a board that is constructive.
34:09
And the board is often delegates of your investors, so be careful if you
34:14
have the luxury to do so. That's also question. Can you pick the
34:17
right kind of investors with whom you'll you'll be happy to work and and and
34:22
and happy to build a company and happy to listen to or exchange ideas and
34:28
think we should listen to investors, should we should exchange ideas with that,
34:31
and and have people that are capable of helping you build your business rather than
34:36
nagging you or whatever it is. And not simple to do all those things,
34:39
but some people make it and Pedro did it. Excellent advice And what
34:50
really stood out to me that I had to say and was hire people better
34:52
than yourself. Clearly that's what Pedro did when he hired Tim. It was
35:00
a direct hire. And I think not think not, but no salient advice
35:06
for you know, for entrepreneurs. And absolutely wonderful to walk down memory lane
35:13
with you there. I love the stories of Next Think Routs. They're ever
35:15
so interesting and you know it is it is a It is an organization to
35:20
this day that retains its soul and I think you're absolutely right. But it
35:24
has a lot to do with still being led by a founder CEO, but
35:29
it also has a lot to do with the people it's attracted along the wave
35:31
of the place it comes from, the ideas and the passion that inspired it
35:37
way back when. So thank you so much for coming on the show and
35:40
telling us, telling us, been lovely talking to you, sir, Pleasure,
35:45
Pleasure. It was a fun, good, good memories for me to
35:50
go back to those those time of the creational Next Thing it's a it's a
35:53
great, great, nice, successful story with people I really appreciate, deeply
36:00
excellent, excellent and for listeners, so you know that they're going to be
36:02
as I mentioned at the top of the discussion, they're going to be some
36:07
very special other episodes of the Deck Show this month to mark this anniversary and
36:12
go on our socials, go on the Deck tub and you'll see some fantastic
36:15
contributions to the celebrations there also. I'm looking forward to that. Thanks.
36:22
To make sure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in
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36:38
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36:43
Head over to nextthink dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
36:46
Until next time.