Latest / Panels & Pacing: An Animation Editing Podcast / Episode 006 - Bob's Burgers, This Week in Queer History, and AI with Kris Fitzgerald

Transcript

Episode 006 - Bob's Burgers, This Week in Queer History, and AI with Kris Fitzgerald · Panels & Pacing: An Animation Editing Podcast

• 0:00
  I'm a little more risky of a surfer.
• 0:02
  I'm like, put me on the board in the big waves.
• 0:03
  I don't care. I'll figure it out.
• 0:21
  Welcome to episode 5 of Handles and Pacing, an animation editing
• 0:24
  podcast. Today I'll be talking to Chris
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  Fitzgerald, an animation editor currently on Bob's Burgers.
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  His credits include The Bob's Burgers Movie, Central Park,
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  Lost in Ounces, The Awesomes, and Transformers Prime.
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  He's worked on multiple Emmy winning shows and received an
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  Indie Series Award nomination for editing the East Siders.
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  Outside of the Edit Bay, Chris created This Week in Queer
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  History, a YouTube channel celebrating LGBTQ plus
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  milestones with 5600 plus subscribers, a weekly podcast,
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  and an AI powered production pipeline that lets him produce
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  an episode every week alongside his full time gig.
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  Do you want to reveal that your AI assistant wrote that bio for
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  you? Exactly.
• 1:00
  I'll approve, but his my assistant did do it, yeah.
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  So just a little bit background between a Chris and I's
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  relationship. Chris, the first editor I worked
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  with when I switched into animation and he was my editor
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  and I was the assistant editor of The Awesomes.
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  And he's currently over on Buzz Burgers where my wife works and
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  has worked for a while. So he's kind of been in the
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  family a little. Bit.
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  I also wanted to let you know that I've told a couple past
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  stories on previous episodes that involve you and and your
• 1:29
  involvement in my career. So it's great to actually have
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  him here and as a as a guest. So, yeah, so I want to get into
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  kind of how you got into animation and how you got into
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  editing and. Yeah, it has been a journey.
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  So I started, you know, right after high school, I was an
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  actor. So I went off and like pursued
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  the acting thing, went to undergrad, did school for
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  acting, singing, dancing, went off and was a an actor for
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  probably about 10 years. And then I was like, this is not
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  for me. But so I went back to grad
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  school and got my masters in directing and then landed in LA
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  and was like hustling as much as I could, doing anything and
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  everything to get into Hollywood Breakthrough, right?
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  And I started editing because I knew how to edit for my own
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  projects. And I just started editing for
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  other people's projects. And there were producers that I
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  had like worked on their shoots or whatever, and they were like,
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  do you know an editor? I'm an editor.
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  So I just started picking up as many freelance kicks as I could
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  and slowly that built up my reel enough that there came a point
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  where I met the right people at the right time and they said,
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  hey, we're starting an animation studio which would be
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  interested. And I jumped at the chance And
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  so started, that was my first professional gig at a studio and
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  started as an apprentice editor. So that's even below assistant
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  apprentice editor where I was like they were giving me a shot
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  to because I didn't have the studio level credits, but
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  quickly moved up that first season to assistant and then
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  eventually moved up to editor on the final couple seasons.
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  So and then from there, the people that I met on that show,
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  Transformers Prime moved over to another show because the line
• 3:20
  producer went over to that show. Lost in Oz boot bounced over to
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  Bento box did the Awesomes went away for a little.
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  Actually lost in Oz was after the awesomes.
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  So, you know, I just bounced around and then eventually came
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  back to Vento and I've been working on Bob's for almost 7-8
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  years, I think maybe more. Again, Yeah, the math.
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  And we met back on the Awesomes, which is wild, which is just
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  crazy wild. I think that's almost 10 years
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  ago. Yeah, I think I'm yeah, that was
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  yeah. Cuz I've been 10 years into
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  animation now. 2015 was what was kind of my my transition year
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  into into animation and yeah. So that's been my milestone.
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  So yeah, like I said, Chris was my first editor that I worked
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  under and. So well, and you had been doing
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  sound, a lot of sound editing at that time, I think.
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  I, I don't basically I had done, I'd gone up through the ranks as
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  an assistant editor to an editor of just in reality TV.
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  So it was, you know, just kind of like full on reality TV
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  pipeline. That's right, yeah.
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  Yeah. And you really learn your chops
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  there. That's something that I kind of
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  I skipped that reality editing step in there.
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  I was lucky or not fortunate. I don't know which one cuz so
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  many editors that I've worked with in the past who worked on
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  reality are really incredible editors because so much footage
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  and I think it lends itself to animation because there's just
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  so much, there's so many assets that you deal with in animation.
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  So, but I, I fell in love with animation.
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  I had worked in live action, you know, I did some live action
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  stuff and that's really where I came from was live action.
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  But then once I moved on to Transformers, I just fell in
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  love with it. I love the people, I loved the
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  schedule because animation has to be so methodical.
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  There are steps, there are blocks of where the production
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  moves through 1 cannot move to the next without finishing.
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  You know for the most part try to finish and then move the the
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  chunks as it goes through development.
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  So that was interesting and different.
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  Then live action where it was like you do all that shooting,
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  this is what you've got. This is this is your bin of
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  footage. And now make something, this is
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  more like tweaking, evolving. Every step along the way it gets
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  better and better and better. And I really, I love that.
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  Yeah, it's really, really cool. I think the methodical is a good
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  way to put it. And I think that was one of the
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  things methodical with a lot of assets is one of the things that
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  I latched onto that, that first job that we had together,
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  because again, I had to jump, jump, dip back down to be an
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  assistant editor once I switched over.
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  And so having the experience and the knowledge of like you're
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  organizing assets, you're organizing a project, there's
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  like certain steps to do like that.
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  I was able to turn back on And that kind of really helped
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  understand this new pipeline with, with, with this kind of
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  different, different medium and different type of of stuff where
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  you're not like getting three different camera angles of the
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  same thing. You're getting one single shot
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  that's one moment and one bit of dialogue and then the next and,
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  and whatever. But there's, there's still like
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  a sequential shot numbering system that that was relatively
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  familiar and that was easy to kind of be like, all right,
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  well, obviously shot one goes 1st and then shot 2 in the shot.
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  So I think also what made it easy for me in a personal level
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  was how organized you are taking that as a kind of guiding point.
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  And also you had kind of had had to operate like your own
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  assistant editor for a good chunk of that that show.
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  Yeah. And I think part of that season.
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  Yeah, comes from, I think being scrappy when you work on really
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  small productions and you are the one person show really that
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  you are in charge of making it happen.
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  And I think that's where you learn some of those skills.
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  And in reality too, it's like you can't survive unless you
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  know where the shot is. You can't serve like you just
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  won't make it because there's not enough time.
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  There's not enough time to go digging, to go searching, to be
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  like, what version of the file are we on?
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  Those technical things of organization and structure That
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  should be. What I learned is that that
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  should just be in behind the scenes.
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  It's in the shadows. And yet it it holds everything
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  together so that when you're in a session or when you're working
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  on a shot, you can instantly you the creativity is the fun part.
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  The organization is the thing that allows you to be creative.
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  Yeah. And when you start in these
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  smaller productions, you may not have an assistant.
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  And so you have to be able to find the stuff quickly to put it
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  into the shot, to put it into the cut, because you've got to
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  get that cut out in, you know, by the end of the day.
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  And so any kind of systems that I, I found along the way that
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  would help keep me organized, keep things flowing and allow me
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  to, to do the fun stuff, which is the creative stuff.
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  And then, and then just knowing that you have that structure and
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  support underneath you with organization naming, file
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  naming. I mean, at first it was like,
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  that's boring, that's ridiculous.
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  But it will save you because those those systems really
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  really help in animation. Especially, yeah, yeah, I think
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  one of the other things that I took away to that point is that
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  the pipeline and the production crew and the kind of like
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  protocols that you're in, it really this is kind of like an
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  assembly line or like you're spokes on a wheel or whatever
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  the analogy you want to use. And it really just kind of helps
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  push those small little bits of the process along so that you
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  can get to the creative stuff. And even something small like
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  what you were saying of like knowing where certain versions
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  are. One of my main jobs as the
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  assistant editor was to when we would get revisions on shots or
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  retakes on shots, I would have to cut in the new version.
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  And, and so, so Chris can look at it.
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  And also, I mentioned this a previous episode, but like on
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  the Awesomes, we were kind of wearing more hats than you
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  normally would as an editorial department because our director
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  left after animatics were done. And so all the retake directing
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  and retake revisions and stuff like that were kind of handled
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  by us as a kind of like collective committee, you know,
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  So to that point, like if I have like a shot 1 and I got a
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  revision on on track shot 1 is, is cut on track one video track
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  1. And then I get the revision,
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  I'll cut it on top on video track 2 and then leave the old
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  one underneath it. So that when you're comparing,
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  oh, did they address this note, you can quickly mute the, the,
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  the, the the top video layer and compare, you know, maybe you're
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  on a single frame where you know that this hand got redrawn it
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  to, to look more human like or whatever.
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  You can AB compare them turn turn 1 early off or do a split
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  screen. And yeah, to be able to compare
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  them. And then it's a really easy way
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  to be quick at double checking work, which is a lot of the
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  process that we were to a certain extent what we were
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  doing. Yeah.
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  In post production on that, on that, on that project, so.
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  And to think like when you're doing retakes, especially the 2D
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  and depending on how the 2D is built, but you know, with Bob's
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  Burgers with Awesomes, it was a pretty flat color palette.
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  There wasn't, there weren't a lot of gradients.
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  We had some gradients, but a take one, if the timing sort of
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  lined up, you could comp or you know, steal parts of a take one
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  and put it onto a take two if you need it.
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  And so that's an asset. It's valuable.
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  There's, there's still information, there's still stuff
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  in there that you could use in the final cut too, even though
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  it may not have been the whole shop may not be used.
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  So that's always something valuable too when you're
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  building. Sometimes as the, as the editor,
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  even if you do have an assistant editor, the editor sometimes
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  needs to be the one to kind of determine what the project
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  organization is going to be. Because especially in animation
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  where a lot of times at certain stages you are the only editor
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  on the show and there's only one assistant editor.
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  So you're really just kind of catering your project management
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  and project organization to how you like to work as the editor.
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  And so having knowing how you want certain things named,
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  because sometimes production will be like, hey, we don't
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  actually have a protocol in there.
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  Like how would how should we name these things?
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  Yes and yeah, having some knowledge of of a good way
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  that's going to keep you organized or keep everybody
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  organized is, is good to have in your back pocket one. 100% yeah,
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  you should know like what works for you, what will help you
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  suggest it because if it comes into you, however they you know
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  see cuz they're they're thinking of like oh, I can find it this
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  way. This is fine for us to label and
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  keep in the in the Finder window, but like like how does
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  it line up in your cut? How will it be 3 takes down?
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  Will they line up? Will they, will they be by shot
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  number or take number? And like, how do you want to
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  work? What's going to be fastest for
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  you? And don't be afraid to ask for
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  it. They may push back and say no,
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  but it's always good to come ready with some ideas.
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  And you know, that's the stuff I did not know early in my career.
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  And I had to like really pick it up and be like, oh, this is
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  actually the better way to do it and be able to to speak out
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  because it's for the betterment of the production, Especially in
• 11:58
  sessions when the creators or, you know, showrunners, the
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  writers, whoever's in the room, you want that to be really
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  flowing easily, smoothly, without care.
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  You know, it's just like, it's just flows.
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  And the moment there's that hiccup of like, oh, this
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  struggles, technical struggle, everyone can feel that.
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  And so that's what you're trying to help avoid.
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  Yeah, inserting yourself into the planning process to kind of
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  cross any bridges that you may not force, that someone else may
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  have not, may not have foreseen. Yeah, getting at trying to get
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  ahead of those those instances. So you're not kind of like
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  chasing your tail or scrambling to get a bunch of 50 shots that
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  are that were half approved that you do want to put in a cut and
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  and weren't originally given to editorials.
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  And I think that's a big part of as being an editor is not just.
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  So this is the hard thing. I think being a successful
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  professional editor is looking beyond the edit Bay.
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  So when production gives you a calendar that is gold, it has so
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  much information, it, it tells you what they're expecting and
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  what they're thinking. And, and if you can see the, if
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  you can kind of look back outside of the edit Bay and know
• 13:13
  what is before you and what is after you, you'll be able to
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  start to see how you flow, how it flows in and out.
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  And if you see on that calendar, oh, they're going to be
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  reviewing stuff the same time as you, That's something where it's
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  like, OK, well, how do we figure?
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  How do we do this? So that when they see the cut
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  that's supposed to come out the same exact time as those shots
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  are being reviewed? Like at what point when, when do
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  we get those into the shot? And so that's again, like,
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  that's the discussion. We could be like, Hey, I see
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  this and I just want to make sure we're all OK that this is
• 13:43
  not going to have those thoughts in it.
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  But that's again, that's like kind of stepping outside of your
• 13:47
  edit brain and saying like, OK, production wise, how do I fit
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  into this? How do I make everyone happy
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  with what they're expecting? And it's hard because that's
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  something we don't, you know, we come in, we're like, I edit, I
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  kind of I put it together, audio picture, we're good, right?
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  We're good. But that outside stuff is so
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  important. And you can be a team player
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  with time and experience. You get that.
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  But don't be afraid to ask questions if you don't have that
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  time and experience and just be like, hey, I see this thing.
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  I'm not sure quite how. How is this coming in to me?
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  How is this going out? What do you expect?
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  And I really wanna make sure that I hit this for you because
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  that's what you put on the calendar, right?
• 14:21
  And that's what we're hoping to make this run.
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  Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting that
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  you do kind of, I keep talking about things that you don't
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  learn if you went to school for editing or school for
• 14:31
  filmmaking, even the non creative.
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  But the scheduling and the making everybody happy and the
• 14:38
  running the room stuff is, is important that you just kind of
• 14:40
  like figure out as you go. Is that something you did kind
• 14:42
  of figure out as you went? Or did you have any kind of like
• 14:45
  mentors along the way that that kind of like helped show you the
• 14:48
  ropes or you saw them do this and you're like, oh, I, I that,
• 14:51
  that triggers my brain to understand that this is what we
• 14:53
  need to do. Yeah, I think I I definitely was
• 14:56
  more of a a putting out fires editor for a very long time.
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  So things would I would not be able to look beyond this moment,
• 15:05
  this week, this whatever. So it was always like, oh, this
• 15:09
  is coming and I got to do this right now.
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  But then somewhere along the way, I don't know if it was with
• 15:14
  Bobs because Lost in Oz, I had a few nights where I was like
• 15:17
  there till 3:00 AM and it was a hard show, beautiful show, tons
• 15:20
  of boards action. And so there are a few nights
• 15:23
  where I was like, oh, this is an intense building.
• 15:24
  I was the only one without an assistant and I think that may
• 15:28
  have been my last really where I was like, I need to, I need to
• 15:31
  wrangle this because if it, if it's going to be a hard
• 15:34
  production, I need to be able to block it out.
• 15:37
  I think that working with Stephanie early.
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  So I have to give her a shout out because she, she was another
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  assistant. Yeah, she, and she was really
• 15:48
  good with that and kind of seeing how she blocked time.
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  I, I was always a time blocker, but really watching her pull the
• 15:56
  whole schedule into her calendar and then work on blocking out
• 16:00
  the time of being like, OK, two weeks ahead, 3 weeks ahead,
• 16:03
  season ahead. If you've got the calendar, I
• 16:05
  know that on this day, I need to at least put in these 3 hours to
• 16:09
  do this thing. And then you can start to ship
• 16:11
  those time blocks around in your week.
• 16:13
  With production, everything is the best laid plan until you
• 16:17
  know, stuff happens. And so you have to be able to
• 16:19
  adapt as well. And so I think that is what I
• 16:23
  now love and use is time blocking in my Google Calendar
• 16:27
  where I just say, I know that a rewrite is going to take me.
• 16:30
  I block out six hours, 8 hours. And like, I know that is going
• 16:33
  to take that day. But those time blocks where I'm
• 16:36
  like, I'm building for two hours on this episode.
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  I'm doing revisions, 4 hours on this episode during this time.
• 16:42
  And then I can start to ship those around in my week.
• 16:45
  So I think that's something that I learned along the way.
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  But I would have to say that I kind of stole a little bit of
• 16:50
  that from. I just saw how much Stephanie
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  was even more into that and even more on top of it.
• 16:56
  You want to be ahead of the game always, if you can, just to have
• 17:00
  a controlled, nice, healthy life as opposed to like running.
• 17:05
  I, I, it's a marathon. And, and the beautiful part
• 17:08
  about animation is that you can work for a majority of the year
• 17:12
  depending on, you know, the show that you're on and how the
• 17:14
  seasons are running. But if they're usually the, the
• 17:17
  productions are longer. So you don't want to burn out.
• 17:19
  You want to, you want to say in a nice pace.
• 17:21
  And so I think that is what I have found really works for me.
• 17:25
  Interesting. What do you?
• 17:27
  Think have you? I, I haven't come across anyone
• 17:30
  or, and haven't done it myself, but kind of like actually
• 17:32
  scheduling out your own blog. I'm a bit blinded by my most
• 17:35
  recent show because that was a lot of like, we have all these
• 17:37
  best laid plans, but like we, everyone knows that we're not
• 17:40
  going to hit those. And so we're really operating
• 17:42
  day-to-day, week to week. And so at a certain point I was
• 17:44
  like, it doesn't even help me to look at what is supposed to be
• 17:47
  happening in two weeks because I know that it's probably not
• 17:49
  going to wind up that way. So one of the things that I've
• 17:55
  found out I've realized about myself as an editor is that I
• 17:59
  operate well-being flexible because of that, You know, I, I
• 18:04
  think that understanding that like the unexpected can happen
• 18:07
  and kind of being prepared for like how you need to pivot is an
• 18:11
  important part of, of the role. And I think so for me, like
• 18:16
  internalizing, like, all right, I have a new animatic and so I
• 18:18
  know I'd love a whole, a whole week and, you know, the schedule
• 18:21
  is giving me a whole week to do it.
• 18:23
  But then I know in the back of my mind, like all these other
• 18:25
  things, I'm making revisions for this other episode.
• 18:27
  And I kind of well, maybe even just kind of like internalize
• 18:31
  like a plan A, I have the whole week to do this.
• 18:33
  And then I can get through this many timing passes and I can
• 18:36
  sound design it and I can score it.
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  And but then like the second I start having more things thrown
• 18:41
  at me that week, and then they'll be like, all right,
• 18:43
  well, maybe I can do like 75% of the sound design that I was
• 18:46
  going to do. So I have more time to focus on
• 18:48
  this other task or what you've done a few episodes with your
• 18:51
  creative team, your showrunner and your directors.
• 18:54
  You kind of start to learn what their expectations are and what
• 18:56
  they're what they want from the cuts you're giving them.
• 18:59
  And then you can kind of work accordingly.
• 19:01
  So on my Disney Junior showed Mirror World Detective, I found
• 19:06
  out pretty quickly that they they only wanted to hear temp
• 19:10
  music for action sequences and like transit and like
• 19:14
  transitional of like transition. And that sound design is the
• 19:17
  same thing. Like they're hearing sound
• 19:18
  effects over someone's dialogue. They're not going to like that.
• 19:21
  And so I started learning that like, all right, it's nice to be
• 19:24
  able to have the time to do a lot of this stuff and it does
• 19:26
  make your whole thing sound better, but they may tell me to
• 19:29
  turn it off in the middle of the of the session because they came
• 19:31
  into the dialogue. So, and halfway through working
• 19:34
  on season 1 of Mirror, maybe like 3/4 the way through, we
• 19:38
  started getting in animation and I was the picture editor as
• 19:41
  well. And so once I started having the
• 19:43
  picture editorial workload on top of having to cut animatics,
• 19:47
  I was like, all right, well, I have a third less time now to
• 19:49
  work on this animatics. So I know I can get by with just
• 19:52
  like throwing in a couple little scores, a couple sound effects
• 19:56
  things for certain moments and no one's gonna like tell me they
• 20:00
  wish they they heard more. So I think the flexibility of,
• 20:04
  of, of learning how much certain things to take you to do, but
• 20:06
  then also what the expectation is on you and how busy a week is
• 20:09
  going to be. And then also the communication
• 20:11
  is very important that that you brought up too.
• 20:14
  Or if it's, it looks like it's a busy week and you're like, Hey,
• 20:16
  normally I would love a week to do this, but I see it's a busy
• 20:18
  week. Like I'll be able to do this in
• 20:20
  three days, but it's not going to be as fully fleshed out as is
• 20:24
  another thing, just because I don't have the time or this
• 20:27
  isn't enough time for me to do this.
• 20:29
  So if you want me to do a full thing, I need the extra day.
• 20:31
  Yes, exactly. And a lot of that, what you
• 20:35
  judge as value, what you judge as important or necessary
• 20:40
  depends on where you're at in the production pipeline to.
• 20:44
  So I always would like in animatic, I, I tend to, I tend
• 20:48
  to sound effect and sound design minimally.
• 20:51
  I will I'll intro a scene with maybe some atmosphere, but what
• 20:56
  I care about most with sound design is anything that
• 20:59
  interacts with the characters or or will affect timing because
• 21:04
  those are the things that are going to move from this moment
• 21:07
  into the next phase, which is timing animation that they then
• 21:12
  rely on that that I have dropped in to create and do their job.
• 21:17
  And so any time that there's a hit, a smack, a door, a car
• 21:22
  swerving around the corner, those are important because
• 21:25
  that's, that's like real, I need to be able to see and feel and,
• 21:28
  and make sure that timing is correct.
• 21:30
  Ultimately, if you're not the sound designer, they may come
• 21:33
  and be like scrap it all and I'm going to be using something.
• 21:36
  Else. That is important to point out
• 21:37
  because I do like to kind of broaden out some of our
• 21:40
  discussion to kind of in case there's not animation editors
• 21:43
  listening to say that like when you're doing an animatic, you
• 21:46
  are kind of working toward building the blueprint of what
• 21:48
  will be animated. So if something, if a sound
• 21:51
  defect, if something that's non dialogue is happening, that's
• 21:54
  especially if it's written into the script and it's like part of
• 21:56
  the comedy or part of the timing or part of the drama or scene or
• 22:00
  whatever. An important part of what you're
• 22:02
  trying to to get across. Of course, that you, you should
• 22:05
  be timing out that sound, that sound effect then.
• 22:08
  And especially if it's something like something that's
• 22:09
  interacting with the the characters or they're reacting
• 22:12
  to something. And then once everything's
• 22:14
  animated, So you want to, you want to kind of give the
• 22:17
  animator the blueprints and, and the really specific information
• 22:22
  of like, all right, at this frame of this scene, this action
• 22:24
  happens. Here's a sound effect that cues
• 22:27
  everyone to know when this happened.
• 22:28
  Even if it that sound effect, the clip you're using is temp
• 22:31
  and will be replaced later. The timing is what's important.
• 22:34
  And then so that let that cues everyone to to to turn over
• 22:37
  their shoulder and look, you know, fresh behind them or
• 22:39
  whatever. And then later on when you get
• 22:42
  the animation back in, the sound designer during the like kind of
• 22:46
  final audio stages may swap out the sound, may add some kind of
• 22:51
  yeah, tire screeching in the background as the thing comes
• 22:54
  around the corner before the car crashed that wasn't there
• 22:57
  before. That's the kind of like this has
• 22:59
  been animated. We see this on screen.
• 23:00
  So now we need to put sound design behind that.
• 23:04
  I'm interested. Just a quick little little
• 23:06
  curiosity question about score with with with with Bob's,
• 23:10
  because Bob's a show that's been on for 15 plus seasons and, you
• 23:13
  know, obviously has all those seasons of of of scored original
• 23:19
  library to use. How often are you using previous
• 23:22
  seasons music cues and stuff like that And Maddox to kind of
• 23:26
  like just kind of like set the mood?
• 23:28
  Yeah, we have a huge library. We have a huge library.
• 23:31
  So many different cues and yet every season the creators are
• 23:36
  trying to push it, to change it, to make it so that the show
• 23:39
  doesn't get stale. And so they just, they talked
• 23:42
  about this and we, we've had discussions where it's like we
• 23:45
  want a different, a little different sound or let's not
• 23:47
  just use the same old, same old ukulele.
• 23:50
  Let's, let's shake it up. Let's let's do something new.
• 23:53
  And I think that's something really cool about the show is
• 23:56
  that although it's just like a staple standard there, you know,
• 23:59
  the characters, you know, the family, they're still going
• 24:02
  through new stuff and the music is evolving and changing and
• 24:05
  growing with it. So that's really cool.
• 24:08
  We still do use cues, you know, but also beautiful part is we
• 24:14
  have an amazing music team and amazing sound composers,
• 24:19
  musicians. And so I have to give a shout
• 24:22
  out to them because they actually do a pass.
• 24:25
  I give them a cut and they do a temp pass so that they can start
• 24:28
  to get a feel of like, where are we at?
• 24:31
  How do you feel about this? And they're doing it early on in
• 24:33
  the animatic phase so they can get notes.
• 24:35
  So that is something where we are playing with score early,
• 24:40
  it's still in the works, but then they can have a notes pass
• 24:43
  saying like that queue's OK, but let's shift it and evolve it a
• 24:47
  little bit, but still within the world and heart of Bobs.
• 24:51
  Yeah, the reason why I wanted to ask is because often, and one of
• 24:57
  my first revelations of this was on Mirror when we had a season 2
• 25:00
  or once we started getting score in for the early episodes in
• 25:02
  season 1 where like we have been temp scoring with like and this
• 25:06
  was like we were excited about it.
• 25:07
  We found all these like Mira was set in India and so we were
• 25:10
  finding this really cool, like sitar covers of rock bands and
• 25:13
  classic rock songs and whatever. Here's paint it black, here's
• 25:16
  whatever. And it was like really cool to
• 25:17
  us. And then once we got the score
• 25:20
  and then it kind of did help us be like, oh right, yeah, no, we
• 25:23
  can kind of like now cut to the pace of this existing score or
• 25:27
  we found that like, oh, this actually already fits in really
• 25:30
  nicely with the pacing that we are already established.
• 25:33
  And so it actually kind of the decision making of what to use
• 25:36
  for score in in season 2, in the latter half of season 1 really
• 25:40
  kind of became a lot easier because we can just be like,
• 25:43
  here's a similar fun, funny moment that we already have
• 25:45
  score for. Let's throw that in there.
• 25:47
  And then it went up really well. And it kind of took a lot of the
• 25:50
  because a lot of times you're really just like, we have this
• 25:51
  full music library at this company.
• 25:53
  I know what I'm going for, but it's hard to search through it.
• 25:55
  There's no like I had David Vain on the previous episode and he
• 25:59
  was kind of talking about having his own music library that he's
• 26:03
  over years kind of like memorized.
• 26:05
  And he would be like, I know I want this thing and I know
• 26:07
  exactly where it is. But sometimes you don't have
• 26:09
  that luxury. You're just at a company that
• 26:11
  just like has a bunch of movie scores in a folder and you're
• 26:14
  kind of like, this is kind of like this moment in Mad Max and
• 26:17
  I want to grab that or whatever. You're kind of just like
• 26:20
  throwing stuff at straws. So it's nice and it makes things
• 26:24
  easier for when you're temp scoring.
• 26:26
  And. Throw existing stuff in there.
• 26:28
  Yeah, I think that's that loss and Oz, we did that like on our
• 26:31
  second season, it was like, OK, we've got this great library
• 26:33
  now. What is that cue sort of feel
• 26:35
  like it feels like this moment from season 1.
• 26:37
  So I think that's that's definitely valuable.
• 26:39
  And also your creators, the showrunners, they have decided
• 26:43
  they have locked that music in for season 1.
• 26:45
  They trust it, they believe in it.
• 26:46
  So that style is there and you can start to riff off of it
• 26:50
  because you're like, OK, that sounds like the score to Arrival
• 26:54
  or whatever it is this moment. So you can start to pull
• 26:57
  reference that match, that first season.
• 26:59
  That's smart. Yeah, they say because Lawson Oz
• 27:03
  was rich with score and it was full.
• 27:05
  And we were lucky. Those creators, they and the
• 27:08
  runners, they they gave me sample libraries and artists and
• 27:13
  composers. They were like, we really like
• 27:14
  the sound of this. And so I was able to kind of go
• 27:17
  out, find pieces from those artists and then lay it
• 27:20
  underneath and really use it in a in a great way.
• 27:23
  And also I think Bob's is really cool because we've done a couple
• 27:25
  of things the last couple of seasons, like pulled in, filled
• 27:28
  a glass and scores and and we're always trying to get covers too.
• 27:33
  We have some really fun covers that might be coming out this
• 27:36
  next year, I won't say, but artists having artists cover
• 27:38
  original songs too. It's like really, really fun the
• 27:42
  way that the Bob's the Bob's music team team and Patrick
• 27:46
  Daisy give it up and also the cupboards that we have, but that
• 27:49
  like really, really, really, really fun.
• 27:53
  Yeah. Would you consider Bob's your
• 27:55
  favorite show that you've worked on or are there ones that you
• 27:58
  worked on previous that that are actually kind of your favorite
• 28:01
  so. Yeah, it's kind of like your
• 28:03
  children. I wish I could say like Bobs is
• 28:05
  my favorite, but they all are. I love Bobs.
• 28:08
  I love Bobs. Bobs is, is home.
• 28:10
  It feels amazing. I love being there.
• 28:13
  And yet I I look back on all of my past shows and some of them
• 28:17
  were really hard and I still like lost in ounces those 3:00
• 28:22
  AM nights. Central Park was really it was,
• 28:25
  it was a hard art show to put together because it was a
• 28:27
  musical. It was new creators working
• 28:31
  together. It was new artists working
• 28:32
  together. And and so it was like trying to
• 28:34
  mold it together in the, in the time that we had to big
• 28:37
  productions, But I still loved it.
• 28:40
  Transformers, my first show. I mean, I look back on that and
• 28:45
  I was just such a baby. I didn't know anything.
• 28:47
  And yet I learned so much on that show.
• 28:50
  So I, I don't, I don't know. I, I mean, I have loved them
• 28:54
  all. I love Bobs.
• 28:56
  I love going to work every day. It's really amazing.
• 28:59
  And I know right now it's really hard in Hollywood and in
• 29:03
  animation, but I hope that things are starting to turn
• 29:07
  around. It feels like more stuff is
• 29:09
  happening and working, but also I think that they're, there's a
• 29:14
  lot of potential for more work with.
• 29:17
  I think that I, I keep looking and I, I do some like teaching
• 29:20
  at USC and we talk about AI generated content and I think
• 29:24
  that's going to be more of an animation pipeline than live
• 29:28
  action. So I think that animation
• 29:32
  editors may have a leg up when it comes to AI generated
• 29:36
  content. And the more that that comes
• 29:38
  out, the more that studios move towards that because they're
• 29:42
  going to, I think they'll find the way to make it work.
• 29:45
  But I do think the animation editors are going to have more
• 29:49
  experience and able to handle AI generated content because the
• 29:54
  same thing is that you're like versions of shots, knowing where
• 29:58
  hookups happen between shots, because you know, that's that's
• 30:02
  so important. Consistency of character
• 30:05
  throughout shots. All that stuff is, is really
• 30:08
  something that we as animation editors see day in and day out.
• 30:11
  So. Yeah, that's an interesting
• 30:13
  yeah. And we can talk a little bit
• 30:14
  more about about kind of like your your AI stuff when we when
• 30:17
  we get kind of in yeah to later on.
• 30:20
  But I did want to kind of bring up still staying about for a
• 30:25
  minute that you I've worked on the show, but then you also got
• 30:28
  a chance to work on the movie a few years ago.
• 30:30
  You kind of talk a little bit about like the difference
• 30:32
  between working on as an editor on the on the on the show versus
• 30:35
  like switching over to the movie and then switching back.
• 30:37
  Yeah, yeah, such different creatures and so amazing on both
• 30:41
  ends. I loved the movie too.
• 30:44
  It was definitely hard because it was during COVID, so
• 30:47
  everything was remote and we were really just trying to get
• 30:51
  it done through difficult, different times, but such an
• 30:56
  incredible experience as far as like learning how to work with
• 31:04
  feature shots as opposed to TV shots.
• 31:07
  I will see a shot in, in TV series, land series maybe twice
• 31:14
  in animatics, 3 times where I can touch it, where I can do
• 31:17
  things to it, where I can adjust timing.
• 31:19
  So in TV, you have to be really confident in your choices and
• 31:24
  know why you're doing what you're doing and and move
• 31:27
  forward done is better than perfect.
• 31:29
  And yet being able to form that consistency of choice of like,
• 31:33
  why am I choosing this in film? I feel like you still do that,
• 31:37
  but you have more room to play with the shots.
• 31:41
  I saw shots over and over. We would tweak more frames here,
• 31:45
  less frames here, let's adjust here.
• 31:46
  How does so there's more time to finesse to figure out.
• 31:50
  There are also many more versions of a shot as it
• 31:54
  develops and final. And so there was more time per
• 32:00
  shot and per pacing and everything being able to flow
• 32:04
  within 90 minutes of this feature film.
• 32:08
  And we did our Zoom sessions and yeah, it was wild.
• 32:13
  I, I mean, I remember going into the office and I was the only
• 32:16
  one that would go in because I would be the only one on the, in
• 32:18
  the NFA. So I'd walk into the the studio
• 32:22
  and they had those lights that would come on with motion and it
• 32:25
  felt like for all you sci-fi geeks out there, it felt like
• 32:28
  like the Star Trek walk onto the bridge and it's like the lights
• 32:31
  all pop on and there's nothing there.
• 32:33
  It was like so bizarre. It was, it was interesting.
• 32:36
  I really love. I remember because again, like I
• 32:38
  said, my wife is is your Co worker and and one of your
• 32:42
  producers and and she was worked on the movie and and there was a
• 32:44
  time Covad where we were our desks were next to each other.
• 32:48
  So she would be over working on the movie and then I would be
• 32:50
  right next to her working on Mira.
• 32:51
  I would be the one with the headphones in and so I could
• 32:53
  hear her call. So I would like hear.
• 32:55
  You and hear the whole crews. So like I would joke that like I
• 32:58
  was able to see. Portions of the movie
• 33:02
  peripherally. I prided myself on being like, I
• 33:05
  don't want to actually see the full thing until we did.
• 33:07
  We did like a friends and family screening before it premiere
• 33:10
  over at the El Capitan. That was the first time I saw it
• 33:13
  in full. And that was like, yeah, really,
• 33:15
  really cool. So and I always felt very, it
• 33:17
  was cool because there were all these people that that I was
• 33:20
  relatively friendly with because of how long she's worked with
• 33:23
  with with them. So it was nice to kind of see
• 33:25
  everybody's names and the credits and get to see everybody
• 33:27
  there in person. This is one of the one of the
• 33:29
  first big, like Avengers in person events that everyone got
• 33:32
  to do after coming. What's the movie premiere?
• 33:34
  The crowd moment Just, you know, for her and her whole crew and
• 33:37
  you can use. Yeah.
• 33:38
  She was incredible. She really was incredible.
• 33:40
  And keeping that going and wrangling at all and making sure
• 33:43
  that it was awful. Her and Janelle were just really
• 33:45
  on top of it. So yeah.
• 33:46
  Yeah, them and asking everybody is we kind of, I've already
• 33:49
  dipped a bit into it, but like in terms of somebody who wants
• 33:53
  to get into editing or someone who wants to get into animation,
• 33:56
  if you have advice for people. Yeah, I think the biggest thing
• 33:59
  is if you want it edit, be an editor, edit.
• 34:02
  So it is, it is reaching out, it's getting really boots on the
• 34:05
  ground and getting scrappy. And so it's reaching out to
• 34:09
  anyone and everyone that you think may need an editor.
• 34:12
  And that could be that like, because you're not going to get
• 34:15
  a studio job right out the gate. I mean, maybe, maybe, I don't
• 34:18
  know, but I think you have to put yourself out there and go to
• 34:23
  film groups, go to screenings, go to the universities, put up a
• 34:27
  fire that says editor, free editor for your student work,
• 34:31
  cut some student films. I think that network then grows
• 34:35
  and builds and that's how I did it.
• 34:38
  So that's the only way that I can say that I know it works is
• 34:41
  just going to it's awful and sometimes payable to do that
• 34:44
  networking thing, but get outside and go where people who
• 34:49
  will need editors will be. And then just force yourself to
• 34:54
  say hello, give your name, exchange and Instagram.
• 34:56
  Give a business card if you have one.
• 34:58
  That is important and because you cannot wait for someone to
• 35:02
  give it to you. Editing is such a silent behind
• 35:04
  the scenes. You don't, you don't know it
• 35:06
  unless you you see it and feel it that it's bad.
• 35:09
  If it's good, you will never, you'll never sense it, right.
• 35:11
  You'll be like, wow, this is just a great movie.
• 35:13
  And so as an editor, you need to speak up.
• 35:17
  You need to go out and be like, hey, this is what I do and I do
• 35:20
  it well. I mean, I remember editing films
• 35:23
  for real cheap, real cheap, just because I wanted to work with
• 35:27
  the people that I was working with.
• 35:28
  And I was doing other jobs while I was doing that was bartending,
• 35:32
  and it was I was making websites, I was doing production
• 35:35
  photography, but I was hustling so that I could just make a
• 35:38
  living and then keep pursuing the editing until it landed.
• 35:42
  Yeah, I've been I've been saying that like it's it's it's great
• 35:45
  that there are so many non traditional, non studio, non
• 35:50
  professional, big professional editing job avenues out there
• 35:53
  for editing and even just like learning programs.
• 35:56
  There's so many new, there's so many new or free programs and
• 35:59
  Davinci Resolve, there's a free version and that's, you know,
• 36:02
  that is professional level software that that anyone can
• 36:05
  download and learn how to use and, you know, YouTube tutorials
• 36:09
  or learning the programs. But just kind of getting used to
• 36:14
  the variety of of stuff that you could be working on.
• 36:16
  Because I think one of the things that I find at the level
• 36:20
  that we're at is that people kind of really quickly
• 36:23
  pigeonhole you into like are you're the animation editor,
• 36:25
  you're the comedy editor. Even myself was dipped into like
• 36:28
  kids animation and and whole animation.
• 36:31
  And the more you can diversify this type of stuff you work on,
• 36:34
  even if you know that you can work in any style, you want to
• 36:37
  be able to show someone that you can, because people are not
• 36:41
  going to assume that based on your your, your credits.
• 36:43
  There's a growing world of Indian animation out there
• 36:46
  that's not studio, it's just the people doing it independently.
• 36:49
  Maybe it's some like big name creators that are deciding to do
• 36:52
  it. They post it on YouTube or, or
• 36:54
  their own sites or whatever, some of the free services and,
• 36:58
  and yeah, you know, it's, it's yeah, yeah.
• 37:00
  I was just going to say more and more, I think that you're going
• 37:03
  to have creators, animators or artists who are creating shots.
• 37:07
  Again, I'm going back to the AI world because it's it's
• 37:10
  happening, but you're going to have them.
• 37:12
  They're going to have a lot of assets.
• 37:13
  They're going to have a lot of shots, but they're not going to
• 37:16
  have the skills or the knowledge of how to put together a comedy
• 37:20
  short or a comedy feature or a comedy episode or a horror
• 37:24
  episode or it doesn't even matter that.
• 37:26
  But like the editing and the style and the timing.
• 37:28
  You're going to be ahead of the game if you like, have done more
• 37:32
  of that. So like putting yourself out
• 37:33
  there and doing it, I think. I was curious and I've been
• 37:36
  asking people about kind of some of their outside of editing
• 37:38
  hobbies and talents and passions, if you wanted to pick
• 37:43
  one or Combination 1 to talk about, yeah.
• 37:48
  Because, yeah, because I mean, like, why not, Why not just do
• 37:51
  more on top of being creative and working up OPS?
• 37:54
  And that sometimes I think as a as an editor, as a creative
• 37:57
  person, you know, I love, I love working on pops.
• 38:01
  I love being creative there. And yet that's something
• 38:04
  sometimes, you know, you'll want to be creative for yourself or
• 38:06
  to get out and do something for yourself that's outside of that.
• 38:09
  But for me, being creative is creating more content.
• 38:13
  So, yeah, so I, I mean, I have my own YouTube channel, which is
• 38:16
  this week in Query History. And I was in a place where I
• 38:20
  needed to find some inspiration and hope.
• 38:22
  And so I looked to the past and looked at some struggles that
• 38:26
  the LGBTQ community had had suffered in the past and like,
• 38:30
  how did they get through it? How can we get through it now?
• 38:33
  And so I just drove in and started making episodes, and
• 38:37
  that's been really fun. I'm working on a book too, which
• 38:39
  also is about queer history. That's really fun.
• 38:42
  That'll be coming out later this year, hopefully.
• 38:45
  If I could just stay on top of that schedule and keep time
• 38:47
  blocking going so that I can work on my own project.
• 38:50
  I time block for my own stuff too.
• 38:53
  And I am using I'm like way into AI and using it not just for
• 38:58
  creation, but for like management organization.
• 39:02
  I have it also for my YouTube channel.
• 39:05
  I have it doing all the closed captioning because I don't want
• 39:09
  to spend time to go through the closed captioning and clean up,
• 39:11
  fix, fix all of the spellings, make sure that abbreviations are
• 39:15
  correct punctuation because sometimes even Premier does it.
• 39:19
  So I had my AI agent go through and I just send it the SRT file
• 39:25
  from Premier, which is the closed caption file.
• 39:28
  And I have, I have it comparing it with the script that I wrote,
• 39:31
  the initial script, and then it takes everything from there, the
• 39:34
  proper nouns and everything and cleans it up and gives me a
• 39:37
  cleaned up version so that I can just drop it in.
• 39:39
  But that's an hour that I now have back in my life that I can
• 39:42
  be creative doing something else that's really powerful.
• 39:45
  I have it plugged into my little network at home and it manages
• 39:47
  all the files, make sure stuff gets organized.
• 39:50
  So it's acting as an assistant for me when I export an episode,
• 39:54
  it's creating the shorts for me. So I, I'm using another platform
• 39:59
  that creates shorts. And so it'll upload it.
• 40:01
  It finds the shorts, downloads it creates thumbnails for them
• 40:04
  so that I can again do the creative part and not have to
• 40:09
  worry about because social media is a beast.
• 40:11
  Then who has time to like do all of that stuff?
• 40:13
  Yeah, I try to do my best. I've created the content.
• 40:17
  Why can't it just be a short now?
• 40:18
  But so that is a beautiful and amazing tool that I'm using.
• 40:22
  Of course it's helping me write scripts and then I can clean
• 40:25
  those up, making sure that they. Stay in my voice and that it's
• 40:29
  what I want to say. So I'm really, I'm really into
• 40:32
  it. And of course, like image
• 40:33
  generation for thumbnails on YouTube for vertical and
• 40:37
  horizontal thumbnails. I played with 11 Labs too for
• 40:40
  cloning, vote voice cloning. And so if I've screwed up there,
• 40:44
  and this is something that's interesting as an editor, you
• 40:47
  know, you have to make sure that everyone is on board and that
• 40:50
  you've got approval from whoever the person is.
• 40:53
  I'm the artist in my YouTube film, in my YouTube episodes.
• 40:56
  And so if I flop a line or if I do some research after I've
• 41:00
  recorded and I'm like that pronunciation is completely
• 41:04
  wrong. If I have B roll up, I'm like,
• 41:06
  great, you know what? I'm just going to I'm going to
• 41:09
  have and I will take it to 11 labs and clone how it's supposed
• 41:13
  to be said, export that audio and drop it into the cut in my
• 41:17
  voice because I have a a clone of my voice.
• 41:20
  So that has saved me many times. So I don't have to set up the
• 41:23
  camera, get the audio equipment recorded and then go through the
• 41:27
  audio processing. I've already got my cleaned up
• 41:29
  EQ D voice on 11 Labs and can just drop script, drop text
• 41:34
  lines, or I can do a voice to voice and then I'll upload that
• 41:38
  audio, have it clone it to the clean up EQ D voice and bring it
• 41:42
  down. So that's something that I have
• 41:45
  loved and used. So I like way into AI trying to
• 41:48
  like clean up, make the creative better, get the organization and
• 41:53
  the just the busy work out of the way so that you can be
• 41:56
  creative again. It's like the more time you can
• 41:58
  have to be creative, the better. Yeah, it's interesting because
• 42:01
  I'm you kind of gave me a rundown of of what you're of
• 42:04
  what Yeah, I guess actually technically the AI gave me a
• 42:06
  rundown of what, yeah, of the whole process.
• 42:08
  And it's interesting because the more I've I've kind of seen of
• 42:13
  what goes into content creation and having YouTube channels and
• 42:16
  all this kind of stuff. And when you're a single, single
• 42:19
  person, you know, singular creator doing it, I keep saying,
• 42:22
  like YouTube's built of this industry around us as we were
• 42:25
  all working in Hollywood. And, and there's all these steps
• 42:27
  that probably a lot of creators when you first started, like,
• 42:31
  you know, you didn't realize, like, Oh, I have to do all this
• 42:32
  stuff too. And I can't just like film
• 42:34
  myself saying the thing and post it.
• 42:36
  There's services that you could hire people that do it, but if
• 42:39
  you don't have the, the the money to do that, this this is
• 42:42
  an alternative. And also, I guess we should
• 42:44
  clarify too. You know, you mentioned that
• 42:45
  like you have it all run essentially running locally on
• 42:48
  your own on a system you have at home.
• 42:49
  And so you're most of this stuff is the compute is kind of coming
• 42:52
  from local locally and some stuff you're maybe going through
• 42:58
  for some of the services and. Yeah.
• 43:00
  So you have to be careful again because like I am using an LM,
• 43:02
  I'm using clod and so and I'm using API exchange API
• 43:07
  connection. So it's, it's costing every time
• 43:10
  that I send a request and it sends something back, it's, it's
• 43:13
  costing money. So you have to find the balance.
• 43:16
  And that's the hard part too, is like on a budget, sure, I'm
• 43:19
  saving money by not having to like hire a huge team like which
• 43:23
  I wouldn't be able to afford, right.
• 43:25
  But then like, how much can I spend where I'm at?
• 43:28
  And like, what are the, what are the things that I can do?
• 43:31
  But you have to. Yeah, it's still very valuable.
• 43:33
  Yeah. And I think, you know, maybe a
• 43:35
  lot of YouTube people are doing versions of what you're doing
• 43:39
  and have already kind of jumped on using AI to do a lot of their
• 43:42
  back end stuff. But I feel like a lot of
• 43:44
  Hollywood studios from the top level down ask to how do we
• 43:49
  incorporate AI into our pipelines and stuff like that?
• 43:52
  And there's a lot of strife between between that request
• 43:57
  because we've been doing this for, you know, a hundred, a
• 44:00
  hundred years. We know how to make things and
• 44:03
  make things on on on schedule and on budget.
• 44:05
  But is this a tool that studios can use to start cutting
• 44:09
  budgets? But in asking people to be like,
• 44:11
  all right, how can you use an A use AI to make your job faster?
• 44:15
  But then it's also like, all right, but this also, you know.
• 44:18
  You're going to cut your assistant?
• 44:19
  Yeah. So it's like you.
• 44:20
  Know on the morality grounds, part of the conversation that I
• 44:24
  feel like doesn't get brought up a lot is the kind of context
• 44:27
  around the, the morality of it where it's like you doing this,
• 44:31
  you would be doing all these yourself because you are not
• 44:34
  currently in, in a mode to be hiring 10 other people to do
• 44:38
  this. And you've decided I'm going to
• 44:40
  put in the investment for this local computer stuff and, and,
• 44:45
  and have the subscriptions that you need to a certain extent.
• 44:49
  That's probably like you said, like cheaper for you than hiring
• 44:53
  X amount of people to do. Yeah, I don't want to put too
• 44:56
  much out there, but I, I know of, of certain situations where
• 44:59
  studios have asked companies that maybe have been a little
• 45:03
  morally unopposed to, to using Gen.
• 45:06
  I at Gen. AI at all.
• 45:08
  And kind of having a, an ultimatum being like, well,
• 45:13
  you're either working with us and, and we're making you use
• 45:15
  this technology or you're not going to have this project
• 45:17
  anymore. And so that's not a, a conundrum
• 45:21
  that that you as an individual YouTuber are having to deal with
• 45:24
  because that's a choice that you're making to do so.
• 45:26
  Yeah, I don't want to get too much into like, you know, my own
• 45:30
  personality. Yeah, we we've done it on
• 45:33
  previous. Episodes so I don't want yeah,
• 45:34
  I'll get. Into it, I mean, just to add my
• 45:37
  own personal though, I can see it because a show that is fun
• 45:41
  and people watch like if it was made by AI, would the general
• 45:45
  public be like, I'm not gonna watch it because but if
• 45:49
  everybody is watching it, they enjoy it and it's there will be
• 45:51
  people I believe like, you know, champagne is from champagne.
• 45:55
  Do I only drink champagne from champagne?
• 45:57
  No, I mean I drink Prosecco or bubbles.
• 46:00
  You know, I was frozen with bubbles anywhere.
• 46:02
  So it's like, how often do I drink champagne?
• 46:04
  How often will they be like I only watch human made episodes?
• 46:10
  There will come a point because studios, the beast of the studio
• 46:14
  is they want to make money and it will come down to what does
• 46:18
  it cost, can it be cheaper? And then why aren't you doing it
• 46:22
  that way? Because you will see feature
• 46:26
  length, Pixar quality features start to come out in the next
• 46:29
  couple of years that are made by college, maybe just college
• 46:34
  people that have not graduated out of high school or I might be
• 46:38
  a little extreme, but it is going to be possible.
• 46:41
  And so is the studio going to keep spending hundreds of
• 46:44
  millions of dollars for a studio that is making maybe a couple of
• 46:48
  those films at that extreme cost when it's like the cost is less.
• 46:52
  So that's where I think the quality and the people who are
• 46:55
  creatives now in the industry now who are in Hollywood, you
• 46:59
  have to say, yes, yes, AI generated content you want,
• 47:02
  we'll start bringing it in. But it still takes time and it
• 47:06
  still takes an artist to look at every shot and to say, that's
• 47:10
  great, His hand has four fingers and we need to redo this shot
• 47:14
  two more times before we get it right.
• 47:16
  And the studio may be like, no, you did it once and we see it's
• 47:19
  fine. Like no, no, no, no.
• 47:21
  We want the quality of where we were before, but it's going to
• 47:24
  still need that creative artistic eye on it.
• 47:29
  So I don't think it's all or nothing.
• 47:31
  And I do think that it's going to be a blend.
• 47:32
  And I do think that, but I do feel like the studio model, the
• 47:36
  old studio model is not going to last.
• 47:38
  It's not like just say yes, because everybody's saying yes,
• 47:41
  but also don't be don't turn your head when electricity is
• 47:45
  being put in every house and now we're going to have light bulbs.
• 47:47
  Like at that time, what people were like, this is witchcraft.
• 47:51
  This is like, we only use candles.
• 47:53
  How would you ever put like that thing in your house?
• 47:55
  So the transition is happening. And so like, where do you where
• 47:59
  do you find yourself and how do you survive in this shift?
• 48:03
  I think everybody has to think about it and and at what level
• 48:06
  are you going to be like, this is where I say no and I do want
• 48:10
  a human a part of this. That's my right.
• 48:13
  Yeah, I think, I think this actually may naturally bring us
• 48:16
  into a section. Freak out or geek out where one
• 48:20
  of us picks something to, to freak out about.
• 48:22
  Maybe they're, they're nervous about it's anxious about
• 48:25
  whatever. And the other one, you know,
• 48:27
  it's a topic to, to geek out about.
• 48:29
  I feel like we've kind of almost naturally picked our lanes here.
• 48:33
  Do you want to keep going with with with some of this stuff or
• 48:36
  or kind of shift into something else you're kind of seeing that
• 48:41
  AI is doing? Or or that you've.
• 48:42
  Done with it that you want to kind of geek out about?
• 48:45
  Yeah, I then I'll. Find then I'll respond by
• 48:47
  freaking out about it the same thing.
• 48:48
  For sure, yeah, yeah, for sure. I think right now I'm really
• 48:52
  into. So I was like way I I still am
• 48:56
  into open claw and I have that's my agent, the AI agent is open
• 49:00
  claw open source agent. So I'm possibly switching over
• 49:03
  to Hermes. I don't know, don't let my open
• 49:05
  claw agent hear me say that. But so really, I mean, and do
• 49:09
  you know the the what kind of the basics of open Claw and
• 49:12
  Hermes of what they. Are I know.
• 49:14
  Yeah, so they are kind of like web browser.
• 49:17
  You can get on the web through Chrome, through Safari, through
• 49:21
  Firefox, and they reach the Internet, right?
• 49:24
  They find the information that you can, you can go out there
• 49:26
  and find all of that through those browsers.
• 49:28
  They are like the platform that gets you there.
• 49:30
  That's all that these AI agent platforms are open.
• 49:34
  Claw and Hermes are the two big ones right now, both open
• 49:37
  source, open to everybody to download.
• 49:39
  But what they are is they're the intermediary between the LMS and
• 49:44
  you. So you'll go to Claude and
• 49:46
  you'll type in your thing. You'll say, like, I need to, you
• 49:50
  know, find the best editing software right now.
• 49:54
  And I need to know what I need to download, act like a
• 49:57
  professional editor and give that to me.
• 49:59
  And so it'll go out. Claude will just do the thing.
• 50:01
  And it pulls that back. And it says, here you go.
• 50:03
  This is the information that lives in that chat.
• 50:06
  That's it. It's done.
• 50:08
  It sort of has memory and it can have context.
• 50:10
  So if you go back and you'd be like, Oh yeah, I remember you
• 50:12
  search for this thing. What open client Hermes do is
• 50:15
  they then hold that memory and say, oh, you are looking for
• 50:19
  editing software. So that when you come back and
• 50:22
  you're like, I'm looking for plugins, it'll be like for
• 50:25
  Premiere, which we talked about before and this is the best one
• 50:28
  for the version that you downloaded.
• 50:30
  So it, it kind of retains and holds and keeps that
• 50:33
  information. Then it also you can have it
• 50:36
  schedule tasks for it to do. So weekly, every week on Monday,
• 50:40
  I want you to go out. I want you to search the web and
• 50:42
  find the latest articles on editing software, all the latest
• 50:46
  advancements, whatever. And then I want you to give me a
• 50:47
  report on anything that you think I should be using as an
• 50:51
  animation editor. That's it.
• 50:53
  You say it once, it does the thing.
• 50:54
  Every Monday you get a little e-mail or a notice in Slack or
• 50:58
  through Telegram, whichever you set up, and it says, here are
• 51:01
  the latest advancements. And this is what's particularly
• 51:04
  important for you and what you should be looking into.
• 51:07
  It's again, doing the thing you wanted to do.
• 51:11
  I have a look at my schedule and I say, hey, I really want to
• 51:13
  work on my book this week. Can you review where we're at
• 51:16
  with the book and tell me what we've done and what we need to
• 51:19
  do to finish up by September? It'll review everything.
• 51:22
  And then it says, these are your next steps.
• 51:24
  I'm going to look in your week. I'm going to give you 2/2 hour
• 51:26
  blocks this week for you to accomplish this, this, then
• 51:29
  this. So I'm using it for like my
• 51:33
  life, doing my thing, like keeping it going.
• 51:35
  It's definitely been amazing and helpful.
• 51:39
  It has because again, like it is taking it's costing.
• 51:44
  So you have a subscription to Claude or whatever service.
• 51:47
  I don't say the other couple because I'm like pro Claude, pro
• 51:51
  anthropic because they're they seem to have the best ethics to
• 51:54
  me. I mean, I could go on and on
• 51:55
  because I love, love, love the stuff.
• 51:57
  It, it, it takes time, but you know, it's, it's a, it's a fun
• 52:02
  journey and I think it's kind of like where we're moving towards
• 52:05
  and I love to be in the sandbox playing with new toys.
• 52:09
  Yeah, I think that that ties into my freak out.
• 52:11
  My general freak out is kind of what you just said.
• 52:15
  Like there is so much of this and so many options and so many
• 52:19
  things and everything's changing so often that like if you really
• 52:22
  want to get into it, like those who are interested in adopting
• 52:26
  it or incorporating it, if they are not tech industry people,
• 52:30
  they are having to turn into tech industry people that kind
• 52:32
  of keep up with everything that's happening.
• 52:34
  And to me, I've tried to keep up with things.
• 52:39
  And I find that like a lot of it just kind of feels like it's
• 52:42
  going over my head. And I haven't yet been able to
• 52:46
  find the like, oh, this one thing feels like this is
• 52:48
  something that I would use. And I talked on the one of the
• 52:52
  previous episodes with with Caleb about, about kind of some
• 52:55
  of the morality stuff. And the stuff that I am feel
• 52:59
  ethically fine about is, is the stuff the like non generative
• 53:03
  stuff that has been incorporating into in our
• 53:06
  editing tools? Because I think a lot of the
• 53:09
  automation stuff is really interesting.
• 53:11
  And I am intrigued by the idea of being able to run stuff
• 53:14
  locally and not always kick out requests to to a service in the
• 53:18
  cloud and data centers and all that kind of stuff.
• 53:21
  But I also don't know how many people are going to start using
• 53:26
  it that way in a way that that is, is ethical and moral first.
• 53:30
  And it seems like it's a wave that's approaching and everyone
• 53:35
  sees it approaching. And there's the people that are
• 53:38
  like, well, I already know how to surf, so I'm just going to
• 53:40
  jump in and surf this wave. And then there's people that's
• 53:43
  like, how do I learn to surf as fast as possible so I can.
• 53:45
  And then the other one's just like, I hate the water and I
• 53:48
  don't want to be, you know, so it's like I have.
• 53:50
  I move into the desert. Yeah.
• 53:52
  I don't think I want to see the ocean.
• 53:53
  But it kind of seems like a place where there there there
• 53:57
  maybe isn't a place to hide. So and I know that there's a lot
• 54:00
  of people that are that are in the same camp as me.
• 54:02
  The thing that always worries me that in that, you know, every
• 54:05
  time I think about a freak out for this episode, I'm just like,
• 54:07
  well, there's always this and there's.
• 54:10
  Like what's the specific? Anger.
• 54:12
  This week about it so. It feels hard to find a kind of
• 54:16
  ledge to latch onto. That kind of wells a lot of
• 54:20
  fears. And.
• 54:21
  So to me seeing you and we've talked offline about this kind
• 54:27
  of seeing all that you're doing that it's, it's interesting to
• 54:32
  to see the enthusiasm about it because there is a lot of like,
• 54:35
  oh, this is going to take all of our jobs and this is going to
• 54:37
  destroy creativity. And this is going to even some
• 54:40
  of the broader outside of Hollywood stuff, just the kind
• 54:42
  of like world ending potential disaster stuff of if these
• 54:47
  programs can learn everything that the human knows, they're
• 54:50
  going to know the nuclear codes and they're going to be able to
• 54:52
  press the button. Yeah, well, I mean, they just
• 54:55
  anthropic just had to pull back one of the latest models, Fable,
• 55:00
  because I don't know if it's political or if it really was
• 55:04
  like, Oh no, this is too dangerous.
• 55:06
  I don't know. But but it's like, yeah, it's
• 55:08
  it's it is. It can be scary where it's like
• 55:11
  these things, these machines, these algorithms can, they're
• 55:15
  starting to get very smart and to have all knowledge and all
• 55:18
  statistical next possible choice, next possible outcome in
• 55:24
  their grasp. That's interesting.
• 55:26
  It's really interesting and can be scary also can be a beautiful
• 55:30
  thing because all it knows, all it will ever be able to know is
• 55:34
  what has already been done. Yeah.
• 55:37
  So unless you start to be like, I just want random outcomes.
• 55:41
  But as a human, we are really good at at creating novelty.
• 55:47
  I think artists, artists, creative artists are looking at
• 55:51
  what's been done and finding a, a new way or something unique, a
• 55:55
  new way to tell the story, a new a new thing that is able to
• 55:59
  bubble up. And so right now, I don't think
• 56:03
  that that is there. It may be something that can
• 56:07
  eventually be created in the AIS and the algorithms to have
• 56:11
  randomness outside of what is statistically likely.
• 56:15
  But I think that's something that we really have in our in
• 56:18
  our grasp right now. And I think with looking back, I
• 56:20
  early on in my career, I worked with some really cool editors,
• 56:24
  really great editors who knew how to edit.
• 56:26
  One editor was like, I'm not going to learn.
• 56:29
  I've never had to learn Avid. I've only worked final cut and
• 56:32
  Premiere. I'm never going to.
• 56:33
  I don't need to, I don't want to learn it.
• 56:35
  And it stopped him from getting jobs.
• 56:38
  I know because I, I reached out to him and said, hey, there's
• 56:41
  this job. And he's like, I just don't
• 56:42
  know. And I don't think I could really
• 56:43
  do it. And I'm like, it's just a tool.
• 56:46
  Yeah, it's just a tool. It's not you're the editor.
• 56:48
  Your skills are there and it's just a tool.
• 56:51
  And so when I look at AI, I'm like, it is just a tool and it
• 56:55
  can do what we want. It can do good, it can do bad.
• 56:58
  But it is just a tool. And you need to know how to use
• 57:01
  the tool so that as you move forward, you're part of the
• 57:05
  world and not left behind. Like all the editors who are
• 57:08
  working on Miliolas cutting film.
• 57:10
  That's all, you know, physical film.
• 57:12
  And then and then the studio came along and said, hey, we're
• 57:15
  going to use this computer. And they said, Nope, Nope.
• 57:18
  And then eventually, the ties turned enough where it was like,
• 57:20
  they're not cutting on film anymore.
• 57:22
  Yeah. And and that luxury, when
• 57:25
  somebody goes to the movie, are they being like, this is film
• 57:29
  now, right? For the most part, 90% of the
• 57:32
  people are not going to do that. They're going because of the
• 57:34
  storytelling and the characters, the human part of what they're
• 57:39
  seeing. Not not the way that we got
• 57:41
  there. So, yeah, that is what I think
• 57:44
  we need to hold on to as we move forward through this big
• 57:46
  transition that's going to happen.
• 57:48
  Don't turn your head. I I think for me, that's that's
• 57:51
  the way I'm diving it, right? Yeah, I'm a little more risky of
• 57:54
  a surfer. I'm like, be on the board in the
• 57:55
  big waves. I don't care.
• 57:56
  I'll figure it out. Yeah, I think my that that has
• 57:59
  been one of my, at least for the creative industry, part of it is
• 58:02
  that I feel like whether all the studios start being like we're
• 58:05
  using it for everything and then it just kind of like totally
• 58:08
  changed the studio environment. I feel like there's always going
• 58:10
  to be independent people that are just like, Nah, I'm going to
• 58:12
  do my on my own. People are going to find an
• 58:15
  audience for it. And I think that we're not going
• 58:18
  to fully know if audiences, general audiences will accept or
• 58:23
  reject fully AI generated material until more stuff starts
• 58:28
  coming out. If AI slop is coming through as
• 58:31
  creatives, like talking about creative AI and generation, at
• 58:36
  what point, you know, do people say like that was if it pulls
• 58:40
  you out of the story, it's not good.
• 58:42
  And that's where artists and creatives, we have to say that's
• 58:45
  not good. That's not good.
• 58:46
  If something ever gets on Netflix and it's a generated and
• 58:50
  there's one shot where a hand has missing fingers or something
• 58:54
  is out of place or continuity is like really, you feel it, then
• 58:58
  we have to call it out. We have to say like, that's why
• 59:01
  I don't like this. That's why this doesn't work.
• 59:04
  If the story is good, if that is there and and we're able to
• 59:07
  like, what is that line? Where is that that cut off of
• 59:10
  where we're going to say yes, that's except they'll know it's
• 59:13
  not. We have to be on top of that as
• 59:14
  creative as an artist and always saying like, no, that's not OK.
• 59:17
  And and not just in our bubble, but like as in, you know, as
• 59:21
  consumers of entertainment as well.
• 59:23
  Yeah. And so if somebody who's not in
• 59:25
  the industry looks at it, it's like, that was weird, say, yeah,
• 59:27
  that was because that was AI and they didn't take the time to
• 59:31
  clean it up. They didn't have somebody who
• 59:32
  was artists who said that's unacceptable.
• 59:35
  So that's where we have to raise the bar as far as like what's
• 59:39
  acceptable with AI. I think that's a good place to
• 59:42
  to wrap it up and make it. Yeah, we could probably keep
• 59:45
  keep going in different on different paths and and going
• 59:48
  forever, but I'm not interested in, you know, this is this is.
• 59:53
  Snippets of conversations, yeah. That stuff has been going on
• 59:56
  between people and and it's good to kind of.
• 1:00:00
  Bring. Awareness to it, but and and
• 1:00:02
  have things for people to think about and you know, maybe we'll
• 1:00:04
  get a lot of comments or whatever about Adam.
• 1:00:06
  Yeah, thanks again for being here.
• 1:00:07
  You know, like I said you I appreciate all your insight and
• 1:00:10
  and your advice along the way throughout my career and
• 1:00:13
  hopefully, you know, continued success with the YouTube channel
• 1:00:15
  happy pride. Thank you.
• 1:00:16
  May not happy pride during pride month, but but it is awesome.
• 1:00:19
  Thanks for being here. Thank you.
• 1:00:20
  Yeah, thank you for everything you do and keep doing this.
• 1:00:23
  It's really exciting that you with this launch and and as you
• 1:00:26
  go, I'm excited to see it continue to grow and yeah, keep
• 1:00:30
  it going. Alright, thanks.