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The Happy Face Killer Wanted to Be Famous · Luke's English Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: He was sitting directly in front of me, a foot away,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and he's a huge guy, six six six' five three hundred,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: pounds and his knees were up to my chest and
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: his hands were on his. Knees And i'll never, FORGET
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: i said to, MYSELF i, said those hands strangled eight.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: WOMEN i spend a lot of time studying. Psychopathy these
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: are people so fixated on themselves that they're blind to everything,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: else not just, empathy but consequence restraint.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: REALITY i asked, HIM i, said could you kill?
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Me and he said IF i had, TO i, could
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: BUT i have no reason. To and THEN i, said
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: so you had a reason to kill these women and he, said,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: yeah of.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Course there are few offenders who opened that door the
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Way Keith Hunter jesperson. Does i've gone through police, files,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: interviews court, transcripts deep, research and very, rarely very rarely
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: does a killer give you this kind of, access.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Not just to what, happened but.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Why once he's called happy face, killer he embodies, it
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: he takes it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: ON i got a. Nickname Now i'm one of those. Guys.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Now between nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety, Five Keith jessperson
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: moved across five states as a long haul. Trucker after his,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: arrest he confessed to the murders of eight.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: Women he's known as the Happy Face killer because he
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: sent the media details of his homicides and would always
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: end it with a smiley.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Face jesperson wants to be. Known he inserts himself into.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Narratives he, writes he, talks he. Explains he's one of
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: the only Offenders i've come across who active participates in
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: research about, himself and in doing, that he's exposed how
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: his mind actually.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Works why'd you kill?
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: HER i was just pissed off because it wasn't any
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: parking spots in the reft area WHEN i came, in
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: AND i was tired and had his left for probably thirty.
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: Hours how just.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Fearedable so today you're not just hearing an account of
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: What jesperson. Did you're exploring how he. Thinks because this
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: kind of violence doesn't come out of. Nowhere it follows a,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: pattern one we've seen before and one that still exists
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: in more people than were comfortable.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: ADMITTING i realized THAT i had an opportunity to ask
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: a serial killer, anything and he was willing to answer.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Me I'm James Buddy.
• 2:48
  Speaker 6: Day this is.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: UNMARKED a relationship with a psychopath doesn't stay. Contained it
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter who you, are a, journalist an, author a,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: researcher or someone who doesn't realize what they're dealing with
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: until it's already. Underway i've seen this up. Close i've
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: talked to people who've lived, it and the pattern it's
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: always the. Same they don't let go because these personalities
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: what they're always. Chasing it isn't.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Connection psychopaths in, general.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Especially serial killers who are, psychopaths.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: They crave.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Stimulation they need to be stimulated all the.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Time that's M William, phelps, author, investigator someone who's spent
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: decades inside these. Cases he's written more than twenty seven
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: books and hosts shows Like crossing The line And Paper,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: ghosts and out of everything he's worked, on there's one
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: case that didn't just stay on the. Page it followed him.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Home Keith, Hunter jessperson.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Over one hundred.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: HOURS i spoke to him over one hundred. Hours and you,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: know in the closet in my office, HERE i have
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: over nine thousand pages of letters that we.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: EXCHANGED i have.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Hundreds of letters from. HIM i haven't even opened.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Yet before we go any, deeper let me catch you.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Up at one, Point Keith, Hunter jesperson claimed he had
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: as many as one hundred and sixty. Victims don't believe.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: It what we can actually confirm is eight eight women Across, California, Florida, Nebraska, Oregon,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: washington And, wyoming all over a five year period ending
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety. Five but what Makes jesperson's case different
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: is that he has this insatiable need to be.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: UNDERSTOOD i mean he would send me, three four or
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: five letters, week each of them twenty notebook pages on both.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Sides you, know SO i couldn't keep up with.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It but, yeah AND i went out to visit him many.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Times there's a term for. That it's called.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Hypergraphia an overwhelming compulsion to. Write jessperson's isn't just a
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: need for, attention it's something. Else he documents everything, constantly
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: obsessively because in his mind it matters more than anything.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Else he believes people will, care and that needs to be.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Recorded this is how someone Like jessperson navigates the.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: World, empathy, love caring about, somebody sympathizing with. Somebody they
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: don't even feel any of that.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Stuff and really.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: They have no idea why you, know it's just it's
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: not in.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Them you've probably heard the term, sociopath which is different from.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Psychopath sociopathy is a diagnosis, clinically it's tied to criteria
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: outlined in manuals like THE dsm five Tr it relies
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: heavily on observed, behavior and that's not really what we're
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: talking about. Here we're talking about something much. Broader, psychopathy
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: a fundamental structure of the mind that's been debated for,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: decades going back at least to a book Called The
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: mask Of sanity in nineteen forty, one but even now
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: there isn't a single clean. Definition in the eighties and,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: nineties Researcher Robert hare developed what's called The Psychopathy. Checklist
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: it's a tool used by clinicians to assess. Offenders but
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: even that is being re examined because it confounds who
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: someone is with what they've. Done SOMETHING i spoke about
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: with M William. Phelps that's such an interesting paradox with
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: the these men in that they are, grandiose like you,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: said and they want the spotlight on, them yet at
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: the same time they will lie about, everything they deceive
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: constantly and they don't recognize that their psychopathy blinds them
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: from what really, happened what really is going.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: ON i, mean that's the gist of, it, right that
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: is really at the core of, this, right you, know
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: because they are, psychopaths that psychopathy doesn't allow them to see.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: It so for, today here's the simplest way to think about.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: It psychopathy comes down to three traits that build on each.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Other grandiosity someone who sees themselves as the center of.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Everything from that you get the second, trait. Callousness what
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: happens to other people doesn't really. Register and when you're
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: both grandiose and, callous it's an easy step to the third.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Impulsivity whatever they feel in the moment they act on.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: It put those together and you get a very specific
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: way of seeing the, world, narrow self, centered like everything
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: is being filtered through a keyhole where you're always at the,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: center and other people they don't fully. Register and that
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: brings us back To Keith, hunter jesperson because he doesn't
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: just fit this, pattern he leans into. It where's it
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: openly in, Fact and to understand how a mind like
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: this comes, together you have to go all the way
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: back to the. Beginning Keith Hunter jesperson Is canadian. Born
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: he's From, Chiliak British, columbia a few hours From, seattle
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: born in nineteen fifty. Five four, siblings and according to the,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: material we have the signs of who he will become
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: show up.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: EARLY i delved into his childhood with him a. Lot in,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: FACT i asked him, ONCE i, said, LISTEN i need
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: a timeline of your. Life he sent me three of
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: those fifth grade type, notebooks marble notebooks with the marble
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: black and white, cover three of them full six hundred,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: pages and he started in the eighteen hundreds In, denmark
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: where The jesperson family originated. From in those, books he
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: mentioned his mother in six hundred pages one, time and
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: then he blames his father for.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Everything that stands out to me six hundred, pages and
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: his mother appears. Once contemporary reports describe his father Less
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: jessperson as overbearing. Alcoholic over the, Years keith has made
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: claims like he was charged room and bored while his
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: siblings paid. Nothing but we have to be careful here
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: because what you're seeing is a version of events centered
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: entirely On Keith, jesperson where fantastic extremes become part of
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: his origin.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Story jesperson also told me the story once that he
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: was with his dad one day and they're driving on
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: a back road up In British, columbia and he's, young, fifteen, sixteen,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: whatever and the dad is drunk and the dad hits
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: somebody who's walking and kills the. Guy and he, says
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: my dad just dragged that, guy threw him in the,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: woods and we took off and nobody knew the. Difference
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: he said that taught me that you could get away with.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Murder now DO i believe that. Story it's hard for
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: me to believe that. Story you, know that seems like
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: A jesperson drama.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: That he created for. Himself you, know that story is.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Familiar i've heard versions of it before other, offenders Like Hayden,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Clark they've created similar, memories moments in their childhood where everything,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: clicked where they learned they could get away with. It
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: and In jesperson's, case just Like Hayden, clark there's no
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: evidence any of this ever, happened but it shows you
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: something about how his mind, works not just what he,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: experienced but how he rewrites it. Instead by all, Accounts
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: jesperson has early predictors of, psychopathy, irritability poor emotional, control
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: a tendency to take whatever's happening around him and turn it.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Inward according To, jesperson whatever he did was never good
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: enough for the. Dad he had no control over his,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: life living under his father's, thumb zero.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Control he was.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Told what to, do he did. It if he didn't do,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: it there was a price to. Pay whether he was
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: blamed for something he didn't get what he, wanted or
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: his father hit him with the, belt or whatever it,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: was he paid a price and he had no control
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: over his.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Life there are also reports of early morning signs like animal,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: cruelty fire, setting bedwetting what's called the McDonald, triad but
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: that theory it doesn't hold up the way people think it.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Does the McDonald triad was proposed in the nineteen sixties
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: based on, small poorly controlled, samples and later research has
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: not supported it as a reliable predictor of. Violence the
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: problem is it confuses symptoms with, cause like treating a
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: fever as disease instead of a sign that something else is.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Wrong so When jesperson points to memories of these, behaviors
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: it's worth asking whether he's describing something, real or trying
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: to fit himself into a story that already, exists because
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: what we actually see is something more. Grounded Keith jesperson
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: is an isolated adolescent struggling to understand why social cues don't,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: land why connection does not come.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Naturally his nickname Was.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Igor he was a big, kid kind of. Clumsy nobody liked.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Him his brothers picked on, him he got picked on in,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: school et, cetera et, cetera and then his father picked on.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Him Before keith attends high, school the family moves From
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: British columbia to The United, states settling In, Seal, washington
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: just outside Of, yakima a small town Where jesperson doesn't blend.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: In he stands.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Out his father used him as a scapegoat for the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: mistakes his father. Made so for an, example his father
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: was kind of a. Contractor one day his father put
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the back hole through somebody's, house knocked the wall. Down
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: he went inside and blamed it on Little. Keith things like, that.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And that brings us to the Moment jesperson often points
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: to as a turning point high. School by this, point
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: his size and his social isolation are working against. Him
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: he's not just an. Outcast jesperson has made claims that
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: he was sexually assaulted during this, period but after years
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: of conversations and, RESEARCH. M William feltz describes something. Different
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: what happened to him in high.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: School what he tells me is his brother and his brother's.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Friends one day he was walking down the hall and
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: they tackled. Him they took his pants, off and everybody
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: came around and laughed at.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Him in his own, Writings jesperson reframes this. Moment he
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: turns it into something.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Violent more.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Defining this is where you start to see the pattern,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: clearly experience distorted into, narrative narrative reinforcing, identity and once
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: that loop, begins the seeds of fantasy are.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: SOWN i did enough research with this.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Guy i've read his, Writings i've seen his. Drawings he's
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: an excellent. Painter he sent me dozens of PAINTINGS i
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: have stored away in the closet That i'll never look.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: At and his fantasy is a woman in the position
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: of he is in total control of that.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Person it's at this time That jesperson reports developing the
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: fantasies that will drive him in later, life and these
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: fantasies are the result of a vacuum real world deficits
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: that we Know jesperson has you. See jesperson himself participated
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: in a. Study it began in twenty fifteen and was
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: published in twenty and twenty two in The journal Of Personality.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Assessment it's Titled performance And Neuropsychological functioning in The case
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: of a Serial. Killer and what that research demonstrates is
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: That jesperson has difficulty identifying emotional states in other, people
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: particularly negative, emotions and this is more pronounced in his
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: innerc actions with. Women what that means is that his
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: psychopathy prevents him from accurately reading, people so his mind
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: it fills in the. Gaps and when you're getting it
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: wrong but you believe you're, right the only way to
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: make sense is to take. Control he needs.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: To have total control over this. Person that's his, fantasy
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: and that is really a fantasy for a lot of these,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: guys total.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Control as this fantasy, Develops jesperson describes a lifelong fixation
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: on becoming a serial. Killer, now whether that's true or
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: something he's rationalized after the fact is. Debatable something that
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: came up in my conversation WITH M William phelps he
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: is a modern era serial, killer and that he grew
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: up reading about other serial. Killers and you, know he
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: seems to be so enamored by his own fame he
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: participates in research studies about. Himself is it just this
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: insatiable need for attention he?
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Has today as we sit and, talk he and The
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Long island serial Killer Rex ewerman are exchanging. Letters So
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: jesperson inputs himself into that situation because he knows The
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Long island Serial killer is a much bigger story than
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: his story ever, was so he wants to be part of.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: It so that's what he's.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: About that correspondence says a. Lot jesperson has a need
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: to insert himself into bigger, stories bigger, names because he
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: needs to.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Matter jesperson loves to think he's the smartest guy in the,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: room and he thinks he can explain anything that has
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: to do with, killing serial, killing. Etc so for, him
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: it's all about being the smartest guy in the room
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: and being the spotlight of the, room having the spotlight
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: on him all the.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Time by nineteen seventy, Five jessperson is twenty years, old
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: but he's still on the outside, socially, awkward, rejected struggling
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: to connect to people in meaningful, ways and in that,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: context marriage offers something, simple a defined, role a relationship
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: he doesn't have to navigate in the same. Way that,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: year he marries his teenage Girlfriend Rose. Hawk they have three,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: children and on the surface it looks, stable but that
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: stability is.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Thin you.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Know he was more focused on getting sex out Of
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: rose or Dominating rose his. Wife and he was always.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Gone he was always on the. Road he was always
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: out on the, road so he really wasn't much of
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: a father at.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: All by the late, Seventies jessperson is working as a
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: long haul truck, driver eventually being hired by the Company
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Systems transport out Of, Cheney, washington a job that keeps
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: him on the road for days at a.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Time with little.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Oversight he was getting sex, workers paying for, sex picking up.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Women most serial killers have an addiction to, something you.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: Know most of them are alcohol or. Drugs you, know they're.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Addicts And, JESSPERSON i couldn't find it for the longest.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Time what was.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: It, well it's a combination for, him gambling and.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Sex gambling sex two things built around risk and, control
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: and they mapp directly onto the. Traits we've been talking about,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: impulsivity chasing the, moment the. Rush at this, time he's
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: acting without thinking about what comes, next and callousness because
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: the consequence and says don't really, land not on him
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: and not on the people around. Him and despite all of,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: it even with the, infidelity the, lying the constant, losses
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: his marriage lasts fourteen.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Years with his, KIDS i mean his kids he would
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: pick after the. Divorce he would pick them, up bring
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: him to a, hotel get a, pizza let him swim
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: in the, pool bring him back home at. Home he
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: was no father at. All by the late, Eighties jessperson
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: is living alone In East. Portland he's in a rundown
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: one level, home sleeping on a mattress on the. Floor
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: he spends most of his time driving. Truck when he's,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: home he walks to a nearby. Tavern and by nineteen
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Ninety portland is coming out of a pretty rough. Decade
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the timber industry has, collapsed working class jobs are disappearing Across.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Oregon so what you get is a split, city a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: revitalizing downtown core and an, expanding Underdeveloped East portland where
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: homelessness is growing and visible and it's this environment in
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Which jessperson first crosses the. Line the way he presents this,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: is you, Know i'm out my. GIRLFRIEND i just realized my,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: girlfriend whose House i'm living, in took off with another.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Trucker SO i went out to the bar and There's Tanya.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Bennett Tanya bennett the Woman jessperson meets at a local
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: tavern On january twenty, first nineteen. Ninety she's developmentally delayed
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: and struggling with. Homelessness throughout her. Life she's been involuntarily
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: committed to hospitals due to ongoing mental health issues that
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: she never. Overcomes she is what we mean when we
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: describe someone who is.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Vulnerable jesperson tells, me let's go back to my, place
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: and then when we get there and she pisses me,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: off she says something that flips him. Out according to,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: him BUT i don't believe any of. THAT i don't
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: believe any of.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: That jesperson's account of his crimes are filtered through his. Psychopathy,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: remember he struggles to recognize cues in other, people so
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: he projects them, instead and that results in a distorted
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: version of what actually.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Happened the other thing about him is with his victims
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: is he always blames.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: Them it's their.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Fault if they didn't do, this if they didn't do,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: that if they didn't say this to, ME i wouldn't
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: have done this to.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Them this is where his psychopathic traits come. Together, Grandiosity
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: he places himself at the center of this, interact. Callousness
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: what happens to his victim doesn't fully, register and. Impulsivity
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: whatever he feels in the, moment he acts.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: On he went out that, night he chose, her he
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: brought her back to his, place and he killed.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Her jessperson is back on the road the next. Day
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: bennett's body is discovered days later on a switchback in
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: The Columbia River, gorge about a mile and a half
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: from a Historic oregon landmark called The Vista house On Crown.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Point the autopsy lists her cause of death as, strangulation
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: and in the weeks that follow something happens That jessperson
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: could never have. ANTICIPATED a mentally ill woman Named Laverne
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: pavlanak implicates herself and her Boyfriend John, suvsnovsky in the,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: murder giving a detailed confession using information pulled from local.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Media she will later say she did this to escape
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: an abusive.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Relationship not only did he get away with that, murder
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: but two other people went to prison for that.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Murder pavlinak And suvsnovsky are arrested On march, fifth nineteen.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Ninety both are convicted On february, eighth nineteen ninety, one
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: and they serve five years before being exonerated By Keith
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: jesperson after his. Arrest but in nineteen ninety the media
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: reports Infuriate jessperson because his grandiosity demands that he be,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: recognized and when someone else is, blamed even if it protects,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: him it becomes. Intolerable this Is jessperson speaking To phelps
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: in a video call from two thy and, seventeen granting
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: about the.
• 25:50
  Speaker 7: Case she basically saw the line as a way to
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: get rid of her abusive boyfriend that was on parole or,
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: probation and every time on a new crime came, up
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: should call him and, Say John sostowski did this. Crime
• 26:03
  Speaker 7: you got to get him all the way from. It
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: you got to put him in.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Prison this goes on for a, while and it's telling
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Because jessperson is. Projecting he's not reacting to the. Injustice,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: remember he doesn't experience the suffering of others in the same. Way,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: instead he's outraged that his actions aren't being.
• 26:24
  Speaker 7: SEEN i need going to research this case for the
• 26:28
  Speaker 7: fact that the public needs to know what the prosecution
• 26:31
  Speaker 7: and the police officers did to convict two in some
• 26:34
  Speaker 7: people and put them in. Prison that's the real story,
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: here not the Fact i'm a. Murderer the fact is
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: that to how they put the people in.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Prison three months, later On april, thirteenth nineteen, Ninety jessperson
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: kidnaps Don, slagel a twenty one year old mother of,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: three from a shopping center parking lot In Mount, Shasta,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: california near THE i five. Corridor he attempts to assault
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: and murder, her but she escapes and finds. Police they
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Charge jessperson with sexual, assault and when he fails to
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: appear in, court a felony warrant is. Issued he's later
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: arrested In iowa at a wait check station after his
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: name is run through The National Crime Information center database
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: revealing the outstanding. Warrant, however the charge is inexplicably reduced
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: to a misdemeanor and the cost of extradition is deemed
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: not worth, it So jesperson is released.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: Months.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Later this oversight has a real world. Cost jesperson picks
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: up a, woman a victim whose identity he never.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Learns there's still one victim that's not, identified and that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Is claudia In.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: California according to contemporaneous reports from law, enforcement the woman
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: is believed to have been hitchhiking towards The Los angeles
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: area and caught a ride with a truck driver the
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: morning of her. Death investigators believe she was traveling from
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: The Las vegas Or barstowe region ALONG i. Fifteen what
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: we know is That jesperson murders her in his truck
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: and leaves her body along A highway ninety five Near
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: blyth where it's found On august, thirtieth nineteen ninety. Two
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: at the, time the investigation is.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: MINIMAL i spent two years working With florida authorities and
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: The Medical examiner's office down there trying to get enough
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: isotope analysis from her bones in order to put into
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: the familial genealogy forensic, genealogy and finally we ran out
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: of funds we couldn't do.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: It in, fact this victim remains on a identified even
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: though in recent years genealogists have identified her biological, father
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: who is now. Deceased we know he was From Cameron, County,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: texas but traveled extensively across the. Country several half siblings
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: have also been, identified but none share the same maternal,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: line and so they were unaware of the victim and
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: cannot assist in identifying. Her this Is jesperson speaking about
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the case With phelps'.
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: WAY i look at it as THAT i was open
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: with the plate when they first came at me with this,
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: lortacase AND i wanted to settle all my cases to
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: get him out of the.
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: Way NOW i already told them all the information they
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: needed to settle the.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Case this conversation is revealing Because jessperson is explaining his
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: true motivation for wanting this victim identified by.
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: Helping and by skidding like yourself and maybe some other
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: peop people involved in.
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: That it actually is a feather in my.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Cap oh, okay so you're doing it for your own.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Motivation it works.
• 30:10
  Speaker 6: All way across the.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Board jessperson opens more windows into his. Psychopathy even something
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: like victim, identification which should be about giving someone their name,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: back becomes self. Serving but back in nineteen Ninety jesperson
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: passes Through, Turlock, california meeting a woman he claims is
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: a sex worker who enters his truck at a truck
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: stop while he's. Asleep he says he murders her and
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: leaves the body In, Livingston, california near another truck stop
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: called The Blueberry Hill. Cafe this Is jesperson attempting to
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: recall the details of this.
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: Victim he's a blonde or something like.
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: That it was, dark But i'm assuming she's probably a strawberry,
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: blonde hair down to bout her shoulder length and.
• 31:04
  Speaker 7: The.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Kik now we have to dig into this. One jessperson
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: never learns his victim's true, name but after his arrest and,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: confession The Mercede County Sheriff's department identifies this victim As
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Cynthia Lynn, rose whose body was discovered behind The Blueberry
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Hill cafe near the base of a tree in a fetal.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Position but the autopsy report tells a different. Story according
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: to the medical, Examiner Cynthia Lynn rose died from a drug.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Overdose the autopsy notes that injuries to her, head including
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: a broken, jaw were not responsible for her, death and more,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: importantly do not Match jessperson's, Account.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: He says he didn't kill, her but they found her
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: there where he said he dumped the. Body they found
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: this Girl.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Rose according To phelps's, research When jessperson confessed in nineteen ninety,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: five investigators connected him to an existing report of a
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: deceased woman found near that.
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: Location the woman that they trying to say is mine
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: Was Citielen. Rose and they showed me pictures of that
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: of her WHEN i was going down to the, riverside
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: AND i, said, WELL i don't know who that.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Is he tells, THEM i buried a woman At Blueberry
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Hill cafe just so. Happens bang they find, her must
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: be his. Victim and then when he saw her, pitcher he, said,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: yeah that's not the GIRL i.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Killed To phelps and, Others jessperson maintains that the victim
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: he murdered in the fall of nineteen ninety two remains
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: buried where he left, her.
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: The one near the rest. AREA i took the tunic behind.
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: A Blueberry Hill cafe in the parking. LOT i still
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: believe that if she didn't get.
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: Up and walk, away she's still.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: There it's a parking lot now it has been paved.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Over The Blueberry Hill. Cafe that's where he dumped. Her
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: and he dumped her in an area where the trucks turned,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: around and there was like a three foot rut where
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: all the trucks turn. Around he put her in, there
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: put dirt.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Over she's still. There i'm convinced of.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: That but local investigators have closed the case for, now
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: and that's hard to sit with because these victims are
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: people who are overlooked in life and even in, death
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: they're still waiting to be. Seen case in, Point november
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, Two jessperson Murders Lori Ann, heentland a sex
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: worker he meets In, Salem, oregon who he claims tried
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: to overcharge, him leading to an argument that results in her.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Death this is just his, excuse.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: His kind of psychotic. Reasoning but his reasoning was always
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: they had burned, him or they had burned somebody, else
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and they deserved and they needed to.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Die pentland's body is found In november of nineteen ninety
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: two behind a store In, Salem. Oregon the medical examiner
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: determines she's been, strangled but it doesn't raise an. Alarm once,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: again the investigation is, minimal and we see this again
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: In jessperson's next victim In june of nineteen ninety, three
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: who won't be identified until two thouy and twenty. Two
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Patricia Patsy, skipple a native Of, Colton, oregon and a
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: mother of, two who disappeared from Her oregon home in
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: the middle of the night after an argument with her
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: husband On june, third nineteen ninety. Three another truck driver
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: finds her body Where jessperson has left it Along California
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: State route one point fifty two in The gilroy, area
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: about eighty miles south Of San. Francisco her disappearance and
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: her remains are never connected by authorities Until jessperson tells
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: them years later.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: In defense of law, enforcement.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Especially in this, case he's leaving bodies all over the,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: country so number one at the, time you, know between
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nineteen ninety, five it's kind of hard to
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: connect these at.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: All but that becomes the problem because by not connecting,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: them not only does this vulnerable population continue to be,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: overlooked But jessperson himself fixates on the fact that he
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: isn't being.
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: Seen about two weeks, LATER i write a letter to
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: the ongoing newspaper which follows on a desk and in that,
• 35:54
  Speaker 7: letter though it's the very top of the peguod one
• 35:57
  Speaker 7: little smiley.
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: Face NOW i don't even remember going.
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: IT i get one.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Of those if like an a half of.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Thought jessperson would always tell, me, uh he would, say,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: look ALL i did was send a letter to the,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: newspaper AND i doodled a happy face on the bottom of,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: it on the top of.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: It just as a.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: DOODLE i didn't do it to become the happy face.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Killer but that's what they called me when they saw
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: that happy.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Face But jessperson's actions suggest. Otherwise his need to be
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: recognized is, evident and the fact that he scrawls a
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: confession of sorts on a truck stop bathroom wall indicating
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: police have arrested the wrong.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: People once he's called Happy Face, killer he embodies.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: It he takes it. ON i got a.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Nickname Now i'm one of those. Guys Now i'm not
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: just some trucker out there killing. Women i'm the Happy Face.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Killer so he embodies that kind Of hollywood in midge
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: of who he.
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: Becomes WHEN i.
• 37:02
  Speaker 7: Was confessing in these, LETTERS i wantn't call her the absolute,
• 37:06
  Speaker 7: truth because IF i was they'd all break it all
• 37:11
  Speaker 7: down and come after me with the absolute.
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: TRUTH i FIGURED i tell him a little. Life hearing.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: That back In august of nineteen ninety, Four jessperson picks
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: up a twenty four year old sex worker Named susan
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: at a truck stop In. Tampa he drives with her
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: towards The Florida, panhandle where he murders her and leaves
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: her body near The whole exit On interstate.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Ten she was from The Upper.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Midwest everybody thought she was from down south because he
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: dumped her In, tampa but she just happened to be
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: down In florida when he picked her.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Up her remains are not found for more than a.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Year On september, fourteenth nineteen ninety, four her skeletal remains
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: are discovered by a road. Crew she isn't identified until
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: two thousand and twenty, three WHEN dna is used to
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: locate her next of, kin confirming her As.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: Suzanne schellenberg got some great exciting news that we've been
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: able to solve a homicide that's thirty years in the.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: Making the last unidentified victim of the Notorious Happy Face
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: killer has now been. Identified she is no longer A Jane.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: DOE i want to reiterate how PROUD i am from
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: these investigative team that we, have not just.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: That's Okaloosa County Sheriff Eric aiden in twenty and twenty.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Three AND i want to pause on this moment because
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: you see press conferences like this all the, time and
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: to be, clear this work matters the, investigators the, genealogists
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: the people who stay on these cases for. Years that
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: work is.
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: Real we've really had a good reputation here at The
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: sheriff's office for solving cold. Cases we've solved over a
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: dozen THAT i know of in the last ten.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Years but in cases like, this involving victims who were,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: vulnerable overlooked in, life there's something else that needs to be.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Said it took thirty years to get this. Right that's
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: not cause for. Celebration that's a moment for humility to
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: understand what was missed and to make sure that it
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: isn't missed. Again and that can be seen In jesperson's seventh,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Victim Angela.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Sabreeze he tells me he picks up this woman in
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: his truck and he's driving. Her you, know she, Says
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: i'm going across, country And i'm going to this guy's.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: House i'm pregnant with somebody else's, baby And i'm going
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: to tell this guy that it's his. Baby And jessperson
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: said to, ME i couldn't.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: Let her do.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: That that's, WRONG i, Said but killing her is. Right
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: maybe eight years later into the business relationship we, had
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: he writes.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: Me a letter and he, SAYS i. Lied that was a.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: Lie she never told me.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: That her body is found In september of nineteen ninety
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: five In. Wyoming at the, time few people even realize
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: that she's. Missing no one is really connecting many of
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: these victims to The Happy Face. Killer and If jesperson
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't murder a woman who can be directly tied to,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: him there's no reason to believe he will.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Stop he picks Up Julia winningham in his truck and
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: he goes into the house and he talks to her,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: mother so right there she knows the last person With
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: julia Is.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Jesperson On march, tenth nineteen ninety, five In, Washuga, Washington
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: jesperson Strangles julia And, winningham forty one Of, Camas, washington
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: a woman he is easily connected to.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Socially when they lock Onto. Jesperson they think that he
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: only Killed Julia, winningham his ex, girlfriend, right and that's
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: base how he gets. Caught he can't handle himself and
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: he ends up killing somebody he.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Knew jesperson is arrested On march, thirtieth nineteen ninety, five
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: for the murder Of Julie. Winningham he's questioned by police
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: and released because at that point they have little to
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: hold him, on and he simply refuses to. Talk but
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: in the days that Follow jesperson becomes convinced that his
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: arrest is. Inevitable he turns himself, in confessing to a
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: detective on, voicemail as well as writing a confession to his.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Brother he hopes that cooperation will result in, leniency but
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: once he's in, custody something else. Happens they have.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: No idea that he's killed all these women until he tells, them.
• 41:55
  Speaker 7: My biggest defense is a great, offense and that is
• 41:58
  Speaker 7: to push my guild down a vote to, say, OKAY
• 42:01
  Speaker 7: i did. This, now let's settle, this let's move. On
• 42:04
  Speaker 7: if you want to give me, LIFE thend to it.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Fine once in, Custody jesperson won't stop, talking, confessing inserting
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: himself into cases across multiple. States some are, accurate others.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Exaggerated many later.
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: Recanted i've never hidden behind a lawyer in my.
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: LIFE i, left you know what lawyer have to. SAY
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: i follow what you. KNOW i can't catch what they
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: have to, say AND i know what's Going but my
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: case study, is you know it's Inn just resolve the
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: whole thing and just move.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: On In november of nineteen ninety, Five jessperson pleads guilty
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: to the murder Of Julie winningham In Washington. State he's
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of. Parole
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: in the years that follow he's convicted of additional murders
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: across multiple, jurisdictions Including oregon And, california receiving multiple life,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: sentences and despite periods of claiming many more, victims investigators
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: have never been able to substantiate ANY.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I did tons and tons of research for years trying
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: to see if there are more bodies with, him and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: there just.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Aren't they're just not there BECAUSE i know that if.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: There, were he would admit to, it he would definitely
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: take credit for.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: It and that may be the clearest window and To,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Keith jessperson's, psychology because even here at the, end the
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: pattern holds not just the, violence but the need to be,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: seen to be, known to control the. Narrative the same
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: traits we've been tracking from the, beginning, grandiosity, callousness impulsivity working,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: together and there's a growing body of research that is
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: trying to map this. Out for, decades researchers have been
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: trying to understand what's happening inside the brains of these violent.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Offenders brain scan studies led by Psychologist Adrian rain have
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: shown consistent patterns reduced activity in areas tied to impulse,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: control decision, making and emotional, regulation physical differences in how
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: the brain processes, fear, empathy and.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: Consequence Adrian, rain.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: He did and he continues to do scans on psychopaths brain.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Scans in, Fact jesperson has donated his brain to me
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: to give To Adrian.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Rain when he, does.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: It's not an excuse but another piece of the.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Puzzle there's a missing hole in the psychopath and that's
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: the area of the brain where empathy, love caring about,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: somebody sympathizing what somebody would.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Be these brain scans give us another way to look
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: At jesperson's mind but even by agreeing to donate his
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: brain to research when he, dies we have to remember
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: this is not jessperson wanting to be. Studied it's a
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: serial killer who wants to, matter even in. Death before we,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: wrap we covered a ton of research in this. Episode
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: and if you're like me who loves spending Their sunday
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: nights with a glass of wine reading in depth psychology,
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: RESEARCH i will post WHAT i can for you On
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Unmarked Case files are research portal where you can examine
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: the evidence for. Yourself and for books this week if
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: you want to go. Deeper M William phelps's Book Dangerous
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Ground My friendship with A Serial killer is his definitive
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: account of his time with The Happy Face killer and
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: it's a great. Read and if you're looking for a
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: great true crime read my Book Charles Manson The Last,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: words available On kindle And amazon And Kindle, unlimited and
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: it recounts my decade of research into The Charles manson.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Case and, finally my grim dark fantasy, NOVEL A plague Of,
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: steel which is the first in a planned series That
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: i'm going to be writing for the next several. Years
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: it's now available in paperback On, amazon But you can
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: also read it On kindle And Kindle. Unlimited as, Always
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: unmarked is produced By John dido and edited By Dave.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Alderson our additional producer Is Jesse. Demiray until next, week
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: this Is unmarked