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Booktalk With Author Liv Zander · Moms That Read

0:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey you, yeah you with the never-ending TBR pile.
0:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's the moms that read podcast?
0:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Two book besties who love talking about all things books.
0:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a monthly book club, The Best Book Recs, and interviews with authors were basically obsessed with.
0:15
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to be a mom, just someone who stays up way too late finishing one more chapter.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Think of us as your book club BFFs without the pressure to actually clean your house.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So grab your coffee, cause the up, and join us for your next great read.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Realmsbury podcast.
0:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Ekinzy, and I'm Kaylee, and we have a special guest, live, zander, the author of Crown Me Day, Crown Me Yours, and many other dualities.
0:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you like to say?
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: What first inspired you to start writing books?
0:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh wow, you know, I always needed a creative outlet and I did a lot of crafting, right?
0:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the problem is that eventually I had all these craft to things in my house and nobody wanted to buy them.
1:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And my ex-husband got really annoyed because that shit was everywhere, you know, that they're falsed and they'd be corner and I figured that I need to find, I need to find a creative outlet that is not taking up so much space.
1:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, how about something digital?
1:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just store away.
1:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Although it, you know, um, I have so my house is so full with like printed books.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Technically, theoretically, I have a guest room, but the guest room is stuck to the ceiling with special edition.
1:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I guess the the problem kind of like came back.
1:35
[SPEAKER_02]: it doesn't let us so much anymore.
1:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the problems make any money.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So what does it matter now, you know?
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
1:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you written anything prior to that?
1:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I have, because like I'm from Germany, I wrote, um,
1:54
[SPEAKER_02]: in German and I was published in Germany.
1:57
[SPEAKER_02]: But the stuff that I wrote was like very different.
2:00
[SPEAKER_02]: The entire publishing landscape back then was very different.
2:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Indie publishing didn't really reach Germany until just a couple of years ago.
2:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I was always interested in writing.
2:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I just didn't know that you can make any money with it.
2:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I figured that out later.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: what first inspired you to start writing dark fantasy romance market analysis?
2:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
2:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
2:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
2:32
[SPEAKER_02]: No, like I always had the tendency to write darker.
2:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
2:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just what naturally comes more easy.
2:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
2:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can write something, I can write funny stuff, I can write rom-coms, you know, I can write all the content, make it like super fluffy, but my heart always goes back to the dark stuff.
2:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
2:59
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem is now that I don't write, I don't want to write contemporary romance because I love building my own worlds, the lore, the religions, the historical backstory and everything.
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: What if I combined them?
3:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was also looking at getting into a genre where the books have a longer shelf life, okay?
3:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have that with like, you know, fantasy.
3:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So I figured, what if I take dark romance because that's where my heart is, right?
3:52
[SPEAKER_02]: back then there was no, like Romanticie didn't exist.
3:56
[SPEAKER_02]: There was no dark fantasy romance, you know?
3:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
3:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I really had to look into like dark romance and look at the numbers over there.
4:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And the market and then I had to look into like fantasy and be like, okay.
4:09
[SPEAKER_02]: can I actually combine that?
4:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, let's give it a shot because my research told me that it's viable and it turns out that it was.
4:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that it was.
4:21
[SPEAKER_02]: That is that is how that happened, which was so funny because
4:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, as authors, we're like, okay, you know, I wrote this book and I have to publish it, which means I need to find the perfect cover for it, right?
4:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
4:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And back then, again, there was no romanticy around there was no, you know, there wasn't really a lot of like adult fantasy romance or dark fantasy romance.
4:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So I couldn't find any comparable books and be like, oh, they're using these covers with success, so I should use that too.
4:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Made it extremely difficult
4:55
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of like YA, you know, fantasy, and they used symbol covers.
5:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, what if I slap a symbol cover on my first book and they expect YA?
5:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, they're going to burn me at the stake, you know.
5:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, let's go with Manchester, okay?
5:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just...
5:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Set the tone, okay.
5:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is not why I, um, and I guess it worked.
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's different now because, you know, we can actually slap simple covers on it and people are like, get all know what's in it.
5:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm worried about it.
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
5:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like filthy who knows.
5:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but yeah, that was an interesting time.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you like to read other dark fantasies like now?
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that genre recently has expanded a lot but like do you prefer to just stay out of the reading aspect of it since you write it?
5:47
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of my readers know that and I know it's a great sin, okay?
5:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And I hate because like every interview every copot cast is like, are you a reader?
5:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So I have to live through this embarrassment.
5:59
[SPEAKER_02]: for an over again because I don't read, I don't read fiction, that's crazy, the last you love that, in the book I actually like don't get me wrong, yeah, I'm by all the book, right, right, right, and I'm like, oh I'm a read that, no, I'm not going to fucking get you, you know, the last book I read was fourth week in my dream, I was like
6:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I read a lot of non-fiction.
6:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I read a lot of like self-help books.
6:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I have a lot of like personal interest in psychology.
6:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And anything that goes in a direction in terms of like what problems do people have where do they come from, how do they solve them?
6:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's me to read.
6:44
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, non-fiction, no problem.
6:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I read.
6:47
[SPEAKER_02]: But give me a fiction book, you know.
6:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel so bad for my other friends, you know,
6:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm not, you know, I probably won't, but I really appreciate it.
7:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's not, it's not you, it's me, you know, like, I just, I'm not a reader, I'm not a reader, but also I have to read my own chapters, you know, over and over and over and over again, you know, when I'm in the office, in the evening, the last thing on my mind is like, oh, let's go and read something, you know, right, what about Aria Bugs?
7:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I can, I love non-fiction audiobooks, but fiction audiobooks actually, I fall to sleep, okay?
7:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if I'm having trouble traveling to sleep, I don't listen to a fiction audiobook.
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not that.
7:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really bad because when...
7:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when one of my books gets produced like into an audio book, I'm supposed to prove that, you know?
7:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, like listen to the entire thing and there are no if you found them as take and I am asleep seven minutes in and I
7:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't like I found no mistake.
8:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds fantastic.
8:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry to finish now I have an assistant.
8:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I can be like you go ahead.
8:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You you this right.
8:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I just I just can't I just can't it's so I love that Such an answer.
8:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's a different perspective and I don't like that's the first time I think and all three's told us that And I was like, okay, that's great.
8:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that
8:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, are you someone who comes up with the plot first or do you just kind of write when it comes to you?
8:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a little bit of a hybrid because most people most readers are aware that you know most most authors put themselves in like a category they're like a pancer or they're like a plotter but I'm a very weird kind of like hybrid in between meaning that
8:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, all my books are very character-based, you know, where they come from, what they need to learn, how they need to learn it.
9:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And I plot their character art, and I plot what major points need to happen, you know, to move them along.
9:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of times I might actually start...
9:14
[SPEAKER_02]: like outlining a book by looking at the end, you know, because usually at the end you're supposed to have like the opposite of what you're starting starting.
9:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
9:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So I have these, you know, like we start out like this is the inside incident and like this is the midpoint and this is what happens.
9:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of times, everything between those major plot points is usually pantsed, you know?
9:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes I even find myself in a situation where all this pantsing to get from one plot point to the next changes the major plot point and then I need that I like reassess.
9:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And I usually don't interfere with that honesty.
9:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have a go-to-Ikea, Wendy?
9:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
10:23
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I just don't trust my best, but it's like, you know, but for the most part, I just let them do their thing.
10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just hope that they're going to get picked up very soon.
10:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is that's my approach.
10:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, kind of talking about some of your characters, like the way that you write villains, we obviously become obsessed with them.
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do you like, what do you think makes these villains that you create so compelling with the readers?
10:53
[SPEAKER_02]: thing what makes them compelling is that I give everyone the chance to understand and relate why they are the way they are.
11:04
[SPEAKER_02]: If someone is acting up and you do not know the backstory, it's very easy to touch them.
11:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just an asshole.
11:11
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just what abusive.
11:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I call whatever it is.
11:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But once you know what a character has been what they struggle with and you know how they might struggle with their own bad behavior, you know, being aware of it, but at the loss and not knowing how to really change it, it makes them much more relatable because they are, we can't just, we can relate to their messiness, we can find our own messiness
11:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And that makes a character very compelling.
11:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
11:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
11:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Which of your characters was the most difficult to write for you emotionally?
11:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Emotionally, probably Malir, because he...
11:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just emotionally so heavy, or pretty much like 80% of the entire story.
12:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he really felt the weight of his emotional trauma, and I felt it too, yeah, and
12:18
[SPEAKER_02]: that, yeah, that made it difficult.
12:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Not difficult to write, but did you have to experience that side to him?
12:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I was like, okay, dude, like, we're going to fix you right up, you know?
12:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I promise at the end things are going to be better.
12:38
[SPEAKER_02]: but he didn't believe that.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, this is so bad, you know?
12:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
12:43
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, a real negative man.
12:46
[SPEAKER_02]: He just made it.
12:47
[SPEAKER_02]: He just made everything.
12:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It made it feel so happy for me to write that.
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely him.
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you balance kind of going along with that?
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you balance their romance with the darker, more disturbing things without losing the emotional connection, like, especially with the characters.
13:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't think there are separate things.
13:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I really don't think that there are separate things.
13:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they can absolutely belong together because if you look at Romans or love and you say that this is only just nice and sweet and fluffy and positive and healthy thing.
13:20
[SPEAKER_02]: that's not realistic.
13:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
13:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do not separate those things and you will, you know, it's a lot of times the romance does progress through something dark, you know, that is usually it.
13:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I think they have, I think they have the right to, you know, be long together because
13:47
[SPEAKER_02]: still carry certain shadows inside them, but that should not exclude them from them.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: If you could be transported into any one of your worlds, which one would you think?
13:59
[UNKNOWN]: Nothing, nothing, nothing.
14:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing.
14:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Not one of them.
14:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Not one.
14:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, okay, like, I mean, okay.
14:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Court of Ravens is at war, you know, you went starve and like that's not I want to be there like I like eating food okay, like that's not what I want to be then a pale court There it's it's full with zombies like I don't want to be there either, okay, it's kind of gross You're right so the pale court for the most part especially in the beginning is
14:35
[SPEAKER_02]: boring.
14:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be there.
14:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we have the whole string do it and everything stinks because everything's rotting.
14:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, I don't want to use things or what are my worlds.
14:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely not.
14:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I could do that.
14:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there's, there's a, there's a project that I'm barking on.
14:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
14:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Very, very big project.
14:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, that, I know it just sounds insane.
14:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's going to believe me, but that world is actually real cute.
15:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just have, I actually need it that way.
15:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's, it's, it's very, nobody's, okay, well, there, they might be a little bit of like a war going on and some people die, but like, there's food.
15:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very colorful.
15:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not as bad.
15:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not, no, actually, it is, it is very vibrant and okay, okay, there are no zombies.
15:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's starving.
15:25
[SPEAKER_02]: A couple of people died, but it's like, that's okay.
15:29
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't turn into zombies.
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, right.
15:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, that world is actually, that world is beautiful.
15:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It smells good.
15:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It smells good.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very fragrant.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I never had that before.
15:41
[SPEAKER_02]: World time actually smells good.
15:43
[SPEAKER_00]: so I can't wait to read it.
15:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would go there for sure.
15:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but I can't wait to read that.
15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so have it reader reactions ever influenced the direction that you've wanted to take with a character a story.
15:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you read this stuff online that people say?
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: and like the things that they put out there.
16:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, well, the thing is that like during the writing process, no, but you can't give me any feedback because nobody knows what's actually happening, right?
16:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, general, I think if I would give people inside into like stories as I write them, they're like, oh, you can't do that.
16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I probably like, I would be like, well, I'm doing it.
16:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how do you think that?
16:23
[SPEAKER_02]: time.
16:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Just because you told me I can't.
16:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So once a story is finished, I'm emotionally done with it.
16:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
16:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that like a lot of authors have to book babies and they will always treasure them.
16:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I'm done with you.
16:39
[SPEAKER_02]: It's time for you to smile.
16:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you gotta stand on your own to let you know.
16:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, I'm like done with it.
16:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I don't really care all too much about
16:51
[SPEAKER_02]: What people did like really, yeah, I mean, it's always fantastic if I was able to reach people and something meaningful and something to relate to something to maybe heal with, you know, that's great.
17:06
[SPEAKER_02]: That's amazing.
17:07
[SPEAKER_02]: but at the same time, not every book is for every reader, not every author is for every reader, you know, that's it.
17:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Now occasionally, like I try to stay away from goodreads because brutal over there, so I don't go there unless.
17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not as I had like half a bottle of wine and I'm absolutely nothing else to do that, evening.
17:30
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, then I might actually go to your good dream.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But then I'm just laughing because the one star reviews they are.
17:39
[SPEAKER_02]: They are so funny.
17:40
[SPEAKER_02]: They are.
17:40
[SPEAKER_02]: We just go funny.
17:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Up at one.
17:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, I love, I love, I love, and then I print them and I share them and I put them off my marketing and everything because I'm like, that's hilarious.
17:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You know my gosh, I love that though, I do.
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Because one of my favorite things to do is look up one star reviews of books that I genuinely love.
18:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That is how I, that is how I, you know, would usually, you know, choose a lot of things.
18:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not necessarily sad.
18:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Why they tell me why I should get something, but why people say I should not get something.
18:12
[SPEAKER_02]: like I'm like that's very encouraging.
18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm even more intrigued now.
18:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, but I'm also a little rebel.
18:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you know, if you tell me not to do something, I'm so going to do it.
18:22
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just that same fight.
18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Literally.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so on that, no kind of, is there a world that you may revisit some day, or are they all just like, they're all done?
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, I mean, so the hard string to add is done.
18:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Court of Ravens is done.
18:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of people asked me for like a third book, but yeah, nobody bought those to tell me what I should, what I was supposed to put in there, and I'm like, I don't know, you know.
18:53
[SPEAKER_02]: A pale court definitely has room for the other two brothers and I did try to get back to that to write Yaren's story because he's just so funny.
19:04
[SPEAKER_02]: The other brother is very interesting too.
19:07
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was there and there's something plot wise that forces me to write Yaren's story before I write the third brother's story.
19:16
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem is that no matter how many ideas I had about that Yaren's story like, oh, I could do it like this, I couldn't like that.
19:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It never felt like, I never found the right story.
19:28
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't mean that I will never, ever find it in the future, you know?
19:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, I'm also not really looking for it right now, right?
19:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Because a lot of times I can't go looking for something.
19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, once a story is ready,
19:40
[SPEAKER_02]: it'll let me know.
19:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it'll come out.
19:43
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that one is just not it's just not it's it's still for Manting.
19:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So kind of talking about the heartstream do it.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: If that is where most people found you, I feel like that series has blown up recently.
19:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we have like it's crazy.
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, what other like where else should you start like with your your backlog of other stories?
20:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I honestly think that the hard string do it is a very good place to start for people who are not familiar with what I mean because it's a good entry it's a relatively safe entry point Yeah, it's not as dark.
20:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty consensual, you know There's a little bit of boundary pushing but other than that It's pretty safe and from there
20:29
[SPEAKER_02]: it just gets worse, you know.
20:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's that's such a fantastic entry point.
20:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope that I will be able to create more safer entry points in the future.
20:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure it'll come, you know, because I do not want to, I just want to write whatever I want to write.
20:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't necessarily want to stick to a certain formula or be like, oh, everything I write is like super dark.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
20:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Some stories don't want to be told like that.
20:53
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they just don't have it in them.
20:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was actually surprised at the hard string to add.
20:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, huh, it's interesting.
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody got me.
21:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
21:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, I.
21:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if like the pill court and the court of Ravens they're pretty, they're quite different.
21:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the darkness is different.
21:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I wouldn't even be able to tell, what the next best series is.
21:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So people have to figure out what that is.
21:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would definitely agree that the crummy dead and crummy yours is the safest.
21:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the lightest, cutest thing that it is.
21:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's written, you know, honestly.
21:40
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's so funny when I come across reviews, they're like, oh, this is a incredibly dark.
21:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
21:47
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not.
21:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to read the code of Raven series and then come back and talk to me, please.
21:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
21:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, well, there are so many people who are like, I'm like, like, quarter-famous was my intro into dark romance.
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I'm so sorry.
22:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so speaking of Alara, did you always know where her story would end or did her character surprise you the more you wrote?
22:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I didn't know because the hard string to add was a little bit.
22:22
[SPEAKER_02]: The hard string to add did not really follow how I usually write my stories, okay?
22:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I just had to story and I wanted to get it out.
22:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wrote the series very quickly in like five months.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I think three months book two took like two months, you know.
22:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And book one, I didn't.
22:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I wrote book one.
22:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Having absolutely no fucking idea, what book to would actually, what would be in there, ah, no clue, yeah, but as I was writing book to at some point I was like
22:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm like, am I doing that again?
23:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't possibly do that.
23:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Ah, damn, I think I'm doing it again.
23:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I wasn't planning that, but at the same time, I don't want to make things smooth, you know, just make them digestible, you know?
23:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, this is how it needs to be written.
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, that's what I did, that's what I did.
23:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you find, did you come across any challenges like writing death as like the main romantic lead within the series and kind of how that character evolved?
23:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I have written weird of things as the main male character like, because most people know that I also have, I have several pen names, one of them has written alien romance, you know?
23:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We came in all sorts of like, we were, you know, babes and sizes.
23:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Features.
23:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So writing like a house skeleton dude was like, you know, it was like not then.
23:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like nothing.
23:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like nothing.
23:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Like to me at least.
24:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty.
24:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if some readers were like, hey, um, because, you know, we had like pretty.
24:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Human, normal men, you know, and court raided and in the pale court.
24:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
24:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And Oviya and I, I don't know if everyone is.
24:17
[SPEAKER_02]: gonna dig this bone daddy, but I think, hey, I loved him, you know?
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everybody loved the bone daddy.
24:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so, I think so too.
24:28
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not weird to me at all.
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I was telling her I was like the ending of it is like the most heart-breakingly beautiful ending and like you didn't expect that reading the first book, you were like
24:42
[SPEAKER_02]: doesn't that have something to do and some reviews point out it's like it's like I'm reading two completely different books and that's true because I had never planned book two I didn't think that.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah what's just like you know I had this idea and it involved like a lot of mystery and lies and like red herrings and all that stuff and honestly I finished book one I was so proud of myself I'm like oh my god
25:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I finished book one and I liked it and I'm like, now I'm going to, I'm not going to write book two.
25:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have no idea what that is actually going to be.
25:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I actually had to take stock of the situation to be like, okay.
25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: what are we actually what do we what are we working with here yeah and so it took on a completely different feel but again i just tried to things the way they want to come out and I guess how it wanted to be but it was a really nice experience to focus more on you know unlike the the mysteries of it and the lies and everything yeah i haven't really done that before yet
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so where did the idea for the rot in the maggots and that being such a prominent part of the first story like come from?
26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: That cannot possibly surprise anyone, you know, I always have the tendency to make things filthy and stinky and rotting like that's not, doesn't that's not new, you know?
26:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm not sure if we had quite so many maggots.
26:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.
26:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I'm not planning that.
26:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I just sit down and write and suddenly there's a magnet and then there's five more.
26:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, did you just show up?
26:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, is your Google search like absolutely crazy when it comes to some of the science behind it?
26:33
[SPEAKER_01]: probably.
26:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably.
26:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, now it's probably pretty weird.
26:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, especially when it comes to research on how or something to come to.
26:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's pretty weird.
26:48
[SPEAKER_02]: The good thing is that, you know, I write fantasies.
26:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I can take my liberties here and there with a gap of things.
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But no, I'm pretty sure that most authors have a very strange, you know, Google search is very good thing.
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like one of our favorite questions.
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what's
27:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I honestly don't know, because at the same time nothing ever seems to appear weird to me, right?
27:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So normal, you know, yeah.
27:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, it's just so normal.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, do you find like the reactions to the maggots so funny because that seems to be like one of the most talked about things is the maggots and the maggots hitting the back of the throat and all of that like if you look on the I was looking at like the reviews and like it was maggots maggots maggots maggots maggots maggots
27:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, I know it's all that maggots could become a hashtag or it's like it did.
27:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't expect it and I know that a lot of people dipped out, you know, because they're like, yeah, I just can't, you know.
27:54
[SPEAKER_00]: and like now push past, push past it.
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Eventually, I was like, should I reduce the maggots?
27:59
[SPEAKER_02]: But then I lost two days, I was like, now, it's fine, it's like, it's whatever, you know?
28:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm training my readership, you know?
28:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, though, date, date, date, if you can get past the maggots, you're probably just not lying to you, you know?
28:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, I mean, all maggots and other stories, like in the future, okay?
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the line led me bed me slipmatter which is like one of our favorite lines.
28:25
[SPEAKER_01]: We love that.
28:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay Did you come up with that before writing the book or did it come to you after?
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: After?
28:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I really didn't know how to book it would actually it was actually when I finished writing book one I was having a little bit of a crisis because I because
28:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It was, the plot was like so layered with so many lies, so many mysteries that I got confused.
28:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, especially because I had to read everything over and over again.
28:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So it can get, it can look very convoluted in my brain.
29:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, there's makes no sense.
29:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's no sense.
29:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I gave the book to my editor.
29:07
[SPEAKER_02]: and she was like, just makes no sense.
29:09
[UNKNOWN]: And then I find it.
29:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, God, I wrote a bad book.
29:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It finally happened.
29:14
[SPEAKER_02]: This is just awful.
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But now, like, uh, let me bet me, just let my throat.
29:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually think that I came up with that.
29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I, as I was like trying to write the blur for the book.
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
29:28
[SPEAKER_02]: hate writing verbs, okay?
29:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's been as long to write the damn verb than it does to write the whole series.
29:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an agonizing.
29:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an agonizing.
29:38
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of wine and whiskey involved.
29:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Love cursing and crying and like it's so bad.
29:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's such a fantastic tagline.
29:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And I actually,
29:49
[SPEAKER_02]: think that I then went back to the book to kind of like incorporate that, and you know, I was already there.
29:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It just wasn't with much clarity.
29:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
29:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I do love that tag line.
30:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's like it's very, very tagline.
30:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so fantastic.
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds really good.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
30:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't read it before.
30:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I had read the book.
30:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So we read the book and then I looked on the back of it.
30:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Mackenzie says when me slip my throat.
30:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's literally the book and then the next one When her went him bed him slit his throat and I was like Thanks, right.
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I just yeah, no, I loved I don't know.
30:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I did I did really well with Yes, you know Like you can't you can sometimes I surprised myself sometimes.
30:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh no, I didn't write that That's the takula like oh
30:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so good.
30:44
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a time like just happened many years ago when I received my manuscript back from my editor and that manuscript was pretty big book so it took her a very long time.
30:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had been removed from my own manuscript for like six to eight weeks.
30:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So by the time I got it back,
31:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I was convinced that she changed one of my sentences because I was like, that is such a good sentence, that's not mine.
31:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, why would you, I'm like, it sounds great, but like, why would you, how would you change my shit?
31:11
[SPEAKER_02]: No, she's like, no, I actually didn't that, like, you wrote that.
31:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I did.
31:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I did.
31:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I did.
31:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That wasn't me.
31:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, would you, are there any other genres that you would enjoy writing in the future?
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything that's not contemporary on this, okay?
31:32
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm pretty versatile.
31:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I can write a rom-com, you know, I can write, you know, just fantasy, you know, or just a romantic sub-lot, you know?
31:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I just an idea, but I think I might be able to write a horror as well, okay?
31:51
[SPEAKER_02]: But do I want to do that?
31:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, probably not.
31:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I really do enjoy writing, you know, dark romantic scene.
31:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I love giving it a very grim dark, very gothic vibe.
32:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, love it.
32:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely love it.
32:05
[SPEAKER_02]: We love it too.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's so good.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
32:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So kind of just to wrap everything up, like, you mentioned the project earlier.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything like the year allowed to say about anything that you're working on?
32:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's all my stuff, so I can't say whatever I have one.
32:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But I won't, I try to be really careful about what I share with readers because I don't want to build expectations or anticipation.
32:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because I'm a wild card when it comes to that.
32:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I could be like, oh, this book is almost finished.
32:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And people get excited.
32:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, never mind, I'm like, I lost, I don't want to finish it, you know, like, I might come back to it at 15 years or I don't know.
32:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm always very careful.
32:50
[SPEAKER_02]: projects right now.
32:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so two projects are both actually all three projects are trilogies.
32:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
32:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
33:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, one of them, are you in my reading group?
33:04
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
33:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man, you've been missing out.
33:06
[SPEAKER_02]: What's your reading group?
33:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It's called Liz Den, Den of Darkness.
33:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And, um, I have actually been working on a
33:16
[SPEAKER_02]: on a dark romantasy omega wars.
33:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
33:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
33:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I shared many, many, many chapters.
33:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I shared a good 35% off the book with my meeting group as I was like writing it.
33:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You know?
33:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I was just in the mood, you know?
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I started that when I finished a hot string do it and I was like you know doing all the preparation for like lounging it So I had time.
33:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like I'd be just right this my reading group calls it the horny elves which is valid It's very It's very It's very it's dark.
33:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very dark.
33:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very gritty.
33:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It has a little bit of like a
34:02
[SPEAKER_02]: this topian lift in feel.
34:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's one, it's one of those worlds that is nothing's rotting, so that's great.
34:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like it's just very dark.
34:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also that these dark elves live underground and once we go underground, it just feels very dark and plus reformating very height, you know.
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that that one's fun myself to the group.
34:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're not, I deleted them.
34:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm no longer accessible.
34:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, you know, I'm still going to go add myself to the group for a future.
34:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.
34:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You posted, you asked me, she's put it such a great fun place.
34:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I intact a lot a lot from too much with my readers over there.
34:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's like, sometimes I'm surprised that they're not been annoyed by me already.
34:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, you have a gun to shut up, you know?
34:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is something, you know, that I've been working on.
34:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's like an alcoholic trilogy.
34:52
[SPEAKER_02]: That is that the very colorful, very vibrant world.
34:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Very, very different feel.
34:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's, uh, there's another story that I have been working on in my brain.
35:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, full longest, full longest, tweaking time, um, but it's such a complex world because it has, um, it has so much lore, and back story and the world is just so detailed that is sometimes really difficult for me to convey all that in a way where I'm like satisfied, you know.
35:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is something that at some point in the future I'm pretty sure we're going to get that whole story,
35:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, that one is also.
35:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
35:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything I'm lining up is like very dark.
35:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That's okay, that's what you like to write and that's what you like to write.
35:44
[SPEAKER_00]: There is an audience for that, I promise.
35:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I noticed, yeah.
35:49
[SPEAKER_00]: We all have issues and we like to read about issues.
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we all have issues.
35:55
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great to read about other people having issues.
35:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
35:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And not our own.
35:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It shows you that your issues are actually not that bad.
36:01
[SPEAKER_02]: That is right.
36:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you think you have trouble with your boyfriend?
36:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, is your boyfriend my dear?
36:08
[SPEAKER_02]: No, well, then girl.
36:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're fine, is your boyfriend death now, then you're good.
36:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You're good.
36:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.
36:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
36:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
36:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me.
36:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
36:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And we are so excited for all of the things you're working on and we're absolutely going to run to add ourselves to that group.
36:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you absolutely have to come.
36:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a fun place, honestly.
36:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It's fantastic.
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we will see you guys in the next podcast.
36:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye!