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Ben Weaver: The Courage to Follow Your Own Path · The Daily Writer

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Rider.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer: creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: For more, you can visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Being a writer takes courage.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe it takes a lot of courage.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why is that?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's because when you write, you put your words out there for people to judge and evaluate.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: You are releasing your ideas out into the world.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes those ideas will not be received too kindly by other people.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you've probably had that experience before where you've said something on social media or you've put some writing out there or you did something that people didn't respond to very well.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you were criticized.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe somebody didn't like that.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes what's even worse than that is that your words may not be received at all.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we get ignored as writers.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the name of the game.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to have courage to do this thing that we call being a writer.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Being a writer is basically an exercise in courage.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm excited to feature this conversation on today's episode that's going to help inspire your courage.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: My guest is Ben Weaver, who is the founder and CEO of Bigger Story Consulting.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Ben helps businesses get clear on their brand message so they get the revenue results that grow their businesses.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Ben is also a certified coach with Business Made Simple and Story Brand, both companies created by Donald Miller and both companies that I absolutely love and have benefited from in massive ways.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you've heard my story before, you know that my background is church ministry.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that also happens to be Ben's background as well.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So in this conversation, he shares his journey of moving out of that sphere into the business sphere, which involved a lot of soul searching.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, it involved a huge amount of courage as well.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one cool thing is that Ben lives here in the St.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Louis area where I live, and it was really fun to finally have a chance to chat since we have a lot of friends in common.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's one of those things where you don't live too far away from somebody.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're kind of in the same circles, but you have ever, you've never actually gotten to connect one-on-one with each other.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really, really fun.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so honored to be able to chat with him because he has he is so immensely respected by so many people that I know.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really, really fun to be able to feature him on this episode.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know that you're going to be inspired to live and work at a higher level after you hear Ben's story.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So be sure to stick around to the end of the conversation when he shares some details about his hero on a mission program that's launching soon.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get to the conversation with my friend Ben Weaver.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Ben, thanks so much for making time to be on the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned before we started recording, I've been wanting to touch base with you for probably a couple of years, and we have a lot of friends in common.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a huge honor to have you on the show.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, Ken.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: It is honestly my honor to be here.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for the opportunity.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So appreciate it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going through some stuff from Business Made Simple, which uh a lot of my listeners recognize that because I love it so much and talk about it sometimes.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, of course, from Donald Miller.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that you're a would you say a consultant or a coach?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: What's the right way to frame your relationship with Business Made Simple and Story Brand?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a really great question.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of changed over the last couple of years.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I started in uh doing stuff with Story Brand as a story brand certified guide.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I was guide okay in the yeah, I was in the marketing space, um, doing a lot of things, using storytelling, all of those things for a couple of years, but I've since made the transition to become a business made simple coach and consultant.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the world that I live in now.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I I know you're you're taking a deep dive into all that stuff, and so that's what's gonna make this conversation great, I'm sure, for lots of reasons.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I that I love about Donald Miller stuff, particularly the business made simple stuff.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I love story brand, but I love the nuts and bolts aspect of business made simple because I've I've been getting my my ghostwriting business going the last couple of years, and I realize there's a lot of things that I don't know and a lot of things that I need help with.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you don't know what you don't know when you start out on this business kind of a journey, but I love how simple it is.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just I'm I'm going through the stuff and just thinking, why hasn't anybody told me this before?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this really as simple as he's making it?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible everything is too complicated?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So has that been your experience interacting with with Story Brand and Business Made Simple as well?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're just drawn to the simplicity and the effectiveness of it.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is, you know, Ken, I'm a business owner too, you know, and that's something that I I forget sometimes is you know, I run a business, and so I need the simple frameworks and ideas that business made simple, the name, you know, offers.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because because I I wasn't trained uh as a business person, I didn't get an MBA or a bachelor's degree in business.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: My training and all of that I learned was through Bible college and seminary.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you know this, they don't know, they don't teach you how to run a business in those in those.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've taught at a Christian college for a long time, and my background is worship ministry.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm extremely familiar with the non-business orientation of the pastoral ministry.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I love about what Donald Miller and his team have done is they've taken this idea of what it means to run a business and simplified it in such a way to help people grow.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and his Donald Miller's dream is that he really wants to grow the middle class.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And a way to do that is to simplify things for people.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just as a business owner, it's been great as a consultant and coach helping others in that arena.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we've seen a lot of fruit from that, and it's been a lot of fun.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I do want to want to get to in a little bit is Hero on a Mission, which is kind of what we're here to talk about.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I would love to explore for a few minutes, if we can, your journey from being a pastor now to being a business owner and working with Business Made Simple, because that's those are two very different worlds, but I know there are also some some interesting parallels, the similarities.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that your experience in the church world, a lot of those skills that you developed there do transition over to what you're doing now with people.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious if you can walk us through a little bit your journey of how you made that transition and why, and and anything that you want to share with us about that.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for giving me the opportunity just to share a part of my story, Ken.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I so 15 years I worked as a as a youth pastor and inside the local church, in some way, shape, or form doing doing church ministry.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I was trained in that, as I just mentioned a few moments ago.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: That was all of my education.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I loved that world and still do love that world.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: But when I was hitting my late 20s, uh, I I had built this life of performance and achievements and accolades and all of these things that were were great.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what I began to find as I hit my late 20s and into 30 is that life um wasn't bringing me the great amount of joy that I that I thought it would.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really important for a reason.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so on my 29th birthday, the the kind of culmination of all this, I finished an Iron Man, which is an incredible athletic feat.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a lot of work, training for a couple of years, all these things.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I and I emptied myself out on that course.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the next day, I was sitting around this fire pit in upstate New York with my family who had been celebrated celebrating me and this whole massive achievement.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting around this fire pit, contemplating life like one often does after finishing something amazing.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember not feeling any different.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking, I should feel more accomplished, I should feel more um, I should just feel better about who I am and and who I'm becoming.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't, and I and I couldn't put a finger on as to why, but I realized that something was there.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I sort of took all of what I was feeling, I stuffed it down inside of me.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And for over a year, um, really up until my 30th birthday, I just didn't do anything with it.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And on my 30th birthday, ironically enough, I'm sitting on my couch in St.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Louis, Missouri with no plans, nothing to do, and realizing I didn't, the relationships that I needed in my life just didn't exist.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized something's wrong.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't like my life.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And mind you, remember, I'm a pastor in the local church.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: You think I should have all my stuff together, but I don't.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, man, something's got to change.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I did, and this is why this is important in the transition of my career, is instead of going, let me figure out more things I can do to make my life better, I realized there was a lot of internal work that I needed to do on myself.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got into counseling, I got into therapy, I started surrounding myself with people who uh friendships that I needed, um, people that I could be vulnerable with, um, people that I could open up to.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I took a lot of risks relationally to grow that and to make those things happen.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what happened over about four or five years, that's a long time for in retrospect, is not only did my relationships improve, my life improved, but I began to understand a confidence about who I truly am.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and faith is obviously a big part of my story, who I am in Christ.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that began to change everything.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so as I approached my later years in youth ministry and I'm getting healing and I'm getting health emotionally, and all these things, I realized that there was more to my life, more to my career than what was happening in the moment.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, gosh, what is that?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so honestly, Kent, your listeners, I think, will love and appreciate this.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have I love and a passion for writing.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: My wife and I have dreams of writing books together and all these things.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: We believe that's part of our story.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh I just but I uh it wasn't a part of my daily practice.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started writing 20 minutes a day, and I would just write about anything and everything, and I would set a timer.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And when the timer went off, I would stop because I didn't want to, I didn't ever want to hate it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then I took the summer, I believe it was 2016.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I took the summer to write a 100,000 words.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end, I thought, I'll have a lot of answers to my questions about what I should be doing, what I shouldn't be doing.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I had more questions at the end, like a lot of writers may come up with.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so dang it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I get Labor Day.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Labor Day was my deadline.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I hit over with uh and I was like, okay, uh still confused.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this isn't, and but what I began to do was categorize stuff and I started a blog, got into the writing world, and realized I love this.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love this idea of sharing my ideas and my passions with the world.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew there was something to that.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I I um get began to get into some writer writer communities and just around entrepreneurs, folks like yourself who love to write and you know, creators who love making online courses or or podcasts or all those things.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, gosh, this is my tribe.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: These are the people that I that I want to surround myself with who are doing great things in the world.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And long story short, over the course of a couple of years from 2016 to 2018, I realized like this is the path God was paving forward for me.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't inside the local church, but out.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt him call me out to that.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I in May of 2018, I left a 15-year career in the church world, jumped into executive coaching.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: I had my own podcast for a while.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: But um, when you start your own business, the rubber starts to meet the road.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: We just talked about, you know, how simple it should be, and yet we complicate everything.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I struggled for a while in that space.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I truly did, Ken.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was hard going for me.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't until I was introduced to the story brand community and guides and coaches that I realized, hey, there's I have a skill set in communication and words and teaching that I can use as a marketer to run a business.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I can have all these great people around me who can tell me kind of the show me the ropes, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I um God gave me the green light and I and I um got into the story brand guide community and was a marketer there, like I said, for a couple of years.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And my journey as a business owner has just kept evolving, it's kept shifting and changing into what we do now at Bigger Story.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I'm sure we'll get into some of that.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that's my journey.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what I tell folks, it it wasn't so much of a I'm chasing money, but more of I'm chasing the man who God met when he met me.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to become that man.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that meant me leaving the church, starting a business, and wrestling through all of these things as I went along.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a that's a medium-sized version of my story.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I'm gonna stick to it.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So now, have you shared that?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I should know the answer to this because uh I feel like I should I should know where the the content that you've put out there.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've read your book and really, really loved it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did you share part of this in your book about relationships?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't recall, it's been a couple years since I read it.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I shared some of it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I shared the piece around achievements and accolades and how that often drives young men in our culture.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not often, it drives uh, I would say 80% of of men in our culture around.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: It really does.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:35
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I would, man, I would love to read the the full version of of that and and really hear you reflect on what that transition was like and all the ups and downs, and coming out on the other side, stronger, clear vision for your life, uh, doing scarier things that you hadn't done in your 20s, you know, that that whole thing.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, should you ever share that whole version somewhere?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would I would be the first in line to buy that.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, thanks, Kit.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, I uh it will be in the form of of talks and books and all that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like I mentioned, my wife and I have dreams of of just resourcing the the world on on what does it look like in you know, to step into risk and and disrupt your life and be courageous enough to do that, to make the changes you need to make to become the man or woman that you want to be.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we're we're in the midst of that right now with a new marriage and a young family.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we're we're excited to see what might come out on the other side as we get five or 10 years into this journey.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the reality is that a lot of people right now are going through transitions.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you know, both of us are very familiar with the church ministry world.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of pastors right now who are thinking about transitions or who will be thinking about other career options.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: It it and it breaks my heart to say that a little bit, but at the same time, you know, coming from the the church world, many times, and I don't know if this is your experience when you transitioned away from vocational or career ministry, where there were some people kind of in your circle who who looked at that as, oh, Ben is leaving the ministry, he's getting out of a ministry and he's going to do something else.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they kind of say that with a tone of voice that is like a there, there's a slight disappointment or almost like a little bit of a shame factor.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: When, and this is a whole different topic of conversation, I know, but so many times we limit the idea of what does it even mean to be in a ministry as a person of faith, as a Christian.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, ministry doesn't just happen in a church, it can happen in a boardroom, in a business, at a coffee shop.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much broader than sometimes those of us in the the church ministry world kind of give that that credit for, I think.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I can I wrestle with that.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I in fact, I even wrote a I think I wrote a medium article about, you know, or I I wrote some some reflections on why I believe I'm not I'm not leaving my calling.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I I can tell you love that, I can tell you the day, the hour, even close to what I was wearing when I felt called to go do vocational ministry.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was a it was a moment in my history.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wrestled with, am I leaving that?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And God was like, no, not at all.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, one of the things uh we we've mentioned Donald Miller, and I've heard him talk, and this was eye-opening to me.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: It helped me frame it appropriately.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: He said, We have the opportunity to to to co-write with God different stories in our life.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Man, that's good.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: How beautiful is it?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: How beautiful is it that we don't just have one large story, but there's this story, and it has an end, and it and the credits roll, and then we start a new story.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I look at my life now from you know, I think I left the church from at age, I think it was 34 or 35.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, that was the end of a story.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: The the the credits rolled, I grieved it, it was over, and now I'm in a new story, right?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: I got married in that in this story.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I had our first child in this story, and and our business will grow in the story.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And somewhere along the way, that story will end, credits will roll, and we'll start a new one.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so God has given us this incredible agency and opportunity to write these stories with him if we'll just say yes.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's what that's where the opportunity is.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um, inside of our one big novel are chapters and parts that if we'll pay close enough attention, there are seasons where things start and where they end.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we have the amazing opportunity um to say yes and to and to write a bigger story for our life with God.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to miss that opportunity.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's beautiful.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a great transition into what I wanted to ask about next, which is your workshop cohort, Hero on Emission.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so fascinated by what this is all about.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I it's funny that that we're talking about this because I'm literally going through that course in Business Made Simple Hero on a Mission.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking through my one, five, and 10-year goals.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of a painful process because I'm not used to thinking that long of the distance, but it's very good.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and I appreciate what he's put together.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So share with us kind of what you're doing with Hero on a Mission and how that can benefit people and really anything that you want to share about that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, let's start here, Ken.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with the fact that most people, especially now in 2021, and especially after last year, find themselves in a moment in their life where they feel like they're lacking meaning and purpose.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Man, so true.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's whether it's, gosh, this career is not playing out like I thought, or or my life isn't playing out like I thought.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and what happens is one of two things occur.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: The first is they do nothing and they sit back and they let life happen to them.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the other is they they decide, no, I'm not going to choose to live this life.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to to um happen to life, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to do it the other way around.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at times what what happens is um I think there, we we often think we can control everything.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what and disappointment, yeah, disappointment.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've been there raising my hand right now, um, where we control everything.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a middle ground that we can live in.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the beauty behind that is there is an opportunity to take the agency we've been given to form our life in this, in the in the idea of a narrative and story.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: We just talked about that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and the the phraseology that I use is what would it look like to shape your life like a movie?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: What would it look like to understand how the structure of a movie works, and then take your life, put that framework over it, and go, how could I design my life?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the truth that I think is so beautiful in all of that is God is saying, Yes, this is my story.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let's take apart and do this together, which is really um it's uh it's holy, it's in, it's in um, it's beautiful, uh, and it's really scary because because that's that's a um the invitation from the creator of the universe to say, hey, let's do this together can be daunting.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what we do in the course, uh, what we do in the workshop in the cohort with others is we provide the framework they need to help shape their life, like a movie where we start with a climactic scene.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: We start with the end, right?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's the scene that happens just before the credits roll, which for you and I and everyone else on this planet is death, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we say, what does that, what do you want that scene to look like?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want your obituary to say?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a uh it's a scary feeling to to wrestle through that, but it can also be, excuse me, really powerful.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because then what we do is we take that climactic scene and we reverse engineer the entire process.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: You just mentioned uh working on your goals, your 10, you're five, and you're one year vision.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what do those things start to look like in all different areas of your life?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then how do we practically let uh help you to achieve those day in and day out?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so the whole punchline of the whole course and workshop and court we're doing is um many of you who have stepped into this, and many folks in our world today have allowed fate to decide their story.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And fate is a terrible writer.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you let fate write your story, it's going to look like somebody just threw a bunch of ingredients into a blender and made soup and it tastes exactly right.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what if we decided to pick up the pen and I would I would offer allow God into that and watch what happens.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something beautiful that can occur.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we do is we help folks develop that life plan from all of those things, from the Creating the vision, the obituary, the story summary, all of that from your life.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then practically, how do we help you set goals that matter now and achieve those via a daily planner and rolling all of that out?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you walk away after our cohort, and some of them run a couple of weeks, some of them run four weeks.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on the schedule and what we got going on.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we take folks through this content, and what happens is extreme life-altering changes occur on the other side.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Folks feel like they're on mission, they feel like they're a part of something, they feel like they've got some agency over their life.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it is an it is an incredible thing to watch happen, especially for folks who come in feeling like I don't really know what my life's all about.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a nutshell of what we're what we're doing inside the cohort and workshop.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there's so much more there that I could talk about for forever.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think people don't do this kind of process?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even when we know what to do, we have a clear pathway, we have people who are willing to help us, or there's opportunities available.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we just don't go through this process.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's does it come down to fear, mostly a fear of the unknown?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're in a bad situation, you're in a job that you hate, you're unhappy with whatever situation.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: We don't take action to change our life because even if we think something could be a lot better on the other side of that, it's the fear of the unknown.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that something that you deal with a lot whenever you are working with people?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there, I think it's a couple of things.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: There is fear, it is unknown.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: It is, I don't want to shake the apple cart, right?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because from the outside, their life looks great.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a good job.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they've got, you know, 3.2 kids, a dog, a white picket fence, all the things, but inwardly they're dying.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, but I gotta keep this lifestyle up.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to stay in this career, I got to stay in this job.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I think is actually more prominent than any of us would care to admit is we're too busy watching other people's stories.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's powerful.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's really powerful.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about it, Kent, what do we do most evenings?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Most of us, we scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, or we get on Netflix and what do we do?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: We watch somebody else's story.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now there's nothing wrong with it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Which are face, yeah, right.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing wrong with movies, TV.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying stop watching those things because they're they're God can use those in a beautiful way to help speak into our story.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Those are great.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: But when you numb, that's the word I thought of, when we numb ourselves with other people's stories, we both compare ourselves to theirs, and ours, like, huh, my life's not as good as theirs.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that just makes us feel more fearful or anxious or or full of shame or depressed, or it's I want to be like them.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so we start writing their own business.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And Ken, I've been guilty of this in my own business.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: What I fought for two years was building someone else's business.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I finally was like, I gotta stop doing this.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is ridiculous.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is driving my family crazy.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I've got to build, and so for me, it's it wasn't so much about the life, it was more about what business am I building.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so we look at other people's lives, we scroll through the feeds and go, I want that, I want that, I want that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like no, that's not actually what you want.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: What you want is a status.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be seen, you want to be heard.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the only way we can be truly seen and heard in our lives is if we write the story that was meant for us with God.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only way.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this is such an important conversation with writers.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And man, your observations about numbing our unhappiness by scrolling through everybody else's stories, that is really really powerful, really powerful, by the way.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: This is a great conversation for writers because uh I don't know what your experience has been, but when it comes to writers, creative types, artistic people, my experience a lot of times is that those people, and by those people I mean us and me, tend to sometimes not be that assertive.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: We we like to be the creative type that we just want to hang back and create.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we the idea of being an entrepreneur and having a business, it seems overwhelming to a lot of writers.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: But this is such a key concept that you mentioned about you can either write your own story or you can build somebody else's story.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you spend all your creative energy building someone else's thing, you're gonna be unhappy with that at the end of the day.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I I really I always really love to talk to writers about you need to think of yourself as a business owner, as a business person, because do you really want to spend your whole life building somebody else's organization or business?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or even if you do client work for a living, so I do a lot of client work with ghostwriting, I don't want all my energy to go into that because at the end of the day, I want to have some of my own stuff.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole nother topic of see this is why it's so great to have people like you on the show because we can spend hours talking about this stuff and you're spurring so many awesome ideas.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and yeah, Ken, well, it's I I love talking about this kind of stuff.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: You can see my face.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting, I'm just getting excited and passionate about it because uh I was guilty.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: The reason why I raised an Iron Man can't wasn't because I wanted to be, I mean, it was because I wanted to have that, you know, checkbox off on my life.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I did that, I achieved that.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what I in retrospect, what I realized was that I was actually chasing after things, a story to get people's attention.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: When I found myself at the end was not feeling fulfilled.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the language I would use is that was my false self, all of those things.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what I've been working on now for the last seven years now at 37, going to be 38 this summer, is what who is that true self?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, who is that?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And some of that will be left over, some of that drive and passion, that is in that is who I am.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: But what does it look like to be for that to be harnessed and to be used for greater things rather than what I was using it for?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: So there what we're talking about, Kid, is a lot of self-exploration, a lot of things that, gosh, uh, for some folks will take months and years, but uh it's important to enter into them for sure.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think in in uh you know, three years, whenever you turn 40, it's gonna be even more of the things that you're talking about.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I am 10 years older than you, I'll be 47 this year.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like an old man these days.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I had a friend whenever I was in my 20s, he was turning 40, and he said, you know, something happens whenever a man turns 40, and he couldn't really articulate what he was, but he said, Just you just wait and see.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: When you turn 40, you'll start to think very differently about life.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it was absolutely true, and not on the day necessarily, but right around that period, you're like, Man, now I'm 40, and you just start to think differently.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so refreshing that you you have already been going through this process for a long time of rethinking your life and being more intentional.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So many guys and so many ladies, they never do that, and they wake up one day and you know, they're they're in the later years of life, and there's been no intentionality and really no thought put into that.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really thankful for the work that you're doing.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is an awesome conversation.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, thanks.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I it's I made a lot of screwed ups, and so I'll my hope is I can go back on the trail and say, hey, don't miss that road marker.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's really important.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Make the turn, make the turn, make the turn.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So well, Ben, how can people get in touch with you and find out more about Hero on a Mission and just learn about all the cool stuff that you're doing?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you go to biggerstory.com/slash hero, pretty simple.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can find out more about the workshop and cohort that we've got put together.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, everything you need to know is there.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can register for one, get more information about what we're doing uh with the cohort.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's an amazing experience that I love taking people through of all ages, all backgrounds.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's in fact, I've actually ironically enough, I have one starting this afternoon.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to get one going.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, bigger biggerstory.com slash hero.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, awesome.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Ben, before I wrap this up here in just a second, I just want to take a second to acknowledge you and the impact you're making in the world.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I as I mentioned at the beginning, I've been wanting to connect with you for a long time, and for whatever reason, it just never happened.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So so glad that we've had this chance to do this.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really fun to hear about all the cool stuff that you're doing.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I again I love Donald Miller stuff, but I'm really glad that there are people like you who are taking it and you're really putting hands and feet on it at the level where people can can get with you one-on-one and or with a cohort and go through this material.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're making a huge difference in the world, and I really appreciate you taking time to do this.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Ken, I love what you're up to as well.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, feel free to let the folks listening.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Anything I can do to help serve you, just feel free to reach out.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to help.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, I absolutely loved that conversation.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as I mentioned before, it was so much fun to finally get to connect with Ben after both being here in the St.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Louis area for many years, in fact.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but again, it's one of those things where we just now had the opportunity to connect recently for this episode.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: After going through this conversation and getting to talk with Ben, my biggest takeaway is simply this.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: What scares you right now?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a book that you want to write or a business that you want to start or a podcast that you want to create?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: And does that scare you or intimidate you?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: If so, I think that's a sign that you need to go for it.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think that your fear is almost like a weather vein that's telling you what direction you need to go.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: So listen to that fear, lean into that fear, and really explore what it is that you should be doing.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, life is really short and we only get one crack at it.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I figure why hesitate?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why stay stuck doing something you don't really want to do?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why not go for the gold, as they say?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Why not go for it, take a risk, take a chance, do the thing that really scares the heck out of you because I think that is probably a sign that you should be moving that direction.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to thank my special guest, Ben Weaver.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can check out his consulting, his social media links, and all the other cool stuff that he's doing at biggerstory.co.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks again for listening to this episode.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: And before I go, I want to take a moment to remind you that our daily writer membership community is open.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, we've been open for a few months, and man, we've got some writers in the group who are getting some phenomenal results as a result of just taking a bigger risk with their writing.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this episode was all about courage, and we've got some people in this group who are doing some courageous things.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: We've got one member who's launching their novel next month.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to interview her.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Her name is Ashley Rescott.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: She'll be on the episode here in a number of weeks talking about her new novel.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: We've got another member, Ken, who's working on his book.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: We've got other people who are launching businesses, getting clients, and conquering goals that they only once dreamed of.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because being a part of a great community really helps you to embrace that courage and do things that maybe felt out of reach, but because you're surrounded by these achievers and by people who want to run toward their goals and conquer their fear, now you feel empowered to do that.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So check it out.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really, really fun community.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is a massive honor for me to be able to uh to serve this group.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can find out more info by going to daily writer life.com slash community.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, and I'll see you tomorrow.