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Ephesians 5:22-33 with Dave & Lisa Lee - Husbands and Wives · Pursuing the Heart

• 0:52
  SPEAKER_07: Hello, this is uh Pursuing the Heart.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, this is Scott Blewitt, and uh thank you for uh uh tuning in to listen.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_07: And uh Pursuing the Heart is just a uh podcast to bring people together to show that we can um come together and have a casual conversation about the scripture and about different things that are in the scripture and when they come up.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_07: We've been going through a series of Paul letters, and uh we are currently in Ephesians, and tonight um we're in that section where it talks about wives and husbands, and I asked a terrific couple to come on this evening, uh Lisa and David Lee.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_07: How are you guys going?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_07: How's it going, guys?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_07: Great, Scott.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much for inviting us.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_06: It's great to be here.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_08: All right, tell us a little about yourselves, David and Lisa.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_08: Well, right at the moment, I'm just overwhelmed by sitting in Scott's luxurious mansion.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, you know, I've I've only seen the first uh, I think 20,000 square feet.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_08: Maybe afterwards you can show me the other 20, Scott.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, if that's 20,000, counting my next door neighbors' houses as well.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_08: We're doing great.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_08: Scott, just a little bit about Lisa and I.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_08: Uh in June, we celebrate our 35th wedding anniversary.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and we have two children, Christopher, who's 31, and Evan, who's 28.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_08: They they both live outside of Indiana, so we miss them greatly.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_08: Uh, they're both married.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_08: Christopher about two and a half years ago, and Evan uh in May.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_08: So uh newlyweds.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_07: Newlyweds.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_07: All right.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_07: So Lisa, tell me about yourself.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_07: Dave's been talking.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_07: You haven't been talking.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_07: You just enjoying life as you doing anything fun lately, playing any pickleball or anything like that?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_06: Well, we've been walking a lot.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_07: Um walking, okay.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_06: In this warm weather, and uh, that's something we really enjoy doing together.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_06: We walk and talk.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_07: Was there any fun trips you guys have been on lately?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_07: Uh let's see.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_06: We went to the Rocky Mountains.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, whereabouts in the Rocky Mountains did you go?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, we went to Rocky Mountain National Park, Estes Park.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_07: That's in Colorado, right?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_07: Yes.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_06: The main reason that we went was we were gonna go see Mercy Me at Red Rocks.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_07: Oh.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_06: And it was at the it was last night of our trip, and it was absolutely a highlight.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_07: So did you all right?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_07: So I have not been to Red Rocks to listen to a concert.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_07: So you gotta tell me, Lisa, did you like the concert at Red Rocks?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_07: Is it amazing, like everybody says?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_06: It's spectacular.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_06: I say it's first of all, the the musicians that were there were Mercy Me, John Reddick, Leanna Crawford, um Brian Johnson, somebody like that.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, okay, all right.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_06: So fantastic.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_06: And of course, Mercy Me was the final band.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_06: But you get in there and it is just so gorgeous, and you are looking over downtown uh Denver.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, and as the sun goes down, the sky gets beautiful, and the lights of the city come up, okay, and the sound just reverberates off of the beautiful red rocks all around you, and 10,000 people are worshiping together.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_07: It it was it was a imagine it was an amazing experience.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_07: So um, Dave, did you I think you probably liked it a lot, didn't you?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I was leading the dance group, Scott.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_08: Uh that probably doesn't surprise you.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_08: Dancing for Jesus.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_08: The acoustics were were really incredible.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_08: And uh yeah, we had a great time.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_08: It was the K-Love concert.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_08: And so um they they had it organized in a really clever way where uh they alternated a band being on the stage, and then the next band was actually out in the crowd a little bit.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_08: They had what looked like kind of a temporary stage in the crowd so they didn't lose time with switching from one band to the other where they had to do the setup.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_08: Okay, and uh so it it kept all five acts moving along uh really quickly, and that's what the audience loved as well.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_07: Sweet.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_07: And uh just want to let everybody know that Dave and I will be on team together in a couple of weeks so you guys can pray for us.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_07: We're going, we are participating in Kairos, and we're going into the Newcastle prison uh Thursday evening, and we'll be there all day Friday.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_07: We'll be all day Saturday and half a day or more on Sunday.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_07: Is that about right, Dave?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, that's right, Scott.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_07: And uh this will be our third time together in a row, right?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_07: And uh big thing coming for Dave.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_07: You will be leading a weekend coming soon, aren't you?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_08: About a year from now, Scott, I'll be leading the weekend.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_08: That's awesome.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_08: Looking forward to it already.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_07: Well, so I served on Dave's team.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_07: Was the first time I'd ever served at the Great Banquet, was on David Lee's team, and it was an amazing experience.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_07: And I would imagine the same experience will happen for that uh Kairos weekend as well.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_08: So can I recruit you right now, Scott, on air as my first recruit for my weekend that I'm leading?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_08: Sure.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_07: I was thinking about taking uh one off, but I'm not so that would be the spring.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_07: So yeah, coming back in the fall would be great if you asked.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_07: And I'm and I'm kidding you, Scott.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_07: I it's fine.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_07: You can put me through that commitment.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_07: You can put no, I'm fine with it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_07: Um, I'm good.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_07: I was gonna I was hoping you were gonna ask me one day to be on that team.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_07: Um, tonight we're gonna look at Ephesians.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_07: Uh before we get there, I'm gonna ask uh Dave if you would don't mind saying a prayer.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_08: I'd be honored to.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_08: All right.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_08: Dear Father in heaven, thank you for this gathering with Lisa and Scott and I this evening.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_08: And we ask that our words may just glorify you as we dive into your word and try to learn who you are even more clearly.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_08: We ask that all of the people who hear this podcast may just be touched by what we say, that our words may glorify you, and that it touches their hearts and their mind in just the way that you wish, Father.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_08: In Jesus' name we pray.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_08: Amen.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_07: So we've been going through the book of Ephesians um in this series, and uh we've been going slowly through this, and we have come to the section for husbands and wives.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_07: Before then, it was um at the end of chapter four, it talked about uh everybody has a role in the body of Christ.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_07: Um, the foot, the hand, the head.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_07: No part of the body is greater than the other.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_07: And then in the first part of five, uh Ryan was on the last time, and it was totally just about love, about loving each other, about loving, uh, don't love the darkness, love the light, being children of the light, not being children of the darkness.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and then it gave some insight there, Paul did at the end there, of some just helpful, like, don't be foolish, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_07: And understand what the will of the Lord is, and then he transitions into this next section.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_07: And um, Lisa has asked me to let her read the whole section, and then we're gonna go back and look at it verse by verse, like we normally do.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_07: So, guess what?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_07: People, I obliged whenever I've been asked, and um, so I I obliged uh to her.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_07: So she's gonna read the whole section, and she's reading out of the NIV.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_07: So that would be verses uh 22 through 33.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_08: And Scott, I I think the word is submit, not oblige.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, yes, we will be getting into submit and submission.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, yes, and it's out of love, isn't that right, Dave?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_07: That's right, Scott.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_07: Then um, that's 35 years of love, right, Dave?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_07: If I heard that right, right.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_07: You heard it correctly.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, all right.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_07: So, Lisa, if you want to go ahead, you can do that.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_06: Well, and I will point out the verse right before we're starting is Ephesians 5.21 that says, Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_07: So she she might not listen to the podcast.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, I did, but I typically love to go back to the verse before because you just don't jump into the chapter.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_07: So I love that verse.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_07: Well, so Lisa, submit to one another out of reference for Christ.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_07: How does that set up the rest of the chapter in a way that you can see that both could be submitting to each other moving forward?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_07: Or if you're submitting to Christ, then then you're submitting to others.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_06: And I think the ultimate model for this is the way that um Christ loved the church and that marriage follows into that as well.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_06: So um I'm gonna go ahead and jump into the what to the scripture.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, go right ahead.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you for that.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_06: Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_06: For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_06: Now, as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_06: Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_06: In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_06: He who loves his wife loves himself.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_06: After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it just as Christ does the church, for we are members of his body.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_06: For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_06: This is a profound mystery, but I am talking about Christ and his church.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_06: However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you, Lisa.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_07: So let's go back to 22.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_07: Um, it says, Wives submit to your own husbands as to the Lord.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_07: Um when you hear that, what does that mean to you guys in a marriage aspect?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_08: So I look at it, Scott, as Jesus is our model.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_08: And and Jesus had the ultimate submission by dying for our sins.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_08: And there's there's there's no greater submission than that.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_08: And so I think that we're also called to love each other.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_08: And if you look at the first Corinthians 13 discussion about love, um we see that being selfless is part of that definition.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_08: So um I I do believe that even though it says wives submit to your husbands, it's really talking about a two-way of submit to each other.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_07: And are you in accordance to that, Lisa?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yes.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_06: I'm submitting to Dave what he said just said there.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_07: Hey no, come on.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_07: So so it's so it's like a give would submission look like a give and take thing?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_06: And I I think what I would love to just jump in with here is um let's go back to Genesis when God created man and woman.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, and uh Scott would say he created Eve because uh Adam needed a helper.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, the helper, that's the key word.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_06: And um I did a little looking into this, and um in English, helper is often a subordinate.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_06: Oh but back in the day when this was written and lived out, um it was in Greek.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_07: And we're talking about in the context of Ephesians.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, okay, not Genesis.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, all right.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_06: Well, back in Genesis, and I I I stand corrected, it's not Greek, it's Hebrew.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_06: It was Hebrew at that time.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_06: And Azair is the word for helper.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, and it was used in verse um chapter two, verse eighteen, and then also in twenty, and it was talking about um it said the Lord in 18, it says, The Lord God said, It is not good for the man to be alone, I will make a helper suitable for him.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_06: And in verse 20 it says, So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky, and all the wild animals, but for Adam, no suitable helper was found.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_06: So God, you know, created Eve.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_06: Um that word Azer is also used 21 times in the Old Testament.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_06: And um it's it doesn't imply inferiority or weakness, it means a strong rescuer or equal ally rather than a servant.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that's important.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and then the other thing is is out of those 21 times that it was referenced in the Old Testament, most of those were referring to God.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_06: So as I think about you were talking about how it goes back and forth um in the relationship that men and women were both created in the image of God.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and they both received the mandate to be fruitful and subdue the earth together for the glory of God.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_06: The text does not say women be fruitful and man subdue the earth.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_06: God considers her the perfect complement to the man.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_06: She's essential for them to carry out this mandate together.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_06: So that's kind of the framework I'm thinking of as we talk about submission.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and I and the reason why I have a couple on tonight, and especially someone who's been married for a long time, they've had goods and bad times.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_07: Not everything has been good, but also too the submission part or submit has been so negative in the outside world, looking into Christianity or into church today, or even in the past.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_07: Like, you know, that was a verse that I think growing up that some pastors held over when you have to submit to your husbands and husbands, make sure your wives are that's why I wanted it to be to have a couple come on, because I don't feel like that that's the case.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_07: I don't feel like I feel like it's a give and take.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_07: My wife and I, um, we have a give and take.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_07: And I submit to her and she submits to me, and we have a loving marriage.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_07: Um, now does that every day look like that?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_07: No, because sometimes I have my flesh and sometimes I want to do what I want to do, right?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_07: So, same thing probably with Lisa, same thing with Dave, you know.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_07: But the majority of the time, if we're submitting to each other, that's the the beauty of what God has established here in a marriage.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_07: Would you agree on that?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_08: I would agree, Scott, and excuse me, you mentioned a moment ago about every marriage has rough times, right?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_08: There's there's times when you don't agree.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_08: Well, if if you're in submission to each other, then it makes a whole lot easier to resolve those disagreements that sometimes come up.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_07: Um, yeah, so yeah, it it does make it better.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_07: I do agree with you, Dave.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_07: Um so let's look at verse 23.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_07: It says for husbands is the head for the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church, his body and himself is uh its savior.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_07: Dave, when you hear that, how is what does that look like in in a husband hearing that verse?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_07: Because Christ is like the head, right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_07: So what does that how does that look like for you?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_08: It's a tough standard to hit, right, Scott?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, you can't hit it, right?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_08: That's right, that's right.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_08: And you know that right from the start.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_08: So that's that's good to know.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_08: Right.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_08: But what it looks like to me, Scott, is modeling the behavior that called God called us to.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_08: And and so that includes things like uh studying and applying scripture, teaching scripture to our family members, um, being in community and fellowship and allowing our our children to be part of that community and to see how we interact in that community means worship, prayer, uh, and of course, bearing fruit.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_08: So, so all of those things are part of what we're called to do, but the the most important one, in in my opinion, Scott, is obedience to God.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_08: And and that includes, of course, seeking his will, avoiding sin, demonstrating the fruit of the spirit, and of course, for a husband loving his wife and and children.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_07: So when you're doing those things, or you're it's not like out of a have to, you want to because you want to be in relationship with Christ, and you're displaying that uh in the home, right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_07: You maybe pray, you're praying, reading.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_07: That I'm just going over some things you just mentioned.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_07: R praying, reading, um, even setting the example as far as involvement in different things that could be in a church body, could be in a church fellowship, it could be something that's in your home or in someone else's home, and you're displaying that for your wife and your kids.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_07: When he's doing that, what does how does that make you feel, Lisa?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_06: Cared for and loved.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_06: And uh I I learned so much by watching my husband live in a way that he's trying to live like Jesus.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, all right.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_08: And we should include participating in Kairos weekends in that list too, right, Scott?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, participation, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_06: Serving for sure, yeah, in many ways.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_07: And Lisa, you serve in the banquet community and other things, other functions in your church as well.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_07: Yes, and I know that, I've heard that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_07: So, and David's just right there being your cheerleader, I guess.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_07: And you're your his cheerleader on those weekends, or whatever he's doing, you're like, okay, tell me about tonight, what happened, or hey Dave, are Dave, you're asking Lisa, okay, so what did you guys talk about tonight?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_07: Is that the conversations that are had sometimes?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_06: We share a lot of our experiences with each other, yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_07: And then do you guys are do you are you like interested?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_07: You really want to know like from Dave, like, hey, what did you did you learn something tonight?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_06: We love having those kind of conversations.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_08: Absolutely.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_08: I I think Scott, just to just to praise Lisa a little bit, one of the things that she is really remarkable about is recognizing people that can use a meal.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_08: Um, maybe they've had surgery or a family member's ill, or a family member passed away, and they're just out of sorts.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_08: And she will not only cook a meal for them herself, but oftentimes organize a meal train for others as well.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_08: And she's she's really outstanding at that and thinks about it and and dives in whenever those opportunities come up.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_07: So, what I'm hearing is that attractive.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_07: You to her because she's putting Christ before herself.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_07: That's right.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_07: Same thing.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_07: So you could actually take this that the wives are putting Christ before themselves as well.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_07: That's right.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_07: I agree.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_07: And that attracts both of you, and vice versa.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_07: That's right.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_07: Well said, Scott.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_07: Um, so looking at the next verse there in 24, it says, now as the church submits to Christ, so as wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_07: So again, it's this isn't a negative thing.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_07: I'm I I I sense, you know, wives submitting to their husbands.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_07: How you know, it's again, it's repeated for a second time.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_07: Is that just a second time as like, hey, this is just as important as the first time?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_07: And is it the same thing?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_07: Is it something different?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_06: I think when the Bible repeats something, it's saying, Wow, this is even more important.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_06: So pay attention.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_07: And it's and and I like like how you did that, Lisa, and you must have listened to a previous podcast that you went to the verse prior, because the verse prior says submitting to one another out of reference of Christ.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_07: So it's one another.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_07: It's some people just that's the one thing.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_07: I love what you did tonight.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_07: It was a good reminder.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_07: I forgot going back to the verse before.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_07: Um, but still, if you go back to the verse four before and then you read this, it's basically you're submitting to one another.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_07: Because what Paul said in verse 21 said submitting to one another out of reference in Christ.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_07: And that is just in any relationship.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_07: And then he specifically goes into the marriage in this next section, and how both the husband and the wife should be.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_07: If they're doing that one verse, Dave 21, so submitting to one another out of reference of Christ.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_07: How hard would that the section here be?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_07: If you didn't understand 21 and you jumped into that, you could run with this, like, hey, wives, you guys submit to me.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_07: Is that right?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_08: It would be easy to misconstrue that verse.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_08: Out of context, yeah.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, yeah, take it out.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_07: Totally take it out of context, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_07: Um, so going into 20 um 25, it says, Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_07: Dave, when you hear that, um is it hard?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_07: It says, you know, what are some ways that Lisa Dave displays that in the years of your marriage?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_06: I would say probably the most life-changing submission that Dave had was uh he changed careers midstream.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_07: And so was that a difficult moment or in in your family, or is that or did you see that was difficult somewhat to Dave to do that?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_06: It was a difficult season in our family, and uh Dave listened to God and changed what he was doing.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_06: And the reason that he did that, he has you know, he's a physician, and all the training and everything that he put into building a practice, and you know, that's who he was.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_06: And in in that time, our faith was not maybe as strong as it is now, and that was a bit more of his identity.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_06: And um we had a five-year-old and a two-year-old at the time.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_06: I was fortunate enough to be home with them, but Dave was not home much because he was a really compassionate doctor.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_06: And so he would spend a lot of time with his patients, and then all the other things that go along with that just took so much time that really just weren't seeing much of him.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_06: And um, so we talked about it, and then God put an opportunity in front of him, and I said, Well, it's at least worth asking about.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_06: And that's that was the direction that God had for us as a family, and it allowed for him to um still use, you know, his training, but in a corporate setting, and he had regular hours, and he came back.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, he was more the Dave that I remembered, and um he got to spend a lot more time with our family.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_06: He coached the kids in their sports.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_06: Um, as the kids got into high school, you know, track meets and you name it, all the activities that they were doing, he was there and and they remembered that.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_06: And um, to this day, I just marvel at the beautiful relationship that Dave and I have as a married couple, and that he has with our boys because of that incredibly sacrificial decision that he made at that time.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_07: Because if I'm what I'm hearing is if he didn't make that decision, he might not had had the time to spend with you and with the kids, and have extra time to do that, is what I'm hearing.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_06: That's exactly right.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_07: And this was one time where that display was very evident or obvious that he was putting you guys before what he had has established was a a regular practice and probably had a bunch of clients and had a bunch of patients and a bunch of people that were coming.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_07: So doing that was a huge display.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, it was.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_06: And I I've never forgotten that.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_06: And it has it has it has borne so much fruit.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, now that you know we've gotten more involved with our faith and um in our free time, we enjoy serving others and giving back and and being more involved in our community um of faith.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_06: And he has the time to do that.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_07: So, Dave, when you made that decision, where do you think you were in your spiritual walk at that time?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_08: It's a great question, Scott.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_08: And um, I was a Christian, but um, I will say, and I know you've talked about the Great Banquet a number of times on your podcasts, and just just um to to clarify to everyone, Great Banquet is a 72-hour retreat where you're taught to love Jesus.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_08: You're you're taught what Jesus did for us and how to be a disciple of Jesus.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_08: And um about five years after I, six years after I made that change, I went through the Great Banquet.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_08: And although I understood before that I was a child of God, that was the first time that I really understood that I was a child of God and that that was my identity, not a physician, uh, but as a as a child of God.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_08: And um, it also was the first time that I really understood what it meant to have a personal relationship with Jesus.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_08: So, so that had that had an enormous impact on um sort of my perspective of the career change.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_08: And and as Lisa said, when I made the change, it was it was difficult for me because of what I viewed as my identity, although I was wrong what it was.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_08: And um and it took about three years, I would say, before I finally began to settle into this idea, okay, I am still a physician.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_08: I'm just not a clinical physician.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_08: Um, but as sometimes happens in life, God allows us to see the fruit of the trial that He's put us through.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_08: And and as Lisa said, God has allowed us to see that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_08: I can now, I can now look at that time in our life, the the difficulty it was for me to make that career change, but understand why God wanted me to do that and the fruit that's come out of it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_08: Not only that the relationship that Lisa and I share and that we share with our sons, but so many other relationships that part of them came through my my new employer that uh that many of them went through the great banquet or we're in community now together.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_08: And uh, and so we really, really in retrospect can look back and see exactly what what God was doing.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_07: So I can sense from you, Dave, that that was kind of a not an easy decision.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_07: That's true.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_07: Because it sounds like you had your identity in your job.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_07: That's true.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_07: And going through that weekend, kind of you recognize this might not be like the way it should be that I shouldn't put my identity in my job, but I should put it in Christ.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_07: And by doing that, it helped you the spirit helped you prompt you making some hard, difficult decisions based on that.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_07: Is that correct?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, all true scott, absolutely, and then that is a really huge display of that verse.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_07: Um, that basically you're displaying to Lisa that you're loving Christ and also the way you're gonna love her moving forward was out of as she sees that decision, she knew that that was probably a very difficult decision.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_07: And seeing how you responded and how you handled that, I imagine she was highly encouraged.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_08: You know, Scott, and I I would agree.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_08: Um, I think that my sons have both expressed their gratitude for that decision and and sort of the impact that it had on their lives, with me just being present for for their their events and and in growing up and being able to help them with their homework or whatever it was that they needed, or in in times when they were unsure of what to do, I was there as their as their counselor, as their dad, and to and to help them through that.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_08: And although we don't have any grandchildren yet, my hope is that God willing, if if we have grandchildren, that that will be passed down from our sons to their children too.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_08: And uh they will they will put their priorities as children of God and teaching their children about God and um and and continue that that trajectory that Lisa and I started now 25 years or so ago.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_07: Well, I appreciate you guys being vulnerable and sharing a good story like that.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_07: That was that's great, and it is a a big display there.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_07: Um looking going back into 26 and 27, it says that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_07: And this is going back to twenty-five, it says, give it says, Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of her water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or such thing that she might be holy and without blemish.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_07: When I I'd like to hear a perspective is just talking about reading scripture over her, praying over her, Dave?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_07: What what is this?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_08: It's a great question, Scott.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_08: And I think what Paul is asking husbands to do is treat their wives in the same way that Jesus treats his his church.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_08: And in order for me to effectively do that for Lisa, I need to try to see her as Jesus sees her.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_08: And and that kind of gives you a whole new perspective, right?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_08: Um, but practically speaking, I think again, it it it means modeling the behavior of a child of God.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_08: Um and that includes studying scripture together, praying together, um, encouraging Lisa in her in her fruit bearing and the the things that she does and her walk, exactly.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_08: And and on on the rare occasion when she may be doing something that's displeasing to God, gently, gently counseling her in that.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_08: So those are those are some of the ways that that I think we can model that and do that.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_07: Do you agree with that, Lisa?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_06: There have been so many times when I have felt God speak to me through my husband.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_07: Or vice versa.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_07: If I asked Dave, I imagine um Christ has spoke through those spirits, probably spoke through her as well.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_08: I I they have, absolutely, Scott.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_08: And I that was a a point that I really, really wanted to make that you know the the Bible says that the husband should be the spiritual leader of the household.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_08: But I I look at it as oftentimes this when when Lisa and I have a difficult decision to make or we're we're struggling with with something about which direction to go, and it's it's just not clear.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_08: Some in some instances the spirit has spoken to Lisa clearly, and and and that speaking is what guides us in our decision that it was it was sort of silent for me, and um, and so you're absolutely right.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_08: But it could go vice versa.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_06: Both ways for sure.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_08: That's right.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_07: All right, and then is it encouraging, Lisa, that you guys come together and sometimes we'll read scripture together?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_07: Is that encouraging?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_07: Um, or do you just do that on your own?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_06: Well, we both do it on our own, but we also do it together, particularly when we are trying to figure something out.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_07: I see that.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_08: And and we're also in a life group, Scott.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_08: Sweet.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_08: That we study scripture as part of our life group um um activities.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_08: So so we'll we'll usually have either a book or uh we'll we'll have a study guide for a book of the Bible.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_08: And uh scripture is always the basis of whatever it is that we're we're reading.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_08: So we will talk about that together as we as we go through chapters and know how it works with my wife and I's marriage, Tracy and I.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_07: Um she is doing a study right now with some women on First Peter.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_07: So she's like talking to me about first Peter, and I'm like, Oh yeah, I like this.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_07: I like it.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_07: And then she's like, Well, what are you studying?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_07: And I'm like, I'm in Exodus.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_07: And so she's like, Oh, okay, so can you tell me what chapter are you on?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_07: And then what was really um, I'll share this for just a second because it's just you, it's supposed to be about you two, but um she was in a Bible study on Sunday night, and they were going to do Genesis one, and she knew I had notes on Genesis one.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_07: She's like, Can I read your notes?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_07: And I'm like, Yeah.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_07: So I'm like, I found them and I'm like, here you go.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_07: And I said, now look, this is where I go.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_07: Because sometimes when if you read my writing, sometimes it's like kind of confusing.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_07: So I had to tell her, okay, this is coming from this, the Septuagint.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_07: This is coming from the net Bible, this is coming, these are where these notes come from, and prompts her to read that like I would have read at, and then how I conveyed that to whoever I was teaching, and so she's like, Oh, then so she got a lot out of it.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_07: So I'm sure that goes on with you guys too.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_07: So that's great, Scott.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_06: And yeah, I think it's really fun because we do get kind of excited, even like to share when we've had an aha moment.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_06: Because you know, if you've read the Bible all the way through, which many people have, and we both have, and yet every single time you study something, even if you've studied it a dozen times, you get something new out of it.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_06: And we do like to share that with each other.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_07: All right.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_07: Um, so going back into the scripture here, uh, says um 20, I think we're at 28.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, it says, in the same way, husbands should love your wives, uh uh, their wives, as their own bodies.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_07: He who loves his wife loves himself.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_07: For no one ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it just as Christ does for the church.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_07: So Dave, this is talking to husbands here.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_07: What were some takeaways when you when you hear that?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_07: What what what are some prompts in your mind that comes up?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_08: I think, Scott, I think of first of all, being selfless and even more so with your spouse wanting for her the best version of herself, that that you can support her, encourage her, assist her in a way that helps her to grow, to love the Lord more deeply, to bear more fruit, to be more effective in her godly endeavors on a day-to-day basis.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_08: And um I think it's so natural as humans to think about ourselves and our own agenda and what we want to do.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_08: But but thinking of it as a husband, really making my wife my top priority.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_07: So is it really uh so I think in past relationships, me it's hard to be uh selfless unless you have Christ as the forefront, right?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_07: Do you agree with that, Lisa, or do you think do you know a lot of like is that something that you struggle with, or is that something being selfless and not being selfish?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think in our flesh it's our nature to be that way, but I do think that by putting God first, your spouse second and yourself third, and your spouse does the same thing, that's the winning combination.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_06: Because then each of you are putting the other person first.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, Dave mentioned that both of our kids recently got married, and I wrote letters to my future daughters in love, and I put that in there as as the number one piece of advice that I had for them for marriage to be selfless, God first, your spouse second, and yourself third, and of course others in there too, but in terms of the hierarchy in your relationship with your spouse, put them first.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_06: And if you if you always do that, there's a verse in the Bible about trying to outdo each other and doing good.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_06: And if you're both thinking that way, um, you can't lose.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_06: Now, and I'm not saying that we're perfect at it, but if you're that way most of the time, it works out pretty well.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_06: And I'll give you an example.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_06: We um Dave just retired about four years ago, and our happy retirement.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_06: Our lives changed a lot because now he's at home.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_07: And I had you can't be you can't be selfish anymore.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_07: He's there, he's like, Hey, how's it going?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_07: With me, I'm singing my wife, good morning, good morning.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_07: And so she would hate that.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_07: So go ahead.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_06: Well, we actually really like each other, and so we do really enjoy spending time together.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_06: We spend a lot of time together, but I think there was a little dance that we kind of did at the beginning because we were recognizing that we both, you know, we had goals, and you know, certainly in his corporate life, he had goals every day.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_06: And I I had my goals, and we needed to figure out a way to kind of mesh those so that everybody was happy.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_06: And so I kind of started doing this thing that when we get up in the morning, we're having our coffee, I'll ask him instead of saying.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_06: This is what I want to do today.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_06: I will ask him in various different ways depending on the day.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_06: But it's what do you want to do today?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_06: What are you hoping to accomplish?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_06: And and then we weave both of our desires into the schedule.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_06: And that's really worked out pretty darn well.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_08: One of the things we do, Scott, is we have we have a shared schedule.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_08: So so we keep track of what's on the other person's agenda.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_08: And so that we can not only organize our days that way, but we can we can figure out how best to love each other and what we can do together amidst uh some of our commitments.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_07: My wife has highly encouraged us to have a shared calendar.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_07: So like she will say, Oh, you are doing that Saturday?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, I'm gonna put that on the calendar.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_07: And I'm like, Well, it don't need to be on the calendar, you just know it.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_07: And she's like, No, I need to be on the calendar.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_06: So when you get to our age, you need the visual reminders.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's it's really easy on our iPhones.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_06: You know, we can each add things, or we can go in and look to see if a night is open or a day is open or for whatever we want to do.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_06: And that that reduces schedule conflicts.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_08: Scott, just just to make one point, and I know you've you've talked about the difficulty as humans of being selfless.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_08: Because we're our flesh is selfish.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_08: Um, and I think that as a believer in Jesus, and once you understand the enormity of what Jesus did for us by his his death on the cross and providing us with the forgiveness of sins, the the added bonus of eternal life, the infusion of the of the Holy Spirit in us to help counsel us and guide us.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_08: And you take all of that into consideration, it it just hits me that you know, it brings tears to my eyes when I think about it, Scott.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_08: And and it's it's it makes it easier to be selfless when you think of what Jesus did for me.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_08: Um so that's that's sort of a motivation.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, that's that's that's a good way of putting it.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_07: I like that.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_07: Um and understanding what Christ did does make it easier to not be selfish but selfless.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_07: Especially if you're doing giving time to others and giving yourself to others and whatever that looks like, um, that does display that as well.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_07: Um going in the 28 and 20, we'll go through uh 28 through 30, it says um in the same way husbands should love their wives as own body.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_07: I read this, but um it says, but no one ever hated his own flesh, not but nourishes and cherishes it just as Christ does the church because we are members of the body.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_07: And then I'll just go ahead and thirty-one it says, Therefore a man should leave, shall leave his father and mother, and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_07: This mystery is profound, and I am saying um that it refers to Christ and the church.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_07: And in this, is this the leaving the mother and the father?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_07: Was there like was that hard for you guys when early?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_07: I know that's a long time ago, it's 35 years ago, okay.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_07: So was it hard or difficult leaving your mom and dad, either one of you?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_06: I can take that one.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, okay.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_07: All right.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_06: So Dave and I both are close to our families.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_06: And um, but when we were both a little older when we got married, we'd been independently, you know, living in our own, we both had our own places and sure.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_06: So that that was a good transition.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_06: But then when we got married, um, it seemed really natural, even though we were still close to our families, it just seemed really natural for us to really focus on building our own family.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_06: And we we built a house, we got a practice kid with our golden retriever.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_06: And, you know, just going to church and developing our, excuse me, just our network, our our sphere.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um and, you know, having just had two of our, you know, our two sons get married, I'm kind of looking at it from the other side as to they are now independent and you know, one flesh, and they're building their lives.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_06: And while we are still close, I definitely recognize that it's really important for them to build their lives as husband and wife.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_07: Dave, was it was it hard for you?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_07: I I to me, uh it wasn't difficult.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_07: This this scripture wasn't difficult for me.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_07: I imagine back then in the context when Paul in Paul's time that the daughter probably lived with the mom and dad for a long period, and they weren't necessarily independent.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_07: So, in this context, it was probably difficult for say a daughter were to leave the house and mar and and go and be with her new husband.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_07: But to you, was that the same Lisa hit it hit it out there?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_08: She hit it, she hit it well for me too, Scott.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_08: So I was 34 when Lisa and I got married.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_08: So so I was out of my purity.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_08: Way beyond that, yeah.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_08: Almost as long as what I I lived there, right?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_08: And uh so so no, it seemed it seemed very natural.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_07: And some people said you probably married up, right?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_07: Is that how oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_08: I married way up out of my league.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_06: I way out kicked my coverage.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, okay.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_07: All right.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_07: Um, as long as you guys agree on that.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_07: Um all right.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_07: Um, so the last verse here, uh it says, or the mystery is profound.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_07: I'm saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_07: However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_07: So the mystery is that the two become one, just like Christ became one uh the Christ and the church come together and be one.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_07: And when you become one, then the give and take, the respect, the things here that we've been talking about, submission, is that that comes easier, is what I'm I'm I'm hearing from this conversation tonight.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_07: Is that correct or it's absolutely correct, Scott.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_08: I I think that love, submission, and respect are all interlinked with our relationship with our spouses and our relationship with the Lord.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_08: And um we we want to we want to love like Jesus loves, and obviously that includes our spouse, our most intimate relationship in humanity.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_08: Um and uh and and part of that is just the respect that we have for the Lord and and what he's and what he's done for us.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_08: So um and and knowing his model of submission, that love and submission and respect all go hand in hand.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_08: And right it's easier than easy.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_07: So Lisa, the word respect comes up here um in this last verse.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_07: And I don't know if you know this, but I think um it's been said one of the reasons why divorce happens in today's world is the husbands don't feel their wives respect them.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_07: It's one of the most important things to a husband.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_07: Sometimes it it's been said that that is the number one thing, their wives didn't respect them.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_07: But what I'm sensing tonight that when he made the big decision that we talked about earlier in the podcast, that helped you respect him by making that decision.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_07: If you if you were questioning that up to that point, not saying you were, but it helped you respect him more by walking away from this thing that he had built and changing careers by putting his family, putting his relationship with Christ before himself.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_07: Is that correct?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, and it was such a bold move and so visible that I was constantly reminded of it.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_06: And then all of the ways that our lives just improved all the time.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_06: I was constantly reminded, and and I would thank him for that.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_06: I would let him know how much I appreciated the the closer lifestyle that our family had.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_06: And um I also think respect is helping them be able to do the things that they're gifted in.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_06: And that may be behind the scenes, you know, just helping to support them in whatever way they need, what or even just doing things to help them get ready for something is a way to show them respect for what they're doing.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_07: And Dave, do you does that make you love Lisa more when you realize she respects you in all aspects, just not oh, he's a great worker, but a great father, great husband, a um Christ follower, all that?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_08: It does, Scott, and I really appreciate Lisa's respect.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_08: And she reminds me of that often of the things about me that she appreciates and and respects.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_08: And it it gets back to where we began with submission.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_08: You know, I think in our in our current culture today, submission implies weakness, right?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_08: So does obedience.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_08: Right, exactly, exactly.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_08: And um, and in but in in God's context, submission uh fosters love, which makes the relationship even stronger.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_07: So last question, and we'll end the evening.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_07: If a young couple was listening to this podcast tonight, and they listen to you guys, what would be the biggest encouragement that I'm sure they've heard a lot through the podcast?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_07: This has been a really good podcast, just let you know.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_07: But what would be one of your biggest encouragements to the young couple that might be listening, or a couple that might be like, I think I'm I'm done Seek the Lord together, first of all.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_06: I think that's that's the foundation of living a healthy marriage is to seek the way God just just defines it.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_08: Um and I if I could jump in, uh Lisa, I I think that part of it is seeking a community of believers as well and uh together.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_08: Uh I think I think it's it's great for guys to be in guys' groups and women to be in women's groups, but but together be in groups of of couples, particularly other married couples.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_08: And I think that has a great influence as you go through life together and look at things that are changes.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_08: And and uh I'll give you a quick example.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_08: In our life group, uh one couple was gosh, about eight to ten years behind us in terms of the ages of their children.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_08: And so when they're when their children were graduating from high school and ready to head off to college, there's all kinds of emotions that a parent experiences in that circumstance.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_08: And so we could really help them with that.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_08: You know, for for some couples, when they become empty nesters, that's all of the time the realization that, hey, we we don't have anything in common.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_08: Why should we stay together?
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_08: Unfortunately.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_08: Um and and so I think community and uh, you know, a a community of other believers can be really helpful to a marriage.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_05: I gre I agree with all of that.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_07: You agree with all that, Lisa?
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_07: I do.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, all right.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_07: So I sense that the you were gonna say something, Dave.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_08: I I was gonna do we have still a few minutes.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_07: We got we got as much time as you want.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_07: It doesn't there is no time on here.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_07: So you know, we can keep on talking.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_08: So I was I was gonna ask Lisa to just tell a story of a way that she submitted to me.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_08: It's a brief story, okay, but it's it's about what we do on a yearly basis, hon, um with with walking.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_08: And uh and just tell the tell the story at the time that I retired.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_08: And it was a it was a great submission of Lisa to me, and we've had the opportunity then to see all the blessings and all the fruit that has come from that.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_06: So he was gonna retire in May.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_06: It was January.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_06: He came to me and he said, Would you like to walk the mini marathon with me in May?
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_06: And my flesh said, No.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_06: But I prayed about it because I knew he was looking for structure and things to look forward to, and you know, what retirement might look like.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_06: And so I prayed about it, and the Lord said, You need to say yes.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_06: So I signed us up, I printed out the registrations, I printed out the training schedule, I put them in a gift box, I wrapped it, and it was sitting on the kitchen counter when he got up the next morning.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_06: So that was my yes.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_06: And it was January, and it was time to start training.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it was cold.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_06: Here in Indiana, you're gonna have to bundle up if you're gonna go out and walk.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_06: But we started, and then as the miles grew, you know, you as you're getting longer mileage to prepare for the weekend for the weekend, um, we just we walk and talk and solve the world's problems.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_06: And as it turns out, in Dave's retirement, he's been writing Christian fiction and other Christian related books.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_06: And um, he's been so gracious to include me in brainstorming or any anything that I'd like to be a part of in what he's doing.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_06: And so now we walk all the time.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_06: We've um we've done the mini marathon five times in a row already.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_06: We've done the Dallas half marathon, um, and um, because that's where one of our sons lives.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and but now we just walk for the love of it.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_06: And the time together, the exercise.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_06: Um and it has become part of the fabric of what we do.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_06: And it it was just a huge blessing to say yes.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_06: I had no idea at that time what it would lead to.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_07: Nice.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_07: So what I heard tonight is that foundation in Christ, building on that foundation has helped you two grow together and has helped the submission not being a negative thing, but a thing that's an enjoyment.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_07: Is that correct?
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_07: That's correct, Scott.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_06: I consider it an honor to submit to him because he again, you know, what we talked about at the beginning about it's not a subservient relationship.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_06: It's there's something that we both bring to the table, but the there are times when somebody's got to take charge.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_06: And when he does that, I I'm so grateful.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_07: And that and that's a displays of love towards each other, is what I'm gathering.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_06: And because I know he goes to the Lord for those uh kinds of decisions and the outcomes that we have.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_07: Well, I appreciate both of you coming on.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_07: 35 years of experience and um being married and happily married.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_07: And um, so thank you for coming on.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you for uh being vulnerable in your stories, and I appreciate it.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and pray for Dave and I in a couple weeks.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_07: And uh anything you want to say in close, Dave?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_08: I think you covered it well, Scott, and I'm really looking forward to serving with you at Kairos early October.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_08: Again, again.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_07: We're gonna walk in together and spend some time together.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_07: So Lisa, sorry, he's gonna be there that weekend.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_06: I fully support it.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_07: All right, okay.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_06: Well, Scott, thank you so much for having us.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_06: It's been a pleasure.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_07: I you're welcome and you're welcome, Dave, and I appreciate both of you.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_07: So we're gonna close out on the band here at Pursuing the Heart.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_07: And uh again, um, this is Pursuing the Heart.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_07: Please uh like, share, and subscribe the uh podcast.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_07: Uh the more people that listen, the more people that will um be affected by the oh just about Jesus about Jesus Christ and about the gospel, and that's what this podcast is about, how we can sit down and have a casual conversation about scripture and how that displayed.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_07: Um, I might not even wanted uh Lisa to read the uh scripture beforehand, but I was like, I'm gonna do that, and um, so hey, that's how that works, and this is what it looks like, and you can work around things, right?
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_07: So um, thank you for you guys coming in.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you for listening.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_07: Um, again, like, subscribe, and share.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_07: And we are pursuing the heart.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, there is one little tagline that we like to say at the end of the podcast is there I'm testing you guys' knowledge.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_08: Is it keep your eyes on Jesus?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_07: Oh god, Dave, Dave just hit a home run, man.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_07: K Y E K Y E O J Keep Your Eyes on Jesus.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you, Dave.