Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Is Planned Parenthood Above the Law?

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Is Planned Parenthood Above the Law? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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Hey, welcome to another show.
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Thank you so much for tuning in and sharing.
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We're talking with President of Wisconsin Family Council and Wisconsin Family Action
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today, Jillene Appling.
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She's director of office operations.
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She's been there since 1998.
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And boy, we've talked a lot in the past, but not on this show.
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So first time on World View Matters, Jillene Appling, welcome.
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Well, it's good to be with you, David.
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I'm excited about your new opportunity and of the title, World View Matters.
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Let's roll.
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It does.
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We've been watching a presentation that George Barna gave recently, and boy, do we have
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a lot of work to do in this country when it comes to World View?
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But that's why we talk about the things we talk about.
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But before we get into some of the issues and plan parenthood as one of them and a couple
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of their cases, tell us a little bit about Wisconsin Family Council and for the listeners
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that don't aren't aware of what you guys do.
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Just share a little bit, please.
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Well, Wisconsin Family Council has been around, believe it or not, David, for about 36
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years now.
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And maybe 37, if I can think my if I can think my math through accurately, we've been doing
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the work we're doing for all those years, never wavering.
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Our mission is to strengthen, preserve and promote God's plan for marriage and family,
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the sanctity of human life and religious freedom in our state.
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We are unwavering in that commitment.
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We work with churches.
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We work with individuals.
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We have a Wisconsin Family Action Arm that does our lobbying in the state capital.
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We have a full-time director of legislation and legislative and policy.
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We are also heavily involved with the media.
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We offer them press releases.
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We respond to media requests, been doing a lot of that here the last two or three days.
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We work with churches to resource them so that they understand the issues of the day
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and can then speak with authority and knowledge to their people.
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We have a church ambassador network that operates to Wisconsin Family Council that connects
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pastors, the shepherds of our church, to what we call the shepherds of government, which
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is also God's plan, right?
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Government is God's idea, not man's and not for politics, not for policy, but to form
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redemptive, authentic relationships, earning the right ultimately to share the gospel.
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A wonderful opportunity for pastors to see our state capital and elected officials as
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a mission field, to be honest with you.
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We do a lot of research.
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We do a lot of involvement with elections and we manage to stay busy in the midst of
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this culture.
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David.
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Yeah.
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Thank you.
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I was going to ask you about the church ambassador network and I know we have a lot.
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We want to cover today, but I've got to talk about what a lot of people don't understand.
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What are you allowed to say and do in churches?
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Because people have this erroneous idea.
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They bought the lie of the separation of church and state.
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So how are you going into churches and talking with pastors about these issues?
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Shouldn't that be kept out of the church and the church out of politics?
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People are really confused about that, Jolaine, but I'm thankful for what you do.
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Talk a little bit about that to clarify for some people that might think we shouldn't
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really involve our church because maybe the Johnson Amendment, maybe there's some confusion
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there.
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Well, I'm sure there is confusion, but I also think sometimes there's some willfulness
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of David involved in this.
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There's a segment of our pastors, I think, unfortunately that just use some of this as
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an excuse to not talk about some of these things.
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And look, I love pastors and as an organization, we deeply appreciate them.
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They have a hard job.
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It is a tough job to pastor today.
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There's no doubt about that.
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But if the church does not speak truth to power and does not speak truth into our government,
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how do we expect to have any kind of different outcome from the kind of thing that we're dealing
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with now with the abortion issue, with the sexual immorality issue, human sexuality,
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with all the issues, you talk about worldview matters.
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Government is dealing with someone's worldview all the time.
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And if the church doesn't enter into those conversations, I think on at least two levels
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with government officials, but also with their people at the end of the pew, then the church
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is missing the mark and missing a golden opportunity to influence this culture, to have
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a say in the kinds of laws we have.
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Look, good law matters.
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Let me just put it out there.
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Law matters.
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And so I would prefer to live in a state in a country where we have laws that reflect
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God's character, his principles, his precepts, and his commandments.
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Why?
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Because it's good for everyone.
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And even if they don't agree with it, and they may not know it's good for them, because
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we're told in Scripture that we are to love the Lord, the Lord our God with all our hearts
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full in mind.
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And the second commandment is likened to it.
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Love your neighbor as yourself.
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So we do that.
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And the church dare not stay separate, but government has no right to infringe in the religious
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freedom of the church, and to dictate theology, to dictate practice.
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They've overstepped their boundaries time and time again.
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And I think there are all kinds of things in the wings right here in Wisconsin that could
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mean, they'll continue down that path that we're not very, very careful.
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Yes.
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Julian, you said a lot there.
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Thank you.
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I want to poke a little bit more and say, are you suggesting that we can legislate morality?
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We legislate morality every time a bill is passed.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Federal or state level, right?
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To me, one of the biggest lies that Satan has voisted on American people.
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So what is morality?
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It's someone's view of what's right and wrong.
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We base our view of what's right and wrong on the Scripture, but not everybody does.
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They base it on themselves.
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Talk to, talk to liberals today.
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They are their own determinant of right and wrong.
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Yep.
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They have a world view.
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So they view in his worldview, right?
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Yep.
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Yeah.
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Well, I was going to agree with you.
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And that's the kind of stuff they push, the godlessness and what we would call sin or
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evil or wickedness, that's the type of legislation they get behind, the murder of preborn babies
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and mothers, wombs, you know, destroying young people's lives, like doing unnecessary surgeries
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and telling them, telling them not to be happy with themselves and that they're just, they're
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just accidents.
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They have no purpose in life.
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And it goes on and on and on.
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So that's the kind of legislation that the left tries to push.
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You said it.
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Secularism.
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We are in a battle, friends.
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That's why this worldview issue is so important.
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Jillian, let's keep this moving.
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I want to talk to you about your case, since we haven't spoken in maybe six months, nine
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months, maybe you were attacked on Mother's Day a year and a half ago.
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Was it 2022?
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Okay, on Mother's Day, your offices were fire bombed there in Madison, Wisconsin, like
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many others across the country that were not really followed up on an investigated and
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some are who knows.
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But the Biden DOJ and FBI have become weaponized.
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They're not interested in pursuing real justice.
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That's my opinion.
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One man's opinion.
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But I want to hear your story and what happened for those that don't know what happened.
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Share what happened to your office is how long it took for them to get involved.
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And that you guys finally had to offer a reward and what's the status of the case now?
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Well, sure, you know, look, the DOJ decision was leaked on the Monday before Mother's Day.
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I knew then that something was going to happen.
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I just never dreamed it would be us and on Mother's Day or in the early morning hours of Mother's
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Day, someone here in Madison area probably came over to our office and attempted to completely
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destroy our office.
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Praise God, they weren't completely successful, successful.
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They created two more top cocktails, tried to throw one in.
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It didn't break the windows so they opened the they broke the window through the second
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one in.
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It did explode, but not nearly like it could have had it been made like a real Molotov cocktail
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should be made.
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I hate to say that.
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I know more about Molotov cocktails than ever dreamed I would, but they didn't get the
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damage.
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They wanted.
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They started a fire.
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So in this one on the outside walls, fire office was written if abortions aren't safe
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than neither are you.
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There was an anarchist symbol, all these things that are anti-law enforcement.
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James Revenge took credit for it with a couple of days later, but James Revenge, David,
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I don't know.
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James Revenge, I think, is much more of an internet type of thing where they instigate
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these things.
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Apparently, it's international and very, very difficult to kind of pin all this down.
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A lot of months went by and nothing was done.
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The day that the fire bombing took place, FBI was here.
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And of course, law enforcement locally was here.
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They took out physical evidence.
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And finally, in March of this year, I was told that they had made an arrest of one person
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in Boston who was getting on a plane with a one-way ticket to go to Guatemala.
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Wow.
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Yeah, this is kind of fun.
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So to put this thing in perspective, we were the first of the organizations to be attacked
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in the wake of the Dobs issue in the leaked opinion.
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And then after us, and I told them, by the way, the day that this happened, I told media
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out and I certainly told law enforcement, the sooner you move on this, the less likely
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we are to have a situation across the country.
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Copycat.
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Yeah, well, and it happened.
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I mean, now we're over like a hundred of these.
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And they're still going on.
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Yeah.
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But earlier this year, there was an anti-police rally at the state Capitol.
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And they were riding graffiti on the sidewalk.
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And somebody over there said that looks like a lot like the graffiti that was on Wisconsin
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Family Actions Wall.
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So they tracked the guys that got into the car after they had done the graffiti, figured
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out who owned it, and then started putting a tail on him.
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And in March, apparently ate outside somewhere.
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He was eating Mexican food and from someplace, and he does the happy burrito in a trash can.
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They stripped the DNA off that happy burrito and tracked this guy out there to Boston.
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Now he's back here in Wisconsin, an awaiting trial.
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No, it is true that there are two other sets of DNA that are still out there.
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And I met with the local law enforcement and FBI agent and a attorney with the U.S. District
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Attorney's Office last week.
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And they are actively still pursuing all of that.
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And the date for the trial for the gentleman who's been arrested is coming up.
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He's charged under a federal law.
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It's just all federal that would have a five-year minimum and a 20-year maximum sentence.
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Should everything go that way.
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But so anyway, that's where we are.
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I'm sitting in my office, the background that you see, this is, you know, we've replaced
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everything that was blown up and ruined in that fire bombing attempt.
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We put all kinds of protective measures in place in our office to secure our staff as
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we should and taken the extra steps to make sure that whatever we are doing and wherever
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we are, that we have some measure of security.
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Thank you, Jolaine.
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It is so infuriating for the hundreds and hundreds of these cases across the country.
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Some of these are pro-life pregnancy centers that don't have a lot of money.
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And now they've got to hire more security.
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They've got to repair what was, like, I think of Jim Hardin in Buffalo, New York, Compass
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Care.
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But anyway, we've got to move on.
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We've got to take a break already.
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When we come back from our break with Jolaine Appling, we're going to talk about Wisconsin
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family actions response to planned parenthood of Wisconsin resuming abortions, and I thought
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abortions were illegal in the state, but we'll clarify that coming up next.
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Today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily.
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The world news biblically understood, stay informed at Harbinger's Daily.com.
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Our guest, Jolaine Appling, President, Wisconsin Family Council, and the news came out that
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planned parenthood announced it will resume performing abortions at its Madison and Milwaukee
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clinics, despite the fact that Wisconsin's abortion ban is still allegedly in effect.
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That's interesting.
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Jolaine Appling, I remember during COVID, when a lot of things were shutting down, and
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the church was told we were non-essential and churches shut down.
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Plan parents put, they were putting out banners saying we're still open for business, and
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they were.
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But this is different because apparently in a lot of states, there are still bands against
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abortion.
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Tell us about your response and what's going on here.
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Well, the beautiful thing is today that the US Supreme Court on June 24, 2022 said,
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hey, there's no right to abortion in our US Constitution, and we're throwing this issue
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back to the state.
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Our pre-row law in Wisconsin immediately kicked in.
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That very afternoon planned parenthood of Wisconsin said they would no longer be doing abortions
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in their three facilities in Shibuya County, Madison, Ardenne County, and Milwaukee County.
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And so since that day, and last year through yesterday, this past Monday, there were no,
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as far as we know, there were no abortions done because our ban prohibits most abortions
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in our state, except for the life of the mother.
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And there was immediately after the US court decision came down to three or four days later,
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our attorney general, Josh Kyle, filed a lawsuit challenging our pre-row law, and it's been
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working his way through the court system.
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But at this point, David, no judge has come out and definitively said that statute, 940.04
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in Wisconsin statutes, that statute is not enforceable and given the reasons for it.
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That has not happened, okay?
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And no, the legislature has not revoked it through legislative action.
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So as we talk right now, that statute should be in effect.
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But Planned Parenthood says, oh no, we're above the law.
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And we are going to take the law into our own hands.
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So basically what they're doing is flaunting the rule of law.
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It's horrible to kill these unborn children.
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It is a sign of a culture that has absolutely, totally rejected God.
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And he's given them over to largely, to a debase, reprobate mind, if you look at Romans
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chapter one, but Planned Parenthood wasn't alone in this.
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How long comes Governor Evers shortly after Planned Parenthood announced this last Thursday
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saying, oh, this is wonderful.
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We're congratulating Planned Parenthood on the opening up their abortion facilities again
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and giving women the healthcare they need.
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So here we have the governor putting a stamp of approval on this illegal activity.
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We are just living Romans 1 versus 24 through 32 in real time, right here in Wisconsin,
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right now.
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But the governor was wrong on so many levels, number one, the rule of law should matter
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to the governor.
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But number two, David, how many times do people like you and I say this, abortion is not
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healthcare.
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It's not, it's not healthcare.
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But I wanted to quote part of what Evers said, Wisconsinites will once again be able to
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access vital reproductive healthcare and abortion services without exception for the first
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time since June of last year.
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This is critically important news for Wisconsin men and patients across the state.
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And here he is cheering this on, Julianne, but like you said, you said something very important.
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It's as if he doesn't care about the rule of law.
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We just spoke with Pastor Andy Woods last week about some law schools now teaching that
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we should abolish the constitution law schools in our country.
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So it's no surprise that the left, especially a leftist governor like Evers would say,
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that's just, yeah, whatever, that's just a state statue.
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We can, yeah, I'm all for a plan, parenthood doing what they do.
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And it sends a message, I think, what do you think's going to happen now as a result of
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this news here?
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Well, bear in mind, first of all, not an attorney.
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So I'm not talking from a legally definitive position here, David.
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We talked to attorneys.
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In fact, I talked to an attorney today.
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He said, you know what they're saying and all this is a constitution is basically worth
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the same thing as toilet paper.
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Wow.
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I mean, seriously, that's, that's the degradation they're doing to the, to the constitutions.
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I think that part of what's happened here to be very candid about this.
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I think that probably every court at every level in Wisconsin, by that I'm talking about
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Dane County Court, the Dane County Court where the lawsuit was originally filed, the
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pellet court over in this district, as well as our state Supreme Court has signaled
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to Planned Parenthood.
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Hey, don't worry about it.
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We've got your back.
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This could go up to the Supreme Court.
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It could stop at a lower court since somebody would have to appeal it.
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I'm not sure attorneys are looking at all of this.
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I think part of their calculation is probably boy with this flip we had in our Supreme Court
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as of August 1st.
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And by the way, I refer to that as an earthquake happened on August 1st in Wisconsin and what
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it registered off the Richter scale because it was the seismic activity was so, so big
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when we flipped that Supreme Court from mostly four threes conservative to four threes liberal.
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So we're living with a David elections have consequences.
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So all these people who are all now all in a stew about this, where were you and we
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were out there begging for people to make sure they voted in April, you know, so here
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we are.
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Yeah.
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I knew that would come up again.
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Elections have consequences because they do.
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But let's move on, Elaine.
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We're already under 10 minutes here to go.
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Donald Trump recently attacked pro-life legislation signed by governor Ron DeSantis in Florida.
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Let me just explain and get your take on this.
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pro-life leaders condemned president Donald Trump for calling a six week abortion ban
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a terrible mistake.
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Trump made the comments and referenced to Florida's six week heart beat protection act
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abortion ban signed in the 2024 actually by DeSantis and DeSantis.
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I want to get his response here.
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Donald Trump may think it's terrible.
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I think protecting babies with heartbeats is noble and just and just and I'm proud to
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have signed the heartbeat bill in Florida and he goes on, oh, I got to share this.
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DeSantis always said, I don't know how you can even make the claim that you're somehow
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pro-life if you're criticizing states for enacting protections for babies that have heartbeats.
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That's governor Ron DeSantis.
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So Julian Appling, strong words, but I'm on DeSantis side here.
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I want abortion abolished period illegal across the country, but state by state, there are
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choices that need to be made on how to deal with this.
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Your thoughts on this recent news story?
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Well, you know, it's 2023.
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We're facing 2024 and Donald Trump is in full election mode.
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Absolutely, unbridled election mode.
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I think you made a misstep here, you know, how often when he campaigned in 16 and 20 and
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when he was president between 17 and 21, how many times did he have to kind of backpedal
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on things that he said and you know, I didn't mean that.
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Look, I agree with you, David.
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I agree that that Ron DeSantis did absolutely the right thing, a six week heartbeat bill
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is an amazing thing because basically it stops all abortions because that heartbeat
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can be detected so early now according with the technology we have.
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I think Donald Trump is going to be going to have to be much, much more careful.
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If he expects the pro-life community, the pro-life base in this country to gather around
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him and coalesce around him to try to win the presidency in 2024, his words, whether
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they were completely within context or not completely within context, did not resonate
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do not resonate well with pro-life people like you and me and countless tens of thousands
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of others around this country.
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And we're all scratching our head and say, well, I thought you were supposed to be pro-life.
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And when you come out and say something like that, it rattles us and it makes our confidence
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and diminished.
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Yeah, one reason it rattles us is because it shows the little willingness to compromise
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on a really important issue to a lot of people, human life, pre-born babies and mothers
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whums.
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So I do want to say, though, I do want to say I was proud of the legislation and the
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policies during the Trump administration, Kudos, and I continually gave Kudos to Donald
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Trump and his administration that the most pro-life action that we've seen in history.
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So even more than Ronald Reagan.
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So I definitely am thankful for what he did when he was in office.
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But now to take a little step back to try to maybe look more moderate, I don't know that
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that was wise.
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So let's move on, Jolaine.
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One more thing.
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We only have time for this case here.
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Let's share these bureau versus Wisconsin Labor and Industry Review Commission.
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There's something that happened back in April that the Wisconsin Supreme Court was to decide
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if this particular Catholic ministry was religious.
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What is this about and give us an update on where this case is at?
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Yeah, well, this is fascinating.
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This actually happened about four or five years ago that the Catholic Charities Bureau
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were coming on to superior was told by this agency in the state that they had to pay into
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the unemployment compensation program.
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And they said, no, no, no, we get the religious exemption because what we're doing is religious.
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And the agency said, oh, no, no, no, it's not.
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So here you had a state agency telling a religious organization named the Catholic Charities
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Bureau that what they were doing was not religious.
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And so this thing has wound its way to the Supreme Court.
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Our organization joined with a number of other groups to file a friend of the court
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brief in support of Catholic Charities Bureau because David, if the state can start determining
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what constitutes religious, religious activity or religious organization.
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In my opinion, it is not a very far step or leap to tell churches, oh, I'm sorry.
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You have a food, a soup kitchen, or you have a used clothing program for the poor in
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your community.
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Or maybe you have an addictions ministry or maybe you have a youth program that reaches
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out.
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And we don't think that's religious.
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How far?
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That's not a big leap.
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This is about religious freedom and who gets to determine what is religion or religious?
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This is a dangerous, dangerous time and think about the court it's before here in Wisconsin.
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So people all of this country that are listening to this and don't live in Wisconsin, pay attention
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because this is big.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's what you just said.
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What's the difference between religion and religious and there's just such a fine line
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and how it's going to be defined and we don't want government to define that.
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But anyway, we're already down to just a couple minutes, Elaine.
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So I just want to say thank you for all the work you do.
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We're nonprofit here.
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I know you're nonprofit as well.
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And you received donations, Wisconsin Family Council.
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How can people get in touch with you and get more information about what you do there?
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Sure.
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Thank you, David.
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They can contact us by phone at 888-378-7395 or visit our website at wifamilycouncilcouncil.org.
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You know, email us, text us, all of that's available through our website.
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I think you can text us through our website.
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We talk about texting like, you know, everybody does this, but we love to have questions
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from people.
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And by the way, Thursday, we're having what we call a huddle up with our heroes in the
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evening at 6.30 if they jump on our website, or I think if they go to wifamilyactionactually.org
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David, they can go to events and sign up for it.
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It's either council or action.
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Thanks for our little busy right here.
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By the way, when Planned Parenthood broke this news, I was
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out of the office.
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I was up north.
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We were doing events.
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I did, I did 12 to 15 interviews that day trying to keep all this straight because this
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was big, big news about Planned Parenthood killing our future and doing so illegally.
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Incredible days.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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The left, I say the God haters have become emboldened.
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I also say that they still need to be reached with the gospel.
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And once we tell them the good news about Jesus Christ because it is an open invitation,
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they have to receive, but it's not up to us how they receive.
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A lot of them are in rebellion and denial of our creator, which causes them here.
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The worldview comes up again at the end of the program here today, Jelaine.
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The worldview, their worldview says, there is no God.
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There's no creator.
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So I am my own God.
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I can do whatever I want.
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And we have to worship nature, mother earth or whatever they call it.
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So nature is more important than human beings.
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So we've we're in this mess, but Jelaine, thank you for what you do.
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We'll talk to you again before Lord willing, before the end of the year, but thanks for
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your time today.
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God bless you, sister.
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Likewise, David.
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God bless you as well.
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All right.
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Well, guys, tomorrow, let's see Chad Davidson.
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He's an elder at Blessed Hope Chapel, Seamy Valley, California, also a very integral part
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of good fight ministries.
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And you can go to goodfight.org to get a little sneak peek on tomorrow's show with Chad.
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And then Wednesday, Dan Fisher, he's a pastor in Oklahoma.
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He's part of Liberty Pastors.
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He wrote a book on bringing back the black, robed regiment, also a book on unlimited
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submission with a question mark, whether the church should submit in all cases to the
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government.
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And then we've got author Pamela Welk, cancer survivor, and she's just an amazing evangelist.
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So that's going to be on Thursday.
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Thanks for tuning in for sharing.
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And as always, God bless you and keep speaking the truth about things that matter.