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How Marty Brounstein Had One Leg Up In Never Forgetting the History of the Holocaust 1-27-25 · OneLegUpAlex Media

0:01
Speaker 1: Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day, and on the One Leg
0:05
Speaker 1: Up Network, I am taking a bit of a more
0:08
Speaker 1: somber tone because obviously it's not a cheerful day. It's
0:13
Speaker 1: not a happy day. It's a day of sadness, a
0:18
Speaker 1: day of remembrance, a day of remorse, and a day
0:23
Speaker 1: of never forget. And in this Hilloholocaust day of remembrance,
0:31
Speaker 1: while we remember those Jewish people who were ruthlessly murdered
0:40
Speaker 1: by the Nazis, there's also stories of hope that I
0:44
Speaker 1: want to bring to the table this podcast. And if
0:48
Speaker 1: you remember the name Marty Brownstein, he was on my
0:52
Speaker 1: show four times and he unfortunately passed in twenty twenty
0:58
Speaker 1: twenty from COVID, but from actual cancer. But I want
1:03
Speaker 1: to keep his legacy going because he kept the legacy
1:07
Speaker 1: and lives and stories of a Christian family that helped
1:15
Speaker 1: make sure numerous Jewish families were safe. The family that
1:23
Speaker 1: he talks about that saved and hid these Jewish families
1:29
Speaker 1: were known as two of the Righteous Few. Two among
1:32
Speaker 1: the Righteous Few was the book. And so on this
1:35
Speaker 1: eightieth Holocaust Remembrance, I want to say thank you to
1:41
Speaker 1: Marty Brownstein for continuing the legacy of those who helped
1:46
Speaker 1: the Jewish people during the time of persecution at the
1:51
Speaker 1: hands of the Nazis, and I always want to thank
1:54
Speaker 1: Marty by continuing his legacy here on the Wallet Up
1:57
Speaker 1: Network by playing for you our very last conversation, which
2:02
Speaker 1: was about the difference between the Jewish folks that had
2:06
Speaker 1: to stay in place and their hardship compared to our
2:14
Speaker 1: staying in place, which at the time felt and I
2:18
Speaker 1: still believe was temporary, unlike what the family is that
2:23
Speaker 1: this Christian couple husband and wife did to shelter Jewish
2:30
Speaker 1: families in place during the Nazi reign of terror. Take
2:37
Speaker 1: a listen to my conversation from back in twenty twenty
2:41
Speaker 1: with Marty Bronstein, and also our entire catalog of conversation
2:48
Speaker 1: will be in the description below. This story really feels
2:52
Speaker 1: like it hits home because a lot of people are
2:55
Speaker 1: sort of bored in the house and they're worried about
2:58
Speaker 1: sheltering in place. But let's turn back the clock to
3:02
Speaker 1: Jewish refugees escaped Nazi Germany who had no choice but
3:07
Speaker 1: to shelter in place to survive. And I love your
3:11
Speaker 1: take on that perspective of the coronavirus crisis.
3:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it makes what we're going through much easier. Yeah.
3:19
Speaker 2: So the story related to my book, The Righteous View
3:23
Speaker 2: to who made a Difference is the story of this
3:26
Speaker 2: Dutch Christian couple named Franz and mean wein Ocher, who
3:30
Speaker 2: during World War Two, when their country, the Netherlands, was
3:32
Speaker 2: under the brutal occupation of Nazi Germany, they got involved
3:37
Speaker 2: when most did not, and in the end they say,
3:39
Speaker 2: the lives of more than two dozen Jews some certain death,
3:42
Speaker 2: which is why later on they get that heroic honor
3:45
Speaker 2: was called righteous among the nations where the word righteous
3:47
Speaker 2: comes from in the book title, So quite remarkable, an
3:51
Speaker 2: interesting thing. You picked up one thing I was able
3:54
Speaker 2: to do because most everything I normally do during this
3:57
Speaker 2: period got shut down. Of course, speaking events in book
4:02
Speaker 2: discussions in schools. One school was able to have me
4:06
Speaker 2: do a zoom video. They had the students read the book,
4:08
Speaker 2: They got them prepared so as if it was normal,
4:10
Speaker 2: we just did it via zoom and we had some
4:13
Speaker 2: of the students wrote some things. And one of the
4:15
Speaker 2: things they wrote to why I wanted to get this
4:17
Speaker 2: in to what you were just saying. The students said,
4:20
Speaker 2: you know why it's tough during this Corona virus and
4:22
Speaker 2: to be sheltered in place in our homes and all that.
4:26
Speaker 2: It pales in comparison to what the Jewish refugees went through.
4:30
Speaker 2: Thank goodness there were people like Fronz, I mean wein
4:32
Speaker 2: Ocher who helped save them. Great perspective.
4:36
Speaker 3: Well in on the book, Marty Brown.
4:39
Speaker 1: Since we've last talked, you've actually been picked up by
4:42
Speaker 1: a different publisher.
4:43
Speaker 3: Congratulations on that, Yeah, thank you, thank you.
4:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Just so recently, I've been something I've been working
4:49
Speaker 2: in US a long time to get a more credible
4:51
Speaker 2: publisher behind this story that's been out there, journey with
4:55
Speaker 2: it nine years in Square one Publishers out of your area,
5:00
Speaker 2: Long Island said yes, we'll be willing to get behind this,
5:04
Speaker 2: and they picked it up and now have republished it
5:06
Speaker 2: slightly altered title, but still the same story. And they
5:10
Speaker 2: even gave me got a two for one deal if
5:13
Speaker 2: all goes well. At the end of this calendar year,
5:16
Speaker 2: I have another story that will be out titled Woman
5:18
Speaker 2: of Valor, and that's the true story. Also under this
5:22
Speaker 2: umbrella of inspirational stories of resistance and rescue during the
5:26
Speaker 2: Holocaust and that's the story of a woman named Edecaiatt
5:30
Speaker 2: who's a Jewish woman who escapes into the woods in
5:33
Speaker 2: Poland and becomes part of the leadership of an all
5:37
Speaker 2: Jewish partisan unit, and she lived to tell about it.
5:40
Speaker 2: So it's another story like the one with the vine Okers,
5:43
Speaker 2: of these very inspirational people who went against tremendous odds
5:48
Speaker 2: but stood up and made a difference.
5:50
Speaker 1: That difference the resistance back then, truly heroic. Now, I
5:55
Speaker 1: know we had last spoken about your trip to New
5:58
Speaker 1: York and what that was like any more reaction from
6:01
Speaker 1: the fall visit to New York and actually your presentation
6:07
Speaker 1: in downtown Manhattan.
6:08
Speaker 2: Well, that New York trip I had in the fall
6:11
Speaker 2: was a terrific trip. I ended up having I think
6:14
Speaker 2: six different events, one inside of school and five I
6:18
Speaker 2: think public events. And it was all very as I
6:21
Speaker 2: keep experiencing on this, all very well received. And I've been,
6:26
Speaker 2: you know, going like gangbusters with the book and the
6:29
Speaker 2: journey of sharing that story all the way through mid March.
6:32
Speaker 2: Then the world stops, you know, and one upside down
6:35
Speaker 2: and I spent we spend a couple months every winter
6:38
Speaker 2: in the Phoenix area, So I had a very active
6:41
Speaker 2: time in the Phoenix area. And one of my events
6:44
Speaker 2: just that I can highlight one is I also take
6:46
Speaker 2: this book into workplaces with a workshop titled making a
6:51
Speaker 2: Positive Difference. And I had one with City of Goodyear,
6:54
Speaker 2: which is a suburb of Phoenix, and we had the
6:57
Speaker 2: management people all there, about seven in the audience, and
7:01
Speaker 2: I do the storytelling with They then draw lessons from
7:05
Speaker 2: the story to make a positive difference in their roles today.
7:08
Speaker 2: And this was an organization really working hard to build
7:10
Speaker 2: a positive culture. And boy was that discussion rich. And
7:14
Speaker 2: they got into it. And afterwards as they all came
7:17
Speaker 2: up to get a book, they were just thanking us
7:19
Speaker 2: for really making this joyous experience a very inspirational story.
7:24
Speaker 2: So they were very moved by it. So it's just
7:26
Speaker 2: part of wherever I've been going, and this is one example,
7:30
Speaker 2: and I had it in New York. The only reason
7:32
Speaker 2: this journey keeps going is people tell me you have
7:34
Speaker 2: to keep sharing this very important story.
7:36
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I just had a friend of mine
7:38
Speaker 1: a couple days ago doing e signing of his book.
7:41
Speaker 1: Have you thought about doing any virtual signings virtual zoom
7:45
Speaker 1: meetings to further talk about the book?
7:48
Speaker 2: I haven't looked to do that greatly. Just did it,
7:51
Speaker 2: you know zoom discussions that I do instead of the
7:54
Speaker 2: live book discussion I do in the class. A couple
7:57
Speaker 2: of teachers were able to arrange it by zoom. Most
7:59
Speaker 2: others have it. I haven't looked to do presentations through
8:03
Speaker 2: a virtual means to me, I need the live audience,
8:07
Speaker 2: so I haven't, you know, I figured we'll wait it out.
8:10
Speaker 2: The life will hopefully come back to normal when groups
8:12
Speaker 2: can gather. Certainly, the events I was going to have
8:15
Speaker 2: on April, in March, latter half of March, April May
8:19
Speaker 2: and into June aren't going to happen now, but hopefully
8:22
Speaker 2: we'll get them back one day. And it's okay because
8:26
Speaker 2: it's the experience of it in person, as you've experienced
8:30
Speaker 2: when you saw me last fall. I don't. I have
8:33
Speaker 2: not even thought it can't be done. I mean I
8:37
Speaker 2: heard someone tell me, as in a kin and good,
8:39
Speaker 2: you know, good luck to them. Saturday Night Live people
8:42
Speaker 2: doing skits individually in their own homes with no audience
8:45
Speaker 2: in front of them. I mean, I heard someone tell
8:48
Speaker 2: me as in a kin and good, you know, good
8:50
Speaker 2: luck to them. Saturday Night Live people doing skits individually
8:54
Speaker 2: in their own homes with no audience in front of them,
8:58
Speaker 2: you know, and they all felt so strange about it.
9:00
Speaker 2: I was told I hadn't seen it, but people were
9:02
Speaker 2: telling me about it, and it's like, yeah, I think
9:04
Speaker 2: I don't want to I'm not looking to do that,
9:07
Speaker 2: you know, still getting the word out and stalking to
9:09
Speaker 2: people just informally and getting our Facebook and Instagram postings
9:14
Speaker 2: of just things, sharing things that students have said. And
9:17
Speaker 2: so when things can pick up again, we'll go back.
9:21
Speaker 2: This is so key to live audience, unless it's again
9:25
Speaker 2: like I did with the schools and I have maybe
9:27
Speaker 2: a book club, we can do virtual discussions. That works
9:30
Speaker 2: different than in essence of performance where you need a
9:34
Speaker 2: real audience.
9:35
Speaker 3: Well I know that, Marty Brownson.
9:36
Speaker 1: You're not gonna let the coronavirus stop a nine year journey, right,
9:40
Speaker 1: I mean this this has hit us, but you're not
9:42
Speaker 1: gonna let it stop it stop you.
9:44
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely? You know. In essence, I had a pretty
9:48
Speaker 2: busy schedule for the spring. Summer is usually where there's
9:51
Speaker 2: a couple months where it gets quiet and then it
9:53
Speaker 2: picks up in the fall. My hope is that come fall,
9:56
Speaker 2: all the things that we were starting to plan and
9:58
Speaker 2: get booked, and we can go back to do more
10:01
Speaker 2: that everyone is healthy and groups can gather and we
10:04
Speaker 2: can get back doing it again because I know normalcy
10:07
Speaker 2: will come back. We need it badly. Of course, people
10:11
Speaker 2: can get back to work and get back to life
10:13
Speaker 2: and the story will be timeless. And I know from
10:16
Speaker 2: a few people who are supporting me, they tell me
10:19
Speaker 2: this because it relates to what you've been asking. Is,
10:23
Speaker 2: after this is over and people can start to return
10:25
Speaker 2: to normalcy, they're going to need something to provide them
10:28
Speaker 2: a sense of hope, sense of inspiration. Your story will
10:32
Speaker 2: do that. It's going to be wanted more than ever.
10:34
Speaker 2: So that's my hope.
10:36
Speaker 1: So I mean, Marty, you see people complaining about being
10:40
Speaker 1: sheltered in place and being in lockdown, knowing what you
10:44
Speaker 1: know about the survival of them the Jews fling Nazi Germany.
10:49
Speaker 1: Doesn't that roll your eyes when you see people complain
10:51
Speaker 1: about today's shelter in place?
10:56
Speaker 2: No, I have it. You know it's rolled my eyes
10:59
Speaker 2: and all that. I mean, it's you know, in essence,
11:02
Speaker 2: you're understanding because you know this gives you that greater perspective.
11:06
Speaker 2: I understand when people are you know, bored to Obviously,
11:11
Speaker 2: what you read in the paper is a lot of
11:12
Speaker 2: people are badly in anxiety through this period. You know,
11:15
Speaker 2: you're stuck at home, you can't work. In some cases
11:18
Speaker 2: you lost your job, and you know, or your kids
11:21
Speaker 2: are always around, and it's just a very different existence,
11:24
Speaker 2: you know. I think it's just recognizing it for what
11:27
Speaker 2: it is. You know, while we face this health crisis,
11:31
Speaker 2: we're working through it. You hit it. It's not like
11:35
Speaker 2: during the Holocaust when these Jews staying inside was their
11:40
Speaker 2: best hope and luckily they found people like the vine
11:43
Speaker 2: Ounkers who could shelter them because they wanted to go
11:46
Speaker 2: out on their own because they were feeling confined. Fine,
11:50
Speaker 2: your chance of the survival will go way down because
11:53
Speaker 2: you get captured. It's over where. At least here and
11:56
Speaker 2: my wife and I do this, you know, we go out.
11:58
Speaker 2: We go for walks, you know, four or five times
12:01
Speaker 2: a week. We're getting out to do a good walk
12:03
Speaker 2: because at least you can do those things. We can
12:06
Speaker 2: go to the grocery store to buy some things. All right,
12:08
Speaker 2: wear the mask that ain't so bad in the greater scheme.
12:13
Speaker 1: Well, as you know earlier this week, Mayor Deblasio broke
12:17
Speaker 1: up a one hundred plus people gathering of a funeral
12:21
Speaker 1: for a rabbi in the Orthodox Jewish community. He got
12:24
Speaker 1: a lot of heat for that, But in your mind,
12:29
Speaker 1: was it infringement of religious rights on the Jewish community
12:32
Speaker 1: there or was he doing what needed to.
12:34
Speaker 3: Be done in this time of social distancing.
12:38
Speaker 2: No, I think it's not an infringement. It was the
12:40
Speaker 2: right move New York City. I'm based in the San
12:43
Speaker 2: Francisco Bay area and they were probably one of the
12:45
Speaker 2: first places to just shut down shelter in place, and
12:48
Speaker 2: that's where we have not seen the virus, you know,
12:52
Speaker 2: take off to the huge numbers. New York City is
12:54
Speaker 2: the worst spot in the country. And the fact that
12:56
Speaker 2: you have these in place, but people have these game
13:00
Speaker 2: other things like a funerals, is like, no, you got
13:02
Speaker 2: to get common sense back. And it may be a
13:05
Speaker 2: sign that the people there is somewhat i'll say self
13:09
Speaker 2: contained Orthodox Jewish community isn't necessarily too aware of the reality,
13:14
Speaker 2: even though my understanding from what I read is they're
13:17
Speaker 2: one of the highest rates of the virus hitting because
13:19
Speaker 2: they live in such a close community. So sometimes common
13:24
Speaker 2: sense gets thrown away. So I don't think he was
13:28
Speaker 2: not infringing on a religious freedom. He was really trying
13:31
Speaker 2: to promote health and safety. And so that's the whole
13:35
Speaker 2: key to this whole thing. And I know when I
13:36
Speaker 2: see these protests too of people open up, stop the
13:39
Speaker 2: sheltering having in a few different states in the country. Oh,
13:44
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard that one yet. I know there's been
13:46
Speaker 2: another state, so, you know, and I can understand the
13:49
Speaker 2: people's frustration. You know. The flip side is what these
13:52
Speaker 2: you know, leaders are doing, is they're being cautious and
13:56
Speaker 2: the reality is based on the numbers we're seeing. It's
13:59
Speaker 2: not like we're back to gee, we haven't had a
14:01
Speaker 2: reported case at least three weeks. Then then if we're
14:04
Speaker 2: all stuck, I say, what are you doing? So it's
14:07
Speaker 2: testing people's patients, no doubt, not.
14:09
Speaker 3: Easy, and Marty, I mean it's true.
14:11
Speaker 1: We don't want to open up and then all of
14:12
Speaker 1: a sudden have to go back into lockdown.
14:14
Speaker 3: I mean, that's just another issue that's.
14:16
Speaker 2: Lowly, yeah, and you don't want and that's what happened
14:19
Speaker 2: with the pandemic of nineteen eighteen. And I know we
14:23
Speaker 2: had some stories in our paper here in San Francisco
14:26
Speaker 2: where boy they caught it, you know, sheltered people in
14:29
Speaker 2: place for months early on, was very small and so
14:31
Speaker 2: everyone after a month they said okay, and then they
14:34
Speaker 2: just totally let loose and they got hit with a
14:37
Speaker 2: whami of many people getting ill and dying then. And
14:40
Speaker 2: so it's like you got to learn those lessons. So
14:42
Speaker 2: when you come back West likely, and that's what the
14:45
Speaker 2: health experts are advising, you take it in small steps.
14:49
Speaker 2: Group gatherings will probably be at the end when you
14:52
Speaker 2: can all come back and you can go to that concert,
14:54
Speaker 2: debt movie, this sporting event, you can come to one
14:57
Speaker 2: of my public storytelling of presentations. But you know, he's
15:01
Speaker 2: got to give it due time. So I'm starting, at
15:04
Speaker 2: least in our area, they're doing little steps. You know, construction,
15:07
Speaker 2: all levels of construction can go back to work, just
15:10
Speaker 2: follow these you know, health guidelines. You know, everyone has
15:14
Speaker 2: mask and keep a distance as you work, and that's
15:16
Speaker 2: doable in time. I hope to see more of that.
15:20
Speaker 2: I think that's all going to be doable if people
15:22
Speaker 2: be patient. So it's not like they just said, you know,
15:25
Speaker 2: lights are off and don't ever come back. No, we'll
15:28
Speaker 2: come back.
15:29
Speaker 1: Well, you just mentioned patients, and I mean patients is
15:32
Speaker 1: kind of what got the moon Okers through and of
15:37
Speaker 1: course the Jewish, the Jewish people staying in place that
15:42
Speaker 1: that was a lot of patients there.
15:44
Speaker 2: Oh yes, patience, you know, interesting to that point is
15:49
Speaker 2: one of the challenges that Fronz had, me and weyn
15:51
Speaker 2: Oker faced on occasions with a few of the Jewish refugees.
15:55
Speaker 2: And it's not surprising. And they had like a couple
15:58
Speaker 2: of nineteen year old girls that they had placed. They
16:00
Speaker 2: had this rescue network, not just people in their own home,
16:03
Speaker 2: and those girls didn't want to be cooped up. That
16:06
Speaker 2: was how it felt for them, and so they ended
16:07
Speaker 2: up having to get shifted around because everywhere they went
16:10
Speaker 2: they it became a problem. They wanted to go out
16:12
Speaker 2: dating with the and then the people who had like
16:15
Speaker 2: a son in the house who wanted to date the girls,
16:17
Speaker 2: say hey, we can't keep them here anymore. And so
16:19
Speaker 2: there was that impatience not recognizing this is what we
16:23
Speaker 2: have today as well, not recognizing the dangers that are
16:26
Speaker 2: there today. Our life and death is not somebody coming
16:30
Speaker 2: in to kill us. But it's still this health crisis
16:34
Speaker 2: that says, this virus doesn't have doesn't discriminate. It goes
16:38
Speaker 2: after anybody and everybody if you're not careful, So stick
16:42
Speaker 2: with it. Be careful because in the scheme of things,
16:45
Speaker 2: the actual numbers when you look about to the total population,
16:48
Speaker 2: it's a small percentage, but it's enough and the devastation
16:52
Speaker 2: that comes with it is enough to say we all
16:55
Speaker 2: have to be careful because we can't just gamble that
16:58
Speaker 2: I'll be fine and too bad for you. No, it's
17:01
Speaker 2: the patience that it required. Unfortunately.
17:05
Speaker 1: Well, and on that front of moving around, I mean
17:09
Speaker 1: this rescue mission that the Bonnachers did, right, it was
17:15
Speaker 1: a moving process, like you have friends.
17:17
Speaker 3: Going everywhere in the middle of the night.
17:18
Speaker 1: I was right, interstate kind of travel.
17:22
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, no, good, good question. I mean what
17:24
Speaker 2: he was doing where they lived was in countryside in
17:28
Speaker 2: southeastern Netherlands, and where the refugees that were coming his
17:32
Speaker 2: way when this rescue operation took off were coming from
17:36
Speaker 2: the major cities in the west to our train ride.
17:38
Speaker 2: So he was sometimes going on the train and then
17:41
Speaker 2: he'd kind of have to sneak him out and not
17:45
Speaker 2: supposed to sit together on the train. Later when he
17:48
Speaker 2: thought the train got too risky because that the train stations, too,
17:51
Speaker 2: many of the Gestapo around and the Dutch police helping them.
17:55
Speaker 2: Then they even got them transported into the backup like
17:58
Speaker 2: trucks and milk trucks and so all of that is
18:02
Speaker 2: very risky, let alone in their local area when he
18:05
Speaker 2: was shifting people around or going out to provide supplies
18:09
Speaker 2: or other support, got to do all that at night.
18:12
Speaker 2: So it's an amazing thing to go through that because
18:16
Speaker 2: when you think about that, they were living this hanging
18:20
Speaker 2: over their heads the whole time. Was this threat, this danger,
18:23
Speaker 2: this high risk that are they're caught. All the Jews
18:26
Speaker 2: they're helping are gone, They're gone, possibly their four little
18:28
Speaker 2: children are going to go with them. And yet Franz
18:31
Speaker 2: and mean thrived on it. And she was key by
18:34
Speaker 2: the way, and the whole thing. What a strong woman
18:35
Speaker 2: she wants.
18:36
Speaker 1: To well, let's talk about that, because I mean, how
18:41
Speaker 1: much of a backbone was she and how crucial was
18:45
Speaker 1: her role in this whole mission.
18:50
Speaker 2: Yes, me kept the house running. I mean, Franz was
18:54
Speaker 2: there at times, of course, but she was really and
18:58
Speaker 2: this is the nineteen forties. This was a strong woman
19:01
Speaker 2: and that's not common in that time period. So she's
19:05
Speaker 2: the one off and pushing Franz. And she's the one
19:07
Speaker 2: that sometimes when challenges came up, she's the one that
19:10
Speaker 2: stands up and stands from for what's the right thing
19:13
Speaker 2: to do, and you know, we're not going to know.
19:15
Speaker 2: As an example of this, they had an incident. This
19:18
Speaker 2: was kind of early on in the rescue activity, where
19:20
Speaker 2: they had just started with three Jewish children, and this
19:22
Speaker 2: was the oldest of those children, was a seventeen year
19:25
Speaker 2: old girl. And there was who they would send out
19:28
Speaker 2: to be able to work at other people's homes under
19:31
Speaker 2: a false identity Dutch identity, Agnes to being the false name,
19:36
Speaker 2: and even some of the work she did at means
19:38
Speaker 2: mother's home, but then none of them knew there. But
19:41
Speaker 2: mean had a younger brother living at home still named Bertis,
19:45
Speaker 2: and something came up with somebody and one day they decided,
19:48
Speaker 2: we're going to have Agnes come here. We're going to
19:49
Speaker 2: give the message that she had to go back to
19:51
Speaker 2: Amsterdam to take care of her mother who got ill.
19:54
Speaker 2: And one day Franz and Meaner going off to church,
19:57
Speaker 2: which they were seldom did together, not leaving the children
20:00
Speaker 2: alone usually, but they had people in the house now
20:03
Speaker 2: and they told Agnes to stay in here and clean
20:06
Speaker 2: up and all that, and who comes over when he
20:08
Speaker 2: normally didn't stop by. Bertis and Mean had the sense
20:12
Speaker 2: at church there was something up, but Franz, we got
20:14
Speaker 2: to leave now. So they leave. They don't stay to
20:17
Speaker 2: the end of Mass. They come home and there's Bert's
20:19
Speaker 2: sitting in their living room, and he had surprised Agnes.
20:22
Speaker 2: He'd snuck through the window because the doors were locked,
20:25
Speaker 2: and he says to Agnes before they show up, I
20:28
Speaker 2: think you're Jewish, aren't you? And then when Franz and
20:30
Speaker 2: Mean come to the house short time afterwards, he tells
20:32
Speaker 2: them she's really Jewish. You know. She didn't really go
20:35
Speaker 2: back to Amstam. Oh, and Franz was getting nervous, like,
20:38
Speaker 2: oh boy, well, Barretis, you can't say anything because, by
20:40
Speaker 2: the way, if the underground found out, they might choose you.
20:43
Speaker 2: Means it didn't hesitate. If you speak, I will shoot you.
20:48
Speaker 2: She said, firm and strong like that, and he was
20:51
Speaker 2: like shaking in his booths. This was one tough lady.
20:55
Speaker 3: And she gets recognition as well.
20:58
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely in on the end when this recognition comes
21:02
Speaker 2: many years later after her death, even of righteous among
21:06
Speaker 2: the nations. When you see the plaque, it's Franz and
21:10
Speaker 2: Maine Weinacher full named her Mina on the plaque, and
21:13
Speaker 2: you can see with them together, he could not have
21:15
Speaker 2: succeeded without her being behind him, helping keeping this going,
21:20
Speaker 2: staining strong. And to the people they were helping, they
21:23
Speaker 2: always looked selfless and fearless. So whatever was bothering them,
21:27
Speaker 2: scaring them, whatever, they kept it private between the two
21:31
Speaker 2: of them, which worked beautifully.
21:33
Speaker 1: Well. I know also that you've got quite the backbone
21:36
Speaker 1: in your household in your wife.
21:38
Speaker 2: Lead.
21:39
Speaker 3: How's she doing during this?
21:41
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, my wife, Leah Bars is part of
21:45
Speaker 2: my I have a very meaningful personal connection to this story,
21:48
Speaker 2: as you know when I reveal at the very end
21:50
Speaker 2: of my storytelling presentations, and of course we'll give your
21:55
Speaker 2: listeners kind of the spoiler alert just to give them
21:58
Speaker 2: some context of that. Talk more about my wife. But
22:02
Speaker 2: among the two dozen plus Jews that Fronz had mean
22:04
Speaker 2: saved was a young, married Jewish couple similar as to
22:07
Speaker 2: them when they arrived out of Amsterdam in the fall
22:10
Speaker 2: of forty three. The wife of this couple had a
22:13
Speaker 2: secret she could not keep secret any longer. She was
22:16
Speaker 2: already pregnant. You know, how do you get a baby
22:18
Speaker 2: born to a Jewish woman and Nazi occupied all and impossible,
22:22
Speaker 2: but among the many challenges and dangers risk that Franz
22:26
Speaker 2: I mean face, this maybe was again the most impossible,
22:29
Speaker 2: but they took it on and in brief they performed
22:32
Speaker 2: a miracle, got the baby born, and they kept her
22:34
Speaker 2: safe and together. And now it's been a little over
22:38
Speaker 2: thirteen years. I get to call her my wife, Leah
22:41
Speaker 2: Bars and she's doing well today, making the best of
22:45
Speaker 2: these situations too, going out for bike rides. She went
22:49
Speaker 2: out to hike to a park that she really likes.
22:51
Speaker 2: It has nice hills and kind of get gets away
22:54
Speaker 2: from things, so she stays active. And certainly when the
22:57
Speaker 2: journey is live, she's certainly been my number one supporter
23:00
Speaker 2: along the way. So I count my blessings. I mean,
23:04
Speaker 2: the last time we were able to go out for dinner,
23:05
Speaker 2: by the way, and that was why we were still
23:07
Speaker 2: in Phoenix there last night before they shut down a
23:09
Speaker 2: little bit after California. It was for our anniversaries, so
23:13
Speaker 2: at least we got the last dinner in good time,
23:16
Speaker 2: and then we then we drove back to the Bay area.
23:18
Speaker 1: Well, how about this ninety nine year old Albert Chambers,
23:22
Speaker 1: who a British soldier that survived not see Germany in
23:27
Speaker 1: the camp and has all survived Corona virus. I mean,
23:31
Speaker 1: folks like those, we can never not hear from right,
23:36
Speaker 1: We can't hear enough stories about those kind of recoveries
23:40
Speaker 1: and the fact that you got to recover from Corona
23:43
Speaker 1: as well.
23:44
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, they're treasures. People like that are treasures who've
23:47
Speaker 2: lived through a piece of history and gone through hard times.
23:51
Speaker 2: But you know, in essence, I hope his family descendants
23:54
Speaker 2: they've gotten his oral history because these are great stories.
23:59
Speaker 2: Upon one of the places I've had a good radio
24:01
Speaker 2: interview as well, in Phoenix. The guy's had me on
24:04
Speaker 2: two straight years because he loves the idea of stories
24:07
Speaker 2: and he works with seniors in his business. But he
24:10
Speaker 2: likes that families capture story. So you're quick about this guy.
24:14
Speaker 2: I hope his family has captured his story. He's got
24:17
Speaker 2: wonderful history.
24:19
Speaker 3: Talk with Marty A. Brownstein.
24:21
Speaker 1: He's the author of the new title The Righteous View
24:26
Speaker 1: to who made a Difference a new publisher as well.
24:29
Speaker 1: So Marty, of course, thanks for joining us and during
24:32
Speaker 1: this time where we're looking for uplifting stories. Yours is
24:36
Speaker 1: certainly one where can people find it right now to
24:40
Speaker 1: be uplifted during this time.
24:42
Speaker 2: Well, certainly they can go to now again the challenges
24:45
Speaker 2: if you go to Amazon dot com these days, they're
24:47
Speaker 2: not shipping books too much so inundata, but you can
24:51
Speaker 2: certainly order through bonds Andoble dot com, Amazon dot com,
24:54
Speaker 2: or go to the publisher directly Square one with the
24:59
Speaker 2: word any publishers dot com and you can certainly place
25:03
Speaker 2: an order if they go to my website that links
25:06
Speaker 2: them to Square one, and my website is www dot
25:10
Speaker 2: Marty A. Brownstein dot com and Brownstein is the r
25:15
Speaker 2: O U N S T E I N. And certainly
25:19
Speaker 2: this is a great time to have a good read.
25:22
Speaker 2: So I hope they do. And I Alex, you're one
25:25
Speaker 2: of the great supporters I have on this journey which
25:27
Speaker 2: has helped me keep this going. So thank you.
25:31
Speaker 1: So Marty, you just you mentioned the Zoom stories with
25:34
Speaker 1: the students and how important to rid whatever anti Semitic
25:40
Speaker 1: views some might have as early as elementary school and beyond,
25:46
Speaker 1: you know, in the in the school level, how important
25:48
Speaker 1: is it that this education that you're providing gets them
25:51
Speaker 1: to change hearts and minds before too long.
25:56
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, it's extremely important. Well, in essence, education is
26:00
Speaker 2: what helps people overcome ignorance and prejudice. And so again
26:07
Speaker 2: it's for me. It's always been the teacher, and I
26:09
Speaker 2: probably take this into twenty five to thirty schools every
26:11
Speaker 2: year where in most cases the students have read the
26:14
Speaker 2: book before I come, and I wee discussion high educational impact.
26:19
Speaker 2: And sometimes I'll hear from students. You know, I've studied
26:23
Speaker 2: some on the Holocaust. They may get some things in
26:24
Speaker 2: their history classes, and that's always about the terrible tragedy
26:28
Speaker 2: it was. But this is a very special story because
26:32
Speaker 2: here meets the horrific tragedy is something positive and what
26:35
Speaker 2: they really take Now again, I get the same thing
26:37
Speaker 2: when I do this with adults in the storytelling, in
26:40
Speaker 2: the workshops they do in workplaces. People are able to
26:44
Speaker 2: see the lessons of a character that this story teaches.
26:47
Speaker 2: That's why I get told yours is more than just
26:49
Speaker 2: a Holocaust story. Yet I'm educating them on the Holocaust
26:53
Speaker 2: at the same time. So audiences where I just do
26:55
Speaker 2: the storytelling and just briefly touch on some history and
26:58
Speaker 2: life in the Netherlands history and now let me tell
27:00
Speaker 2: you about Fronz and mean they get a lot out
27:02
Speaker 2: of it. And so it's the value of what education does.
27:06
Speaker 2: It's the power what good stories do because they teach lessons.
27:10
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm experiencing in this journey all the time,
27:13
Speaker 2: which has been the fun, exciting part.
27:16
Speaker 1: And so I'm sure actually talking to the kids, that's
27:19
Speaker 1: one way you're actually learning more about people on this journey.
27:25
Speaker 1: Like even the students are teaching you things that maybe
27:27
Speaker 1: you didn't pick up on or whatever during your nine
27:32
Speaker 1: year journey with this, with this amazing story.
27:35
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, you know, I'm no author goes nine years
27:40
Speaker 2: doing I on one, you know, on a book, and
27:42
Speaker 2: doing that I do far more than promoting a book.
27:44
Speaker 2: And with it's the audiences, it's the supporters like you,
27:48
Speaker 2: and I've had many others. I could tell stories all
27:50
Speaker 2: day about things that supporters have done. And and in fact, no,
27:55
Speaker 2: I think I did you know I got a Jefferson Award.
27:58
Speaker 2: I think I just had gotten that when IW you
28:00
Speaker 2: in the fall. And so all of those things come
28:04
Speaker 2: from just you know, back to my learning. I'm learning
28:07
Speaker 2: about a lot of good people along the way, who
28:09
Speaker 2: just understand I say, the character of what Fronz I mean,
28:13
Speaker 2: wehin Ocher and others liked them to teach because that's
28:16
Speaker 2: the way a lot of people want to lead their
28:18
Speaker 2: lives or want their children to learn from, which is
28:21
Speaker 2: why I do these educational things as well of it.
28:24
Speaker 2: And it really makes a difference.
28:25
Speaker 1: And so you've definitely turned this story into an educational
28:30
Speaker 1: tool for not just kids but adults.
28:34
Speaker 3: I mean, everybody can.
28:35
Speaker 2: Learn from this, yes, you know. And now just if
28:38
Speaker 2: I can share a little something too with that. When
28:41
Speaker 2: I was in Arizona for my two month stint and
28:44
Speaker 2: I have great reception with groups down there, I did
28:48
Speaker 2: a couple of courses there. There were like five sessions
28:52
Speaker 2: seven and a half hour courses called Heroes of the Holocaust,
28:56
Speaker 2: and I explore with the audiences. One was a through
29:00
Speaker 2: a Senior and Richmond program. One was a group of educators.
29:04
Speaker 2: And what I'm doing is telling stories of this area
29:07
Speaker 2: of Holocaust education publication, least known, least recognize, resistance and rescue.
29:13
Speaker 2: And I tell about other righteous beyond my too that
29:15
Speaker 2: I represent, of course, beyond the vine Ockers, and I
29:19
Speaker 2: also talk about there were Jews who rescued Jews, and
29:22
Speaker 2: there were Jews who actually did get into resistance and
29:25
Speaker 2: fight back. And I tell the stories of a good
29:28
Speaker 2: handful of both Jews and non Jews like this, and
29:31
Speaker 2: people just love the stories, how they're inspirational. And so
29:35
Speaker 2: that's been the neat thing of you know, I'm a
29:37
Speaker 2: storyteller in this area of people often don't realize this
29:42
Speaker 2: area of Holocaust education, if you call it education, is
29:46
Speaker 2: more than just helping people never forget. It's about really
29:50
Speaker 2: apply the lessons of character. That's what makes it neat.
29:53
Speaker 2: And the stories of I could be going all day.
29:55
Speaker 2: I could give you, you know, four or five right
29:58
Speaker 2: off the top of mine. Hey, this was an amazing
30:00
Speaker 2: Here was an amazing person who you know, had the
30:02
Speaker 2: courage and compassion to make a difference.
30:06
Speaker 1: Talk with Marty Brownstein. Marty in the tragedy of the Holocaust,
30:12
Speaker 1: had you yourself experienced loss of relatives or ancestors in
30:18
Speaker 1: the horror that was the Holocaust?
30:20
Speaker 2: Well, certainly, of course, my wife Lea's family, she lost
30:25
Speaker 2: over twenty relatives during the Holocaust. You know, in my family,
30:30
Speaker 2: it would be probably distant relatives because at this point
30:33
Speaker 2: my parents grew up in Canada and that's where they are,
30:36
Speaker 2: so they were certainly safe. My mother's father and my grandfather, though,
30:41
Speaker 2: we had relatives in Europe, and I know in the
30:43
Speaker 2: thirties he worked hard to raise some funds and he
30:46
Speaker 2: was able to get some of them, a good many
30:48
Speaker 2: of them out to what was then Palestine today Israel
30:51
Speaker 2: before World War two started, and it was not easy
30:54
Speaker 2: to do that. So, you know, I know, those kinds
30:57
Speaker 2: of things that happened, you know, at least in my family.
31:01
Speaker 2: But you know, you know, fortunate or not. You know,
31:03
Speaker 2: we I didn't have descendants who came from Europe at
31:06
Speaker 2: that point they came to They are the major descendants
31:09
Speaker 2: which would be on my grandparents' side who come from Europe.
31:13
Speaker 2: You know, they came in to North America in the
31:16
Speaker 2: late nineteenth early twentieth century. So luckily they weren't there,
31:20
Speaker 2: but sure there was probably distant relatives who do perish.
31:23
Speaker 2: At least to my grandfather, he saved some. So thank goodness.
31:27
Speaker 1: Well, that is very interesting that your grandfather saved Jews himself.
31:32
Speaker 1: I mean, what a book that could make right?
31:35
Speaker 2: Yes, and I wish I had more inform you know.
31:37
Speaker 2: Unfortunately he's not alive, but I remember him talking about it,
31:39
Speaker 2: and it would be something to dig one day. Who
31:44
Speaker 2: these cousins were that he saved. I know of them,
31:46
Speaker 2: but it's too many years pasted. Unfortunately, some of those
31:48
Speaker 2: people for that sources are not around. And Canada was
31:52
Speaker 2: like the United States then, Canada's government philosophy that they
31:56
Speaker 2: made policy was none as too many, which meant that
32:00
Speaker 2: they were not going to allow refugees, especially Jewish refugees,
32:03
Speaker 2: to come. The concept of refugees was not something that
32:07
Speaker 2: was cared about, understood applied prior to World War Two
32:12
Speaker 2: at all, which of course causes many more to perish
32:15
Speaker 2: in the Holocaust than could have You know, which would
32:17
Speaker 2: have been who could have been saved had more countries
32:20
Speaker 2: like Canada, US, Great Britain, who could have most helped
32:23
Speaker 2: stepped up.
32:23
Speaker 3: But they didn't want You.
32:27
Speaker 1: Lived or were born in Canada or what was your origin.
32:30
Speaker 2: Like, well, I didn't, my folks did so, but most
32:33
Speaker 2: of my relatives are Canadians, so I was when my
32:37
Speaker 2: when I was born, I was raised in the Chicago area.
32:40
Speaker 2: My dad had come there. He had gotten his you know,
32:43
Speaker 2: he served in World War Two. He was a veteran
32:45
Speaker 2: in the Canadian Air Force, and then he got his
32:48
Speaker 2: education after the war, which is where he meets my mother,
32:51
Speaker 2: and then a job opportunity for which eventually becomes a
32:55
Speaker 2: company called Union Carbide that doesn't exist today, but it
32:58
Speaker 2: did well. Brought him to Chicago, where we were raised,
33:00
Speaker 2: and he had a very good career there. And so
33:04
Speaker 2: but we went to Canada all the time. I've been
33:06
Speaker 2: there so many times, and my relative today you would
33:09
Speaker 2: find mostly in Western Canada where they came from, with
33:13
Speaker 2: Saskatchewan where the winters are long and hard. None are
33:15
Speaker 2: left there now, but most are in Alberta and British Columbia,
33:20
Speaker 2: and so it was always fun. I mean for Americans,
33:22
Speaker 2: the reality is Canada is the easiest country in the
33:24
Speaker 2: world to travel in because it's most like the United
33:26
Speaker 2: States outside of Quebec. And so they know more about
33:31
Speaker 2: the United States than Americans know about Canada, because if
33:33
Speaker 2: the US just knows about itself in any cases, but
33:37
Speaker 2: they get American television and all that, but you know,
33:39
Speaker 2: you're not you know, I don't have to even drive
33:41
Speaker 2: on the different side of the road. The language is
33:43
Speaker 2: the same, the currency is similar, so it's a very
33:46
Speaker 2: easy country to travel and you can feel right at home.
33:49
Speaker 2: So Canada always is to me then somewhat home, certainly.
33:54
Speaker 2: I have relatives now that have their concerns about American
33:56
Speaker 2: politics and leadership today. Have told the advanced coming here
34:00
Speaker 2: until some change in your administration occurs. That's topics for
34:04
Speaker 2: other days. But I always enjoy when we've been able
34:08
Speaker 2: to do those visits. We were open to go this summer.
34:11
Speaker 2: I still have an aunt who's eighty nine living in Vancouver.
34:15
Speaker 2: Her husband died a few years ago, my mother's brother,
34:19
Speaker 2: and she's a great lady, and we wanted who have
34:21
Speaker 2: been there for two years. But right now no travel
34:23
Speaker 2: plans for the summer till the world opens up again.
34:27
Speaker 2: We were hoping to get to the Netherlands this summer
34:29
Speaker 2: to go back and visit the vine Ochers too, but
34:32
Speaker 2: right now no such plans can be executed.
34:35
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, Marty, because I know
34:37
Speaker 1: that actually the vine Ackers, one of their sons still
34:41
Speaker 1: lives in the original house, right that is what you
34:43
Speaker 1: were telling us.
34:44
Speaker 2: One of his sons, Franz Weinocher Junior, lives in the
34:47
Speaker 2: actual house where his parents' rescue activity took place. He
34:50
Speaker 2: owns it today. It was a rental event and he's
34:53
Speaker 2: remodeled it so it won't look the same. In the book,
34:56
Speaker 2: we have pictures of the house of the nineteen forties
34:59
Speaker 2: and then the house of present day, but it's the
35:04
Speaker 2: same spot. He's there. And you know the other four siblings,
35:09
Speaker 2: there's five of them now, all live within fifteen twenty miles.
35:12
Speaker 2: So we've been, we've now, I've been to the Netherlands
35:15
Speaker 2: four times. The very first time with my wife. Her
35:19
Speaker 2: curiosity led us to for her reconnect with the vine Okers,
35:23
Speaker 2: who she'd lost touch with, and now we're in touch with.
35:25
Speaker 2: In fact, we just recently skyped Nellie, the oldest, who
35:31
Speaker 2: is the one we stay with when we go, and
35:33
Speaker 2: just to see how she's doing during this crisis. And unfortunately,
35:37
Speaker 2: she lost her husband about a month ago, unrelated to
35:39
Speaker 2: the crisis. He was in his eighties and had some
35:42
Speaker 2: heart conditions and just time caught up with him. But
35:45
Speaker 2: she's doing fine, and the rest of the family's doing fine.
35:49
Speaker 2: And the other person we go visit is the very
35:52
Speaker 2: first person who the vine Okers took into hiding and
35:56
Speaker 2: saved under her false deus name Frasche of Growth. Her
36:00
Speaker 2: real name is Shula, married named Schwartz. She lives in Haifa, Israel,
36:06
Speaker 2: and we're still in touch with her, and through her
36:10
Speaker 2: daughter we get messages and so we talked with them
36:13
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago and she's doing okay, just sheltering
36:16
Speaker 2: in place in her apartment in Haifa, Israel. But she
36:19
Speaker 2: had a girlfriend back to something you mentioned earlier, who
36:23
Speaker 2: lived a block away from her, name Anne Frank. When
36:25
Speaker 2: she was in Amsterdam, and luckily she met a guy
36:28
Speaker 2: named Franz Weinocher and got out of the city because
36:30
Speaker 2: the chances of surviving in the major cities was slim.
36:32
Speaker 2: There was just too many people around, too many of
36:35
Speaker 2: the Nazis and others authorities. You're gonna get rated out,
36:39
Speaker 2: and they did, the Franks did. But Shula made it
36:42
Speaker 2: to this countryside and the whole two year to the
36:45
Speaker 2: time period she was there from the beginning and still
36:48
Speaker 2: going strong. She soon turns ninety two.
36:50
Speaker 3: Well, and talk about Israel for a minute.
36:52
Speaker 1: You know they're about to start an unprecedented change there
36:56
Speaker 1: where it's gonna be the current Prime minister, baby Nittin Young,
37:00
Speaker 1: who will be leading Israel for thirty six months. And
37:05
Speaker 1: then and afterward it will be the Benny Gans team
37:11
Speaker 1: then stepping in and taking charge of Israel.
37:13
Speaker 3: What do you think about that?
37:15
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, we'll see how it works. They've been stale
37:18
Speaker 2: made it for almost a year, so it's they need
37:21
Speaker 2: something to at least get a government functioning that you
37:24
Speaker 2: know it's going to move forward, whether you like net
37:26
Speaker 2: and Yaho or not. I know there's a controversial figure there.
37:30
Speaker 2: Let's hope that helps. I mean, they're obviously Israel, Holland
37:33
Speaker 2: everywhere I've been dealing with this health crisis right now,
37:36
Speaker 2: and so hopefully they all can open up soon and
37:39
Speaker 2: she will can come outside again. But we got to
37:42
Speaker 2: see her last May at this know how we just
37:45
Speaker 2: hit May. We were seeing her last year at this
37:48
Speaker 2: time and May we went for the first couple of
37:50
Speaker 2: weeks to Israel and we got to see her and
37:53
Speaker 2: hand their birthday card for her ninety first birthday. And
37:56
Speaker 2: now here we are a year later. We just mailed
37:58
Speaker 2: the card. Now twenty second coming up. But she's still
38:01
Speaker 2: going strong.
38:02
Speaker 1: Thank goodness, Thank God for that, especially in the time
38:04
Speaker 1: we're in. Have you tried Marty Brown seen to broach
38:10
Speaker 1: the Palestinian community with this story with this heroism to
38:17
Speaker 1: try and build a bridge there between Israel and Palestine.
38:21
Speaker 2: No, I haven't, No, I haven't. I haven't done that.
38:24
Speaker 2: I you know, that's a that's a bigger branch or
38:28
Speaker 2: walt climb. Can you can you ever bring people together
38:31
Speaker 2: to help resolve differences and all that? So you know,
38:35
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that yet. I haven't attempted to go
38:38
Speaker 2: into that. You know, the challenge right now and there.
38:42
Speaker 2: And I last was a year before when I was
38:44
Speaker 2: about a year ago at this time, I was in
38:46
Speaker 2: New York before I met you, and there was a
38:50
Speaker 2: she's a very good professor there at Manhattan College, and
38:55
Speaker 2: Mana Za Freedi, who's the head of the Holocaust Center
38:58
Speaker 2: with Manhattan College. You have to be a Maslim woman
39:02
Speaker 2: was born in Pakistan before moving the United States. But
39:05
Speaker 2: she writes he write a book and one of the
39:06
Speaker 2: things she talks about is that in her efforts as
39:08
Speaker 2: of trying to get the Maslim world to recognize the
39:11
Speaker 2: Holocaust and to get over some of the biases. You know,
39:14
Speaker 2: that's valuable work. So I think when you'd see that happen,
39:18
Speaker 2: you would more likely see from Palestinian communities to other
39:22
Speaker 2: Moslim communities open to the idea of wanting these kinds
39:26
Speaker 2: of stories and just seeing the human value today that
39:29
Speaker 2: would probably be not quite ready to go that far.
39:32
Speaker 2: So you know, I haven't taken this story overseas my
39:36
Speaker 2: US Canada one time, and I could do more in Canada.
39:40
Speaker 2: And those are funny right now, and they again I've
39:43
Speaker 2: been fortunate they've been well received and meet good people
39:46
Speaker 2: like you along the way.
39:47
Speaker 1: Well, for those of you just joining us the first time,
39:49
Speaker 1: you know I have had Marty on two other times
39:52
Speaker 1: and you can find that in a separate sub section
39:55
Speaker 1: of the podcast. But Marty, for those who haven't heard
39:57
Speaker 1: the story yet and haven't heard about you, you didn't
40:00
Speaker 1: leave a line.
40:01
Speaker 3: Of work to pursue this story, didn't you.
40:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, And this is i'll say, more of a
40:10
Speaker 2: less of a livelihood and occupation. Is it is more
40:12
Speaker 2: of a just a journey. People said, you're an author
40:15
Speaker 2: on a journey with a mission. But when I last
40:18
Speaker 2: truly worked for a living for twenty five plus years,
40:20
Speaker 2: I ran a management consulting business specializing in issues of
40:24
Speaker 2: leadership and organizational effectiveness, working with a variety of industries,
40:30
Speaker 2: especially managers and executives. Wrote books through that as well
40:34
Speaker 2: a few of them through the four Dummies series coaching
40:38
Speaker 2: and ventoring for dummies, communicating effectively for dummies, managing teams
40:42
Speaker 2: for dummies, and that had a good run self kind
40:45
Speaker 2: of fund what I do today when I ran the business.
40:48
Speaker 2: But I wound that down a few years ago as
40:51
Speaker 2: I then, you know, it was getting to be too
40:53
Speaker 2: much with this book, and so I figured, you know what,
40:56
Speaker 2: this is where I'm headed. This is my who knows
40:58
Speaker 2: if you it's not retired, And I guess, but so
41:01
Speaker 2: that's what I used to do.
41:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Marty, I would I would actually say
41:05
Speaker 1: this is your calling now from where I can.
41:09
Speaker 2: See, people have said that, so you're your perceptive, I guess.
41:12
Speaker 2: So as long as I can still have the energy
41:14
Speaker 2: to keep going. Again, the great positive receptions I get
41:18
Speaker 2: even hear from audiences, this would make a great movie.
41:21
Speaker 2: We hope to move in that direction and some one day,
41:24
Speaker 2: still hoping. Some things, little conversations starting to happen, but
41:28
Speaker 2: not certain yet what will come of it. But I
41:31
Speaker 2: can see, I know it would make a great movie
41:33
Speaker 2: because that's what I used to do. Interesting enough, it's
41:36
Speaker 2: kind of taken me full circle. My wife will often say,
41:38
Speaker 2: because early in my life, my very first career is
41:42
Speaker 2: I was a teacher. I was a history teacher, and
41:45
Speaker 2: in that that's what I'm doing today, educating in different
41:48
Speaker 2: ways with a wide variety of audiences of various ages.
41:52
Speaker 2: But this story helps make me the messenger to help
41:56
Speaker 2: do that teaching well.
41:57
Speaker 1: And you do it so emphatically, Marty, you do it
41:59
Speaker 1: so so emphatically.
42:00
Speaker 3: I have to believe that.
42:03
Speaker 1: Passion was just as much there for the school teaching
42:08
Speaker 1: day as it is now.
42:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, when I think back on it, and not
42:13
Speaker 2: that I was like that, because the story is probably
42:15
Speaker 2: bring something more out of me. And you're doing it
42:18
Speaker 2: every day. You can only do it so much to it.
42:20
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think, you know, people tell me you
42:22
Speaker 2: were a good teacher in those days. But I find
42:25
Speaker 2: that in particular I was doing something then because I
42:28
Speaker 2: go back away. So this is in the early eighties
42:31
Speaker 2: when the idea of Holocaust being taught in the schools
42:33
Speaker 2: was pretty limited, and I made sure with my history
42:37
Speaker 2: classes we did a whole unit on the Holocaust. Today
42:40
Speaker 2: I would be adding a lot more because I know
42:42
Speaker 2: more about this resistance and rescue side of it. But
42:46
Speaker 2: it went over very well every time I did teach
42:48
Speaker 2: on that and let alone anything else, but that was
42:51
Speaker 2: really that emphasis I often got in student evaluations of
42:55
Speaker 2: the year that was probably their most memorable unit. Thank
42:58
Speaker 2: you for teaching this, and again back to the power
43:00
Speaker 2: of education helping people break down prejudices and stereotypes. And
43:05
Speaker 2: that's the reason you do these things.
43:09
Speaker 1: Amazing work, amazing work. Are your parents still alive today?
43:15
Speaker 2: Unfortunately not No, they've been gone for a while, but
43:18
Speaker 2: still in memory. Then I was fortunate to have very.
43:22
Speaker 1: Good parents well, and I have to believe Marty that
43:25
Speaker 1: you have that they're looking down on you in spirit
43:29
Speaker 1: guiding you through this as well.
43:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I would think if they were around, they
43:33
Speaker 2: would appreciate this, my mother in particular, who was quite
43:36
Speaker 2: a lady. And in future we'll come back on another
43:39
Speaker 2: podcast down the road, when Woman of Valor comes out,
43:42
Speaker 2: we'll spend time exploring that story more, because that was
43:45
Speaker 2: an amazing woman that this story is about. That I
43:47
Speaker 2: was fortunate to have her family members support me and
43:51
Speaker 2: putting that book together.
43:52
Speaker 1: Well, tell us about that really quickly. What are their
43:54
Speaker 1: plans with that post COVID nineteen ye If.
43:58
Speaker 2: All goes well, because now the the GIF is because
44:01
Speaker 2: of the virus. Who knows the intent was that would
44:04
Speaker 2: going to come out towards the end of twenty twenty here,
44:07
Speaker 2: so it is since it's hitting the market very well
44:09
Speaker 2: by the start of twenty twenty one. Whether that holds
44:13
Speaker 2: true or not, I don't know, because things are kind
44:15
Speaker 2: of up in the air. But you know, the deal assigned.
44:17
Speaker 2: The publishers begun work on the you know, their side
44:20
Speaker 2: of it, the editing and producing it, so it will
44:23
Speaker 2: come out. It's just right now. Things have just created
44:26
Speaker 2: such an uncertainty of that, but that's the intent. It
44:29
Speaker 2: all goes well, and it all goes well because I've
44:32
Speaker 2: lined up I go to Arizona every winner. I've lined
44:34
Speaker 2: up speaking engagements there next winter, which will include both
44:37
Speaker 2: stories different places. So hope and I can do all
44:41
Speaker 2: of that certainly by then, if not sooner. So it
44:44
Speaker 2: all goes well. Yes, towards the end of this year,
44:48
Speaker 2: we'll talk Woman of Valor.
44:49
Speaker 1: And you know it's being a woman in Valor. What
44:51
Speaker 1: a great gift for Mother's Day twenty twenty one.
44:56
Speaker 2: Ah, there you go. You're you know, you're joining my
44:58
Speaker 2: marketing team here.
45:00
Speaker 1: Horrific well, Marty, thank you so much for coming on
45:03
Speaker 1: today and really spending this time with us.
45:07
Speaker 3: Keep telling the story.
45:08
Speaker 1: It's inspiring people everywhere, and not only just in New
45:12
Speaker 1: York City, the crossers of the world, but everywhere. And
45:15
Speaker 1: I'm very happy we get to have these conversations. And
45:18
Speaker 1: thanks for sharing your story each and every time on
45:22
Speaker 1: here and elsewhere.
45:23
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, no, you experienced firsthand what the power of
45:28
Speaker 2: good storytelling can do with the powerful story, and that's
45:31
Speaker 2: what I got. And thank you for coming that day.
45:34
Speaker 2: Obviously you understand as deeper as audiences do when they've
45:37
Speaker 2: experienced it. And hopefully it all goes well. I'll be
45:40
Speaker 2: back to New York, you know, and who knows another
45:42
Speaker 2: year or so, and things can when things can be normal,
45:45
Speaker 2: and you can travel and you can gather groups together,
45:48
Speaker 2: and you'll come in a future time and see me
45:51
Speaker 2: again in person. Is like you did so No, you care, Alex,
45:54
Speaker 2: And that's what this has been all about. People who care,
45:57
Speaker 2: They make the most positive difference.
46:00
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until this podcast I realized this isn't
46:05
Speaker 1: just a hobby of cracking open the microphone interviewing some
46:10
Speaker 1: awesome people. This is historical reference happening right before are
46:19
Speaker 1: all very eyes. And I hope to keep that vein
46:23
Speaker 1: of historical reference and oral history and documenting life and
46:29
Speaker 1: history as it happened as we move forward. So Marty,
46:34
Speaker 1: thank you for your kind words. And we unfortunately did
46:38
Speaker 1: not get to see each other again, but for the
46:41
Speaker 1: moments we were together, and that impactful day at the
46:46
Speaker 1: Museum of Jewish Heritage will live on forever, and your
46:51
Speaker 1: words will live on forever, and rightfully so, and rightfully so.
46:58
Speaker 1: Five years later, you are missed, Harry Brownstein. I miss
47:01
Speaker 1: our conversations, and I pray for your family and and
47:13
Speaker 1: pray for all the families that still still are reeling
47:18
Speaker 1: from the murderers at the hands of the Nazis. That
47:25
Speaker 1: pain never goes away. So you haven't yet light a candle.
47:30
Speaker 2: Or eighty.
47:34
Speaker 1: For every year that Holocaust, remember and stay has come
47:37
Speaker 1: around to remember the lives, the innocent lives taken from
47:45
Speaker 1: us as the Jewish population, and take him from the world,
47:51
Speaker 1: and take him from the world. And may the light
47:58
Speaker 1: that shines right by the Museum Jewish Heritage, known as
48:02
Speaker 1: the Statue of Liberty remind us tonight that we can
48:07
Speaker 1: be still that beacon of light for American Jews, for
48:13
Speaker 1: global Jews who feel persecuted, and who are persecuted, and
48:20
Speaker 1: as we've seen the terror of October seventh, still at
48:23
Speaker 1: risk of being killed for simply being Jewish. So may
48:28
Speaker 1: that light remind us we need to be a beacon
48:32
Speaker 1: for all those around the world that you are included,
48:38
Speaker 1: you are accepted, and we will not let anything happen.
48:44
Speaker 2: To you.
48:47
Speaker 1: Simply because you are Jewish. And that's how we can
48:53
Speaker 1: have one leg up on the fight against anti Semitism.
48:58
Speaker 1: Eighty years later,