Latest / Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce / 233. Exploring Homeopathy vs EMDR for Divorce Recovery: Britney’s Surprising Journey With Both

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233. Exploring Homeopathy vs EMDR for Divorce Recovery: Britney’s Surprising Journey With Both · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I am very excited to introduce you all to my dear friend, brittany Gardner, someone who influences your life regularly but you've never met.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Hi, love, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave and build back your confidence.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave and build back your confidence.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, dawn Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer and divorcee.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: So, quick intro Brittany and I met in 2018-ish at a conference and we started working together shortly thereafter.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: She helps create content, right, so she helps.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: She does so much of our social media now and she creates the publishes the blogs on the blog page.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: And, right, she's been such a huge part of building this brand, launching the podcast integral.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Right, we planned the initial podcast episode.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Like, you were such a huge part of the podcast launch.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Wow, that just like came forward for me as we're talking about it.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Yep, like you're, like you were like the doula of the podcast.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Wow, I didn't even wow, okay, so, yeah, you have profoundly influenced all these women's lives.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: You happen to be divorced and remarried, which just sort of makes you like even better fit on the team, right, but that's not actually why we're talking today.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: our time together like lifelifed, and we've had the opportunity for you to experience both EMDR and homeopathy and we're probably, dare I say, skeptical about both 100% Yep, as we were sort of talking about the growth that we're leaning into in the organization and planning to help teach people more about all these modalities and these things, it was, like all of a sudden very clear that you and I could have this conversation that would help people understand both modalities.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not wrong at all in saying I was skeptical Maybe a little less skeptical of EMDR.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I just didn't understand it, I just didn't know about it.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Like there are plenty of times in life you just don't know enough about something to actually say, yeah, let's wholeheartedly believe in that thing.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: You know, but homeopathy was not on my bucket list.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So you know, yeah, so today we're going to talk about both these modalities and you're courageous enough to come and talk about it, which I'm just so grateful for, right?
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: So let's just kick it off with, like tell us about, tell us your story.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Cool.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was divorced.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I got divorced when I was 25.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I have been remarried for 14 years.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I can do math Probably we'll never hear this.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: So that's fine and we're happily married.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: You know, that's not really a big part of the story story, but I do have that background and all the fun stuff that comes with.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: You know, having dealt with all that relationship stuff but um, your parents, divorce.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: That came up more than, oh, yeah, your own divorce, yeah, well, that was much more recent.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: My parents, that's true, are one of the uh famous 2020 split couples.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: They've been married for 40 years.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: So you that was fun being almost 40 and suddenly having your parents go through a separation and then divorce, especially since I didn't know anyone like me.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Everyone I knew who had divorced parents did it when they were, you know, eight or 15.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: And I just didn't have anyone to relate to being a fully grown adult with your own family suddenly doing that.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: That's such a good point.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was an interesting time.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: But, like you said, we'd known each other, We'd been working together off and on at that point for a little while and my friend passed in a rather abrupt way and I was not handling it well, in a rather abrupt way, and I was not handling it well and you, my therapist friend, very gracefully said you know, I'm here, you know if you need.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And I was like oh no, no, I need, but I'm not ready.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And then I was ready.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: And yeah.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and now of course I'm tearing up because you know things don't go away just because you've dealt with them, right?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and now of course I'm tearing up because you know, things don't go away just because you've dealt with them, right?
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: No, I think that's.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: The thing is, we're still human with emotions and grief is a super appropriate emotion.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for you, the grief was stuck.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, I couldn't move at all, like not even move on, like moving on was like a lofty goal, but just move would have been great anywhere like off my couch, for example, and so I didn't like step in and like become your therapist.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, I did, but but that's sort of the cool thing about EMDR is, we were able to do a handful of sessions and you were able to experience some, some pretty significant shifts.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know like it's not that I didn't believe in what you do I'd read your testimonials.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I was using your testimonials for copywriting, yeah yeah.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: So it's not like I didn't believe in what you do, it just it never occurred to me that just a handful of sessions with you would help me shift out of a really dark place.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Like, um, and even after I mean we had our first session and I was like, is that all this is like I just snap my fingers and I'm fine now, like that doesn't seem right, and it wasn't that like I don't want to gloss over that, but the amount of relief I felt after our first session was just immense.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I love that for you and it's not always that simple.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I did say that to you in the process.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: You processed it very quickly.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Results not necessarily typical, so let's put that disclaimer here.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I think one of the problems I'm going to go on a tangent here and media and social media is very often you'll see people like myself or influencers touting a result with a thing and not explaining when the results aren't typical.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: So you did process very, very quickly and you already knew, liked and trusted me.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I did know, liked and trusted you, which matters.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: So you got to skip a whole bunch of those steps, right.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And let's say this was not a complex trauma we were processing.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Right, it was a traumatic loss, but it wasn't like it was all wound up in, like these major childhood issues or decades of abuse, right.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So it was a little cleaner than some of the other things that do often take people a lot longer to work through in EMDR.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely yeah.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I experienced an event, and maybe there were a couple of days leading up to the event, right.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: But like it wasn't something that was in my formative years, but and I needed I don't want to say permission because that's the wrong word I hate when I can't come up with the right word but I almost needed permission to be able to move.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And you walking me through some of the things around there, outside of the actual, even EMDR, portion of things, was just so valuable and having those few sessions just helped me process what I had gone through.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: You know, having those few sessions just helped me process what I had gone through, the place I was in right now, the place I wanted to get back to, and maybe even move beyond in the future was for me.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: It felt very logical and since I err towards a strategic logic side, right like that made my life decisions there easy life decisions.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: They're easy.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: So then, as I'm sort of recalling it all right, we did end up talking about a number number of things sort of blurs together, like what we talk about just like as friends and what we were working on in the EMDR.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: But we did end up talking about a number of things, just in sort of taking your history right as I do, that ended up being the things we treated homeopathically down the road.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: So talk just a little bit like just give us a little entree into your homeopathy experience, yeah, so when did we start homeopathy?
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: A year ago Probably.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I think it could have even been longer, right?
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: No, because, honestly, when we did EMDR, I had you take a couple of things.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I did have you take a little sepia, right, because sepia is it doesn't.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: It's sluggish, it doesn't move, you burn out, right?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: So I had you take a little sepia.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: We tried sulfur.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: So we were dabbling in homeopathy when we did EMDR.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we were dabbling in a few of those things, um, just some stuff I was dealing, say when I was in high school, but um, like dealing with some of that stuff.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were dabbling um.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: But I feel like when I started taking it seriously when you said there we go sorry, dawn, but when I started taking it seriously, all right.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: So, um, the long story short is, I am a flower farmer today and I got stung by a yellow jacket, a bee, something on my my shoulder, like right on my right shoulder, and um, the next, I mean it hurt when it happened but like the next day I I couldn't move my arm, I couldn't.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: It was like stiff and it was, and I was like I don't feel like a sting should be this bad, like this feels wrong, but it was the first time I'd ever been stung in all my many years.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: So you know, what did I know Right, and it kind of went away a little bit.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: But then two weeks later I literally couldn't lift my arm and I ended up at the doctor earlier that week.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I've had a frozen shoulder and I didn't actually move my arm without significant pain for a long time after that and you were like all right, we're going to do a thing, britt, we're going to do it.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: And you were right, thank you.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I was wrong to wait first of all to even talk to you about it, but also to be a little skeptical because, oh, oh, you don't even know this.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness, tell me, I graduated from physical therapy this morning.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Do-do-do-.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Tell me, I graduated from physical therapy this month.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Do, do, do, do.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Congratulations.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: So good timing that we scheduled this today.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I love that, but yeah, it's been.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: What are we now at Eight months?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, eight months Since this day.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Almost nine since I got stung, Definitely eight months since I first started medically trying to figure out how to fix this stupid situation.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: And we've gone through.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: I think I tried to count in my head.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: I think we've tried like 12 different remedies before we finally started hitting the stuff, but that came from us talking through random stuff that in my opinion at the time was completely unrelated Unrelated, but obviously it's all related because we're complicated beings and all of ourselves talk and everything is that that's right, and and I you know your case, if I may call it that was particularly cool, uh, in how we found the breakthrough which we could talk about, uh, if you want to.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: But, um, and it's not necessarily that the remedies we tried before, like maybe they were right, maybe they were wrong, we're still going to like lean into that and find out.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: You know how I've been debating sulfur, like I swear you're sulfur, but it's like they couldn't penetrate until we hit the right thing at the right time and so remedy selection right.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: For the naysayers who say like this doesn't work, it's like it really is about.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: It's an art and a science.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it can be tricky sometimes to get that right remedy at the right time.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say this as a as a person who's still skeptical, not necessarily of homeopathy, but in general, I feel like I'm a skeptic.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have a healthy, healthy you know we, we doctors, practice medicine, right Practice.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting to me that we as a society allow doctors the grace to practice and try this and try that.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: But homeopathy, I tried that one time and it didn't work.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Um, or like, I mean, I still say that about acupuncture.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: I've tried it twice and it hasn't worked either time.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, yeah, it just isn't for me.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: And you know what, if I ever become desperate again, like over something, maybe I would try it again.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Right, but I am guilty of saying things like this.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I know other people around me are too.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, I tried that once, it doesn't work.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Now some people take it to an extreme.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I tried that work once, it did not work.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: They're all quacks.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I don't go that far.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I just think maybe it didn't work for me or whatnot.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it took us a lot of tries and I've watched my mom do that with her diabetes.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Right, she was on a medication for years.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: It worked great, and then it stopped working and the doctor's like, well, let's try this, no, that doesn't work.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Let's try this no, that doesn't work.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: And three or four rounds later maybe they find it.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: But that was six months of her life and we allow doctors with MD degrees to do that, but we have to allow other people to do that too.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Well, said Like I know how to talk to people like me.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Healthy skeptics Healthy skeptics.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, all right.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: So homeopathy works on layers that aren't always linear or logical.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: What was one change that you noticed that felt almost too subtle to explain but impossible to ignore.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, so previously mentioned drama with friends, right, I had this thing and it's not worth going into here, but I fired some of my friends.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: They weren't being good friends and I called them out on it because I'm blunt and I do things like that and it didn't go well and then everything blew up and I didn't handle it all that well.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: It's not fun feeling like the people you value so much don't value you at all and that's a bitter pill to swallow, that's the best way to really say it.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: But I still have to be around these people and, to be fair, pill to swallow Like that's the best way to really say it, but I still want to be around these people.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: And, to be fair, brittany, I think a lot of women listening right now are grateful to hear you saying all of that, like I think that's a path they're walking right now.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Right, so I think what you're saying probably resonates, yeah.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I had just had lunch with a friend today who she got divorced a few years ago and she lost a lot of her friends through the process and I was like she's like one of those friends that you're like friends with but you really only see once a year.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: So I was like I'm so sorry that happened to you.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I hate that that happened to you, but I think a lot of people are dealing with it, right.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I still had to see these people, unfortunately because of stuff, and I knew I was going to have to see them for an extended period of time, fairly regularly, regardless of the fact that I had pulled back from relationships that that weren't very good to me and that felt yuck, that felt gross, like I felt anxiety every time, like you had to be in the room with them and I asked you.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I was like I need something I can just take when I'm feeling anxiety.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Like I did use it like that once a week when I needed it and then I just stopped, like I didn't even remember to take it because I didn't feel like I needed it anymore.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And that was a big aha, win, right, Like that was one Another.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: I remember I actually texted you this one.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact timing on it, but I texted you and I was like I had to do a really hard thing today and I did it and I'm not drowning afterwards.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not feeling like I'm hungover afterwards, like hungover from like that Emotions know from like the situation.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Um, and that was actually, if I recall again, I don't remember the exact time I feel like that was around the time we started really trying to hit my shoulder with yeah, that was post arnica of all things like.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so so let me just tie some pieces together, if I may, please.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, so so britney's case was super interesting because and you can maybe explain some of this but she experienced this major injury in high school and major injury in high school and it resulted in surgeries and medications and x-rays and all these things, and so we tried it.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I think I even tried some really like esoteric remedies with you or we talked about it at least like x-ray, right, like there are remedies made.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: We did, we did try to x-ray, yeah.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: So long story short, I fractured my hip when I was in high school, just a stupid, freak accident.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: And you know, since 15-year-old females don't do that, I had to have like multiple MRIs and x-rays and, I think, a CAT scan and then two years later I developed a hernia, an inguinal her, and again, 17-year-old females don't get hernia Do that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: So they didn't know what to do.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: So I saw, like all the specialists, like I was still a virgin and I had like a gynecological visit you guys.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: It was horrible, Horrible.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: But I had to see all these different specialists and like so much imaging and I was sitting in anatomy and physiology, which I took as a junior, like that spring it was, after all, my like, it was after the surgery that found the hernia.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: But, um, I was sitting in there and we were talking about radiation.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I was like wait a second, because my textbook actually said how much you like pick up from each one of these things get exposed to I was like you guys, I'm radioactive literally.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: I was like 17 and radioactive.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that came up just anecdotally with you one time and you're like huh screenshots of like you know things and I was like that fits, that fits, that fits.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: We did, um, some kind of funky remedies there, and then we did arnica um, but the real breakthrough was opium I know, but arnica was the one, and so this is just a note right, because Arnica, like it's the remedy most people are familiar with because they can pick it up at Publix or whatever I don't know, kroger, you know, I don't know the muscle rub aisle or whatnot.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: So and that is homeopathic and it's for trauma, physical and mental, emotional, recent and remote.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: And so when you were dealing with the friend things and we did some high potency Arnica, probably we did a, we actually probably did a blend of potencies but did some high potency Arnica, that's when the emotional started shifting and that's when you went to the friend thing and had to do the hard thing and it didn't drown you.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: So it's like the Arnica broke the case, which is really fascinating.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: And then, yes, the shoulder thing, which was just something I saw you say on your socials.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I said and actually I just saw this on Mother's Day because I was looking through my old stories to find a specific picture I said something along the lines All right, so I had an injection in my shoulder back in November and I started PT in December and I was making good progress and then, all of a sudden, I wasn't.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden, my shoulder started to like try and refreeze, which was really annoying because I'd been working so hard, and it came out.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I have a very high pain tolerance, which I've known forever, but it came out that you know, if I didn't have such a high pain tolerance, maybe I wouldn't have been pushing my shoulder too hard with my PT exercises and re-injured it essentially.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And I posted something about that on my Instagram stories and you were like that's it.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: And there we were, and I think I had just shipped you a box and I was like now I have to ship another box.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: You did yeah, cause you had just that morning ship.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: But it's Okay.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: So here's something that's really interesting.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't know that this is going to land, because it's like in the weeds clinical brain, like clinician brain, right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So opium as a homeopathic remedy is useful for people who you know have injuries and pain issues, but also it's so useful for dissociation, which we see with complex trauma, right.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: And what's interesting is I use that remedy a lot with my trauma clients now as an opener before I do EMDR, because the results in EMDR are often better when we can peel back some of that dissociative stuff.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Then you can get into your feelings and you can actually work through some things.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: So it's just so interesting that now there's a handful of remedies I use for dissociation, depending on you know the presentation and what the person needs.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: But it's fascinating that you got such good results from EMDR while needing opium down the road.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: It's very interesting, or?
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: maybe I was just so primed for the EMDR at the time.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: We're like, we're going to do this, regardless of the fact that you haven't been opened.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah All this stuff was right on the surface.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's do an EMDR question.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: So, emdr, it sometimes, often, almost always, reveals memories that feel minor to you before you do EMDR, but hold major emotional weight once we get into the processing.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: So were there any?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I know the answer right, but were there any small memories that surprised you in their healing importance, however much you want to share about?
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: that.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: So when I was in fifth grade, my mom had a brain surgery.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: She had an abscess and bacterial meningitis and a staph infection all at the same time, which is like a really fun cocktail.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Last we had heard, which was forever ago, they still studied her case in medical conferences because it was supposed to be impossible and my family just gets real lucky with some of those impossibilities but they didn't know what was wrong.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: She had had a dental visit and had a horrible headache and over the weekend it got worse and she was just not good and they went to the dentist and then he sent it to an oral surgeon and he was like, yeah, not me, neurosurgeon.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: And he was like, cool, you're in the hospital now.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: And it just got worse.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: It took them a while to figure out what was going on and probably another case for radioactive Uh-huh, uh-huh, I had to guess.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: But during that time period this was.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: This all started at the beginning of May, so it was like right on through Mother's Day and you know like when you're in elementary school, what do you do at school the week before?
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Mother's.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Day, you get to slave over the Mother's Day card, right?
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: So I'm the oldest of three girls.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: My youngest sister was too young to even go to the hospital and it wouldn't have been, you know a thing.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: But Lindsay and I who's two years younger than me went, my parents' friends, we were staying with them, and they brought us to the hospital for Mother's Day and I was like so excited, thinking, you know, my card was going to magically heal my mom, because you know child's brains right.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Or maybe I didn't even think it was going to magically heal my mom because you know child's brains right.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Or maybe I didn't even think it was going to heal her.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I just thought she would actually like be happy to see it.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: But she was in a lot of pain and as an adult I can see exactly what happened.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: But she just tossed it aside and I was like really mad at her about it for a very long time and that came up in my view at the time very unexpectedly.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: But now now, like you know, a couple of years after we've done all this and I've done even more healing, I'm like, well, of course that came up.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Right, of course that came up.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's so interesting, right?
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Because if I had a dollar for every time, someone said to me like that doesn't bother me, I don't think of that, I don't even right.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And then when we get into either both and EMDR and or homeopathy, these things come forward and it's like holy crap, this has been.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like the cornerstone or like a major pivotal moment for someone.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: That gets internalized as a negative belief about self and then we live life from that place.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: It's like lurking in the shadows of our subconscious and you don't even realize it.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Well, I just think it's funny that my major breakthroughs in both our EMDR time together and our homeopathy time together have been on like little asides.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: You know one of them was so inconsequential to my life I didn't even tell you.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: You read it on my Instagram story.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: But you know these little things.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, have you ever been in?
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: The answer is yes, you've been in a conversation and you know, you start talking and then it kind of shifts a little bit.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, and you didn't know that that thing happened.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, and then this happened.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: And then oh and you didn't know that that thing happened.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, and then this happened.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: And then, oh, did you know, my husband does this?
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: And then this and you're like wait, how did we get here?
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: And I feel like it's the same thing with healing, you know.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you've already sort of referenced this, but as someone who's both strategic and intuitive we haven't mentioned this you are an artist.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: You are also a flower farmer, but you're an artist and you paint and the things that you create are just so beautiful and you don't just create in painting like you create with food and you create with so many things.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Right, but as someone who's both strategic and intuitive, how did either of these modalities EMDR or homeopathy challenge or affirm your relationship with control or surrender?
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not going to say I'm like the Uber type, a control freak, but I do veer in that direction.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: So not knowing what's going to happen next is not my favorite.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: You know, In terms of EMDR, I don't feel like I was as challenged with that.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: It was very clear cut what was going to happen.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: You're like okay, we're going to do this, we'll do this for a little bit and then we'll talk, and it was like I knew it was coming, even though, if I didn't understand the process, it was fine and it was all in a container, right, we had our hour together.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: All in a container, yeah, you know what I mean, so that didn't feel as much.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, did I have to trust that you knew what you were doing?
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean you're a professional Dawn.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I hope I trust what you're doing.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: You know like.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm sure people do come to you.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how that don't trust you, but like I guess that probably happens.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: It does happen actually, like I saw someone today who I've seen for years and she was not trusting me in the last three sessions and that's a dissociative part, that's part of complex trauma.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: That part was forward right and that part couldn't trust.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: So, yes, it happens.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, carry on.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: It's weird to me, although I don't know.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I definitely like one of my doctors for my shoulder.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I ended up not going back there because I didn't trust them.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: So, I guess people do go to people that they don't trust.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: But anyway, it was different with homeopathy, I guess, is the is the short answer.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I, as previously mentioned, was healthily skeptical about it.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Uh, my dad would still today be like, yeah, that's quack science.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Oh well, he said that about essential oils as well and the only thing that would stop one of his muscle spasms was that deep blue, so you know grain of salt here.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: But I mean that's like how I was raised.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: You know, like medical science is where you go to Western medical science, right, and the process of just taking a pellet under my tongue or taking a sip of water.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: It doesn't feel good like it should work, but I can still say that today I know it does.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Now I've changed my opinion, but it doesn't feel like it should.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: It feels very placebo-y yeah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And I love your experience with that because if it was placebo, you would have had the same result from all, however many remedies we've used.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: And that wasn't the case, yeah, so super interesting.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, even my seven-year know, my, my seven-year-old even, like right before he left, I was like, oh, go, go, take your sip, you know, because we're doing something with him right now.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: And he's like, why are we doing this again?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Like, we do this because it works, and that's all I can say.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I don't really know how to say it.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: So typically, when I get interested in something, I do the deep dive and all the things on how it works and all the stuff, and I'm just trusting you to do that for me, which is a huge moment of surrender.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: It's a big deal.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: It's a big deal.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: I would normally need to know all the things about it, like when I decided to do the dahlia farm, right, like girl, if you want to talk for 45 minutes on how dahlia genetics work, I mean I can do that, yeah, do I need to do that to grow pretty flowers?
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I do not, yeah, but that's kind of just how I operate and I've had to release some of that.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And then just, especially with all the different remedies we've done, and I'm like, well, I mean like maybe I felt like a little bit like this, but I don't, I don't really think anything changed.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Or I remember the first time we tried sulfur, you had told me as a warning, just because you knew I had stuff coming up.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: You're like you, you might feel a little explosive after this.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: And then, when I didn't feel explosive, I was like where's my explosion?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know Well, but then let's talk about what happened when you took the opium.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Because you were not, I was not your favorite person that day.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: No, that was a nasty, nasty crap load of like that was bad.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: It was bad.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: You got a terrible headache and you're like this is I mean, I couldn't hear you because you texted it, but I could hear you right, this is what we were looking for.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Like this you wanted to do this.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, horrible headache, right, you said it was like all night long, like kept you up, like it was so painful.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was a Sunday, if I recall, but I felt like the headache brewing Saturday, sunday morning, whatever it was, and by midday I was like, no, screw this, I need to take some ibuprofen.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: And I've been really trying to not mess with my gut and not take ibuprofen, and even like the anti-inflammatories I use for my shoulder are all herbal because I'm trying to heal all that.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: But this was not that moment.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: No, no, and that's right, and that level of pain isn't good for healing either.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, so I took the ibuprofen and you know it did start working, but it was.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: It was one of those workings where you still feel all the pressure in your head.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's not painful, but you know that headache is there, is there, and even the next morning I still felt like remnants of the pressure.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: It wasn't as intense, it was clearly waning, but I was like so apparently things needed to leave my body.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Things needed to leave.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was an exorcism.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: And this is the thing about both EMDR and homeopathy that are sometimes hard to warn people about, because what do you do on the front end and say like this could be one of the most uncomfortable things you ever experienced in your life, but I promise it'll be worth it.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: But that's sometimes the reality is right, it's.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: We have been sort of trained in Western medicine to take a pill and your symptoms disappear because we've suppressed them but we've cured or healed nothing.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: And that's not.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I don't mean that.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: So black and white, right, like my husband has two replaced hips, like thank God he wouldn't be able to walk without his replaced hips.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I'm not anti-medicine right at all at any stretch, but more often than not we medicate to suppress and we've gotten used to that.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: And then when healing actually involves expression and detox or metabolization of things that have been stuck for a very long time, it can be deeply uncomfortable, whether it's EMDR or homeopathy, either one.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and for me at least and I know this is going to be different for everybody I didn't have that experience with EMDR.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that feels better.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I remember you asking me like where do you feel that in your body?
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I don't feel it anymore.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: But there was no like pain getting rid of it.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, the healing is still painful, obviously.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Do you remember like a lot of times people have dreams or nightmares or I think I did no and then a lot of times people will not sleep well the night before their EMDR session because they know they're going to have to touch stuff that I think you were so ready to put the things down, though.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the case.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I think by the time I reached out, like before we did any of that, I was very much in the like.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: No, no, I am a strong and capable person.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I can fix this myself.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Preach, that's what everybody says yes, yes, it's not but yeah, I, I think you're right.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: I was so ready for it and then you know, I had those few sessions after my friends passing and and you helped, they helped.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: I was doing so much better that when I reached out to you the second time for for therapy, emdr, right like I already knew that what I was going to ask for was going to occur, I knew what to expect right like so I don't.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think I had any anxiety about that but again I was in a place that was very low both of those times that I reached out.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: So I was pretty desperate and with some of the homeopathy treatments it's been more like we're chipping away at things.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: There's been no like find me something for this and and, and you know, now I'm more comfortable reaching out to you and being like, hey, so this thing's happening, what.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Reaching out to you and being like, hey, so this thing's happening.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, what do we do?
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: But I'm not coming to you with for that from a place of deep dark, whatever right like because we already moved it exactly, exactly.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Yes, and even like my son that we're working through things with right now.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Right like you know, he's still being seen by, you know medical doctors as well for various things, and you know everything's being done in concert which I love that's like do we have bad moments with him?
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: oh yes, oh yes, there are bad moments, but but it's not like I'm expecting homeopathy to be a magic pill that just makes them all go away, although that is kind of what happened that's what happened with your shoulder right, but it's right's right, but it's layer by layer, and sometimes it's that magical one, and also, if I may mention, pans or pandas like complex kiddos.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Right, he is a very unique, complex kiddo, and there are so many more of those in the world these days.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: And you, that's a whole nother podcast episode Right, which we could do about, you know, mothers and complex kids and divorce, because that is its whole own episode Right.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: But those situations they do, they take longer, they're a little trickier to find.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: What is the magic thing, and it's going to be a little of this and a little of that and it's, it's a journey, yeah, yeah.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: So okay, now that you've had both of these experiences EMDR and homeopathy, like when you are having, let's say, a bad day these days the voles they're not going to eat your flowers this year, but or like whatever with your family, or anything, right, friends?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: What do you come back to now?
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: How do you see your life, your circumstances, bad days today, compared to before you did either of these modalities?
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Um, I mean, I think it'd be really fair to say I was coming at everything from a place of victimhood.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Um, in the past, and I'm I probably still lean that direction, but it's easier for me to come at things with more curiosity now.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Um, okay, I'm feeling like this.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: All right, what is leading up to this?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: What can I do about this?
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: What is in my control?
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: What is out of my control, which feels much more well adjusted than maybe I was a couple years ago?
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: But, um, but even like this morning, right, like I texted you and I was like all right, my dad's wife had her knee replaced yesterday.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: She's in a lot of pain.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: What can I bring over that I already have in the house, I think coming at it from a place of curiosity now, rather than this bad thing happened.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: What did I do wrong to cause this?
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Or woe is me.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Why does this stuff always happen to me?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: So I'm not saying I'm perfect and all of that of that, but I am able to separate.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: I remember the first time you asked me this is back in the EMDR, like early times, where do you feel that in your body?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: And I was like I don't understand the question like rephrase and you rephrase and I was like, yeah, no, try again.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Like because I was so separated from that awareness I didn't even know how to answer that question.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I was having emotional pain.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Where do I feel that in my body?
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: The emotional heart's fake?
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about?
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: I mean not fake.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Obviously I had emotions, but I didn't even know where to look inside myself for that for that, whatever, and now that that is like the first thing I think of.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, so where am I feeling this cool?
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: What can I do about it?
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in these situations with the friend group that I've had to walk through over this last year, I know when I'm feeling elevated.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: You know, like, if you've ever heard like the allergy, you know cup, and like like analogy, right, the, you know we're never completely not allergic to anything.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Sometimes our cup is empty, sometimes your cup is half full.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: So if you have an encounter or something you are allergic to, if your cup's already half full, you're going to have a bigger reaction than last time, and I've been able to apply that analogy to interacting with people that are hard like okay, I know, on fridays I'm already elevated oh, so you can plan your life differently, uh-huh yeah yeah, and and even, like you know, a couple of times when we were trying a few remedies, like okay, let's, let's do this, I'd be like, cool, I'll try it saturday.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Like uh-huh that, I'll try it Saturday.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Like that's right, that's right, yeah, and it wasn't like, oh, I have the weekend, I could try it.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: No, I have different stressors.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: On the weekend, I'm with my kids and my husband and we're trying to get projects done and we're trying to do all the things right.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: But I knew that certain stressors are different than other stressors and I was able to plan better.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: So all this nuance.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to ask you a big, messy, wide question that's less about you and is more about our lovely listeners, but I feel like one of the things that makes this conversation magical is you have the opportunity to speak on some of the things we talk about, sometimes internally right, like why?
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: What would you say to a woman who's considering working with us, you know, either in our personalized program or trying something they haven't tried before, or they're feeling a healthy dose of skepticism, and especially because there are so many coaches you can't see me, but I just did air quotes, which may have been maybe, I don't know.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Your voice, your voice right.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Well, what would you say to a woman out there where you know who's in those dark places you described right, and there are so many people making claims on the internet.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: What would you say to her?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I think what I would say to her is there's reason to be skeptical, absolutely, absolutely?
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Say to her is there's reason to be skeptical, absolutely, absolutely?
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: But if you're not doing well as is, it's time to try something different.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: And and for me, and and all three of the separate instances, situations, whatever you want to call that I've come to you with me like I need help here.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I was not handling it well on my own and maybe I thought if I waited long enough it would just even out by itself.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: But what's the harm to people around me?
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: During those time periods After my friend passed, I was carrying so much guilt and everything that I was not being a good mother.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: I basically stopped working, my business started tanking, that's, income for the family.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: All of these things were affected because I wouldn't deal with it and I thought I could handle it on my own.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And some of the things that you're dealing with in a divorce in particular are very different than some of the things I've been talking about here.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: But what is the same is I wasn't handling it and I did need outside help and I did need outside guidance, and in different ways, right like if we had tried just homeopathy that first time when I was dealing with my friend's passing.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know what would have happened like I different things at different times you you needed like some immediate stabilization, right, something that was going to move the needle quickly.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: But but how could I have known that without having the training?
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Or even if I were someone who has you know um therapy, or you know counseling or you know psychology training?
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: you can't always see.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: How can you do that to yourself?
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Right Like you don't really see yourself the same way people on the outside do, and you don't hear yourself.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: You don't hear yourself you know, like I've known for well, since I fractured my hip when I was 15, so you know 25 plus years I've known I have a much higher pain tolerance than the average person.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: It's it's so internalized to me it's just normal.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Why would I bring that up?
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: That's just a little quirk that I have.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: So like you need someone outside of you to kind of pick at those little things that really unravel all the other things.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: You know, it's that thread that you pick out on your sweater and then the whole dang thing comes under.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: But you need to do that to get to what's underlying.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: So that's that's what I would say to people um out there who, who, yes, are seeing oh, just another practitioner, or oh, just another coaching program.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: And to me I would say it's not just enough.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Having been on the inside of your team, for you know for a while, off and on, and then you know consistently for the last several years, I know how much value is in it.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I know what you bring to the table, I know what everyone around you brings to the table, and the people that are hiring you get so much more than they think they're actually getting.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: But from a personal perspective, I would say, if what you're doing right now isn't working and you aren't at the level that you want to be at, and you know that you can be a better person, more well-adjusted, more happy, more ready to be present with those that you love around you, do better at work, do better with your kids, all of that right Then you owe it to yourself to explore that more.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I love how clear it is to you about that self-reliance piece, right, and yeah, how clear it is to you about that self-reliance piece, right and and yeah, the downstream effects of that, because and I think for me that's always been about protecting vulnerability or control or shame like something about that right Like it just feels like such a I don't know to me, like a like failure for me, that right and and and it's not, but that is how it feels for me and I've always had to just take a deep breath and like jump off the cliff and be like, well, I guess we're gonna feel those feelings now yeah, and, if I may you know, we became much better friends, like through COVID, right, because everyone's relationships are on zoom so it doesn't actually matter that I'm across the country from you, right, like.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: But also that time period I was relying on myself a lot, just in that first year, 2020, we lost all special services for my son.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: My husband got laid off and then my parents separated and I was suddenly homeschooling not distance learning, actually legit homeschooling my older kid and I mean it blew up.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Friends I had had before were no longer friends because, you know, all of a sudden politics dictated how you can be friends.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: And I didn't have anyone, so I could only rely on myself and my husband, but like he was going through his own stuff you know all of that was just Wow, we did right.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: We had a lot of long talks.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: We did.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: And you know, like that I should be able to fix it myself thing may have always been ingrained in me, but I feel like those last couple of years, before you and I actually started working together on me not just on your business, but on me as a person had really drilled that in.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't just like, oh I, I should be able to fix this myself.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: It was more like I'm the only one I can trust to fix this myself.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: It was more like I'm the only one I can trust to fix this myself.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: And I had to get over that too.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Thank you so much for everything you shared, for just your openness, your vulnerability, your way of seeing it, like your skepticism.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you for your skepticism.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, you have no idea, it's like such a joy to know that we have a convert.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Converts.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, not a word, I love, but we'll go with it.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Anything else you want to add before we wrap up.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: No, I think we've covered it all, we did it right, yeah, we did it.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Dear Divorce Diary is a podcast by my coach John.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: You can find more at mycoachjohncom.