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When Life Changes Without Permission · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

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Hello and welcome to another episode of Chatting With The Experts where I
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speak with phenomenal women from Africa, from the Caribbean and in the diaspora.
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They share my mission, which is to educate, to empower and
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to encourage women globally, and that's what we are doing today.
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My guest will be joining me in a few minutes, and
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we are titling this episode
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When Life Changes Without Permission.
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This is a conversation for women at the intersection of disruption and
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possibility, and that's because my guest is the founder of Dream Differently.
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She's a transformational speaker, she's an author, and she's a coach who inspires
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women to reimagine what is possible after life's unexpected disruptions.
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She draws from her journey as a mother of a non-speaking autistic son, the
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end of a 22-year-old marriage, and more than three decades serving as
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a veteran and then a civil servant.
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And she wants women to know that one painful chapter doesn't mean that you
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don't get to write the whole story, or I should say your whole life story.
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With that, I welcome to Chatting With the Experts, Ronalda Sullivan.
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welcome, welcome.
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Thank you.
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Hi, Paula.
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I'm so happy to be here with you and your guests.
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I'm so happy that you said yes, and you notice my voice, I took deliberate
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breaks between some of the words in your bio because they hit home.
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Really and truly we need to dream differently because life
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makes us dream differently.
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And what I love best is one thing that you emphasized, that one painful
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chapter in our life doesn't stop us from writing the rest of our story, right?
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Yes, absolutely.
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I say that all the time to everybody.
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One painful chapter does not get to write the whole story.
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So what you cannot do is stop turning the pages.
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One painful chapter doesn't get to do it, but it does.
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It does and it will if you stop turning the pages.
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? I love it.
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You know a friend of mine many years ago, I met her, she was an older woman.
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Well, not that much older, but she was more mature than
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me, let me put it that way.
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And I remember talking with her and I said, "You have so much wisdom." And she
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said to me, "You know something, Paula?
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You're seeing me in this chapter of my life." And that stuck with
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me because she was so right.
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We meet people and we see them at a certain chapter of their life, but
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we don't know those earlier chapters.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely, we don't.
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The woman that you see before you today, she's here because she met
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all of those different chapters.
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When life changed, she had to dream differently, and then she had to
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dream differently again, and then she had to dream differently again.
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You touched on it a little bit in my biography when you talked about my
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son, non-speaking autism, the end of a marriage after 22 years, career changes.
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I'm a veteran, 30 plus, 33 decades.
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Mm.
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34 years plus as a civil servant.
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We already know the ebbs and flows that come with that working
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for the federal government.
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And so all of those changes and everything that I've had to navigate
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as a result of those changes is a culmination of me saying, "But I've had
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to dream differently every single time."
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Hmm.
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So when you talk about life doesn't ask for permission, there's a reason that you
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said that, doesn't ask for permission.
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It just happens, right?
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It absolutely does.
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It doesn't ask for its permission.
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It doesn't wait for us to say yes or no or I'm not ready.
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Mm-hmm.
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It doesn't wait for us to say, "Okay, fear, let me get over the fear first-
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and then I'm ready." My first experience that changed the whole trajectory of
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my life is 1995, I am, walking around looking like I swallowed a basketball.
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I'm carrying a baby boy.
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I'm happy to become this boy mom, so excited.
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We're living in the Netherlands at the time, so I'm loving living overseas, just
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living life, feeling like I'm living my absolute best life, absolutely, obviously.
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So when my son was born, life was great.
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I already had a daughter.
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I got a son now.
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Family is going and, and my family's growing.
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It's a beautiful experience.
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Life is great.
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We came back to the States and took my son to a routine doctor's appointment,
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and the doctor noticed something when he was seeing him rocking back and
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forth in the corner, and he said, "You know, how long has your son been
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rocking back and forth like this?"
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And I said, "Um, I don't know." He said, "Does he respond to his
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name when you call his name?" And I said, "I, yeah, I think so.
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Does…" does he answer?" And I said, "I, n- no, he doesn't."
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So with every question, I became more and more uncomfortable.
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It started causing me to question every parenting decision that I
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made, like did I miss something?
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What did I miss?
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So he takes his clipboard and he writes on a piece of paper, and he says, "Take, take
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this sheet of paper. I need you to take it to Bethesda Naval Hospital, 'cause I need
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you to have your son evaluated." I did.
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I took my son to Bethesda.
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He was evaluated by occupational therapists and a speech therapist and a
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physical therapist, and at the end of all of those evaluations, we were summonsed
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to a room, and the doctors sitting around the table in all of these white
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coats causing me to fear everything.
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Mm. What are they gonna tell me?
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What did they find?
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what did they see?
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And one of the doctors looked at me and he said, um, "I think I know what's
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wrong." And I said, "Well, what is it?
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You know, what's, what is it?" He said, I think your son has autism."
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And I said, "Autism?
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What is autism?"
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Doc, I don't even care.
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I just need you to tell me how to make him talk, 'cause I just need him to talk.
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I need him to talk because I need to hear that he is okay.
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I need him to hear, I need to know if he's being bullied in school.
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I need to know if, he's hungry, if he's in pain.
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I need to know what he's thinking.
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I wanna hear how his day is.
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So you just tell me how we get him to talk.
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I don't even care about autism."
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And he looked at me, and these four words changed everything.
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He said, "He may never talk."
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And I didn't know what to do with that.
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Fear grabbed me by the throat, and when I tell you I couldn't even
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imagine that that would be the reality.
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Like, he's never gonna communicate with words?
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I'm never gonna hear him say what I've been waiting to hear him say, "I love you,
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Mommy." Like, I'm not gonna hear that?
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Like, so when I tell you you can't stop dreaming, you just
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have to dream differently.
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The dreams have to look different.
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And then you know, we've navigated, my son is doing well.
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He is living a beautiful life.
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Love that.
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He lives on his own.
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He's got roommates.
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He's living a beautiful life.
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The dream looks different, but you don't stop dreaming.
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I love that you told us the beginning, and now you're telling us where he is now.
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Yes.
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Because those four words that you interjected in the
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middle, "He will never talk"-
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Yes
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just made my heart sink, like- Mm … oh, my gosh.
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Absolutely.
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So what happened?
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Because just doing the math, if you were pregnant in 1995, that
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means that's, like, 31 years ago.
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Yes, he'll be 31 this, he'll be 31 in December.
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Yes, 31 years ago.
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And to see him now and all of the fear in between then and now
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that I had to navigate, fear of letting him be out on his own.
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I had to realize that if I didn't give him the freedom to live his
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life, I wouldn't be free to live mine.
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I wouldn't be free to tell other women that just because the dream looks
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different doesn't mean you stop dreaming.
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Married for 22 years, thought I'd married my Prince Charming, had
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a beautiful fairy tale going, at least I thought, like we all do.
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And then 22 years later, I find myself, it's this, this
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relationship is no longer serving me.
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Now what do I do?
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And but I had daughters
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And having daughters as a mother, it's your responsibility.
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It is your responsibility to set the very best example for your daughters
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so that later in life they make wise choices about relationships.
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Yes
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… and then they give themselves permission to do whatever it is so that their dream
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can look different, but it doesn't change.
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You don't stop dreaming
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I love, again, word, the choice of word.
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I love the fact that you said you gave your daughters a chance to know
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that their dreams can look different, but it doesn't have to change.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And it doesn't define, just because it looks different
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doesn't mean it can't be good.
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It doesn't mean that you can't be happy, because ultimately
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God's got the final say.
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Amen to that.
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Ultimately, I saw my life one way.
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God saw my life another way.
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And my son doesn't communicate with words, but it doesn't mean
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that I don't tell the story.
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See?
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So you're his voice.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And he's happy.
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And proud of it.
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And proud of it.
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and I tell people all the time, you know, I used to pray that the Lord
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would just let me hear, "Mommy, I love you." I just needed to hear that.
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That was just like, God, I don't know what I'm gonna do if I don't hear that.
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Like, I need to hear that.
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And every time I see my son, the way his face lights up- Aw … the
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way he opens up his arms to me.
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Uh-huh.
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The Lord showed me, you don't have to hear those words.
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You don't have to hear those words.
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He is speaking.
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He is communicating.
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You defined communication with words, not me
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In other words, it's just different
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it's just different.
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It's just different.
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And you know, Ronalda, I'm just thinking, there are lots of people
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who have children, and if, since we are talking about your son.
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I know lots of women with sons who can talk.
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Mm-hmm.
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Who don't say, "Mommy, I love you."
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Mm-hmm.
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Who don't even, they see their moms, and they don't hug them.
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They look at them with disdain for whatever reason.
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Absolutely.
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So, you know, being, I was talking about that with another
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guest of mine, just being content sometimes with what you have.
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Nothing's perfect in this world.
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Absolutely.
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But being content.
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Yes.
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Being content with different.
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With different, yes.
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Being content.
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But people don't, but I look at mothers and because it's been their norm, they
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have no idea how very blessed, and the sons don't have any idea as well.
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Yes.
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And, and I've seen, and I look at families, I look at all of these
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other women like me, other mothers like me who have had to, you know,
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their lives are different now.
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You know, they're in a sandwich generation.
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You know?
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Yes.
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They've become caregivers.
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They're caregiving to their parents, and they're caregiving to their children.
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Life looks very different.
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Like, all of the things that I call life disruptions.
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I never would have been able to introduce myself to you, Paula, if I
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had not experienced that disruption.
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Absolutely.
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It just looks different.
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It just looks very different, but it still can be the very best life.
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You just have to embrace that different is okay.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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Yep.
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So I know that, it's something we spoke about offline, which is
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the hardest thing that we lose is in this situation is ourselves.
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Let's talk about that with the audience.
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Tell them what you mean.
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Well, the, well, I truly believe that what happens when you're navigating
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disruption and life changes, we automatically focus on what we lost.
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We automatically focus on maybe the marriage that didn't go, the fairy
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tale that didn't end the way we wanted it to, the career that's different.
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Or not even the fairy tale, maybe it's just a relationship.
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And fear can cause us to lose connection with ourselves because
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we're so focused on what didn't work.
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We're so focused on, "But I thought my life would look this way."
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Oh, gosh, yeah.
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And then a lot of women, they look really, really good on the outside, but inside
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because everything has changed, she doesn't even feel like herself anymore.
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But she doesn't even know what to do with that.
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She doesn't even realize that all of that change ultimately means you
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can choose yourself so that you can get back to peace, so that you can
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actually live the life that you love.
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Because whenever I was navigating all of that disruption, I was so
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focused on everything and everybody.
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What is gonna happen when my son can't speak?
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What does that mean?
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What does that mean for him?
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Well, ultimately, he has to get to a place, you have to make sure that he
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does, so that you can get to a place where you can live your best life.
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You can be so focused on the disruption that you lose sight of your ultimate
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goals, and our ultimate goal, I believe, should be living our best
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life and living a life of peace.
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And fear can rob you of that if you're so focused on the disruption.
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Fear can actually have you by the throat if you are not careful.
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It can keep you stuck because fear, when I tell you the fear of
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is he gonna be able to be okay?
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Will he be able to live a fulfilled life?
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Will I be able to live a fulfilled life?
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Will I not, what will I not be able to do some of the things that I
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wanna do because I'm so consumed with my dream looking different?
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And so I think what my message to women is, don't lose yourself in disruption.
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Don't lose yourself in disruption.
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Don't lose yourself in disruption, because disruption can cause you
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to be so fearful, and fear can cause you to be caught in a fog.
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Mm.
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The fog of fear, and let me just give you this visual, because
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we already, we all know what it looks like when you're in a fog.
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Mm.
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When you're driving down the street, you can't really see.
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Fog is there, you don't know.
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Fear can cause you to not be able to see your way through, because
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all you're thinking about is I'm so focused on the fear of my situation.
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I can't even imagine it being better.
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I can't even imagine getting on the other side of this disruption.
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And sometimes fear talks louder than your own voice.
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So ladies, don't lose yourself in the fear.
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Which brings us back to almost like a circle, you know?
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We talked about life doesn't ask for permission.
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And now we're talking about don't lose yourself in disruption,
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don't lose yourself in the fear.
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And then seeing that, you know, the disruption is really part of life.
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I mean, so now it's giving yourself permission to begin afresh.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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And that's what you do.
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Yes, and I think the question you have to ask whenever you're
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preparing yourself to give yourself permission is, what's possible now?
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Yes.
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Like, what can my life look like now?
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Now that I know what I need to do, what is possible with my life?
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What does creating the very best life for myself look like?
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I had to ask myself that.
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Okay, so now you're navigating this disruption.
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You know your son may never talk.
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He may have to live his life communicating without words.
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So now what?
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Because ultimately what you want is you want him to be able to live his
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best life so that you can live yours.
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So what does that look like?
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It looks like feeling the fear of everything, and then doing it anyway.
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Say that again, because I heard somebody talk about that a few days ago.
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Yes, it means feeling the fear.
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I had to feel the fear of everything that I mentioned.
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He may never talk.
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He may never say, "Mommy, I love you."
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I may never hear him say, "I'm in pain." I may never know that he's being bullied.
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All of those things that suffocated me, all of those things that caused so much
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fear, I had to feel all of that fear, sit in it, give myself permission to
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feel my feelings in it, sadness, grief, anger, frustration, all of the things.
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I had to give myself permission to do that, feel it, sit in it, 'cause it
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comes in waves like everything does.
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But then at the end, okay, so now what does it look like for
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you to create his best life?
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What do you need to do now to help him create his best life so that you
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can live yours in a life of peace?
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Well, that means that I'm gonna have to make sure that he can live
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a life of freedom, live a life of independence because we all
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know that most 30-year-olds, they don't wanna live with their mama.
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They wanna live a life of freedom, and they wanna be
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able to do what they wanna do.
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And I had to think about that post-diagnosis in preparation for
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him being able to live his best life.
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What does that mean for me?
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I've gotta prepare him.
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I gotta work through all of that fear that may have me by the throat and do
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whatever's necessary so that he can live his best life, whatever that means.
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And that's for any woman.
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You know, you have to feel the fear of a relationship is ending.
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Your 22-year marriage ends like mine did.
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You have to feel the fear of, okay, so now I gotta navigate life.
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Now I gotta get, I have to navigate single parenthood.
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I gotta navigate all of these things that are fearful, but
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I need to get to my best life.
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And that is the life of peace and fulfillment so that my
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daughters win, so that my son wins, and ultimately then I win.
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It's just differently
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Than you imagined
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Absolutely.
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And as I said that, what came to mind was how are we so sure that what we
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imagined was what was ever meant to be?
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You know?
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That part.
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That part.
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we, but we don't know.
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We don't know.
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And that's the thing.
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We have no idea.
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And then I think, if we're being real, if God showed us, we would say, "No,
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no, no, no, no, God, I'll pass. No, no, no. can you get somebody else?"
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Yeah
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" To not that for me.
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I want this door, not that door."
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Erase that one, yep.
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You're so right, Ronalda.
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So right.
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The grass is always greener.
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We always want something else
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Absolutely we do.
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We always think it's always better over there
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It's always better somewhere else.
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Oh, boy.
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If only we knew.
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Wow.
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So if you don't mind sharing-
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You mentioned that your son lives a happy, fruitful life.
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Yes.
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Ah.
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We know that you said he's non-speaking.
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Are there any resources you can share with, without, I mean, of
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course revealing where he is, but any resources that you can share with
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other moms or any other parents who are probably in the same situation?
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It may not be a son, but a non-speaking autistic child.
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Well, what I will say is because every state is different.
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Mm-hmm.
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And everywhere is different, and I'm not sure, where all your listeners
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are listening in from, but, what I will say is do your research first…
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research
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… on autism.
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Because once you do your research about autism, then based on autism and based
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on what you might see in your son or daughter, what he may or may not be
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doing, if you suspect it or whatever, um, what I will say is do your research.
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Learn exactly what autism is, and then the next thing that I would do is is
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don't move forward with doing anything else until you actually have talked
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to the medical professionals and get a diagnosis, because that is the first
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key to getting any type of assistance.
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So what I would tell anyone who's listening, any mom who may have heard this
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or may suspect, first do your research.
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Learn as much as you can about autism.
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Contact your medical professional and get a diagnosis, because the
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diagnosis will open up the doors to your resources, and without a formal
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diagnosis, most states won't give any assistance until you actually have that.
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So I will offer research and get that diagnosis, because those are the first
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two steps, and do that as soon as you may suspect that something is not right.
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Moms know.
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You feel it.
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Something's not right, I don't know what it is, and it may not be autism.
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It could be something else.
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But if you feel it, listen to yourself.
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' Cause it's your child at the end of the day.
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It's your child.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's your child at the end of the day.
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Yeah.
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And you, you know your child.
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Yes.
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Yes
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Ronalda, thank you so much for sharing.
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Absolutely.
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It's been my pleasure.
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And if someone listening in later would like to get in touch with you,
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and of course those who are in the audience who are taking down notes,
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if they'd like to get in touch with you later, how can they do that?
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I am on all socials, Ronalda Sullivan.
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I'm on Instagram, @ronaldasullivan.
25:03
I am on Facebook at Ronalda Sullivan.
25:03
I'm on LinkedIn as
25:03
Ronalda
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Sullivan, and I've just recently stepped out there on TikTok,
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if you can believe that.
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I know, I stretched myself.
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So DreamDifferently1 on TikTok, but everything else is Ronalda Sullivan.
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So please feel free to reach out, connect with me.
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I'm always putting content out there about how you can learn how to dream
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differently, because I encourage women, and I want them to be empowered, that
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no matter what life looks like today, you can always dream differently.
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You can always reimagine.
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And I will also share that, I have a 30-day devotional journal, and it is
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faith-based, and it's called Reimagine: Transform Your Tomorrow, and it is 30
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days of you diving deep about navigating change and what that actually looks like.
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So this journal is available on Amazon.
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And again, take the journey, because dreaming differently is the ultimate
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answer to you living your best life.
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Don't let that fear, don't let that fear stop you.
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Ladies, I promise you every week to bring you the best, and
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she hasn't disappointed you.
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Thank you.
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She has not.
26:33
And for those of you listening in on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or anywhere
26:39
else you listen to your podcasts, and those viewing on YouTube, if you'd
26:44
like to be a guest just as she has been, reach out to me on my website,
26:48
which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
26:51
I'm on LinkedIn as Paula Okonneh.
26:53
I have my business page there, which is Chatting with the Experts.
26:57
I'm also on Facebook.
26:59
My business page there is Chatting with the Experts.
27:03
And we are on YouTube.
27:07
This episode will be on YouTube.
27:09
You can subscribe to our YouTube channel, and you'll be able to view this particular
27:14
episode there, as well as all the previous episodes of phenomenal women from Africa,
27:21
from the Caribbean, and in the diaspora.
27:24
Thank you again, Ronalda.
27:27
Thank you … for being my guest.
27:28
Thank you.
27:28
Thank you so much, Paula, for having me.
27:30
I'm so grateful to be here.
27:31
And if I could just leave the women, your listeners, with one
27:34
last thing, I will say this.
27:36
Just remember, one painful chapter, it doesn't get to write the whole story
27:41
unless you stop turning the pages.
27:43
I love it.
27:45
Unless you stop turning the pages.
27:49
So let's turn the pages, and now we'll open up the floor to all who joined us so
27:54
that they can turn even more pages, right?
27:56
Absolutely.
27:57
It's talking to you.
27:58
Absolutely.
27:59
Thank you.