Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Urgent search for missing autistic child! Trial starts in case of teen burned alive

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Urgent search for missing autistic child! Trial starts in case of teen burned alive · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Thank you all for your
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Speaker 1: love and support, and I just want to say, I
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Speaker 1: want my baby back in my arms. The desperate cries
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Speaker 1: of a mother and for this one moment, as painful
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Speaker 1: as it is, let yourself go there the mother of
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Speaker 1: a six year old autistic boy. They need your help
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Speaker 1: and prayers. Tipline seven oh four eight six nine one
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Speaker 1: zero seven five. There is a ten thousand dollar reward
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Speaker 1: seven oh four eight six nine one zero seven five.
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Speaker 1: Of course, I'm talking about a beautiful, beautiful little boy
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Speaker 1: that goes missing in North Carolina in the woods along
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Speaker 1: with his father. The fact that he is non verbal
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Speaker 1: and autistic is making is even more difficult for law
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Speaker 1: enforcement and FBI that have now been called to the scene.
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Speaker 1: In fact, police have gone to the measure of playing
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Speaker 1: out recordings of his mother and father calling out his
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Speaker 1: name Maddox, Maddox, hoping to lure the boy out of
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Speaker 1: the woods, the very dense woods. The search has been
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Speaker 1: going on. Joining me right now, Crime Stories, Alan Duke, Alan,
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Speaker 1: what happened? This little boy was walking in the park
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Speaker 1: with his dad. It's something that Ian Rich, the father, says,
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Speaker 1: they do all the time. They were walking around the
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Speaker 1: lake in this two hundred and sixty acre park when
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Speaker 1: the boy ran ahead, which is not unusual, but he
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Speaker 1: kept running, and despite the father calling for him, he
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Speaker 1: kept running until he was out of sight. The father then,
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Speaker 1: of course, as you could understand, panicked, and the search began.
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Speaker 1: Alan listen. I know it may sound far fetched to
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Speaker 1: a lot of people, but I've taken David and Lucy
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Speaker 1: on hikes and they do run ahead of me, and
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Speaker 1: they do circle to being and I get so nervous
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Speaker 1: and anxious. I start running and I catch up with him,
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Speaker 1: and I hate to say, don't run, don't have fun,
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Speaker 1: slow down. I hate to be that mom, so I
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Speaker 1: try to just keep up with him and keep them
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Speaker 1: in sight. The father is eaten up with guilt. Right now.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to the dad. Just this morning with
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Speaker 1: our friends at g m A W him got so
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Speaker 1: far away from me. I could see him until at
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Speaker 1: a certain point he got out of my my view.
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Speaker 1: And that's whenever I never seen him again. Everybody looks
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Speaker 1: at you as a monster, and I've dreaded that. Since
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Speaker 1: the moment it's happened, it's been hard asleep. I feel,
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Speaker 1: I feel guilty because I can go into a house
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Speaker 1: laid down on a bed and my little boy why
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Speaker 1: be out there in the woods. And the FBI has
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Speaker 1: clearly said stop posting things all on line that are
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Speaker 1: detouring their investigation, comparing this to the Chris Watt's case,
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Speaker 1: the father that we know murdered his wife. They're saying,
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Speaker 1: please stop that that is only detracting from their search.
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Speaker 1: And I find that very persuasive coming from the FBI.
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Speaker 1: You don't hear that every day from the FBI. Now,
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Speaker 1: I want you to brace yourself, take a listen to mommy.
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Speaker 1: I just want to thank each and every person who
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Speaker 1: has reached out to me about Maddox wanting to help
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Speaker 1: find him. I would appreciate it if you were at
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Speaker 1: the park Saturday and saw Maddox. So please urgently, please
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Speaker 1: call the tip line. Please continue praying for him, because
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Speaker 1: I just want my baby home. Please, whatever you can do.
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Speaker 1: Maddox is my whole world and my reason from living.
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Speaker 1: He's Mama's boy. Maddox loves the park, He loves bouncy balls,
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Speaker 1: and he loves his teddy beer. His smile so contagious
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Speaker 1: and his laughter is so precious. If you think that
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Speaker 1: you have seen Maddox, please reach out to police. Thank
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Speaker 1: you all for your love and support. And I just
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Speaker 1: want to say, I want my baby back in my arms.
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Speaker 1: You know, Alan, you're a father and I'm a mother,
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Speaker 1: and hearing that mother Maddox his mom speaking is I
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Speaker 1: can hardly stand to even hear it because I'm thinking
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Speaker 1: my own children if one of them were lost. For
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Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, we're talking about a
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Speaker 1: beautiful six year old boy who was non verbal and autistic,
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Speaker 1: who went running ahead of his dad in a North
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Speaker 1: Carolina in a part the ranking lake park like they
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Speaker 1: always do, and the dad was calling slow down, slow down,
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Speaker 1: hold on, hold on. The boy kept running and then
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Speaker 1: when the dad got around the band, he didn't see
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Speaker 1: the boy and kept looking and looking and looking for
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Speaker 1: him and started panicking. And now how long has it been,
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Speaker 1: Alan since Mannox disappeared. It was from this weekend and
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Speaker 1: the search is huge, sixty acre park. They've expanded it
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Speaker 1: beyond that. By the way, this is what they're really
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Speaker 1: looking for. In particular, if you were at that park
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Speaker 1: that day, they saw a professional photographer that they want
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Speaker 1: to talk to. Plus they saw a jogger that they've
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Speaker 1: not reached. If you know who that might be, called
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Speaker 1: the police, and we do have a tipline. Please please
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Speaker 1: help us find this boy. You heard his mother and
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Speaker 1: father tipline seven zero four eight six nine one zero
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Speaker 1: seven five. Go to crime online dot com see Maddox's
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Speaker 1: picture find out more about the case. We're doing everything
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Speaker 1: and anything we can do to bring the boy home. Allen,
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Speaker 1: thank you for reporting, but I've got to tell you,
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Speaker 1: just hearing the story and thinking about it is literally
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Speaker 1: breaking my heart. For those of you that may know anything,
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Speaker 1: please call the tip line seven oh four eight, And
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Speaker 1: for the rest of us, let's pray that Maddox will
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Speaker 1: soon be back in his mother's arms, alive and well.
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Speaker 1: A beautiful teen girl, a Mississippi cheerleader the apple of
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Speaker 1: her appearance, I burned alive. Jessica Chambers spotted by a
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Speaker 1: motorist walking limping down the side of the street, totally
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Speaker 1: and completely burned. Only the souls of her feet were unscathed.
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Speaker 1: In fact, I recall it like it was yesterday. It
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Speaker 1: was called death by lighter fluid at first, because the
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Speaker 1: inside of her mouth, at her throat going down into
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Speaker 1: her lungs was burned black, covered with soot, like someone
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Speaker 1: had forced lighter fluid down her mouth into her throat
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Speaker 1: and set her on fire, even on the inside. What
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Speaker 1: a horrific way for for someone to die, which less
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Speaker 1: a teen girl. I Nancy Grace. This is crime stories
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Speaker 1: and you better know it. I want justice. Take a
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Speaker 1: listen to this. While the murder trial for nineteen year
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Speaker 1: old Jessica Chambers was approaching and nearly one year ago,
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Speaker 1: the confusion for nearly everyone involved was also quickly coming
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Speaker 1: to a boiling point. He might remember back in the
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Speaker 1: Chambers was found burned alive on a back road in
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Speaker 1: Penola County, Mississippi, and Quentin Talas was charged and her
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Speaker 1: dadly thereafter nearly three years had passed and tell us
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Speaker 1: to trial in Batesville, Mississippi, But by the end of
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Speaker 1: the actual trial a mistrial had been declared. This after
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Speaker 1: the jury failed to reach a unanimous verdict. You might
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Speaker 1: remember inside the courthouse last October, we told you jurors
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Speaker 1: on the case initially returned to the courtroom on judgment
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Speaker 1: day to announce a verdict, but when asked if all
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Speaker 1: jurors were in agreement, the jury foreman told the judge no,
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Speaker 1: and that's when they were sent back to continue deliberations.
8:35
Speaker 1: About twenty minutes later, the jury came back a second
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Speaker 1: time and said a verdict had been reached. It was
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Speaker 1: initially announced that couldn't tell us was found not guilty,
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Speaker 1: but the jurors did not agree on that verdict when
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Speaker 1: individually asked by the judge. Then, after the judge sent
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Speaker 1: the jury back two more times to deliberate, they finally
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Speaker 1: returned before the end of the day. When they were
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Speaker 1: in the judge that a unanimous decision regarding Quinn tells
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Speaker 1: his charges could not be made, resulting in a mistrial.
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Speaker 1: That's my friends at Fox. Scott maddis joining me right now,
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Speaker 1: our investigative reporters, Shane Dieter. Shane, let's start at the beginning.
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Speaker 1: Cops were called to the scene after a motorist spots
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Speaker 1: this teen girl limping along the side of the road
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Speaker 1: against all odds. I mean, the reality is she should
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Speaker 1: have been dead in that car because the car was
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Speaker 1: burned to a crisp. What do we know, Shane, Let's
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Speaker 1: go back to the first moment when first responders arrived
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Speaker 1: that they responded out there, they found Jessica severely burned,
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Speaker 1: barely alive. Some first responders went to render aid. There.
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Speaker 1: There was testimony in the first trial that she whisper
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Speaker 1: whispered someone name, and that has been the one of
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Speaker 1: the biggest contentions in this trial from the beginning. Or
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Speaker 1: in this case, UM the d a John Champion saying
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Speaker 1: that she whispered Eric. Others are saying that she whispered
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Speaker 1: a different name, and uh, I don't hold on right there?
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Speaker 1: How to Dr Jeanne gorniatt joined me. Fulton County Medical Examiner.
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Speaker 1: Dr Gornia, thank you so much for being with us.
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Speaker 1: The man that we believe is responsible for the murder
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Speaker 1: of Jessica Chambers is a man named Quentin tell Us.
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Speaker 1: How do they know with her throat burned and covered
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Speaker 1: in soot, her mouth black on the inside, she died.
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Speaker 1: She could hardly speak, She was hardly alive. How do
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Speaker 1: we know she wasn't trying to say tell Us not Eric.
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Speaker 1: I mean, she couldn't even speak. Dr Gordiat, you're absolutely
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Speaker 1: right to um. When someone has that severe of thermal
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Speaker 1: injuries within their airway, breathing, get alone speaking. I can
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Speaker 1: only imagine how difficult that would that would be um.
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Speaker 1: But I have had a case a few years ago
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Speaker 1: where kind of similar lady was set on fire and
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Speaker 1: she was able to tell the person who found her
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Speaker 1: and say, say a name. So as unbelievable as it is,
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Speaker 1: I really truly believe that people's will to live um
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Speaker 1: and to tell their story. UM. We try to say,
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Speaker 1: as frendic pepalg is that we give a voice to
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Speaker 1: the voice list, but sometimes they tell their stories, unfortunately
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Speaker 1: before they die. But like you're saying, we don't know
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Speaker 1: what they said, we're only um speculating or that's what
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Speaker 1: we heard, But do we really know that's what she said?
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Speaker 1: You know? With me? In addition to Dr Jane Gorni
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Speaker 1: att Holton County Medical Examer's Office, it's psychologists out of
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Speaker 1: New York. Lauren Howard, Jeven, I'll judge and lawyer, founder
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Speaker 1: of child crime watch dot com. Ashley Wilcot, renowned death investigator,
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, the professor forensics at Jacksonville State University,
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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet and reporting today on
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Speaker 1: Jessica Chambers is Shane die Diert. You know Joseph's got Morgan.
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Speaker 1: I know we all remember when oh J. Simpson, Oriental
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Speaker 1: James Simpson got in front of the dream. This was
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Speaker 1: the state's fault totally. And I don't like throwing a
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Speaker 1: stone of the state. But you never ever ever perform
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Speaker 1: a demonstration that you have not practiced. And the main
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Speaker 1: thing you don't do is hand your evidence over to
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Speaker 1: the one person most likely to manipulate it, the defendant.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember Joe's got Morgan when O. J. Simpson
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Speaker 1: held up the glove and pretended it didn't fit. Remember that?
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Speaker 1: And then all the focus took was off, all the
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Speaker 1: blood evidence, the circumstantial evidence, the direct evidence was off
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Speaker 1: that his suicide attempt, that running from police, who was
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Speaker 1: from police? If I didn't do it, none of that mattered,
13:03
Speaker 1: because if it didn't fit, they wouldn't quit. And in
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Speaker 1: this case, there is a mountain of evidence, including cell records,
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Speaker 1: that could tell us with her right up until the
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Speaker 1: time she's killed. And everybody's focused on did she say
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Speaker 1: eric or tell us it's killing? Redirect? Redirect, redirect, And
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Speaker 1: in in this particular case, there is a mountain, a
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Speaker 1: mountain of physical evidence that leads back to this person. Uh,
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Speaker 1: and it's it's it's an it should you know, a
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Speaker 1: first appearance. It shouldn't be a two difficult hill for
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Speaker 1: the prosecution to claim. I mean to climb, but you
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Speaker 1: know you're talking about you're talking about did she or
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Speaker 1: did she not whisper this name Eric? And in the
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Speaker 1: state that the doctor had mentioned just a moment ago,
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Speaker 1: where this superheated air had traveled into her lungs and
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Speaker 1: nasal passages? How she even able to effectively communicate? Who
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Speaker 1: can really say of Jessica actually did say? Well, I
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Speaker 1: want you to hear what Jessica's father, Ben Chambers tells me.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember the moment when you heard your daughter
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Speaker 1: was a fire victim? Oh, yes, ma'am, real man, it's
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Speaker 1: just like it was yesterday, you know it was. I
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Speaker 1: just didn't want to believe it at first when they
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Speaker 1: called me, you know, I thought maybe, uh, you know,
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Speaker 1: she was just just a little bit, you know, didn't
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Speaker 1: uh didn't. I couldn't imagine the scale it was, you know.
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Speaker 1: And I asked Barry, was she okay? And you know,
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Speaker 1: and he got real solid and uh he said, no, man,
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Speaker 1: she she was not. And asked when my whole world
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Speaker 1: feel you know, where were you, Mr Chambers when you
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Speaker 1: learned I would just come home from MEMPHISO. We had
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Speaker 1: been Christmas shopping or whatever that day. We hadn't been
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Speaker 1: home maybe ten minutes more when he called. And what
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Speaker 1: did you do him? Uh? He uh told me he
15:04
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell me he's actually where it was at. Do
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Speaker 1: you want me to stay there at the house and
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Speaker 1: to share and him come to my house? In about
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Speaker 1: five minutes they was at the house and uh, he
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Speaker 1: told me, you know how bad she was burnt. And
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Speaker 1: they was flying her to Memphis. And a matter of fact,
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Speaker 1: when we were standing out in the yard, to helicopter
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Speaker 1: come over to pick her up, and so I took
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Speaker 1: off to Memphis. We beat the helicopter to Memphis, which
15:28
Speaker 1: is only about fifty some miles from my house. We
15:30
Speaker 1: beat We beat the helicopter there, you know. And let
15:33
Speaker 1: me ask you something. I just went through that flying
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Speaker 1: driving as fast as I could to get to my
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Speaker 1: father before he passed away. What do you remember about
15:48
Speaker 1: that drive to try to get to your daughter. Uh?
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Speaker 1: It was just, you know, I was just steady, free
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Speaker 1: in the Lord it should be okay, you know. Uh,
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Speaker 1: and what you know, just begging her, you know, just
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Speaker 1: not tak her you know, because I just I just
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Speaker 1: lost my son in a year before she got killed,
16:10
Speaker 1: you know, and uh uh just you know, my my
16:15
Speaker 1: whole world just shut down, you know, wait on the
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Speaker 1: doctors and seemed like it was the attorning to you know.
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Speaker 1: Uh and no idea doctor, the doctor come out. He
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Speaker 1: shouldn't dot thefore you was bad. You're hearing Ben Chambers
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Speaker 1: speaking to me about discovering his daughter had been a
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Speaker 1: fire victim. I'm talking about a teen girl, Jessica Chambers,
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Speaker 1: and Mississippi cheerleader, who was found wandering by the side
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Speaker 1: of the road, totally totally burned. Joining me Lauren Howard,
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Speaker 1: Dr Jane Gorniac, Ashley Wilcott just got Morgan and Shane
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Speaker 1: and die dirt. Ashley Wilcott. It's just so much for
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Speaker 1: me to even take in, you know, not long ago.
17:05
Speaker 1: And I call it thank goodness. We had insurance is
17:07
Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars. Splinter. Lucy had a splinter on her
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Speaker 1: foot and she absolutely that I would throw a big
17:16
Speaker 1: fit when I tried to get it out with a needle.
17:18
Speaker 1: Nothing would do. Okay, She's the same way when we
17:22
Speaker 1: try to give her a shot. She was screaming her
17:24
Speaker 1: hand off the other day and she got the flu shot.
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Speaker 1: I said, Lucy, it's over, the shot has already happened,
17:29
Speaker 1: and she was still going. Long story short, I had
17:32
Speaker 1: to take her to an e m T. Because I
17:34
Speaker 1: couldn't stand to put the needle in her toe for
17:38
Speaker 1: thirty seconds to get the splinter out, and of course
17:40
Speaker 1: not e m T emergency, you know, doc in a box.
17:43
Speaker 1: Excuse me, Dr Jane Gournia. I'm sure that's extremely offensive
17:46
Speaker 1: to everyone that's slaved for like eleven years of medical school. Okay,
17:50
Speaker 1: So so seven hundred plus dollars, thank you Lord for insurance. Okay,
17:59
Speaker 1: but I still use a seven figure to Lucy when
18:02
Speaker 1: I catch her walking around without chueser socks on. So
18:06
Speaker 1: that's I had that reaction just to trying to get
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Speaker 1: a splinter out of her darn toe. And this father
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Speaker 1: learns his daughter's flesh. She was burned alive, Ashley. So
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Speaker 1: not only that, First of all, he had people calling him,
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Speaker 1: he says, calling him and saying they lit her on fire.
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Speaker 1: They lit her on fire. Second of all, you've got
18:28
Speaker 1: first responders who said how horrific it was to see
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Speaker 1: her literally walking towards them completely burned, hair, burned off.
18:38
Speaker 1: Can you even imagine? And then there's even a firefighter
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Speaker 1: who was a first responder who said being a firefighter
18:43
Speaker 1: was his lifetong dream and after this he quit. He
18:47
Speaker 1: said he couldn't do it. It was that horrible. Now
18:49
Speaker 1: imagine being that child's father. You should never never lose
18:52
Speaker 1: a nineteen year old child, but especially by means at
18:56
Speaker 1: somebody's hands, where they do this to a person. The
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Speaker 1: father being Chambers, just gribing the desperate, desperate attempt to
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Speaker 1: get to the hospital. Take a listen to him speaking
19:06
Speaker 1: to me on h l M. When you finally run
19:10
Speaker 1: in the hospital, you're running up and down the halls,
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Speaker 1: you're trying to find her. You get there before the
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Speaker 1: airlift brings her there, and you finally see her. What
19:21
Speaker 1: did you see? Well? I didn't I didn't get to
19:23
Speaker 1: see her right then. You know that it was two
19:26
Speaker 1: hours before we uh got to go back there, you know,
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Speaker 1: And the doctor come out and hey, tell me, said
19:37
Speaker 1: Mr Chambers, she don't want to see your doughor right
19:39
Speaker 1: to Yes, I do, He said, No, you don't recognizable.
19:42
Speaker 1: You know, you know you don't recognize uh, you know,
19:50
Speaker 1: he said, you've never seen somebody. It's that bad could
19:54
Speaker 1: live as long as she did. She had a strong heart.
19:59
Speaker 1: I mean ship and no names or nothing, uh where
20:03
Speaker 1: they can even for the vs in or nothing. You know,
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Speaker 1: Mr Chambers, did you get to speak to her before
20:11
Speaker 1: she went to happen? No? No, not did you get
20:17
Speaker 1: to see her? I know? No, she is if we
20:22
Speaker 1: got ready to go into the room or whatever. My
20:27
Speaker 1: sister and her mother, Lisa walk in the rooms and
20:34
Speaker 1: to see they was in there maybe about thirty seconds
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Speaker 1: and she passed away. I can tell you this, Mr Chambers.
20:43
Speaker 1: I believe with all of my heart that she knew
20:46
Speaker 1: that you were there. You are hearing Jessica's father, Been Chambers,
20:51
Speaker 1: describing what he went through, racing like mad to get
20:55
Speaker 1: to the hospital to see his daughter after he learns
20:57
Speaker 1: that she is burned. She's a fire victim. Me. Here's
21:00
Speaker 1: the helicopters overhead, and those are the helicopters airlifting Jessica
21:06
Speaker 1: to the hospital. What monster did this to her? You know,
21:10
Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, I'm picking up on him talking about the
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Speaker 1: helicopter going over him while he's standing in his front yard.
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Speaker 1: Then putting the pieces together to realize that his daughter
21:21
Speaker 1: was in that helicopter being airlifted to try to save
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Speaker 1: her life. She died. Lauren Howard, you're the therapist, Lauren,
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Speaker 1: joining us from Manhattan. Lauren, why is it that little
21:33
Speaker 1: details like that stick in your mind? I remember a
21:38
Speaker 1: lot of small details and they stand out, you know,
21:42
Speaker 1: as big as a pyramid when I look back on
21:45
Speaker 1: my fiance's murderer, my father passing away. Why is that
21:49
Speaker 1: when you're in the moment, when it's happening, there is
21:52
Speaker 1: a true sense of unreality because it is so UNREALI
21:56
Speaker 1: this is you know, we we go through life managing petitions,
22:00
Speaker 1: and when things occur that are completely unexpected, we are
22:04
Speaker 1: in an out of reality moment. And so when you're
22:08
Speaker 1: in the moment, you don't have the experience. It's it's
22:11
Speaker 1: your adrenaline is pumping You're literally it's your body is
22:15
Speaker 1: is drugging you into surviving the moment. So you the
22:20
Speaker 1: necessity to recall in memory what occurred and to go
22:25
Speaker 1: over every fine detail to see to try to you
22:28
Speaker 1: want to feel the feeling that you were not able
22:31
Speaker 1: to feel when it was occurring. I mean, this, this
22:33
Speaker 1: is such an unreality. There's no way anyone could ever
22:37
Speaker 1: anticipate the moment where they are searching for their daughter
22:41
Speaker 1: who's in a helicopter our head, who someone set on fire.
22:46
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't possibly prepare for that moment, you,
22:50
Speaker 1: Lauren Howard. I got to interrupt you just a moment
22:52
Speaker 1: because as usually I always ask my guests, who are
22:55
Speaker 1: all these experts uh private personal information about myself? So
23:00
Speaker 1: can I ask you questions? You know? Very often after
23:03
Speaker 1: we do our program, I have to go and get
23:06
Speaker 1: in the car and drive to school as fie on
23:09
Speaker 1: the children. I know which one is their window from
23:12
Speaker 1: the street. I have to go over there and try.
23:15
Speaker 1: I try to be um secretive and cloak and daggers
23:18
Speaker 1: and they don't see Mommy staring in with a big
23:20
Speaker 1: set up an OCRs. I get so nutted up hearing
23:23
Speaker 1: all this. I have to go spy on them now,
23:25
Speaker 1: you know. They they stay weighed at me on the
23:28
Speaker 1: way to the playground because they see me sitting there
23:31
Speaker 1: in the parking lot. Because I just get so overwhelmed
23:34
Speaker 1: hearing all this. What is that? Well, it's now you've
23:40
Speaker 1: been Now, your sense of reality has been You're now
23:43
Speaker 1: you're questioning now the idea of a person being set
23:47
Speaker 1: on fire is no longer an unreality because you have
23:50
Speaker 1: you're working on a case, and you see that this occurred.
23:53
Speaker 1: Therefore it has the potential for reality. And so we
23:56
Speaker 1: often say instead of why me, why not me? Why
24:01
Speaker 1: couldn't the horrible things that I learned about in the
24:03
Speaker 1: course of my work happened to me, to my family,
24:06
Speaker 1: to my children. So your need is to to be
24:10
Speaker 1: grounded in that this is not occurring in your reality.
24:13
Speaker 1: And and you know this is I mean this fireman
24:15
Speaker 1: who stopped working as a fireman as a result of this.
24:18
Speaker 1: This is what happened for anyone in the medical profession,
24:22
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24:26
Speaker 1: exposed to severe trauma. I mean New Yorkers believe that
24:30
Speaker 1: planes can fly into buildings. Now, they didn't think that
24:33
Speaker 1: before nine eleven. So when they look above them and
24:36
Speaker 1: there's a plane flying into La Guardian, it's really low.
24:40
Speaker 1: There is that second of a fear about it because
24:44
Speaker 1: it's no longer a non reality. So I mean, it's
24:47
Speaker 1: you know, I just babysat from my granddaughter this weekend,
24:50
Speaker 1: and I was up all night just going in and
24:52
Speaker 1: looking in her crib to make stunctional breathing. I mean,
24:57
Speaker 1: what is that? When it's eight months? Is one of
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26:54
Speaker 1: During last year's first trial, nearly a dozen first responders
26:59
Speaker 1: many emotion testifying Chambers told them a man named Eric
27:03
Speaker 1: or Derek committed the crime before she died. She had
27:06
Speaker 1: her arms out, was coming towards me, saying help me,
27:10
Speaker 1: help me help. That was a major sticking point for
27:14
Speaker 1: tell US's defense attorneys, who argued that admission proved authorities
27:18
Speaker 1: had the wrong person on trial. Miss Chambers did not
27:23
Speaker 1: say Quentin set her on fire. She just did not
27:27
Speaker 1: say that, and we cannot ignore that. But Nola County
27:30
Speaker 1: District Attorney John Champion said at trial he believed tell
27:33
Speaker 1: Us suffocated Chambers before setting her car on fire to
27:37
Speaker 1: cover up evidence. Champion also argued phone correspondence could tell
27:42
Speaker 1: us with Chambers the night were death. When he's confronted
27:47
Speaker 1: with the physical evidence, the cell phone data, there was
27:51
Speaker 1: no way out for him. You are hearing our friends
27:57
Speaker 1: at a local Memphis dot com talking about the first
28:01
Speaker 1: trial of the man accused of burning teen cheerleader Jessica
28:05
Speaker 1: Chambers to death. His name Quentin tell Us. Quentin tell
28:11
Speaker 1: Us with a very very long rap sheet now wanted
28:16
Speaker 1: in connection with the murder of another young girl in Louisiana,
28:21
Speaker 1: a graduate student that's on hold as he faces retrial
28:26
Speaker 1: in the burning death, the so called lighter fluid murder
28:30
Speaker 1: of this teen girl, Jessica Chambers. The evidence unfolding in
28:34
Speaker 1: a court right now on retrial. It's happening right now
28:38
Speaker 1: that tell Us had been badgering this girl for sex,
28:43
Speaker 1: and in their text messages it's revealed she goes no, no, no, no, no,
28:47
Speaker 1: over and over and over. Cell Phone records place him
28:53
Speaker 1: with her on and out off throughout the day leading
28:56
Speaker 1: up to the time of her death. At that time,
29:00
Speaker 1: cell phone records place him going to his home. Surveillance
29:04
Speaker 1: video shows his sister's car going to his home where
29:08
Speaker 1: we know by his admission he has a shed where
29:13
Speaker 1: he keeps a gas can full of gas. Then the
29:17
Speaker 1: car leaves his home within two minutes after pulling in
29:23
Speaker 1: and heads in the direction of the fire where Jessica
29:27
Speaker 1: is murdered. The working theory is that after raping her,
29:32
Speaker 1: he strangles her, then decides to destroy the evidence, comes
29:38
Speaker 1: back and finds it. She's somewhat still alive. He had
29:44
Speaker 1: just strangled her to unconsciousness, and then he gets rid
29:48
Speaker 1: of the evidence by burning her alive. That's the state's
29:53
Speaker 1: working theory. I want it, and I wanted in a nutshell,
29:57
Speaker 1: Shane Deeter, tell me the facts. See the this whole
30:01
Speaker 1: thing comes down to the name Eric or Derek in
30:06
Speaker 1: his name being quitten. You played the clip with his attorney.
30:10
Speaker 1: There were several first responders on the scene who said
30:14
Speaker 1: that she whispered, whispered to them Eric, and that to
30:20
Speaker 1: be is where the whole thing, uh terms, is the
30:25
Speaker 1: defense using this as you've talked about. She was burned
30:29
Speaker 1: so bad? Was there really a way for her too,
30:32
Speaker 1: you know, say something? Or was she just trying to
30:37
Speaker 1: make noise? Uh? The director of the Emergency Operations in
30:42
Speaker 1: DeSoto County. Daniel Co testified that he wasn't for sure
30:47
Speaker 1: what she said because they were behind the fire truck
30:51
Speaker 1: and the scene was so loud and chaotic, But a
30:54
Speaker 1: couple of hours after the incident when he wrote his report,
30:58
Speaker 1: he didn't put that in it. Then she said, Eric
31:01
Speaker 1: set me on fire. I want to talk about the
31:04
Speaker 1: phone records in this case, his surveillance video and the
31:08
Speaker 1: fact that Quentin tell Us changes his story over and
31:12
Speaker 1: over and over. Let me go to you, Ashley Wilcott,
31:17
Speaker 1: describe your understanding of the phone records combined with his
31:22
Speaker 1: changing stories. So let's start with his changing stories. And that,
31:25
Speaker 1: to me is one of the most telling things in
31:27
Speaker 1: this case, because he waffled in his statements more than once.
31:32
Speaker 1: He did things, he gave alibis, all of which, by
31:36
Speaker 1: the way, Nancy fell through. Every one of his alibis
31:38
Speaker 1: for that night fell through. And so as he changes
31:41
Speaker 1: his stories, and he says, for instance, we had sex
31:44
Speaker 1: in the car and the backseat passenger seat was all
31:47
Speaker 1: the way back, and he said that happened probably two
31:50
Speaker 1: weeks before she was burned in a car. Will lo
31:54
Speaker 1: and behold, guess what the burned car the seat was
31:57
Speaker 1: reclined and the same position that he does scribe but
32:00
Speaker 1: said it had happened two weeks before, So there are
32:02
Speaker 1: too many inconsistencies. Now add that to the phone records.
32:07
Speaker 1: There were multiple multiple texts from him to Jessica basically
32:13
Speaker 1: wanting to have sex with her, and her response were
32:16
Speaker 1: things that would be interpreted by anyone I know as no,
32:18
Speaker 1: thank you, and I think one of the responses was
32:21
Speaker 1: oh lord. But if you read all the texts, clearly
32:24
Speaker 1: she was rejecting him or saying no and didn't want
32:27
Speaker 1: to have sex with him. So you add all that
32:29
Speaker 1: together and it does not pass the smell tests. Well,
32:33
Speaker 1: I don't understand, um, why, as she's been saying no, no, no, no, no,
32:39
Speaker 1: suddenly she capitulates that particular evening and ends up dead.
32:43
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense to me. One thing testimony revealed
32:47
Speaker 1: is that Quentin tell Us changed clothes that evening and
32:50
Speaker 1: put on a brand new set of clothes when he
32:54
Speaker 1: was caught on security camera that evening at Fred's Dollar
32:57
Speaker 1: Store in Bates, phil about eight or any um. That's
33:01
Speaker 1: when he was buying a cash card from a girlfriend
33:05
Speaker 1: in Louisiana. I wonder if that's the girl they claim
33:09
Speaker 1: he killed. But as it relates to this case, Dr
33:13
Speaker 1: Jan Gorney at if you have set somebody on fire
33:16
Speaker 1: with gasoline, that smell would be all on your clothes,
33:21
Speaker 1: would it not. Nancy, you're correct. We will be able
33:24
Speaker 1: to smell an accelerant. You can't actually say it's lighter
33:28
Speaker 1: fluid or gasoline or anything like that. But we we
33:30
Speaker 1: know the smell of gasoline or lighter fluid. But we
33:33
Speaker 1: would just describe it as a smell of a possible
33:36
Speaker 1: accelerant on the close and then take those clothes and
33:40
Speaker 1: preserve them. So um the fire department or the climb
33:43
Speaker 1: lab contest to see what accelerant was actually. Take a
33:46
Speaker 1: listen to our friend Brad Borders at Local Memphis dot com.
33:50
Speaker 1: Clip seven conflicting emotions in Chatons last October very hunjury
33:59
Speaker 1: and mistrial in the Jessica Chambers murder case. Now nearly
34:03
Speaker 1: a year later, prosecutors get a second chance to convince
34:06
Speaker 1: a different jury to convict Chambers accused killer, twenty nine
34:10
Speaker 1: year old Quentin tell Us, who maintains his innocence. First
34:14
Speaker 1: responders found the nineteen year old Chambers burnt staggering in
34:18
Speaker 1: barely aligned near her charred card. December six in Courtland, Mississippi,
34:23
Speaker 1: sixty miles south of Memphis, a grand jury indicted tell
34:27
Speaker 1: Us in fourteen months after the crime. What was this
34:32
Speaker 1: person wearing when I say her? She had nothing on
34:37
Speaker 1: him with her pats And what did you tell me?
34:41
Speaker 1: You did? You? You got a blanket? I got out
34:43
Speaker 1: and I got a blanket, and she had her arms out,
34:47
Speaker 1: was coming towards me saying, help me, help me, help me, Nicole.
34:52
Speaker 1: I want you to describe for this jury what type
34:54
Speaker 1: of what did she look like? What was the condition
34:56
Speaker 1: of Jessica Chambers? Her hair was her hair was fried
35:12
Speaker 1: out like she's stuck in the light socket, and she
35:20
Speaker 1: had black all over her face. Her body was severely burned,
35:26
Speaker 1: and just all the way down her body was was
35:32
Speaker 1: it was very badly burned, and proceeded a layer down
35:38
Speaker 1: on the ground. She reached out for I Am. I
35:45
Speaker 1: held him into her hand and I talked to her
35:53
Speaker 1: and I asked her her name, and she said what
35:57
Speaker 1: come out like I said all her mouth inside her
36:02
Speaker 1: mouth was just charred black. And could not understand her
36:12
Speaker 1: very well at all. Were you able to get a
36:15
Speaker 1: name when I asked her her name. She said Jessica Chambers,
36:23
Speaker 1: and like I said, she was not recognizable to me.
36:30
Speaker 1: I hope what Jessica Chambers looked like did not look
36:33
Speaker 1: like Jessica Chambers at the time. Now, describe her voice
36:39
Speaker 1: for the jury. How is it coming out when you
36:41
Speaker 1: were talking to her? It was very gargled and just dry.
36:48
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I was. I was face to
36:53
Speaker 1: face with her, and she uh, Like I said, you
37:00
Speaker 1: could you could barely understand her. And she she kept
37:05
Speaker 1: asking for water, and and I knew in my mind
37:11
Speaker 1: she didn't need water. I knew that was not the best,
37:15
Speaker 1: you know, not to give her water. Held her hand
37:20
Speaker 1: beside her and aster what happened, and she told me
37:27
Speaker 1: she said I would set on fire again. It was
37:30
Speaker 1: her voice clear, it was not not clear. Like I said,
37:37
Speaker 1: you know, some words come. You were able to tell
37:44
Speaker 1: what they were plainly, but it was not clear, if
37:51
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Did you ask her who did this? Her?
37:55
Speaker 1: I asked her, I said, who did this? She tried
37:59
Speaker 1: to say it. I cannot understand that you are hearing
38:04
Speaker 1: testimony from far Chief Cole Haley testifying at her first
38:09
Speaker 1: trial about what he saw and her at the same
38:11
Speaker 1: where Jessica Chambers was found burned alive. The major evidence
38:17
Speaker 1: in this case is going to be cell phone data. Also,
38:23
Speaker 1: they're going to be looking at the medical examiners report
38:28
Speaker 1: Dr Jeanne Gorniac with a body burned to the degree
38:32
Speaker 1: Jessica's body was burned. Will they be able to get
38:36
Speaker 1: DNA to determine if she were raped? Yes, there's a
38:40
Speaker 1: possibility they can still get that. That that specimen UM
38:44
Speaker 1: because doing a swab of the mouth actually you said
38:47
Speaker 1: there could be some slight or fluid or burns to
38:50
Speaker 1: the mouth. UM. We do anal swabs, we can do
38:53
Speaker 1: a vaginal swab, and so as long as she's not
38:57
Speaker 1: burned inside, UM, we should still be well too obtained
39:01
Speaker 1: some specimens that could um lead to a sexual assault
39:05
Speaker 1: or even not, or even injuries we can look at
39:08
Speaker 1: at injuries UM. Once again that as experts in injury interpretation,
39:13
Speaker 1: sometimes it's difficult with burns. But if they're not, if
39:16
Speaker 1: she's not charred and it's the first or second, you know,
39:19
Speaker 1: possibly third degree burns UM in that area, we'll be
39:23
Speaker 1: able to determine if there's any other lacerations or tears
39:27
Speaker 1: that suggests a sexual assault had occurred. It's our understanding
39:31
Speaker 1: that the arsenal attacked the burning of Jessica Chambers happened
39:35
Speaker 1: in the vicinity of seven thirty to eight thirty. The
39:39
Speaker 1: last phone call or text at Jessica ever made a
39:42
Speaker 1: card at six that's about forty minutes before she's attacked. Now,
39:48
Speaker 1: according to his own statement, Quentin tell Us says they
39:52
Speaker 1: were together up until that point in time, nearly seven
39:57
Speaker 1: o clock, so too, Ashley Wilcott, Am I supposed to believe? Now?
40:03
Speaker 1: And then after that, video surveillance shows him going to
40:08
Speaker 1: his home and his sister's car, where he keeps a
40:11
Speaker 1: gas can in the shed. He's only at the home
40:15
Speaker 1: less than two minutes, comes right back out of the
40:17
Speaker 1: driveway and drives off toward her car, where it was
40:22
Speaker 1: later found on fire. Okay, we know he keeps gas
40:25
Speaker 1: and a gas can there. Am I supposed to believe
40:29
Speaker 1: Ashley that between six and seven thirty some other person
40:34
Speaker 1: comes and finds her in an obscure spot in the
40:39
Speaker 1: woods and sets her on fire. Somebody else did it,
40:43
Speaker 1: and then he runs home and changes clothes and we
40:44
Speaker 1: won't smell like gasoline. No, this is what we know
40:47
Speaker 1: in court a circumstantial evidence, and when you put all
40:49
Speaker 1: the evidence together to prove that between that timeline he
40:53
Speaker 1: had to have been the one to do it, I
40:54
Speaker 1: think the prosecution can successfully argue that. I think it's
40:58
Speaker 1: unreasonable and unrealist stick to believe that in that very
41:01
Speaker 1: short time frame you've just discovered that six to seven
41:04
Speaker 1: thirty that no, he he was doing something else, and
41:08
Speaker 1: all the facts add up in this case so that
41:10
Speaker 1: the circumstantial evidence, I think will prove that he did this.
41:13
Speaker 1: Back to Shane data reporting on the case, what more
41:18
Speaker 1: do we know? What do we know about the Louisiana
41:21
Speaker 1: Martyr and then we know that that is a woman
41:24
Speaker 1: that he was having a relationship with. We know that
41:29
Speaker 1: he took her bank card and that he used her
41:33
Speaker 1: bank card. So that case has been put on hold
41:37
Speaker 1: until this trial here with Jessica Chambers is settled. He
41:44
Speaker 1: is also in prison for five years in Mississippi on
41:48
Speaker 1: an unrelated burglary charge. So Quentin has been in quite
41:54
Speaker 1: a bit of trouble before. So that's certainly one way
41:58
Speaker 1: to put it. Because when I the question to her father,
42:02
Speaker 1: I want you to hear what he tells me. We're
42:04
Speaker 1: talking about Jessica Chambers soaked in fuel like gasoline in
42:10
Speaker 1: her car on a rural road, set on fire, and
42:13
Speaker 1: left for dead. She stumbled to a roadside ditch before
42:18
Speaker 1: she was spotted by a motorist to cause one The
42:22
Speaker 1: fire that engulfed her ended up being so incredibly hot
42:28
Speaker 1: it turned her black Kia Rio completely white. It incinerated
42:35
Speaker 1: her clothes, and it blinded her. Speaking of his record,
42:43
Speaker 1: listen to what her dad been, Chambers tells me, on
42:46
Speaker 1: che do you tell me your reaction when you learned
42:52
Speaker 1: that a guy had been apprehended. He has been apprehended,
42:57
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm so glad they called him. You know,
43:02
Speaker 1: it's admitted swet for what My whole problem is, why
43:06
Speaker 1: was he down the street? He should have ever been
43:08
Speaker 1: as the jail, you know, the crabs, he was committed
43:13
Speaker 1: in the thing that why he was in through that
43:15
Speaker 1: he should have never been out. He only got out
43:17
Speaker 1: of prison in October, and he killed my daughter and
43:20
Speaker 1: the like. He should have never been on the street.
43:22
Speaker 1: That's my problem. I don't understand it. I don't understand
43:28
Speaker 1: your service in server a year and and uh at
43:32
Speaker 1: three years before that, you know, Mr Chambers, I don't
43:38
Speaker 1: know why. I don't know why he was out, but
43:42
Speaker 1: I can promise you this, I'm gonna stay on this
43:45
Speaker 1: until this trial is done, and God willing, until justice
43:51
Speaker 1: has served. The retrial of Quentin tell Us going on. Now.
43:58
Speaker 1: You have categorically denied it that this happened. Did anything happen. No,
44:04
Speaker 1: I've never sexually assaulted anyone, not in high school, not ever.
44:11
Speaker 1: I've always treated women with dignity and respect. Listen to
44:16
Speaker 1: the people who have known me best through my whole life.
44:19
Speaker 1: The woman who have known me since high school, who
44:22
Speaker 1: overnight signed a letter from high school saying I always
44:25
Speaker 1: treated them with dignity and respect. What is real? What
44:29
Speaker 1: is not real. One of the most significant roles of
44:34
Speaker 1: a president, believe it or not, is naming Supreme Court justices,
44:40
Speaker 1: because those nine judges who are on the bids for life,
44:45
Speaker 1: for life. It's not a four year and an eight
44:48
Speaker 1: year term, it's for life, will shape the future of
44:54
Speaker 1: our jurisprudence. In other words, what those nine people determine
45:00
Speaker 1: change our lives forever. You were just hearing the Supreme
45:03
Speaker 1: Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh categorically denying ever sex assaulted anyone
45:09
Speaker 1: in high school or college or ever. So where did
45:13
Speaker 1: these women come from? Are they telling the truth? How
45:17
Speaker 1: do they mysteriously appear at the time of the Supreme
45:20
Speaker 1: Court proceedings? Well? Could it be because they never wanted
45:23
Speaker 1: to speak up before? Or they conjured up by his
45:27
Speaker 1: political opponents? What is the truth? Let's start with the facts.
45:32
Speaker 1: Joining me syndicated talk to your host, Dave Matt. Dave Matt,
45:36
Speaker 1: how did the whole thing start? We heard nothing about
45:39
Speaker 1: these attacks until Kavanaugh was named by Trump as his
45:43
Speaker 1: pick for Supreme Court judge. What do we know what
45:46
Speaker 1: happened then? Well, we know that the first accuser, Christine Ford,
45:51
Speaker 1: actually sent a letter to Diane Feinstein a couple of
45:54
Speaker 1: months ago, and that's where the first, the first ground
45:58
Speaker 1: swell began with her accusation. Um leaving this most recent
46:03
Speaker 1: article with Ronan Pharaoh off to the side for just
46:06
Speaker 1: a minute. These types of accusations, Nancy, are made after
46:10
Speaker 1: what thirty five years? And I know that some women
46:13
Speaker 1: don't come forward, and I get that I'm the father
46:15
Speaker 1: of two daughters. But the reality here is nothing is
46:19
Speaker 1: said about this guy until he becomes a Supreme Court nominee.
46:23
Speaker 1: And in MS Ford's commentary and the witnesses, she says,
46:28
Speaker 1: we're they're they're all saying we weren't there, it didn't happen.
46:31
Speaker 1: So the only reason we're even talking about this is
46:33
Speaker 1: because of the media driving this boat and liberals hopping
46:37
Speaker 1: on board to damage a guy who apparently has done
46:40
Speaker 1: nothing wrong. Hold on just a moment, Dave matt, I
46:44
Speaker 1: don't know what program you think you're on. Okay, I
46:49
Speaker 1: don't have an opinion politically on this. I'm not a
46:51
Speaker 1: Republican and I'm not a Democrat. But what I am
46:54
Speaker 1: as a crime victim that wants the truth, all right,
46:57
Speaker 1: So don't jump up with me telling me that to
47:01
Speaker 1: suggest this was all conjured up and we don't know.
47:04
Speaker 1: Excuse me, Dave McK but have you heard the testimony?
47:07
Speaker 1: Oh wait, it hasn't started yet, But I've read and
47:11
Speaker 1: I've listened to the commentary from those you've read. What.
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Speaker 1: Let's be clear, I am not a Republican, I'm not
47:16
Speaker 1: a Democrat, and actually it's sure sounds like you are.
47:19
Speaker 1: You know what does Let's just let's back it up.
47:22
Speaker 1: Let's back it up and talk about what the facts
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Speaker 1: and we are that we know of Okay two, Wendy Patrick.
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Speaker 1: We know that Trump nominates Kavanaugh to sit on the
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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. We know after that, Christine Blasi Ford comes forward.
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Speaker 1: We know that she is a mother, she has a job,
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Speaker 1: she has a lot, she's a professor. She's never heard
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Speaker 1: from her before, and no trouble. Seemingly a happy, normal
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Speaker 1: person comes forward and says, what what is her claim?
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Speaker 1: Wendy patcheck, let's to start with that. So she came
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Speaker 1: forward and basically claimed that thirty six years ago, she
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Speaker 1: and Kavana were at the same party. She left the
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Speaker 1: main room to walk to the bathroom. Kavanaugh came into
48:10
Speaker 1: the room with another of his friend's named Mike Judge.
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Speaker 1: Kavanaugh supposedly pushed her on the bed and was trying
48:15
Speaker 1: to remove her clothing while Mike Judge egged him on.
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Speaker 1: But there were more details than that, Nancy. There was
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Speaker 1: details about turning up music in case she's screaming, Kavanaugh
48:24
Speaker 1: putting his hand over her mouth. These are the allegations
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Speaker 1: she made, and she didn't just make them. Apparently some
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Speaker 1: of this came out during a therapy session years ago,
48:33
Speaker 1: but Kavanaugh's name surfaced recently in connection with the letters
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Speaker 1: she sent to Diane Einstein, the Senator. But Nancy, that
48:41
Speaker 1: is where we start an investigation. What Thursday is for
48:46
Speaker 1: is to actually test this history and to allow Judge
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Speaker 1: Kavanaugh at least some modicum of due process to be
48:53
Speaker 1: able to respond, because he's basically in a position of
48:56
Speaker 1: trying to prove a negative, proving he didn't do it,
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Speaker 1: whereas you and I know in a criminal court he
49:01
Speaker 1: wouldn't have a burden of proof. But those were the
49:03
Speaker 1: initial allegations that have really taken us to where we
49:07
Speaker 1: are today, to giving both she and Judge Cavanaugh an
49:11
Speaker 1: opportunity to address this in front of the Senate. Well,
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Speaker 1: I don't believe her, and I don't believe him. Uh. Conversely,
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Speaker 1: I believe her and I believe him. My mind is
49:22
Speaker 1: totally open on this. Now. I'm coming from a point
49:26
Speaker 1: of view where I'm a crime victim. I've represented sex
49:30
Speaker 1: assault victims in the past. The fact that she her
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Speaker 1: story is rich in detail suggests that it's true. Um,
49:38
Speaker 1: the fact that she's waited all these years to come
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Speaker 1: forward suggests that it's false. However, I know that victims
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Speaker 1: very often never come forward, and they don't say anything
49:49
Speaker 1: until they feel like they have to. Who is Christine
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Speaker 1: Margaret Blasi Ford? Okay, She's born nineteen sixty six. She's
49:56
Speaker 1: known professionally as Christine Blasi. She is uh ecologist and
50:00
Speaker 1: professor of statistics at Palo Alto University. She has published
50:06
Speaker 1: in her fields. She specializes in designing statistical models for
50:10
Speaker 1: research projects. She has worked as a research psychologist for Stanford.
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Speaker 1: It goes on and on and on. She's alleging this
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Speaker 1: sex assault a card in nineteen two. What more do
50:25
Speaker 1: we know about her? We know that she has a
50:28
Speaker 1: stellar professional life. We also know she lives with her
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Speaker 1: husband that she married in two thousand two. She's got
50:35
Speaker 1: two sons. Um. We know that she is a registered Democrat.
50:43
Speaker 1: We know that she has protested Trump. What does that
50:48
Speaker 1: mean to me? Does that mean she's telling the truth
50:52
Speaker 1: or has she been plucked out of obscurity to make
50:55
Speaker 1: this claim. I'm curious about the the guy that was
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Speaker 1: the alleged witness. Back to you, Dave mac who is
51:02
Speaker 1: might judge that she says was in the room. And
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Speaker 1: what does he say? Well, he says that he doesn't
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Speaker 1: recall the party and doesn't recall her. What her claim is?
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Speaker 1: And again we are talking about high school. Now he's
51:13
Speaker 1: talking about she was fifteen, the guys were allegedly seventeen,
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Speaker 1: And Judge says, I don't know what she's talking about.
51:19
Speaker 1: I remember high school perfectly well and all that's glory
51:23
Speaker 1: and pain of going through high school. What can you
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Speaker 1: tell me, Dave mac about a another allegation now servicing
51:35
Speaker 1: against Kavanaugh. Okay, there was a recent article published with
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Speaker 1: Ronan Pharaoh's byline, and it was in the New Yorker.
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Speaker 1: This is an article. I gotta point this out, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: Several other publications refused to print because they just couldn't
51:48
Speaker 1: substantiate the claim. Deborah Ramirez is claiming sexual misconduct on
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Speaker 1: the part of Kavanaugh, claiming it happened to her while
51:55
Speaker 1: she was at Yale University and a dormitory party four
51:59
Speaker 1: year in that time frame. And she's claiming, um that
52:03
Speaker 1: during a drinking game that Kevina exposed himself and god
52:07
Speaker 1: even a little bit further than that. But she did
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Speaker 1: name my witnesses people that were allegedly there, and the
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Speaker 1: four people that she named have all already said didn't happen,
52:17
Speaker 1: weren't there, never even heard about this. So again, thirty
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Speaker 1: five years ago, there's a claim, and the four people
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Speaker 1: that she names all say it didn't happen. We weren't there.
52:27
Speaker 1: I know what she's talking about, Okay, I don't really
52:31
Speaker 1: know how we would prove a case like this if
52:35
Speaker 1: it went to a jury trial. With me Karen Smith,
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Speaker 1: forensics expert joining me out of Florida. She and I've
52:42
Speaker 1: conducted many, many forensic experiments together. Karen see I look
52:49
Speaker 1: at everything from a world of black and white. Can
52:52
Speaker 1: I bring it into evidence? What can you do with
52:54
Speaker 1: these climbs forensically nothing, There is no forensics. And that's
52:59
Speaker 1: the problem with these cases. There, he said, she said,
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Speaker 1: And Nancy, you know this has become so politicized and
53:06
Speaker 1: so spun up on both sides, and in my mind,
53:09
Speaker 1: there is only one way to you know, even if
53:13
Speaker 1: we can get to the bottom of this. It threw
53:15
Speaker 1: the FBI. Allow them to do a full, fair and
53:20
Speaker 1: unbiased investigation into all of these claims. Interview everyone, get
53:24
Speaker 1: to the bottom of what they know, whether they were
53:27
Speaker 1: there or not, get their testimony, get their statements, and
53:31
Speaker 1: then go from there. It is beyond me why we
53:34
Speaker 1: have not allowed the FBI to interview these people and
53:39
Speaker 1: find out the truth as far as we can after
53:41
Speaker 1: so many years have passed. It's only fair to everybody involved,
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Speaker 1: and it's only fair to the American public. Karen, start
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Speaker 1: joining me, psychologists joining me out of New York, Karen.
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Speaker 1: Very often victims don't ever come forward. I mean, everybody
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Speaker 1: on this panel. Has it something happening? You've never told anybody? Okay,
54:03
Speaker 1: because it has to me. I don't see any reason
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Speaker 1: I should. Well, Karen, why my question is different? Why
54:14
Speaker 1: are we rushing forward? Why can't we find out the
54:16
Speaker 1: truth through the FBI before we go forward with anything? Well, well,
54:22
Speaker 1: what what's the problem with that? Well, I think part
54:25
Speaker 1: of why it's been rush so agances because he's been
54:30
Speaker 1: you know, put up as somebody to be he's current
54:35
Speaker 1: to be in this very very important position. And we
54:39
Speaker 1: are living the time when everything is so polarized and
54:43
Speaker 1: it's democratic or republican. So people come on board and
54:48
Speaker 1: forget that this is an issue that is very important.
54:52
Speaker 1: I'm reminded, and I know I'm the only one to
54:55
Speaker 1: keep breathing about it now is the need to help.
54:58
Speaker 1: Where she was condemned for coming forward after so many years,
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Speaker 1: Yet if you know, you know I know as a
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Speaker 1: psychologist that that is absolutely the truth. That's not that
55:11
Speaker 1: person is true. I can't know that, but I do
55:14
Speaker 1: know that people do not speak up. It's shameful, it's embarrassing,
55:20
Speaker 1: and I would suspect that there was no reason for
55:24
Speaker 1: her to share this story accepting therapy as she did.
55:28
Speaker 1: Or if she's concerned that someone's going to be in
55:31
Speaker 1: a very important position making laws about our country and
55:36
Speaker 1: then gets concerned that that person is not the right
55:39
Speaker 1: person should be in that position. Well, Anita Hill, who
55:44
Speaker 1: is now a feminist icon, remember she came forward about
55:48
Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas, the current Supreme Court justice from Pinpoint, Georgia,
55:53
Speaker 1: as I recall what stands out in my mind about
55:55
Speaker 1: that is his affinity with a porn actor. Lord Dog Silver,
56:00
Speaker 1: you know I don't want to make the same mistake twice.
56:03
Speaker 1: Why can't we just put the brakes on it and
56:06
Speaker 1: find out the truth? Nancy Grace crime story, signing off,
56:11
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,