Latest / Half the Picture / #18 - PETER CAPALDI

Transcript

#18 - PETER CAPALDI · Half the Picture

• 0:00
  You look like a Balathquist character, a Balathquist, a Spanish painter,
• 0:07
  often painter, the members of the courts of the king fell up whatever was the fifth of Spain
• 0:12
  and they were often men like you with a mop of hair like that and a good tea.
• 0:18
  Well, it is beef and area, yeah.
• 0:19
  I'm not never very good at dates that pertain to dates, I think.
• 0:24
  You mean in terms of what stuff you've done or like...
• 0:26
  Yeah, very different.
• 0:27
  I think Doctor was very special because it goes right back to my childhood
• 0:33
  and Doctor Who I just remember as a strange thing.
• 0:36
  The worst thing about Doctor is everybody's got an opinion.
• 0:38
  And some of the things they come up with are just...
• 0:42
  In Suicide Squad, Marguerobi was there in some terrible Harlequin scanty kind of thing.
• 0:48
  There was a rain machine.
• 0:50
  She stood in the rain all day long for like three days and never complained.
• 0:54
  I thought that's the real thing.
• 0:56
  The act that I am now probably comes from there.
• 0:59
  Are you deliberately stamping on my c***?
• 1:01
  Because if you are, I'll take that f***ing repulsive unicorn form and tie.
• 1:06
  I'll use it to floss your elementary canal.
• 1:08
  Do I make myself perfectly f***ing clear?
• 1:20
  Hey everyone, I'm Billy and welcome back to Half the Picture.
• 1:23
  I'm so unbelievably thrilled to say that our special guest this episode
• 1:27
  is none other than Peter Capaldi.
• 1:28
  So I've been a fan of Peter's for years.
• 1:30
  I mean, going back to his stuff in, you know, programs like Doctor Who, of course,
• 1:33
  where he played the 12th Doctor, you know, Seminole for me,
• 1:36
  and also his work on, you know, The F*** of It as Malcolm Tucker,
• 1:39
  as well as his musical career, sharing a stage with Franz Ferdinand at Glastonbury
• 1:42
  over the summer.
• 1:43
  Films like Little Hero and The Suicide Squad as well with like Marguerobi and James Gunn.
• 1:47
  I love his screen presence.
• 1:49
  The commande has of the screen and the frame.
• 1:52
  His versatility is an actor, you know, it's a sensitivity hat.
• 1:54
  How he can go from being warm and gentle as the Doctor to something like,
• 1:58
  you know, swearing Malcolm Tucker, you know, and be this bullish figure.
• 2:01
  Speaking of which, there will be a fair bit of swearing in this episode
• 2:03
  just to warn some sensitive members of the, uh, of the viewership.
• 2:06
  So, without further ado, let's roll on my conversation with Peter Capaldi.
• 2:10
  Enjoy.
• 2:12
  Hi, Pierre. Welcome to Half the Picture.
• 2:14
  Lovely to be here. Thanks for having me.
• 2:16
  Our pleasure, where, you know, we're enormous fans, as you probably gathered from, uh,
• 2:19
  some of the chat you've been out of the handshakes you had the four-year-old.
• 2:22
  Well, that's kind of you.
• 2:24
  Very generous.
• 2:25
  Hmm.
• 2:26
  So, looking back at this year for you, 2025, I think it's fair to say it's been a pretty,
• 2:30
  you know, it's been at least in my perspective.
• 2:32
  It seems like it's been a pretty amazing year for you.
• 2:34
  I mean, just to rattle off some of the things that you've had going on,
• 2:37
  you've headlined an episode of Black Mirror, you know,
• 2:39
  Working with Charlie Brooker, who's an amazing writer, Black Mirror, incredible series.
• 2:43
  You've got series three of Devil's Hour coming down the pipe, you know,
• 2:46
  sort of in the next few months, which is very exciting.
• 2:49
  You had your new album out, Sweet Illusions, which is amazing, which I love,
• 2:53
  out in the spring.
• 2:54
  And in the summer, you took to the stage of Franz Ferdinand as a part of Glastonbury.
• 2:58
  Yeah.
• 2:59
  Yeah, I mean, what's all that being like?
• 3:01
  Well, it's been great.
• 3:02
  I've also shot Season Two of Criminal Record, which is a show we do for our poor,
• 3:06
  which we're just finishing editing at the moment.
• 3:09
  So, that's taken up actually most of the year.
• 3:11
  So, all these other things that went on were lovely,
• 3:14
  but they're sort of a side boss to that.
• 3:16
  Great, I mean, the Glastonbury thing was amazing.
• 3:18
  I mean, I just sort of came out, I mean, I'm a fan of Franz Ferdinand,
• 3:22
  but I don't know them.
• 3:25
  Although they all went to art school in Glasgow,
• 3:27
  to the same art school I went to.
• 3:29
  So, I felt as if they were kind of from a similar background as a different generation.
• 3:35
  But how that occurred was I have put together a band to try to play my music live.
• 3:44
  So, my friend, Christine Dinwoody, who works in music said,
• 3:47
  you've got to do this.
• 3:48
  And I said, well, I don't know how to do it.
• 3:49
  She said, well, I'll find some people for you.
• 3:51
  So, you can have some musicians.
• 3:52
  So, she found me this little, this great group of musicians.
• 3:55
  But Charlotte, who plays the bass in my band,
• 3:59
  her partner is Audrey, who plays the drums in Franz Ferdinand.
• 4:03
  And I had been rehearsing with my band and I had said to them this song,
• 4:09
  whatever it was.
• 4:10
  I said, this has to be like a Franz Ferdinand song.
• 4:12
  You know, it has to be like a heat-seeking missile.
• 4:15
  It has to be really, really tight.
• 4:16
  And all the little refs have to be worked out.
• 4:18
  We have to be able to do it exactly precisely the same every time we do it.
• 4:22
  And I think she'd said that reported that to Audrey.
• 4:24
  And I think Audrey had reported that to the band, which was obviously a confirmation that I was a fan.
• 4:30
  And then they just got in touch and Alex said,
• 4:33
  would I like to play with them at Glastonbury, which was like a total what?
• 4:37
  Where did that come from?
• 4:39
  And then I wasn't sure what they wanted me to do.
• 4:42
  And I thought they were going to do some strange Doctor Who sort of thing.
• 4:45
  Have a TARDIS or something like that.
• 4:46
  I thought he wanted to do all that.
• 4:48
  Have you come out of a TARDIS on stage?
• 4:50
  All of that carry on.
• 4:51
  And he said, no, he said, I want you to sing a song with it.
• 4:56
  So I said, well, what song?
• 4:57
  And he said, take me out.
• 4:59
  I said, well, you're biggest here.
• 5:00
  He said, yeah, okay.
• 5:04
  I mean, so, but that was months and months beforehand.
• 5:08
  And we didn't know that Lewis Capaldi was going to be playing on the same day that came that came later.
• 5:13
  So that was very funny.
• 5:15
  But I just walked around for months singing this, you know, with my headphones and singing this song.
• 5:20
  In fact, one of the bands said they have a friend who lives in North London who said they had seen me walking around singing.
• 5:26
  Take me out because I was terrified.
• 5:29
  I would get it wrong.
• 5:30
  But it was just joyful.
• 5:32
  I mean, it was just that you can't lose really.
• 5:34
  They're fantastic.
• 5:34
  It's a sunny day.
• 5:35
  The crowds having a good time.
• 5:37
  Even if you mess it up.
• 5:38
  Who cares?
• 5:40
  You know, so I just had a laugh.
• 5:41
  The only thing was I hadn't been to.
• 5:44
  They didn't tell me.
• 5:46
  I thought it was going to be an attempt or something.
• 5:48
  I didn't know that that stage was so big.
• 5:50
  It's one of the main stages.
• 5:52
  Yeah, I didn't know that.
• 5:53
  I thought, because I just thought, well, there's a parent because I hadn't been to Glacenbury.
• 5:56
  I thought that's the permanent stage.
• 5:58
  And then tense.
• 5:59
  So I thought, we're just being a tent.
• 6:02
  So when I got there and I heard the crowd,
• 6:04
  I don't go to football matches.
• 6:06
  I'm not around football.
• 6:08
  So I heard the sound moved through my body.
• 6:11
  It was like the Coliseum or something.
• 6:14
  It was this sound.
• 6:16
  And then they didn't tell me.
• 6:18
  It was going to be televised either.
• 6:20
  So all this was news on the day.
• 6:22
  But it was a laugh.
• 6:23
  I'm very grateful to them because it was just fun.
• 6:26
  It was just joyful.
• 6:27
  And it was, you know, you can't lose.
• 6:30
  They're brilliant.
• 6:32
  Even if I really messed up, they'd still have just the crowd.
• 6:36
  It's just a wonderful experience.
• 6:38
  No, it was to watch as well.
• 6:40
  And obviously, it was completely unannounced.
• 6:42
  No one had any idea.
• 6:43
  And I remember when it came up on my phone.
• 6:46
  And when you came out on stage.
• 6:48
  And all of what you just said, obviously,
• 6:50
  it sounded like you really wanted to go well and to get it right.
• 6:54
  But when you came on stage, it was just the coolest thing ever.
• 6:58
  And it was just like, you just seemed to have...
• 7:00
  To me, you had it totally down.
• 7:02
  And it looked like you were enjoying yourself.
• 7:04
  All those thousands of people just out there.
• 7:06
  And you were just playing to them.
• 7:08
  And it was incredible to see.
• 7:10
  Well, the funny thing was, I remember the...
• 7:12
  I had gone to...
• 7:14
  I met the band the day before.
• 7:16
  Because they had a rehearsal place in Wembley.
• 7:18
  And they said, could you come in?
• 7:20
  Because we're rehearsing.
• 7:22
  And the whole thing about festivals is new to me.
• 7:26
  At the bottom.
• 7:28
  Bands bring their own sets.
• 7:30
  So they had in Wembley, they had their own set.
• 7:32
  Which was there to kind of...
• 7:34
  To me, it was a vaguely light and detainment.
• 7:36
  Two ronies, kind of.
• 7:38
  That little staircase to walk down.
• 7:40
  And they had a shiny floor as well.
• 7:42
  Which they had laid on the stage at Glastonbury.
• 7:44
  But it was blinding.
• 7:46
  So there was a mad panic before they...
• 7:48
  Because you only have 20 minutes between bands.
• 7:50
  To change the gear and the set.
• 7:54
  A mad panic while they left with this tin foil off the floor.
• 7:56
  But I knew I had to be careful going down these steps.
• 8:00
  Because that was the tin foil was left on the steps.
• 8:02
  And it was really, really glaring.
• 8:04
  So I thought, just be very careful.
• 8:06
  So I might have looked cool, but I was just being careful.
• 8:08
  Is that partly why you had your shades on the iconic shades?
• 8:12
  Because you weren't just like hitting the eye by all this light.
• 8:16
  No, I thought, well, if you can't wear shades now,
• 8:18
  when can't you wear them?
• 8:20
  It's also wear them.
• 8:22
  They weren't the sonic glasses though.
• 8:24
  Not the sunglasses, not those particular shades.
• 8:26
  It was incredible to see.
• 8:28
  And, you know, the crowd clearly absolutely loved it.
• 8:32
  I mean, you know, just like I say,
• 8:34
  I can't imagine when it's been like,
• 8:36
  you see that reverb goes through your bones.
• 8:38
  And you just feel that.
• 8:40
  Imagine the adrenaline coming off of that stage afterwards.
• 8:42
  Imagine you were trembling with the adrenaline.
• 8:44
  I was, but I just went home.
• 8:46
  You know what, it's great.
• 8:48
  We did it very, we did it very well, I think.
• 8:50
  We just arrived two hours before the gig.
• 8:54
  We did our song, and then we left.
• 8:56
  I got a bit of the, you know,
• 8:58
  got a veggie burger and whatever,
• 9:00
  and hung around for a little while
• 9:02
  and saw some stars and stuff.
• 9:04
  But I'm, I was glad just to go and do that.
• 9:06
  And not be locked into whole,
• 9:08
  sympathetic weekend of carry on.
• 9:12
  Yeah. You mentioned there when you were talking about
• 9:14
  Franz Ferdinand and how they,
• 9:16
  they come out of that glass region sort of
• 9:18
  rock background.
• 9:20
  I mean, there's someone who's a fan of yours
• 9:22
  and who has, you know,
• 9:24
  aware of you and your work going right back to, you know,
• 9:26
  like, the stuff you did, obviously, back in the 80s
• 9:28
  and going before that back in the 70s
• 9:30
  when you were coming out of the same environment
• 9:32
  of working class Glasgow in that time,
• 9:34
  that sort of punk era.
• 9:36
  I'm fascinated to ask you about that,
• 9:38
  because it seems to me like we've had guests on this podcast
• 9:40
  before we've come from a similar milieu,
• 9:42
  and it's a great class region,
• 9:44
  right to a pros and comics.
• 9:46
  But they talk about how it was,
• 9:48
  it was quite a tough upbringing,
• 9:50
  that sort of time and place,
• 9:52
  but it was, it totally informs who they are
• 9:54
  in a really sort of rich way.
• 9:56
  And yeah, I was just curious to ask,
• 9:58
  like, how do you think growing up in that very fertile,
• 10:00
  creative environment of sort of west of Scotland
• 10:02
  in the 70s and 80s informed who you are
• 10:04
  and what you do?
• 10:06
  I think completely.
• 10:08
  But it was also, it's not just the case of being
• 10:10
  west of Scotland, it's the case of where it is in time as well.
• 10:14
  And people today don't realise how difficult it was to access.
• 10:20
  If you were interested in George Milio,
• 10:22
  the silent filmmaker,
• 10:24
  you couldn't go on YouTube
• 10:26
  and look up George Milio
• 10:28
  and find 12 documentaries about him
• 10:30
  and lots of clips of his films and stuff like that.
• 10:34
  You would have to go to a library
• 10:36
  and find a book
• 10:38
  and then you'd have to wait
• 10:40
  until there was perhaps a retrospective
• 10:42
  or something of his films
• 10:44
  that came maybe came to the Glasgow Film Theatre.
• 10:46
  So you did not have access to stuff.
• 10:50
  The means, the root to gaining access
• 10:54
  was a longer, harder one.
• 10:56
  And in that journey,
• 10:58
  you probably stumbled across a lot of things
• 11:00
  that you might not have been setting out to have a look at.
• 11:04
  But you ended up having a look at them.
• 11:06
  And you were interested in them.
• 11:08
  If you wanted to do it,
• 11:10
  if you wanted to be in a band,
• 11:12
  which I was in a band,
• 11:14
  and you weren't signed to any label or anything,
• 11:16
  the ethos of the time,
• 11:18
  I talked about that 1976,
• 11:20
  I went to art school then
• 11:22
  and that's when punk sort of exploded
• 11:26
  and with that came a sense that
• 11:30
  you were capable of having a girl.
• 11:34
  You should have a girl.
• 11:36
  It was your duty to have a girl.
• 11:38
  And this is what everyone did.
• 11:40
  But that meant you had to
• 11:42
  be in a band
• 11:44
  with to try and write songs.
• 11:46
  You had to try and you had to make posters.
• 11:48
  You had to put posters up.
• 11:50
  You had to record demos.
• 11:52
  A little sense.
• 11:54
  You had to go and find venues
• 11:58
  where you could play gigs.
• 12:00
  You had to go and meet the bar owners
• 12:02
  who used who ran those places.
• 12:04
  It was a kind of full-time job
• 12:06
  while being an art student.
• 12:08
  So I don't know whether,
• 12:10
  I mean, Glasgow has a kind of sort of
• 12:14
  it's quite a tough city.
• 12:18
  Of course it is because there's a lot of poverty.
• 12:20
  I don't think I came from my family
• 12:22
  where particularly tough.
• 12:24
  But they came from, you know,
• 12:26
  I was brought up in a tenement and all that kind of carry on.
• 12:28
  But then we moved out to the suburbs as people do.
• 12:30
  There's an attitude of
• 12:32
  preciousness about creativity.
• 12:36
  Because it's a little harder
• 12:40
  to come by or it's not around you so much.
• 12:44
  It's not in the culture so much.
• 12:46
  So those people who were creative
• 12:48
  and it's a hugely creative time.
• 12:50
  I think a lot of industrial times are like this.
• 12:54
  They kind of
• 12:56
  revere and nourish
• 13:00
  their own creatives.
• 13:02
  Because it's a sort of
• 13:04
  privilege and it's a sort of
• 13:08
  it has a rebelliousness in it.
• 13:12
  If everything's about work,
• 13:14
  if everything's about survival
• 13:16
  to be creative is to be
• 13:18
  different from that.
• 13:20
  And it's also
• 13:24
  what people deserve.
• 13:26
  But I think it was different times as well.
• 13:28
  I think people were.
• 13:30
  There was an excitement about
• 13:32
  having this full range of creativity
• 13:34
  possibly open to you.
• 13:36
  But it's a strange city.
• 13:38
  I mean it has a kind of
• 13:40
  I always think it's got a kind of
• 13:42
  sort of slightly
• 13:44
  noirish quality because as these
• 13:46
  old Victorian kind of buildings
• 13:48
  and then it has these rather
• 13:50
  brutal Soviet style kind of
• 13:52
  and there's a lot of
• 13:54
  horribleness and there's a lot of
• 13:56
  romanticism.
• 13:58
  So these are fair-tile grounds.
• 14:00
  Well that kind of sense of sort of
• 14:02
  brutalism, that quite urban
• 14:04
  sense of brutalism that you describe.
• 14:06
  And also that kind of romanticism,
• 14:08
  that kind of a slight sort of
• 14:10
  street magic quality.
• 14:12
  As I say as a fan, it's something that I see in your work
• 14:14
  that I feel in your work quite a lot.
• 14:16
  You're going to sweet illusions,
• 14:18
  your album, the lyrics
• 14:20
  about urban interpersonal
• 14:22
  situations between the characters and those songs.
• 14:24
  But also there's a fantastical kind of
• 14:26
  slightly cosmic edge.
• 14:28
  And I was curious actually to ask about that
• 14:30
  because how much of that sort of sense of
• 14:32
  the urban reality but also the cosmic
• 14:34
  kind of sheen to that, like looking
• 14:36
  out from that at the stars, if you like.
• 14:40
  How much do you think that was sort of
• 14:42
  born from the wellspring of your
• 14:44
  lifelong love of Doctor Who?
• 14:46
  Because as you know I think is quite well known
• 14:48
  to you as a child.
• 14:50
  I think it was possibly the other way around.
• 14:52
  You know, in the sense that I already
• 14:56
  had this imagination that was looking
• 15:00
  into these areas.
• 15:02
  And that came along.
• 15:04
  And then it fit it.
• 15:06
  But it was only one aspect of my
• 15:10
  imagination.
• 15:12
  I mean I think Doctor Who was very
• 15:14
  was and it's very special to me as
• 15:16
  a child who Mark Gator said to me
• 15:18
  or it runs very deep with you.
• 15:20
  Which is true because it goes
• 15:22
  right back to my childhood.
• 15:24
  You got to remember I was you know
• 15:26
  in the 60s the space races beginning.
• 15:28
  You know and the Beatles are blossoming.
• 15:30
  Now the whole world is kind of changing.
• 15:32
  And because I'm older and I can
• 15:34
  read history books I can see that
• 15:36
  there's a historical context to this
• 15:38
  there's a post-war effort
• 15:42
  to rebuild the world.
• 15:44
  In a better way.
• 15:46
  This has gone now.
• 15:48
  You know.
• 15:50
  But there was an ethos that
• 15:54
  was that went through the whole culture
• 15:56
  of trying to make a better place
• 16:00
  for everyone.
• 16:02
  And so all of this art began
• 16:06
  to happen and these changes
• 16:08
  in culture.
• 16:10
  And Doctor Who I just remember as a
• 16:12
  strange thing.
• 16:16
  As a strange kind of quite
• 16:18
  spooky and
• 16:20
  but quite magical thing.
• 16:22
  So yeah I was very very taken with it.
• 16:26
  But I also think it became sort of
• 16:28
  when I became Doctor Who it sort of
• 16:30
  becomes
• 16:32
  your personal relationship
• 16:34
  where it becomes irrelevant
• 16:36
  because you're the sort of
• 16:38
  the face of a brand
• 16:40
  which is not my relationship
• 16:42
  with it.
• 16:44
  But that's what you can't.
• 16:46
  So it becomes slightly trickier
• 16:48
  more trying to protect your own
• 16:50
  relationship with it.
• 16:52
  While also selling it
• 16:54
  and also keeping everybody
• 16:56
  in work down a cardiff
• 16:58
  and having the responsibilities
• 17:00
  to keep the show
• 17:02
  well.
• 17:04
  It's slightly different.
• 17:06
  So you say that being sort of
• 17:08
  that show is huge.
• 17:10
  Obviously it's huge.
• 17:12
  It's a phenomenon that that show.
• 17:14
  People in this country
• 17:16
  and now people around the world
• 17:18
  have that show.
• 17:20
  You've taken that show
• 17:22
  around the world.
• 17:24
  You've told it practically
• 17:26
  when you were the Doctor.
• 17:28
  Obviously being such a fan
• 17:30
  from such an early age.
• 17:32
  And then as you say now being
• 17:34
  the figurehead of that brand.
• 17:36
  Is that what you're saying?
• 17:38
  Yeah.
• 17:40
  When I'm saying that I
• 17:42
  you know my relationship
• 17:44
  with it is a personal one.
• 17:46
  It's what I loved when I was a kid.
• 17:48
  I didn't
• 17:50
  say when I was a kid going
• 17:52
  ought to be great to take this one
• 17:54
  of the world to sell it in territories
• 17:56
  and get rid of
• 17:58
  timescovers and
• 18:00
  make a lot of money.
• 18:02
  The show became very, very big.
• 18:04
  So it was a different,
• 18:06
  became a different thing.
• 18:08
  I think the responsibilities
• 18:10
  of playing the part
• 18:12
  became more.
• 18:14
  There were more things
• 18:16
  that you had to do rather than just
• 18:18
  I mean I think in the old days
• 18:20
  you know if you were
• 18:22
  John Pertouille or Tom Baker
• 18:24
  or somebody like you probably
• 18:26
  you spend most of your year
• 18:28
  making it.
• 18:30
  And then a billion-year promoting it.
• 18:32
  Suddenly it was really important to
• 18:34
  the BBC
• 18:36
  or suddenly really important to
• 18:38
  a brand that had to be maintained.
• 18:40
  It was just a show
• 18:42
  that some kids really loved
• 18:44
  and other kids didn't care about
• 18:46
  wanting to watch football
• 18:48
  or you grew old.
• 18:50
  It became this sort of
• 18:52
  very important thing.
• 18:54
  I think less in a cultural way
• 18:56
  and more in an
• 18:58
  economic way.
• 19:00
  It was the first sort of
• 19:02
  took on the role.
• 19:04
  I mean did you
• 19:06
  in that sense with everything you said?
• 19:08
  Did you know what you were getting into?
• 19:10
  I mean obviously Matt and David
• 19:12
  and Chris had shoulder
• 19:14
  that responsibility
• 19:16
  in the years running up to you going on.
• 19:18
  Did they sort of
• 19:20
  prep you at all?
• 19:22
  Did you know what you were getting into
• 19:24
  in that regard?
• 19:26
  Well Matt and David were
• 19:28
  really quite
• 19:30
  what he meant.
• 19:32
  But I just meant you were
• 19:34
  suddenly people just
• 19:36
  recognized you all the time.
• 19:38
  Which was quite nice.
• 19:40
  I mean it was a little scary.
• 19:42
  It was scary.
• 19:44
  It was scary because I knew
• 19:46
  that life would change
• 19:48
  in some way.
• 19:50
  And it's a genie once that's out of the bottle
• 19:52
  you can't put it back.
• 19:54
  So if you lose your privacy to that degree
• 19:56
  of feeling it makes you feel quite
• 19:58
  vulnerable.
• 20:00
  But I was lucky that I was older.
• 20:02
  I wasn't a young actor who was
• 20:04
  still had a huge career
• 20:06
  that they wanted to pursue
• 20:08
  or was going to clubs or pubs
• 20:10
  or anything like that.
• 20:12
  I was quite, you know,
• 20:14
  and remained quite a dull person
• 20:16
  in that respect.
• 20:18
  So there was nothing really.
• 20:20
  I used to have press sitting outside my house
• 20:22
  and paparazzi and all that.
• 20:24
  She's for the tea.
• 20:26
  So they got fed up with that.
• 20:28
  But it is very exposing.
• 20:30
  It makes you feel quite vulnerable.
• 20:32
  But it's also delightful.
• 20:34
  It's absolutely wonderful
• 20:36
  to have people
• 20:38
  look on you as
• 20:40
  doctor who
• 20:42
  and smile at you
• 20:44
  and be cheered up
• 20:46
  by your presence.
• 20:48
  And you don't want to disappoint people.
• 20:50
  That becomes a little bit of a
• 20:52
  strange thing.
• 20:54
  Because you don't want people to be
• 20:56
  mad, said that to me.
• 20:58
  You don't want them to be the one
• 21:00
  that the kid
• 21:02
  goes on. He was horrible.
• 21:04
  I don't love doctor who
• 21:06
  but he was horrible.
• 21:08
  Which Matt would never ever be.
• 21:10
  You've always got that in the back.
• 21:12
  You're here.
• 21:14
  You know, if you're not very pleasant,
• 21:16
  then that will be toxic
• 21:18
  material that will be
• 21:20
  used.
• 21:22
  You know, the responsibility of the role.
• 21:24
  Not just as an actor.
• 21:26
  But as you say, as the figure head of a brand.
• 21:28
  I think it's being kind of quite
• 21:30
  in the conversation at the moment.
• 21:32
  What with the sort of where doctor is now.
• 21:34
  It is a lot of responsibility.
• 21:36
  And I think you're like, it's not for everyone.
• 21:38
  And Richard Osmond was talking about it on his podcast.
• 21:40
  Then how maybe they were wondering whether
• 21:42
  shoot it.
• 21:44
  Who's brilliant.
• 21:46
  A huge fan of shoot.
• 21:48
  He was a cognizant perhaps
• 21:50
  when he took on the role of all of that.
• 21:52
  Maybe it was a lot.
• 21:54
  What are your thoughts on that?
• 21:56
  Do you feel like it's good to be prepped?
• 21:58
  You'd need to know.
• 22:00
  I don't think they can prep you really.
• 22:02
  Because it's also about being famous.
• 22:04
  If you're not famous, then you're suddenly famous.
• 22:06
  I mean, I was well known but not famous to that degree.
• 22:08
  That's a whole different ballgame.
• 22:12
  It changes things.
• 22:14
  Trichy's great.
• 22:16
  I think it's wonderful.
• 22:18
  It's a tough job.
• 22:20
  You do whatever you feel is right.
• 22:22
  I think he's a brilliant doctor.
• 22:24
  I don't know.
• 22:26
  Sometimes I think it's a little bit of a victim of its success.
• 22:34
  The show that I loved was
• 22:38
  a tiny thing.
• 22:40
  A small thing that survived.
• 22:42
  It just survived.
• 22:44
  And then it didn't.
• 22:46
  But nobody knew that it was
• 22:48
  warming its way
• 22:50
  into the culture in such a deep way.
• 22:54
  And I think that's what I
• 22:56
  have an affinity with this.
• 22:58
  Well, Matt used to talk about it.
• 23:00
  There's the knock-on.
• 23:02
  There's the...
• 23:04
  Because you go, you do, you film
• 23:06
  and you get half an hour for lunch
• 23:08
  or shall I eat lunch or shall I try and sleep?
• 23:10
  Or you go to a trailer
• 23:12
  and then there's...
• 23:14
  And there's somebody there who says,
• 23:16
  you know, an MP's just arrived
• 23:18
  with his children kind of
• 23:20
  to visit the Tartis.
• 23:22
  Would you like to show them around?
• 23:24
  Well, you've got to control them around.
• 23:26
  Or then there's...
• 23:28
  Here's some new doctor figures.
• 23:30
  Would you like to approve these?
• 23:32
  Okay.
• 23:34
  And this goes in.
• 23:36
  On and on and on and on and on.
• 23:38
  And then when you finish filming
• 23:42
  there's a...
• 23:44
  You're sort of given a schedule for
• 23:46
  what promotional riget is.
• 23:48
  Yes, it's great going around the world.
• 23:50
  You go, we've talked to all of these people
• 23:52
  and them all morning.
• 23:54
  So, you know, it's tough.
• 23:56
  But it's great.
• 23:58
  You know, I'm not complaining about it
• 24:00
  because it was blissful as well.
• 24:04
  To be the center of attention for so long.
• 24:08
  And, you know, I liked it.
• 24:10
  I don't...
• 24:12
  I think there's a...
• 24:14
  You'd run out of energy eventually.
• 24:18
  I think it would be...
• 24:20
  It would crush you.
• 24:22
  In terms of...
• 24:24
  Because you also have to do...
• 24:26
  To me, the most important thing is doing the show.
• 24:28
  And that was a lot of work.
• 24:30
  It was wonderful work.
• 24:32
  You learn all those lines.
• 24:34
  And you literally could not...
• 24:36
  There wasn't enough time to learn all the lines.
• 24:38
  So, you're most basic thing as an actor,
• 24:40
  which is, you know, you learn your lines.
• 24:42
  You turn up and you deliver them.
• 24:44
  You couldn't do.
• 24:46
  Because by Thursday,
• 24:48
  you know, lots of rewrites.
• 24:50
  By Thursday, by Friday,
• 24:52
  I no longer had a grasp of the lines.
• 24:54
  So, I had to apologize to people in the morning
• 24:56
  and say, look, I don't really...
• 24:58
  Can we stick them up?
• 25:00
  The Tardas Scanner.
• 25:02
  Then I discovered that that was a long standing.
• 25:04
  A tradition among doctors.
• 25:06
  Going back to the beginning.
• 25:08
  Of having bits of your script stuck...
• 25:10
  Stuck on the Tardas.
• 25:12
  But it's not that I don't like that.
• 25:14
  You know, I don't like that.
• 25:16
  I'd rather have a grasp of the whole thing.
• 25:18
  Sure. And was it just because
• 25:20
  the scripts are coming in quite thick and fast?
• 25:22
  Are they being rewritten or...?
• 25:24
  It's just that they're substantial.
• 25:26
  The doctor's a huge part.
• 25:28
  You have to find a way
• 25:30
  to do those speeches
• 25:32
  that is different.
• 25:34
  You can't just stand there
• 25:36
  and present this information.
• 25:38
  Because essentially that's what you're doing.
• 25:40
  It's presenting this information to get the plot moving.
• 25:42
  But you can't do that.
• 25:44
  You have to find a way
• 25:46
  to illuminate them
• 25:48
  or to make them more interesting
• 25:50
  or make them...
• 25:52
  You have to be an entertainer.
• 25:54
  You've got to come up with ideas
• 25:56
  so it takes a while.
• 25:58
  I mean, speaking of, I guess, long speeches
• 26:00
  and dialogue and scripts.
• 26:02
  And also, kind of talking about
• 26:04
  what you mentioned, what you said about
• 26:06
  Doctor being a brand.
• 26:08
  So at the time of recording this,
• 26:10
  next week will be the 10th anniversary of
• 26:12
  the episode heaven sent
• 26:14
  of series nine,
• 26:16
  which has kind of over the last 10 years
• 26:18
  has kind of become one of the most
• 26:20
  not the most beloved episode of Doctor
• 26:22
  who by many of the fans.
• 26:24
  As their favorite episode of the whole show
• 26:26
  going back to the 60s.
• 26:28
  And that's an episode
• 26:30
  just to give anyone who hasn't seen it an idea.
• 26:32
  That episode is...
• 26:34
  Your doctor is trapped in
• 26:36
  a kind of literal and figurative castle of grief
• 26:40
  on his own with no, you know, no companion,
• 26:42
  nobody to talk to other than himself.
• 26:44
  And he's been pursued by this sort of
• 26:46
  being sort of, you know, symbolic of death.
• 26:50
  And you've talked before about how
• 26:52
  when you're sort of promoting Doctor,
• 26:54
  like you say, like, you have to promote it
• 26:56
  as the figure out of a brand.
• 26:58
  But something that appeals to you about it
• 27:00
  seems to me that you've talked about
• 27:02
  of the show is the theme of death.
• 27:04
  There is a real motif in the show
• 27:06
  because you have the Doctor as a character
• 27:08
  who dies, you know, constantly.
• 27:10
  And then he regenerates, he renews himself
• 27:12
  and comes back as a new person.
• 27:14
  And you've talked before about how
• 27:16
  that's a really important theme for
• 27:18
  children who watch the show.
• 27:20
  A primer for that idea.
• 27:22
  And it's something that enriches the whole story
• 27:24
  of that show.
• 27:26
  And I just wanted to ask as someone who is, you know,
• 27:28
  hands up a big fan of not only your run,
• 27:30
  but that episode.
• 27:32
  It's a really sort of special episode to me personally.
• 27:34
  What are your thoughts reflecting on that episode
• 27:36
  10 years on?
• 27:38
  I loved doing it.
• 27:40
  It was a surprise.
• 27:42
  Well, other people seem to know before me.
• 27:44
  Before I think Jenner said,
• 27:45
  you know, they're going to do an episode
• 27:46
  which is just you.
• 27:48
  They said, yeah, I think that's what they've got planned.
• 27:50
  And I just even said, yeah,
• 27:52
  we're going to do one which is just the doctor.
• 27:54
  I was sort of fascinated
• 27:55
  as to what that, I could no idea what that could be.
• 27:58
  Because he didn't really explain it to me, tellable.
• 28:02
  But then when it came along,
• 28:04
  I didn't seek to understand it.
• 28:08
  You know, we were very lucky
• 28:10
  in that we had Rachel Talilei,
• 28:14
  who directed it as a wonderful, wonderful director.
• 28:16
  We didn't have very much time.
• 28:18
  Now, not much time to direct.
• 28:20
  We did an episode in like 10 days or something.
• 28:24
  We knew that there were many levels in it.
• 28:28
  But we couldn't.
• 28:30
  We had to trust each other
• 28:32
  to look after our levels,
• 28:34
  the bits that were our responsibility.
• 28:38
  So my responsibility would be
• 28:42
  how to deliver these lines truthfully and effectively.
• 28:46
  And with enough resonance
• 28:48
  that they might touch the sides
• 28:50
  of the mystery of the whole thing.
• 28:54
  What it was really about.
• 28:56
  Because in the end,
• 28:58
  you might have to come to your own opinion about that.
• 29:02
  It's like a piece of music.
• 29:04
  It was reflective.
• 29:06
  It was philosophical.
• 29:08
  It was about being alive and being dead.
• 29:14
  But it's also a monster movie.
• 29:18
  Because I remember,
• 29:20
  because I walked onto the set,
• 29:22
  there's the castle,
• 29:24
  and then there's the graveyard where he's digging the grave.
• 29:26
  I said, this is like a Roger Coleman movie.
• 29:28
  Roger Coleman.
• 29:30
  You know who Roger Coleman is?
• 29:32
  Just in case of you.
• 29:34
  Viewers might not.
• 29:36
  They had got Alan Paul adaptations
• 29:38
  with Vincent Price beginning with the fall of the House of Usher.
• 29:42
  The pendulum.
• 29:44
  All of those things.
• 29:46
  And they were very vividly coloured
• 29:48
  but quite economically designed
• 29:50
  because they didn't have a lot of money.
• 29:52
  Because he was famous for making films very, very cheaply
• 29:54
  and making a lot of B movies and all that stuff.
• 29:56
  But also started the career of Mark Scorsese in Francis Ford Coppola.
• 30:00
  And ironically Rachel had worked for him.
• 30:02
  I said, this is like a Roger Coleman movie.
• 30:04
  And she said, yeah, that's what we're trying to do.
• 30:06
  Just to make this like,
• 30:08
  because it's the castle,
• 30:10
  the kind of gothic castle,
• 30:12
  and then the green kind of slightly a Hollywood-y kind of graveyard.
• 30:16
  And Stephen said, yeah, that's right.
• 30:18
  Because he put that.
• 30:20
  And I don't know what that,
• 30:22
  that's another thing of the way culture and imagination works.
• 30:26
  That American idea of a European horror story.
• 30:30
  Mind you know, it got in Poets American.
• 30:34
  It's neat.
• 30:36
  So I was thinking more of a Dracula orientated thing there,
• 30:38
  in which is a European horror story filtered through American eyes.
• 30:44
  Well, I think there's something interesting about how American eyes
• 30:48
  looking at European kind of iconography.
• 30:50
  Like one of my favourite films,
• 30:52
  are films made by British films
• 30:54
  or films made about Britain
• 30:56
  but made by American directors.
• 30:58
  So pop a orange by Kubrick,
• 31:00
  who American, but very much about Britain in the 70s.
• 31:02
  Or Phantom Fred,
• 31:04
  you know, Paul Thomas Anderson,
• 31:06
  you know, Daniel Day Lewis playing this very sort of upper crust.
• 31:08
  You know, Fitzrovia,
• 31:10
  Fitzrovia Taylor,
• 31:12
  Terry Gilliams Brazil,
• 31:14
  being an outsider.
• 31:16
  And you can see something totally objectively in a lot of ways.
• 31:18
  I think if you're a filmmaker or just as an artist,
• 31:20
  you can then appraise it in a way that is almost heightened.
• 31:24
  And I feel like maybe that was what Rachel was doing with the episode.
• 31:26
  She was coming at it with those kind of external eyes.
• 31:30
  And she's very clever and she has a real,
• 31:32
  but she's a real director, so she has a vision.
• 31:34
  So when I say that,
• 31:36
  I mean, there is a kind of,
• 31:38
  you know, a lot of directors just really come in
• 31:40
  and do a wide shot to cover everything and then do close-ups.
• 31:44
  You know, and that's fine.
• 31:46
  That's doing the job as well.
• 31:48
  But some people come in with a visual idea
• 31:52
  and expression of a deeper resonance in the scene.
• 31:56
  And that's what Rachel does,
• 31:58
  which is fabulous.
• 32:00
  And to me, that's what a director does,
• 32:02
  is they tell the story in their way.
• 32:06
  But it was an extra, I mean,
• 32:08
  the big trouble with having sent was in the middle of it,
• 32:12
  this is part of the branding.
• 32:14
  I had to go to San Diego to do,
• 32:16
  so we stopped for a weekend.
• 32:20
  And I had to go and promote Doctor Who in America
• 32:24
  for three or four days,
• 32:26
  which was very cruel because
• 32:28
  America's full of pancakes and pastries
• 32:30
  and all delicious things that I'd like to eat,
• 32:32
  which I couldn't eat.
• 32:34
  Otherwise, I'd come back to a poor care version of myself.
• 32:38
  But it was really, I was sick of my own voice at the end of it.
• 32:40
  I was desperate to hear another actor.
• 32:42
  I was desperate to,
• 32:44
  because also you bounce off the other actors.
• 32:48
  You never go in, you know,
• 32:50
  I like to prepare very thoroughly.
• 32:52
  But part of that preparation
• 32:54
  is knowing that everything will change.
• 32:56
  Because the other actors never say things
• 32:58
  the way you thought they would say them.
• 33:00
  Which is brilliant.
• 33:02
  They totally surprise you so that
• 33:04
  then changes what your preparation is
• 33:06
  and how you
• 33:08
  want to deliver your lines.
• 33:10
  So there weren't any other actors.
• 33:12
  So that was hard.
• 33:14
  I was sick of hearing me.
• 33:16
  But it was very,
• 33:18
  it was very intense because
• 33:20
  Rachel and I would hunk her down
• 33:22
  between scenes and takes
• 33:24
  to try and figure out what was going on
• 33:26
  in the next scene and how to do it.
• 33:28
  It was also great
• 33:30
  to be with the crew
• 33:32
  who I knew the crew really well
• 33:34
  from obviously I don't like two years by that time.
• 33:38
  But they make it.
• 33:40
  They made the show and they made that episode.
• 33:44
  And we all worked so closely with each other.
• 33:46
  Because we could.
• 33:48
  There were no other actors to distract us.
• 33:50
  We were all with the camera and sound
• 33:52
  and everything and design.
• 33:54
  I felt very much
• 33:56
  a part of that whole team.
• 33:58
  So it's unusual
• 34:00
  in that respect.
• 34:02
  Well, it's interesting to me
• 34:04
  fascinating actually what you say about how
• 34:06
  because of course not to the production schedule is so fast
• 34:08
  like you say you're shooting an episode
• 34:10
  on average in 10 days.
• 34:12
  And about heaven sent in particular is that
• 34:14
  it does not feel like that at all.
• 34:16
  It feels like it was made with all the time in the world.
• 34:18
  Like there are some of the stuff that Rachel and you
• 34:20
  like the interplay between her as a director
• 34:22
  and you as an actor are doing.
• 34:24
  There are shots in that episode where you're walking down
• 34:26
  those kind of those long sort of
• 34:28
  gothic corridors.
• 34:30
  And you know, you sit away and buy all this
• 34:32
  this golden light.
• 34:34
  And it's so precise and formal.
• 34:36
  It's a formal lot to episode.
• 34:38
  It's like you say it's philosophical in it.
• 34:40
  The show has come to a kind of art house
• 34:42
  sort of episode in the way
• 34:44
  it's very stripped down and it's obviously
• 34:46
  it's a one-hander and it's very
• 34:48
  gothic and heightened.
• 34:50
  And as I said before, for me personally
• 34:52
  the episode has a lot of resonance because
• 34:54
  when it first came out
• 34:56
  to my grandparents died
• 34:58
  quite close to when it came out, you know, within weeks
• 35:00
  of each other actually.
• 35:02
  And the episode is such a profound sort of
• 35:04
  story and meditation on grief.
• 35:06
  Yeah.
• 35:08
  Going back to it a lot.
• 35:10
  And I found it really helped.
• 35:12
  It did one of those great things that I think
• 35:14
  a film or a TV show or a book or a piece of art can do
• 35:16
  is that it can help you through some of that.
• 35:18
  Yeah.
• 35:20
  That, you know, those struggles.
• 35:22
  And yeah.
• 35:24
  Yeah, I think, you know, it's Stevens
• 35:26
  episode, you know.
• 35:28
  And it's his
• 35:32
  story and his
• 35:34
  all of those things that you
• 35:36
  know.
• 35:38
  You know, you know, the greatest
• 35:40
  compliment should be paid to him really
• 35:42
  because that's
• 35:44
  it was a unique
• 35:46
  episode.
• 35:48
  And also in the sense that it's sort of
• 35:50
  reached outside of
• 35:52
  Doctor, you know,
• 35:54
  and into a kind of deeper sort of
• 35:58
  level.
• 36:00
  And that's all him.
• 36:02
  It's all there, you know, in the script.
• 36:04
  In the foundations.
• 36:06
  But then, of course, it is you and Rachel
• 36:08
  and Marie Gold as well, the composer bringing
• 36:10
  that and the crew, bringing that to life
• 36:12
  and making it
• 36:14
  hit home emotionally.
• 36:16
  It was great, great fun.
• 36:18
  Yeah. I mean, it's something that I'd like to ask you about.
• 36:20
  It was your sort of approach to acting
• 36:22
  because you seem to me to be a great sort of
• 36:24
  practitioner of showing,
• 36:26
  show, don't tell as an actor,
• 36:28
  giving across all these subtleties
• 36:30
  and nuances of a character that you're playing.
• 36:32
  It's not being too explicit and broad about it.
• 36:34
  And I see that with Malcolm Tucker.
• 36:36
  I see that in the sort of humanity
• 36:38
  that is sort of laced in there.
• 36:40
  All these little signs that, you know,
• 36:42
  the, the, the utilances that he gives,
• 36:44
  the how he treats his assistant Sam in that show
• 36:46
  and the thick of it, you know, all that he's very kind to her.
• 36:48
  But he's obviously with a lot of the other characters
• 36:50
  he's very quite bullish.
• 36:52
  And an doctor who as well, I mean,
• 36:54
  something that's faster to be about your doctor
• 36:56
  is the fact that almost from the beginning,
• 36:58
  it feels like you've even, even in what he's wearing,
• 37:00
  you've kind of codified so much of the character.
• 37:02
  Because I want to say you picked out,
• 37:04
  did you design the look of your doctor, right?
• 37:06
  The sort of the David Lynch sort of buttoned up shirt
• 37:08
  and everything boots.
• 37:10
  Amy, it was a struggle.
• 37:12
  Because everybody,
• 37:14
  the worst thing about doctors is everybody's got an opinion.
• 37:18
  So you've got to go through all of these hoops
• 37:22
  and now you've got to please everybody.
• 37:24
  And also you're the new guy or the new girl,
• 37:26
  you know, you're the new person there
• 37:28
  and the costume is so important to them.
• 37:30
  And some of the things they come up with are just, you know,
• 37:36
  I can't wear that, I can't wear that,
• 37:38
  I can't wear that, I can't wear that, I can't wear that.
• 37:40
  And I didn't, you know,
• 37:42
  and then you go to a warehouse and you dress up
• 37:44
  and all these kind of things.
• 37:46
  You just have to go through these motions of
• 37:48
  dressing up in these.
• 37:50
  And people do suggest scoffs, you know,
• 37:52
  velvet jackets which I ended up in and all that stuff.
• 37:56
  But I just wanted to be very,
• 37:58
  I wanted to reach back
• 38:00
  to the earlier days of the show
• 38:04
  that I remember as a kid,
• 38:06
  which were in black and white, obviously.
• 38:08
  So I wanted a black and white costume,
• 38:10
  which they didn't like at all,
• 38:12
  because they, they're like color.
• 38:14
  I struggled.
• 38:16
  I actually went to,
• 38:18
  to Paul Smith, the designer.
• 38:20
  Yeah, you're friendly with him,
• 38:22
  I want to say, right?
• 38:24
  I'm going to go to the show.
• 38:26
  Well, he's brilliant.
• 38:30
  I said, I just really think
• 38:34
  it needs to be something quite
• 38:36
  cool looking, but quite dark.
• 38:38
  And he just had a workshop,
• 38:40
  we went into workshop and we
• 38:42
  and they had some,
• 38:44
  because he has designers that he works with
• 38:46
  and they had some things lying around.
• 38:48
  And we put those things together
• 38:50
  and they did it.
• 38:52
  They, they, they had a
• 38:54
  longish kind of, it's like
• 38:56
  crumbish kind of jacket
• 38:58
  and I think we had a sporty shirt
• 39:00
  and what was,
• 39:02
  but they did it.
• 39:04
  And I remember, because we took some
• 39:06
  photographs of it at the time.
• 39:08
  Well, that's it.
• 39:10
  That makes me feel like Doctor Who.
• 39:12
  So then we had to try and translate that
• 39:14
  into the mechanics of the show.
• 39:16
  I liked that, that, that more
• 39:18
  formal old fashioned,
• 39:20
  but it's hard to maintain, because
• 39:22
  everybody comes along.
• 39:24
  Everybody who's new in the show
• 39:26
  wants to do a new thing with it.
• 39:28
  He has a new jacket or he has
• 39:30
  a new pair of trousers.
• 39:32
  He has a new look.
• 39:34
  I'm the new designer.
• 39:36
  He has a new thing.
• 39:38
  Well, I don't want a new thing.
• 39:40
  Like I said, there's almost something,
• 39:42
  almost kind of David Lynchy and all that stuff
• 39:44
  just with a buttoned up shirt
• 39:46
  because which horrified people.
• 39:48
  Because they want the thing
• 39:50
  that we can't sell that, really.
• 39:52
  Well, I mean, it's so striking.
• 39:54
  Well, I saw a little, I thought, I was
• 39:56
  clear and set that up.
• 39:58
  My little office at the end of fun,
• 40:00
  this little figure.
• 40:02
  I think it was the first figure they made of me.
• 40:04
  And I just got this white shirt
• 40:06
  and it's black trousers and black trousers.
• 40:08
  They must have been horrified.
• 40:10
  But how are we going to sell this?
• 40:12
  Cut me a bit multicolored dots all over this.
• 40:14
  I give them a sweet jacket at least.
• 40:16
  But the earlier incarnations of all the best.
• 40:20
  But it's so difficult.
• 40:22
  In any kind of filmmaking,
• 40:24
  it's so difficult to keep an idea pure.
• 40:26
  Because it can't get mediated through the
• 40:28
  completely. Because people turn up
• 40:30
  with other ideas.
• 40:32
  And I think it was Kubrick said that,
• 40:34
  I can't remember the quote exactly.
• 40:36
  But more or less he's saying,
• 40:38
  the only way you will be
• 40:40
  a director of any worth
• 40:42
  is if you resist with every fiber of your being.
• 40:44
  Anybody else's idea.
• 40:46
  And of course, it's a difficult thing
• 40:48
  because you also have to be
• 40:50
  open to other people's ideas.
• 40:52
  Because sometimes,
• 40:54
  and often, their ideas are better.
• 40:56
  So you've got to create an environment
• 40:58
  where a better idea
• 41:00
  no matter where it comes from,
• 41:02
  can be deployed.
• 41:04
  But you also have to be strong enough
• 41:06
  to batter off or invite it in.
• 41:08
  And you also got to look after people's feelings.
• 41:10
  You know,
• 41:12
  or you can't go or that's shared.
• 41:14
  It's got all that's great.
• 41:16
  Yeah, I wonder,
• 41:18
  will that work? I'm not sure.
• 41:20
  Let me try it. We'll try it.
• 41:22
  Give it a go.
• 41:24
  As people do to me,
• 41:26
  if I've got an idea.
• 41:28
  I mean, it's interesting you're talking about acting.
• 41:30
  And acting to me is,
• 41:32
  I never went to drama school.
• 41:34
  So I was rejected from drama school.
• 41:36
  So I always felt
• 41:38
  lacking in the acting department.
• 41:40
  But I liked the idea of acting.
• 41:42
  And I enjoyed doing it.
• 41:44
  But I've been so terrible in so many things.
• 41:46
  And that's where I've learnt
• 41:48
  is by being so terrible.
• 41:50
  And just keep it on coming back.
• 41:54
  And I still don't really know
• 41:56
  how to do it.
• 41:58
  I'm not being facetious by saying that.
• 42:00
  And obviously, I have a process that I engage in.
• 42:04
  If I've got work to do.
• 42:06
  If I've got a job to do.
• 42:08
  But there's a kind of mystery in it that I don't.
• 42:12
  That is right. It's right.
• 42:14
  All art should have a mystery in it.
• 42:16
  So if you very kindly said
• 42:20
  some nice things about me.
• 42:22
  And if those things have worked,
• 42:24
  I'm not really quite sure how I made that happen.
• 42:26
  Do you know what I mean?
• 42:28
  But there's a zone you can reach
• 42:30
  where you are things begin to move
• 42:32
  in your head.
• 42:34
  And through your eyes.
• 42:36
  That are slightly outside of your control.
• 42:40
  And sometimes the camera can see
• 42:44
  that and can interpret it
• 42:48
  in a way that is useful.
• 42:50
  But also a lot of it is editing.
• 42:52
  And what you don't see are all the terrible takes.
• 42:54
  And all the bits were mugging.
• 42:56
  And well,
• 42:58
  like a kind of a pantomime performer.
• 43:00
  And that's one of the great things about doing a job
• 43:04
  that you've just asked your collaborators
• 43:08
  for this doctor or the thick of it.
• 43:10
  You're allowed to be terrible.
• 43:12
  You've got to have the courage to be terrible.
• 43:16
  And I have been terrible.
• 43:18
  And we'll be again.
• 43:20
  But it's in that.
• 43:22
  It's in the leap to try and get other place.
• 43:24
  Which might be a terrible place
• 43:26
  in that journey,
• 43:28
  things emerge, some of which are good.
• 43:30
  But if you have a director
• 43:32
  and recognize that or who doesn't use it in the edit.
• 43:34
  And it's a problem.
• 43:36
  Because I've done things where I thought I was okay
• 43:38
  and they've picked all the worst takes of me.
• 43:40
  And I look terrible.
• 43:42
  And they haven't used the bits where I was a bit better.
• 43:44
  But I love it.
• 43:46
  And I still love trying to do it.
• 43:48
  And I love working with people.
• 43:50
  And when we did a criminal record,
• 43:52
  which is the thing we're sure we do for Apple,
• 43:54
  on the first season,
• 43:56
  the wonderful director called Sean James Grant
• 43:58
  who is a brilliant young director.
• 44:00
  And we do.
• 44:02
  We used to do takes where, you know,
• 44:04
  we're an episodic television.
• 44:06
  Our job is to tell this story
• 44:08
  and get it done by the end of the day.
• 44:10
  Deliver the show by February or whatever it is.
• 44:12
  Has to be done.
• 44:14
  So you do takes where you tell the story.
• 44:16
  And then sometimes we say,
• 44:18
  okay, can we do one?
• 44:20
  We don't know what's going to happen.
• 44:22
  Can I do one now with nothing going on?
• 44:24
  That's never nothing going on.
• 44:26
  Even when you're trying to do nothing.
• 44:28
  Going on.
• 44:30
  So sometimes when you're trying to do nothing,
• 44:32
  you try not to tell the story.
• 44:34
  The words tell the story.
• 44:36
  That's one of the key things that I learned
• 44:38
  was the words tell the story.
• 44:40
  I don't like when actors come in and they say,
• 44:42
  oh, I'd like to change these words
• 44:44
  because I don't think that's what the character would say.
• 44:46
  Well, this is not how the story would work.
• 44:48
  I think my character would say this.
• 44:50
  And my character would say that.
• 44:52
  If you have to change the words
• 44:54
  to tell the story,
• 44:56
  it's the right one.
• 44:58
  You're not as good an actor as you should be.
• 45:00
  Because you have all these other tools
• 45:02
  with which to tell the story.
• 45:04
  The words,
• 45:06
  that's just the surface of it.
• 45:08
  At the same time,
• 45:10
  sometimes the words are terrible.
• 45:12
  And you have to do a bit more work.
• 45:14
  You have to do a bit more work one time.
• 45:16
  I mean, with something like criminal record then,
• 45:18
  which you're obviously the star of,
• 45:20
  but also producer on.
• 45:22
  I mean, what you just said there about how
• 45:24
  you want to be a producer on that show.
• 45:26
  It is one of the reasons,
• 45:28
  but I mean, the main reason is my wife
• 45:30
  is the executive producer.
• 45:32
  So she has produced,
• 45:34
  I'm not that she has any particular interest in crying.
• 45:38
  But she's a producer.
• 45:40
  She's a producer.
• 45:42
  She's a producer.
• 45:44
  She's a producer.
• 45:46
  She's a producer.
• 45:48
  She's a producer.
• 45:50
  Not that she has any particular interest in crying.
• 45:54
  But she was the first producer
• 45:56
  and pulled together and created Vera
• 45:58
  and Shatland and those shows.
• 46:02
  But she didn't make any money from those
• 46:04
  because she was just on the payroll.
• 46:08
  So she wanted to put together a show
• 46:10
  that was about a specific thing.
• 46:14
  And she asked me if I would be interested in doing this part.
• 46:18
  Because it was an idea that she had about
• 46:22
  about why people will admit to things
• 46:26
  that they're not guilty of.
• 46:28
  You'll say they're guilty of something.
• 46:30
  And she looked into that a lot.
• 46:32
  So she developed this story
• 46:34
  and then she said, well, there's this character.
• 46:38
  I think it would be...
• 46:40
  And I said, oh, well, that sounds great.
• 46:42
  Yeah, let's do that.
• 46:44
  She hadn't sold the show yet.
• 46:46
  Selling the show.
• 46:48
  And I also began to see it more vividly.
• 46:50
  I began to see what I thought it should look like.
• 46:54
  So I became more and more involved in how it might be
• 46:58
  as a show.
• 47:00
  So it became natural that I would be
• 47:02
  take on a role
• 47:04
  to push it along those areas
• 47:06
  which is a kind of executive producer role.
• 47:08
  But as it ends up, I end up...
• 47:10
  Yeah, I do
• 47:12
  get to look at my takes.
• 47:14
  I think it's not really my job to look after
• 47:18
  to stick my nose into other actors' business.
• 47:20
  So I try to step away from that.
• 47:22
  But I will look at my takes
• 47:24
  and think, oh, that's not good or that is good.
• 47:26
  So I do have more of a say in that.
• 47:30
  What at the same time try to maintain a distance?
• 47:32
  Because you are a filmmaker.
• 47:34
  It must be said.
• 47:36
  For anyone who's not aware,
• 47:38
  you're an Oscar-winning filmmaker.
• 47:40
  You're short from from the 90s.
• 47:42
  It's actually Grant, which is brilliant.
• 47:44
  One, you know, after an Oscar.
• 47:46
  You know, I rewatched it again over the weekend.
• 47:48
  It's lovely. It holds up.
• 47:50
  You directed Stretly Sinatra as well.
• 47:52
  Your film from 2001.
• 47:54
  I want to say early noughties.
• 47:56
  And then you worked with Joe Brandon getting on.
• 47:58
  And you're someone who's clearly
• 48:00
  has such a strong finger on the pulse of
• 48:02
  of your interest in terms of filmmaking.
• 48:06
  Because like Franz Kafka's,
• 48:08
  it's wonderful. I feel so stylish.
• 48:10
  It's so framed so beautifully.
• 48:12
  And it's so funny and it's original.
• 48:14
  Do you ever feel desire to pick up a camera again and direct?
• 48:16
  I mean, do sometimes.
• 48:18
  I mean, the reason I stopped it was,
• 48:22
  well, I mean, the reason I started it was
• 48:24
  that I'm just interested in all these things.
• 48:26
  It wasn't the case of saying,
• 48:28
  or what I want to be a director.
• 48:30
  Although there was a point where I thought it would be easy.
• 48:32
  Just not easy. I thought that it was possible
• 48:34
  to go off and become an author or something like that.
• 48:38
  But it's not possible unless you're prepared to
• 48:40
  put a huge amount of work and effort and labor into that.
• 48:44
  And also to survive the challenges
• 48:48
  and the knockback and the knocks it gives you.
• 48:52
  I just don't think I'm somebody who is,
• 48:56
  these are not all separate things to me.
• 48:58
  So if I'm acting in something,
• 49:00
  I'm using the same resources that I use
• 49:04
  if I was directing something.
• 49:06
  Or if I was making music,
• 49:08
  it's the same thing.
• 49:10
  It's other people who are deciding
• 49:14
  that you're a director or you're an actor
• 49:18
  or you're a music that these are separate.
• 49:20
  To me, they're not separate things.
• 49:22
  They're just stuff that I like to do.
• 49:24
  I don't profess to be greater than anything.
• 49:28
  Especially anything.
• 49:30
  I know that I've survived long enough
• 49:32
  to have been to develop a skill
• 49:36
  in some of these areas that has allowed me to survive.
• 49:40
  But they are just...
• 49:42
  I always say when I was a little kid,
• 49:44
  I made a little studio out of a shoebox.
• 49:48
  And in that studio...
• 49:50
  And this was... I had the Beatles.
• 49:52
  I had little cut out Beatles that I made.
• 49:54
  And little cut out cameras.
• 49:56
  Because in those days there were...
• 49:58
  There was a show called Top of the Pops
• 50:00
  that you may or may not remember.
• 50:02
  Sure. But before that, there was a show called
• 50:04
  Ready, Stady, Go.
• 50:06
  The convention then,
• 50:08
  which I guess they got for America,
• 50:10
  if you saw the cameras,
• 50:12
  if they were doing...
• 50:14
  If the Beatles or the Rolling Stones were on,
• 50:16
  and the kids were dancing,
• 50:18
  you'd also see the cameras moving among them.
• 50:20
  So you could see the studio.
• 50:22
  So I somehow saw that there was a place
• 50:24
  where this stuff all happened.
• 50:26
  So I made this little place out of a shoebox.
• 50:28
  And the stage made my little up.
• 50:30
  So I just feel all of this stuff is connected.
• 50:32
  It's all from the same well.
• 50:34
  It's not unusual that you will find,
• 50:36
  you know, art school is full of people
• 50:40
  who become musicians,
• 50:42
  you know,
• 50:44
  or the actors become directors or writers.
• 50:48
  Because this is what...
• 50:50
  You know, if you went back to Shakespearean times,
• 50:52
  the actors would do their own makeup.
• 50:54
  You know, they probably...
• 50:56
  The scene sat...
• 50:58
  It was a troupe.
• 51:00
  It was a troupe mentality, I guess.
• 51:02
  People's skills would be deployed
• 51:04
  to put on the show.
• 51:06
  But as we have moved into our age
• 51:08
  of television and professionalism,
• 51:10
  these crafts have been sectioned.
• 51:12
  Well, I mean, I think actors should do their own makeup.
• 51:14
  I don't know why you sat in a makeup show
• 51:16
  and you let somebody who you don't know
• 51:18
  who I think the characters house like this.
• 51:20
  Really?
• 51:22
  What do you know about this?
• 51:24
  I remember once being in a show.
• 51:26
  I was in this TV thing.
• 51:30
  And it was set in the 70s.
• 51:32
  There were some flashbacks to the 70s.
• 51:34
  And I had to appear in these flashbacks for the 70s.
• 51:36
  And the ladies would do my makeup,
• 51:38
  give me these huge side buns.
• 51:40
  And she said,
• 51:42
  she stopped my mom.
• 51:44
  And she said, this is...
• 51:46
  I said, why am I wearing this?
• 51:48
  And she said, because that's what people worn,
• 51:50
  the 70s.
• 51:52
  I was there in the 70s.
• 51:56
  And I didn't have these.
• 51:58
  So can we not take these off?
• 52:00
  And what does she say?
• 52:02
  She said, no, you got to keep them on.
• 52:04
  She said, rather, you kept them on.
• 52:06
  That's what people wore in the 70s.
• 52:08
  I don't know.
• 52:10
  She has even flares as well.
• 52:12
  Flares were fine.
• 52:14
  I had flares.
• 52:16
  But do you know what I mean?
• 52:18
  Their sort of remit was larger.
• 52:22
  It wasn't just delivering the lines and being charismatic.
• 52:26
  They might have to paint the clothes on the set
• 52:30
  and do the makeup and everything.
• 52:32
  I think that's fun.
• 52:34
  Well, touching on one of, I guess, one of your most famous acting roles,
• 52:38
  Mark Batucco, which we mentioned earlier, the Thiccabit.
• 52:40
  I mean, speaking of anniversaries, as we say,
• 52:42
  this year is the anniversary of Heaven Centre.
• 52:44
  This year is also the 20th anniversary of Thiccabit,
• 52:46
  very scary for a lot of us.
• 52:48
  And with the Thiccabit, because that is sort of
• 52:52
  provided the blueprint or an instruction manual for, I guess,
• 52:55
  a lot of politicians in a weird roundabout way,
• 52:57
  it seems to me to be.
• 52:58
  I mean, that, you know, it's like a facetious way.
• 53:00
  But the world that that delves into and shines a light on,
• 53:03
  you know, it's shining a light on the corridors of power
• 53:06
  and how and the spin and the lies and the fallibility
• 53:09
  of all those people who work in that sector.
• 53:12
  There's a line in spinners and losers,
• 53:14
  it's special, where I think Glenn, the character Glenn is
• 53:17
  talking to a cleaner.
• 53:18
  And she says, and all this stuff is going on, you know,
• 53:21
  behind the scenes.
• 53:22
  It's kind of very funny, but very sinister stuff.
• 53:25
  And she says, people need to know about this.
• 53:28
  People should know about this.
• 53:29
  And to me, that kind of sums up what the show was doing.
• 53:32
  It was like, it was shining a light on all that stuff.
• 53:34
  At a time when maybe we thought politics was quite dusty.
• 53:37
  I mean, I don't know if we feel that way now,
• 53:39
  what with everything that's been going on.
• 53:41
  But I guess for you, reflecting on it now,
• 53:43
  it's been 20 years, do you feel like that was the mission
• 53:46
  of the show, and if so, do you think it succeeded
• 53:48
  in what it was trying to do?
• 53:50
  I don't know what the mission of the show was.
• 53:53
  I think Amanda would say, light on the wall,
• 53:56
  and I know that he was just very inspired by, yes,
• 54:00
  minister.
• 54:01
  I wanted to do a kind of modern version of that.
• 54:05
  I think he wanted to always keen to show the world
• 54:13
  how it was working, which is not how we thought it was working,
• 54:18
  which is where all these incredibly young advisors
• 54:21
  who really didn't know anything about the world,
• 54:24
  who were advising these ministers who were under increasing pressure
• 54:28
  from the malcoms or whatever to feed the brand.
• 54:31
  Again, to punish unacceptable sound bites and all
• 54:39
  of this kind of stuff, and to follow a party line.
• 54:43
  But I think we know that now.
• 54:45
  I don't think it did as any good, really,
• 54:47
  because we're just in a terrible place.
• 54:49
  Well, it's all of that world of spin,
• 54:52
  but your character, Mark Zucker,
• 54:54
  being kind of the king of spin in a lot of ways in the show.
• 54:57
  It's so bare face, it seems to me now.
• 54:59
  It's out in the open, there's no hiding it,
• 55:01
  and people, it just happens now.
• 55:03
  There is almost no need to spin how
• 55:07
  sort of vinyl it can be in those,
• 55:10
  some of those people can be, obviously, in those positions of power.
• 55:13
  I mean, for you, playing that character,
• 55:14
  inhabiting that character, Malcolm Tucker,
• 55:16
  I remember one time you said with Malcolm
• 55:18
  that playing him was quite tough,
• 55:20
  because he seems on the surface to exist at such a level of anger
• 55:24
  and sort of bullishness.
• 55:26
  But as I said before, you kind of laced in there,
• 55:28
  you've got all this, you have got a humanity underneath there,
• 55:30
  like the way he treats sound as assistant
• 55:32
  when she's kind of getting bullied at one scene
• 55:34
  when he's being forced out.
• 55:36
  And he comes in and says,
• 55:38
  leave her alone.
• 55:39
  And in the inquiry, at the end of the show,
• 55:41
  I mean, spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't seen it,
• 55:43
  but you're in the dock in the inquiry,
• 55:45
  and then Sam's behind you,
• 55:47
  and she's devastated that this is happening to you,
• 55:49
  because you're kind of being hung out to dry.
• 55:51
  I guess was it a challenge playing Malcolm
• 55:53
  with all that going on, I guess,
• 55:55
  the being that existing on that level of sort of high intensity,
• 55:58
  it seems to me, but also subtlety?
• 56:01
  Yeah, I mean, it was a constant challenge,
• 56:04
  because we didn't...
• 56:05
  I mean, it was a great, great experience.
• 56:08
  It was a great learning experience about acting.
• 56:13
  It was probably the most formative.
• 56:15
  The act that I am now probably comes from there.
• 56:18
  The important thing was just to be alive in front of the camera,
• 56:22
  not to... or I learnt that.
• 56:26
  Previously, I thought myself was beginning to understand technique
• 56:30
  and beginning to understand lenses
• 56:33
  and beginning to understand, you know,
• 56:35
  if they put an 85-millimeter lens on,
• 56:37
  it would be a close-up,
• 56:39
  and if it was a 28-millimeter lens,
• 56:41
  it would be a wide-angle lens,
• 56:43
  and that would be possibly full-figure.
• 56:45
  I thought, well, I'll modulate my acting to suit
• 56:47
  these different lenses,
• 56:49
  and trying to understand the technology of film making
• 56:53
  so that I could dance with it or be a part of it.
• 56:59
  But it was the wrong, what the thick of it taught us,
• 57:02
  taught me was that none of that mattered,
• 57:07
  because they shot it on two cameras,
• 57:09
  always with two cameras,
• 57:10
  and they were on zoom lenses.
• 57:12
  So a zoom lens meant they could have been on the other side
• 57:16
  of the room,
• 57:18
  and that shot might be like that.
• 57:20
  And I wouldn't know.
• 57:22
  So there was no point in trying to modulate our performance.
• 57:27
  The only point was trying to be truthful.
• 57:29
  While at the same time,
• 57:30
  you had all of these lines,
• 57:31
  which were not naturalistic,
• 57:33
  they were sort of baroque,
• 57:35
  kind of obviously the swearing and all that blah, blah, blah,
• 57:39
  but actually the construction of the gags
• 57:42
  and jokes was quite complex.
• 57:44
  So there was a trick that you had to do,
• 57:46
  which was you had to make that appear naturalistic.
• 57:49
  It's not natural.
• 57:50
  No, I mean, now it's the Campbell dozen,
• 57:52
  presumably, actually, you know,
• 57:53
  come out with all that brilliant.
• 57:55
  I mean, it's the kind of algorithm that you can chew up
• 57:57
  and spit out as an actor.
• 57:58
  It's like, because I hear what you're saying,
• 57:59
  you're being naturalistic,
• 58:00
  but also it felt to me like,
• 58:01
  it must have had so much fun just, you know,
• 58:03
  getting these lines and just throw it out.
• 58:06
  Well, it was worrying because they did rewrite a lot,
• 58:10
  and Markham did have big chunks of stuff to do.
• 58:13
  So I wasn't worried about delivering it all.
• 58:15
  And the other thing is that if you look at the plots of the thick...
• 58:19
  The departments that he's dealing with
• 58:24
  are really low-down.
• 58:26
  That's the boiler room.
• 58:28
  You know, really, what people forget about Markham is,
• 58:30
  he's not spending all of his time dealing with...
• 58:32
  Markham's at the foreign office,
• 58:34
  or he's dealing with, you know, transport,
• 58:38
  or he's dealing with big health.
• 58:40
  He's dealing with bigger issues and big guns.
• 58:42
  And then something goes wrong,
• 58:44
  downstairs at, you know, the Department of Social Affairs,
• 58:47
  where nobody gives a fuck about anybody there.
• 58:50
  And he's got to come all the way fucking downstairs.
• 58:53
  To deal with these people who are never going to get anywhere.
• 58:56
  But they're still going to make a...
• 58:58
  And appear and so on, they're totally...
• 59:00
  So they've got to say the right fucking thing.
• 59:02
  So just say the right thing.
• 59:03
  So the angle back up to the fucking foreign office
• 59:07
  and deal with whatever's going on, you know,
• 59:09
  an Afghanistan or whatever.
• 59:11
  But I don't want to have to come down here again.
• 59:14
  You want to go back up to your proper job?
• 59:16
  Yeah.
• 59:17
  But he always has to come down and deal with these losers.
• 59:20
  Oh, God.
• 59:24
  But yes, I thought our man does so clever,
• 59:28
  though, he did a wonderful thing, I think,
• 59:30
  which was a great help to me.
• 59:32
  Markham has a friend who,
• 59:35
  Markham gets the sack or something like that.
• 59:37
  He's at home and he's got his friend with him.
• 59:39
  Yeah.
• 59:40
  And you never really expect who's his friend.
• 59:42
  You know, it's this guy who slightly kind of wasted looking.
• 59:47
  He's got sideburns, I think, as well.
• 59:49
  That's right.
• 59:50
  Yes.
• 59:51
  But because who he's friend is this really,
• 59:53
  well, what he's saying is Markham is an alcoholic.
• 59:56
  So he has a friend from AA,
• 59:59
  who when things are very stressful,
• 1:00:01
  he has to call and say,
• 1:00:03
  look, I really want to drink.
• 1:00:06
  What can I do?
• 1:00:08
  So this friend,
• 1:00:09
  so this friend around during the background,
• 1:00:11
  that was a real kind of help because I thought,
• 1:00:14
  yeah, he's really struggling to do this thing.
• 1:00:18
  Markham doesn't, you know,
• 1:00:20
  Markham's just doing his job.
• 1:00:21
  You know, he's trying to,
• 1:00:22
  his job is to sell the government's line.
• 1:00:26
  He doesn't come up with a government's line.
• 1:00:29
  It's just his job is to sell it.
• 1:00:31
  Yeah.
• 1:00:32
  So what I like about him,
• 1:00:33
  he seems to be a hundred percent committed to his party.
• 1:00:35
  There's no, you know,
• 1:00:37
  but at the end he says that it's in the big scene at the,
• 1:00:41
  when they're having the inquest and to all.
• 1:00:45
  He does say that it's taking a wrong time by,
• 1:00:50
  by presentation being the most important thing.
• 1:00:53
  Popular content.
• 1:00:54
  Yeah.
• 1:00:55
  So he recognizes that,
• 1:00:56
  but he's not paid to do that.
• 1:00:58
  He's paid to make sure the presentation works.
• 1:01:02
  I mean, I'm sure that you've been asked this question many times.
• 1:01:05
  But do you have a favorite, like,
• 1:01:07
  Tuckerism, if you will,
• 1:01:08
  like a favorite line that you were given,
• 1:01:10
  that you just, that,
• 1:01:11
  that delivering that line,
• 1:01:12
  that was just, that was a good day.
• 1:01:13
  That you got that.
• 1:01:14
  Do you have like a favorite one of those?
• 1:01:15
  No, there's so many brilliant.
• 1:01:17
  I mean, fun enough,
• 1:01:18
  we did a little,
• 1:01:19
  because it was the 20th anniversary,
• 1:01:20
  we did a little evening.
• 1:01:22
  And we got together,
• 1:01:25
  Rebecca and Chris Addison,
• 1:01:28
  and Amanda and I,
• 1:01:30
  on stage,
• 1:01:31
  and people always ask what,
• 1:01:32
  and I don't have a favorite line,
• 1:01:33
  but that's a great,
• 1:01:34
  you know what happened was,
• 1:01:37
  they began to write more and more effective scenes
• 1:01:40
  that more and more layers in them.
• 1:01:43
  And as soon as,
• 1:01:45
  when Ollie,
• 1:01:46
  who is his, you know,
• 1:01:48
  Ollie reveals himself to be a complete, you know,
• 1:01:51
  if I can say that word.
• 1:01:53
  You ever had.
• 1:01:54
  Yeah.
• 1:01:55
  And he, uh,
• 1:01:56
  he's going to stab Malcolm in the back,
• 1:01:58
  because he's after Malcolm's job.
• 1:02:00
  And Malcolm's got nothing left.
• 1:02:02
  He's used up all of his resources.
• 1:02:05
  He says,
• 1:02:07
  I've got nothing to pull out of my magic hat.
• 1:02:10
  He says, I'm pulling the rabbit's out,
• 1:02:12
  but the heads are dropping off
• 1:02:13
  and frightening the children.
• 1:02:15
  And he goes on like that.
• 1:02:20
  And then he accuses,
• 1:02:21
  he accuses Chris,
• 1:02:22
  he says,
• 1:02:23
  you're not,
• 1:02:24
  you're no Malcolm Tucker.
• 1:02:25
  He said,
• 1:02:26
  you're not even Manchester's talk.
• 1:02:28
  Malcolm Tucker,
• 1:02:29
  tribute back.
• 1:02:30
  I mean, how can you come back from that?
• 1:02:35
  This whole speech goes on like this,
• 1:02:37
  about how hopeless he is,
• 1:02:38
  and how,
• 1:02:39
  but that idea of
• 1:02:41
  probably the rabbit's out of the head of the hat,
• 1:02:43
  and the head's dropping off,
• 1:02:45
  frightening the children.
• 1:02:47
  It's a dark magician thing,
• 1:02:48
  like, you know, like the dark, you know,
• 1:02:49
  that dark magician vibe.
• 1:02:50
  Well, that's also just,
• 1:02:51
  it's all over.
• 1:02:52
  Yeah.
• 1:02:53
  It's such a mess.
• 1:02:54
  But it's so, uh,
• 1:02:55
  vivid, the image is so vivid, don't it?
• 1:02:57
  I like this.
• 1:02:58
  Of course, there's lots of lines,
• 1:02:59
  which are great,
• 1:03:00
  but I like,
• 1:03:01
  I like the fact that they began to do,
• 1:03:03
  and scenes,
• 1:03:04
  whether there were Johnny's,
• 1:03:05
  you know,
• 1:03:06
  Malcolm had these Johnny's,
• 1:03:07
  no,
• 1:03:08
  but Chris was great.
• 1:03:11
  I mean, he was just credible.
• 1:03:13
  It's so naturalistic.
• 1:03:15
  He's acting as,
• 1:03:16
  you just look at that act,
• 1:03:17
  you go, how can you be so,
• 1:03:18
  I mean, I would look,
• 1:03:19
  I mean, that was the great thing
• 1:03:20
  about that show as well.
• 1:03:21
  If you look at all this acting going on,
• 1:03:23
  you go,
• 1:03:24
  my god, that was so realistic.
• 1:03:26
  And they've got this,
• 1:03:27
  this,
• 1:03:28
  this pantomime game
• 1:03:31
  shouting and swearing and,
• 1:03:32
  you know,
• 1:03:33
  this is amazing,
• 1:03:34
  amazing acting.
• 1:03:35
  Yeah.
• 1:03:36
  But that's the,
• 1:03:37
  that's the, I think,
• 1:03:38
  one of the many keys
• 1:03:39
  that shows brilliance,
• 1:03:40
  the fact that it doesn't,
• 1:03:41
  that whole thing of,
• 1:03:42
  like,
• 1:03:43
  capturing the truth
• 1:03:44
  about something,
• 1:03:45
  about a sex.
• 1:03:46
  It's almost like,
• 1:03:47
  all those performances,
• 1:03:48
  like yourself and,
• 1:03:49
  Chris and Rebecca front
• 1:03:50
  and all those guys,
• 1:03:51
  it's so natural,
• 1:03:52
  it's like, breathing.
• 1:03:53
  Like, you watch that,
• 1:03:54
  you can't smell the acting
• 1:03:55
  when you watch that show.
• 1:03:56
  It's so,
• 1:03:57
  Smell the acting.
• 1:03:58
  Yeah, you can't smell the acting.
• 1:03:59
  Yeah.
• 1:04:00
  We'd like to smell the acting.
• 1:04:01
  In any kind of way,
• 1:04:02
  I mean,
• 1:04:03
  some of my favourite scenes
• 1:04:04
  from that show,
• 1:04:05
  and talk about interplay
• 1:04:06
  between actors,
• 1:04:07
  is all the stuff of you
• 1:04:08
  and David Hague,
• 1:04:09
  Steve Fleming,
• 1:04:10
  you know, the Gallagher brothers
• 1:04:11
  of politics.
• 1:04:12
  I mean, that's my favourite.
• 1:04:13
  So,
• 1:04:14
  and you watch some of those scenes
• 1:04:15
  and you think,
• 1:04:16
  how the hell did you make,
• 1:04:17
  were you able to make it through
• 1:04:18
  some of these things about
• 1:04:19
  just corpseing?
• 1:04:20
  Because the stuff that you're,
• 1:04:21
  that he's coming out with
• 1:04:22
  and you're bouncing back on
• 1:04:23
  is just,
• 1:04:24
  is it, is it?
• 1:04:25
  Well, I generally was able
• 1:04:26
  to make it,
• 1:04:27
  I wasn't a great corpse
• 1:04:28
  who worried.
• 1:04:29
  And also, what happened as well,
• 1:04:30
  as the show went on
• 1:04:31
  and was successful,
• 1:04:33
  actors who joined the show
• 1:04:34
  decided that they
• 1:04:35
  would have to
• 1:04:36
  at best Malcolm.
• 1:04:38
  So, I became a target, though,
• 1:04:40
  for everybody who came on the show
• 1:04:42
  decided they would have
• 1:04:43
  a gladiatorial boat
• 1:04:44
  with me,
• 1:04:45
  which was very exhausting.
• 1:04:47
  I was still beat them.
• 1:04:49
  I was going to say,
• 1:04:51
  and David Hague came in
• 1:04:52
  and Steve Fleming,
• 1:04:53
  the chief gladiator.
• 1:04:54
  Anyways,
• 1:04:55
  I mean, you literally
• 1:04:56
  wrote Wright's
• 1:04:57
  resignation letter.
• 1:04:58
  So, he's coming in
• 1:04:59
  with a lot of
• 1:05:00
  hellfire, I guess.
• 1:05:01
  Talking about
• 1:05:02
  smelling the acting.
• 1:05:03
  Do you know
• 1:05:04
  where the expression
• 1:05:05
  ham comes from?
• 1:05:06
  In order ham actor is.
• 1:05:07
  Right?
• 1:05:08
  What's a ham actor?
• 1:05:09
  So, on who you
• 1:05:10
  overacts?
• 1:05:11
  Overacts, right.
• 1:05:12
  Okay.
• 1:05:13
  In the 18th century,
• 1:05:14
  when people
• 1:05:15
  appeared on stage,
• 1:05:17
  there was no electricity,
• 1:05:18
  so the lights
• 1:05:19
  would be candle-lit,
• 1:05:20
  etc.,
• 1:05:21
  and they would generate
• 1:05:22
  a settlement of heat.
• 1:05:23
  So, the stage
• 1:05:24
  was a hot place.
• 1:05:25
  And obviously, the actors
• 1:05:27
  would wear make-up.
• 1:05:28
  Those actors who were not
• 1:05:30
  so well off
• 1:05:31
  used their make-up
• 1:05:33
  that was held together
• 1:05:35
  with pig fat.
• 1:05:36
  So, the pigment
• 1:05:37
  would be held together
• 1:05:38
  with pig fat,
• 1:05:39
  so they would apply this.
• 1:05:40
  And so, they were basically
• 1:05:41
  applying pig fat
• 1:05:42
  with rouge
• 1:05:43
  to their faces.
• 1:05:44
  So, when they got
• 1:05:45
  in front of the lights,
• 1:05:46
  which were very hot,
• 1:05:47
  the pig fat
• 1:05:49
  would be heated up
• 1:05:51
  in the smell of ham.
• 1:05:53
  Oh, God.
• 1:05:54
  It's not permeating.
• 1:05:55
  It would be good to fend the air.
• 1:05:59
  That's where
• 1:06:02
  I would become an actor
• 1:06:03
  of a cheat of
• 1:06:04
  more humble means,
• 1:06:06
  which doesn't necessarily
• 1:06:07
  be there a bad actor.
• 1:06:09
  But that's why they became
• 1:06:10
  called hams.
• 1:06:11
  Very shiny,
• 1:06:12
  as well, I'm guessing.
• 1:06:13
  They smell, they smell
• 1:06:14
  of pigs.
• 1:06:15
  They smell of ham.
• 1:06:18
  Tracking the good name
• 1:06:20
  of actors in that time
• 1:06:21
  down even fervor, I guess.
• 1:06:23
  Wow.
• 1:06:24
  So, on the subject
• 1:06:25
  of Malcolm, as we say,
• 1:06:26
  we're talking about the
• 1:06:27
  thick of it.
• 1:06:28
  Something that we,
• 1:06:29
  I mentioned before, we rolled
• 1:06:30
  was, and I can say,
• 1:06:31
  this is, I guess, my,
• 1:06:32
  sort of, I'm feeling the weight
• 1:06:33
  of my anorac here.
• 1:06:34
  My, why you sort of nerd
• 1:06:35
  anorac.
• 1:06:36
  As we said before,
• 1:06:37
  like, so you're familiar
• 1:06:38
  with Alan Moore.
• 1:06:39
  You've heard the name of
• 1:06:40
  Alan Moore, the coin writer.
• 1:06:41
  So, he wrote a coin book
• 1:06:43
  called the leave extraordinary
• 1:06:44
  gentleman.
• 1:06:45
  I'll explain why I'm going
• 1:06:46
  with this, but basically,
• 1:06:47
  he created this coin book
• 1:06:48
  where, in the pages
• 1:06:49
  of this story,
• 1:06:50
  he's created a sort of
• 1:06:52
  quite wonderful world
• 1:06:53
  where, and not scenario,
• 1:06:54
  where every fictional character
• 1:06:55
  has ever existed,
• 1:06:56
  going back to Shakespeare's
• 1:06:57
  time, and before exists
• 1:07:01
  in this sort of shared world.
• 1:07:02
  So, you have PJ Woodhouse
• 1:07:03
  rubbing shoulders
• 1:07:04
  with light, HP Lovecraft,
• 1:07:05
  if you can imagine that.
• 1:07:06
  And actually, there's a
• 1:07:07
  state, he writes stories
• 1:07:08
  along those lines.
• 1:07:09
  And there's a volume
• 1:07:10
  of that set in the present day.
• 1:07:11
  And Malcolm turns up in it.
• 1:07:14
  The world of the thick of it
• 1:07:15
  exists in this melting pot.
• 1:07:17
  And Alan's a friend of
• 1:07:18
  Armando's.
• 1:07:19
  And actually, and he asked
• 1:07:20
  if Armando, if he could
• 1:07:21
  include Malcolm in the
• 1:07:23
  comic command, he said,
• 1:07:24
  yes.
• 1:07:25
  So, we actually have a
• 1:07:26
  the comic with us.
• 1:07:28
  This is all quite contrived.
• 1:07:30
  I'm sorry.
• 1:07:31
  Very naturalistic.
• 1:07:33
  Well, basically, you know,
• 1:07:34
  this, I mean, this is it here.
• 1:07:35
  Like I say, filling the
• 1:07:36
  anorac.
• 1:07:37
  Yeah.
• 1:07:38
  This is the piece.
• 1:07:39
  And there's a situation
• 1:07:40
  where Malcolm's being
• 1:07:41
  interviewed on Channel 4 news
• 1:07:43
  by John Snow,
• 1:07:44
  back when he was news anchor.
• 1:07:46
  And it's a very sort of
• 1:07:47
  sweary confrontation that he has.
• 1:07:49
  Typical Malcolm with John Snow.
• 1:07:51
  And we've actually we've
• 1:07:52
  taken obviously of writing
• 1:07:53
  and printing it out.
• 1:07:54
  Good.
• 1:07:55
  Which even that alone was
• 1:07:56
  quite fun.
• 1:07:57
  Yeah.
• 1:07:58
  And I wondered if you'd
• 1:07:59
  venture me up for a little,
• 1:08:00
  I guess, roleplay.
• 1:08:01
  Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  If you want to call it that,
• 1:08:03
  me being John Snow and yourself
• 1:08:05
  being Mr. Malcolm Tucker.
• 1:08:07
  Yeah.
• 1:08:08
  Yeah.
• 1:08:09
  I mean, I've actually not
• 1:08:10
  done this before.
• 1:08:11
  I know I've been a scene partner
• 1:08:12
  before.
• 1:08:13
  How does this work?
• 1:08:14
  What should I be doing?
• 1:08:15
  You speak and you listen.
• 1:08:16
  Okay.
• 1:08:17
  All right.
• 1:08:18
  That's all action is.
• 1:08:19
  I think I can do that.
• 1:08:20
  Speaking and listening.
• 1:08:21
  Things.
• 1:08:22
  If you guys got any height ham,
• 1:08:23
  I can call it like not having the
• 1:08:24
  pig fat.
• 1:08:25
  Maybe I need might need might be
• 1:08:26
  it might be it might.
• 1:08:27
  Do you know who I heard say,
• 1:08:28
  say speaking and listening.
• 1:08:29
  Robert Duval.
• 1:08:30
  Mm.
• 1:08:31
  One of the greatest actors ever.
• 1:08:33
  Mm.
• 1:08:34
  So.
• 1:08:35
  Okay.
• 1:08:36
  Channel Duval.
• 1:08:37
  Channel Duval.
• 1:08:38
  So Duval in the role of John Snow,
• 1:08:40
  I guess.
• 1:08:41
  Mm.
• 1:08:42
  Okay.
• 1:08:43
  So we're on Channel 4.
• 1:08:44
  I'm sitting across from
• 1:08:45
  Malcolm Tucker.
• 1:08:46
  I'm John Snow.
• 1:08:47
  You can believe it.
• 1:08:48
  No, you've come from as John Snow
• 1:08:49
  from the game.
• 1:08:50
  So.
• 1:08:51
  Okay.
• 1:08:52
  So that made me a white walk.
• 1:08:55
  I'd like to be a white walk.
• 1:08:56
  Currently the best monsters ever.
• 1:08:57
  I thought Dr.
• 1:08:58
  would be a great fight in a white walker.
• 1:08:59
  No, Brainer.
• 1:09:00
  Wouldn't it?
• 1:09:01
  Yeah.
• 1:09:02
  I feel like they could come from the
• 1:09:03
  same, you know, arena as the ice warriors.
• 1:09:04
  Well, yeah.
• 1:09:05
  Yeah.
• 1:09:06
  Yeah.
• 1:09:07
  But we're scrubbing.
• 1:09:08
  We used to have amazing
• 1:09:09
  characters.
• 1:09:10
  Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  Yeah.
• 1:09:12
  But we're scrubbing.
• 1:09:13
  We used to have Macy Williams from
• 1:09:14
  Game of Thrones.
• 1:09:15
  She was a doctor.
• 1:09:16
  It was in that season of Doctor Who.
• 1:09:17
  Of course.
• 1:09:18
  Yeah.
• 1:09:19
  It was great.
• 1:09:20
  But she was filming Game of Thrones
• 1:09:21
  at the same time.
• 1:09:22
  I love Game of Thrones.
• 1:09:23
  I'd say, shut up me.
• 1:09:24
  I don't want to know what happens.
• 1:09:25
  And we should tell you anyway.
• 1:09:27
  We should hold that over you.
• 1:09:28
  Like it's all the damn.
• 1:09:29
  Yeah.
• 1:09:30
  She would.
• 1:09:31
  But she would accidentally let's
• 1:09:32
  spell something.
• 1:09:33
  Stop it.
• 1:09:34
  She was great.
• 1:09:35
  I love to have back from Macy.
• 1:09:36
  Right.
• 1:09:37
  Okay.
• 1:09:38
  Okay.
• 1:09:39
  So.
• 1:09:40
  Do Val.
• 1:09:41
  Do Val.
• 1:09:42
  Sorry.
• 1:09:43
  Do you know who that is?
• 1:09:44
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:09:45
  Sure, sure, sure.
• 1:09:46
  Godfather.
• 1:09:47
  Godfather.
• 1:09:48
  Godfather.
• 1:09:49
  Godfather.
• 1:09:50
  Conversation.
• 1:09:51
  Yeah.
• 1:09:52
  Apocalypse now.
• 1:09:53
  I don't think he's in the
• 1:09:54
  conversation.
• 1:09:55
  That's.
• 1:09:56
  Not in Godfather free either.
• 1:09:57
  Sound.
• 1:09:58
  It's not Godfather free.
• 1:09:59
  No.
• 1:10:00
  He's always taken by.
• 1:10:01
  That actor with a facelift.
• 1:10:02
  Which is named.
• 1:10:03
  Oh.
• 1:10:04
  I'll.
• 1:10:05
  I'll.
• 1:10:06
  I'll ask it.
• 1:10:07
  All right.
• 1:10:08
  Thank you.
• 1:10:09
  Mr. Tucker.
• 1:10:10
  George Hamilton.
• 1:10:11
  George Hamilton.
• 1:10:12
  All right.
• 1:10:13
  All right.
• 1:10:14
  Mr. Tucker.
• 1:10:15
  Thanks for coming.
• 1:10:16
  It's an end of fucking
• 1:10:17
  discoverable pleasure, John.
• 1:10:18
  Hmm.
• 1:10:19
  So.
• 1:10:20
  Mr. Tucker.
• 1:10:21
  Are we returning to an
• 1:10:22
  era of spin?
• 1:10:23
  Well, that depends, John.
• 1:10:24
  Are you deliberately stamping
• 1:10:25
  on my cock?
• 1:10:26
  I'm not sure.
• 1:10:27
  Because if you are,
• 1:10:28
  I'll take that fucking repulsive
• 1:10:30
  unicorn vomit tie,
• 1:10:32
  ram it down your throat,
• 1:10:33
  and when it emerges from
• 1:10:34
  the other end of the kind of
• 1:10:35
  rubber,
• 1:10:36
  and it will start.
• 1:10:37
  Let's start again.
• 1:10:38
  You haven't really
• 1:10:39
  a throat when it makes you
• 1:10:41
  in a kind of reversal.
• 1:10:42
  Okay.
• 1:10:43
  All right.
• 1:10:44
  How do you say elementary?
• 1:10:45
  Elementary.
• 1:10:46
  I think that's how you say.
• 1:10:47
  Elementary.
• 1:10:48
  Who wrote that?
• 1:10:49
  I can Alan.
• 1:10:50
  Take it up with you.
• 1:10:51
  Elementary.
• 1:10:52
  All right.
• 1:10:53
  Let's start again.
• 1:10:54
  Okay.
• 1:10:55
  From the top.
• 1:10:56
  Do you want to give me any.
• 1:10:57
  Enter.
• 1:10:58
  Set up here.
• 1:10:59
  Any advice?
• 1:11:00
  Any.
• 1:11:01
  Am I annoyed?
• 1:11:02
  Am I.
• 1:11:03
  I guess you're a,
• 1:11:04
  I guess at the start,
• 1:11:05
  you're back in number 10.
• 1:11:06
  All right.
• 1:11:07
  Let's go.
• 1:11:08
  And then like you sort of.
• 1:11:09
  Yeah.
• 1:11:10
  Okay.
• 1:11:11
  Mr. Tucker.
• 1:11:12
  Thanks for coming.
• 1:11:13
  It's an indefucent,
• 1:11:14
  descriable pleasure, John.
• 1:11:15
  So, Mr. Tucker,
• 1:11:16
  are we returning to an era of spin?
• 1:11:17
  Oh, well, that depends, John.
• 1:11:18
  Are you deliberately stamper
• 1:11:19
  in my cock?
• 1:11:20
  I'm not sure.
• 1:11:22
  Because if you are,
• 1:11:24
  I'll take that fucking repulsive
• 1:11:26
  unicorn vomit tie,
• 1:11:28
  ram it down your throat,
• 1:11:29
  and when it emerges from
• 1:11:30
  the other end in a kind of
• 1:11:32
  I'll use it to floss your elementary canal.
• 1:11:35
  Do I make myself perfectly fucking clear?
• 1:11:38
  Mr. Tucker, thank you for coming in.
• 1:11:45
  Now children fucking need.
• 1:11:49
  Oh, that was a name.
• 1:11:50
  They never, never, they never put anything
• 1:11:51
  if it characters on children in need.
• 1:11:53
  No, they shouldn't, please.
• 1:11:54
  I mean, it's a no brainer, isn't it?
• 1:11:55
  You get that? Yeah, people were
• 1:11:56
  maybe coughing up all the pennies and pounds for that.
• 1:12:00
  Oh, that was wonderful.
• 1:12:02
  Thank you so much.
• 1:12:03
  But now for something completely different, I guess.
• 1:12:05
  So, we mentioned way back at the start,
• 1:12:08
  when we were talking about Franz Ferdinand
• 1:12:10
  and, you know, Glastonbury and your music.
• 1:12:13
  Yeah.
• 1:12:14
  Earlier this year, you had Sweet Emotions.
• 1:12:16
  Sweet Emotions.
• 1:12:17
  Sweet Illusions.
• 1:12:18
  Sorry, I don't know, I think.
• 1:12:19
  Sweet Illusions.
• 1:12:20
  Out in the spring, your second solo album,
• 1:12:22
  Synchristopher was your first.
• 1:12:24
  It's terrific.
• 1:12:26
  As someone who is, as you say, all these things,
• 1:12:28
  acting, music, filmmaking, they're all kind of the same,
• 1:12:31
  one and the same for you.
• 1:12:33
  Like, what was kind of, what was the germination of the album?
• 1:12:36
  And, like, how did they come about?
• 1:12:38
  That's because I have a friend called Dr. Robert,
• 1:12:41
  Robert Howard, who is in a band called The Blowmunk.
• 1:12:44
  He's in a band called The Blowmunk,
• 1:12:46
  who were a big band in the 80s.
• 1:12:48
  And he's a friend of mine.
• 1:12:50
  And he's a guy at a party who can lift up a guitar
• 1:12:53
  and he can play in it.
• 1:12:54
  He's a walking jukebox.
• 1:12:56
  And, otherwise, I was like to play the guitar.
• 1:12:58
  I was never a guy at a party who did that.
• 1:13:00
  I didn't like to do that.
• 1:13:01
  I couldn't do that.
• 1:13:02
  But, I hung around with him a lot.
• 1:13:04
  And then he'd start saying, he would say, play with me.
• 1:13:06
  Play with me.
• 1:13:07
  So, if he played, I would start to play with him.
• 1:13:09
  And then, he used to have a small label
• 1:13:11
  and they used to release an album a year.
• 1:13:13
  And the album was, what, what was what,
• 1:13:15
  odd kind of congregations of different musicians,
• 1:13:18
  friends of his that he had around,
• 1:13:20
  to make talibet and people like that.
• 1:13:23
  And I happened to be around when they were recording
• 1:13:26
  one of these albums.
• 1:13:28
  And he said, write a song.
• 1:13:29
  And I said, write a song.
• 1:13:31
  He said, use the right songs when you're a kid.
• 1:13:33
  Right?
• 1:13:34
  He said, write a song and come in and we'll do it.
• 1:13:37
  That's all.
• 1:13:38
  Okay.
• 1:13:39
  So, I went home and I wrote a song.
• 1:13:40
  I brought it in.
• 1:13:41
  And they played it.
• 1:13:42
  And it was like, amazing.
• 1:13:44
  So, I've never played with anyone who can play really.
• 1:13:46
  When I was in a band, we were all at the same kind of level
• 1:13:48
  or trying to find or learn how to play instruments.
• 1:13:51
  These people could play.
• 1:13:52
  And they played the song and they did it.
• 1:13:55
  They made it music.
• 1:13:57
  I thought, this is so great.
• 1:13:58
  I've got to do this.
• 1:13:59
  I've got to do more of this.
• 1:14:00
  Just because it's fun.
• 1:14:02
  And then I went off to America to do the suicide squad.
• 1:14:05
  And I was there for months, even though I could film my partner
• 1:14:08
  about three weeks.
• 1:14:09
  But I was there for, and I thought, well, I'll write a song every day
• 1:14:12
  because I heard a statistic that you have to write 100 terrible songs
• 1:14:15
  and able to get one.
• 1:14:17
  A decent one.
• 1:14:18
  I don't know if I've managed that yet at all.
• 1:14:20
  But I thought, well, just do it.
• 1:14:22
  So, I just write all these terrible, terrible songs.
• 1:14:25
  And because technology has changed,
• 1:14:27
  because technology now you have garage band and logic and all the stuff,
• 1:14:30
  you can, all you need is your laptop.
• 1:14:32
  And you can start to make music.
• 1:14:35
  So, I would do these little demos.
• 1:14:37
  And I would send them to Robert.
• 1:14:38
  And then he would send them to somebody he knew who was a great guitarist
• 1:14:41
  or somebody who was a great drummer.
• 1:14:42
  And they'd come back with these great musicians.
• 1:14:47
  Having done their stuff on it.
• 1:14:49
  So, he said we should do an album.
• 1:14:51
  So, we did.
• 1:14:52
  And we did say Christopher, which was fun.
• 1:14:55
  And I thought, well, I want to do this again.
• 1:14:57
  So, it's just really a hobby.
• 1:14:59
  It's just really something I like to do.
• 1:15:01
  So, and again, I did a lot of demos and Robert worked on them.
• 1:15:05
  And then I went, he lives in Spain.
• 1:15:07
  So, we went over to Spain and finished off recording it there.
• 1:15:11
  I think there was an advancement between the first album and this one.
• 1:15:15
  And hopefully there will be an advancement between this one and the next one.
• 1:15:20
  It's just really something I enjoy doing.
• 1:15:22
  It's not like I'm not trying to be a pop star or anything.
• 1:15:25
  It's just this is so...
• 1:15:27
  I can just lose myself in this.
• 1:15:29
  And there's no pressure.
• 1:15:30
  It's not like...
• 1:15:31
  It doesn't have to be successful.
• 1:15:33
  It's not supporting anything.
• 1:15:36
  And nobody else has employed in it.
• 1:15:38
  It's just me.
• 1:15:39
  It's just...
• 1:15:41
  And there's nobody else to say it should be like this,
• 1:15:45
  or it should be like other than Robert or some other trusted people who have,
• 1:15:49
  you know, opinions about the artistic direction.
• 1:15:52
  And I've just enjoyed it so much.
• 1:15:54
  And then we died this year.
• 1:15:55
  I thought, let's see if we can do this.
• 1:15:59
  Let's see if I can play in front of an audience.
• 1:16:03
  So, my friend, Christine Dinwood, who works, you know,
• 1:16:08
  with Bernard Butler and all two images and people like that,
• 1:16:12
  she said, well, I'll help people band together.
• 1:16:15
  And she put together a band of like-minded young people.
• 1:16:21
  I was very nervous playing with them,
• 1:16:24
  but they played all these songs.
• 1:16:26
  So, we've done about four gigs, which is really exciting.
• 1:16:30
  And we're going to do a tour next year.
• 1:16:34
  Oh, fantastic.
• 1:16:36
  Because that was going to be my next question.
• 1:16:38
  Were there any plans to tour it?
• 1:16:40
  Yeah, at the end of February.
• 1:16:42
  We did just for a couple of weeks, we'll do small venues
• 1:16:46
  and just take it out there.
• 1:16:48
  But it's been so enjoyable.
• 1:16:50
  But as I said to the band, you know,
• 1:16:52
  if it's not fun, we're not doing it.
• 1:16:54
  It's not an industry.
• 1:16:56
  We're not building an empire.
• 1:16:58
  We're not trying to take this to a higher level.
• 1:17:01
  It's just for the joy of making music.
• 1:17:03
  This is when I, you know, when I was 17 and 18,
• 1:17:06
  I'd go and do gigs.
• 1:17:08
  And, you know, I spent all my years at art school
• 1:17:10
  and there I have to do in gigs.
• 1:17:12
  But then somewhere along there, I lost all my nerve
• 1:17:14
  and got frightened and never supported.
• 1:17:19
  So, this has been delightful, you know.
• 1:17:22
  But there is no plan for world domination.
• 1:17:26
  Not following the footsteps of Dav Ross with this one.
• 1:17:28
  You're going to just kick it.
• 1:17:29
  No.
• 1:17:31
  Oh, Lewis.
• 1:17:32
  Oh, Lewis.
• 1:17:33
  Probably more of an apt comparison.
• 1:17:35
  He's amazing.
• 1:17:36
  He's incredible.
• 1:17:37
  I mean, like you say that and I hear that.
• 1:17:39
  But like I said, the music between you and Lewis,
• 1:17:41
  there was, you know, a real sort of musical bone in the,
• 1:17:44
  I guess, in the Capaldi clan.
• 1:17:46
  I guess.
• 1:17:47
  I mean, what's the likes of both of you doing your music?
• 1:17:49
  Obviously, very separate.
• 1:17:50
  But having that kind of, I guess.
• 1:17:52
  Well, she's huge.
• 1:17:53
  I mean, I don't, you know, I don't have anything to,
• 1:17:55
  I mean, Lewis, I didn't know.
• 1:17:57
  But earlier on in his career, I saw him.
• 1:18:01
  I thought he was great.
• 1:18:02
  I got in touch with him because I'd seen him.
• 1:18:05
  You know, I thought he was fantastic.
• 1:18:07
  I went to see him.
• 1:18:08
  I gig and was, you know, just a little one.
• 1:18:10
  And I was a mayor.
• 1:18:11
  I thought I was so proud of him.
• 1:18:12
  Even though I didn't know.
• 1:18:14
  I mean, he has part of my family.
• 1:18:16
  And then he asked me, obviously, the original video for someone
• 1:18:20
  you love, which was great.
• 1:18:21
  So he's amazing.
• 1:18:22
  I think he's incredible.
• 1:18:24
  Yeah.
• 1:18:25
  But no, that's not why I'm not trying to be anything like that.
• 1:18:29
  I couldn't be, you know, he's devoted his life.
• 1:18:32
  You know, I'm very conscious of the fact that my friends,
• 1:18:35
  who are musicians, were world famous or just surviving,
• 1:18:40
  have dedicated their lives to this.
• 1:18:43
  You know, it's a calling.
• 1:18:45
  It's a, and they have gone through the ups and downs.
• 1:18:49
  I haven't done that.
• 1:18:53
  I have done that with acting and with and with.
• 1:18:55
  The other things that I'm involved with.
• 1:18:56
  So I'm deeply respectful of their experience and position
• 1:19:01
  and commitment and don't pretend to be in any way the same as them.
• 1:19:06
  What I would say is that I don't think that music itself
• 1:19:10
  has any qualms about attaching itself to anybody who has a goal.
• 1:19:16
  Well, it's that punky fuss of like, you know, here's a chord.
• 1:19:18
  Here's another chord.
• 1:19:19
  Here's a third chord, now form a band.
• 1:19:21
  It's like, just pick up a guitar or a drum kit and do it.
• 1:19:23
  Yeah, but I think that's the same with all art.
• 1:19:25
  I think everyone should be encouraged to have a goal.
• 1:19:29
  You know, because you might be great at it.
• 1:19:31
  You don't know.
• 1:19:32
  You might also not be great at it.
• 1:19:34
  No, but if you have a goal at it and maybe in a year's time,
• 1:19:37
  if you keep having a goal, you'll suddenly break through
• 1:19:40
  and discover that you do have a skill or talent in that area.
• 1:19:44
  But no, it's great fun.
• 1:19:45
  I love it and I love playing with the band.
• 1:19:47
  I can't believe they're just so amazing.
• 1:19:50
  Yeah, no, they do.
• 1:19:51
  And the record is terrific.
• 1:19:53
  And the other thing you just said there about just the enjoyment factor of doing it.
• 1:19:56
  You can really hear that on the record.
• 1:19:58
  Like so many songs like The Big Guy I Loved and Binn Night as well as a great song.
• 1:20:03
  And, you know, is it today?
• 1:20:05
  And something that I wanted to touch on, because I mean, I'm a big Lou Reed fan.
• 1:20:09
  And I know you're a big Lou Reed fan.
• 1:20:11
  Berlin, one of your favorite albums, I want to say.
• 1:20:13
  There's a real, to me, listen to it with that sort of in my ear.
• 1:20:16
  There's a kind of, I thought I sort of felt a kind of, there's the guitar sound on it.
• 1:20:20
  It's so, so great.
• 1:20:21
  And it's quite stripped down and but muscular.
• 1:20:24
  It reminded me a lot of Lou's playing in sort of that late 80s in New York kind of period.
• 1:20:28
  Was that something that you were thinking about when you were...
• 1:20:30
  Yeah, well, because of my age, you know,
• 1:20:32
  the big influences are obviously Bowie and Lou Reed and talking heads.
• 1:20:38
  And all of those people, you know, that was within my art school playlist.
• 1:20:42
  As well as sex pistols and clash and all that.
• 1:20:46
  But they did not wipe out, you know, Lou Reed and Bowie and those people.
• 1:20:52
  They somehow were part of that whole thing as well.
• 1:20:56
  And no, Lou Reed was amazing.
• 1:20:58
  I used to, you know,
• 1:20:59
  pull a lot of all nighters trying to do the work that I had to do at art school.
• 1:21:03
  I would, you know, always have Berlin on.
• 1:21:06
  But I've been a transformer.
• 1:21:08
  It's like just one of the greatest albums.
• 1:21:10
  It's my favorite album.
• 1:21:11
  It's made.
• 1:21:12
  I mean, it's fantastic.
• 1:21:13
  You listen to that every single song is amazing.
• 1:21:16
  And also the production on it is so clever and so inventive.
• 1:21:21
  And his voice, of course, is extraordinary.
• 1:21:25
  And also the simplicity and the simplicity of the depth of the lyrics is amazing.
• 1:21:32
  And also he had a lot of, he was always releasing live albums.
• 1:21:35
  Yeah.
• 1:21:36
  So you could hear his versions with him playing guitar.
• 1:21:39
  You could have a strong band with him.
• 1:21:42
  Like rock and roll animal, that whole figure.
• 1:21:45
  It was great.
• 1:21:46
  I think two couple of guys who ended up in...
• 1:21:48
  Oh, it's not Metallica.
• 1:21:49
  He's got a couple of really heavy guitarists on that and backing him up.
• 1:21:52
  And all those songs just get...
• 1:21:53
  Well, sweet Jane, as soon as you start sweet Jane, all those chords.
• 1:21:57
  And then also that lead line over it all is like, wow, that's just...
• 1:22:00
  It's a live song, but it's very powerful.
• 1:22:03
  It's great.
• 1:22:04
  And I thought I did feel some of that on...
• 1:22:06
  I mean, I'm just sort of...
• 1:22:08
  All I'm doing is really going back to where I started.
• 1:22:10
  I'm just picking up where I left off.
• 1:22:12
  So all of my influences are in...
• 1:22:14
  It's really, I guess, it's an art student's kind of album, you know, from 1981 or something in 1980, really.
• 1:22:22
  Probably I didn't have to skill them to do it.
• 1:22:24
  But now I've surrounded myself with people who do.
• 1:22:29
  So I'm able to lean into that a bit more.
• 1:22:32
  But I find it very satisfying because as a creative thing, it's ultimately can do it on my own.
• 1:22:40
  You can write those songs on your own and just put it together like...
• 1:22:43
  Yeah, and the technology is available so you can put it on your laptop and make stuff.
• 1:22:51
  And it doesn't have to sell.
• 1:22:53
  It doesn't have to be successful.
• 1:22:55
  It doesn't have to make a mark in the world.
• 1:22:58
  It's just created and it's there.
• 1:23:01
  Because when I was young, you had to be signed to a record label.
• 1:23:05
  Because they were the only ones who could afford studios and all that stuff.
• 1:23:08
  It's completely different from that.
• 1:23:10
  You say that? I mean, the album was...
• 1:23:12
  I think it won't reach top five of the alternate album charts.
• 1:23:16
  Yeah, but it's very confusing because I don't really know anything about any of that stuff.
• 1:23:21
  But that's fine, that's good.
• 1:23:23
  You know, it's there and people can listen to it.
• 1:23:27
  And what is lovely about the world now is that anybody can release an album.
• 1:23:31
  And it's there.
• 1:23:33
  If you want to go and look at it and listen to it, you can do it.
• 1:23:36
  And you don't need this great corporation behind you.
• 1:23:41
  And that said, I think if you want to be successful in that business,
• 1:23:45
  you have to have that kind of corporate muscle still behind you.
• 1:23:50
  That's how we did my first album.
• 1:23:52
  Well, it's fun getting it.
• 1:23:54
  We want to obviously have vinyl put it on vinyl.
• 1:23:57
  But they said to us know that every vinyl factory is...
• 1:24:01
  It's been booked by Adele.
• 1:24:03
  Because her new album is coming out.
• 1:24:05
  So you couldn't get...
• 1:24:06
  Nobody could make any of their own records until Adele's album would come on.
• 1:24:10
  I love Adele, but blessed Adele.
• 1:24:12
  But she used up all the vinyl for first half of the year, that year.
• 1:24:16
  And reminds me of when Kubrick was making the shining on it.
• 1:24:19
  And it was just...
• 1:24:21
  He had all the stages for the overlook.
• 1:24:23
  And then everyone likes Spielberg and all these other filmmakers
• 1:24:25
  were trying to get in there to set up.
• 1:24:27
  Raiders of Lost Ark and all these things in Kubrick was like, I'll be done.
• 1:24:30
  You know, I'm done soon.
• 1:24:32
  No, when I'm finished, basically.
• 1:24:34
  So one last question I wanted to ask you before we finish.
• 1:24:37
  So you've worked with over your career with so many amazing filmmakers
• 1:24:40
  and writers and storytellers.
• 1:24:42
  People like Bill Forsyff on local hero in Ken Russell.
• 1:24:45
  Ken Russell on Lair of the White Worm.
• 1:24:47
  And Armando, obviously on Fick of it.
• 1:24:49
  And Stephen Moffa and Rostri Davis.
• 1:24:51
  And Paul King as well on the Palanta movies.
• 1:24:53
  I mean, so many great people.
• 1:24:55
  I mean, in an ideal world, if you could sort of pick and choose someone
• 1:24:57
  who you're really excited about, you know, who's out there now doing great work.
• 1:25:01
  I mean, who would you sort of want to work with the most
• 1:25:03
  if you could sort of chew work with anybody like today?
• 1:25:05
  Do you mean someone who's well-known?
• 1:25:07
  I guess so. Or someone just one that you're excited about.
• 1:25:09
  The idea of working with them and collaborating with them sort of gets you excited.
• 1:25:13
  I don't know. I think it's unfair to try to pick on somebody.
• 1:25:16
  I mean, some people have longstanding relationships with which are deeper.
• 1:25:22
  You know, I mean, Armando and Stephen, I've worked with a lot.
• 1:25:26
  And so we have a relationship.
• 1:25:29
  So we are further down the road.
• 1:25:31
  So I'd be delighted to work with either of them because we understand each other.
• 1:25:39
  But at the same time, you know, I get to work on the upper shore with new directors
• 1:25:44
  and it's always exciting.
• 1:25:46
  You know, people, it's basically younger people with new ideas
• 1:25:50
  and who are exploring techniques and learning new ways of doing things.
• 1:25:55
  So I don't know. Who would you like to work with?
• 1:25:57
  Who do you think, who should I work with?
• 1:25:59
  Who should you work with?
• 1:26:00
  Oh, God. I mean...
• 1:26:02
  Who do you think is really good, though?
• 1:26:04
  Who I think is really good. I mean, I mean, we've got back here punch-short love.
• 1:26:07
  I mean, this Paul Thomas Anderson, who made this film, is one of my favourites.
• 1:26:10
  Yeah.
• 1:26:11
  He did one battle after another quite recently, the Leo DeCaprio film.
• 1:26:14
  Yeah, but he's not asking me to do any works.
• 1:26:16
  That's not happening, so.
• 1:26:18
  I'm sure... I mean, he's a big UK comedy fan.
• 1:26:20
  He's a big, you know, like he loves brass-eye.
• 1:26:22
  And I'm sure he's a fan of thick of it and all that great stuff.
• 1:26:25
  So I'm sure he's...
• 1:26:26
  Where do you put word on?
• 1:26:28
  I'll put... If I ever get him on the pod, I'll definitely be putting in the word.
• 1:26:31
  But even just like working with James Gunn on suicide squad, I mean, that is also...
• 1:26:35
  Oh, James is great.
• 1:26:37
  Yeah, James is lovely.
• 1:26:38
  He seems like a great energy.
• 1:26:39
  James is such a nice person, such a good person.
• 1:26:44
  But also incredibly prepared.
• 1:26:46
  Like, you know, I just love just watching.
• 1:26:49
  You know, I wasn't in that movie very much, but I loved hanging around.
• 1:26:53
  Because the scale of it, the scale of these American movies is so much bigger than what we're used to.
• 1:26:59
  Even Doctor, which is very humble.
• 1:27:02
  I remember we were in this scene in a building, on a high-rise building,
• 1:27:06
  office block.
• 1:27:08
  At the top of it, there's a paying house with an aquarium.
• 1:27:11
  Two or three floors down.
• 1:27:13
  There are officers in which the suicide squad find themselves.
• 1:27:17
  I don't know, trying to diffuse a bomb or something like that.
• 1:27:21
  But then a grenade goes off.
• 1:27:24
  And the building begins to kill over like this.
• 1:27:27
  And as it kills over, the aquarium,
• 1:27:30
  which is enormous, cracks open,
• 1:27:34
  and all the water begins to flow down the building.
• 1:27:37
  And into the floor that the suicide squad sweeps them out.
• 1:27:44
  They built a floor of the building in the studio.
• 1:27:48
  That could be flooded at will.
• 1:27:50
  It was like an gigantic gimbal.
• 1:27:53
  So they'd say action.
• 1:27:55
  And they'd flood it with water from above.
• 1:27:59
  And then as they flooded it, it would begin to lean over like this.
• 1:28:03
  And the actors would begin to stumble,
• 1:28:06
  flow out of it.
• 1:28:08
  And then they'd say, cut.
• 1:28:09
  And they'd put it back.
• 1:28:11
  And the water would all be pumped out.
• 1:28:13
  And then they'd do it again.
• 1:28:15
  But that was like three times the size of this space.
• 1:28:19
  It's humble space.
• 1:28:20
  I think they built the floor of a building.
• 1:28:23
  That must be when you're just like,
• 1:28:26
  being surrounded by all that machinery and all that,
• 1:28:28
  that circus like, I guess.
• 1:28:29
  Yes, you know what was amazing though?
• 1:28:31
  I also know this was what I thought was amazing.
• 1:28:33
  We did a scene that was,
• 1:28:36
  there was a rain machine.
• 1:28:39
  No, if you're in the UK,
• 1:28:41
  a rain machine can go from a fairly professional looking thing rig.
• 1:28:46
  They always look at a little bit as the hand made.
• 1:28:49
  But there's a fairly professional rig,
• 1:28:51
  which is like plumbing pipes.
• 1:28:55
  Which is up there.
• 1:28:57
  And somebody turns a lever and water comes down.
• 1:29:00
  Or you will have somewhere with a hose or all that's constant.
• 1:29:04
  They had a rig on a crane that was so high above us
• 1:29:12
  that when they turned it on,
• 1:29:14
  you could see the rain come out.
• 1:29:16
  It would be a couple of seconds before it actually hits you.
• 1:29:19
  And then when they could alter the look of it,
• 1:29:22
  some kind of, they could make it whiter or, you know.
• 1:29:26
  But we still had to stand in the rain all day long.
• 1:29:30
  And Margot Robbie was there.
• 1:29:32
  And she was in some terrible,
• 1:29:34
  harlequin kind of ferial,
• 1:29:37
  scanty kind of thing.
• 1:29:39
  Like a dress.
• 1:29:40
  Yeah, I was saying that scene.
• 1:29:41
  And she was so amazing.
• 1:29:43
  She stood in the rain all day long for like three days.
• 1:29:48
  I never complained.
• 1:29:50
  And smiled and was warm.
• 1:29:52
  And was friendly to everyone.
• 1:29:54
  And I thought, that's great.
• 1:29:56
  That's the real thing there.
• 1:29:58
  Because it had been in circumstances where people have moaned
• 1:30:01
  from the word go.
• 1:30:02
  But the slightest discomfort.
• 1:30:04
  I thought, wow, that's amazing.
• 1:30:07
  Well, I thought you were going to say when you said that rain machines
• 1:30:10
  in Britain can go from a rain machine to obviously being non-existent
• 1:30:13
  because it just rains all the time.
• 1:30:15
  Yeah.
• 1:30:16
  It's a bit rescue.
• 1:30:17
  Yeah.
• 1:30:18
  Well, thank you so much for coming on after this.
• 1:30:20
  It will be.
• 1:30:21
  This was such a pleasure.
• 1:30:22
  And thank you for indulging us in not only our questions,
• 1:30:24
  but also the, I guess, the tuckerisms and everything else.
• 1:30:28
  Well, you're welcome.
• 1:30:29
  Thank you for being interested.
• 1:30:30
  I appreciate it very much.
• 1:30:32
  Our pleasure, sir.
• 1:30:33
  Thank you.
• 1:30:34
  Thank you.
• 1:30:35
  Hey, everyone.
• 1:30:44
  Thanks so much for listening to my chat
• 1:30:46
  with the one and only Peter Capaldi.
• 1:30:48
  Remember to like and subscribe to the podcast
• 1:30:50
  so you never miss an episode.
• 1:30:51
  And stay tuned for more exciting interviews and guests
• 1:30:54
  coming soon on half the picture.
• 1:31:14
  You