Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ep 59: Jim Ratcliffe Causes a STORM with Immigration Comments. Has he Weakened Manchester United?

Transcript

Ep 59: Jim Ratcliffe Causes a STORM with Immigration Comments. Has he Weakened Manchester United? · Let's Kick It Off!

0:14
Let's kick it off. I'm your host Steve and I'm
0:17
joined by Ash, Jamie Jackson, The Guardians Manchester
0:21
football correspondent and Steve representing the prominent
0:24
Manchester United fan group The 1958.
0:27
We haven't even played a match this weekend and yet Manchester
0:30
United have dominated the front pages over the last week.
0:34
Jim Ratcliffe, United's co-owner, sparked major backlash
0:38
after telling Sky News the UK has been colonised by
0:41
immigrants. He added you can't have an
0:44
economy with 9 million people on benefits and huge levels of
0:47
immigrants coming in. I mean the UK has been
0:50
colonised. It's costing too much money.
0:53
He also cited population figures to support this argument, saying
0:57
the population of the UK was 58 million in 2020.
1:00
Now it's 70 million. That's 12 million people.
1:03
However, according to the Office of the National Statistics, the
1:07
UK population was 66.7 million in mid 2020 and 69.4 million in
1:13
mid 2025, meaning Jim's figures were incorrect.
1:17
The comments were condemned by Prime Minister Keir Starmer,
1:20
Chancellor Rachel Reeves and Greater Manchester mayor Andy
1:23
Burnham. The 1958 described the remarks
1:26
as very ill advised and criticised to Jim for commenting
1:29
on national issues while living in Monaco.
1:32
Ratcliffe later said. I'm sorry that my choice of
1:35
language has offended some people, but it's important to
1:38
raise the issue of controlled and well managed immigration
1:41
that supports economic growth. Manchester United responded by
1:45
reaffirming that inclusive and welcoming values.
1:48
So this isn't just a football story, it's political, it's
1:52
commercial, it's reputational. So Jamie, we'll start with you.
1:56
When did you first get wind of this interview and what was your
1:59
immediate reaction when you saw those comments?
2:02
Yeah, on the was it a Wednesday? City played Fulham, so last
2:07
Wednesday was it, I think it was, wasn't it last Wednesday?
2:11
And I've just came across the sort of clip on X and yeah, my
2:16
reaction was quoted, you know, that the interview did sort of
2:20
like the URL on X and just went wow, and then had another look
2:24
at it, went wow again. Could I think, I don't know, you
2:29
know, you could be polite to this.
2:30
You could be kind of more raw. But first thing is he comes
2:35
across as a lot less intelligent than than maybe some people
2:38
might think he is because he's got lots of money.
2:41
But it goes to show to me, not goes to show to me because I
2:45
wasn't that surprised just because you've got lots of
2:47
money. You can be sort of smart as one
2:48
thing, but you're not necessarily smart in other areas
2:51
or generally what I would call sort of like intelligent.
2:55
And when I say that, I mean sort of just, you know, you read a
2:57
lot, you sort of, you know, you've had quite a lot of
3:00
different life experiences. You, you know, you've met a lot
3:02
of different sort of people, you've maybe had different jobs.
3:04
Whatever it is, it's allowed you to experience quite a lot of
3:08
variety of, you know, existing, you know, life.
3:11
So I wasn't that surprised, but I was like, OK, you know,
3:15
colonised by immigrants. I mean, you know, call me call
3:17
me like an old hippie or something, that we're all
3:19
immigrants of the world. People might think that sounds
3:22
cheesy, but you know, we're all from the world for me, you know,
3:25
And listen, he's allowed his point of view, but I just think,
3:28
I just thought, and I still think that.
3:30
You know you. Take it back to football just
3:32
for a second. Your team is full of, you know,
3:35
people not necessarily from these shores, whatever that
3:38
means, you know what I mean? And, you know, it just seems
3:42
really, really odd and, you know, sort of talking to some
3:45
people since involved with the squad and, you know, you can
3:49
imagine at the football club. I mean, listen, there is a
3:53
constituent of people who think he got it right because they're
3:55
basically, you know, you know, they don't like outsiders.
3:58
And again, I'm being polite. I'm using a polite phrase there.
4:00
Yeah. And those people from me, well,
4:02
you know, they're thick and and they're wrong.
4:04
But most people I I sort of talk to were like, that's gone down
4:07
line, the proverbial. And it's interesting you
4:10
mentioned there the Manchester United statement.
4:12
I mean, I've got like a sort of a bit of a rule in life.
4:15
If you don't know the answer to something, it's down to money.
4:17
If you do know the answer to something, it's down to money.
4:19
Now, I think they put that statement out partly because
4:20
it's commercially damaging. Yeah.
4:23
You know, I'm not saying there aren't amazing good people at
4:26
Manchester United, right? But you know, to come out
4:30
against the largest minority owner in that way says to me
4:33
there's a commercial thing. It's also interesting you
4:35
mentioned about Starmer there, right, Because the last time I,
4:38
I, I had a local was aware Ratcliffe sort of news wider Old
4:43
Trafford regeneration project, we want to call it relies on
4:46
government money, right? So, you know, it's quite
4:50
interesting that he was asked in that interview.
4:52
And then you go on to like how he supports or he seemed to sort
4:55
of be a fan of Nigel Farage. I mean, I'm sorry, you know,
4:58
that's up to him. But you know, you want, if you
5:01
want, if you want a figure that's anti Manchester, anti
5:03
football as, as maybe we we all would like to figure football as
5:07
a sort of game that's accessible to all, all, all people.
5:09
And you know, Farage is not about that.
5:11
And you know, I could go on and on, but that's a flavour of how
5:14
I feel about it. Yeah, interesting.
5:17
And I think no one saw this coming, obviously, because we
5:19
played West Ham away on the Tuesday, actually got a, you
5:22
know, a decent result, last minute winner.
5:25
We didn't play that well. But you know, you pulled out a
5:26
result. So obviously following the four
5:29
wins in a row from Carrick. So everyone's thinking, oh,
5:31
we'll have a nice little two weeks here and, you know,
5:34
refresh the batteries, etcetera. So Steve, again, from your
5:37
perspective when those quotes came out, again, initial
5:41
reaction from you, I know you put the statement out, but yeah,
5:43
I guess like what was your thoughts behind the scenes?
5:47
I was actually driving on from work and Chris Wheeler sent me a
5:51
voice note. He's like Steve, have you seen
5:53
this? And I'm like, I'm in the car
5:55
Mike, what is it? And he sent me a grab of the
5:59
quote and I must have had a look at it about 3 or 4 times trying
6:04
to digest and it's like my message back to him.
6:07
I just sent him a voice note saying look, I'm in the car and
6:09
I'll have a look at it properly when I go home and said, but is
6:12
this reliable? Is it real?
6:14
It seems so ridiculous. It was, it was and you know, it
6:20
would have been bad enough of from from our point of view as
6:24
in US Man United fans, but then he actually went on and and
6:29
brought the club into the conversation.
6:32
You know, if I get that he was a business summit, whatever it was
6:36
where he was, but I just think his choice of language was, was
6:41
absolutely, it was off the scale and it was, you know, it's, I
6:45
think being honest, I think everything there's ever come out
6:49
of his mouth in public as I don't think he's been ill
6:53
advised because I just don't think he listens to anybody
6:56
because everything he's done is, it's not been factually correct.
7:01
You know, we, he gave us the spiel when he did the, after we
7:03
had the, the Arsenal protest. Then the day after, lo and
7:07
behold, he's got 2 interviews lined up and you know, we start
7:11
spotting on about the, the, the, the stadium is going to be
7:14
started in the summer. There is the new stadium, it's
7:17
going to be started in the summer.
7:18
Well, it's not, you don't even know the land you want to put it
7:21
on for a start. And, you know, everything, like
7:26
Jamie said, is you can be, you can be extremely wealthy and
7:30
thick because, you know, I think publicly comes across as a very
7:35
naive and stupid human being, especially for somebody that is,
7:41
I know he lives in Monaco to obviously for his own personal
7:44
reasons. But for somebody that supposedly
7:47
comes from the area, know the area that, you know, the
7:50
Manchester was built on immigration, you know, from the
7:53
industry, everything. It's, it's, it's something we're
7:57
proud of as a, as a city. And it, I don't know, it was, I
8:01
was speechless when I saw it. And then, you know, Chris asked
8:05
us a few questions. So we, we threw together a, a
8:09
press release for him and sent that out to, to sort of everyone
8:13
else. And that was it there.
8:16
There was just a oh, to bedlam everywhere you looked from like
8:21
you said, the Prime Minister and as you know, as Jamie said, he's
8:25
toting the area to be regenerated and the two people
8:30
he seemingly pissed off within the government was handy
8:33
Burnham, you know, and, and the Prime Minister himself.
8:35
And it's just like I speechless with it all.
8:40
Absolutely speechless. Yeah.
8:42
And Ash, same question to you, just the initial reaction when
8:45
you saw this unfolding last week.
8:48
Yeah, I think it was similar to the guys.
8:51
I actually saw a screenshot from you, Steve, with the quote.
8:57
And after I kind of like digested it in terms of like my
8:59
eyes looked at it, I was like, OK, I think he said that.
9:03
And a bit like Steve is like, did he really say that?
9:06
I kind of had the same thought as Jamie, to be fair, I've
9:09
actually heard this type of stuff from him before because
9:11
he's he's spoken about immigration before.
9:14
But I think he, you know, that's where the line, you know, you
9:17
know, he went over the line with the colonised comment, right?
9:20
And that's where a lot of fans and the public in general have
9:25
taken massive offence to, right? Because, yeah, you've got truth
9:29
tellers now saying like, yeah, Jim's right.
9:31
But I don't think they quite understand the connotations of
9:34
the word, you know, colonised. And obviously, yeah, you can go
9:37
off the Oxford Dictionary and say that is happening in this
9:41
country. But it's a loaded word.
9:44
You know, the historical context, whether you're talking
9:46
about empire, you know, where we're from continent wise,
9:50
Steve, like, you know, Asia, Africa.
9:52
So, yeah, it's a loaded word. And it's in line with everything
9:57
that Jim Ratcliffe has done over the last two years.
10:00
The way he spoke, I mean, and you know, Steve mentioned before
10:04
about his quotes in general, it it reminded me of like when he
10:07
said, you know, if he didn't come in, Manchester United would
10:11
have run out of money. It's just like absolute nonsense
10:14
that, you know, the talk and this is the guy who was in
10:17
favour of Brexit, who voted for Brexit, aligned himself with
10:22
Boris Johnson, then left the country in 2020 to go to Monaco
10:27
and be a resident, you know, and he's not the only billionaire
10:30
who's done that, right? You know, James Dyson's done the
10:33
same. You know, he moved his H key to
10:36
Singapore. So I can't, you know, echo the
10:39
sentence of the lads already in saying that you can be extremely
10:43
rich but you can be insanely thick at the same time,
10:47
especially if it's an area that you don't know any of anything
10:50
about. You know, he's made his money in
10:52
chemicals, but he has no clue about football and he has no
10:56
clue on, you know, what this country needs.
11:00
You know, if he did care, then he would pay his taxes in this
11:04
country. And instead of building out
11:07
plants in Europe, you know, bring some more jobs to the UK
11:11
if it means that much to you. But yeah, I'll keep you on my
11:14
soapbox for a long time, Steve, talking about other people who
11:18
commented. But what about yourself?
11:20
What did you think? Initial reactions.
11:23
Again, obviously, I think surprise is the common theme
11:26
from all of us. And again, yeah, double taking.
11:30
I think even in the interview, is it Ed Conway, Sky News, he
11:34
gave him a chance. He said colonised like, you
11:36
know, double double checked it and, you know, he doubled down,
11:40
Jim. And I think you can kind of see
11:41
in the background someone from any us trying to shut down the
11:44
interview because I think they realised the gravitas of what he
11:47
was saying at that point. So look, in terms of
11:51
politically, like, you know, we all have our views.
11:53
You know, you can get into a whole political argument.
11:56
But I think the issue here is he doesn't realise the magnitude of
12:01
his words and the position he's in as a co-owner of Manchester
12:04
United, the fact that he didn't even foresee these issues, you
12:08
know, prior to saying it. The apology, can we even call it
12:12
an apology? I mean, I'm sorry you're
12:13
offended. That's the classic, you know.
12:16
It's just to to the people, some of the people, right?
12:20
Yeah. It's your problem, right?
12:21
Not mine and and didn't even apologise for getting the the
12:25
incorrect data. So it's like it's making me
12:28
think, is it this type of dodgy data that's leading to the
12:31
decisions of 10 Hog and Ashworth and Amerim, you know, just you
12:35
question everything. So yeah, absolutely baffling in
12:39
terms of, you know, him saying it and the backlash has been
12:43
huge. So Jamie, you touched on it in
12:45
terms of the squad. I want to just dive in to there
12:47
initially, yeah. What do you think the reaction
12:50
of the squad is going to be? The reaction of the squad is
12:53
because obviously you touched on it, obviously immigrants within
12:57
the team, within the club. I think we all probably are
13:00
aware of the story of Ahmad and his background, you know, how he
13:03
came into Europe, etcetera. So yeah, what do you think the
13:06
club's reaction is going to be? You know, Michael Carrick, like
13:10
maybe you've had some early, you know, chats with the club.
13:13
So how's that looking on that side?
13:16
Because of when it occurred haven't had a chance to see
13:20
Carrick. We'll see him on Friday and yeah
13:23
I mean I don't know whether the subject will it will definitely
13:27
come up and you know by the time it becomes my turn because it's
13:31
it's a Monday game. So being embargoed bit so I'll
13:34
go in that part. You know, So what I'm saying is
13:36
maybe the question will have been asked by that'll be
13:39
absolutely staggered if for example, someone like I see be.
13:43
The first question, surely. Yeah, but I I, you know, I so I
13:48
will listen to what's said, how he responds and, you know, sort
13:53
of broaden our sort of address. What else she said.
13:55
On the one hand, I would guess, you know, players aren't as you
14:01
know, players are a bit smarter than maybe some people think
14:03
they are, you know, and and they'll be different sort of
14:06
reactions, but I'm guessing, well, I'm not guessing because
14:10
of what I've been told. There'll be a range of like, Oh
14:13
my God, what they you know what the F word as he said to wow
14:17
this guy. And then there'll be others who
14:19
are sort of like, well, you know, that's owners for you sort
14:22
of thing. I just feel that, you know, Pet
14:25
Guardiola has a rule at City, right, which is the only person
14:29
that speaks for Manchester City Parliament, you know, in a mix
14:33
on right in a flash interview after a game is Pet Guardiola.
14:35
So that means no chief executive, no chairman.
14:37
The chairman does want to sit down interview a year.
14:40
That's Al Mubarak and that's with City TV.
14:42
So obviously control the message and edit it, blah, blah, blah.
14:45
And the reason why he does that Guardiola is so therefore it's
14:48
always the message he wants out there.
14:51
You know. So what I'm saying is this is
14:52
another sign of a not very well run club.
14:55
Listen that that pals a little bit isn't to to the greater
14:59
issue, which I think the stuff he said is just it's not very
15:02
nice. You know, I'm sure they exist,
15:04
but have you ever come across a happy, kind of benevolent,
15:08
generous billionaire? They've got all this money.
15:11
They never seem to be that sort of at ease with themselves and
15:13
the world. They always try to sort of like
15:14
fix other people's lives as if they not better.
15:17
And it's like this old thing, you know, if you want to change
15:19
the world, maybe don't do that. Just sort of change yourself a
15:21
little bit, look at yourself a little bit and it just make, it
15:24
makes me laugh a little bit. That money is held up.
15:28
And of course we all need money. Don't get me wrong, I'm not
15:30
being that sort of unrealistic, but it seems like the richest
15:32
people are. And I'm stereotyping a little
15:34
bit potentially, but these sort of billionaires that are in the
15:38
public eye, I don't know, are any of them really sort of kind
15:42
generous? You know, when I say that, I
15:44
don't necessarily mean with the money.
15:45
I just mean with the way they are towards other people.
15:48
They just don't seem to be pick up particularly.
15:51
And I was thinking if someone is a particularly sort of
15:53
benevolent or warm, that's probably because they're not the
15:55
happy themselves. So anyway, I mean to go back to
15:58
the sort of the football side of it.
16:01
Yeah. I mean, you know, Michael
16:02
Carrick is very good at, you know, it's sort of it's been
16:05
calm and you know, so he he I'll be staggered if he sort of says
16:10
anything that's potentially not controversial.
16:13
We also, I mean, sort of like you, you won't be wanting to,
16:16
even though it's difficult for I think what he will say, it'll be
16:18
worked out with the club. And now the club has put out
16:21
that statement. It's a bit easy for him to sort
16:23
of say, well, you know, as a club, you know, we welcome all,
16:27
you know, it'll just, it'll probably just reflect that
16:29
message in some sort of way. But if you've got anything about
16:32
you, you know, privately, if you're Michael Carrey got
16:34
anything about you, you know, you're not happy because you're
16:36
thinking basically what we're all saying, what are you doing?
16:39
You know what? Why?
16:40
Why do you think, You know, people have to think what they
16:42
like, but sometimes what they think is sort of damaging to
16:48
themselves. Really.
16:49
It just makes Radcliffe look, I'm going to be generous, a bit
16:53
unfortunate, and I'm being polite, you know.
16:56
Yeah, and you know, I don't want to be sort of nasty or rude or
16:59
cutting too much, but yeah, yeah.
17:02
I mean, you know, it's good that you apologise, but as you said,
17:07
I was thinking apology when I'm sorry if I offended, that's not
17:10
an apology. Or how about just I'm sorry for
17:12
saying that I've got the facts wrong.
17:14
I was wrong. You know the facts.
17:16
And you know, I've learned how about that.
17:18
I mean, people might respect it a little bit more.
17:21
Yeah, no, that's fair. I think again, touching on the
17:24
football side, you know, in the interview he kind of mentioned,
17:27
oh, we've had to make difficult decisions at Manchester United
17:30
and they're starting to pay off. Obviously easy to say after a
17:33
few wins with Michael Carrick as interim manager.
17:36
So, Steve, your statement really did focus on that football
17:39
aspect of his comments, right? So do you want to talk a little
17:43
bit more about that? And, you know, I spoke to you on
17:45
Friday last week and, you know, it's fair to say you were pretty
17:48
pissed off because you were getting a lot of backlash that
17:50
your statement focused on the football.
17:52
So, yeah, tell us about, you know, why you kind of stuck to
17:55
that narrative and focused on that area and, and, and the
17:59
backlash, you know how that made you feel.
18:02
I think, I mean, effectively that statement went out of off
18:07
the back of Chris, Chris Wheeler I'd spoken to, firing some
18:13
questions. Now, bearing in mind that this
18:15
is all, everything's happening at 100 miles an hour, I haven't
18:19
even got home from work. You know, Daddy, daddy da.
18:22
And, you know, we threw together a statement based on what Chris
18:25
asked us, which, you know, we covered a little bit of it.
18:30
You look at most statements, it was, you know, a little bit, you
18:34
know, without, because I think when, when stuff starts going
18:37
out that gets political, whatever your views are,
18:40
somebody else will disagree. So you have got to be careful
18:44
with that. And I think unfortunately,
18:47
because of the, the, the, the sort of the immigration side of
18:52
it that we didn't address that within our press statement.
18:58
Then we get the usual faceless trolls on social media coming
19:03
back to the stereotypical where we're racist and you know, this.
19:07
And yes, when we spoke, we, I, I was, you know, I, I was, I'm
19:12
dealing with that left, right and centre.
19:15
And it's just like I can put up with, I knew when I put my face
19:19
out to be, you know, a, a, a contact, if you will, for the
19:24
1958, because prior to me doing this, everything was sort of
19:29
underground and nobody knew who anybody was.
19:31
And I understood the importance of it happening.
19:34
And I also understood that, you know, there may well be backlash
19:38
with that, but I care more about the football club and what's
19:43
happening with it than I actually do about some faceless
19:47
idiots on Twitter who, you know, want to get out there and, and
19:51
create a scene. But I think what really gripes
19:54
me is, is, is the, is the, is the, the chief dig at class
20:01
calling us racist. I mean, last time we spoke lads,
20:03
I explained, I explained to you, I think that they, you know, my
20:07
2 step kids are half Ghanaian, my wife's French, my
20:12
stepdaughter is Indian who's blessed us with our first
20:16
grandchild. You know, we couldn't be
20:18
anymore. And you know, I've seen stuff
20:21
with with Anthony, my stepson growing up.
20:25
I'm having issues, you know, and I've, I've grown up with it,
20:28
dealing with stuff going on at school, you know, and he's, he's
20:31
grown up since he went through the angry stage and he's moved
20:35
on. He's, I mean, unfortunately he's
20:37
a Liverpool fan. But you know, nobody's perfect.
20:41
And then Caitlin, you know, she's just turned 18 now and she
20:45
comes to games when mum can't make it, she'll come to games
20:48
with us. She, she absolutely loves it.
20:51
She loves the the camaraderie within our meeting point.
20:57
I think every, every set of fans have got a meeting point.
21:00
She loves that whether it's before a game or after a game.
21:04
And I think the only thing that I would also touch on with this
21:07
is foolishly Radcliffe's words and comments, as damaging as
21:13
they were, have galvanised this fan base, unfortunately against
21:18
him, but they have galvanised it.
21:20
I've had conversations with, I see from the from the mobile
21:24
Muslim Supporters Club. And, you know, we're meeting up,
21:28
I think one point next week we're going to meet up to
21:31
discuss, you know, and I've heard easy, I've heard the the
21:34
guys interviews of and I think annoyingly, the, the some people
21:40
just don't get football. And there's one thing that is in
21:44
a football ground and certainly Old Trafford is there is no
21:48
definition of colour of skin. No, absolutely none at all.
21:53
Now I can't speak for every football ground around the
21:56
country, but I can say that where I see, and I've seen
22:00
various stories of that ground, I've got, I've met you guys, you
22:04
know, and and it just, it's a galvanization that could really
22:10
backfire on this, on this idiot of a man that that's, you know,
22:14
turning this football club on its arse.
22:17
He's dragging it through the gutter.
22:19
It's it's just one thing. Like you said, we'd have that
22:22
glimmer of hope. Four wins on the bones, that
22:25
last minute equaliser against West Ham.
22:27
All right, we go into a bit of downtime.
22:29
Normally that downtime is like thankful for that.
22:32
There's no football. They can't stress this out.
22:35
Yeah, yeah. But no, he's like.
22:36
Damn, you know, we're looking forward to the net and then no,
22:39
here we are discussing this and it's it's it's draining.
22:44
It really is draining his soul destroying.
22:47
Yeah, it's a great point you make about, you know, when
22:50
you're inside that stadium, when you go through them turnstiles
22:53
or when you get into the vicinity of Old Trafford,
22:55
doesn't matter where you're from, who you are, what colour
22:58
you are, we're all there for a common cause.
23:00
And if anything, I think we touched on this on our pod,
23:03
Jamie, football is like escapism, you know, from our
23:05
everyday lives, from politics. Like you go to football because
23:10
you can escape that nonsense. And Jim has basically brought,
23:14
you know, politics into football.
23:16
And obviously within the fan base, you're clearly going to
23:18
have different views on the politics.
23:21
So it's just unnecessary. And the fact that he can't see
23:25
that easily, it's really, really worrying.
23:27
So Jamie, I want to touch on the glazes because I've read a few
23:31
reports that they are horrified by Jim's comments.
23:34
And I don't think it's because their grandparents are Jewish
23:37
immigrants in the USI think it's more because of the commercial
23:41
impact it's going to have on the club.
23:43
So yeah. And any like wind you're getting
23:46
of their feelings or even just like, yeah, what what you think
23:49
like how they would take this? Yeah, I mean, I obviously don't
23:54
know, you know, I've not had it because no one talks to them.
23:58
Of course, you know exactly what they're thinking.
24:05
I'd like to think that any, you know, any decent human being for
24:10
me, right, This isn't even a question of politics.
24:12
I think it's a question, but I want to sound too sort of sort
24:15
of like morally superior, but of what's right and wrong.
24:17
Yeah, I think that's that for me is kind of, you know, that's why
24:22
I was brought it down to a little bit.
24:23
If you want to go into politics, what's right, what's wrong,
24:25
what's I, you know, I'll get things wrong all the time in
24:28
life. Of course I do.
24:30
But so in this case, I'd like to think that they looked at that
24:32
and thought, you know, and maybe because of because of their
24:37
background, you know, they will have horrible, horrible personal
24:42
family experience because of their heritage, you know,
24:46
because of who they are, where their family's from, and almost
24:49
definitely what they're what they're, you know, the sort of
24:53
antecedent family members went through.
24:56
So I'd like to think it was because of that.
24:58
And, you know, I am sure because I've done this.
25:02
If if Jim Ratcliffe, did I DNA test the thing where you could
25:06
sort of look at. Yeah, DNA.
25:08
So. So my wife got me this kid and
25:10
it turns out I'm 48% Scottish, 1% Irish.
25:13
And they were 50 or whatever it is.
25:15
I'm like from the Caucasus, which is like sort of Turkey,
25:18
Iran, Iraq, right. Yeah.
25:20
See, most people in the, you know, Ratcliffe, I'm guessing if
25:23
you went back far enough because.
25:25
And again, that's why I sort of made a bit of a joker.
25:27
But it sounds like cheese. But actually, I think it's quite
25:29
important. I think once you start thinking
25:31
about yourself as just from this, this Earth and we're only
25:34
here for sort of 7870 or 80 years, it just, it just, it
25:39
baffles me that people are sort of seem so unhappy.
25:41
Like, you know, as I'm sort of saying some of these
25:43
billionaires that they want to go around sort of saying, well,
25:45
you know, I, I, I was a benefits kid, right?
25:49
I, I was single parent family Social Security.
25:51
And I'm so, so grateful for the chance that it gave me, you
25:55
know, the sort of support they gave my family.
25:57
And yeah, I know, you know, you sort of said 9 million people
26:00
are better, but I get it. There'll be some people on there
26:01
who are probably cheating the system.
26:03
But you're telling me there aren't rich people who cheat
26:05
this? You know, there's just because
26:06
you have some people advantages somewhere doesn't mean to say
26:08
that the core idea is wrong. You know, in a way it even makes
26:13
the core idea stronger because you sort of say, well, yeah,
26:16
we're we're still going to do this because we we believe that
26:19
most people are good and they deserve a chance.
26:21
They deserve some support when when they need it most.
26:24
Listen, I, I don't know for sure, but I think if rack you've
26:26
actually sat down and thought all through this and I actually
26:30
said to you, Steve, I know why you laughed it.
26:31
But when I, when I spoke to you outside old traffic, the reason
26:33
why I said to you, or would you like to talk to me is because I
26:36
know he's not going to do it. But I bet you if he, if he
26:38
actually was forced to sit and listen to you and sort of
26:40
understand you. And I admire you for what you do
26:43
because I know it's not easy. When I saw the reaction to your,
26:46
your, your statement, you know, you're talking about being
26:47
accused of rape, I was dismayed. I was like, wow, someone's here
26:50
trying to fight for that, for something that they really
26:52
believe in. They're not being paid.
26:53
They're doing it because they love something.
26:55
They've got a passion. And there's there's a certain
26:57
reaction which says, Oh, this person is XYZ because I haven't
27:00
mentioned what that, you know, it's just such a shame.
27:03
And so, you know, someone like Ratcliffe, a lot of that, I
27:06
think, and and this is, you know, you say about the Indios
27:09
people try to close on the interview.
27:11
This is half the problem. They don't, they're not, they're
27:14
not, they're not list. They're not.
27:16
You call it they're not all the time around kind of different
27:21
sets of people and listening to to sort of different views so
27:24
that you know, they get sort of stuck in a mode of thinking,
27:27
which is like unfortunate. It just had, you know, they've
27:30
just exposed. That's the word they're just
27:32
exposed to sort of, you know, normal people, you know, the.
27:37
Real world. Yeah, Wait a minute.
27:38
What am I doing here? You know what's wrong?
27:41
I don't need to think. Jamie, you know, last year
27:45
there's a, there was a clip like, you know, it hasn't done
27:48
the circles on social media yet, but it was a clip I saw last
27:51
year, Jim Ratcliffe and Dave Brailsford, they were going for
27:55
a mix zone and a journalist was, you know, shouting out to Jim.
28:00
I can't remember what it was about.
28:02
And Jim nearly went over to the journey and Dave Brailsford
28:06
pulled him away. Do you remember that clip?
28:09
That is what Jim Ratcliffe is like, especially since he's been
28:13
at Manchester United. I happen to have actually
28:15
followed him for a little bit because when he was when he
28:18
invested at Mercedes F1, like I got to know his name obviously
28:22
heard he's a Manchester United man.
28:23
He's a billionaire. We want to get rid of the
28:25
glazes. It sounded like, you know, the,
28:27
you know, me, me, Steve's, you know, we talked about it before,
28:30
like tick boxes potentially. There's something there.
28:34
Since he's come in, it's been an absolute disaster in terms of
28:38
what he says publicly. I don't think Ineos have a
28:41
handle. Also from a media perspective of
28:44
Manchester United, like they can't control the narrative
28:47
because Jim says whatever he wants.
28:49
And obviously even with the interviews that, you know, even
28:52
with the Gary Neville 1, you remember when they Gary talked
28:56
about why can't you have a a charity dinner with Bruno
28:59
Fernando's and Harry Maguire raised the 40 grand And Jim's
29:03
response was, well, nobody suggested that.
29:05
I mean, for crying out loud, who you surrounding yourselves with
29:09
then, right. In terms of the staff at, you
29:11
know, Manchester United with Ineos in particular.
29:14
So like, I don't know if he's got yes men around him, you
29:18
know, just generally it looks like it.
29:19
But like this is a big problem. And even from a social
29:22
perspective, he's a billionaire. So does he have any clue even at
29:27
our level in terms of what we want and what we do on a daily
29:32
basis doesn't even have a clue about the people who are on
29:35
benefits and the lives that they live, right.
29:37
To your point, yes, some people will be cheating the system, but
29:41
there's a there's probably a good case that, you know, quite
29:44
a few of them actually need, you know, the social care or the
29:46
welfare state money that they're on.
29:48
So for him to say things like, yeah, it's costing too much.
29:53
We've seen this before with what he did with the staff.
29:55
He's he's canned nearly 500 people at Manchester United.
29:59
There's, you know, articles going now in the commercial
30:02
department about the fact that we can't even fly people out to
30:06
go and meet, you know, global partners like we can before.
30:09
So that's why we're struggling with certain sponsorship deals.
30:12
Like there was a deal I think with Marriott that wasn't
30:16
renewed recently. So do you know what I mean?
30:19
It's like it's all interlinked with Jim Radcliffe.
30:21
And, you know, we've said it before, it's like they claim
30:25
that it's a team with like Omar Barada making decisions, Jason
30:29
Wilcox making sporting decisions.
30:31
But we know it's all underpinned by Jim Radcliffe, right?
30:34
Whatever he says they do, they've spent £37 million on
30:38
compensation on 10 hog. Dan Ashworth and Reuben Amarin
30:43
speaks for itself. I think, I think also just
30:47
touching on that is, you know, I think his arrogance would almost
30:53
lead him to think that if somebody wants to sponsor Man
30:56
United then they'll come and knock on our door.
30:59
You know, and that's the one thing, and it is probably the
31:02
only one thing I could ever give the Blazers any credit for was
31:06
only commercialised football. You know, I don't know if you've
31:10
the the story about the black box where they actively there
31:14
was the first ever football club that they had these amazingly
31:19
prestige black boxes put together with a football shirt
31:23
in it, with a Fonto album of historic moments.
31:28
But what they did was whoever they sent it to as a company,
31:33
they embossed that shirt with the logo.
31:35
They put their logos on the shirts of all these moments, you
31:39
know, and they, they, they painted the pictures and, and,
31:42
and sold the dream and people were falling over the club to
31:45
sponsor us. I mean, this the, I think the
31:48
damage in the follow from this. Who in the right mind right now
31:53
if they was considering throwing money at Man United through
31:58
sponsorship? It would be an absolute, you
32:01
know, it's a minefield at the minute, isn't it?
32:04
It would even consider it. It's suicide to me.
32:08
Steve, actually on that point, you remember your, your meeting
32:12
with Richard Arnold at the pub, didn't he tell you that actually
32:16
protesting does make a difference?
32:18
Because you know, the, the partners in particular, they,
32:21
they don't like it, right? Whether it's image perspective
32:24
or, you know, like I think we have done it in the past where
32:27
fans have pillared, you know, ratings online and stuff like
32:30
that, right? So even Richard Arnold's told
32:32
you like protesting or like, you know, the the impact, right.
32:37
So imagine when you got, you know, a shareholder saying what
32:41
he said to a global audience when we need global sponsorship,
32:46
it's it's hugely damaging, like commercially, right.
32:49
Like that's not the biggest point obviously, but just saying
32:52
from a club perspective. It's all a backlash to what was
32:55
said though, isn't it? That's that, that's the whole
32:57
point behind it. And you know, they, this, this
33:01
guy is, to me, he's just a, he's a walking disaster, absolute
33:05
walking disaster. And I think for the for very,
33:09
for the very little we've heard out of his mouth publicly, I
33:14
actually think he's a vile human being.
33:15
I don't think he's got any moral compass whatsoever, for whatever
33:19
his reasons. Maybe is, is his wealth can
33:23
dictate that he, he doesn't need to have any interaction with
33:27
anybody else in the real world, but that, you know, that's how
33:30
he's perceiving himself. And whether he likes it or not,
33:34
he is when he put himself in front of Man United to run the,
33:39
the, the, the sport sporting aspect of it.
33:42
And I've heard from quite a few sources that Jim Radcliffe, he
33:47
will run everything. Barada, you know, Wilcox,
33:52
everybody else, he, he has the last say in everything and that
33:56
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34:25
So Jamie, just want to touch on the stadium because we've talked
34:28
about this. I think in fact, when I first
34:29
met you, I think I was saying about moving that fucking
34:32
railway line. And you you mentioned meeting
34:35
Andy Burnham, obviously, who's come out to condemn, condemn the
34:38
comments. You know, again, we touched on
34:40
it, Rachel Reeves, Keir Starmer, these are people you need on the
34:43
side, right? So surely this is not going to
34:45
help the new stadium project, which to me looked unlikely
34:48
anyway. But surely, you know he's just
34:51
made it even harder, right? Yeah.
34:53
I mean, I'd like to think that, you know, that they they would,
34:59
they would sort of be so appalled that the sort of
35:02
politically I think the issue they've got is it is supposed to
35:06
be for the wider area. You know, the sort of
35:08
regeneration, by the way, just like any city, probably most
35:11
towns and villages in our country, the sort of people he's
35:14
slating, the immigrants, there'd be loads of people with heritage
35:17
from elsewhere in that area. They supposed to be supposed to
35:19
be benefits. So there, you know, even that
35:21
yourself makes what he's saying is absolutely ridiculous and not
35:26
very nice. But yeah, I, I, I mean, this
35:28
stage, it was interesting, sort of Steve touched upon.
35:33
I'm not even sure they know the design of it.
35:36
You know, could we have that the sort of if I call it the circus
35:39
top thing, but apparently that might be in the balance and
35:42
there's no real date. No, the Burnham thing is sort of
35:44
interesting because, yeah, they put him up and maybe one of the
35:47
very initial sort of public things about this in the press
35:51
room at Old Trafford. And I had a bit of a sort of
35:53
like, you know, I don't know how you'd call it, but a little bit
35:56
forensic going over at Burnham sort of saying about your point
35:58
about the bridge, sort of saying really you're actually saying
36:01
that you can't it isn't within your gift in essence to sort of
36:04
sort this, this track out. If you really, you know, that
36:06
that that was their argument of why they can't extend, you know,
36:09
the current Old Trafford or make it out because I was like,
36:11
really. And he looked a little bit and I
36:14
just I didn't actually say this to him.
36:16
I was speaking crums, but I did, I did actually say to him, you
36:20
know, this guy is one of our richest people, You know, does
36:23
he really need sort of public money?
36:25
And I'll just kind of behind that was your labour.
36:28
You're supposed to be sort of, I don't know how to say this sort
36:30
of for the right reasons in politics.
36:32
And you sort of like, you know, if you're kind of you're in
36:37
partnership, whatever we're going to call it business.
36:39
I don't know, with a guy here who doesn't, you know, he's
36:42
moved to Monaco. He's in, you know, to avoid all
36:44
these taxes, doesn't contribute too much at the moment.
36:47
Yeah. He's wanting government money.
36:50
And I know since they're saying, you know, no, you know, it'll
36:53
all be private money for this specific stadium, but it won't
36:56
all you know, there's going to be a lot of bad.
36:58
Listen, if there wasn't any benefits for Jim Radcliffe's
37:01
sort of bottom line, he would not be interested in in this
37:03
stadium for you just wouldn't. As I said to you before, if you
37:05
don't know the answer, it's money.
37:06
You do know the answer, it's money.
37:07
You know what I mean? Of course, this is going to be a
37:10
wider regeneration. It all feels a little bit
37:13
Emperor's new clubs, you know, and you go back to, I don't
37:17
know, I mean Manchester United through Manchester United.
37:20
It's a little bit like, I don't know, it's like a, you know,
37:23
it's like an institution. So part of what we're talking
37:25
about here is because it's such a massive deal and so
37:29
interesting and glamorous and got a global reach this this
37:33
issue here, which is obviously awful.
37:35
The ownership I'm talking about here, the Glazers and Radcliffe,
37:38
it's kind of comes, you know, it needs to be sorted out, but at
37:42
the same time it's a sign of what a big you know, it wouldn't
37:44
happen at Chelsea, it wouldn't happen at Manchester City.
37:46
I'm not even sure it'd happen at Liverpool.
37:48
That's the club I'd really sort of point of level United in
37:51
terms of titles. So you know, you're sort of
37:53
saying so this is an unfortunate by product what an amazing
37:58
football club Manchester United is.
38:00
And I just, you know, I'm sort of before I'm just wondering if
38:03
before the time I sort of, you know, go to hell, where for this
38:07
this issue will be resolved. But I'm all up like better
38:09
ownership because, you know, it seems to be going on forever and
38:13
ever. But everything does end.
38:15
And, you know, maybe in 10 years time, we'll all be looking back
38:18
thinking car that that that wasn't very nice at all.
38:20
Those sort of 2025 years of Glazer stroke rack of ownership.
38:23
But now look at the the club and it's in safe hands, You know,
38:27
going back to the billionaires, sure, there's a billionaire out
38:29
there who not only is really nice, but we'd like to buy
38:32
Manchester United and sort of like do the right thing.
38:34
Now where are they come? On yeah, no, it's a great point
38:40
and like, you know, we're 20 years down the line with the
38:42
Glazers, you know, 2 and a bit years down the line with any us
38:46
involved now. And Steve, it's funny because,
38:49
you know, we we've obviously spoken a few times on this pod
38:51
and, you know, outside the pod and, you know, the protest pre
38:55
the Fulham game, you know, got got good numbers and a good
38:58
coverage. And, you know, we would talk in,
39:00
you know, post and says about, oh, what's the next steps?
39:03
And, you know, we know the challenge is our fan base.
39:06
We are divided sometimes in how we want to go about things, what
39:10
we think about the owners, what we think about managers.
39:12
But you mentioned it earlier, Has he actually galvanised our
39:16
fan base and almost in some ways, if the goal is to get the
39:20
Glazers and in US out, has he done us a favour?
39:23
Because we talked about the perfect storm and if anything,
39:26
he's just had a massive thunderstorm upon us over the
39:31
last week. It's yeah.
39:34
I mean, the last protest was it's, I think everything we do
39:40
now is, you know, we've over the four years we've been going,
39:45
we've stayed, you know, we've gained credibility certainly
39:49
with the media. You know, we're trusted with
39:53
with, with the media and you know, it's, I suppose it's a,
39:57
it's a flavour of story that the media have have latched onto,
40:01
which helps us no end. And we, you know, we absolutely
40:07
appreciated no end. But I still think that the the
40:13
the fanbase and certainly the matchgoing fanbase, I don't
40:17
really know how much more I was disappointed with the numbers
40:21
for that, for that, that that's my personal, I was disappointed.
40:27
I don't know, I don't know how bad he's got to get before
40:30
people start thinking right, I ain't got a minute.
40:33
There are options for us to escalate protests and do other
40:38
things, but you can't do it with a couple of 1000 people.
40:42
It's not possible. It'd just be a complete waste of
40:45
of time and and you know, boycotting going in late.
40:51
We did it against filler when we marched all the way from from
40:55
the town centre. We stayed out for 18 minutes.
40:59
The few thousand that stayed out for that amount of time.
41:02
It was live on Sky. You wouldn't.
41:05
We watched the game back and the only, the only reason that you,
41:08
you knew something was going on is because there was actually
41:12
wafts of, of the smoke flows, the green, yellow, red smoke
41:17
flows actually wafted into the ground ever so slightly.
41:23
You know, we've, we'd stopped in the tunnel to create that, that
41:27
blockage safely, obviously, and in line with what GMP allow us
41:33
to do. And, you know, one of our lads
41:37
got punched in the face by someone that was desperate to
41:40
get to his seat. And he think, you know what,
41:43
what's sometimes why, just why? But you know, I understand
41:48
there's, there's a lot of people go to Old Trafford as a as a one
41:52
off. They spend a hell of a lot of
41:54
money. They spend a lot of money
41:57
travelling from all over the world.
41:59
And that's great. You know, I've, I've said it on
42:02
numerous occasions. There's enough room for
42:04
hospitality and horrible Turnbull legacy funds to be in
42:09
every single football grown in the country.
42:13
Percent. No issue with the hospitality.
42:15
But what we have got is we've got 50,000 or just shy of season
42:20
ticket holders. So, you know, where are these
42:24
people? Are these people not worried
42:26
about what they're saying? Are they not worried about
42:28
what's happening? Are they not listening to to,
42:33
you know, the words that are coming out of Ratcliffe's mouth?
42:36
And it's and I, I, it bamboozles me sometimes because I get sort
42:42
of question in the world. We we didn't know what was
42:44
happening. And it's like, OK, I, I how we
42:48
can spread the word any more than being all over national
42:53
media prior to a protest on, you know, on TV everywhere.
42:59
You know, we had, we had, we didn't even, I mean, I've worked
43:02
tirelessly with Sky at the last protest, the Fulham game and we
43:07
actually got an interview. We got together and, and did an
43:09
interview but sadly was never heard because some fans decided
43:14
it was comical to start chanting about Sky TV and the camera.
43:19
I'd, you know, we asked politely, just give us 2
43:22
minutes. But you know, sometimes that
43:23
kind of mentality sort of shoots, shoots us in the
43:27
football. It won't deter us and it won't
43:30
stop us. We'll we'll, we'll look at other
43:32
avenues. We'll look at probably what
43:35
we've not done for a while is the online stuff.
43:37
And certainly in light of what's happened targeting sponsors,
43:41
etcetera, you know, and that's something where every fan can
43:47
get involved. So your online fan base, you
43:49
know, it's what we did previously was just set up an
43:52
e-mail template. All you had to do was copy, put
43:55
in the e-mail addresses supplied were to send it to and away you
43:59
go. So you know that there'll be
44:01
there'll be options. We've not decided if and what
44:05
we're going to do for our next on game.
44:08
I believe it's a couple of weeks away as of Sunday.
44:12
I'm away for a few days. So it'll certainly won't be
44:15
entering my head until until I'm back and but yeah, we shall see.
44:22
Yeah, no, fair enough. And I think like, you know,
44:24
sometimes it's probably hard for you to see the progress because
44:27
you're in the thick of it. But even just like you mentioned
44:30
there, you're planning a meeting with the Muslim fan group.
44:33
And also there was a unity statement I think that came out
44:35
on Friday between yourselves and and must write.
44:39
So that's that's steps in the right direction in terms of
44:42
trying to unify the different parts of our support.
44:45
Yeah, absolutely massive. I mean, the, the, the Unity
44:50
charter, we've been working on behind the scenes for a hell of
44:53
a long time. And I think just through timing
44:57
of stuff we've been doing, stuff that must have been doing, you
45:00
know, and it's just, it's taken forever.
45:03
But I would say by nobody's no particular side's fault.
45:08
It's just taken a long time. But you know, we've agreed that
45:12
we will, you know, we're not this, this is not us becoming
45:16
one voice. We, we, we will work together
45:20
and that's the main thing because our football club has
45:22
always lived on division, division within the fan base.
45:27
They love it. I'm sure there'll be people at
45:31
Manchester United watching the backlash we get online from
45:36
supposedly Man United supporters.
45:39
And what, what, you know, whatever it is that the, the,
45:42
the, the moaning about that division is what gives the club
45:46
hope. You know, whether it's the
45:48
racism, whether it's you need to do more.
45:52
And it's quite comical because they're usually faceless
45:55
accounts that come up with this. And you know the old motto, do
45:58
as I say, not as I do. And it's like, well, get
46:01
involved. If you've got some ideas, get in
46:03
touch. But.
46:05
Yeah, and we'll hear from them. We'll definitely be speaking
46:07
offline, Steve, because. Yeah, you have to be.
46:09
Well, we already have one of Fury's Jeep.
46:10
Yes, on few things SO. Yeah, exactly.
46:13
So, yeah, it's it's a it's a war, not a battle.
46:16
Let's put it that way. So let's see how it how it
46:19
transpires. Ash, I'm going to let you close
46:20
here. We need to let Jamie go soon.
46:22
He's on the sabbatical. So I think you've got a a final
46:25
closing point you'd like to make.
46:28
Well, I mean it was just like echoing some of what the lad
46:30
said, like in terms of the Andy Burnham, Keir Starmer angle.
46:35
I do wonder actually is has there been talks behind the
46:39
scenes where the public money won't be available?
46:43
And that's why, you know, Jim's motivation as well as
46:46
politically was also to put pressure and also like
46:50
potentially, yeah, align himself with future governments.
46:53
I'm not going to mention the names.
46:55
Don't they don't need the PR. But yeah, I do wonder, you know,
46:59
there's there's that angle in terms of, yeah, what he said to
47:05
provoke her reaction because you you said it as well, right?
47:09
Ed Conway from Sky, he said in the US tried to shut down that
47:13
interview. So, yeah, I mean, in terms of
47:17
like what's been said, it's disgraceful.
47:20
And you know, we hope that we can move past this, keep
47:25
protesting. I think the online protesting is
47:29
definitely a way to go forward because we need to hit them in
47:32
the pocket if we can't do it, you know, by protesting like in
47:36
stadiums. And we just need to make sure
47:40
that we can do everything we can.
47:43
Like one thing I was surprised in terms of when Jim said what
47:47
you said. I didn't actually expect the
47:50
reaction like to be as aggressive towards him, which
47:55
I'm happy about obviously because he's run this club, you
47:58
know, like a shit show for the last couple of years.
48:01
And also like, you know, the support even from like the
48:04
football community just generally towards Manchester
48:06
United fans, the players, the Manchester United staff, because
48:11
I think the lads have already touched on it.
48:13
It's a diverse staff as well, right?
48:16
And we're not just talking about the office people, we're talking
48:19
about the stewards, the people who, you know, you know, behind
48:22
the scenes in hospitality, you know, we, we've seen these
48:26
faces, right? And they're not the faces that
48:28
Ratcliffe seems to want in this perfect world of his.
48:32
So yeah, we will keep fighting. And you know, I can only say,
48:38
Steve, it's only fair if you have like the final, final
48:41
closing words. Well, I was just looking at that
48:44
portrait behind you certain Eric Canton are right.
48:47
And I believe you know his background.
48:50
You know his, I think it's his grandparents, immigrants in
48:53
Spain, I want to say, but I think he's come out even and,
48:57
you know, puts and posts out against what Jim's done.
49:00
So it's just everywhere you look, you know, the people that
49:04
are against what Jim has said. It's clear for me.
49:08
So I don't really need to add to it.
49:09
I'm like you said, Ash, I'm happy with the backlash because
49:13
it adds fuel to the fire that we're trying to create and
49:17
getting these owners out. So watch this space.
49:20
I'd say let's see how this end of season goes.
49:22
We want Carrick to do well. We want to get in the Champions
49:24
League, but we will be working behind the scenes to try and get
49:29
these owners out. May not happen, but we will
49:31
certainly try. So thanks for joining us on this
49:35
episode, and we'll catch you on the next one.