Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.227: 'Avoiding the Booby Traps of Breast Weight Management' with special guest Siobhan O'Donovan

Transcript

Ep.227: 'Avoiding the Booby Traps of Breast Weight Management' with special guest Siobhan O'Donovan · The STA Clinician Podcast

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You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence
0:04
back into soft tissue therapy.
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Music.
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And we are live, hey people, how are you doing? Welcome to the Sports Therapy Association podcast.
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My name is Matt Phillips, creative runshacklive.com.
0:26
And as always this episode
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is being recorded live at eight o'clock on a
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tuesday evening on the sports therapy association youtube channel and
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facebook page so yeah it's a new month new dawn and with that we're bringing
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a new focus and this month as you will have seen advertised on the sports therapy
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association podcast the focus is on women's health we've got an amazing if i
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say myself an amazing four-part series of women's health focused episodes lined up for you this month,
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including special guests Christine Byrne and Joan McEwan from Menopause Movement,
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Dr Gemma Parry from the English Institute of Sports, and Michelle Lyons at Celebrate Moody Ebrity.
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And tonight, in part one of this focus on women's health, we are delighted to
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be joined by special guest Siobhan O'Donovan.
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Aka the Booby Physio, who caused a storm of interest
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at last year's therapy expo with her presentation about the impact that
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breast weight management can have on the physical psychological
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and social health of women and girls so
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if you have joined us live do feel free as always to ask
1:27
questions in the comments section if you listen to the
1:30
podcast and that's the one of the many bonuses of joining us live
1:33
is you can interact on the screen if you
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come in here and leave a little question i can bring you up on the screen like i'm
1:38
doing so at the moment nicky mansfield says evening everybody see what
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i did there oh here we go evening everybody it started
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thank you for that nicky really looking forward to this a
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subject i can honestly say i've never really given much thought about and i
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own a pair good nicky setting the tone for tonight wonderful thanks
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nicky and yeah so you can have your photo
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up there people if you want to join us you can have share where
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you are and that sort of stuff brian huxley is in the house as
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well saying hello everybody cecily hislop it says get
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on get on get on get on get on my beauties a
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lot of kind of diversity and and different dialects happening tonight which
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is wonderful to see as always and tracy marsh says evening or welcome so as
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always i really do thank you guys for joining us live and people are still coming
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through the door and the feedback we get constantly is thanks for doing it live
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even though i can't join it's really nice to hear this happening on the spot
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instead of kind of editing and put together so anything can happen,
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And Gary Benson as well, founder of the STA, is in the house tonight.
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We'll be sharing important links and things probably in the comments section
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if you should need them. Hey, Gary, thanks for joining us.
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Right then. I think that's everything in place. So without further ado,
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I shall bring our guest up.
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Like I say, questions as much as you can, people. That's why you're here.
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Let's start episode 227, Avoiding the Booby Traps of Breast Weight Management,
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with special guest Siobhan O'Donovan.
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Hey, Siobhan, how are you doing? Hey, Matt, I'm good, thank you. Thank you for having me.
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I love every boobie. I like that. I'll be Nikki, if it's okay,
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I'll be feeling that and using that again.
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Yes, yes, I think in the interaction we've had so far organising tonight,
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then there's been, shall I say, maybe two puns, maybe a few more than that.
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Yeah, so we're looking forward to that. And people, you're welcome to join in the comment section.
3:24
Great, so thank you so much for giving up the time and kicking off this four-episode
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special on women's health. It was such an important topic, which obviously we're
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very excited to get into shortly.
3:33
Just to let people know, where are you in the world, talking of different dialects?
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So I'm in West Cork, right down at the very bottom of the southwest coast of
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Ireland, where we have a bit of microclimate sometimes and a bit of madness sometimes.
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So we had the mad storm and then raging sunshine the day after it.
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It was literally the calm after it.
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So yeah, that's where I am. But thanks to the wonders of the internet,
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I am worldwide with what I do, really.
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So a lot of my work now is done with therapists and patients literally worldwide, which is great.
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I do see some patients face to face and they have to come to see me here or
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I have the best waiting room in the world, by the way, looking out on the water.
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Or I see them in Cork City. I'm about 50 minutes from Cork City.
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Fantastic. Thank you, Nick.
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And obviously I've mentioned in the intro, you made it to Therapy Expert.
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Was that the first time you've been a therapy experiment in last november yes
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great we were talking briefly about that off air it seems like such a long time
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ago now but i mean we were talking about how it's so nice to see,
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multidisciplinary and people mixing together and so you noticed that
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as well and you've probably been to a lot of places you've got a long history
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in it so it's good to see for you is it yeah absolutely it just felt like a
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really nice community you know with with just just lots of yeah just just i
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thought there was a really good feel good vibe there so i really liked that
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They would like to hear that.
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Right then. So I guess my first question should be, and I haven't,
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yeah, my first question will be, how does a former Irish international scrum
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half become the booby physio? Was that always the plan?
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When people said, what do you want to be when you were a little girl growing up? What did you say?
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I don't think I ever said, I want to be the booby physio. I mean,
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I will check with siblings, but no, I don't think that was on the radar.
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That kind of all happened a bit later.
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You know how life opens doors and different doors take you different places.
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So basically, I was always very active as a youth a long time ago,
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as we've already discussed, Matt.
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I decided because, you know, we literally were talking about the 80s when I
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was looking at what profession I wanted to get into.
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And I knew I wanted to work within sport and activity.
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I had never come across a therapy profession. but
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it just never happened within our family that anybody had ever needed like
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there was doctors nurses but that was probably about
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it really dentists and and I didn't have
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a desire to go into any of
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those kind of areas didn't really want to be hospital based but I did want to
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work within the sports and activity environment so basically the only thing
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open and and again that you know there's an interesting thing with the gender
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equity whole kind of side of it as well but the only thing open to me was becoming
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a PE teacher which was grand actually because I loved teaching and I always have loved teaching.
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And like I used to play camogie, which is a legalized form of violence that
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we have over here, where basically you take a stick that looks kind of like
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a hockey stick, but with a flat bit and you can hit the ball in the air and
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anybody else that gets in the way is just, you know,
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kind of unfortunate consequence.
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No, that's not, it's the fastest field game in the world. It's brilliant.
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Loved it. It was a really important part of my life. I saw that game.
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Sorry to interrupt, but thank you for that. Are you watching Bad Sisters at the moment?
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No, but I need to. Well, there we go because that game was on it and I was trying
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to remember the name of the sport on it and she's watching her daughter and
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that was the game. Sorry.
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So the female game is called Komogi and the male game is called Hurling.
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And here's an interesting aside. Hurling was 15 aside.
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When I was playing, Komogi was 12 aside or 11, 12, 12.
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But we played on the same bloody pitch. So we had to run further than they had to do.
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Typical. Anyway, now it's 15 aside. But anyway.
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I played, so I used to coach like the camogie, the junior side.
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So I knew that teaching was something that I was kind of keen on and went and did that.
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And in my third of a four year degree, we were introduced to exercise physiology,
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how the body works and sports injuries.
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And I was like, oh, and I was really interested in the fact that I now was going
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to have responsibility for kids whom I could give exercises to that might maybe
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not be great for them. But they were all going to believe me.
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And that really actually came to be when I got my, I got a job in London.
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So I did my, did my penance in London.
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I taught in London for a year, loved it, absolutely loved it.
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But one of my colleagues went off on a training course and she came back and
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she said, everything we do in our warmup is contraindicated.
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And we were all like, what is this word contraindicated? so
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like we had to look it up because it was a new word but basically there were
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exercises that were that we were doing that once sports science started as a
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field and sport and exercise science there was some analysis done of movement
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and it was kind of like oh wonder wonder whether that's such a good plan now
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obviously we've kind of come.
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Not full circle, but we've come around to being able to see that movement is
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a good thing and, you know, not to get too hung up on too many form situations.
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But then equally, you know, there is that balance.
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And I think one of the things that I've also come to following the big long
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circle of where I've come to is that we do need to have a bit of balance in life.
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I think sometimes you can go, the pendulum just swings too far.
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And I think there's a bit of a knee jerk reaction sometimes to things.
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So it was like, you cannot move that way.
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You must not do that as opposed to you can move any way you like.
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You know, let's find somewhere that there is a happy medium.
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But anyway, I got really interested in while I was in while I was in London.
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I still wanted to kind of study more on the injury side and and very much about
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preventing exercise or preventing injury, because I really became very aware
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of my responsibility as as a teacher.
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And I really became very aware of the fact that none of these exercises really
9:30
had any science behind them or had
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any analysis we were just teaching what somebody had taught us to teach.
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So anyway i went off to the states and did my master's over
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there in health science with a focus on sports
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injury prevention and management and there's a profession in the states which
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i'm sure you're aware of called certain athletic training so the person who
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comes on the court at wimbledon is a trainer that is the very specific sports
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medicine profession over there and that's That's what I did my master's in and
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I did my professional qualification in that and worked over there,
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got great experience in a large orthopaedic sports medicine clinic there,
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where we had literally everything on site. Talk about spoils.
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I had somebody who came to see me in the morning from the local university and
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she was in surgery that afternoon.
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Like it was, yeah, it was, it was amazing, but very inspiring from the point
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of view of making sure that we were being interdisciplinary with our approach
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within multidisciplinary environments.
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So that was that. And then I came back to the UK, ran my own place in the UK
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for 14 and a half, 15 years in Lancashire.
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Worked with lots of teams and then came back over to Cork about 17 years ago,
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16 years ago, something like that.
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Was that what you asked me? Oh, yeah, I was right. Sorry, I told you.
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So basically, when I came back, and I'll answer my question now.
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When I came back, I had so I had been very much focusing in the sports field myself.
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And then as I came back to choose to be in Cork, which is the smaller of the
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two big cities in Ireland, knew that in doing that, that I was going to be going
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into an area where the sports market was probably reasonably saturated.
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So but I was also finding myself talking to people more and more about the positions
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that they were sitting in or the way they were moving or what they were doing
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during their day and how they were sleeping and things like that.
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And not how they were sleeping in terms of position, I should say,
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rather than the quality of their sleep at the time.
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And I just kind of felt I was actually, without any disrespect meant to anybody,
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I was having conversations with people where I was realizing that a lot of people
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were actually self-inflicting problems because of not having enough understanding
11:45
of how their bodies worked or what they needed to do to keep things mobile and so on.
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So I suppose that kind of brought me more into the posture road and having those
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conversations, you know, very much in the let's try and prevent you from having a problem.
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I do not want you back to see me with the same problem because one of the two
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of us hasn't done our job right.
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And then the breast side of it happened purely by chance.
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When I'd been in Lancashire, Sunday supplements, Trini and Susanna,
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they had talked about, you know, what women wear.
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They talked about the fact that they used to use a bra fitter in London.
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And I was in London for the prams with my mother-in-law. We had an hour and
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a half to kill. I was like, come on, let's go into one of these places and see what it's all about.
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And just absolutely life-changing. Walked out the door an inch taller,
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felt like I was ready to take on the world would have gone up on stage at the
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Royal Albert Hall if they were short.
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I absolutely was and the psychological bit of it was the bit that was really
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I suppose very obvious for me because physically I was doing okay.
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I wasn't particularly in need of extension because I was doing a lot of weights
12:55
because of rugby but suddenly it was like oh my god this is like I'm just,
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I'm just, gravity, who are you? Like, I've got you. I'm on top.
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And then that kind of made me go, well, if I'm feeling that way,
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how's that going to be for my patients?
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So I just started to look at it from the point of view of my patients.
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Then everybody who came in the door and pulling on their brass strap going, you know, that's wrong.
13:20
You know, that's wrong. And then the problem was I couldn't fix it.
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So I could tell them when they were in something that wasn't the right size.
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And that's where my statistic of 100% of women in the wrong bra started and
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is still at 100% for everybody we've seen.
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But I kind of realised, I don't know how to advise you now. So I would send them off to be fitted,
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And then they'd come back in something that was just as bad in a lot of cases.
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Not everybody, but mostly. So I just didn't have anybody that I could rely on.
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And then I was kind of like, well, why am I relying on somebody else to do this?
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Why is my patient relying on somebody else to do this?
13:59
This is something that we should learn how to do ourselves. It's not rocket science.
14:04
You know, I tend to page Dr. Ockham quite a lot because I'm very much into simple
14:08
solutions. And it's not a very complex situation to know how to fit a bra on yourself.
14:16
And if you do, then it changes a lot of things in your life in terms of your
14:22
ability to withstand gravity.
14:24
So I kind of went, OK, I'm going to learn how to do it and then I'm going to
14:27
teach people. And that's basically what we do.
14:30
And hence, it was all posture fitting. Posture fitting was your dental. Yeah, yeah.
14:36
And it was very important for me that we looked at more than just the bra.
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So the idea with doing this as a therapy-based intervention is that we have internal support,
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which is what we can do ourselves through alignment, posture,
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whatever you want to call it, and then we have external support.
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And what happens is everybody relies on the external support,
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and that's in most cases poor.
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And there's very little recognition of the fact that actually there's a lot
15:09
we can do internally to support breast weight because, and that's where the
15:13
posture side comes in because breast weight is part of torso weight.
15:17
And so if torso weight is in a constant flex position, then gravity is winning
15:22
and everything is being taken into that position.
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And then it just becomes so much harder to come back up away from that,
15:30
You know, I did put my head above the parapet there in, well,
15:33
at TherapyXO, but also in the
15:35
last, I suppose, couple of months talking to Jack and Jack Chu and so on.
15:40
In that, I do think the pendulum has swung too far with the whole posture conversation.
15:45
And I think the fact that we have stopped talking to patients about it,
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we're losing sight of the fact that posture affects function.
15:54
Okay, let's put it in that because I've got so many questions to ask you based
15:58
on what you said so far. And I definitely want to come back to that positive
16:00
thing because I'd like, same way as Jack did, kind of touched on this as well,
16:03
definitely I think I'm going to come from the same angle with that.
16:05
But my first question I'd want to get an answer for is, I mean,
16:10
breasts have been around for quite a long time now, depending on what religion
16:12
you are or how far you go back.
16:15
Why is it that fitting is still an issue?
16:18
Why are there these professionals who've been working for so long and yet women are coming out of there?
16:21
And as you say, they're coming to your clinic and you're going,
16:23
what have they done? What have they given you? Why is that going on, do you think?
16:28
Well, I think there's an element of it is something that is not the same as the male physique.
16:37
And therefore, it's not been considered as something that's important or that
16:41
has a role or that has a significance. Aside from, you know,
16:44
there are obviously sexualization roles.
16:46
You know, there is breastfeeding, which is, you know, clearly a very functional role.
16:51
But I don't think anybody has ever actually looked at the physical or the psychological
16:57
or the social impact that unsupported or poorly supported breast weight has.
17:02
So it's just never been on the radar.
17:05
I mean I didn't do anything about it in any of my education.
17:09
I've yet to meet anybody in either their undergraduate or in postgraduate stuff
17:14
afterwards who whoever really, aside from conversations about breast cancer, which is.
17:21
Absolutely as it should be. But outside of that, there are no conversations
17:25
about it. It's just not something we study.
17:28
So the people doing the fitting, like whether it be Marks and Spencer's or Next
17:32
or any other Rectable or High Street that offers a kind of bra fitting service,
17:36
what are they being taught?
17:38
What are they basing this whole fitting thing on? Because it sounds like a great
17:41
service and we encourage people to go along there.
17:43
But from the sounds of it, what our listeners
17:46
shouldn't be picking up is advise your clients to go to like
17:49
a bra fitting service because it could be and it depends
17:52
is the answer right and that's and as soon
17:55
as you're based you're basing an answer on it depends it depends on
17:58
the training of the person it depends on the environment that
18:02
they're in but the problem is you cannot rely on it unless you've been in mystery
18:07
shops and you know that you're happy with the service they're providing but
18:11
also they will only do the external side so that's the other thing to keep in
18:15
mind because they're not they don't have the knowledge to do the internal side.
18:20
But one of the problems, and one of the, I have to be careful here,
18:25
the large department stores that shall remain nameless, but that are really,
18:29
really good at marketing braffeting, started using a technique that began in the 40s.
18:35
And a lot of the larger department stores used that for a long time.
18:40
What you'll find is that the smaller independent lingerie stores tend to have
18:45
better training because they've been trained by the brands and there's been
18:49
a move away from this technique whereby you'll love this you get a measuring
18:54
tape you put around a person's girth and then you add four inches to it.
19:00
Why? Why would you add four inches to a piece of clothing that you want to support your breasts?
19:06
And 80% of the support comes from the band.
19:09
So that girth needs to be snug and anchored to the body so that it's supporting the breasts.
19:15
If it's four inches bigger, it's moving around.
19:18
If it's moving around, your boobs are moving around. If your boobs are moving
19:21
around, that's going to affect your performance, blah, blah,
19:23
lots of other consequences.
19:25
And unfortunately the other side of that then is that you end up potentially
19:30
looking somebody sent me this picture of Beyonce today I don't know whether you've seen it,
19:35
I'm just going to put that up there to see oh where's the camera,
19:38
who's there no you can't really see it properly but the wires are sticking out of her dress alright,
19:46
it's not showing is it, I'll send it to you oh there you go,
19:51
poking right into her now that's what happens when you wear a band that's too
19:56
big, you end up with a cup that's too small.
19:59
Why any stylist put her in that is beyond me. I'm going to have to put it down
20:03
because it's upsetting me.
20:05
She does that to me as well. What happens with, if the band is too big,
20:11
the cup is going to be too small.
20:12
And if there's a wire in the cup, then the cup is going to end up poking into breast tissue.
20:16
And women then say they hate wired bras because they blame the wire for the
20:21
fact that the wire is poking into their breast tissue.
20:24
It's not the wire's fault. it's the fit of the bra.
20:27
So then what happens is they move away from wired bras, which is where you're
20:31
going to get extra support and extra shape.
20:33
They go to wireless, which potentially, if it's still poorly fitted,
20:38
you're really just covering yourself.
20:40
You're really not getting any support at all, or you may not,
20:43
again, depending on the fit.
20:45
So it's one of those things that has not evolved well over the years.
20:52
It has remained that way.
20:53
There's a lot of incorrect results.
20:56
Old wives tales or whatever you want to call them, about wired bras causing
21:00
cancer, about the fact that you shouldn't wear a wired bra when you're pregnant
21:03
or when you're breastfeeding.
21:05
It's all about knowing how to fit it. If you're fitting it properly,
21:09
it is sitting back on your ribs.
21:11
It's nowhere near, you know, it's around your breast tissue,
21:13
it's not on your breast tissue.
21:15
So it just comes down to lack of knowledge.
21:18
And there's no environment in which girls are
21:22
taught this information so then the
21:24
question becomes is this something that they should be learning in school is
21:28
this something that they should be learning at home you know
21:31
we know with people's home lives there's no guarantee then that
21:34
everybody is going to get that same information so where
21:38
is the responsibility for passing this information on
21:41
and I think as therapists we have a really
21:44
great opportunity because if
21:48
you've got somebody already coming into you you've got that rapport you've got
21:51
that relationship already where they trust you and
21:54
they're comfortable with you because the other thing
21:57
with the stores and I don't want to sound like I'm just constantly dissing stores
22:00
because you know some of them do do it well but a lot
22:03
of people find it really intimidating to go into a whether
22:07
it's a department store or somewhere where they're behind a
22:09
curtain and everybody can hear what's going on yeah yeah you know
22:12
that's not that's not a safe space for people it's
22:17
given me parallels to like it's not exactly the
22:20
same but it's making me think of like again big stores prescribing trainers
22:25
to runners for example it's based on outdated theories and the runners don't
22:29
know any better so they're coming out with this shoe that the thing is going
22:31
to change their lives which maybe they're in pain or maybe they've gone in there
22:35
thinking i need professional help which could be the same with with support management for.
22:39
Breasts and stuff like that could be the same thing they could be hurting and thinking this
22:42
is going to solve their solutions but and then they're walking out and then
22:44
putting up thinking this must be better for me and that actually doesn't and
22:47
because I've bought it in a specialist sports store or somewhere that the person
22:53
has a retail experience level that is greater than my knowledge then I'm assuming
22:59
that it's right and I'm assuming that,
23:02
I must put up with it. And the number of times people will say,
23:05
and like this, there's a few clips from, you know, TV programs as well,
23:08
where people have said, oh, it's just part of being the woman.
23:11
You just put up with it. And I'm like, no, no, no, we don't just put up with it.
23:16
We need to just be ready to go, well, actually, how do we learn how to do it right?
23:22
And it is, like you say, worth pointing out that the people who are doing these fitting services,
23:26
generally, I mean, there's all sorts, but generally they're doing it
23:29
at the best will and they think they're helping and they're just following what
23:32
they've been trained and it's yeah so you can't that's exactly
23:35
as as i was when i was teaching pe i
23:38
taught what i was taught to teach exactly and
23:41
they have been taught to fit and that's what they're doing and they are doing
23:44
it with the best intentions and and like i say not everybody is doing the incorrect
23:50
technique or the poor technique but then the problem is can you rely on that
23:56
if that person leaves is the next person who's been trained you know and and there's.
24:01
And it's just, it's something that women should be independent about because
24:06
you should be able to go into any shop anywhere in the world to be able to fit yourself.
24:10
So it's just, it's a knowledge situation.
24:13
Let's have a look at some of the guests, some of the guests,
24:15
some of the, yeah, they are guests as well. People have joined us live.
24:18
Some of our live listening guests are sharing their experiences.
24:22
I'm going to put some up here as well. Nikki Mansfield says,
24:24
I love this woman already. There you go. Just started the comments.
24:28
I'm not sure what she was referring to there. Cecily Hissop says,
24:31
Oh, the joys of playing rugby with boobs. One bra, taping, then second bra.
24:35
So, yeah, we can come back to that in a second with a sporting environment.
24:38
But Nikki Mansfield has shared some information as well.
24:39
I walked out my first decent bra fitting a chest size down, two cup sizes up,
24:43
feeling like I was now a fully grown woman rather than a kid dressing up in grown-up clothes.
24:48
Revolutionary. We've got Cecily Hissop has come back and saying...
24:53
On the screen for you people joining us nikki finding the right bras like
24:56
finding the perfect pair of and then
24:59
arc massage therapy whose name escapes me i'm sorry remind me
25:02
arc massage therapy who you are um i have asked you for i'm
25:05
sorry it says i'm having flashbacks of my days as a competition swimmer and
25:08
the poor design lack of support swim suits oh
25:12
that's it swim suits are right and tracy
25:15
here said i'm just going to get a few of these out i have a great local independent
25:18
laundry shop and i've recommended them to several clients unfortunately people
25:21
are put off by the cost which is much more than department stores
25:24
interesting one so swings and roundabouts you
25:27
get better service but they charge more and then
25:30
finally just with the comments cecily hislock says having recently lost
25:33
a significant amount of weight i've had to be
25:36
resized three different sizes from three different stores but
25:39
for me i won't name them out publicly but it's on the screen
25:42
other stores are available prove to be the best so yeah
25:45
it could vary from branch to branch as well unless they do
25:48
kind of training so yeah i mean
25:51
i suppose you're more than familiar with those sort of comments from the
25:53
people you see on a daily basis yeah and
25:56
the i mean there's a couple of interesting things that have been raised there which
25:59
is fit is very individual to
26:03
a particular product right so and in the same way as we could compare with with
26:09
shoes again couldn't we so a particular pair of trainers somebody might not
26:13
be a size six in one manufacturer they might be six and a half in the other
26:18
manufacturer. They might be five and a half in the other manufacturer.
26:20
So you get that all the time with bras. You get it with daywear bras and you get it with sports bras.
26:26
So the only time that somebody can guarantee that they are the same size in
26:32
the same bra is if they buy the same bra again.
26:35
So even within the brands, within stores, they will be different sizes because
26:44
they use different sizes.
26:46
And the cup style changes and the cup style therefore changes the band fitting, if you like.
26:55
So you might need to go up in a cup because it's a plunge because there's less
26:58
coverage or you might need to go down in a cup because it's a full cup or it's padded.
27:03
So, again, there's no guarantee. And this is it's an interesting thing that,
27:06
you know, there are people who will may have been told somewhere in their lives
27:10
that they were a I'm going to throw out 36B because that's what so many people were told.
27:15
And they were all buying that, me included, because that's what the shops were selling, right?
27:19
So there are people who will have worn that all their lives,
27:23
despite the fact that over the course of their lives, and that's what's behind
27:26
me there, and that blue pull-up banner there, is that the breasts change over
27:31
the course of a woman's lifespan.
27:33
And so if they're changing, and if we know how to respond to them changing,
27:38
then we can look after our breasts right through our lives as opposed to wearing
27:43
a 36B and ending up like Beyonce where the flipping wire comes out and pokes
27:47
you in the middle of your boob.
27:48
It's like, how would anybody think that that's reasonable? It's not reasonable.
27:55
I think I remembered you saying, I think it was on Jack's podcast and it was
27:59
interesting as well, and I've lived with women.
28:01
I'm a man of the world, more than one, not at the same time,
28:04
but I'm familiar with this concept that a woman gets home,
28:08
and it's take the bra off to feel comfortable and that was interesting because
28:12
I think you alluded to the idea that a lot of women do that thinking it's just
28:16
a natural thing to do that a bra should feel uncomfortable during the day just
28:18
because what it does and you take it off and you feel free,
28:21
but in theory is the is if people are doing that is it maybe that the bra is
28:26
not fitting correctly then it is 100% that the bra is not oh really yes absolutely
28:32
that that's you know that is exactly the reason if somebody is uncomfortable
28:37
enough that they want to take it off,
28:39
it's a poor fit and i mean i i
28:42
have the opposite i have people who will end up
28:45
wearing something that they they've talked about it feeling like a second skin
28:49
we had somebody the other day and she said she didn't remember she was wearing
28:53
one like in the time that she had it on and we were talking to her about various
28:57
different things and and i then and when it was a wired brand she wasn't used
29:01
to wired bras and i said to her how are you feeling about the wired bra now?
29:03
And she was like, I don't even know I've got it on.
29:06
And like, I'll go to bed at night sometimes and I'll be lying in bed and I'm
29:09
like, oh, I've still got it on.
29:11
I need to go and take it off because I've just literally forgotten to take it
29:14
off because it's that comfortable.
29:15
And I think it's really, really important that people understand that support
29:20
and comfort are not mutually exclusive.
29:24
You can have both. There is this feeling that people, to be comfortable, it isn't supportive.
29:32
And that's not necessarily the case.
29:34
The other thing is on that note, a lot of people, particularly with sports bras,
29:39
and I think Cecily mentioned it about wearing two bras,
29:42
like a lot of women will end up wearing two bras because they haven't got the
29:46
right fitting one sports bra,
29:49
but they'll wear two or maybe even three or bind or whatever to just try and
29:55
strap the girls down so that they can get on with doing whatever exercise they're doing.
29:59
And that's not comfortable. And it's also going to affect breathing mechanics.
30:03
So that's another area where, you know, we're not giving women the opportunity
30:09
to be maximally functionally proficient and comfortable at the same time.
30:16
That was an interesting point you raised actually for I wanted to talk about
30:19
because aside from the potential overload on muscles and posture and that you
30:25
just mentioned like the respiratory effects effect on systems could you elaborate
30:29
on that a little bit because that's something that you can think about is it?
30:32
Yeah and I think and I won't go wildly on this because I do I do get a bit vexed
30:37
but all the conversation that happened that was discouraging therapists from
30:42
talking to people about posture were based on a study about posture and low
30:46
back pain, which was done on adolescents,
30:48
which is, you know, a situation where you're not talking about a population
30:53
cohort that is representative of everybody, obviously, because adolescents and
30:58
adults are very different in terms of their body functions and structure.
31:02
But the thing that's frustrating for me is that you can do some very,
31:08
very basic, simple things, like you'd sit in
31:11
a position where you are in a flexed rounded position and
31:15
you take a deep breath and you let it out and then
31:18
you come up into a more thoracically extended position and
31:21
you take a deep breath and you let it out and you're going to get more air in
31:24
it's that simple so I don't think it's right for us to be saying to people it's
31:29
fine for you to spend hours like this and we're not saying it's fine to spend
31:35
hours like anything because the point is keep moving keep changing your position.
31:41
But equally, some people can't. Some people are sitting in front of a laptop
31:45
for eight hours in the day and they can't change their position.
31:49
They might be able to get up and go and make a coffee or they might be able
31:51
to go, you know, get up, go to the loo or whatever, but they're still going
31:54
to come back and sit in a chair and potentially then the amount of movement
31:59
that they can make from here usually ends up coming down to here.
32:04
So then in this position, they're taking in less breath.
32:07
They're affecting their pelvic floor, they're affecting the absorption through
32:11
the mobility of their thoracic spine, which is going to affect the absorption
32:16
through their pelvic floor.
32:17
So there are consequences in function, in respiratory, in pelvic floor,
32:25
in musculoskeletal, in all sorts of areas that are really important for function.
32:31
So even if we don't talk about pain at all we
32:34
talk purely about those functional situations then you
32:37
go to your how is that going to affect somebody
32:40
socially so if somebody is wanting to
32:43
go out and to and to exercise but they're struggling to
32:46
to breathe they're struggling to get more of the
32:50
air that they need because their activity is demanding more then some of that
32:55
may be simply down to the fact that they're that they are in a very flexed position
32:59
and then obviously the more flexed they are this the harder it is to become
33:03
more extended because what happens, you get weaker in your posterior chain.
33:07
So then you have to work your posterior chain to come back. So it's a real catch-22.
33:12
And the more your breast weight gives to gravity, the more it takes somebody
33:18
into a more flexed position, the harder it is to come back out of it.
33:21
So that then does begin to have functional sequelae
33:25
as opposed to just thinking about it from a
33:28
pain perspective and and and that
33:31
same you know if if we're then
33:33
talking about okay so let's say somebody decides that they're going
33:36
to go and they're going to start running or you know do couch 5k
33:39
or whatever but then their breasts are moving around so then
33:43
they're embarrassed by it so then they're like oh i'm not going
33:45
to go out i'm going to go out after dark and how safe is that
33:48
i knew somebody who used to wear a cagoule no matter
33:51
what the weather was she wore a cagoule because she didn't want anybody because
33:54
she would just get cat called so she'd get harassment on
33:57
the road because somebody would be able to see her breasts moving and
34:01
that's the people who are still going out there's a
34:04
lot of people who do the couch bit because they don't want to be embarrassed
34:08
by the fact that their breasts are moving or they'll hold on to their breasts
34:13
as they're moving and then that changes their thoracic rotation so then their
34:18
thoracic rotation is limited so that's then going to affect their pelvic floor,
34:22
So, you know, there's lots of knock-on. That's definitely.
34:29
Yeah, I mean, I will get to your questions. There's some great questions that are coming through.
34:32
I think because we spent a lot of time in these 227 episodes,
34:38
not directly, but kind of a lot of the time, with regards to posture,
34:43
the rather antiquated idea that we're supposed to look like the photo on our
34:47
clinic wall with our palms facing forwards and with plumb lines and things.
34:51
I think we've moved on from that but yet
34:54
like you say this pendulum has swung a little bit too far because
34:57
when no one's really saying i mean they used to once upon
34:59
a time with like the kendall posture classification and people
35:02
are assuming that just because you've got maybe a little bit more of a
35:05
curve in your lower spine and therefore that's the cause for your back pain
35:08
and that can be really significant because you even ignore lower hanging fruit
35:11
and other stuff but i think with regards to a dynamic posture like you say with
35:15
regards to breathing and stuff it is is dangerous to totally get too obsessed
35:20
with this idea that there's no such thing as bad posture because no one really
35:23
said that it's just a misinterpretation isn't it of just evolution.
35:27
Yeah and i mean it's not about you know and it's an
35:30
interesting thing like i always think patients are the people we
35:33
should be listening to patients will talk about they will
35:36
say words like oh my posture is terrible or i have bad posture i
35:39
have poor posture they they are placing these judgments
35:42
we're like I would be encouraging somebody
35:45
to be talking about aligned or upright
35:48
or you know when we're talking about thoracic extension
35:51
and and I talk a lot about the concept of being stacked so that we've got head
35:57
over ribs ribs over pelvis pelvis over over the you know the knees and the ankles
36:02
and that's your yeah that's your ideal plumb line and if your ideal plumb line
36:06
it's something that you are gone a million miles away from,
36:11
then you're potentially putting yourself into an injurious position.
36:16
So to say that somebody who holds their head here all their lives,
36:21
or for a long period of their lives, they're limiting their range.
36:25
So they cannot rotate to the same extent as if their head is back here.
36:30
So why are we accepting that that's okay? And I think that's where I think we've
36:35
gone to the point of we don't need to try and force somebody into one static
36:41
position and say that this is perfect and you should be here all day.
36:44
But equally, if somebody has gone away from the most functional situation,
36:49
then I think we should be encouraging them to come back, to at least know how
36:54
to come back towards it so that then they have the choice.
36:57
This is one of my absolute winds-me-up pictures.
37:02
Why do you think it is always women?
37:05
So, like, there's this acceptance. There's an acceptance that women are going
37:09
to get smaller as we get older. Why?
37:14
So why is it accepted first off? It's accepted because it's happened.
37:18
So it's like it's happened, therefore it's presumed to be normal.
37:22
And because it's presumed to be normal, it's therefore presumed to be inevitable.
37:26
But you have plenty, so I'll come back to the why is it always women,
37:31
but you have plenty of women who don't end up looking like that one at the end
37:37
of their lives because they have spent their lives going into thoracic extension.
37:41
And with the advent now of a lot more people doing the likes of Pilates and
37:46
yoga type activity and a lot more weight training, which is brilliant to see
37:51
that there's a lot more of that happening.
37:53
There's going to be a lot less of that going on. So I think we're going to see
37:57
less of this kind of shrinking thing.
38:00
And I fully accept that there are hormonal changes around menopause and that
38:05
that affects the vertebral column. I get that. I totally get that.
38:08
But at the same time, look at your 85-year-old Pilates instructor.
38:12
Look at your 80-year-old yoga instructor. They are not bent over and they haven't
38:18
accepted that as being inevitable.
38:20
So I think what we've missed out on is the fact that women have a greater tendency
38:27
into flexion because we have three weights pulling us forward into flexion.
38:32
We have our head and we have, if you've got both So basically you've got three
38:37
weights pulling you forward.
38:39
So ironically, well, not ironically, that's the wrong word. We have to work
38:43
harder to come up into extension.
38:46
And the ironic bit is.
38:48
We're still not encouraging girls to do the likes of activities that will strengthen
38:54
their upper backs when they're kids.
38:55
So they're still not being encouraged to climb trees.
38:58
I mean, there's councils now that are flipping stopping people from climbing
39:01
trees, which is just outrageous.
39:04
So we need to start early so that the girls get strong enough to be able to
39:09
tolerate breast weight when it
39:11
happens, so that it doesn't pull them forward, so that they don't end up.
39:15
Heading for there upside down i can't
39:19
do this yeah definitely that's fine that's okay if you
39:22
have this broadcast and wondering what is being shown on the screen then we've got
39:24
that typical kind of like kyphosis position of an older
39:27
lady she's flexed forwards and and how that's accepted
39:30
as the norm but yeah i mean i understand what you're saying
39:33
and i think that i think the secret is not necessarily because
39:36
i don't want to be responsible for the trouble
39:39
is therapists have been taught if somebody walks in that posture then
39:42
using this amazing myofascial release and stuff they're going to bend that
39:45
person back into how they should be and they're going to walk out of clinic
39:47
and yeah that person's probably in a lot of cases going to be in less pain because
39:50
you could do anything to them you could stimulate their nervous system you could
39:53
hit them with a wet kipper for 20 times as long as they believe that's going
39:57
to be better than they'll probably be less painful but that's not the way to
40:00
change someone's posture it's the activity like you said is getting to move
40:03
and experiment and keep that enjoyment of moving i think that you've shown if
40:08
the woman slumped over like that.
40:10
It may be the case of as women get older, there's less inclusivity to include them in sports.
40:16
There's more embarrassment. There's more social expectation for them to stay
40:19
at home and wash up for their husband and be over the sink and that sort of
40:22
stuff. It's probably to do with that.
40:24
There definitely is an element of that. And there's an element of socialization
40:27
amongst that as well, in the sense of how many women who have families will
40:32
be making the time for themselves to exercise and for themselves to come into sports,
40:38
to change the position that they're in for the rest of their lives.
40:42
So there certainly is that side of it, for sure.
40:46
But I think, you know, to your point about the anterior tightness,
40:51
if you are in a flexed position for a lot of time, then we adapt to the position that we're in.
40:57
So there is going to be some anterior tightness, there's going to be some posterior weakness.
41:00
And unless we do something to change that and we can do that by just lifting
41:08
your chest a hundred times a day it doesn't have to be that you need to be loosened
41:12
off there's probably going to be a lot of benefit to that if you're then maintaining
41:16
that activity by repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly,
41:20
coming into a you know a more open position I'm
41:23
not saying you stay in that open position but you learn to
41:26
do it and you strengthen as you're doing that so you
41:29
strengthen at the back can you lengthen at the front and then
41:32
that way you're controlling that you know
41:35
situation I don't know if you know Michael O'Reilly but Michael
41:38
has a great analogy of a filing cabinet and he
41:41
talks about ratchets and wedges and the ratchets of
41:44
the anterior chain and you know
41:47
the the fact that the posterior chain is is being pushed into that position
41:53
which is actually making the ratchets tighter so just getting that whole it's
41:57
not enough to just loosen the tight bit we've got to re-establish the balance
42:01
you've got to get the filing cabinet you know not tipping forward but
42:06
in order to get that. And then once you've got that, you've got options.
42:11
You know, it's your choice whether you choose to keep it or not.
42:14
It's your choice whether you, whether you kind of, you know,
42:18
life doesn't allow that to happen or whatever.
42:21
But I think as long as we are allowing ourselves through blissful ignorance
42:26
to get into positions that can be ultimately injurious,
42:30
then that blissful ignorance is, it's kind of like it's, you know,
42:33
So it is no defence in the sense of we should be educating people out of those situations.
42:42
Great stuff. Yes, definitely. Right now, people, sorry, I've left you questions
42:46
unanswered. There's a great question here from Tracy Marsh.
42:50
Okay. How do you manage with different breast sizes left and right?
42:54
Accommodate the larger side?
42:55
Yeah. And so, as with most parts of the body, so there's asymmetry on all legs,
43:03
hands, feet, the works, isn't there?
43:04
The vast majority of breasts are one size is bigger than the other.
43:09
And women don't know this.
43:10
And there are changes, as we talked about, or mentioned over life cycles.
43:15
So, for example, the breast weight changes over the menstrual cycle.
43:18
So it may get bigger. Well, it will get bigger towards somebody having their period.
43:22
And then it gets a little bit smaller. So if you've got an asymmetry,
43:25
that asymmetry can become more of a, well, if I say more of a problem,
43:30
if your bra doesn't fit you and your breasts are getting bigger,
43:34
then it may be that that larger size maybe needs a cup size up because it doesn't
43:39
fit you in the first place.
43:40
But yes, you always accommodate to the larger size.
43:43
And one of the things that we do is we teach people how to adjust weight.
43:47
Their bra to work around their breast shape. Because when I started this, I was all about support.
43:53
I was a bit like comfort.
43:55
I was like, it doesn't matter whether you're comfortable or not,
43:58
you just need to be supported.
43:59
And then of course I realized, well, nobody's going to wear it if it's not comfortable.
44:03
So that's the pendulum going to the other side, you know?
44:07
So you can get comfort and support, but within that requirement,
44:13
shape is very much what dictates a lot of comfort.
44:19
So the breast shape, and if the breast shape and the bra cup are not congruent,
44:26
then sometimes people won't be comfortable.
44:28
So it's not just about getting a bra that fits, it's about also getting a style that suits.
44:33
So with the breast asymmetry, there are some styles that
44:36
work better for a breast asymmetry than others but
44:40
then we teach people how to do things like
44:42
adjust the straps so that you're accommodating for
44:46
that as opposed to most lingerie adverts
44:49
that you'll see their straps will be in exactly the
44:52
same position because nobody has actually looked
44:56
at them and gone well actually that and then you look at them from the
44:59
front and i'll see an asymmetry i'll see a very clear asymmetry
45:02
but that gets kind of
45:05
again marketed as cleavage
45:08
so yeah no that's a great point and again
45:11
i mean i'm sorry to turn breasts into feet but not my
45:14
intention but the same with shoes a lot of people need to lace one shoe
45:17
up slightly different the other to accommodate the fact you've got slightly different
45:20
shape bones in the foot or slightly different width or length so it's
45:23
it's a very interesting point about not assuming
45:26
that that's why the straps are there that's why they work individually there's
45:28
not just one in the middle to make both straps get longer and shorter
45:31
that's a great point but they're also just on the
45:34
straps and because this is really important and it is the reason
45:37
why so many women end up also in pain and with train tracks
45:40
down their shoulders here is because when somebody's
45:43
in the wrong bra they're relying on the straps to
45:46
try and hold these weights up against gravity i don't
45:50
know if you know about hook's law but hook's law is basically you put
45:52
it if you hang a weight onto the end of a structure
45:56
that structure will eventually get stretched out
45:58
by the weight and that's exactly what gravity does so our.
46:02
Breasts go southeast and southwest so they go into what I like to call dipped.
46:06
Headlights and that's because the only thing supporting them is the skin so.
46:11
The skin is going to stretch unless we support them externally through a well-fitting
46:17
bra and internally through our torso position.
46:21
So when we change our torso position, the breast position doesn't change on the chest wall.
46:28
That's what the external support does.
46:30
But what happens is the breast position changes relative to the floor with the internal.
46:34
So we get dipped headlights to full beam with each of those,
46:38
with an internal and with an external.
46:39
But when we do them both together, we get high beam.
46:43
So we go from dipped headlights to full beam to high beam. And if we're at high
46:47
beam, gravity's got a lot less impact.
46:51
I'm all about high beam. I'm all about high beam. We should mention,
46:55
I mean, we should let people know, especially somehow it's 10 to 9 now already.
46:59
And I know you've got to get away sharpish because you're teaching after this.
47:02
Courses, you run CBD courses. Let's bring a little bit up on the screen for
47:05
people who want to know, because as you've highlighted now, this is an area of education.
47:10
And one way that I guess any of our listeners can help their clients,
47:15
50% at least of who are going to be women.
47:18
And some of them, as you've suggested, this could be a significant issue with
47:22
either their sports or just everyday life.
47:25
Signposting and everything, but to do this properly and accurately,
47:28
the idea would be they need some education.
47:30
So this is the sort of thing you offer, yes, with your courses.
47:32
I'm just going to bring one up on the screen here so people can see it.
47:35
Everything we're talking about here is available to read at,
47:41
posturefittingphysio.com. Let's bring that up on the screen.
47:44
Talk us about one of the courses then you run and the sort of people you see
47:47
coming on it, to be so kind.
47:50
So when I first set up, so basically I set up the service for my patients and
47:55
realised how effective it was and impactful it was for them to get the education
48:01
in how to support their own breast weight.
48:04
And then I kind of thought, well, this is great, but I can't keep this just
48:07
for the women of Cork, need to make sure that this is kind of getting out into the world more.
48:12
So then I set up a training course and I called it Gals Against Gravity.
48:16
And it's still called Gals Against Gravity. And my initial thought was that
48:20
it would just be for therapists and maybe exercise professionals and that they
48:25
would be the people who would be most interested in it.
48:28
But now what I've realized is that it's actually, it's a very narrative course
48:31
because it talks mostly about the breast side.
48:34
And therefore, it is something that a lot of people who have not necessarily
48:39
had a healthcare background, but they have been,
48:41
they found it really useful because they've learned about the statistics,
48:45
they've learned about, you know, the impact, the number of different areas that it impacts.
48:49
They've learned the likes of, it isn't all about larger breasted,
48:53
because that's another real fallacy.
48:55
People think, oh, well, I've got, I'm small, I've got nothing, it doesn't matter.
48:58
Anything is a weight. Anything is a weight going forward.
49:01
So, you know, it is about, as you've just said, it's about signposting and they
49:06
will have, you know, the therapist generally will have 50% at least of their
49:11
patients will be female.
49:12
And there is, you know, we have evidence showing that women get more low back
49:17
pain and more mid-back pain and more neck pain than men.
49:20
And in all of the research, they've given lots of reasons.
49:23
Nobody's gone, there's two elephants in the room there. Nobody's mentioned them at all.
49:28
So, you know, I think to have anybody who works with women and girls to be in
49:34
a situation where they understand this and they're aware of it,
49:38
to then be able to signpost onwards is really, really important.
49:41
So I've extended the kind of opening of the Gals Against Gravity basically to
49:46
anybody who's interested and anybody who's got the opportunity to signpost.
49:50
And then following that, if it's something that people are interested in or
49:55
works in terms of their location or whatever, then there's training onwards
50:00
to become a pasture-fitting partner, which is then offering the actual service.
50:04
And as things stand right now, to offer the service, you need to have a selection of bras.
50:09
I've just created two different levels within that so that the amount of actual
50:15
stock that's needed for it is a little bit less.
50:18
But speaking of stock, I'm sorry for jumping.
50:20
Who was it? Nikki, I think, mentioned about how, you know, that she has a really
50:25
good independent store, but that a lot of, there's a cost associated,
50:28
I feel, and this is purely a me opinion, I would prefer somebody to be in a well-fitting.
50:37
But perhaps poorer quality bra than to be in a poorly fitting, expensive bra.
50:47
So once somebody has learned how to fit themselves, then they have the option
50:52
because they know how to do it.
50:54
There are plenty of decent quality bras at better prices.
50:59
It's not all about paying, you know, like I've seen bras that cost 100 euros.
51:05
And that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good one. It's just in an environment
51:09
where that's what they, you know, their brand and the, you know,
51:12
the whole, the name and all that.
51:15
But you can, you can go into a large department store where there's lots of,
51:19
you know, kind of the self-branded stuff.
51:20
And once you've learned how to do it yourself, then you do learn.
51:24
Like cotton isn't a great product from a fabric perspective because it's going to stretch.
51:30
So once you have that information, then you can choose.
51:33
I'm all about informed choice right so
51:38
yeah and and although on the screen it said it was
51:41
connected for physios it's not just for physios at all like you said it's
51:43
for anybody who would be interested like the
51:46
in in learning more about this and you
51:49
mentioned yeah it's the is the gals against gravity community which is talked
51:52
about on your website as well posturefittingphysio.com and
51:55
then if they are interested in that for c then there is the cpd course
51:57
they can do as well with the idea that i
52:00
think at the moment as it stands i think we were mentioned affair that
52:03
you need to be degree level to do that course
52:06
is it at the moment yeah yeah that's setting you
52:09
up with the with the tools and the scope of practice
52:12
to then to be able to do what in clinic is it
52:14
just a side person to be involved in fitting as well so if if the the second
52:20
level so the the next level of training beyond the gals against gravity that
52:24
that is i've now kind of done three different levels of that but the idea with
52:30
that is to be able to provide the service of.
52:34
Teaching somebody how to be able to fit themselves, possibly with stock that
52:38
they can purchase if they so choose,
52:40
but definitely to be able to then, that they could, the stock can be sent to
52:46
a therapist and they can fit it on the person there rather than hold it in stock.
52:53
But the idea is to be able to give somebody the capacity, the independence to
52:59
be able to do it themselves.
53:01
So it's not at all just about supplying the bra, it's about having that conversations,
53:05
listening, and then as always, doing the subjective as well and listening to
53:08
the reasons why they might be more suited towards something. Absolutely.
53:12
And I mean, one of the things that, you know, it's an interesting thing is there's
53:15
an assumption when people have heard that we're doing this.
53:17
Like I get emails all the time from people saying, I'd like to book in for a bra fitting.
53:21
And so we will always have a conversation to say, it's not just a bra fitting.
53:26
There's a lot more to it than a bra fitting. but therefore as a result of there
53:31
being a lot more to it you this is what you will gain,
53:34
you're going to learn more than just how to fit a bra you're going
53:37
to learn how to manage your breast weight which is very different but
53:40
but again what people know in terms of managing breast weight people only know
53:46
about bras they don't know about anything else so that's part of the education
53:50
and I will always say to somebody there's no obligation to buy a bra and there's
53:54
no guarantee that the bras that we have are going to be right for people because,
53:58
like I said, different shapes.
54:01
What we have, we have daywear and we have sports, but that still doesn't mean
54:04
that somebody is going to find their, you know, their perfect fit.
54:08
But what they have when they walk out the door is the knowledge to go and find it.
54:13
And we will signpost them if what we have doesn't work for them or if what we
54:17
have, if they don't like it. And that's fine, too.
54:20
Amazing. Well, definitely something
54:22
which I think hopefully some of our listeners will be interested in.
54:25
And like you say, all details of that are available on posturefittingphysia.com.
54:29
You can also follow Siobhan and contact on Facebook, Posture Fitting,
54:33
and also LinkedIn as Siobhan O'Donovan.
54:36
And yeah, and if you're listening to podcasts and you've got further questions,
54:39
don't forget to use YouTube right in the comments there and I monitor them and
54:43
we'll make sure if there's any
54:44
questions we can answer, then we'll forward them on to Siobhan as well.
54:47
So keep the conversation going alive, even though it's just this episode.
54:50
I think it's, I mean, we'd love to have you back as well. I mean,
54:52
there's so many more questions I wanted to ask you about.
54:54
Ceci's asked about exercises and things, which we're not going to get into now because
54:57
it's 8 57 i know you've got to go so so thank
55:00
you siobhan thank you so much for joining us it's been an amazing opening and
55:03
a real exactly what i wanted for the opening of the
55:06
women's health because once again it's things which we don't know about
55:09
or understand until someone like yourself tells us you know it's just coins
55:12
suddenly drop so thank you so much for your time you're welcome and it is very
55:16
much you know that's kind of my goal is is really to just open people's eyes
55:20
to it because it's a problem that's hidden in plain sight we've allowed it to
55:24
be hidden in plain sight because nobody has actually,
55:26
has actually, yeah, pointed our eyes to it.
55:30
So, you know, and it is one of those things that women have put up with and
55:34
they don't need to put up with.
55:37
Right. Just one other question from Nikki and then you've really got to go.
55:40
Does the course include a range of exercises to improve, say,
55:42
thoracic position and what?
55:45
We will talk about exercises within that.
55:48
But to be honest, I'm much as I'm a big exercise fan and there's a role for that.
55:53
A lot of what we do is more about using
55:57
little and often you know so cues and positions
56:00
uh on a regular basis so you know
56:03
a little and often situation as opposed to going to
56:06
the gym to do x y or z exercises but having said
56:08
that there you know there is a place for that as well so a
56:12
bit of both right Siobhan you should go
56:15
I'm going to just wrap up here I'm going to let you go now because I've only
56:17
got things to do and then I'll wrap up and let people know what's coming next week but thank you
56:20
so much Siobhan I really thank you for staying in contact
56:23
and have you back at some point because there's so much more we could talk about such
56:26
an interesting topic very happy to you know I can
56:29
keep going on this forever so I know that I'll get in trouble all right well
56:32
thank you so much thank you okay we'll see you soon take care bye-bye bye right
56:37
then that is Siobhan going on to spread the good word and teach so thank you
56:41
people for joining us and really great questions I'm sorry I didn't manage to
56:44
get to all of them there's so much more I wanted to ask Siobhan as well.
56:48
But I think, I mean, we'll definitely, we'll ask and try and get back on a later
56:52
stage to talk about things.
56:54
Maybe if somebody decides to join up with the Girls Against Gravity community,
56:58
it'd be nice to hear from you as well and let us know a little bit about it.
57:01
So thank you people who joined us live. I mean, there's one little thing which
57:03
I want to include in the podcast because it was just so interesting and we didn't have time to talk about.
57:08
I was quite surprised when I was doing a little bit of breast research at the beginning of the week.
57:13
In preparation for this, about the history of sports bras.
57:17
And it did surprise me that it wasn't until 1977 that actually a sports bra
57:21
was designed by a little bit of fact if you hear people, a little bit by Lisa
57:25
Lindell, Polly Smith and Hinder Scriber.
57:27
And it was actually called the Jock Bra. I'm going to bring it up now on the
57:30
screen in case you want to watch the YouTube version. Get ready for a run in Jock Bra.
57:36
And it was revolutionary at the time because until then, And women would just
57:40
regularly wear bras or double up on bras to support themselves whilst exercising.
57:45
The original one, which is still available in the Smithsonian Natural Museum
57:50
of American History, was actually called the jock bra.
57:53
And the reason why it was called the jock bra was it was actually devised,
57:56
the prototype was devised by just putting two jock straps together,
58:00
which I thought was testimony to the lack of information and tools for actually
58:05
designing something for women.
58:06
You've got something called a jock strap and put them together and create a
58:08
bra. But I thought that was quite interesting.
58:10
And the image is on the screen of the prototype there. You can see how basic it was.
58:13
But yeah, 1977 was the first time that suddenly they started thinking maybe
58:18
women are different than men and need something special to support the upper
58:21
body, which I thought was frustrating anyway. So I wanted to share that for
58:24
the podcast to make sure it is on there.
58:27
And also to let you know about next week, which is going to be part two of our
58:32
focus on women's health.
58:34
So next week, which will be recorded live on the...
58:40
4 plus 7, 11th of February, 2025. My guests are going to be Christian Bird and
58:47
Joe McEwen from Menopause Movement,
58:49
who again, those of you who went to Therapy Expo may be aware of.
58:54
And they are going to be talking about menopause, bone health, and muscle mass.
59:00
So that's going to be, again, anybody who knows Christine and Joe are going
59:03
to be big fans anyway, but they've been on the show before.
59:06
And it's going to be, yeah, focusing on the menopause, which is a topic which so many of
59:10
our listeners again and again ask for not just female but
59:13
also male therapists as well because again it's something which you're going to have to deal with
59:16
and look out for the changes it can make to your idea of what's going on with
59:20
relation to MSK issues are huge things like tendinopathy and also bone health
59:25
so it's going to be a great episode we're looking forward to having you along
59:28
and so if you are listening to this podcast and you do like the idea of joining
59:32
us live to get some questions in and just hang out with like-minded therapists,
59:35
then join us eight o'clock on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube channel.
59:40
We do also stream live to Facebook.
59:42
I kind of rate YouTube a little bit more just because it's going to be there
59:45
for longer and your comments will show up and people will be able to add to
59:48
it. Facebook just disappears.
59:50
As we talked about in the last focus on business last month,
59:53
you're better off using YouTube a lot of the time if you're looking for material
59:56
that's going to have a shelf life.
59:58
Facebook, you post it and it's gone. Google doesn't pick up on it.
1:00:02
It's just disappeared whereas youtube is there and
1:00:05
it will appear in google searches forever because youtube
1:00:07
and google are one but then so there you go
1:00:10
thank you everybody again for joining us live really appreciate it especially
1:00:14
the topic like this it's really really useful to have people here talking about
1:00:17
their own experiences so thank you very much for sharing that and yeah that's
1:00:21
it thank you very much i hopefully see some of you next week on the sports therapy
1:00:26
association podcast take care bye.
1:00:29
Music.