Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / The Importance of Paraplanners – Sasha Wakefield

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The Importance of Paraplanners – Sasha Wakefield · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism in recruiting within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Financial Planner Live Podcast.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Today on the mic is Elena, and my guest is Sasha Wakefield, who is a chartered financial planner and fundamentally a very successful power planner.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: In today's episode, we will be talking about why power planning is such a fulfilling career, how to avoid the barriers to enter wealth management and the future of power planning.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sasha Wakefield, how are you?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, great, thank you.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm doing very good.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Very excited to have you on the podcast today.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: How are you enjoying restrictions easing up?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's great.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually hopefully with the weather and everything getting a bit nicer, be able to actually go in some beer gardens and start meeting up with friends and family.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, definitely, I can't wait.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice to be slowly edging towards normality, isn't it?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, Sasha, would you like to be, as I said in your introduction, you are a chartered financial planner, but sort of fundamentally a power planner.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like to sort of introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm relatively new to power planning.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: I've been doing it for about two years now.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so how I started off was um I left school at 16, didn't really know what I wanted to do, to be honest.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like most people who don't have a clue what they want to do, you just end up in finance.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I got a job as a cashier um at a bank.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um was there for nearly two years, um, and I just randomly put my CV online and applied for a couple of jobs in London.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, next thing I know, three weeks later, I had um shipped all my stuff from Wiltshire to London as I got a job at uh Transact, which is a platform company.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I worked at the company sort of on and off for about eight years, um, and I had so many different job roles.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: I done client service, pensions technical, asset transfers, uh reconciliations, supervision, you name it.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: I basically worked in every single department of the firm.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and to be honest, I don't think um I would be where I am now if it wasn't for my time there.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: The company um allowed me to delve into so many different areas of the business and it gave me a real insight into how um I worked best at work and what areas of the business that I really enjoyed.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um so when I was at Transact, the role that kind of made me want to branch out away from the firm was actually when I worked in pensions technical.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there I was sort of helping develop the procedures and train the whole of the client services for the business on the pension changes that came out in 2015.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and in that team I had to supervise um individuals and we were checking all of the pension crystallizations that were leaving the business.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, I just thought I need to do something like this, I need a role that's really, really analytical.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so whilst I absolutely love the company and I still sing transact praises so much, um, I just needed something a little bit more challenging.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I was speaking to a colleague there, and she said that she was leaving to become a power planner.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was like, what the hell is that?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like some made-up work.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is a power planner?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and anyway, she was just telling me more about it and you know, all the you can get involved in like the technical aspects of financial planning and you know, all the different exam routes.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, this actually sounds really interesting, it sounds like a little bit of me.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but she's sort of explained to me that she found it so difficult trying to get into a power planner role.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was actually a former colleague at Transact who got me a job as IFA admin at a local firm.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the great thing was it's actually moving from Transact to becoming an IFA admin was actually really, really easy.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um essentially just the flip side of what I've been doing for the last eight years.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the fact that I knew how a platform works inside out was actually great because it just meant I could do the role so easily.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um so when I was in that role for about a year, I started doing my CII exams for the level four diploma.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I just wanted to start the exams really just to kind of get a bit more knowledge behind me while I was learning the new role.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and after I'd done that role for about a year, it took me a good six months to find a power planning position.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and here we are two years later, um, charted, um, and just absolutely loving it, like absolutely loving power planning.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I really believe that this is gonna be me now for it, like this is my chosen career.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just love the fact that I'm always enhancing my skill set, um, and the world of financial advice is just constantly adjusting and adapting.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I just think there's never gonna be a point that I'm gonna know everything and I don't want to, so it's always gonna be exciting.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I know it sounds really geeky, doesn't it?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: But no, not at all.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole thing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different, so many different people have so many different skill sets and they can be tailored to so many different roles within financial planning.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: And as you've just touched on, noticing that you have that analytical skill set and that's something strong point that can be so well transferred into the power planning world.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And look where you are now.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, a very successful power planner.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny that you touched on the fact that when you first heard about power planning from one of your colleagues, you weren't aware of it because that is very often the case, isn't it?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I went to university, everyone knows what a power legal is, you know, how they support others, but no one knows what a power planner is.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, what you touched on something that was very interesting was when you found out about the power planner role, when you're working at the provider and you were like, okay, you know, this is what I want to do, this interests me, this is exciting.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have to actually go from working at the provider to working in wealth management, and there's that gap.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, apart from working for the Financial Planner Live podcast, I work for Recruit UK, so I'm a recruiter and I work with so many candidates, people like yourself who have some exposure to sort of finance, and others that don't, that are really interested in wealth management and find it really difficult.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And as you've just touched on, you know, it's difficult to make that leap from one to another, even with someone like yourself who's got that massive transferable skill set to bring across.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you go about when you first heard about power planning and you thought that was interesting?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned your colleague got you the job as the IFA administrator, but how did you navigate, you know, finding your first role within wealth management?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, to be honest, I was a bit naive at first.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought, you know, like you said, I've got the transferable skills from, you know, my eight years at the provider.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I just thought, you know, naively, well, I've got the experience, I've got a couple of exams under my belt, so it should be relatively easy to find a role.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, it took me six months after having um the position at the IFA admin role to find um an actual, what I would call an actual power planner position, because so many roles out there are so borderline of admin power planning, it's a bit sort of blurred, and I knew that I really just wanted um sort of the power planning role, so actually writing the reports, doing the research, doing the cash flow modelling.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so for me, I just ended up having to find a role at a national firm who are probably a bit more lenient in terms of experience and um examinations.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I just remember the interview process was completely different to um some of the other interviews that I've had, where they weren't sort of phased by my lack of experience or the fact that I I wasn't uh diploma qualified.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: The interview process was more about sort of assessing my character, my work ethic rather than oh, tell me how you know to do this cash flow model.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I think for me that was one of the most important points of my career was that someone actually gave me an opportunity to prove myself and transfer the knowledge that I'd gained for my exams into the workplace.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think um for a lot of people, it sounds really cliche, but if you really do want to get into power planning, then don't give up.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Just get yourself out there, ask for help, network, network, network, network.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and look at the exam routes as well.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Try and get yourself ahead of the game a little bit.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Exams aren't everything, but it's just an extra bit that could just, you know, sell yourself when applying for the jobs.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think fundamentally it's just knowing that there's so much support out there, whether it be from um other power planners in the business um or even like yourselves, like recruiters that specialise in the areas that you're wanting to get into, it's just talk to them and ask for help and don't be afraid of asking for it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you've just touched on such an important thing there.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it is so cliche, isn't it?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it is that whole element of perseverance.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as you've just demonstrated that, the first role that you got, the IFA administration role, was not exactly what you wanted to do, but that's fine, you know, it gave you that um experience to keep developing to become a paraplanner, but it's really good for our audience to hear that if you are an individual that's looking to take that step into wealth management and you are struggling to find a job that through networking, through sitting a couple of exams and through just continuously putting yourself out there and speaking to people, you can get an opportunity.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think just don't put yourself under pressure to, you know, it's so easy to go on, say, LinkedIn and compare your journey to someone else's, to be like, oh, well, you know, they got into power planning or whatever in a year or straight into a a role.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, you know, focus on your journey, celebrate others' journeys as well, but also just focus on your own journey and don't put yourself under pressure to do things in a set order or a set way.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so the great thing about you know, financial advice is you can dip in and out of different roles and different jobs so easily, and it's actually seen as something that's you know positive rather than a negative thing of moving around.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's just keep definitely just keep going.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, keep going.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is the main thing, and that's so encouraging for our audience to hear because you know, I speak to candidates that potentially it can be a couple of weeks and they've already got interviews lined up and compare themselves to people where it's a couple of months and they're they're really working hard.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really encouraging to hear from someone like yourself that's now proven to be successful in the industry, that even you face those barriers to entry and that if you keep going, yeah, you fundamentally you can get there and you will right thing.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, it's the universe, isn't it?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: You trust the universe, you trust the process, and you don't compare to other people because ultimately, when you look at your journey, you'll be you'll be grateful for all the mishaps and the little bumps that got you to the place where you are now.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's you know, I've done quite a few roles over the last couple of years, and every single one has been completely different, even though they might be fundamentally the same job, but they're just so completely different.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's not the right fit for you, then you shouldn't, you know, put yourself under so much pressure to try and make it work, or you know, just focus on yourself and yeah, keep going.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think keep going such a lovely message for all of those people that are really trying to get that um opportunity.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you just touched on that there.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different avenues within financial planning, and even we had this discussion before you came on the podcast.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the financial planner life podcast is here to share stories across all the different avenues and positions across financial planning.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you are a chartered financial planner, but it's poinning that you love, isn't it?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I absolutely love power planning.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the great thing um about the role is that it's just so, so varied.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think a lot of people just assume a power planner just sits there and we just type all day, we don't want to talk, we just want to sit there and write reports all day.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, you know, it's it completely different at different um companies, but you could get involved in attending client meetings, doing research of different products, funds, tax and you know, legal legislation changes, um, preparing cash flows.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And most recently for me, something that I've really been able to sort of um get involved in more is actually collaborating with the financial planners and being able to actually discuss the client and how the recommendations are the right fit for the client.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's being able to almost not challenge the advice but just work like collectively together.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's something that I really, really enjoy.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, for me, I just have no desire to be client basing.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I love clients, but I just don't get that spark from being in client meetings or having to deal with clients primarily as my job.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and whilst I wouldn't say I'm like a creative person, I really enjoyed the storytelling side of report writing.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I feel that I can get to know the client without having to see them almost face to face, um, you know, writing their story within their recommendations and adding the soft facts and making it personal.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's one of the elements that I really, really enjoy.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then, you know, it's the difference of roles available as well.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you can be an in-house power planner, an outsourced power planner, you can get mortgage advice, equity release advice, DB transfers, so many absolutely everything, literally so many options.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what's great is there's just so much flexibility and avenues to be able to increase your knowledge in like specialist areas, or just get you know involved in outsource power planning or in-house, you know, it's just there's so many different areas you can actually delve into.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to hear that you love power planning because very occasionally, you know, people view power planning as the stepping stone to get into advice.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And as you just touched on and then, you know, you don't necessarily want to be client-facing, you know, not everyone as such even has that skill set to be client-facing.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so amazing to hear sort of why you love power planning and why power planning can be such a fulfilling career.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not all about financial advice within financial planning, and it's not all about being the best financial advisor you can be.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not how you you are successful in the industry.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, being a really good power planner is crucial to the financial planning process, and obviously it's is very enjoyable, and you can go down all the different avenues to find what it is about it that you really, really enjoy.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think the process of financial advice is just so different.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like the last 10 years, even five years ago, like the impact of um changing regulations and tight compliance, it just means it's impossible for a financial planner to be able to carry the whole load of that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think now advice is just more than about sort of investment returns.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a long process of going with the client through all of their different life stages and looking at the bigger picture of that person's life.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so for me, this is my sort of like way of looking at financial advice, is it's almost like a almost like a brain.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds pretty bizarre, but so the left side of your brain is always sort of like the analytical side.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel that the left side of the brain is the paraplanner role because they have time to like delve into the technical aspects and the financial planning process um and get into like the nitty-gritty, and then the financial planner is like the right side of the brain, which basically focuses on the emotional intelligence and communication side of things, and you know, financial planners they need to have a clear understanding of like the needs and aspirations of their client, and so they need to develop their soft skills, so you know, they have they need to have time to focus on that side of things.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, I just think um being able to give the client the best outcome is to actually use both sides of the brain and to work cohesively together, so it's a really weird sort of way to look at it.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent analogy.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is such a good analogy, and you're right, isn't it?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, you think of the brain, one side can't work without the other.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: The financial planning process would not be comparable.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or if you didn't have just the same side that you want a really, you know, competent and advisor that can empathize with you and listen to you, you need a power planner on the other side that is technically knowledgeable enough to be able to marry it all together.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I just think everyone has a particular skill set that's their strength.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I know for me it is the technical side of things.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to work with an advisor who's able to excel in the other side of things, and then we can work together as a team to give like the best outcome.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I just think having a great power planner is just as important as having a great financial planner and just working together to get the best outcome.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you just touched on it then, you know, how financial planning in general anymore is not about all about your assets under management, the return on your investment.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's about your dream holiday, funding your children through university.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's so much more.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you think the the paraplanner role is just as crucial in this sort of new progressive, forward-thinking financial planning model, just as crucial as the actual financial planner?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think more than ever now, it's just evident that you know the the financial planners just don't have capacity to do it all.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think having someone there who's almost sort of um backing up your recommendations as well and doing all of the side of things that you don't have time for, like the advisors they don't have time to necessarily sit there and be looking up all these different legislations and annual allowance tapering and and things like that.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas the paraplanners are doing that day in, day out.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: They're looking at different cases and they might um you know not necessarily be working one-to-one with an advisor.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: So currently I work with a couple of different advisors, so you're able to learn different skills from them.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's able, I'm able to then bring um elements from one advisor to another and you know share different ideas.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the more the more brains um that we've got involved, then the better, I think.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I believe that power planners are more crucial than ever in the financial planning process.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I completely agree.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And we've just talked about so many fundamental reasons on why that is.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you have discussed how much you love power planning, we have discussed how financial sort of power planning can occasionally be viewed as a stepping stone to financial planning, and we've said, you know, I when we came out of uni, everyone knows what a power legal is, but no one knows what a power planner is.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you didn't understand someone placed it in front of you.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you bridge that gap then?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think you can encourage more people to become power planners and have what we'd say career power planners as such?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, to be honest, I'm relatively new to the industry, having only been a power planner for about two years.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think the the last six months or so, I've been a lot more vocal um in trying to get involved in things on social media.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: I've helped write articles um for uh expert pensions and most recently um done a webinar, a career webinar with the PowerPlanner Club to share my journey.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: The role still has such a long way to go before it's accepted as a career in its own right.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one of the one of the difficulties of power planning is that the role is so undefined.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's so hard to set industry standards for what is expected from a power planner and you know what actually should a power planner be involved in.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I think the variety of the career is why I love it so much.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I just hope over the next you know couple of years that the industry is just able to keep building up the power planner role and things become a little bit more um sort of defined and available, you know, to others to come into the industry.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the things that we've touched on before, I guess, as well.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we mentioned we said you had a very analytical sort of mindset, and from that you sort of viewed it as a strong skill set for power planners.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think maybe there's it's and you what you said is completely right, as the recruitment side of things, what one firm classifies as a power planner and what another classifies as a power planner are completely different, or what they want them to do and achieve are completely different.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: But do you think there's a skill set or something that poanners typically have that people maybe outside of the industry might note that they've got a couple of these?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I definitely think um us paraplanners are all quite alike.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: We try to be very diplomatic.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um advisors don't like being told that they might there might be a different outlook on something.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think power planners are really good at being diplomatic and at looking at things from a different point of view.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as you sort of touched on, analytical.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, finding things really interesting, being able to research things and taking the initiative to find out different regulations and legislation.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think just having that sort of analytical mindset is really helpful.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I also think you know, having the willingness to continue learning, um, but I think that's that's sort of across the board with all financial roles really, is just the willingness to keep learning because you things are just rapidly changing in the industry year on year.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just making sure that you know you've got the willingness to um keep learning and keep evolving with the times.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that leads nicely into sort of my next question.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sasha, and I can say this to the audience who haven't connected with me on LinkedIn and like we were previously.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I always see on your feed about exams and that you continue, you continue to keep studying.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know whether I want to say, you know, enjoy studying, because if that's a fine word, enjoying sitting exams.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I always see on LinkedIn, you know, and I had a little nosy before we came on, you know.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is it am I right thinking that you're a fellow?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you're a fellow, you're chartered, you've got level four diploma, and all these other nice certificates to go around it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: What makes you, what attracts you to keep studying or what encourages you to keep studying?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, I didn't really have a plan in place of you know, a desire to get to fellow necessarily initially.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even know what fellow was till probably about a year and a half ago.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it was just when I started off looking for a power planning role, um, you know, my colleague mentioned about the diploma, and I started noticing on recruiters, um, adverts, um, and things like that that level four diploma just seemed to be sort of the thing to do or like a desirable.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I just started looking into it.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I chose the CII route um for myself just because it just seemed like the most well-known that I could look out for.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but there's so many different routes.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's a CISI, the L IBF.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think for anyone who's looking to go um and start getting into the exam side of things, then definitely have a little look at the different routes available because some of the exam routes are more coursework-based.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: So if you really do struggle under pressure, then it's worth having a look at those.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but for me, I just chose the CII um and started making a plan of the exams and what exams I wanted to do and what order, just because I wanted to show a level of dedication and commitment to the profession um to kind of break into financial advice.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then after sort of a year completing my diploma, um I thought, okay, well, do I want to continue the exams or am I just, you know, happy where I am?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I kind of went through all of the RDR changes in 2012 when I was at Transect, and we saw so many advisors actually break away from financial advice because they didn't want to do the exams.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's totally fine, like I totally get that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but for me, it was also thinking long term, what's gonna happen from a regulatory perspective in say 10 years, 20 years, because I'm still quite young.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I thought, well, I might as well just carry on and get to chartered in case, you know, in 10 years' time, suddenly everyone's got to be chartered or something like that.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: But also just to develop like my technical skills and to implement in my work.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, although I don't think you need to have every exam under the sun to make you a good paraplanner, I think having a combination of both the exams and the practical knowledge just keeps you at the sort of like the top of the game.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so for me, um, it just sort of yeah, just spiraled really.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: While I was in the moment and the momentum was there, I just thought I'll just carry on the exams and just see what happens.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, so who knows?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um I saw you putting on that you said at Christmas it was going to be your last one and you're already doing thinking about doing one more.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, who knows what's to come.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, similar to what I said earlier about putting yourself under pressure, I would just definitely stress again that you shouldn't compare, you know, your exam journey with anyone else's, um, especially because we all learn in such different ways.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think you know, pieing on pressure to try and compete with others if you're seeing on LinkedIn, oh someone's done, you know, 10 exams in 10 months, but I can only, you know, do one or I failed, like it's it's completely fine.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think being able to share, you know, the fails as well as the successes as well is really important because you only it's like all social media, you only see the positive things.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I think sharing, you know, all of your exams, successes, and fails is extremely important, um, but just don't stress um looking at other people and comparing yourself.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it like I said, it's not all about the exams.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many great paraplanners out there who don't have any exams.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but for me personally, I you know started looking at the level four and it just sort of spiraled from there, really.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the thing is as well, especially when you see someone with a a long list of exams, you think how how can you use everything that you sort of learn into practice every day in Dean?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: As you're talking, you know, everyone's journey is different.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: You don't even really need your level four to be a power planner, you know, in terms of theoretically.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um do you think they're even doing if for people maybe the audience that are out there that are thinking about they want to keep studying but they don't know if it's actually going to be beneficial to them?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think the keeping studying still adds value to sort of what you're doing alongside what your your day job essentially?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think um the level four diploma is probably a must in terms of um, especially those coming into the industry from a non-financial background, is it will really, really help you be able to build the technical skills um and then start building on the practical knowledge.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think it's you know, the level four is really fundamentally should should be the sort of standard for power planners.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I just think that you know, if exams aren't for you, then don't stress about it.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I do I do think they, you know, do add value.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: And as most people in the financial um advice sort of area, you need to do yearly CPD anyways.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: So why not add a qualification to that if you can?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've touched on a good thing there about the level four, um especially as like a barrier, well, as like entry level.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've touched on before, um, you know, doing a couple of those exams, getting them under your belt while you're looking to move into the industry is really beneficial in the fact of showing sort of commitment and dedication to future employers.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think on the flip side it's also really useful for people that are looking to do it, go go into the industry to do them to see if it is actually something that interests them and whether, you know, this is what they want to make a career out of?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think um it's probably, I can imagine, quite overwhelming from reading some of the material.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of without the practical knowledge, if you just looked at the exams, I would imagine you'd probably be bored to tears for most of them, especially RO1.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's just all regulations.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's just if you start reading it and you start, especially the tax side of things, because it's so relatable.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, there's some exams that you probably will be relatable to everyday sort of uses.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you think, okay, that is actually quite interesting, that is actually in a way almost like a life skill, some of these exams.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I do think it's definitely a way to sort of dip your toes in and think, okay, well, maybe I could actually enjoy this.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but definitely having the practical side of things um really does help as well, like getting into a role and seeing if you like it as well, um, because the role is, you know, so different to just the way that the exams are set out.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just having the mixture, really, I think will ultimately give you the best decision about whether it's for you.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think, and as you to we touched on, you know, doing the exams are really good when you're looking to move into the industry because it shows to employers that you're you want to keep studying and you're committed and you're dedicated to the financial planning profession.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: But as you just touched on then, I think it's also a really good way to dip your toe into the water and see if it is something that interests you because exam books are never nice and exciting.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Never nice and exciting.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think being able to, as you said, like the tax one and being able to see if you pick up the information, information it infiltrates and whether it is something that sort of interests you is also a really good way to see if the power planning profession and everything is something that you could continue.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we've spoken about before with your journey and getting in that networking was something that was really, really important to you.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we've spoken about this previously.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do you do all your?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a shame that we're having this conversation ourselves via Zoom.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just the limitation of networking at the moment.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you said in the past six months it's been very important to you and become quite crucial.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: How has that come about?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I never felt the need to actually network when I worked at a platform, um, because most of the networking really was sort of in-house, like working together and networking with between the different departments, because there was like 400 people there.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but since moving into financial advice, I found that there's definitely a massive shape up in the need for networking.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I found it like really beneficial.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I tried sort of networking initially when I first started my diploma just because I wanted to reach out and see, you know, what exam paths are there, what exam order should I do?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I joined um the Paraplanner Assembly Forum a couple of years ago and added just like a forum chat, like, oh hey, I'm starting with, you know, RA1 or whatever.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I couldn't believe how quickly people were coming back to share their journey or to say, oh hey, I'm doing it as well.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I have no idea what I'm doing.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so it was just, yeah, it started off from there, really thinking, oh wow, it's great that people are so eager to share their experiences as well and offer help.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so after I sort of done my diploma, um I looked at doing my chartered exams and used a company there um that offered like a three-month revision course.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they had a forum as well uh between all of the different individuals that were sitting in that exam.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um I found it hugely motivating to be able to talk to others like all around the UK, sit in the same exam at the same time, and being able to sort of discuss the case studies um and to motivate each other because there's nothing more depressing when it's a sunny day, everyone's out and about enjoying themselves, and I'm tied to the kitchen table revising for like five hours on a Saturday.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was just great as well from sort of like a friendship side of thing and building the relationships.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I've stayed in contact with quite a lot of the individuals that I've met um and just sort of followed their career and exam journeys.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I just think networking is just a great avenue to share ideas between others and to build relationships with others outside of your um business.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's just important as well that um networking should be considered like a two-way thing.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not all like take, take, take from others.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: You should be able to share um and you know, build relationships um with individuals, and as well, it could also lead to new job roles and you know things like that.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't know who you're ever gonna meet again, do you?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: But exactly I think it and it's so nice to hear that.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the one thing I do love about the financial planning profession, you know, we are here now on the Financial Planning Life podcast to talk about stories to inspire others and to motivate others.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the one excellent thing about the financial planning profession is it really is like a little community, and there is so many people out there that are always happy to help others and add value as the sort of industry keeps developing.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really important and nice to hear that literally upon entry, you felt like you had sort of that networking and that support, and then it's been there and aided you sort of throughout your career.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, would you recommend other people that are in the industry to sort of reach out?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe if you're you're struggling, whether that is because you're looking to transition into the industry or you're maybe looking to change job role or one role or another, that maybe the help that you think, you know, maybe the help in the office and everything is not all the help that's out there.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's, I mean, the finance community is massive, but it's so small in the same time.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like everyone knows each other.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you shouldn't feel afraid to ask for help because everyone wants to help in this community and support each other.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I love the most, you know, about the financial advice side of things, is because there's so many individuals going through the same thing, um, and also they're so willing and open to share, you know, their successes and their failures, perhaps.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I think over sort of the last year I felt that networking's become so important, especially since everything with COVID, and there's so much more virtual relationships having to be built.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think the more that people can be vocal about their journeys and um being able to share their knowledge, it will actually hopefully encourage a lot more people to go into the power planning career because they're gonna look and think, well, this is a great community and support network.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: So why wouldn't I want to join, you know, and be part of that?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, especially being able to give back to the community now that I, you know, started from, you know, coming into the industry, and now hopefully I'm able to continue sharing my journey and sharing the knowledge to others and hopefully encourage um people to come into PowerPlanning.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that there's such a strong power planning community, just even not, and it's not just about your workplace or the people in your local area, but there's such a national community, is such a big pull for people to join the industry.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I've spoken a lot about um previously how you know financial planning is still viewed as a very male-dominated space.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the back off roles uh have a lot more of a female presence than sort of the financial planning side of things do.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think still finance as a whole is viewed as very male, and women are often nervous about taking that step into the industry.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's and really nice to have a community that supports each other, but also then voices like yourself, Sasha, that demonstrate, you know, that you can be successful, that you can have their skill set and shining a light on successful women in the industry to encourage other women to join the industry also.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the great thing about power planning is it's so flexible, there's so many opportunities, you know, where there's you can work um, you know, work from home or work around, perhaps having a family.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so hopefully that will encourage a lot more females to come into the industry or come back to the industry having left perhaps after a family.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just great that now there's going to be more and more opportunities for women to you know come back into the business.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully, the more of us that share our journeys and encourage others, then hopefully that will just help.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and Sasha, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the Financial Planner Live podcast to share your journeys and share the story of power planning with others, why it's such a great sort of career move, and also about how the future of power planning is sort of going to continue.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, thank you very much for spending the time to speak with me this morning, Sasha.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much for having me.