Latest / Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogert and Tab Ramos / The Truth on Gio Reyna, McKennie's USMNT Fit and Being Unprepared for the World Cup with Paul Tenorio

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The Truth on Gio Reyna, McKennie's USMNT Fit and Being Unprepared for the World Cup with Paul Tenorio · Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogert and Tab Ramos

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  Speaker 1: If you're gonna look at stats and numbers, he has
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  Speaker 1: no shot at making.
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  Speaker 2: This World Cup team.
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  Speaker 1: Having said that, I think when you look at the
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  Speaker 1: players that we have the quality of players that we
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  Speaker 1: have on the team, and it's leave Christian Polisic aside
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  Speaker 1: for a minute here. I think there's no player that
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  Speaker 1: can create more opportunities within the final thirty yards of
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  Speaker 1: the field in g Arena.
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  Speaker 3: What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to Inside American Soccer.
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  Speaker 3: I'm your host, Tom Boger, joined as always by my
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  Speaker 3: friend and one of the greatest players in US soccer history,
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  Speaker 3: a veteran of three World Cups and much much more,
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  Speaker 3: tab Ramas tab. You were just at the United Soccer
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  Speaker 3: Coaches Convention in Philadelphia this weekend. You were talking on
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  Speaker 3: a panel people getting your expertise.
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  Speaker 1: How was it, Oh, it was as always a ton
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  Speaker 1: of fun, I like not only obviously, I had a
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  Speaker 1: couple panels. I had one with Eric Guanalada, which is
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  Speaker 1: always fun to be with, and I had another one
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  Speaker 1: with John Harks on Saturday, and Glenn Crooks was the moderator.
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  Speaker 2: So it couldn't have gone any better.
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  Speaker 3: Really, when you get to do these things with Harksey
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  Speaker 3: and Tony and I. You know, you guys do a
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  Speaker 3: lot of things together. Is it difficult to be like
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  Speaker 3: professional Tab and professional John at these things or do
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  Speaker 3: you feel like you're going back to all the memories
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  Speaker 3: that you guys have and just messing around like your
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  Speaker 3: two friends, or do you or is it easy for
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  Speaker 3: you to put on the blazer and get into like
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  Speaker 3: super professional mode.
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  Speaker 1: No. I think actually we all have enough experience now
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  Speaker 1: that you know, we can get in front of a
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  Speaker 1: room and sort of stick to our points. You know,
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  Speaker 1: John being a technical director type, me having a little
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  Speaker 1: bit of a coaches voice in Tony a little bit
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  Speaker 1: of the same. Tony has probably more experience in terms
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  Speaker 1: of media and all that stuff.
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  Speaker 2: So when we.
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  Speaker 1: Work together this way, I think it's kind of easy
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  Speaker 1: and plus which I know we'll get to.
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  Speaker 2: I have my towel today just in case I want
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  Speaker 2: to make sure that no one takes it. I have
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  Speaker 2: it right next to me. I'm sure we'll get to
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  Speaker 2: this at some point.
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  Speaker 3: That's fantastic. Well, if you're watching it on video or
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  Speaker 3: listen along, maybe you hear a couple of chuckles in
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  Speaker 3: the background. Because we have a special guest. Today, we
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  Speaker 3: are joined by my good friend Paul Scenario, senior writer
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  Speaker 3: for The Athletic and soon to be officially a published author.
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  Speaker 3: Paul wrote a book called The Messy Effect, How the
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  Speaker 3: Global Legend Changed the Future of American Soccer that is
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  Speaker 3: available right now for pre order wherever books are sold,
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  Speaker 3: and we'll dive into the book a little bit later. Paul, So,
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  Speaker 3: put away your advertising boards and everything else you needed
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  Speaker 3: to get into. I just have one question when I
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  Speaker 3: say soon to be officially a published author, does that
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  Speaker 3: bother you do you need? Do you need something different?
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  Speaker 3: Are you gonna start wearing overcoats with with little elbow
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  Speaker 3: pads like a professor? Like, well, what is this transformation
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  Speaker 3: like for you?
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  Speaker 4: No, I have a corduroy jacket. I do. I have
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  Speaker 4: a quarter ray jacket upstairs with the elbow pads. I'm
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  Speaker 4: gonna I'm gonna start having a pipe, I think, is
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  Speaker 4: what I'm gonna do. It's gonna become my new signature,
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  Speaker 4: just just a pipe wherever I go. No, really, when
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  Speaker 4: I hear it, I just get high levels of anxiety
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  Speaker 4: right now about the book. I wish I could be
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  Speaker 4: relaxed and like, oh, I'm a published author. Like no,
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  Speaker 4: it's just I'm just filled with dread over this over
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  Speaker 4: this summer. So hopefully it goes well. But you know,
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  Speaker 4: it's uh, it was a lot of work that went
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  Speaker 4: into the book, so you know, now it's just a
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  Speaker 4: matter of putting it out into the world and seeing
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  Speaker 4: how it's received. From there, I think it'll be received
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  Speaker 4: very well. And from getting to be close with you
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  Speaker 4: and seeing the other side of this process, he ain't
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  Speaker 4: lying when he says it's a lot of work. I
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  Speaker 4: promise you that I can't wait to read it, can't
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  Speaker 4: wait for people to get their hands on it. We're
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  Speaker 4: gonna talk about that more a little bit later, but
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  Speaker 4: on today's show, we're gonna start by going inside the notebook,
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  Speaker 4: giving the latest news around the US men's national team.
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  Speaker 4: What's the latest with Josh Sergeant and possibly Toronto FC.
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  Speaker 4: There's a lot going on there with Nord City. We'll
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  Speaker 4: dive into that, as well as a couple other things.
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  Speaker 3: Paul is here to give his five USMNT things to
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  Speaker 3: watch before the World Cup. It's always good to get
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  Speaker 3: a good perspective. I'm looking forward to that, and of course,
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  Speaker 3: as always, we're gonna go inside the locker room with
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  Speaker 3: Taberamas for another special story and those are always fun.
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  Speaker 3: But let's start inside the note book. First things first,
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  Speaker 3: Josh Sargent Toronto FC made a bid of eighteen million.
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  Speaker 3: Josh Sargent wants this move. Norwich do not want him
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  Speaker 3: to leave. The manager continues to come out and publicly
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  Speaker 3: say he is not for sale. He is not leaving,
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  Speaker 3: and Josh Sargent has skipped out on their last couple
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  Speaker 3: of games. Norwich has sent him to train with the
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  Speaker 3: U twenty ones along the way. Toronto FC are still pushing,
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  Speaker 3: hoping to get this deal over the line. A new
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  Speaker 3: detail that has emerged this week is that there is
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  Speaker 3: a relegation release clause in Josh Sargent's contract. North City
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  Speaker 3: are in a relegation fight and if they were to
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  Speaker 3: go down, if they don't sell him this winter, if
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  Speaker 3: they were to go down, then they will lose him.
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  Speaker 3: For if it's not free, it's a significant discount from
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  Speaker 3: what it is now. And that's just a lot of
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  Speaker 3: complicated factors. It's getting ugly between Sergeant and Norwich. Sergeant
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  Speaker 3: really really wants this move. He's hoping for Norwich to
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  Speaker 3: acquiesce to this, and Nords are saying, hey, you have
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  Speaker 3: a contract, We're in a relegation fight. You're not going
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  Speaker 3: that's it. So Paul, you've been reporting on the story
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  Speaker 3: with me as well. What is your perspective on Josh
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  Speaker 3: sargent saga.
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  Speaker 4: It's a game of chicken at this point. You know,
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  Speaker 4: I think it's a game of chicken and who blinks first.
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  Speaker 4: And you know, there's a couple factors here. I think
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  Speaker 4: first of all is Norch doesn't think they're going down.
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  Speaker 4: You know, since they've made the manager change, they were
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  Speaker 4: around one point two one point three points per game
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  Speaker 4: would keep them safely out of the relegation zone. Obviously
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  Speaker 4: they had an awful start to the season, so I
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  Speaker 4: think they're factoring a relegation clause into this battle a
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  Speaker 4: lot less than Josh Sargent's side. And then there's the
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  Speaker 4: fact that Toronto's bid is the third highest bid that
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  Speaker 4: we know about for Josh Sargent over the last two years.
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  Speaker 4: Cincinnati's bid was higher, and Wolfsburg bid from Germany Wundesliga
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  Speaker 4: was the highest this past summer, which Josh Sargent turned down,
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  Speaker 4: not Norich turning it down. So you know, I think
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  Speaker 4: there's there's only one place that this goes if it's
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  Speaker 4: going to get done, and that's with a higher offer
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  Speaker 4: from Toronto FC. You know, if they try to stick
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  Speaker 4: to eighteen to twenty million, I think they're going to
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  Speaker 4: fall short of this transfer. And you know, frankly, I think,
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  Speaker 4: you know, we have been around this game long enough
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  Speaker 4: to know that usually that bid gets pushed up and
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  Speaker 4: usually this transfer happens. But I think that Norris is
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  Speaker 4: dug in right now and I don't think. I don't
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  Speaker 4: think they're gonna make this easy on Joss Sargent.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more.
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  Speaker 1: I think, as you know, as we've looked over the years,
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  Speaker 1: that many of these situations, because they happen all the time,
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  Speaker 1: right it happened with the Zachad going to to Liverpool
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  Speaker 1: this summer. There's normally no turning back on these. There's
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  Speaker 1: no turning back. So I don't see Josh coming back
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  Speaker 1: to Norwich. Norwich at any point. Once you get sent
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  Speaker 1: to the youth team, I mean, that's a sign right
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  Speaker 1: there that likely the coach doesn't really want him in
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  Speaker 1: the locker room anymore. And I think, as Paul said,
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  Speaker 1: this is now. It's the money game, right, It's how
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  Speaker 1: much can we get for him. Let's get the most
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  Speaker 1: we can get, Let's push as much as we can,
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  Speaker 1: and let's get the highest bid and get them out
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  Speaker 1: of here.
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  Speaker 2: I think that's what's going to happen.
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  Speaker 3: I've been, I think a little disappointed by the manager's
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  Speaker 3: public comments, and I I do know that people around
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  Speaker 3: this deal are as well. He keeps on blustering like,
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  Speaker 3: you know, he's not for sale, that's it, there's nothing there,
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  Speaker 3: and then he'll say things like, well, you know, at
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  Speaker 3: this bid, he's definitely not for sale. It would have
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  Speaker 3: to make more financial sense. So which one is it?
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  Speaker 3: Is he not for sale or do you want more money?
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  Speaker 3: And I do believe it's the latter, like you guys
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  Speaker 3: are saying. Logically, I think we all expect this to
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  Speaker 3: go and maybe Norwich are slow playing this. I mean
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  Speaker 3: not at this point, but because these negotiations I've been
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  Speaker 3: going on since beginning early December and wild the manager
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  Speaker 3: is giving a press conference last week saying he's not
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  Speaker 3: for sale. All of this nothing. They're still negotiating with
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  Speaker 3: Toronto during that pot like sources have told Paul and
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  Speaker 3: I the conversations are active wild. The manager is saying, no,
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  Speaker 3: he's not for sale. If he's not for sale, then
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  Speaker 3: you just stop talking. It's it is that simple. And
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  Speaker 3: some people thought that they were slow playing it from
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  Speaker 3: December to try to just stretch out how long they
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  Speaker 3: would have Sergeant at the club, give them more time
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  Speaker 3: for a replacement, all that other stuff, until things really
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  Speaker 3: hit ahead when Sergeant saiday, like, I'm not playing, like
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  Speaker 3: accept this deal or let this move happen, because that's
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  Speaker 3: what he wants. He didn't kick up of us with
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  Speaker 3: the Cincinnati bid. He didn't kick up with us when
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  Speaker 3: they got relegated and there was offers from the Premier League.
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  Speaker 3: He's very very strong interest from the Premier League a
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  Speaker 3: few years ago. He's been a good soldier in the Championship.
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  Speaker 3: He's been one of their most consistent players, definitely the
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  Speaker 3: most consistent goalscorer over his tenure at the club. So
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  Speaker 3: all of that, he was hoping that the club were
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  Speaker 3: gonna be more collaborative, more cooperative. He just welcomed he
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  Speaker 3: and his wife their third kid. They want to go
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  Speaker 3: back to North America for family reasons, and that's part
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  Speaker 3: of the reason why or that is the reason why
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  Speaker 3: they didn't go to Wolfsburg in the summer, because they
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  Speaker 3: do love Norwich and what they wanted was to there.
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  Speaker 3: Whenever he leaves was to be back to North America
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  Speaker 3: and Toronto FC came up with a competitive offer. Paul,
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  Speaker 3: maybe right, it could be a little bit higher. This
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  Speaker 3: is still a significant potential fee, whether it is eighteen
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  Speaker 3: and like you said, I don't think that that's gonna
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  Speaker 3: get it done either, but something in this ballpark, it's
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  Speaker 3: pretty significant. It's not as if Toronto are offering, you know,
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  Speaker 3: eight million, right like, so while Norris probably want more,
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  Speaker 3: it's not it's not as if it's, you know, just
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  Speaker 3: a ridiculous bid. So this is this is interesting. We'll
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  Speaker 3: see how it goes. And the MLS transfer window is
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  Speaker 3: open until March, so if Norris really wanted to drag
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  Speaker 3: this out, there's still time. Like it's not the January
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  Speaker 3: transfer window closing date that would be the final day
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  Speaker 3: for this because MLS that the registration is different. Right now,
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  Speaker 3: there is interest or at least he's on a list
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  Speaker 3: of nodding forced. I was told very clearly he wants
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  Speaker 3: Toronto and only Toronto. It's that simple. They need to
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  Speaker 3: get a deal done. So I'm curious to see where
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  Speaker 3: this goes in the next few days.
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  Speaker 4: Three three kids at twenty five. I hope he's negotiating
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  Speaker 4: with Toronto for a living nanny or something into that contract,
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  Speaker 4: that DP contract, because man, I got two and I'm
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  Speaker 4: done at this. I can't, I couldn't, I couldn't do
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  Speaker 4: another one.
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  Speaker 3: Not to be geopolitical here, but he does get to
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: go back to MLS and and Canada free healthcare right there.
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  Speaker 3: There's a lot of there's a lot of bonuses there
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  Speaker 3: that that aren't going to be part of the contract
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  Speaker 3: that he might get in Toronto that aren't in you know, Cincinnati,
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  Speaker 3: San Jose or insert any other There's.
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  Speaker 4: Always the benefit of playing in Canada, and unless you
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: get paid in US dollars and you're living in Canada,
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  Speaker 4: usually a good thing for the players.
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  Speaker 3: There onto another player who in that same summer where
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  Speaker 3: Josh Sargent almost went to f C Cincinnati, another player
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  Speaker 3: that was on their list is Western McKinney. Western McKinney
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  Speaker 3: continues to be in perhaps the form of his life
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  Speaker 3: for certainly one of the best periods in his career.
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  Speaker 3: It's coming out a great time. With his contract set
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  Speaker 3: to expire this summer. Ben Jacobs has reported that there
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: have been some approaches from Premier League clubs about signing
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: a pre contract. When your contract is up within six months,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: you are allowed to officially negotiate and he could technically
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  Speaker 3: sign a new deal to join a new club in
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  Speaker 3: the summer. It's not there yet. I'm curious to see
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: where this is going to go. But Western McKinney it's
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  Speaker 3: a really good time to be in this good form,
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  Speaker 3: not just for club with the World Cup coming up
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  Speaker 3: this summer. From what I heard a few weeks ago.
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  Speaker 3: I haven't checked in on this again. There was no
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: approaches from Juventus about a new contract yet, and I'm
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: not really sure where this one's gonna go and where
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Wes McKinney's future lives.
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  Speaker 4: Well, there's an update today actually out of Italy about
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: that that youve do want a new deal with Weston mckenniye,
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  Speaker 4: they do want to re up him. He's playing, like
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  Speaker 4: you said, really really good football right now for them
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  Speaker 4: and they would like to lock him up. You know,
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  Speaker 4: we talked about the Joss Sargent situation. It's a matter
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  Speaker 4: of leverage right. Lawrence is looking at it saying, we
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  Speaker 4: have you for several years left on your contract. We're
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  Speaker 4: not worried about relegation. Josh sargent side is saying, we
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  Speaker 4: have this relegation clause where we could go for much
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  Speaker 4: cheaper and we're in the relegation zone. That's a game
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  Speaker 4: of leverage right now. Weston mckennie's got a ton of leverage,
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  Speaker 4: right He's got interest from you know, reportedly interest from England.
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  Speaker 4: We know he's had interest from Major League Soccer, and
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  Speaker 4: we know that there are teams in MLS that are
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: able to put big money down for a player like
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: Weston McKenny And so he can go to Juve now
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  Speaker 4: and say, listen, I'm playing well for you. I'm probably
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  Speaker 4: going to play at the World Cup this summer and
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  Speaker 4: play well. The price isn't going down. He's in a
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  Speaker 4: really really powerful position, I think for a player. And
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: so you know, what's the rush, what's the rush to
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  Speaker 4: get a new deal done? Make sure you're getting the
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  Speaker 4: most out of this moment.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Tabo, I was gonna ask you, if you
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: were advising Western right now, what would be on the
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: top of your mind. Would you say Hey, let's play
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  Speaker 3: this out to the World Cup and banking on the
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: market being strong and coming off of a fresh World
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  Speaker 3: Cup and being a free agent. Or if there's the
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: right offer on the table now that say it's from England,
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  Speaker 3: do you just sign it? And then that also risks
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: the locker room political side of things, where particularly with
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Italian clubs, if you sign a pre contract somewhere else,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: you seem to fall out of the rotation on the field.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean those are all good points, right, because
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  Speaker 1: I'll start with this by saying that I'm shocked that
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: you event just let it go this long, right because
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: as Paul's talking about leverage, you vent this has no
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: leverage right now really except for playing time.
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  Speaker 2: That's all they have left.
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  Speaker 1: And Western's having a good season, He's having a good
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: season for a top, top club in the world. You
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: vent this as a top club. And I think I'm
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: sure he's got tons of offers. So I at this point,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: considering that you know Wesson can leave for free in
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: the summer, I can't imagine that he's going to come
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  Speaker 1: back to Juventus because I think the offers that he's
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: he has on the table without a transfer, they have
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  Speaker 1: to be huge. And so you know, to answer your
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: other question in terms of should he wait until the
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: summer and see if the World Cup and if he
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  Speaker 1: does well, I would not wait until this summer.
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  Speaker 2: This is the time.
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  Speaker 1: You know the iron's hot, he has all the leverage,
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  Speaker 1: he likely has a ton of offers, match all the
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  Speaker 1: offers up against each other and get the most money
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  Speaker 1: you can.
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  Speaker 2: And it's likely not going to be at Juventus.
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  Speaker 3: And with that, and tap to your point, when Cincinnati
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  Speaker 3: we're chasing him hard in the summer of twenty twenty four.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know the exact value of his Juventus contract,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: but Paul, you can jump in here. I'm fairly certain
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  Speaker 3: that Cincinnati's offer would be at least double of what
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: he's getting paid right now, maybe even a little bit more.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: Maybe they were asking for a little bit more. And
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: we all know the money in the Premier League is
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: going to at least has the potential to be more
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: than Juventus. So not just the leverage of this contract
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: being walked down, it's the financial leverage of like he
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: knows if it's likely staying in Europe or if it
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  Speaker 3: is going if it's going back to MS, I'll probably
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: where the most money is because the only way you're
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: gonna convince him to come to MLS right now is
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: with a huge contract. But the English offers are going
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: to be higher than Juventus in all likelihoods. So Paul,
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  Speaker 3: what else can you feel in on that?
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's down to what Weston McKenny wants.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: You know, where do you put your priority? Is it
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: just on money? Is it just on finances, because if
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: it's just about the money, you're right, it'll probably be
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: MLS that has the highest financial offer. Is it a
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: mix of the best financial offer with the best level
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: that you can play at, because again you're right, Premier
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: League teams are going to pay more than you've is
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: more than likely. Does he want to play Champions League football?
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: What does he want out of the next phase of
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: his career because he's entering essentially right now the kind
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: of prime moment. You know, the next year or two three,
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: we're seeing him play as best soccer. This is when
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: he should be playing his best soccer. So where does
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: he want to do that? You know what's interesting about
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: Weston is like there's two sides of his personality from
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: from a distance, and you know, I've gotten to know
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: him a little bit. His family have done a couple
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: of stories. You know, I think that Weston has this
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: kind of laid back personality and approach that can rub
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: people wrong sometimes. But he also is the type of
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: player that he likes getting pushed. He likes to kind
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: of get that motivation and prove people wrong. And he's
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: done it year after year after you year at Juve.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: And I also wonder whether that factors into the back
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: of his mind that every preseason for the last couple
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: of years he showed up at Juve, no parking spot,
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: no locker room, no locker in the locker room. Now
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: he's like, oh, now you want me, Now you want
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: to keep me around? Like no, Like where when did
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: you buy that loyalty over the last few years? Like
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: that wasn't there. So you know, it'll be interesting to
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: see which way Western goes with this. But you know,
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: my gut, I for a long time I thought he's
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: gonna go down Mols. He's kind of the right guy.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: He'll go in this moment. But I feel like the
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: way he's playing and kind of sensing that he's touching
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: this this next level of his quality. I wonder whether
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: that'll just intrigue him of you know, can I go
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: to another big club and and and push this form
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: to the next next tier, you know.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: So that that's where I was at too, Like sorry, sorry, tap,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: like that I would have expected twenty twenty four. I
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: thought that since he was gonna happen because they have
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: all the money and all of that, and I just
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: didn't And now I would also say, I'm assuming he
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: says the name of it.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, I was just gonna not repeat what Paul said,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: but follow on that because I you know, obviously I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: know Weston as a person as well, and I think
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I think he'll likely have a little bit of a
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: chip on his shoulder about you know, the EPL, and
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: that the fact that he was there and that you know,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: he'll want to prove to everybody that he can be
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: a big player there too, and I would love to
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: see that. I would love for him to be able
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: to get a shot to go back to the EPL,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: and because I think he can do well there.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: I would agree. Last one here, Senegal has won the
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: AFCAN and why that ties into the national team is
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: because Senegal or the penultimate opponent for the United States
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: before the World Cup. As tab here is rubbing the
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: towel that the ball boys, the Moroccan ball boys tried
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: to steal from the Senegalese goalkeeper. There's too much to
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: catch up on to try to even run it down
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: here from the craziness of that game that included a
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: couple of dubious refereeing decisions, a the Senegal players leaving
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: the field going back to the locker room, there being
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: a delay between the penalty called and stoppage sim from
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Morocco by about twenty minutes to whin they took the
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: penalty they tried at Pananka, they saved it, They go
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: to extra time, Senegal wins. All along the way, the
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Senegalese backup goalkeeper is standing next to the goal at
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: all times because the game. It was raining during the game,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: and every time that Mendy would grab his towel throw
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: it back, the Moroccan ballboys or a Moroccan player would
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: come over and try to steal the towel. So it
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: ended up with the Senegal's backup goalkeeper just standing next
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: to the goal holding the towel. And it wasn't the
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: attempts to take the towel got less and less cloaked.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: It just became like trying to do tug of war.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: And apparently the referees were just okay with this. This
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: is all insane. Tap go in any direction you want
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: from here, because I don't even know.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'll start by saying that it was
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: a great tournament. You know that we saw great teams. Uh,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: it was really a fun tournament to watch, how dynamic
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: the team were, teams were, the speed of transition of
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: the teams, and the fun that it that it was
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to watch teams like Morocco play because we've we've been
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: watching Morocco sort of develop over the last six seven
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: years into a little bit of a world power, right
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: they were, they were at the top of their game,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: and and we expected a tournament like this, and so
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, you know, Morocco being h is going
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: to be a you know, fortunately because of what happened,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: we start thinking about Morocco being a World Cup host,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: you know, the next World Cup. You know, the situation
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: with with the goalkeeper, you know, for goalkeepers, it's always
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: important for them to have a towel. And again i'll
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: take the disclaimer on me not knowing much about goalkeeping.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Tony proven you're not caring.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, yeah, well it's a little bit more of that.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: But I do know that the goalkeepers have like to
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: have their gloves just wet enough but not too wet,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: so that they get a good grip on the ball right,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and so it's important for them to have a towel
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: on the side of the goal. And I think, you know,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: apparently what happened in the final was that you know,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the not only the bull boys, but there were some
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: administrators on the side of the goal fighting with a
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: backup goalkeeper who was trying to protect the starting goalkeeper's
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: towel from just being on the side of the goal.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And apparently that the final was not the only game
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: where it happened, that it had happened in other games
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: that Morocco participated in. You know, I think this is
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: serious and it's embarrassing really for Morocco that, you know,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: a country that has come so far in terms of soccer,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: that has beautiful stadiums now, that has an amazing team,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and that really had a great tournament all the way
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: up until the final, although in the final they didn't
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: play well at all. It leaves us with that image
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: of what's going on over there? Is this serious? Are
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: they serious about hosting events or are they not serious?
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Because what happened with the goalkeeper situation and then with
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the Senegal team, you know, walking off the field when
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the penalty kick was called. There were a lot of
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: situations there that we can dig into that we could
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: potentially talk for hours because what happened with the Senegal
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: team in the ninety seventh minute when the penalty kick
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: there was a penalty kick on a zero zero game,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: final seven minute of the game and a plus eight
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: right the referee had given an extra eight minutes, ninety
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: seventh minute penalty kick against Senegal, which was you know,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: you go to var it was a penalty, it's a foul,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: it's a penalty. The Senegal team, the Senegal coach calls
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: this team off the field. The game was delayed for
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. Before you know, Senegal came back on the field.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Thank you to Money because he pulled his team right
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: back on the field and showed great leadership. The penalty
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: kick was saved, but the whole thing was embarrassing. I
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: can't believe we had to watch that and it's unfortunate
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: because the rest of the tournament was truly great.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Paul, moving past the final, just more focused on the
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: United States preparation for the World Cup. What will the
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Senegalese team do in terms of obviously they were really
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: really quality opposition, but in terms of preparing the United
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: States and it being a big test right before the
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: World Cup.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, shout out to
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: Tom King and the team there at US Soccer. They've
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: been nailing their friendlies. They get pair of the Pataguay
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: and Australia who end up being group of opponents, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: now they pick the winner of uh in Senegal u uh.
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: And this was the goal, right for these games is
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: you want the best World Cup opponents that you can
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: get to prepare the team right, and you want to
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: face teams that play different styles. So they've been trying
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: to schedule these friendlies from different continents because at the
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: World Cup, obviously that's what it's all about. So you know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: you're going to get a really good Senegalese team now
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: that has is going to be filled with confidence going
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: into the tournament, is going to be coming and bringing
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: their best and I think putting on a show.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: They they're they're a fun team to watch play, and
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: I think the US needs to play different styles of
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: of opponents, so it's going to be different, you know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: playing that game in Charlotte as the like you said,
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: the penultimate game, and then coming here to Germany, to
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: Chicago where I live and playing Germany a much different
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: style of football. That's what you want going into the tournament,
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: you you know, I'm sure Pochetino will try different tactics,
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: different ideas in both of those friendlies, different ways to defend,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: so that the US is ready to go once the
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: group stage starts.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: I'm certainly looking forward to it. And like you said,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: this has been a really good run of strong friendlies
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: dating back to you know, September, October, November, I think
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: they nailed all six of those opponents, and again moving
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: forward in March and then in May right before the
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: World Cup. So that is credit where credit is do.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: It got a little easier as World Cup qualifying ended,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: so there's more opponents on the board. Well done to US,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: M and T. But it's time for a really quick break.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back and we're going to get to
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Paul's top five most important US men's national team things
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: to watch it for the World Cup. Please rate, review,
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: and subscribe to Inside American Soccer with Tom Boger, Tabra Amas,
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to Inside American Soccer.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Let's get straight into it. Paul came with a little
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: bit of homework now that he's a soon to be
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: a published author, so he had to be like a
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: student here like a professor. He's going to give us
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: his five most important things to watch for the US
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: MNT ahead of the World Cup. Paul kick us off
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: with number five.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: All right, Number five is the back line battles. Things
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: have changed with the way the US plays and that
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: style fits kind of a wing back system. So we've
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: seen Max Arvesten starting at left wing back left back
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: for most of the last year. But Anthony Robinson is back.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: How quickly does he jump back into the picture for
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: the US. The assumption is, of course he'll be the starter.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: But Pochattino's whole kind of ethos is don't assume anything,
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: and so I'm not going to assume that Anthony Robinson
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: just takes that starting job right back without a fight
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: for Max Arsten. The other side is even more intriguing
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: for me. You've got Sergenio Deak who seems like a
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: perfect natural fit for that position, but with the way
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: the US is playing right now, Tim weya also is
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: probably slotted in that position, So you've got dest against Weeya.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: And then Alex Freeman, who we thought would be a
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: another player to kind of provide depth behind desk, but
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: he started at the right back slash right center back
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: hybrid position in the last friendly for the US, played
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: really well there and then scored again in the Uruguay game.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: So you know, there are some interesting battles at play here.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: I think it's very well worth watching how Anthony Robinson
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: continues to play coming back from his knee injury, and
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: what happens in that desk versus way a matchup for
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: the starting job with the right side.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think these are rich people problems that
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: we're having on the outside back positions, right, They're good
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: problems to have. I think we're very lucky to have
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: four or five good players wide that could potentially compete
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: for a position. All that does is make your starter better,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: whoever it's.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Going to be.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine that we won't start the World Cup
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: with Jedi Robinson on one side and Sergenio Desk on
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the other. But having said that, that will have to
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: be at their best to be able to do that,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: and that's a good for us.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Paul really really quickly, is there any chance that you
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: could see Anthony Robinson playing left sided center back in
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: in a hybrid way where he's able to get forward
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: first Reto Pochettino group or don't even consider it?
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think to Tab's point is this
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: is a good dilemma, a good question to be asking.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: We haven't had Anthony Robinson healthy for a year as
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: this formation change has happened, and Tim Reim has been
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: the stalwart on that left center back position. I would
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: imagine that Pochettino will want Reim on the field. He's
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: trusted him so much since he's taken over. He's worn
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: the captain's arm band for the vast majority of games
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: under Pochettino. But again, this gives you options. When you
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: have all of your players hopefully healthy and playing well,
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: now you can start to tinker. It's why we saw
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Desk starting with Freeman inside of him against Uraguayan against
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Padaguay and it worked really well. So this is what
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: we might see a little bit of experimenting come March
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: of You know, what is the right mix of guys
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: on the back line?
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Number four?
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: Number four is the number nine depth chart for me.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: When Balagan is healthy, he is the starter. The US
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: has looked different when he's on the field. They've looked
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: more dynamic, they've looked dangerous. I think he is the
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: best number nine in the pool. But Riccardo Peppi broke
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: his arm and that has opened the door behind him.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: You know, will Patrick Adamon get back into the picture?
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: He scored a goal on the weekend. Is it going
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: to be Hoji Wright? You know, Josh Sargent has kind
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: of fallen off. He hasn't scored for the US since
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: twenty nineteen. Would a move to MLS change that? I'm
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: not so sure. But we now have to watch all
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: of those strikers behind Balagan to say, you know who,
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: first of all is going to be the third striker
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: on the roster. But you know, does Ricardo Peppy once
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: again miss out on a World Cup if he can't
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: get healthy back on the field and scoring in time
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: to Tab's point earlier. This is a problem that the
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: US should be thankful for that they you know, hopefully
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: have four or five strikers scoring goals and that could
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: be options. But I'm keeping an eye on a Jaman
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: and Haji right especially over the next couple months.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree on that. You know.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: If anything, we're happy to see that best is playing
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: really well, you know, and he plays Madrid next, so
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: that's uh, it's not like he's going to go backwards
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: from here. It's a good sign for us that the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I think the number nine position is settled. I think
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: in the end, I think once Pepi gets back on
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the field, let's not forget that it is an arm injury.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Let's not forget that although he won't be on the
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: field for a while, he likely will be training a
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: little bit sooner because they will be able to protect
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: the arm in such a way so that he can
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: get training in so fitness will not be an issue
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: as it would potentially be with a lower leg injury.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: So I you know, I think Peppi and Baligan will
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: go and I think as a third forward it's going
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: to be a battle between Hajji Wright and and ajimn
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: that's sort of how I see it at this point.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: I could see them bringing four, particularly given how much
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: different Patrick Aajumong the physicality is from from the other forwards,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: and there is at least a possibility that you could
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: play two center forwards with each other at some point.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: So I think that if we're getting down like roster
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: spots twenty four to twenty five to twenty six, probably
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: value in bringing a fourth forward, particularly when one of
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: them is likely going to be Patri Gojamong who is
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: different from the others rather than just you know, if
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: it was Josh Arge Riccardo Peppy. There's enough similarities there
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: where Peppy's probably been better with the national team versus like, okay,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: like there's a different profile here to change the game
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: if we need it. But that's kind of going to
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: be very very interesting. These feel like the same questions
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: going all the way back into qualification for the twenty
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: twenty two World Cup. No firm answer, but Balgan has
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: certainly helped that one out. Paul number three well quickly.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: One small note on that, I think you're you're right
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: that there's the window to do it. With Hoji right
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: able to play a winger but Brendan Aronson's form in
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: the Premier League has changed the dynamic and the competition
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: at that forward position with when you're factoring in wingers
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: at number nine. So you know, it's interesting to see
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: how that'll play out with how you think about your
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: depth chart, because he was a guy who I thought
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: was on the fringe and maybe is now playing his
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: way onto the World Cup roster number three. For me,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: we're starting to get into the more interesting stuff now,
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: goalkeeper battle, you know, is it a battle? I think
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: like we are saying it's a battle. I don't know
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: that anyone in the US STAP is saying it's a battle.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: Matt Freeze is the number one, he's been the number
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: one for Pochettino. But I did have a chat with
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Matt Turner earlier this offseason when he was at the
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: MLS Media Day. He seems intent, intent as he should
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: be on trying to play his way back into the
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: goal for the US men's national team for the World Cup.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: So what am I watching going into the March window
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: and coming out of it. Matt Turner's form in New England.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Does he get a shot to play one of those
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: two games in March. Is this a goalkeeper battle or
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: is Pochettino's putting Matt Freeze in both of those friendlies
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: and saying you are the guy for the World Cup.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean those are all good points, obviously.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I think if there is one thing that actually two
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: things that Pochettino has shown us so far. One is
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: that he really trust him Reim on the field, and
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: two is that he trust Freeze to be his goalkeepers.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: And that's a good place to be when you're a coach.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: You know you're only six months removed from the World Cup.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: You've been trusting the goalkeeper. He's been delivering for you,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: and I don't really see competition for him going forward now.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Of course, the goalkeeping position, you're only a mistake or
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: two away from losing your spot, right, so we have
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: to see how you Freeze will do over the next
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: three four months in the league once the league gets going.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: But I don't see that being a hard competition. Having
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: said that, I think there's a huge value to having
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Turner there. I'm rooting for Turner to have a good
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: spring because he needs it number one, because potentially he
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: could be off the roster if he doesn't. Right and
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I think his experience there because he played in the
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: last World Cup, will be a great value to have
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: at the very least on the bench. And then it'll
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: be it'll be a matter of whether Pochettino wants to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: go with Chelt Brady or even a Coachen as a
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: younger player potentially for the future. So but I think
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: the number one position is pretty much sealed at this point.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Matt Matt Freeze has started each of the last twelve
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: USM and T games and twelve of the last thirteen.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: And this is a year in which what seventy one
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: players were called up. This was a year of a
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: lot of experimentation, a lot of change. The one spot
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: that didn't change or one of two maybe with like
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: you said with Tim Reem, one of the spots that
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: didn't James was goalkeeper Matt Freeze. So he's got a
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: huge lead. But I'm excited for Matt Turner. I think
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: he's just gonna be one of the best goalkeepers and
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: him last again, I hope that he gets right because
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: when he was leaving New England to go to England,
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: literally the best or second best shot stopper I've seen
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: over the last decade in this league, and the numbers
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: back that up. And he went to England and they
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: tried to make him play with his feet too much
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: and his brain broke a little bit. So I'm excited
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: to see the best of Matt Turner again. But Paul
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: go on to number.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: Two, number two, What is Wes and mckenney's role in
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: this US team? This is the player that I was
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: watching to say, could he be somebody who actually becomes
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: the shot guy left off of the roster? Where is
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: he going to fit into this? I think he's playing
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: too well, first of all, left off of this course,
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: but with the way the US midfield plays, I'm interested
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: to see how Pochattino sees him. You know, he likes
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: to roam, he likes to push forward. He's not a
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: guy who wants to just sit and kind of be disciplined,
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: and so in some ways he's actually a better fit
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: to play as the second number ten next to Christian Polisic,
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: which would put him into a position battle with Molick Tillman,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: Brendan Aronson potentially Gee Arena. You know, I think there's
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: some validity to playing Wesson in that higher position. If
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: you play with a true number six or another midfielder
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: willing to sit behind Tyler Adams. I think you can
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: actually get what Tyler Adams is best at on the field,
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: which is allowing Tyler to roam and break things up,
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: break up passing lanes, get stuck in, you know, find
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: ways to kind of press and cause problems. So for me,
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: Tyler Adams Tanner Tessaman feels like the more natural fit.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: But that means Weston's in a real battle to start
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: up in the higher position, or does when it comes
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: down to its Tino say, no, we're going with kind
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: of a very similar midfield to what Creig Burhalter sometimes ran,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: that three man midfield, only with Christian Polisic inside as
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: the number ten. This time around, I'll be very interested
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: to see what west mckennie's role is come March.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, same here, and you know, and if anything, Pushatino
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: has surprised us time and time again, so I wouldn't
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: be shocked to even see McKinney on the right side.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: We saw it with Musa and I think didn't belong there,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: but but he was there. And McKinny has done it
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: for Juventus, so it wouldn't be a complete shock that
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: McKenny could potentially be on the right side.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Haven't said that.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I can't, you know, in watching McKenny play, I can't
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: imagine this team without him.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, he just has too much to offer. You know.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: We've discussed before how he's likely.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: One of the only eights that we have that can
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: end inside the six yard box of the opposing team,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: and there's a huge value to that. And so although
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: he would be what we're saying here is that potentially
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: he's he's competing with Tillman as that connector, you know,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: distributor creator, and he's not that he brings another component
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: it as let's say Bellingham would bring to Real Madrid.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Right He's the guy that comes from behind and ends
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: in the box for the header or to finish a play,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and there's a huge value to that. So it's really
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: interesting what Pochettino has can do with this. But ultimately
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I think we need to find them on the field,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: and I agree with Paul that the best combination behind
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: him would be Adams and Testament.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: So I think this is extremely fascinating and I've kind
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: of changed my own view on this as performances and
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: form has changed, and we'll do this probably ten more
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: times before the opening game of the World Cup. But
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: my initial contention was I don't think he makes sense
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: as the partner at Taler Adams are all the reasons
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: that you guys laid out. He is not best if
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: you're asking him to sit and hold a space. He's
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: best when he's roaming and attacking, but so is Tyler Adams.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: And in this he's would be better as like a
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: central midfielder and an eight and a four to three
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: three than in the three four two one because there's
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: one less central midfielder and those playlayers have to be
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: so disciplined and considering the space and dominating the space,
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: whereas Wesson is best when he can roam and fill
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: in wherever he needs to go. His engine is intellect
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: all the things. And I would have said he doesn't
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: give enough an attacking punch to be like the second
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: number ten with Poolsick. I think I've changed my mind
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: on that at this point because we're gonna get a
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: lot of attacking from Desk Orwea or Arson or Robinson,
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: and it's gonna hinge on them. And I do still
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: think that there's a slope where you know McKenny isn't
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: doing enough to be that second number ten, But I
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: think at this moment I would have him in the
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: starting eleven, ahead of Tilman, next to Pulls.
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean to Tab's point earlier too. When you
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: have an attack that is based around wing backs getting forward,
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: getting on the ball and the overlap looking to serve
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: into the box, having a guy like Weston who's arriving
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: late into the box, who's got a nose for goal
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: on crosses, that might be the type of player you
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: want out there on the field. So you know, part
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: of it will be kind of what he wants out
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: of the US attack. I thought Tillman and Baligan played
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: really well together when they were on the field. Again,
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: another good problem to have, but one that has a
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: ripple effect because if you think you want to play
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: west them on the field no matter what, and you
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: play him deeper, Tyler Adams becomes a different type of
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: player in midfield when he's paired with Wes McKinney. So
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: you know, all of these little seemingly little decisions or
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: singular decisions, they're not singular. It affects everything about how
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: the team plays and how each player's role kind of
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: fits within the bigger picture.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: And with that, what is your number one thing to watch?
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: Number one for me is the gi Orana situation. You know,
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: I'm interested to see how Pochettino approaches Giorana in general.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: He's got about four hundred minutes in the Bundesliga this
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: year for Gladbach. That's the most minutes he's had, and
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: I think the last three seasons he's only surpassed six
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: hundred minutes once since twenty twenty twenty twenty one. But
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: even though he's getting on the field a little bit more,
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: he still isn't producing no goals, no assists, and yet
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: he looked really good for the US when he was
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: on the field. How does Pochettino think about gi Arena
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: and this team? What is he looking for from him
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: on the club level when it comes to production and
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: playing time? Kind of with the messages that he's given
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: to the whole group. And obviously Geo does have this
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: skill set that's always been so intriguing for pretty much
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: anyone involved in US soccer. I don't know what the
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: right decision is. I don't know at all where this
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: one is going to land. Maybe tab you have a
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: gut instinct of where this goes. But I think this
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: is kind of the one player that you watch to say,
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: is this the surprise that gets thrown into the US team?
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you know, and you threw out some
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: great numbers, right If you're going to look at stats
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: and numbers, he has no shot.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: At making this World Cup team. Haven't said that.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I think when you look at the players that we
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: have the quality of players that we have on the team,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: and it's leave Christian Polisic aside for a minute here.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I think there's no player that can create more opportunities
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: within the final thirty yards of the field in g arena,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: and so that's a value to have.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: And this is why, you know, a few weeks.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Back, well now about you know, a month and a
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: half back, when the World Cup draw came out, I
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: said that the biggest person to benefit from the World
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Cup draw is gi Rena because it's likely that in
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: the World Cup we will have the ball and we
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: will be in the opposing side of the field, and
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: that's where Giorina is good with the ball. The reason
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: he's not doing well at his club and the reason
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: we keep you know, saying over and over when when
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: is Raina breaking out? You know, we've been saying this
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: since Jurina is fifteen years old. The fact is, I've
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: watched I think gi Arena enough now to know that
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: when the game becomes long, when the game becomes you know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: one one side of the field to the other, Grena
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: can't get there. Giorna is a half field game, and
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: we need to be dominating games to be able to
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: use his quality. And I think because of that, I
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: think there's a great value for him. If there are
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: games in the World Cup and we're dominating and we
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: need a goal and we need to break a team down,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: it's nice for a coach to be able to look
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: down the bench and find someone who could potentially be
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: a solution to break down the other team. And I
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: think that's where the value is. Havn't said everything else,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: you know, You know, we've been looking at Giorina for
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: years as a young player who has potential. At some
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: point you have to stop looking into the future and
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: say what can you do for us now? And he's
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: had difficulties with every team in Europe for the last
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: four or five.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: Years, since the Bundesliga took their winter break. He had
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: started the final three games before that break. In their
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: three games since, he's played a total of twenty six minutes.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: So it is it is up and down. It feels
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: like right when he was getting momentum, and like you said, tab,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: if it's like we're doing a blind thing where you
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: just look at the stats, player a player be, it's
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: not going to be him. But we all know what
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: he's capable of and what he showed for the national
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: team in November, and I think that as long as
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: he's fit, he's going to be on I'd say on
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: the plane. I guess technically on the plane he'd have
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: to come from Germany. Whether as long as he's fit,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: I don't really care what the numbers are, he's probably
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: going to be on the roster. And we were talking
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: in November, like, hey, is this guy gonna start, Like
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: it's the fluctuation with Geo Reina is crazy, Like Paul said,
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: he just hasn't played that many minutes. And again, really
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: this is a smaller sample size because of how limited
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: he's been on the field, but over the last year,
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: in seven hundred and forty minutes, which again is not
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: a lot. He is in like the twenty fifth percentile
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: or worse in like shot creating actions like expected goals
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: plus expected assists, shots progressive passes received. That means that
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: he's getting on the ball and passing forward like his
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: progressive carries that play against Mexico that we were talking
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: about last week about when you think of a one
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: highlight for Gio, it's that incredible run against Mexico. He's
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: not doing that right now because he doesn't have like
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: he doesn't either have the capability or trust in his
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: hamstrings that that explosion is there. So I don't know.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: It is very, very fascinating. But no matter what, all
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: this evidence has stacked up, then you watch him against
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: Powered Mine, it's like, oh my god, he could be
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: one of the best players on the field. So it's
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: a it's a very big wildcard. Give yeah.
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: I mean, and it's crazy you you you've mentioned it
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: in Passing tavn't I kind of looked over it, but
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: we shouldn't because this has always been the thing with
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: Geo over the last few years. It's staying healthy all
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: the way till next summer. You know, he hasn't done
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: that for a full season in five years plus now,
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: so that'll be the biggest X factor with ge Arena.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: Does he stay healthy and on the field to even
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: be in contention? And I hope he does obviously, you know,
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: and then we can get to the forum and we
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: can get to what he brings. But the number one
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: goal for Geo has to be staying healthy, staying fit,
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: and building up over the course of Its.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Easy to stay all healthy.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: I don't play though, you know, if he's playing very little,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: the fun is easy.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. What do you want to do and
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: you want to get on the field or you want
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: to stay in contention.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: As much as things change, they stay the same. I
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: feel like a lot of these conversations we could beer going,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: you know, in twenty twenty one and leading into the
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty two rook Cup. But thanks for the top
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: five there, Paul. Always great to get a perspective from
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: somebody who Paul, I think you've been at literally every
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: single camp for how many years? A decade and at.
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: Least yeah, five or six years now, I mean twenty
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: twenty there were no camps because of COVID, so I
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: guess it goes back to before twenty nineteen. It's been
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: a while.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: It's been a while, Boots on the Ground, Capitol j
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: But again. Paul wrote a book titled The Messy Effect,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: How the Global legs and Change the Future of American
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: Soccer that is available for pre order wherever books are sold. Paul,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: what was the journey in writing this book and how
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: many times did it change from Because these are things
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: happening in real time and you have your layout, your structure,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: the things you want to hit, the interviews, want to
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: do and then no, no, no, I need to go
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: back to Miami again because I need to do this,
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: or I need to go to the legal offic Like
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: how many times it things change? And this process became
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: really fluid in getting the final product.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it was such an interesting process because
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: of what you said. I mean, writing a book about
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: something that's evolving in real time. I knew writing a
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: book would be difficult and it ended up being the
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: hardest thing I've done in my life. But choosing something
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: that was happening in real time definitely increased the difficulty.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: And I would say, like, you know, my idea of
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: what the book was going to be for the first year.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: After about a year of reporting it. I had to
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: kind of go back and scrap that idea completely, just
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: the amount of access I needed. It wasn't happening the
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: way I wanted to happen to make the book work
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: that way. But in the end, I think it ended
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: up making it a better book, because this isn't a
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: book that's just a season in the life of Inner Miami.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: This isn't a book that's a messy biography. You know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: this is a book that's about where American soccer is
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: right now, and what Major League Soccer's place is in
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: that ecosystem, and how Messy coming to MLS has kind
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: of altered those dynamics, how it accelerated some of the
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: conversations that were very necessary for Major League Soccer, and
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: how MLS's decision making process over the last couple of years,
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: and what its future looks like could end up changing
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: its place in the landscape, and how that would alter
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: the landscape. So, you know, I kind of look at
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: this as a book that's a mix of a lot
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: of things. It's got plenty of behind the scenes of
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: MESSI It's got a lot of kind of the business
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: of soccer and the business of Major League soccer, going
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: into the board meetings of owners in Major League Soccer,
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: and then I think, you know, I always try to
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: find the human side of things and to kind of
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: bring to life who these people are that are making
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: these decisions. You know what it's like when Messi shows
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: up in your locker room, all those kind of human aspects.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: So I hope I hit on that as well. But
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: I think, you know, I tried to blend all three
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: of those things into one book, and to your point,
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: it was, you know, it was very challenging sometimes because
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: things kept changing, and even at the very end, I
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: had to pop down straight from DC at the World
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: Cup draw down to MLS Cup to make sure I
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: could be there for Messi winning MLS Cup, to add
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: an epilogue to the book so that we didn't miss
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: out on that moment in the Messy effect.
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: And let me say, Paul was on the field during
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: the from the final whistle on. So there's gonna be
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: some great, great details and color in there. There is.
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: I believe that there's plenty of really excellent books written
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: on around them. I believe there is truly one book
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: that is a must read for all MLS fans, whether
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: you're new, old, or or somewhere in the middle. It's
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: Grant Walls book on David Beckham and him coming here.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: Paul's book on Liono Messi and how He's changing. That
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: is going to be the second absolute must read. He
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: hates when I say this. He's the best American soccer
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: writer we have. So if you have any interest in
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: this topic, I promise you this will be time well
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: spent reading this book. But we got to take one
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: more quick break. We're gonna be right back. We're gonna
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: ship the focus back to Tab. We're gonna go inside
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: the locker room with Tab ram Us once again. Please rate,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: review and subscribed Inside American Soccer wherever you got your podcast.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: We'll be right back. Welcome back to in Soide American
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Soccer and it's time to go inside the locker room.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: Tab take us back to the nineteen ninety World Cup
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: after we spoke about the magical game that was in
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Trinidad to qualify for the World Cup. Now you get
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: there and take it away.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is actually really interesting because you know,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: we have discussed and many people have discussed over the
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: years about how you know, beating Trinidad and winning that
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: game and getting us for a World to you know,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: finally to a World Cup after forty years of not
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: having been in one.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: And as part of.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: That, obviously we always give sort of ourselves credit for
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: being part of a generation of players that got us
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: into this World Cup, and you know how fun that
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: was and how we overcame the challenges and all of
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the great things that make it for a great movie.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: But then the fact is now you've got to go
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: and play it right and and so you know, we
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: got drawn up in a group of three European teams
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: and that's that's still not easy today. So you can
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: imagine back then how difficult it was for players who
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: were really we were really not even professionals, and so
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: to not even be a professional player to go play
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: the World Cup with certainly a monumental task that that
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: we didn't even think about. So our first match was
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: against Czechoslovakia, and this was the Czechoslovakia's Karab who then
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: played at Genoa, you know, European Cups and everything else,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Beelick who played at Betsy Well, a bunch of they
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: had a bunch of great players. Having said that, we
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: were completely not prepared. I mean, if there was, I
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: you know, I think I think terms like rude awakening
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: are made because of things like this, right, I think
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: those terms are are put together because things like what
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: happened to us actually happened. Uh So, we get on
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: the field against the Czechoslovakian team and we we clearly
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: don't belong in any category, in any category physical, technical,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: you know, speed of play, anything you can add to it.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: You know, regardless of the preparation we had, we could
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: we could have never prepared for what was about to
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: happen to us. And you know, just being being as
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: naive as we were going into that game, we lost
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: the game five to one. We were down three zero
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: at halftime, Eric when all that had a red card
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: I think the first couple of minutes of the second half,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: which obviously didn't help us get back in the game
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: because now now we had.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: To play with ten.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Paul Kalajuri actually scored a great goal to kind of
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: get us back in it, you know, but the Checks
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: were able to score two more goals and missed the
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: penalty kick that Tony Miola saved late in the game, and.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Still beat us, beat us five to one.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: But okay, so I think I couldn't put us in
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: the worst light in terms of Okay, this is our
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: welcome back to a World Cup after forty years.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: This is where we are.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: And Tom, you and I have discussed many times about
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: how part of my own preparation to get to that
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: World Cup was playing Sunday games in a Sunday league
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: for the Brooklyn Italians, and by the way, playing in
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: the Futsal World Cup, you know, six months before in
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Holland that had, you know, in the middle of qualifying,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: so you know, unfortunately we had to deal with all
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: these things. We're going into a world which, you know,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: some of these guys were already playing in Syria, which
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: was like the NBA really of world football at the time.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: And so but but I think that the neat part
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: of this is that I think although no one ever
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: talks about this game, I think that game is likely
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: the turning point in US soccer, right because at that
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: point we realize, Okay, we did something that no one
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: thought we could do. We accomplished something no one thought
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: we could accomplish. But now we're in the reality of
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: can our country ever compete in world football?
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: And after taking a beating the way we did in
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the first game, it kind of you know, you, I
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: wish you could have seen what trainings were like after
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: that check game, because there were fist fights in practice.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: There was now everybody what happens to normal teams. This
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: is the growth of normal teams. You go out and
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: get hammerd and now old twenty guys think they should
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: be starting. So now you go, you got to go
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: into training, and that's the reality of what makes you better.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: And I think I always think that the guys that
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: survive that are kind of the guys that the guys
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: that kind of pushed us ahead, because we went from there.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: From there to play against Italy and Rome, and as
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: we're pulling up to the stadium in Rome, all we
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: could see is Italian fans on the side giving us
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: a double sign of two hands saying today is going
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: to be ten.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Right, That's what it was.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: That's what it was, because I think the and the
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: newspapers said the same. I think the World Cup record
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: for goals with something like nine to one, that El
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: salvad Or lost some sort of game, and the newspapers
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: are writing about how our next game was going to
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: be the record breaking game, and yet we pulled together,
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: and that's the first time that I think we created
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: the true American American culture for who we were as
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: a nation. Okay, so we're not good enough, but one
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: thing we can do is we can fight, and we
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: can fight all together. And I think we pulled together
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: in that Italy game, and we ended up losing one
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: zero in a tight game that we actually, by the way,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: didn't deserve, of course, but we could have tied at
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: the end with a Peter Vermi shot that was saved
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: by Walter Zenger right on the line, went under his legs.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: So I think that's the first time that we realized,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: you know what, this is really who we are.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: We have to improve as players.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: But we can fight like this, and if we can
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: fight like this, we can do anything.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: Let me just read off some of the names on
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: that Italian team. You already said Walter Zenga, Paolo Maldini,
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: Carlo Ancelotti, Roberto Baggio or Roberto Donadini, Roberto Mancini, and
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: you guys played them well.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: And then you had Jannini, you had you know, I
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: don't know if you mentioned Roberto Baggio Bagio at the time,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: but he was the highest transfer in the world, you know.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Scilachi Toto.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Sclaggi was the leading scorer in that whole World Cup.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Actually the game against US is the only game out
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: of the whole World Cup where he didn't score or
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: so no Italy. Italy was a great team, and by
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: the way, that Czechoslovakia team we lost to ended up
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: losing in the quarterfinals to West Germany, who was the
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: eventual champion. So it was really a turning point. It
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: was a neat place to be and out of the
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: many experiences that I've had, I really and truly see
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: that as a turning point for our national team.
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: I had a really interesting conversation after the last World
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: Cup with Virginio Desk and he talked about just the
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: experience of being there, being around the whole world of
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: football and seeing the level and the quality and also
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: the joy around the game inspired him for this next
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: four years. Like all he thought was like, I need
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: to play well enough to get back to another World Cup.
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: I wonder you talked about it from the macro point
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: of view of changing kind of American soccer and how
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: the team came together to say this has to be
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: our identity to compete and grow for you personally, when
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: you're on the field against Czechoslovakia the result goes the
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: way it does. You see the quality of the players
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: around you, how much to personally motivate you for the
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: next cycle and the rest of your career to say, Okay, like,
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: I have more I can get to. I have more
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: I have to get to if I want to compete
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: at the highest levels of this game.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a great question because it was. It
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: was the number one motivator. It was I want to
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: get to that level. I want to play that fast.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: It's you know, it's great that I have oldest skill
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: in the world, but if that skill is not developed
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: to play at the highest speed possible, it's not useful.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: And so it motivated me personally.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: I ended up having a pretty good World Cup because
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: then I got an offer from Spain after it, even
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: though we didn't do well. But I think it didn't
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: only motivate me. It motivated most of the team to think, hey,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: we can go do something. Just as I'll give you
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: the other side of that, I think some other players
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: on the team potentially, and by the way, they were
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: all great guys. But I think some of the guys thought,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: you know, this is probably not for me, you know,
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: And I think guys ended.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Up going in separate ways.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: But for me personally, to answer your question, it was
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: the number one motivator, knowing that, hey, I have to
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: get to the next level if I'm ever going to
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: make a difference in this game.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: That's incredible. These stories never ever get old, no matter
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: how much TAB has to downplay it. They are very
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: funny and very good every time we talk about it.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: But I think that's it for our episode today. Tap.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: Thank you as always, Paul, Thank you for joining again
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: the messy effect of the global legend. Thank you Soccer.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: Thank you for pre order wherever books are sold. I've
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: said a nice enough nice things to Paul. Paul you
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: kild is also on the Athletic, but read me on
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: the Athletic. Don't read Paul because I'm feeling uncomfortable for
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: all the nice things I said, Paul, thanks for being here.
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: No, thanks for having me, and yes, definitely read Tom.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Don't don't read my stuff.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: Well, I write it three hundred words at a time.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: You write seven hundred pages at a time, So depends
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: on what you wants two different people.
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: Here for that reason alone, For that reason alone.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: Thank you everybody for listening to Inside American Soccer again.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: Please rate, review and subscribe. Please continue to leave your
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: questions the comments, and all of our platforms. We're on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: and of course YouTube, where you can watch this show
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: in its full, in its entirety. In video, you get
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: to see Tab holding up the towel and making sure
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: that nobody in his house is trying to steal it.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Thank you everybody for joining. We'll see you all everybody
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: soon