Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Love and Romance for the Busy Entrepreneur!

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Love and Romance for the Busy Entrepreneur! · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Friend, you know how much I love reminding you about how the Enneagram can help you with your relationships and not just yourself.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited to have my dear friend Krista Harden back on the podcast for an episode all about using the Enneagram in your marriage.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: She just released her new book, The Enneagram in Marriage: Your Guide to Thriving Together in Your Unique Pairing.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: And it is stupendous.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: And truly, every married couple with any interest in the Enneagram really needs to get this book.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Of course, you've met Krista before on the summit or on the podcast, or maybe even at her wildly popular Instagram account.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: But her book takes the content that she has taught over the years to the next level.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: It's truly an easy to understand book, laid out really beautifully, and she combines her expertise of psychological assessment and marriage and family counseling, plus combines all 45 Enneagram pairings in relationships.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 45.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: And she manages to put all of this good stuff, plus creative stories and other Enneagram facts and insights all into one book.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, I really enjoy her perspective and calling relationships, the combination, a unique Enneagram glow.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: It's really about how the mutual influences of two types and intimate relationships across the seasons and shifts that every couple experiences, how it glows and grows.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: It's such a cool perspective.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, I really encourage you to get her book on Amazon or a local bookstore while you listen to this conversation.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: You also might want to have a pin handy for the tips that we're gonna give near the end.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: It's an intimacy building tip for each busy type.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: Hey there, I'm Amy Wicks, your guide by the side for your wholehearted journey.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: And friend, I get it.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Life can be a whirlwind, juggling family, work, and all the in-betweens.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: As a wife, mom to three teenagers, and building a growing business, I felt the overwhelm, the doubts, and the struggles too.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing: the Lord took my broken-hearted pieces and turned them into a beautiful story of clarity, peace, and joy.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: And now I'm here to help you do the same.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: With years of experience as a certified Enneagram coach, spiritual director, and working genius facilitator, I am here to provide you with practical wisdom and inspiration.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Through expert interviews and real life examples, you can uncover your strengths, motivations, and God's unwavering love.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: And together, we're gonna explore biblical truths, different personality profiles, and life rhythms that will empower you to break free from anxiety, shame, and frustration.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: I have walked the path, my friend, and I know the challenges you face.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: But that's why I'm here, by your side, cheering you on as you embrace wholehearted living.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: So grab your headphones, invite a friend, and let's embark on this transformative journey together.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Simply Wholehearted, where we laugh, learn, and flourish as a community.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, there is so much to talk about today, but I wanted to start off a question because you first, let's see, you and I talked in 2021 for my first summit, which had to take a hiatus this year, third annual, it's gonna happen next year.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: But yay! You talked about Enneagram glow.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: And right away, as we were talking about marriage, and I was talking about the type my husband was and me, and you're like, Oh, I can totally see that glow.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, ooh, I don't, I hadn't really understood it, and you talked more about the glow.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: I just fell in love with the idea.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: So with that in mind, I thought it'd be fun for you to share about yours and your husband's glow together, but without telling us your types, just so we can like hear about it in a new, fresh way.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: I loved that question.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: I love how my husband brings me goodness.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: He really is a good listener and he's very caring, and he really loves to make sure that things are lined up with efficiency, and he makes me shine more uh logically and in a unified direction.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: And he was on my podcast this week and I said, You just really are logical, and it's good because I share the love of thinking, but I tend to take a lot of journeys around and a lot of stories and extrapolate and make a lot of qualifications, and so I bring a lot of life to what we're talking about or doing in whatever capacity and a lot of adventure in that way, and then he brings the through line.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: So that's how I would describe our pairing.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: The through line, beautifully said, that is really great.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, okay.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: I just I think it's so fun to think about that new dynamic we make.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: And I I think we tend to separate the Enneagram journey.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: And instead, it's a it is a community when it's good, right?
5:45
SPEAKER_00: We can invite others in to speak into how they experience us, what they see us, how they see us healthy, how they see us stressed in a loving way.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: But then the dynamic of our home, the dynamic of our marriage and our family, how that synergy together can impact our community, impact the the place, the geography literally that the Lord has us in, even.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know, by seeing it more of a unified thing of all of us together, which can be challenging.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the glow that you talk about, I was just rereading this book.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, I got my paper copy.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: I was so excited because we got the advanced one PDF, but girl knows I love me, the tangible book in my hand.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's so pretty.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: But of course I skipped two, my husband and I, you know.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: And I was rereading that and I was a little bit like, oh yeah, there's some hard things about her dive together.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: So it's, you know, it's the both and.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: So for you, what has been really helpful?
6:53
SPEAKER_00: Understanding that that darker side, the negative pull that sometimes your spouse could have on you, because there is some connecting lines as well.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: So I wonder if it's even more intense because of that, as opposed to how I experience our glow.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, with our types, I think with my husband being wanting to do good all the time, he wants to reach really far and he's moving all the time forward.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: So when I say that through line is great, but then you picture me as sort of like a tornado or a whirling dervish, we're moving far and fast together, but we're leaving a lot behind in the dust in these ideals.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: And so that's sort of the underbelly of our shadow, but somebody else's shadow might be like, we're just not doing anything, or we don't care enough, or you know, we're we're so activated that we can't stop, whatever it is.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: There's this beauty that comes from that light you cast together so uniquely.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: And it's even beyond Ennegram because we have these subtypes and variants, but then what at least we can say from our Enneagram types is what is the general light we cast?
7:59
SPEAKER_01: What's the good we do together?
8:01
SPEAKER_01: And you know, Wes and I do a lot of really good thinking and doing together.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: And where we have to really watch for is our own heart spaces and the heart spaces of our kids.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: So the Ennegram has been such a gift to be able to develop that.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: And also, like we're saying, just knowing our mission is so much bigger and brighter when we can stop to do that heart work, not just for the kids in our families, though.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I think we're sort of like caring people and Christians.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: So that's something we want to do.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: But then, um, not sort of, but we are, but then it comes into this space of what about each other?
8:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, what how can we be intentional?
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And we have to do that every single week.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: That's why I wanted to talk to you guys about that a little bit.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: I know we're going to get to that today because it's like we've had to do that for over 20 years of marriage because that was not natural for us.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: I that's why I've loved your work and what you've done.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: And again, a couple of years ago, really beginning to dive into your work for myself.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: The how you articulated and to be able to look at the pairing in that glow dynamic and just the language around it, I think it's very original, really captivating.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: And I think is um it gives us a fresh perspective.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: But realizing, oh, these stuck points for us, it makes so much more sense to read about it and read about how it impacts each other, not just us as an individual.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: And so I think this is where, man, so many people, this is not just another Enneagram book.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: This is an Enneagram book for your relationship that can help you really get out of those stuck places or just those things that you could easily maybe struggle, that's just us and that's just how we are, and that's their influence.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: I think it invites you to examine it from a different way that you don't have to stay there.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: And it is a starting point, right?
10:00
SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't need to be our stuck point.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: And I love reminding us, that's the whole purpose of the Enneagram.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: I love that you reminded us of that.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: And what's so interesting is it goes very well with Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs, which I talk a lot about too, that at the bottom rung, it is very practical.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, we could stay there if we want to in marriage and we would have more of a dull hue and do some basic level maintenance, but we wouldn't go to the top of the mountain very often, which is where the ideals are.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think that's why Wes and I came up with this concept because we are both idealists.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: So we always want to shoot for the top.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: And marriage research tells us that those who shoot for the top do a great job.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: And that's actually statistics that if you really try hard, you're gonna get a lot out of your marriage.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: But what those people, if you're one of those people like us, that you also need to remember is it takes a lot of oxygen to work up there at the top of the mountain because there's not much up there.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: So you have to put a lot of work in.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: And that's where this book comes in.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: If you want a good marriage, you got to put the work in.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the questions I wanted to ask you.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: You've been doing this work for so many years.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: You you do it, you do the work as a therapist and you have your local clients, and then you've got this online community that's very specific about using the Enneagram in your marriage.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: What prompted the book?
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Because I know you have gobs of resources, fantastic podcasts.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: You can get a download on each type, uh, type pairing.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: But what was the book specifically for you?
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Why, um, why now?
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And and what was just kind of the dream behind it?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it comes from a broken-hearted moment, but sometimes it's just been because of a lot of years, or maybe even helping a lot of broken hearts.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a little both of those things.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: It was that I needed a one-stop shop for people so that when I couldn't take a coaching client, I could give them a really good resource.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: It was because, as you said, I had some concepts that I was realizing on a very active level, practically speaking, that needed a mechanism to be shared.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: And I knew that if that, you know, who's gonna come to my website and pull off my PDF?
12:13
SPEAKER_01: Now there are people who obviously do thousands, but in yours too.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: But how many more could be reached if we're on at Christianbook.com or Amazon with this?
12:23
SPEAKER_01: And so with my other books that I've written, they're just systems I created for my clients that I would use and still do use occasionally.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm more using the Ennegram, but I love family systems work.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: I love marriage research in general.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: But once I got a hold of the nuances of the Enneagram, I said, this needs to be brought into a book.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: And also, lastly, knowing that I have that thinking and doing so much, I also paired up with an editor who was a heart space four very intentionally, because I knew that she would help me to do the slower work in um, especially as a four.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: We know fours take their time of really digging for the emotions because all my other books are not personal.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so sometimes my podcasts are, but this book has healthy stories to share, stories that I've worked through things, also stories of clients, of course, compilations.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: And it really is different because we do the general, we do the general Enneagram, but we also build life-giving examples so that people can even see my heart, which is always hard for me to show.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think you do a beautiful job of that because you're the one-to-one subtype, right?
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes, social maybe first, but the one-to-one is a little bit like way high.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, it is.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: You're great at that.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: And that's a you're a little higher with that than me.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: So it was also a way to connect my heart into the work, which of course we know work is better when we're centered.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I Krista, that is so fascinating.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: I know I talked to Tyler Zach, um, boy, maybe it's a couple years ago, and I was working on Should Christians use the Enneagram, which for me, it wasn't an opus, but it my heart definitely was there.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: But I did find that it was challenging to have different people edit it or trying to figure out who needed to edit it and speak into it.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: So the fact that you invited a four, uh, hands down, that makes so much sense because the fours in my life draw out emotions.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: I believe that I am more in touch with my emotions and went through these last several years as, I don't know, as healthfully as possible because thanks in large part to them, obviously leading me to the the spirit's work in me and the father's love, but them being willing to sit with me or and like you said, kind of draw out the deep stories, draw out the explanations, even because I struggle with the rapid fire.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm used to succinct and short and get to the point and all of that, because that's how we work and it's fast.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking of your mountain climbing story in the book, and you know, like I just all of those things, but we need that not only the slow work in ourselves, but to invite people to not just take them to the end of like, hey, this is where you want to be, but here is the path through.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: And as a seven, listeners know that that's not easy because we're the farthest from the heart space naturally.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: So she didn't do the stories for me by any means.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: What happened was I said, I want someone who's safe to sit with my stories.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Cause of course, as sevens, we want everyone to be happy.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So if I'm gonna bring a story to somebody who's gonna be my editor, I need them to be safe with it.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: So she was safe, and that's why I chose Baker because she was the editor and it was really, I'm grateful because as you're saying, you got to read my heart in this book for couples instead of just like, hey, here's my quick tip.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: So yes.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, which to that point, we're gonna get to those tips because we wanted to talk about intimacy building tips for each of our wonderfully busy types and focusing.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: We obviously we're not gonna give all the pairings because there's 45 of them.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Not doing that, get the book, um, use the guide sheets on her website, listen to her podcast, it's all there.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to really talk to the fellow entrepreneur, the busy business leader, the coach, the multi-passionate woman who is juggling so many things because we are really good about investing in ourselves when it comes to business growth.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: And we listen to the podcasts, we read the books, we watch the summits and the YouTube videos, but a lot of times the marriage, and maybe even parenting tends to get put above it.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: It's sometimes hard to want to or or give room for working on our marriage.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: So why do we struggle with that so much, especially this demographic?
16:57
SPEAKER_01: I think that we are moving at a faster pace than ever before, and it's got some good parts to it.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: The 1950s America was not or the world was not at all a perfect world.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: I hate that it's painted as that.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: I've even fallen into that thinking that at times.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: Um certainly has.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, when I met him, he was like 100% like in the 50s, and he admits to it.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Um that's hilarious.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you aware?
17:25
SPEAKER_01: You saw that in our book.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: So um, but what we have come to learn in marriage research research was that that was just a blip on the screen of life.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Like before that, there was agrarian families who were serving and working together fluidly on projects and really finding their glow and their mission.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was not at the top of the mountain, more at the pragmatic level, because it was more survival-based.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: But once we started working in these high machine sorts of levels, um, which I, my favorite author, Tolkien, hated the machines of life.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: He knew these machinations would come.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, so he dreaded that and would only ride a bike.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, most of us, including myself, we've fully embraced it hard as it is.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing is we've allowed the machine to take us over.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: So even I was telling a client yesterday, a teen, just putting the phone in another room because of low attention span, that can draw us closer together.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: We're busy entrepreneurs, we want to be there.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: We're also empathic women, you named that, the nurturing, the desire to please and help, very God-given.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I would also say that sometimes it's fear of like, what if I don't make enough money for my family?
18:33
SPEAKER_01: And so something that's been really helpful for us is to figure out how we can just feel good about that, even through the fluctuations, so that I can still be a present mother and wife and self-care, getting that.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's an important conversation, even if it means scaling back on things, to be able to say, let me look at my tech use, let me look at my boundaries, and let me look at fear around resourcing so that I can find a life that is sustainable and won't keep my cortisol levels up and won't keep our relationship window of tolerance at a very exhausted level.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: That's such a good point because when we are spread so thin, we have less grace for our partner who is likely to have those issues or those things they do that can annoy us.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: That we can, if we have the grace, if we have the margin, we can look over it.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: But when we're spread so thin, it tends to trigger us a little bit more.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: You get it.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: I think it's something we know innately, but we often just don't prioritize.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: And to your point, I think having those, it's not a conversation of listen, we need to work on our marriage and we need to read this book and we need to do this thing.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's more to your point, what is the thing that is stressing you out that is limiting the margin that you need to have to be authentically you and be able to give more of yourself?
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Emotional bandwidth, um, physical time, right?
20:11
SPEAKER_00: What is limiting the dates or the conversations?
20:15
SPEAKER_00: So I I love that you went so practical.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: I think it is really important.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, invite your spouse to read the book with you and to listen to the podcast and be curious and and maybe ask open-ended questions that help open the door to maybe some deeper things, but ultimately, what is the thing that is creating the striving for you?
20:40
SPEAKER_00: And I I love how you referred to ideals before because I think sometimes we in line with all of that, we have taken on the world's ideals and we're living under the pressure of matching that instead of what the Lord has invited us to, and and working together with him.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: And he wants us to grow, he wants us to fall more in love with him, be more like his son, Jesus here, you know, when he walked on earth and all of those things, but not at the expense of our sanity and in a way to create weariness and a burdensome load that detracts us from one of our number one calls, which is our marriage and our kids.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: So oh my gosh, you're right.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: It's a really good way of saying it that we fall into the world's patterns of thinking we can do it all, and we just can't.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: So, spouses, uh, you know, calling each other to bettermen is a great gift.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: And to be humble enough to say, I need the help, I need the accountability, I am falling into the world's patterns.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: That's something that I try to do.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: It's a bumpy road, but that's I'm with all of the listeners doing that work with you.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: All right.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: With that, we love our tips, we love our takeaways.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Where are you going to start us today as we go through the rounds of all nine types?
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Let's start with nines today, if that's okay.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's do it.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: I heard from a nine recently who said I would love to be started with.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm at the end of the alphabet.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you are.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, oh, so let's start with just nines but all couples.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: I recommend six hours a week of quality time, just the two of you, along with an hour's time of maintenance and coupon conversations through the week.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: So you might say on Sundays or on Tuesday nights, whatever it is, we kind of go through our schedule who's driving who.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: And some of it's going to be, you know, Amy and I know a teens.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Some of it's changing every day, but finding some general rhythms takes a good hour of a calendar.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: And we've had conversations before.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: I have an Enneagram and marriage planner if you need something even tangible to do that with.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: But also just sitting together for an hour to just do that over a cup of coffee, to look at your calendars to match them up, to say, not only let's do this, but let's make those six hours happen this week.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: When is that going to happen?
23:04
SPEAKER_01: And so piecing that together is sort of an agreed upon amount of hours that most marriage researchers would say.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: So let's keep that in mind that if you don't put time in, it's going to be really hard to get time out to get enjoyment together because you're just not together.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: And so I encourage couples who are traveling a lot and not able to do that to just lean into what you can do and to make it a priority, even if it's phone dates and Zoom dates, like absolutely got to prioritize each other.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, also vacation special celebrations.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: We learn that sort of, you know, we've been married over 20 years now.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And at about 15 or 12, we we really started to have to shift to see we have to care for each other with some getaways too.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: And I know you guys do that too, right?
23:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was about the time where we're, you know, it was like the luxury because of finances, because we didn't have necessarily support systems to care for the kids, but we turned that corner, we're like, oh no, we have to go get that big gulp of air and that refreshment together to play, have fun.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: And it can last, you know, even just one a year, a long weekend can go really, really far.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's joyful to hear, just for people to not feel like, oh, Amy and Krista can do it.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: I can't.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: No, find something small, even if it's like an all-day once that you trade with your friends, because I realize you've got to do you.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, but let's start with the nines that we can remind our nines to wake up with their body work before the date.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Because if you come into the date without much awareness, you're not able to be a present listener because you've got so much of your justice orientation that feels offended and upset.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: And so we want you to be able to have fun on this date too, and in the romantic space with your spouse.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: And for nines, because you're often feeling like I'm gonna go last, and I'm thinking of everyone else, just activating it's simple but true in the body space, even if it's like a really nice walk around the block, that is awesome for you.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: And it could even be a massager, like my nine got me a massager that's just you plug it in and you take a little while with it, and you could have a relaxing time watching your favorite show.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: Do something to decompress in the body space, um, not in a way where you're just tuned out, but where you're really activating that body.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: So you see the difference of just watching the show versus body work while watching, or something my nine often does.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know your husband does is a nine and does physical job, um, is she often does a show with her workout.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: So just be aware you can pair your comfort with this body work.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: So that's what I would say.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Then you're in that romantic center because you're you're present, your magnetism shows up.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: You get that.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: 100%, Krista.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: I would say yes, this is very, very true.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Tested and proven.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh good.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, for eight, something that I want to help you to understand about romance is that when you are a good listener and really empathic, it opens up the door to your partner's heart space versus you leading and showing them around and pulling them, uh, which once in a while they probably love, but ultimately just being heard and noticed by you.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: You're such a wonderful leader and they're so impressed by you.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: And so uh that's great on a resume, but what we want is the heart to connect romantically.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: So that's a great reminder for you is to just tune in.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I hear from friends and clients that their eight will tune in and listen, but because they're a direct type, there's not much empathy or stopping point.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: It's sort of like, okay, and then moving on.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the eight is even thinking, and they've shared this with me.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, I've got it a lot harder.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: But what we have to relate with as eights is I can't be inside of anyone else.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna pause, listen, and attune, and that will help a lot for romance because now your partner feels so good and safe with you.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes, agreed.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: So many eight relationships.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking through this.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes, this is gonna be so helpful.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, good.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: And of course, Amy, our type sevens you can chime in on is a little bit harder because we have uh, you know, uh thinking type and a body type on other side, and we don't connect easily with our arrows to the heart space.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: So romance for us looks like us usually approaching our emotions first.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: And because this is a Christian podcast, I feel at liberty to say taking some time to steal away with God in almost an ascetic way, where, you know, um some people say ascetic, but just a way, as you know, with your daily office with God to pour your heart out to Him.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: It's a very safe place.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Another way we can do that is we can attune with other heart types around us before our date with our spouse so that we can be invited into the heart space by then, and then we open up to a romantic space.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, the dates can still be fun.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: And that's okay too.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: If you're like, you know what, I'm a seven, I don't have time for the heart space today, but I do have time to go jogging and we're gonna then have a picnic.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know what?
28:30
SPEAKER_01: That's fun, and you might even get lucky at the end of the night with your spouse.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you want to delve deep, like I said, spend some time with God, really pouring out your heart and or with a friend who can help attune you to your heart space versus the head.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, really important because if we go that way, we go logic.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: I am guilty of sharing all the different ideas and plans.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: And I tend to want feedback in that moment to help sort through them.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: And but I haven't done the sorting through myself.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: And by going and giving time to my heart space of going, what do I want?
29:08
SPEAKER_00: What do I even need from this?
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times it's coming in with some sort of expectation that I don't articulate because I don't even know myself.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: So getting clear on that helps our time together so much better because then I directly ask instead of hoping he'll figure it out.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: And I don't even know.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: And then him as a nine, he can say, now I'm more alert to even sharing yes or no about what you say so that you can find your way together.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so funny.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh well, I love that.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna borrow that one.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Please do, please do.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: I will because I was doing that yesterday on my birthday.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's like, What do you want to do?
29:48
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, What do you want to do?
29:50
SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't take time to do that.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: So I like that.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: Every year, I'm like, Amy.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Learn already.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: We gotta, we gotta get this figured out ahead of time.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: We've got all year.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and my son, who's a six, we're talking about sixes now.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: He was the worst one because he was like, What want the plans, mom?
30:10
SPEAKER_01: He was so funny.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: He's like, I'm gonna, he goes, I guess I'll skip youth group for you, but I wonder if they'll let me have a donut.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just laughing like little boys in middle school.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, you're so silly.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: My daughters were like, No, you can't do that.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, I still can relate.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Like we sevens do.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: And sixes need the reminder that although feeling reactive and like you're well planned needs to come first, it really doesn't because you are really gifted with planning, even a bit on the fly.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: So holding your plans loosely, holding your plans, like we all need this, but like specifically, you to just hold up holy hands to God and say, like, here's my general, like very, very light and general idea for romance and help me to just walk into what is.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: And there's one of my favorite lines from Lord of the Rings are like, What is it that you want?
31:03
SPEAKER_01: And this uh wise woman says, I want that what will be will be.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's really cool for sixes to say and to invite their spouses into this very unusual space for them.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: And there's a bit of adventure there, and it's a bit of a wild card, which we know our sixes love anyway.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: So just to invite you into that space will bring a lot more thrill and romance when you say to your spouse, like, I don't know, let's see what what are we gonna do tonight and allow yourselves to just flow versus plan everything, especially lean into your spouse's ideas too, which is often quite hard for a six.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: So good.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: You've got it.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, our fives are really good at planning as well, they're another head type, as you know.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: And so on a date with a five, it's really important that they, if you're a five listening, talk to somebody who can be an accountability partner for you before you uh enter your week's domain because fives really do appreciate time to plan for emotions.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: And so when I think about romance for them, it does, you know, they're not the six that's gonna be reactive.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: They're more just like, I need to bargain for some energy with myself.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: And if I'm gonna be emotional, I need to know that in advance.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: And so there's a different level of energy whereas sixes have very high energy.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: Fives are pulling from shards, and so they need to be able to really plan for it a week ahead if possible and say, I know that on Friday I'm gonna save enough energy for our date.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: And I'm also gonna be trying this tactic out where I maybe use my feelings wheel and I allow myself to share my heart.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, they're gonna have to plan it a bit.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we want you to be expansive and to just take a nice deep breath and just try it out.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: But I also just want to invite spouses and fives themselves into some healthy planning so that you have the energy to actually go there and talk out um ways you love your partner with your heart so they feel your presence.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: So they don't just feel like you're having this esoteric intellectual conversation that they're on a date with a head on a stick, but that you're like, no, I'm here, I'm ready for this.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: I think for the five to plan ahead is challenging, right?
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Good at making plans, but future asking them in a week, especially if they're in a place of depletion, their automatic answer can just be a quick no, instead of going, now, wait a minute, let me thoughtfully think in a week I won't be this depleted if I plan and prepare.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: And so being able to invite yourself out of that moment, that present moment, past moment experience to future and being willing to say yes, knowing that you can plan and prepare accordingly.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: So important.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: You brought up a really good point for them.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: That's thank you for just saying they need to and just echoing that they need the planning sometimes, but you're making me remember if you're a five, you've got to really make the bargain with yourself too, to not get stuck in your context switching that day so that your brain doesn't take all your energy so that you can leave some.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: So that's that's we're all working together, we're all learning.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, now if you're a four, we're back to this idealist who wants the top of the mountain experience.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: Yet what I'm going to caution you for is putting in to get that back because fours love to be indulged and um really just they love to be the person to captivate.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: And so they're hoping their partner will be very romantic on the date.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: And so I just want to remind fours that you've got to put in some of that too, because you might do that very well as a four in your ranking system at work and with friendships.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: But after you hit past, I'm talking past five years of marriage.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: So if you're in the middle of the honeymoon phase, you might not relate to this, but um, when you get there, you will where you're like, oh, but my spouse sort of just gets whatever.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: They get the real me, they get the tired me and the exhausted and tenacious four, who kind of just is the servant of the world with their art.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: So I want you to bring that artist to the marriage, and I promise you it will be refreshing, but you have to bring something to it.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: You can't just come in expecting.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, good word.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Spot on.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: We all need that when we're in our four space.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: And remember, we can kind of hop around ourselves too.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: So take the advice that Amy and I share for whatever space you're in, right?
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: So threes, I just want to remind you that on the date, as much as uh you want romance of various kinds, we know you're the most romantic out there in many ways, being the middle heart type.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, just make sure that you are not in the space of just trying to impress or um especially impress people around, which can happen sometimes with a three, is I need to have the arm candy.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: I've had threes tell me that, or their spouses say, you know, they're just so busy whining and dining the group that they forgot to include me.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: So make sure you're really present with your partner's heart.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: Like I said to the eight, you know, staying with them and really hearing them, listening, attuning, um, being vulnerable yourself to not feel like you have to dazzle, but just, you know, saying, hey, let's just have a casual night where I don't have to be the center, you know, let's hear about what you're doing, but not just on a business level.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: Let's hear about how you're doing in your heart.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: And then just be aware with me.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: We all have to take this on faith that when we do a little bit of heart work together and a tuning, there will be uh a cleansing and then we'll be able to come back and have fun and passion and romance too.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: So you've got to trust the process.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: That means letting go.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think lots of deep breaths as you're dysregulating as you let go.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: With threes, there's a lot of like white knuckling it to put the phone down.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: And so, like I said earlier, in general, put the phone in another room that'll help already with scientific reminders that that actually does bring back your attention more.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: And just taking those deep breaths, putting the phone in the other room will help you on your way.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: The word multitasking comes to mind in my experience of threes.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: There, the the desire for stimulus is is almost a little bit like a seven, but I think for a three, it feels like the the drive for efficiency, you tend to pair dates with, like you said, maybe it's a group function or it's a spectacular event or it's about impressing.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: And and the imitation, even though it would be a challenge, this is gonna be stretching, but a three, not only to have the phone away, but to maybe have an environment that is simplistic and there's no TVs around the restaurant, and you have to look in your spouse's eyes and take time for them to respond because you likely married someone who's gonna be slower with their response.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: And so tough.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't say that thinking it's easy, and it would take some intentional work to get there, but beauty that would come from you being willing to do that.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: It would be so good.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: It's such a romantic peering when you do that.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: My sister's a three, and she has such romance because she does do that, and they'll have hot tub dates.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: A lot of threes like their hot tub dates because you put the phone away.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: There we go.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's what I'm talking about.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: So we'll do two and ones real quick.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: Twos are really good at, you know, loving and attuning, but they can hide their feelings.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: And so I would just remind you that your spouse needs to see the real you, even if briefly that brings pain.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking of the verse that was yesterday's verse of the day, the weeping may last for the night, joy comes in the morning.
38:48
SPEAKER_01: So remember that you do have to feel some feelings to of your own.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: And that's gonna require that you take a little time of solitude with God, just like I said to Sevens, attune with your feelings, share what needs to be shared with your spouse, but also accept them with the giving they give.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: And you can get more bang for your buck as a two with romance when you look backwards and you see what your spouse has already done for you.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: It is the best gift for a two.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: They're good at it when they get going on that.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: They're like, ooh, yeah, I'm saving this boxer message, or I'm sharing pictures from our really special date we had last week, but I'm gonna curate them before I share them on my Instagram with a song.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: And there's all these flavors you can add in when you're able to do your work and also see the ways your spouse loves you, even if it's different than your helping ways.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then for the ones, I would just quickly add that because ones tend towards seeing the error everywhere, I would really encourage them, again, like I said, to nines to do the body work before the date so that they are able to digest some of that uh intensity and bring into the lightness of that seven space.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: We know ones are so good at on the date when they're not stressed and strained.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: If you're the partner of the one, you can try to bring in some lightness and joy to them either way, even if they don't feel like they deserve or have earned their body work because they really do need some of that lightness to get into the romance.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: They just won't be able to do it without a bit of lightness, whether it comes through a workout or through funny stuff.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: So try not to bring anything heavy to them.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: They already have a lot of heaviness.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: This will help them to then land thirdly from body to mind, uh, and the laughter in their minds and the release in their minds to a fun, beautiful connecting.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: They're quite good at connecting in the heart space together.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: And I know that because that's what my hobby is.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Amy, for letting me walk with you through all these types.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: And my the one word that pops my mind for both the one and two is to receive.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: I think it's really challenging.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: And that idea, that concept, so good about going back to remember all the ways you have been given, right?
40:55
SPEAKER_00: But to receive those moments because probably in the in the moment it was hard to accept it or receive it.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: But by going back, you can remember afresh.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's it's less challenging to receive.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's what they did for me.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: That's how they blessed me and helped me.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: So gosh, Krista, so much good stuff.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: I know there is so much in your book.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just chop full.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: I I know you you wrote it for every married couple out there, whether they're, you know, feeling like they've been shipwrecked and they're stuck on their maroon to the island and they are not sure if they're gonna get off, to those who are like sailing blissfully, like there's something for everyone.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: But is there any last words of wisdom or encouragement you'd love to give everyone and and disconnection with your book?
41:43
SPEAKER_01: I would say to embrace the everyday together because I'm thinking whimsically of how there's beauty in every season.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: And yesterday my family and I we played a game at dinner where we um took each of our birthday months and we said five things, because there's five of us, that we each liked one thing from that month.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: And we found easily five things from each of our five birthday months that we loved.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: And afterwards I said, isn't that like Emily in our town?
42:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh, everyone's probably familiar with this famous line, or if not, uh, she has this famous brief soliloquy where she goes through like, oh, isn't life wonderful?
42:19
SPEAKER_01: And she's looking from the afterlife back and wishing she could still embrace.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: And I would just say, embrace the everyday.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: And how we all do that is we regulate ourselves with deep breaths, with little rests, closing our eyes for a few minutes, and then we can get a little quieter and slower, like we both said, with these machinations and come back to this uh peaceful state that you and your hubby are so good at bringing to us.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: So we just love you, Amy, too, for having that nine vibe over your podcast and your seven joy.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that's what I would say is just slow down and appreciate the moments together.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: They're very precious.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: I know if they were gone tomorrow, we would be brokenhearted.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: And so we got to hold on for what is today.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: So, Krista, thank you for your work.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for just the faithfulness of that and sharing it with us.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so excited for my friends to get your book.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast with you as always.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, wasn't that so insightful?
43:23
SPEAKER_00: I love it when our conversations get specific for each personality and also provide something actionable.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: I imagine you may have thought of a friend or two who might appreciate this conversation and the tips for each type.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: I'd love for you to share this episode with them and then maybe even pass it along to your spouse, wink wink, and tell them there's a specific intimacy building tip for them.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: I bet that will get their attention.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Now remember, Give It Chris's new book, The Enneagram in Marriage, Your Guide to Thriving Together and Your Unique Pairing.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: And you can get it at your local bookstore, or if you need it right away, click the link in our show note and you can get the Kindle version.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: Now, also maybe you listen to this and you go, I might need more help than a book can offer right now.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: I want to remind you that there's nothing wrong with one therapy, but two, coaching.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there are coaches for marriage.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: In fact, one of my wholehearted coaches, Deanna Sudom, she loves working with married couples.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: She and her husband both do a lot of marriage ministry work in their church, local church in Saskatchewan, Canada, but she also loves working with couples online.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: So if you think you need a little bit more support and a guide by the side, maybe for you individually, and then maybe eventually you and your spouse or however you are most ready for it, I know Deanna would love to help you and give you some more information.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: You can easily book a totally complimentary discovery call through her, get on her calendar, and maybe ask the questions in real time and see if this is the next possible step for you.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: Next week, another great friend of the podcast is back for a chat, all about motherhood.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Allie Worthington has been a guest on the podcast since about 2018, actually, right around the first anniversary of the podcast.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: And I love how you can always count on her for depth and wisdom in our conversations.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: It's truly so good, and I can't wait to share it with you.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: All right, until next time, friend, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply wholehearted life.