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Burning Image: Bakersfield Deathrock Since 1983 · San Joaquin Sound

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You're listening to the San Joaquin Sound Podcast,
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a podcast about music in Bakersfield and the
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surrounding San Joaquin Valley. I'm your host,
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AJ Rodriguez, and today I'll be interviewing
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Moe Adame of the band Burning Image. Can you tell
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me a little bit about Burning Image? At the time
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in Bakersfield, there was really nothing like
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it. The punk scene started here in town, but
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we were so influenced by some of the darker themed
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bands. It's just kind of one of those situations
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where we wanted to do something like that as
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well. And I think Bakersfield needed something
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like that. Coming out with the 45, the final
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conflict, Burning Image Burning, that was a big
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highlight because that's what enabled us to play
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a show with the Dead Kennedys. Just getting to
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play with the bands that we admired at the time,
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whether it be 45 Grave or Specimen or any of
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those bands. It's just that 45 was a huge, a
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huge thing for us. Let's go back to before your
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success with Burning Image. When did you start
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playing guitar? That was my brother's fault.
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He played guitar. And whenever he left the house,
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I'd go into his room and I'd... I'd pick up his
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guitar and just play it. And he finally realized,
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you know what? You play this guitar more than
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I do. So he gave me the guitar. At that time,
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I was listening to bands like Kiss and Cheap
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Trick and a lot of the bands from the 70s, late
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70s. I started a band called Tyrant. That was
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my first band, 1980, yeah. And that was mainly,
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played a lot of Cheap Trick, a lot of Blue Isher
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Cult. And eventually, I started writing originals.
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And that band had a band member who eventually
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would also be a part of Burning Image. That's
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what we did. We just played covers until we came
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up with a batch of our own tunes. And after that,
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it was the Pictures. That was another kind of
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cover band, but more towards the punk sound.
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And that's when we were discovering bands like
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Wall of Voodoo and The Kramps and 45 Grave and
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Kristen Death. That was just steering us more
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in that direction. But Tyrant, that was my first
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band. What venues in town would Tyrant play at?
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There weren't very many venues here to play.
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There was a place we'd play called Tomorrow's
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World. It was an arcade, and they had a separate
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room where they had Battle of the Bands. That
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was on Chester Avenue. We'd play the occasional
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pizza place, but there really weren't very many
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venues to play. You mentioned the early punk
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scene in Bakersfield. I know some of the first
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punk bands in 1979, 1980, 1981 were Teen Suicide,
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The Lizards, that's Lizards with an E, and The
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Terrorists. Did you ever go to any of those shows?
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I went to a show. It was Teen Suicide at a place
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called Varese downtown. It used to be by the
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Nile Theater. And that was one of those... One
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of those moments, man, where I was watching this
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and I said, I need to do this. I don't want to
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play that old rock anymore, man. And it was a
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guy named Scott Sturdivant who was in that band.
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It was one of the many life -changing moments.
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He became Slim the Drifter, right? Another Bakersfield
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music legend. He sure did, yeah. But it was one
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of those moments where I just said, okay. I don't
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want to do that anymore. I want to play this.
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I want to play this style. You mentioned after
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Tyrant, the band you were in was called The Pictures.
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I found a zine called Flipside in issue 41 in
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1983. Joe Sparks wrote in, and he had this to
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say. Two things. I am the guitar player for The
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Pictures. The only way to describe us is to list
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our major influences. Killing joke. The Cure,
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The Clash, X, Rudimentary Peni, The Cramps, Batcave
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Stuff, and especially Wall of Voodoo and Social
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Distortion. Put the about in a blender and add
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equal part of originality, and you have our sound.
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We can draw a crowd of about 850 in Bakersfield,
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and we have a strong devoted following of about
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200 people. We have just finished recording five
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of our songs, and we're now trying to raise money
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to record eight more. I'm telling you this in
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the hopes of spreading news of our band. We're
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willing to play almost anywhere. Number two,
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my underground music and art mag called Surfacing
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Underground. The most bizarre art and junk get
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into this mag. We could use info about scenes,
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bands, flyers, art, etc. Send anything you might
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like us to print. Bakersfield is starting to
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come around now. A big scene is slowly but surely
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forming. Send bands here. Joe Sparks and Alyssa's
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phone number and address. Can you tell me about
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that scene that was growing that Joe Sparks talks
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about? The cool thing about Bakersfield at the
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time, there was burning image. You had a primer
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gray that was just straight up punk. There were
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so many bands. You had Big Jed and the Flatbeds.
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The whole scene was cool because you had ska,
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you had death rock, you had punk. And the shows,
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when we play a show, all those crowds would come.
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It wasn't just death rock. It was everybody.
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And that was the cool thing about the scene at
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the time. It was really united, really cool.
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We all went to the ska shows. We went to the
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rockabilly shows, whatever. It didn't matter.
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So you, Mo Adami, and Tony Bonanno are in the
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pictures, but how did you meet Joe Sparks and
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Paul Birch to form Burning Image? Well, Joe played
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with a band, a band called The Agents. The pictures
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in The Agents would play, usually we were billed
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together for some reason, and we used to play
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at Rollertown. Rollertown, that was over by Valley
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Plaza, the Valley Plaza Mall, and all the bands
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played there, the Slammers. You know, a lot of
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the more of the new wave kind of bands and stuff.
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So the Pictures, Pictures and the Agents played
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a lot together. And so we got to know each other.
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And Joe, Joe and Paul, they went to another band
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called Public Art. Public Art. Yeah. Yeah. And
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Tony and I went to a party they were playing
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at. We were in dire need of a drummer. So we
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went to this party and we saw Paul and we said,
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hey, we need you, man. We need you. to play for
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Burning Image, or actually at the time it was
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The Pictures. But it was kind of like, you know,
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you want me, you got to have Joe too. And we're
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like, that's cool because we like Joe. You know,
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I've known Joe forever. It's all good. We got
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together and started playing as The Pictures.
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Really started in on the original music. But
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the more we wrote, kind of the darker the themes
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got. So the pictures, the name, the pictures
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just didn't didn't gel anymore. It just didn't
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sound right. One night at rehearsal, we decided
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Burning Image was the new name. That's how that
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happened. Once you have all the members together
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and you change your name to Burning Image, then
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what happened? As I said, you know, we really
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seriously got into writing originals. Yeah. And
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our goal was to put something out, some vinyl
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out. And that's when we put out the 45, Final
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Conflict. One of the situations is Joe. Joe went
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up to the Bay Area, to Berkeley, as a matter
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of fact, to one of the stations. I can't remember
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the name of the station, but he was pushing the
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whole, the 45. And it was on a show called Maximum
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Rock and Roll, which was started by a guy named
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Tim Yohannan. So they're playing the Final Conflict.
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And in the next studio over, Jello Biafra was
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in the adjoining studio. Singer of the Dead Kennedys,
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if anyone doesn't know. Yes. And he heard what
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was playing and he came into the studio and wanted
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to know who's his band. So he found out and that's
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where we got an invitation to play with them,
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Butthole Surfers and M .I .A. at The Stone in
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San Francisco. You know, that was the big goal
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is let's put on some vinyl. put something out
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so people can hear what we're all about. Nice.
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And the other thing we did was we were on a compilation
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called Let's Die that was on Mystic Records.
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That was great too. That put us out in front
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of a lot of people as well. That's awesome. Yeah.
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So let's talk about that 45. If I'm correct,
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you wrote one of the songs and Joe Sparks wrote
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the other song? Right. I wrote The Final Conflict
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and Joe wrote Burning Image Burning. So how did
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the songwriting go? How did you write that song?
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Final Conflict, if you don't know about Burning
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Image, Final Conflict is pretty much your signature
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song. That's a song, when I think of the band,
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I think of that song. Right. The climate at the
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time, the political climate at the time, it was
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not good. Those times, there was a lot to write
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about, man. You've got Reagan's in office. You've
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got a lot of threats of nuclear annihilation,
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right? Did that inform that feeling of the final
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conflict? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So like
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I said, the topic was, that was easy. That was
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easy to pick from and to write about. Whereas
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Burning Image Burning was more about persecution.
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Yeah. You know, and I didn't write the song,
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so I don't really, I don't really know the, what?
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motivated him to write that but it's a great
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song yeah it's a great song a lot of death rock
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has themes of religious protest and in burning
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image burning it definitely references burning
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heretics and persecution like you said how did
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people in bakersfield react to that type of music
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oh wow uh well we we had religious groups pick
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at our shows because they i don't know how or
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how they came about, but they would look at the
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cover and they thought we were devil worshippers.
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So they would pick at our shows. That didn't
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stop the crowd from coming in. The cover art
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is amazing, by the way, and isn't it made by
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the same guy who drew the cover for one of Social
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Distortion's albums? Yeah, that was drawn by
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Art Morales. He did Mommy's Little Monster. He
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did that cover. At the time, also, There was
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a thing called the satanic panic in the United
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States, especially in California. There were
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incidences here and in L .A. that were happening
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that blew up the whole satanic panic. So as I
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said before, they looked at the cover and they
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thought we're devil worshippers without reading
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the lyrics or even knowing anything about us.
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That kind of fueled the fire of what we were
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doing at the time. Did it give you any notoriety
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as well? Did any of that controversy backfire
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like sometimes it does? No, no. As I said, this
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didn't stop the crowds from coming to the shows.
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So I guess it helped us out. We really didn't
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care if you wanted to pick it, that's fine. It
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doesn't matter. We're still playing the show.
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Yeah. And it's interesting that they would think
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that the cover's satanic because if you look
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at it, it's an image of a king on a throne that's
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burning small effigies of something. So it seems
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to me that it's criticizing people in power.
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Well, you know, that's the thing about burning
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images that a lot of people didn't really quite
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grasp is that, you know, it wasn't this... Obviously,
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there was no satanic imagery. We did songs about
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the downtrodden. We did songs about the misfits
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and the neglected. And of course, the religious
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thing. Yeah. And the political climate. That's
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really what it was all about. That's what they
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misunderstood about Burning Image. And that's
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why this whole knee -jerk reaction about Burning
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Image being satanic is... That was ridiculous
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at the time. But I also want to point out that,
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of course, in a death rock band, you tend to
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be a little bit more theatrical and dress up
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and do this. So that didn't help her situation.
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They looked at us and they thought, oh, my goodness,
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what are these guys all about? So it just kind
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of moved things along because they looked at
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us and didn't know what to make of us. So if
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you don't know, Burning Image dressed very differently
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than anyone was dressing in the 80s, especially
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in Bakersfield. If you look at pictures, you
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can see they're wearing makeup, lipstick. They
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have eyeliner. It's very much similar to a goth
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look. Oh, yeah. And people didn't dress like
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that. No. When I was in high school, You could
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go to the mall and go to Hot Topic and you could
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get goth, emo scene fashion, you know. But back
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then, that wasn't the case, you know. You definitely
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had a different look and style that was so unique.
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And, you know, we didn't just dress like that
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for the shows. Yeah. That was everyday dress,
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man. Yeah. So, you know, the traipse around Bakersfield
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like that, you know, it was risky. That's for
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sure. It was a risky move, but hey, that's what
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we were doing, and we felt like that's how we
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wanted to present ourselves. Yeah, you're expressing
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yourself. Sure. That's cool. Yeah, but it was
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a risk. Did you ever face violence because of
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how you look differently? Many, many, many times,
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yeah. Wow. Yeah, because they really didn't know
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how to react, and the locals, they didn't know
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how to react. That's what they resorted to was
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violence, unfortunately. So let's talk about
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Death Rock. Death Rock comes from L .A. When
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people talk about Death Rock, they talk about
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the early L .A. Death Rock scene. But your band
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existed at the same time. And did you ever come
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across or go to shows in L .A.? Oh, yeah. Yeah,
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we became pretty good friends with the members
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of Christian Death. and 45 grave and we would
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go to la to go see shows it was it the scene
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was not it was not a huge scene yeah you know
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even though it was in la it was not that big
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a scene you know because uh death rock it kind
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of morphed out of the punk scene there yeah you
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know and uh at the time this is early 80s it
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was still forming it was still trying to you
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know grab a hold of something here. So the death
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rock scene wasn't that big. And you had 45 Grave,
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Chris and Death, Community FK, Dead Hippie, Red
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Wing, stuff like that, bands like that, Flesh
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Eaters. So you kind of tended to gravitate towards
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each other. Their scene rubbed off on us because
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we wanted to try something different. Yeah. Punk
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music has an anti -authoritarian edge that's
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very much a political protest. And so, like you
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said, a lot of death rock comes from that punk
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sound and post -punk. And so it's natural that
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it would also critique structures like religion
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and negative things about society and the world.
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That ethos of punk is very much part of it, right?
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Right. As I mentioned earlier, you know, it's
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the themes, a lot of the Burning Image themes,
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as well as a lot of the bands that we were listening
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to at the time. It was the same thing, man. We're
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outsiders. We're outsiders within the music scene
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itself. We borrowed from the punk ethos. We borrowed
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from the whole macabre imagery because that's
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how everybody felt. You know, we felt... Doomy
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and gloomy, but with a punk edge. Death Rock
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has such more of an aggressive edge than some
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of the other goth genres. Well, you know, at
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the time, you know, you had bands like Bauhaus.
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Yeah. Who were, I wouldn't even consider them
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goth. It was just kind of one of those things
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where it's just they combined all these images
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of the macabre and silent movies and... And just
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macabre art. And they rolled it all into one
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thing. Yeah. And borrowing heavily from Bowie.
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So, like I said, I really don't even consider
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them or Suzy and the Banshees or any bands like
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that. Cocteau Twins. They were just a different
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bunch, man. Yeah. Later, the whole goth scene,
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it was more, that's when they started calling
17:50
it goth. But to me, those bands, and even, like
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I said, Christian Death. I didn't even consider
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it gothic. It was just punk with an edge, man.
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Like I tell people when they ask me, what kind
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of music do you play? I just tell them, I play
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scary punk, man. I think that's the easiest way
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to describe it. Just scary punk, man. Did any
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old movies inspire the way you dress? Or any
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old horror movies or stuff like that? Were you
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into that stuff? I think a lot of band from that
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genre. Definitely horror movies were a big influence.
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Bauhaus, heavily borrowed from German Expressionism.
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Just very theatrical. You know, early, early
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silent movies. If you watch any of the early
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stuff, the Lon Chaney or Theater Bearer or Clairvaux
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and all that stuff, it's just, it has a certain
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look. And you could tell from those bands that
18:44
you can tell that that was a huge influence.
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Yeah, that's cool. Do you remember the very first
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show you played? As Burning Image? As Burning
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Image? Yeah. I would say it was at the American
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Legion Hall. American Legion Hall. I heard of
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a lot of shows there. Yeah. It's kind of one
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of those situations where there was no venue
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for us to play in. Yeah. And the regular places,
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the bars and stuff, they didn't want to. They
19:15
didn't want a death rock band. So it was kind
19:19
of when it was where we had to kind of find our
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own venue and put on our own show, which is pretty
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much the whole DIY thing with punk rock, you
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know. Yeah. Fine, you know, the Roxy doesn't
19:30
want us to play there or the Whiskey, fine, we'll
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just find some empty warehouse and put on our
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own show, that kind of thing, you know. That's
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what they did in L .A. Yeah. But here, it's the
19:39
same thing. We can't play at the Alley Cad or
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we can't play at Suds or any of those places,
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so. You know what? Hey, went over to the American
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Legion Hall. Hey, can we put on a show? Yeah,
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sure. And that's what we did. And the thing is,
19:55
is that we, the previous show before the American
20:01
Legion Hall, we were supposed to play the Granada
20:04
Theater over in Old Town. And man, the cops stopped
20:09
that one. It was bad. It was a bad situation.
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And we had everything set up, and it was just
20:17
a mess. But we told the crowd, hey, save your
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tickets. It's cool. We'll do another show soon.
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And I think maybe two weeks later is when we
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did the show at the American Legion Hall. Because
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we were going to announce our new name at the
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Granada Theater. We were going to tell them,
20:35
we're no longer the Pictures Men. We're now Burning
20:37
Image. So we did the show at the American Legion
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Hall, announced our new name. From then on, we
20:43
were Burning Image. So your first show as Burning
20:46
Image, you already had a following from the pictures.
20:49
Right. So you already had a bunch of people there.
20:50
Right. That's cool. Oh, yeah. Oh, we had a lot
20:54
of people at the Grinnell. That's what made it
20:56
so heartbreaking, man. There were so many people,
21:01
and we were so pumped, ready to play a show.
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And you got that far. You're already there. You
21:05
got your gear. You got everything set up. And
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they just said, nope, can't help it. Yeah, they
21:09
shut it down, man. That's rough. Yeah. So how
21:13
many people do you think were there and then
21:16
the American Legion Hall? Oh, easily over 500.
21:21
That's cool. Yeah. I can tell you the very first
21:24
show we ever did. Sure. As, you know, that particular
21:27
lineup. Oh, yeah. When we were the pictures.
21:31
Yeah, yeah. We played a show in Arvin. Arvin.
21:34
Yeah. And by that time, we were already starting
21:37
to play a lot of the stuff that you hear on the
21:40
compilation. Yeah. And they were horrified. They
21:46
didn't know what to make of us, man. Because
21:48
we did the whole thing. We did the whole makeup
21:50
thing. And you can just imagine, in Arvin, in
21:54
1983, it was kind of weird. It was a weird show.
22:00
You ever seen the Back to the Future scene where
22:03
Marty McFly... is playing Van Halen riffs to
22:07
the 50s people. And that's what I feel like it
22:10
would have been like. They're just like, they
22:12
don't even know what to do with it. Yeah, they
22:14
didn't. That far ahead. They were horrified.
22:20
So a small show in Arvin, that's cool. Oh, I
22:22
was going to mention Joe Sparks is from Taft.
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Right. And so there's another small town. There's
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a lot of awesome sister towns near Bakersfield,
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like Taft and Arvin and Delano. And so it's important
22:36
to note how there's people that are making music
22:40
from all over this valley. Well, you know what's
22:42
cool about that is that when I met Joe, man,
22:45
he would go on and on about Bowie. You know,
22:48
he loved Bowie. And I just thought, you know.
22:55
Wow, that's kind of weird. You know, somebody
22:56
from Taft is so into Bowie. He didn't think like,
23:01
you know, I just didn't. It was wrong of me to
23:04
think that, obviously. But I just thought, that's
23:06
a trip. Somebody from Taft knows and loves Bowie
23:11
like that. So he fit right in. Fit right into
23:15
the band. And we all thought the same. We wanted
23:18
to write the same type of music and stuff. So
23:22
it was kind of cool. It was kind of cool. That's
23:25
cool. So when people went to your shows, or even
23:30
when they listened to your records, what did
23:33
you want them to take away from it when they
23:35
left? We had some clear and concise messages
23:38
in those songs. It wasn't just about our image
23:42
or the type of music we're playing. I'm really
23:48
big on sending out a message, man. I want something
23:52
worthwhile to say. Usually when I write tunes,
23:56
the music part is really easy for me, but when
24:00
it comes to lyrics, man, something's got to set
24:03
me off, man. Something's got to propel that.
24:05
My wife and I were just talking about that on
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the way over here. That once I latch onto a theme
24:12
of some sort, man, it just becomes really easy.
24:17
That's when it flows. You know, yeah. And that's
24:20
the thing with the tunes that we're... running
24:23
with Bernie image is We had messages man, and
24:27
we wanted you to listen really pay attention.
24:30
That's why it really it bothered me when they
24:33
would protest our shows because Obviously they
24:36
weren't listening to the band. Yeah, if they
24:38
had they'd have realized You know, we know what
24:42
they're about There's still trouble, but we can
24:45
at least we know what they're about That was
24:47
a big deal for me. I wanted people to leave going,
24:50
you know, hey, I like that lyric in Final Conflict
24:52
or Time is Running Out or Burning Image Burning
24:55
or Hives. I like the message. I like what they're
24:58
saying. I'm learning. Learning something. Yeah,
25:02
that's cool. Yeah. So at the shows, what kind
25:06
of dances were people doing? Or were they just...
25:09
Not a whole lot of dancing. Just watching? Mostly
25:14
watching. Yeah, unless it was a fast tempo tune
25:17
and then it'd be a big, huge pit. But other than
25:20
that, people actually, they paid attention. Yeah.
25:23
Because it was something, we were presenting
25:26
something so new and so different for Bakersfield.
25:29
It was kind of like one of those, it was like
25:31
a, you know, like a car crash, man. It's just,
25:34
you had to watch it, man. Yeah. It's just so,
25:36
wow, what the hell are they doing here? Yeah,
25:40
did you have any theatrics you would do on stage
25:42
or stuff like that? Not necessarily, just the
25:48
way we looked. You already looked so theatrical.
25:52
We'd dress up the stage and make it look kind
25:55
of cavernous and just weird. But no, no. We really
26:02
concentrated on the music, man. Yeah. We really
26:08
didn't want anything to detract from the message
26:13
we're putting out. So what was recording like
26:19
in the 80s when you're recording these songs?
26:22
What kind of technology were you using? How did
26:24
that process go? Well, we recorded at Casbah
26:30
Studios. Where's that? In Fullerton. That's where
26:34
a lot of the OC bands would go. Social Distortion,
26:39
Adolescence, all those bands would go there.
26:44
And as a matter of fact, the guy who helped,
26:48
well, he engineered and helped produce the 45
26:52
was a guy named Charles Ramirez. We referred
26:56
to him as Chaz. But if you look on any of the,
26:59
any of a lot of those OC bands, man, you'll see
27:02
that name, Chaz Ramirez, man. So we, at the recommendation
27:08
of a friend of ours, he said, you guys got to
27:10
go there, man. It's really cool. It's just a
27:13
small little studio. I think 16 tracks at the
27:19
most, and it was all just analog. No, of course,
27:22
at that time, the whole Pro Tools and all that
27:27
wasn't even in existence. So it was just all
27:30
tape. Reel to reel? Yeah, yeah. And we went there
27:37
quite a bit, and it was a great, great studio.
27:42
But that's pretty much what we did. That was
27:46
our favorite place, man. We went there. That
27:49
was our spot. You said Social Distortion was
27:52
recording there. Is that how you got connected
27:53
with the cover artist? Well, actually, the same
27:57
guy who recommended that we go to Casbah Studios
28:00
also was friends with Art Morales. Because he
28:04
lived in, our friend lived in Fullerton. So he
28:08
knew everybody. And he knew of Art Morales and
28:11
said, hey, I can get a hold of this guy if you
28:14
want to cover for the 45. It was just that connection,
28:18
that connection to the OCC. So we talked before
28:26
about you touring with Dead Kennedys. How did
28:31
that go? Well, we didn't actually tour with them,
28:34
but it was just the one show in San Francisco.
28:40
And there's a movie called Erg, A Music War.
28:44
I don't know if you've ever seen it or not. I
28:46
haven't. Magnificent, man. Magnificent movie.
28:50
They just showcased bands. It's one great band
28:54
after another. Gang of Four, Wall of Voodoo,
28:57
Oingo Boingo, Dead Kennedys. It was awesome.
29:04
And I remember watching that. I think it was
29:07
before. We formed The Pictures. Might have been
29:10
around the same time. The early version of The
29:12
Pictures. And I remember seeing all those bands,
29:18
and especially Dead Kennedys. And I thought,
29:20
man, wow. That band is so awesome and so powerful.
29:24
And I knew a bit about them. The whole Fresh
29:27
Fruit or Rotting Vegetables and all the stuff
29:31
they were putting out. Man, little did I know.
29:34
Little did I know that a year and a half later,
29:36
I'd be... Coming face -to -face with Jell -O
29:40
and Dead Kennedys and being asked to play a show
29:44
with them. Unfortunately, I don't know what happened.
29:47
We just could not get a hold of each other to
29:50
play more shows. That sounds like a wild bill,
29:54
though. With you, Dead Kennedys, and you said
29:57
Butthole Surfers, I know they have crazy live
30:00
shows. Oh, yeah, especially at that time. Yeah,
30:03
that would have been... A lot of crazy stuff,
30:05
I would think. Oh, yeah. And a band called M
30:08
.I .A., a punk band. Oh, nice. I can't remember
30:09
where they're from. One thing I wanted to mention
30:12
was, I think that loss of communication between
30:17
Jello and Dead Kennedys and stuff was, he was
30:22
told, Jello was told that we had broken up, which
30:24
wasn't the case at all. Unfortunate. Yeah, it
30:27
was just one of those things where misinformation
30:29
and, you know, stuff happens. Did you play other
30:33
shows that were out of town like that? Played
30:35
Vegas a lot for some reason. They really liked
30:38
us there. Nice. Yeah. What was it like telling
30:40
people you're from Bakersfield? Did it change
30:43
people's expectations? No. No? No. We'd have
30:47
the occasional person come up to us and go, wow,
30:50
you guys are really from Bakersfield? And you're
30:53
doing Death Rock? That's kind of weird, man.
30:56
Yeah, because we played a show with the specimen
30:58
in Vegas. You know, the specimen, they were from
31:03
England, and there was a whole bat cave scene
31:06
and stuff. But they thought, Bakersfield, really?
31:10
That's weird. It's cool to represent Bakersfield
31:13
in other places, though. Right. You know, on
31:17
the Phantasma album, Jello did the liner notes.
31:23
And at the very end of his liner notes, he says,
31:27
how did it happen in Bakersfield? Kind of one
31:30
of those things, man. How did it not happen in
31:32
Bakersfield? It was ripe here, man. It was ripe
31:35
for something different, something new. Bakersfield
31:39
was, in the early 80s, was a pretty, it was oppressive,
31:43
man. It was a weird town. So, you know, you kind
31:46
of almost expected to see something like in England,
31:50
you know, at the time. England in the 70s, late
31:54
70s, was just in turmoil. Yeah. And the New York
31:59
scene, that was a whole different thing. And
32:02
then, of course, L .A. But in Bakersfield, it's
32:05
just a weird place to be in the early 80s. I'm
32:10
not surprised. I'm not surprised that the scene
32:13
happened like it did. Yeah. Jell -O said in an
32:17
interview with Matt Munoz of the Bakersfield
32:20
Californian in 2013, what attracted me to Burning
32:23
Image back in the 1980s was not only that their
32:26
music was unique to the punk underground, but
32:30
the fact that they pulled that off complete with
32:33
all the goth overtones in the middle of Bakersfield.
32:37
I mean, that took a lot of nerve and still does
32:39
in a way. Right. Yeah. Really goes in line with
32:43
what you're saying. I wasn't born when... All
32:46
this was happening. I was born in the 90s. And
32:48
so I never heard of Burning Image. But one time
32:52
I went to Going Underground Records and I saw
32:55
that they were reissuing. Yeah, it's from the
32:58
80s. And I listened to it and I couldn't believe
33:00
that this happened here in Bakersfield in the
33:04
80s. There's nothing like it. There's nothing
33:06
like it. You can listen to every song from the
33:09
80s from Bakersfield. There's nothing like it
33:11
by far. It's so unique. Wow. Thank you. You know,
33:15
we really put a lot of effort into doing something
33:18
different, you know, without mimicry. We wanted
33:21
to do something different. We consciously did,
33:23
but not in a contrived way. You know, we just,
33:26
we wanted to get all our influences and see,
33:30
you know, what would happen if we, you know,
33:32
put Wall of Voodoo, The Clash, Dead Kennedys
33:34
and Bowie and just mixed it all up and, you know,
33:39
and Black Flag and that's cool. Just to elaborate
33:42
on what I was saying, there were enough bands
33:45
like Minor Threat and Black Flag and a lot of
33:50
those bands. We didn't want to go in that direction.
33:52
That's why we combined everything we could think
33:57
of. What would happen if Dead Kennedys played
34:03
Wall of Voodoo? Or if Christian Death played
34:08
Gang of Four? What would it sound like? And so
34:13
that's kind of what we were trying to accomplish.
34:16
And hopefully we did. I think you did. I was
34:21
researching in some zines and I saw that three
34:23
separate times in 1984 and 85, Maximum Rock and
34:27
Roll listed Burning Image in their top 15 songs.
34:31
And I just think it's cool that a band from Bakersfield
34:36
is getting mentioned in a zine. That's not even
34:40
a death rock scene. That's a punk scene. Right.
34:42
You know, they recognize it. Jello is recognizing
34:46
how good the band is. And it's really cool to
34:51
see that. So Jello Biafra released the Alternative
34:56
Tentacles compilation 1983 to 1987 that had all
35:01
of your earlier recordings. Right. Right. So
35:05
how did the band end in 1987? What happened?
35:09
It was just one of those things. We just all
35:11
went our separate ways. Yeah. It was nothing
35:13
bad, no fist fights, nothing like that. It was
35:17
just Joe, Paul went up to San Francisco, and
35:21
then Tony just did his own thing, and I kind
35:25
of did my own thing. It was not a big, huge event.
35:30
Yeah, not one of those behind -the -music stories.
35:33
No, not at all. Just a natural progression of
35:36
the band. Yeah. As far as music, what did you
35:40
do after the band broke up? Well, I continued
35:44
to write music, but it was just kind of one of
35:48
those things. I was just writing music for myself.
35:50
Eventually, I started another project. It's called
35:55
Ivysara. Yeah. And that was just kind of one
35:58
of those projects where I was, it wasn't Burning
36:02
Image style. It was something totally different,
36:04
but I didn't want to call it Burning Image. But
36:07
it was just, I did, I just continued writing,
36:10
and writing until that project came along. What's
36:15
funny about that is that people would, I had
36:18
a website at the time, and of course everybody
36:20
at that time had MySpace and all that stuff.
36:23
Yeah. You know, and I, we're Ivysra, we're this
36:28
and that and this and that, and I put a little
36:29
tiny little blurb about, we used to be Burning
36:31
Image, I used to be in a band called Burning
36:33
Image. I guess enough people remembered Burning
36:36
Image, and, you know, it was kind of one of those
36:38
things where I would get messages and say, hey,
36:40
tell me more about this Burning Image thing,
36:42
or I heard about you guys. And it was kind of
36:45
one of those things where it's like, ah, Iverson,
36:47
that's fine, but tell me more about Burning Image.
36:50
So it's that kind of thing that eventually I
36:55
thought to myself, you know what, man? I'm going
36:57
to try this Burning Image thing one more time
36:59
and see what happens. And here we are. 2025,
37:03
still doing it, man. So how did you reform the
37:09
band? I know you reconnected with Jell -O to
37:13
release the compilation, and you played some
37:18
reunion shows, right? Well, what happened was
37:21
we found out that Jell -O was doing a spoken
37:26
word show at the Echo Lounge in L .A. My wife
37:32
and I decided, you know what? Let's go check
37:34
it out. Let's go talk to Joe. Just go see the
37:38
show. The moment I got there, he saw me and was
37:42
like, hey. He goes, after the show, come backstage.
37:45
I want to talk to you. So after the show, we
37:48
did. We went backstage and he asked me, he says,
37:50
hey. I got a cassette from Joe many, many years
37:55
ago. Back in the 80s or something. Of some of
37:58
your stuff, he goes. He goes. Do you have any
38:02
more Burning Image music? And I told him, I said,
38:06
you know what, man? I have everything. Everything
38:09
that Burning Image has ever recorded. I have
38:12
all the masters. I have everything. And his jaw
38:16
dropped to the floor and he's like, what? And
38:19
I said, yeah, I have everything. So he wanted
38:23
a CD of all the stuff that never... was put to
38:30
vinyl, like Time Is Running Out and The Lower
38:34
Walks and Pray and all these other songs that
38:37
never got printed. So it's kind of one of those
38:42
things, one thing led to another, and finally
38:45
he said, hey, I'd really like to put out a compilation
38:49
of your work on alternative tentacles. And it
38:52
happened. That's what happened. He did. But that
38:57
was because of that chance meeting that we had
39:00
where he said, I want more Burning Image stuff,
39:04
man. I just happen to have everything. We just
39:07
did a reunion show in 2004 when the compilation
39:12
came out. After the show, we went our separate
39:15
ways again, and we did not get back together
39:18
again as Burning Image until 2007. And that's
39:23
when we were asked to do a festival in Hollywood.
39:27
Nice. Because it was kind of one of those things
39:30
that just gelled. Everything was cool. It all
39:32
worked out. We decided, you know what? I've got
39:35
a lot of material, a lot of new material that
39:37
I've written. Let's record. And we did, and that's
39:40
how Phantasma came about. We did get together
39:44
in 2004, went our separate ways again, and then
39:48
got back in 2007. So for Phantasma, did you have
39:52
some new members that joined the band? Anthony
39:55
Leyva. was the bass player. Cool. And he replaced
40:01
Paul? Well, actually, actually, Tony played bass
40:06
originally in the band. And then when we got
40:10
back together again, Tony was, he started playing
40:13
guitar because I, we were going to play that
40:15
show, the Wake the Dead Festival. And I needed
40:19
a guitar player really bad because the guitar
40:21
player I had lined up couldn't do it at the last
40:24
minute. So I thought to myself, OK, who knows
40:29
these songs on guitar that could just step right
40:32
in? And I thought, Tony, you know, Tony, Tony
40:37
can probably play these tunes. So I called him
40:41
up and I said, hey, man, I've got a festival
40:43
coming up. I know you normally play bass in Burning
40:47
Image. I said, but Anthony is now playing bass.
40:50
So what do you think about playing guitar? And
40:52
he was totally up for it. and that's how it's
40:57
been since. He went from the bass player to guitar.
41:05
So that was the lineup for Phantasma as well?
41:08
Right. It was me and Tony, Paul, and Anthony.
41:12
That was the lineup. After Phantasma, you've
41:16
released a lot more albums. In 2011, you've released
41:20
Oleander. In 2014, you released The Grand Guggenhall.
41:24
Yeah. You've got three EPs that came out, Songs
41:27
of Reproach and Redemption, The King is Dead,
41:30
and Arrival. Yes. This last year, you released
41:34
Follow the Fallout. Yes. You also released a
41:37
single, Fearmonger. Right. So what are some of
41:40
the highlights for you of these new albums that
41:44
you've been recording in the past few years?
41:48
As I said earlier, I mean, there's so much to
41:51
write about now, man. Yeah. All you got to do
41:53
is watch the news. And it's just a mess. It's
41:59
turmoil, man. But that's plenty for me. Plenty
42:03
for me to pick from. But it isn't all just that.
42:09
I pretty much write all the music now. So it's
42:12
given me a lot of freedom, too. If there's something
42:15
I got to get out, I just do it, man. And that's
42:21
the cool thing about it. That is really the cool
42:24
thing about it. I get to write. And as a matter
42:28
of fact, you asked a question earlier about what
42:30
was it like not being in Burning Image anymore
42:33
when we parted ways. And I said something in
42:38
the documentary about... Losing your voice. Yeah,
42:43
the thing that bothered me the most was I had
42:46
so much to say, but I no longer had that outlet.
42:51
It really bothered me because I've always felt
42:54
there's so many things I've got to say that I've
42:57
got to sing about and talk about and just really
42:59
let loose on. And when we broke up, it bothered
43:04
me. So now that I write all the music, pretty
43:10
much, I can say whatever the hell I want and
43:16
apply the music to it. That's the best thing
43:20
about that. It's great that you have your microphone
43:23
back. You know, we've played shows with, you
43:27
know, 45 Grave when they came here to town. Nice.
43:31
That was, man, when was that? That was 2013,
43:38
2012, I think. But... You played with Christian
43:44
Death? Or some of the members of it when they
43:47
were Christian Death 1334. Right. Right. That
43:50
was at the knitting factory. Nice. That's in
43:56
L .A.? In Hollywood. It's no longer there. Oh,
43:58
it's gone. Yeah, unfortunately. And then, of
44:02
course, we played that big festival, the Wake
44:04
the Dead Festival. We've played with Fangs on
44:07
Fur and Deez Hawks and really a lot of good bands,
44:11
man. Fangs on Fur, I like those guys. They're
44:13
really good. If you get a chance, check them
44:15
out. They're a good band. So where can people
44:20
listen to your music and see you play at? Well,
44:24
you can go to all the Spotify's and Apple Music
44:29
and all that stuff. But the one I really, truly
44:33
want people to go to is Bandcamp. Okay, Bandcamp.
44:37
So hit up Bandcamp. Yeah, it's the best, man,
44:39
because you got a lot of bands there that...
44:42
They sell their music. They actually can sell
44:46
their music. Direct, yeah. Because the music
44:48
business is in shambles. It's horrible. And your
44:54
Spotify's and all those Pandora's and stuff,
44:58
it's made being a musician terribly difficult.
45:05
And now when you make music, basically you're
45:09
just making music because you love doing what
45:11
you're doing. But Bandcamp is really cool because
45:15
they take a minimal amount, man. And whatever
45:18
you sell on there, it's yours and it's good.
45:21
Bandcamp, man. Go to Bandcamp. Find bands. Listen
45:24
to them and support them, man. It's really clear
45:28
that you love music. And when I was researching
45:31
Burning Image, I found in the Bakersfield Californian.
45:35
you were shouted out as attending a lot of different
45:37
concerts, like when you went to see X play at
45:40
the Crystal Palace and going to see Jane's Addiction
45:43
when you're here. They mention Moe from Burning
45:47
Image attended this in a newspaper. Really? You
45:50
love music. I do. That's cool. Wow. Someone noticed
45:54
you. You're a local celebrity. Wow. Yeah. No,
45:58
I did go to those shows, yeah. You know, John
46:01
Doe from X, he lived in Oildale for a while.
46:05
Yeah, he did. He did. And I think he moved up
46:09
to Fraser Park, and now he's up north somewhere.
46:11
I don't know where he is. Yeah, I'm not sure.
46:14
Yeah. You like to attend all types of concerts
46:17
throughout the years. I do. But not just, you
46:20
know, not just death rock or punk or anything.
46:22
I like all kinds of music, man. Is there any
46:24
surprising artists that people wouldn't know
46:26
that you like? That's a great question. You know,
46:31
I like jazz. I like bossa nova. I like Cheap
46:36
Trick, man. That's one of my favorite bands ever.
46:38
Nice. They got catchy songs. The first album
46:43
is amazing. I highly recommend you pick up the
46:46
first album. And another band. I love the Carpenters,
46:51
man. I do. Nice. You know, I really do. If you
46:55
give the Carpenters a listen, man, that's a sad
46:58
band. It really is. Everybody says the same thing.
47:01
Karen Carpenter has the saddest voice, man. She's
47:05
so soulful, man. She was so cool. But no, I like
47:08
all kinds of music, man. I really do. I like
47:11
opera, too. I really do. I love classical music.
47:13
I love opera. All kinds, man. I really do. Sometimes
47:20
you hear somebody say, oh, I love all kinds of
47:23
music. But I really do. I really do, man. I'll
47:28
listen to whatever, man. It doesn't matter to
47:30
me. If it's good, I'm there. It's cool. At the
47:35
end of the show, we always talk about Bakersfield
47:38
bands that you want to shout out. Is there any
47:42
Bakersfield bands, current bands, or even past
47:45
bands that you think people need to go listen
47:48
to? Right. You know, bands like Cradle of Thorns,
47:54
you know, I think they have stuff out there.
47:58
You know what? They're actually a really cool
48:01
band. I like Niner Niner. They're a really good
48:04
band, man. Nice. What type of music is that?
48:06
I don't really know. It's just like a bit of
48:08
everything, man. These guys are so good. Okay.
48:12
They really are so good. I recommend those guys.
48:16
I believe they have product out, so. Get their
48:18
stuff, man, and go see their shows. You get a
48:21
chance. As far as bands from back then, I don't
48:27
know what's available, but bands like Big Jed
48:31
and the Flatbeds or, like I said, Cradle of Thorns,
48:33
they were a great band. They really were. What
48:36
other band did I like back then? The Lonely,
48:38
they were cool. That was a good band. Let's see.
48:41
As far as Burning Image goes, we're actually
48:44
playing a show. September 26th, we're opening
48:48
for Gene Loves Jezebel. Awesome. At the Pyrenees
48:51
Cafe. It's going to be a cool show. And doing
48:56
some more recording. I'm always writing, man.
48:59
So you'll probably see something in the spring.
49:03
Something new by Burning Image. Awesome. Looking
49:06
forward to it. Hopefully if I can work faster,
49:08
maybe I can get it out quicker. But yeah, I'm
49:11
always writing stuff. More Burning Image to come.