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How To Break Free From A Narcissist! The Empathy Trap That Keeps You Stuck | Shivan Sarna · The Shivan Show with Shivan Sarna

• 0:00
  When you're a nice person, you will make excuses.
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  The empathy trap is when you know why the person is a narcissist and you make an excuse for them.
• 0:09
  You thought they loved you, but if they did, why would they be acting like this?
• 0:12
  She's a narcissist and she's a high conflict person.
• 0:15
  You put those two things together, there's always drama.
• 0:18
  There's always a war going on.
• 0:19
  What is fun is you reclaiming your sovereignty to be out of the grips of that narcissist.
• 0:25
  Are you in a narcissistic relationship?
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  Were you in one and you finally got out?
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  Are you in one and you have no idea how to get out?
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  It's hard.
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  I just want to let you know it's hard.
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  I know.
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  Because I was in one for 38 years.
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  I didn't even know what a narcissist was until the 90s.
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  Dad died when I was 13.
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  Mom died when I was 33.
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  So here I am, a 33-year-old woman.
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  I had met this person as a teacher and mentor.
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  And she had taken me under her wing.
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  She just loved me so much.
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  And my mother appreciated her help.
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  And my mother had said to her, hey, listen, after I'm gone,
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  would you take care of Siobhan?
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  But she didn't mean it like that.
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  She didn't mean like, would
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  you consume Siobhan?
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  She meant like, keep an eye out for my daughter.
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  There's a difference.
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  So the woman that I'm referring to in my life, I was in relationship with for 38 years.
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  Now,
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  I still am to a certain extent because she would be homeless if I did not pay for her
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  assisted living.
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  And when I'm saying that, it sounds nuts.
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  Like Siobhan, you're still in
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  relationship.
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  I'm not the way I was.
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  I'm still thinking like you must think I'm nuts.
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  I'm
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  thinking about the empathy trap.
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  And the empathy trap is when you know why the person is a narcissist
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  and sometimes you don't know and it doesn't matter.
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  And you make an excuse for them as to
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  why you are in relationship with them and why you're still helping them.
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  This can affect your
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  health because you lose yourself.
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  You don't take care of yourself.
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  You're so busy taking care of
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  them, so preoccupied with what they think about you that there's no other room for anything else
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  than the bare necessities.
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  You are exhausted from that drain of energy.
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  You are confused because
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  you thought they loved you, but if they did, why would they be acting like this?
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  But they act like
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  they do love you sometimes, and then they love bomb you.
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  It's just so confusing.
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  And then when
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  they criticize you after the love bombing, it hurts so much.
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  Oh my gosh, it hurts to the core.
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  And you think, what have I done?
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  I've displeased them.
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  It's messed up.
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  It's messed up.
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  If you've
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  never been in a narcissistic relationship or you have no idea what I'm talking about,
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  there are two things.
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  Either you've escaped it or you're in it and you can't see it or
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  you are a narcissist.
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  I don't know.
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  I don't even think that's right.
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  But it's something for
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  everybody to consider.
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  The empathy narcissistic trap is you can figure out, you know why they're
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  like that, but they treat you like crap.
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  And you're trying to save them to a certain extent
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  from themselves, from the pain of their past.
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  You feel good about saving them.
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  And there's like a
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  payoff.
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  There was a payoff for me to feel like I was saving her.
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  Then eventually, and I mean,
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  it took a long time, decades, it became so egregious and so bad that I finally woke up
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  and rearrange things so that she didn't live with me anymore, so that I didn't act like her ATM for
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  unlimited financial transactions, that I didn't try to promote her worldview cause with her
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  podcast and with all this production I was doing for her, that I protected my husband from her
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  insults and her verbal abuse, I finally like snapped out of it.
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  And when I did, I grieved.
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  I was ashamed.
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  I felt crazy.
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  Like I'd been gaslit by her for so long, but then I couldn't believe
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  that me, a smart human being who actually can function really well in a lot of other relationships,
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  fell for it.
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  Hook, line, and sinker.
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  Okay, so why do you think that happened?
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  I had some payoffs.
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  I enjoyed feeling special.
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  I enjoyed our history, the positive parts of our history.
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  At times I
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  enjoyed her.
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  Charming, funny, clever, wise.
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  Now we're going to put a layer on this that's going to
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  be really make it like even more weird is that she is psychic.
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  Legitimately, absolutely,
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  positively psychic.
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  It was like that specialness of maybe, maybe you can relate, like maybe they're
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  a clergy in the church.
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  Maybe they are a boss that has special access to money and raises and
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  promotions and gossip, and you are the golden child at the office.
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  They're promising you a
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  quicker path to some aspect of religion.
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  There was a path of preferential treatment.
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  I was very
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  vulnerable when I met her.
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  I had two older sisters, but they didn't live nearby.
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  And I was a young
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  woman trying to figure out her future and her relationships.
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  And this woman was very helpful.
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  She actually did save me from a lot of suffering.
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  She guided me to making right decisions in many
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  cases.
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  That was the only person I knew that was helping me like that.
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  And I entrenched myself
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  in that situation so that I really felt no alternatives.
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  I did not say no to Linda for
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  38 years.
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  When I finally did, which was more than reasonable, it was bad.
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  Oh my gosh.
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  She asked my
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  assistant to look out to make sure that I wasn't getting bruised by my husband.
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  Let me just say
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  that's the furthest thing that could possibly happen.
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  She put the seeds of doubt into people
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  close to me, but weren't close enough to know the situation.
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  But she would gather fantasy committee
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  of the lady at the park, the lady at the front desk, the doctor's office about people speaking
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  about me negatively.
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  The bottom line is, is it was really, really ugly.
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  How could you?
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  You've
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  betrayed me.
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  Don't you remember that you said you would X, Y, Z?
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  And she said, I've seen your future
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  and it doesn't look good.
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  Like, low, bad thing.
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  She really like lost it.
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  When you're a nice person,
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  that will trip you up.
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  You will make excuses for people who treat you poorly.
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  Some of you are not
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  going to be able to get out of the relationship physically, mentally, financially, emotionally,
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  but there are things you can do to improve your situation.
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  This is not going to turn into like
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  book talk, although I'm a fan.
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  This is the book called It's Not You by Dr. Romani,
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  and she has a fantastic YouTube channel.
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  I would read a page of this and it would like reset my
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  aura.
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  It would reset my compass.
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  I'd watch a few minutes of her YouTube and I'd be like,
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  I'm not crazy.
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  It's okay.
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  I had to overcome so much personal shame that I had fallen for this,
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  that I had allowed myself to get in this situation to the point of where I had to just say,
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  you know what?
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  It is what it is.
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  I'm a human being.
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  It happened.
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  And I've learned a lot.
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  That's all there is to it.
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  I mean, like I could continue to beat myself up, but it will
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  only deprive me of the joy that as a being I so richly deserve.
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  Why prolong the agony?
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  So here's another book.
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  This is by a social worker who became an attorney.
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  This happens to be high
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  conflict people in legal disputes.
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  His name is Bill Eddy, and he also has a podcast.
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  I think
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  it's called It's Not My Fault.
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  Not to be confused with It's Not You.
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  I listen to a little bit of
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  podcast, but the books really helped.
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  This book is also called by Bill Biff.
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  Brief, informative,
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  friendly, and firm.
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  Quick responses to high-conflict people, their personal attacks,
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  hostile emails, and social media meltdowns.
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  A high-conflict person is someone who feels like
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  the world owes them, that they have been ripped off, they have been treated without justice,
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  they have been victimized and marginalized, and they're looking for someone to pay them back,
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  even if you're not the one who did it to them.
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  So there is a martyrdom to them.
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  The way that
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  they behave is almost unexplainable.
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  Like, it doesn't make sense about why this person would
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  be like this, but they make people's lives miserable.
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  And they are clogging up our legal
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  system.
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  So this is high conflict people in legal disputes.
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  These are the people who you get an
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  offender bender with them and they try to take your house because when they were young or 10
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  years ago, they didn't get the alimony they wanted.
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  It's a mentality.
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  Those books were really,
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  really helpful for me because it explained a lot of the behavior.
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  So she's a narcissist and she's
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  a high conflict person.
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  You put those two things together, there's always drama.
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  There's always a
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  war going on.
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  There's always people who are the enemy.
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  There's always a lawsuit in the background
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  floating or threats of it, I should say.
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  And this is interesting.
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  They're not always wrong,
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  but it gets a little bit the boy who cried wolf.
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  It becomes very difficult for the people around
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  them to like keep their head on straight.
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  Why am I telling you this?
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  Because you might be in that
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  situation.
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  And once I read that book about high conflict people, it like totally explained a lot.
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  I find that when I can get an explanation of certain things that it helps me categorize it
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  of my brain.
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  It helps me remove the emotion and the drama from it.
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  It helps me to get my north
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  and south, east and west together in a way that allows me to move forward.
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  None of this is fun.
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  But what is fun is you reclaiming your sovereignty, of you reclaiming your personal boundaries,
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  reclaiming your personal energy.
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  When that happens, so many things open up for you.
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  The
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  possibility of better health, the possibility of your finances coming back online, the possibilities
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  of a future without this weight dragging you down.
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  We're going to go into another category here,
• 10:53
  speaking of legal things.
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  If you are in a legal situation with some of these people,
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  or somebody has warned you about someone and authentically warned you not just like to cause
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  more problems, you have to use your discernment, right?
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  Make sure you have a really good lawyer.
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  I find that some people are not comfortable reaching out to an attorney.
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  And I know there are a lot of bad attorneys.
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  As a matter of fact, many of them are perpetuating this high conflict personality disorder into the world.
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  And that's what's clogging up the legal system.
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  And that's what is causing nightmares for a lot of good people.
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  And they're enabling them.
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  They like to be the star and the savior and the hero.
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  Okay, that's not what I'm talking about.
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  Yes, all that.
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  That exists and is real.
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  And I have witnessed it.
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  It's horrible.
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  Truly, truly horrible and can ruin lives.
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  I'm talking about a really good attorney who's going to advocate for you, a good person.
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  I'm talking about a really good attorney who's going to make a contract as ironclad as possible.
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  I'm talking about a really good expert who has seen it all.
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  They have been there.
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  They have done that.
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  They have had the other side of the arguments from those, I'm just going to call them bad people.
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  They know their tricks.
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  And the other people are, by the way, constantly iterating different tricks in a form of, dare I say it, evil.
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  your advocate your good attorney needs to fight for you this is just like a subtopic okay
• 12:32
  if you're in a legal situation do not be shy about getting a lawyer how did i find one lawyer that i
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  needed and it's not like i've been in a ton of mess messes lawsuits but i do like protections
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  i like planning for the end of life i like planning for emergencies these are all things
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  that have happened to me or i've been witness to and i've thought you know what i'm gonna be
• 12:51
  be prepared for that as much as possible.
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  And I did not know how to find, for example,
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  an elder care attorney.
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  I happened to be walking down the street and I saw an attorney's office.
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  And I thought, you know what?
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  I have five minutes.
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  I'm going to run in here and see what kind of law
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  they do.
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  It was a woman who, that was her last day practicing after a 30-year career.
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  And she said,
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  I don't do it anymore, but here's somebody who does.
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  And that person ended up being fantastic.
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  Just putting yourself in the right place at the right time, asking questions, not being shy,
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  making those inquiries.
• 13:28
  I call it the rule of three phone calls.
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  Those three phone calls often
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  help you get to your goal.
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  Hey, Sadie, what are you doing?
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  Come here, baby.
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  Oh, here, baby.
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  Oh,
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  my God.
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  Oh, my God.
• 13:39
  Hi, Sadie.
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  I love you.
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  She's going to bark in a minute because she's going to
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  see the neighbor.
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  But anyway, you get the idea.
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  So if you feel like, you know, I really do need
• 13:49
  to talk to someone about some legal advice or you're shy about it, now's the time.
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  So make
• 13:55
  those three phone calls.
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  Ask a friend.
• 13:58
  They don't have yellow pages anymore.
• 14:00
  Look it up in Claude,
• 14:01
  aka Claudia, or ChatGPT, or Google.
• 14:05
  It's fun to say that Google's old school now.
• 14:08
  Crazy, right?
• 14:09
  Anyway, I just wanted to encourage you to take some proper steps for yourself if you are dealing with a potential divorce.
• 14:16
  I think that this rule still holds true, so look into it.
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  And that is you go and you find all the mean lawyers in your area, and you go and you meet with them so that when the other party is looking for their attorney, the one you've met with can't represent them because you've already connected with them.
• 14:37
  I'm not an attorney, obviously, but I do know that one word on a contract can change the trajectory of your success regarding that contract.
• 14:45
  Certain clauses should always be in your contract.
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  I know so many people who think something bad will never happen to them.
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  I know for a fact that because I've had attorneys in place and I've had contracts in place that bad things haven't happened to me on occasion because I had those protections in place.
• 15:05
  If you're in a narcissistic situation, get some resources, take better care of yourself, snap out of it.
• 15:11
  And I know it's not easy.
• 15:13
  I know it's not easy.
• 15:14
  If you're in a potential business arrangement with someone who, no, it's just if you're in a business arrangement with someone, this is what I always say.
• 15:24
  My lawyers really mean, so don't be surprised when you're reading the agreement.
• 15:28
  Number one, that's their job.
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  I pay them for that, so I don't have to be mean.
• 15:33
  And number two, contracts preserve relationships.
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  Think about it.
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  Boundaries preserve relationships.
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  This is a formalized boundary.
• 15:44
  When you're going into a relationship in business, make sure you know how you all are getting out of it when everybody's happy and getting along.
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  That's it.
• 15:53
  This, by the way, of what I'm telling you is like very old business advice, but I see a lot of people not following it.
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  And I want to make sure you are protected.
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  Look, hopefully you never have to use the get out clause.
• 16:10
  but have it there in place just in case.
• 16:13
  You have a life to live that you could potentially not even
• 16:16
  imagine what it's like to be out of the grips of that narcissist.
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  I just want to promise you that
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  there is life and love on the other side of it and you may have to work like hell to get out of it
• 16:29
  but it's worth it.
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  I promise it's worth it.
• 16:32
  There are techniques, there are tools, there are support
• 16:35
  groups.
• 16:35
  Get the book.
• 16:36
  It's not you.
• 16:37
  Watch Dr. Romani.
• 16:39
  Find out about high conflict people
• 16:41
  because it will help you in your decision making and how you operate with them.
• 16:47
  If you're just
• 16:47
  getting started, there's a book called Boundaries that's excellent.
• 16:51
  It is very Christian if that's
• 16:53
  going to bother you.
• 16:54
  Just read the parts that are applicable.
• 16:56
  That was a really good place for me to
• 16:58
  start because it kind of gave me permission to have a boundary when previously they were so porous.
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  Like they were non-existent.
• 17:06
  Okay, that's it for now.
• 17:08
  Love you.
• 17:08
  Namaste.
• 17:09
  Hang in there.
• 17:10
  So that's a wrap on today's episode.
• 17:12
  Thank you so much for being here.
• 17:13
  It genuinely means everything to me.
• 17:16
  If something in this conversation sparked something for you,
• 17:19
  share it with a woman or a guy in your life who needs to hear it.
• 17:22
  That's how this show grows.
• 17:24
  That's how we heal the planet together.
• 17:25
  And that's how we really connect.
• 17:27
  For more resources, free tools, and everything we talked about today,
• 17:30
  head over to SiobhanSarna.com.
• 17:32
  That's S-H-I-V-A-N-S-A-R-N-A dot com.
• 17:37
  It's all there waiting for you.
• 17:38
  And until next time, keep asking the questions, keep finding the answers.
• 17:42
  You deserve the full picture and the very best.
• 17:45
  Namaste.