Latest / Pod Therapy / #389: Self Love Motivation, Stuck in a Rut, Sharing Custody

Transcript

#389: Self Love Motivation, Stuck in a Rut, Sharing Custody · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: They're exactly like real.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, happy Gilmore, name your price, name your bets
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: and dollars for a blowdrup. Oh well sorry on four
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: and a half.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: And a half from Fabulous Lost face a man. This
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: is pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: You can submit your questions anonymously at podtherapy dot net
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: or email us at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: And now broadcasting from the Churn for a lot four weeks.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: That's Jim, that's Whitney, I'm Nick. It's time for some
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: pod therapy.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Yay. So, main show audience, we will not be here
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: much longer at the Fabulous Churn in Las Vegas. So
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: change is in the air and we are still sorting
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: out the deats on that. But it may even result
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: in us having some cool live shows, potentially broadcast on Twitter.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Or YouTube, maybe from top Golf.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Maybe from Top Golf, and potentially just some video shows.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: I want to I want to do that. Maybe I
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: want to do that tonight.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I got to Top Golf.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I want to do this. Let's just put an end
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: to this right now.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: His athletic crocs.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: On, you know when to mess with these bad boys
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: my Father's Day crocs. Pretty pumped about that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: You wore them on Father's Day? You received them?
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: I received them as a gift. Yes, the somebody hates you.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: I love my crocs. Somebody hates you and gave you crocs.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: They need to put it. They thank you. Keep it
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: in your pants with I can't help it.
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: The outline c r O s us.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: These are the real ones.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: Oh, I didn't know what outline on Jim you get yeah.
• 1:35
  Speaker 5: Something else crocs? Yeah, so similar.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: To so somebody has to be like knock off crocs
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: one hundred let me finished the said go on, they're
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: called cocks, right, thank you.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Penis shape. I made sure, okay, but like somebody has
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: to have made that right. You're probably right. I feel
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: like that that exists already. But yes, I like my
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: new uh my new crocks. I gotta put my giblets
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: in my got all my little giblets from the frog store.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: So pretty pumped about that. You can listen in on
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: some of the last Yes, yes, I like that. Oh
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I I am making progress on my forty by forty
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: for those who are interested. I've also been watching Archer,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: you know, just moving right along okay.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: It goes from I want to play around a golf
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: to counting top golf. I want to watch a celebrated archer.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Is this celebrated show our celebrated show? Jacob said, he'll
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: give it to me. Jacob's also in a very generous mood,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: with a lot of want to.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: Get done with this fucking bit, done with this bit
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: that I know isn't going to get done.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: This is probably true.
• 2:41
  Speaker 5: I feel like Jim started, so he's got to finish,
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: and I refuse to let him not.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Just yeah, should be at my grave and then the
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: last thing shall throw the calendar over.
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: My grave and my nine ne fucking I feel like
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: Jim has done everything on that list that he is
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: going to do.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, like it has already happened, already passed Patreon dot com,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: slash therapy. We had some guests join us here in
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: the churn, completely by surprise. Pretty fun to say hello
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: friends and enjoy some snacker.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: He told me they were coming. I just forgot you guys.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Then for a while, it has been a very eventful
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: date show announcements. Our buddy David Sorensen got married, author
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: of many a jingle, including uh I think Jim's Tales
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: of Woe and Jim learned a thing?
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: Can you make a jingle for the show?
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: No, never replaced that banj.
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: But you know you've done so much already.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Another announcement, Manu and Jim updated Jim's Neurotic Bingo dot com.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: So if you'd like to listen to the show and
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: play a game as you listen and mark off your
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: own Bingo card, check it out. It's also in your
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: episode description. It's always been linked right now, so with
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of more current references since the last
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: time it had been updated was like five years ago.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: So exciting things happening in the world.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: I'm just trying to decide if it's fair for Nick
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: to even play Jims. Yeah, I know, I feel like
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: he's going to trigger things.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, all me phrases like there's you're in there too,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Like there's lots of things. I think we even have
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: some Whitney ones.
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: Let me go see yep, check it out, go too.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like I can click midlife crisis. Yeah, we
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: did talk about Spirit Airlines.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's and that was Whitney. I didn't even bring
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: it back.
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: He said a weird word. What was it?
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I don't say weird words, which that's how you say it. Anyway,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: We've got some great questions for today's show, and we're
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: leading off the order with staying Motivated to Love Myself. Hi,
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Pod Therapy. I was an anonymous writer in twenty twenty three,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: episode two ninety three, and you answered my question about
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: my wife losing physical attraction to me. Very short summary.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: I gained a lot of weight and my wife shared
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: some hurtful realities about her feelings towards me. Despite your
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: words and insightightful advice, I spiraled for a couple of
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: months before I went back and listened again. Nothing about
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: the advice changed, but I picked up one new thing.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: One of you said offhandedly, I'm glad to hear your
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: inn therapy. The problem was I wasn't in there.
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: Oh, I'm going to go back and listen to that.
• 5:17
  Speaker 5: I gotta hear tho.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: God, simple statement pushed me to consider that I probably
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: should be.
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: Winning.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: So starting in.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: January, I'm gonna take credit.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was call it Jacob. Give him
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: a point for that one. So, starting in January twenty
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: twenty four, I found a therapist and went for the
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: first time. It took me a long time to work
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: through everything I had going on, but I eventually accepted
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: that I was depressed and probably had been for a
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: long time. We worked through a lot of feelings and
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: post traumatic events. Finally we worked on accepting that I
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: was enough just the way I am. This last one
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: is where I wanted to ask a follow up question
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: to all of you. The past three or four months,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I started exercising and eating healthier. I've lost thirty pounds. Wow,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I'm nowhere close to my goal weight, and like Nick
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: always warns when he's talking about weight loss, it's slow.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: I really don't look that different, even though I do
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: feel good. I'm doing it for me. But it turns
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: out that taking care of your mental health and making
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: an effort are attractive to your partner. So for those
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: that care. I'm still together with my wife of almost
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: twenty years. She's supportive of me, and things are much
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: better since I get a hold. I got a hold
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: of my own feelings and I'm better able to share those.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: So here's my problem. If I'm enough, why am I
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: working so hard to change? Yeah? My therapist says that
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: loving yourself is taking care of yourself. Something in my head, though,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: can't get past the fact that things are better because
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I'm changing, but that means I'm not enough right. Every
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: day I have to get up and tell myself positive
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: things to keep the depression at bay, but then also
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: find motivation to continue working on myself. I guess I
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: lived so long thinking that only negative feelings like fear
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: and shame could motivate change that I'm having trouble making
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: the mental leap to the positive. Any advice to push
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: past this conflict in my head. Really can't thank you
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: all enough. You've made a huge difference in my life.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Listening again to that episode, you all told me everything
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: that I would eventually hear from my therapist. I just
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: couldn't accept it at the time. If I had, I
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: could have saved a lot of money. A Patreon subscription
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: is nothing compared to a year plus of therapy. You've
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: got a subscriber for as long as you keep doing
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the podcast. Thank you Anonymous.
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: Can we have a Patreon level for claiming that we
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: are your therapists?
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah, this level you could just say yes, these are
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: my therapist. Yeah yeah, this is like whenever you agree
• 8:04
  Speaker 6: to tell.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Let somebody tell somebody that you're their boyfriend. It's like, hey,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I'll give you twenty bucks, shut up, walk with me.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Which we do have a Patreon. Yeah, there's a number
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: for that. Absolutely never been a buyer, but it's there.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: It's always been there.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: You can always say I'm a boyfriend.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: That's right, it's fine, your boyfriend. There's a number, and
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: boyfriend for the night, there's a number. Okay, but I
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: think absolutely there should be a number where you get
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: to tell just.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Kicked off a couple of gems neurotic Bago squares.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Oh good, Oh good, that's that's lovely.
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: What were they? What is the Patreon level at which?
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, I thought of everything. I like this, but yes,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I love your idea for that Patreon point. That is
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: a really good idea. But no, this is a really
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: good question. I like this one a lot where the
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: writer's kind of talking about the catch twenty two of Okay.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I went through a spell where I was depressed, I
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: hated myself. I was going through a lot of body
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: image stuff. I made a huge change in my life
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: mentally by accepting myself for who I am and being
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: positive towards myself, but I am currently trying to change myself.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: How do I balance those two things simultaneously? I'm good
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: enough and I want to change. So are those two
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: ideas in conflict? Okay? Basically is the question I think. Yeah,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I think they're They're saying that's the deal.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: With Am I enough? But I'm working on myself? Are
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: these two contradictory?
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think they are.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm trying.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I'm having trouble being able to verbalize it.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Because you're drunk, Tanjamon.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I have a good analogy, and I feel very
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: proud because Nick I feel like is the analogy guy,
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: and I'm always trying to remember them and I never can.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: It's not only analogy he can do.
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: You know, it's not golf. Can you be enough in
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: golf and still be working on yourself?
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Oh? You just ended the show, Whitney. I can't handle
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: that question a lot.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's listen, let's okay, let's deal with the writer.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Come back to that. Jesus. It just pulls out his
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: journal and just starts.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Furiously to think about this. In our next studio, can
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: we have a couch that we lay down?
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: Oh, that's like, oh, yeah, I think we need a couch.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Everybody's at least the love seats.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's ye. I'll kick my feet up on a
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: love seat.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: That everyone of those like zero G reclining chairs.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be fine.
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: May be a blow up couch like in the nineties.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: Slept on one of those ones. Mattress that.
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: Okay? No, my I thought of an analogy for this.
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: I was very proud of myself. I want to hear
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: your thoughts and you can just shoot me down. It's fine,
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: I know you do, so it's all right, all right.
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: So my thoughts were, what is another situation where it's
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: something is enough, but like you should still keep working
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: on it.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's so stupid.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus Christ is like, NA, who would do that?
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: I feel like I need to change your name.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: To your cat? Can we put that on the patreot?
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: No, our next animal. I'm totally letting y'all name because
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: I was really impressed with all the outrageous names given
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: for uh, for Emma's horse. No, I feel like I
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: need an Instagram for cat lease, you know, all right?
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: Side notes, So my analogy is my analogy is a
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: car all right, you have a car. It needs oil.
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: Your car is leaking oil, it's low on oil. If
• 11:35
  Speaker 5: your car is low on oil, it still drives, all right,
• 11:38
  Speaker 5: still get you from point A to point B. But
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: you're like you're risking it. You know, maybe it's like
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: not good for your engine. I don't really know cars
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: that welso I don't know the consequences of having But
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: like if it's full, like you you top up the oil,
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: then it's running like a dream, like there could be
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: but it's got enough to get you round, but like
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: it needs more oil.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: It's just gets you around because it's so oily. It's
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: just sliding right across the road.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: No, this is a This is a perfect analogy.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: It is I love it, absolutely needed.
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: The analogy was the show out of the video because
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: they're just Jacob and I are.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: Just the video. Here say oil one more.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: But this is you gotta get that oil over windshield fast.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Great analogy though, because like, yeah, something can be enough,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: but you have to maintain it for it to continue.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: To That's a really good point, Nick. My analogy like
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: that shut up when yours was terrible. Nick, I like that.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: I don't like a car.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I did just say what she said? No, no, it
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: did sounds.
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: Okay. I need to know here because this is this.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Is why we have a woman on the show.
• 12:59
  Speaker 7: She can over with the exact we can love it
• 13:03
  Speaker 7: exactly where it is.
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: It's a running joke now where Peter will say something
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: that I've like told set out louder whispered him, and
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: then he said, there was like, oh, Peter, I just
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: said that there's.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: No witnesses anyway, at least he cannot tell.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Could I try an analogy as well?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, go ahead, I would like to try, and
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I'd love to hear what your thoughts matter.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Shelter, Oh, if you have, you need shelter to live, Okay,
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: So if you have, you know, a small little studio
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: apartment or a little rundown spot. But it's safe, it's warm,
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: it's cool, whatever you need in the in the weather
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: where you are, you've got shelter, yes, you you have,
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: you have achieved liveability, you can you can shelter. Yes, yeah,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: but you might want it to be a little more comfortable.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: So you put in trash, you put in crap.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe I got some.
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: Analogy, okay, Ice skates Okay, yeah, they're enough, right, Yeah,
• 14:05
  Speaker 7: but you gotta keep sharpeningough, you gotta sharp Let's keep
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: that coming up with other analogies that are exactly the
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: same thing, but just another.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, better, it's better analogies.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: So like if you're in the water and you're just walking,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: you know on the on the bottom down there, you
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: can just push yourself along, you know, you could move
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: along more efficiently, you could by swimming or some oil.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: You could off the oil and then you just because
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: the oil don'll mix with the waters across the water coast.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I agree, I thought it was wonderful.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I give you full par so I actually do have
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: a real not analogy, but a comment on this. I
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: think the analogies have all been used up, so I'll
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: doubt it. But no writer like this idea that you Okay, yes,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I think you are sufficient, but we have to use
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: like the right concept here. You are a human. Humans grow,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Humans change over time. Humans are not static beings, right,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: So like if you had a child, you look at
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: your child and think, my gosh, like this child is enough.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Like I accept this child who they are. I love
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: them exactly as they are. But part of who they
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: are is their potential and their their growth, right, part
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: of their normal analogy I mean, okay, so you cover
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: the kid and oil ya is such a good one. Yeah,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: part of their normal growth is them are they're they're like.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Part of your acceptance of them is your acceptance of
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: the responsibility to develop them. So I think you look
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: at yourself in the same way. There's a sense that
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I am sufficient, I am enough, but also I have
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: sufficient resources within me to continue my journey. And I
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: think that's really the piece that we're trying to work on.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: It's not so much it's it's about getting you to
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: not look at your deficiencies and inadequacies because you're historically
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: getting those wrong sized in your mind. You tend to
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: focus on those so much. The obscure the accuracy with
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: which you self assess that that is something that happens
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: in CBT. We call that a cognitive distortion. Has a
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: lot of different names to it. Some people call it,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I think the ink blot, or like a what's that
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: there's it's the ink something. How one drop of ink
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: discolors the entire beaker of water? I don't remember what
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: that fuck? I forgot my kid done with analogy? Yeah, sorry, sorry,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: CBT either I doubt that we were done. Yeah, anyway,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: call it disqualifying the positive, that that's a mental filter,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: that was the and so yeah, both of those are
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: what you right, So you don't want to have an octopus.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: They're going to it up.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: You will basically have a personality octopus that you've been
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: obsessing over. No, But like writer, that's the problem here
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: is that historically what you've been doing is cognitively distorting
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: your own value by focusing only on the negatives and
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: disqualifying the positives. So it is good emotional mental health
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: yoga for you to constantly restretch that new muscle of
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: forcing yourself to see the positives. That's not necessarily to
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: end the conversation about growth. It's not designed to adjudicate
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: your value. It's designed because you always tend to go
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the other way and notice the negative. So forcing yourself
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: to dwell upon the positives and be mindful is you
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: learning how to re calibrate your sense of proportion. That
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you become completely ignorant of anything in
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: your life that needs to be adjusted, right. I mean
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: we've worked in rehabs, and in rehabs we're working simultaneously on,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: you need to love yourself and stop fucking doing drugs,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: right and so, and both things are actually very connected.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Part of how you're gonna love yourself is stop doing drugs.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: So I think that that's part of this story for
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: me too, writer, is yeah, breaking through this idea of
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: like insufficiency by focusing on what's excellent about you and
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: what's good while also continuing to do the work of growth,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: because that's what you are designed to do.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Now. I do want to make another important point here,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: which is that you were talking about. Yeah, I'm I'm
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: told I need to love myself, and I've made good
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: progress with that, but I'm also here trying to change
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to the gym, I'm doing all
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: these things, I'm eating healthy, all of that. I do
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: want to point out here that by doing those things,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: you aren't changing who you are, Okay. So, like if
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: anybody begins this exercise or weight loss journey where you're exercising,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: you're changing the way you eat. You're changing your body
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: and how it looks or or how it functions, which
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I think is even more important than how it looks,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: is how it's functioning. You're not changing who you are
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: who you are. You're not changing your identity. So it
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: isn't that you're saying like, well I'm not enough or
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I will be enough, because none of that changes. It's
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: really just about maintenance and the way that I was.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: And again, like I'm going back to Whitney's analogy because
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I use similar when we talk about Penn's oil when
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: we talk about exercise, and I've even brought it up
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: here on the show many times. You know, the philosophy
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: they to look at when it comes to exercise and
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: eating healthy is it's like maintaining a race car. You know,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Like if you've got a race car.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Put oil in it.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Well not only oil, but like the right kind of oil, right,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: if you're putting gasoline, the right kind of gasoline.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I just I recently on the way back so much mouse.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I know, I didn't.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Realize oil for some cars finally fulfilled the destiny of
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: becoming a car talk.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: It's so proud of us.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I on the way back from Iowa, I watched on
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the plane Ford versus Ferrari. Have you seen that?
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is an amazing I've seen the trailer, Yeah, amaze,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the movie, the trailer.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: Oh that's good, it's not they carry it so good,
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: so good.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: But anyway, like you know, they're they're they're racing the
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours of Lama, right, and that car's got
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: it's got to last twenty four hours, right, but you
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: have to push it to its absolute limit like a
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: perfect race car. But oil, a perfect race car is
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: the car that blows up as soon as it passes
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the finish line, right, you know, because it means it's
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: got nothing left. You used everything, but it made it
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to the finish line and then it's done.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: And so like if you your body, your human body,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: you know, we we we need to get it to
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: perform and operate at its most efficient, and that does
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: mean that we have to put the right fuel in it.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: That means we do have to exercise it. We have
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: to kind of push it to its limit on a
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: regular basis in order to get the most out of it.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: So none of that changes your identity, none of it
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: changes who you are.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: It's really just enhancement exactly. Yeah. No, I really like
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: all these analogies and one other thing writer that you
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: said that I really appreciate. I mean, a we're super
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: glad to hear that you're plugging therapy and saying, hey,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I went, and that actually changed the game for me.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I think that's huge. Another thing that the writers that
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I just think it's important to shine a light on,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: even though it's not kind of the main point of
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: this question. The writer references the old question which said,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: you know, hey, my my spouse came to me and
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: said they're no longer attracted to me. And I remember
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: that question, remember that one. Yeah, it was not mean spirited.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: It was like, this sad thing has happened to me.
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: And it's a info.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: But I appreciate where the writer kind of said, Look,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I started going to therapy. I started working on my
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: mind first, and it turns out that just putting in
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: effort on myself and changing my thinking and and it
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: turns out I was depressed. I became more attractive.
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: That was so fucking valid.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Is really sexy.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: It's really sexy, And it reminded me of a stat
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: and I just double checked it to make sure I
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: got it right. There was a survey done on dating apps.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Ninety two percent of respondents said if they find out
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: the person goes to therapy, it is more attractive. It
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: is a green flag to hear that. And I just
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I love this question too because.
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: I know what to lie about on my right.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: It's right. Well, for a fee, you can say, where
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: your therapist, we'll vouch for you on the dating apps. Okay,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: you can say, oh, my therapist said I'm good with
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: dating like.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: Ten bucks a month. I feel like you're at ten
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: dollars a month.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yea.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: Then you can say per host, per host.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because if you want all four of us group therapy, you.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Know it's reverse fifty will write a letter of recommendation.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Oh easy, Yeah, I have so much nick tangement.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: Letters of our choice.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, gets a big gets a big one. It's more,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I think this person will be an excellent dog ket Yeah,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: I wholeheartedly. Yeah. So I just I really appreciate that writer,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: because like in your story, it could have been I mean,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: you said like, hey, I've lost thirty pounds, really proud
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: of that. But you said like, look I physically don't
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: really look much different, you know, And I respect that,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: but I appreciate that you said I am different. Though
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I am behaving different, I am thinking different since I've
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: started attending my mental health and that is showing up
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: in my marriage, and I really think that's cool to hear.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Can I add one more thing, because writer, I want
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: to give you credit because you are already doing the
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: thing that I try to get all of my personal
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: training clients to do. You're already doing it, which is
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that you have to look for the changes that are occurring.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Because changes occur very, very slowly. It is a slow
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned in the letter, it is a slow
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: process to get out of this. And a lot of times,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: if you are working and working, working, and you're not
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: seeing results.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: You quit.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: So everybody does that.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: But the thing is is results are occurring, but they're
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: just not obvious, you know, like you said, you lost
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: thirty pounds, then you don't really see it, but you
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: feel it. You do, and that's important, and so you
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: need to remind yourself of that. You know, you need
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: to remind yourself too, like, oh, you know, I'm noticing
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: these positive changes in my relationship. I'm noticing that I'm
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: feeling a little bit better, even small things like you know,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: when I go up the stairs at work, I don't
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: get when right, you know, like, really search out all
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: of those small things, because that's what's what we're trying
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: to do. We're trying to develop and harvest this internal motivation.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I love that point one thing I did. So after
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: i'd lost the i'd gotten I'd lost sixty total, and
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: then I kind of regressed and I got down to fifty.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: So I've kept fifty off, but like at some point
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I was feeling like discouraged, and I was like, man,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: you know, yes the clothes are different, yes there's a change,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: but like, you know, I'm unsatisfied. I haven't gotten where
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I want to get to yet. My goal is still
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: to get to one seventy five and get to my BMI.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: So I still have about twenty pounds to drop, and
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: somebody's that could be really discouraging because that fifty pounds,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: as hard as it was, this next twenty is very difficult.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Like it's just a very different situation. But one day
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I was at the gym, which I sometimes go to
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: but not often, right and while I was there, I thought,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go pick up a fifty pound weight
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: and just walk around the gym with it for a
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: second to remember what it was like and just see
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: if what what will that be like? That was very
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: important for me to do and just walking around and
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: being like Jesus fucking Christ, Yeah, this came off of
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: my body.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, walk up some stairs with it, Jesus.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And so like that's thirty pounds. Like you might
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: visually be like I don't really see it, like or
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I'm still I have a lot of work to do.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I'm unsatisfied. But I like what you said, Nick, which
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: is like you've got to force yourself to find clever
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: ways to see the progress. And for me, that was
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: a clever way for me to hold that progress in
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: my hand. Yeah.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: If you think about it, like even if you dropped
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: that weight fifty pounds in one day, you'd.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Be addicted, Like on the moon, you would literally be.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Addicted to exercise, right, that feeling that you would have,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: feeling it all at once.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be one of the greatest highs ever. Yeah.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Right, But because it happens so slowly. This is why
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: I always say, like, you know, there could theoretically, for
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: all I know, there could be a drug out there
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: that gets you high two months after you take it, right,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: But no one's ever going to abuse it, right, right, No,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: we would never know because no one it's all about immediacy,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: like the quicker you get the effect, the more addictive
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: it is.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Well and to extend your point too, This is also
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: why working on yourself in any capacity, physical or mental
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: is hard, or why so many people struggle with depression
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and it's hard for them to take that medicine every
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: day and we tell them it's gonna take two to
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: three weeks before the depression starts to wane, and they're like,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: the fuck is this? You know, trying to take a
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: pill every day for two or three weeks and then
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: wait and see if that was the right dose, and
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: keep working on this, go to therapy every week and
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: talk about my life and still like sometimes people will say,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I feel like I show up in therapy every week
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and I continue to tell you I'm depressed and you say, great,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I'll see you again next week, and they're like, fuck this,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: you know, but it is this slow trickling process where like,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: this erosion is happening and then eventually things change. But
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: you're right, it doesn't happen all at once, which is
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: why stories like this about persistence and revisiting something sometimes
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: and this goes back to addictions work stages of change
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: sometimes you're presented with a reality you're not ready. You're
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: just not ready for the change yet. And then, as
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: the writer did, eventually you come back and you revisit
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: the exact same thing that you were once presented with.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Nothing has changed except you and your readiness to now
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: follow that advice. And that's why sometimes people say I've
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: already tried therapy, nothing got better, I'll never go back,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: And that's exactly wrong, Like, no, go back Earlier you
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: wasn't ready, Now you go back.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I have there's somebody in my life distantly related that
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I've kind of had this conversation with. I haven't had
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: this conversation, but I've had the thought I've not worked.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: But I will say that I have no no, but
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: like this individual had had gone to therapy, tried it once,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: and this person needs to be in therapy and went
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: one time, did not have a good experience, and then
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: has not gone back. It was like, well I tried
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: that and I'm never gonna do it again. Yeah, And
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I just I kind of want to, like say, you
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: ever got a haircut and did they ever.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: Up?
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Was that the last haircut you ever got?
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: Well, you didn't go back to the same haircut person.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, So try a different haircut, another haircut. Yeah,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna it's not a one and done thing.
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: Wow, good analogy.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: You ever up your car? Thanks Whitney by putting a
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: whole court of oil in the gas tank. All right,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: just the last time quart of oil over the wreath.
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: Wow, I'm proud of my one analogy.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: This is what support looks like. Okay, you're just not
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: used to it because you're toxic, because you're not used
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: to masculine effect. You don't what it looks like.
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: Push you off the no hitter boys, you're.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Doing real good.
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: You're accepted.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: He's calm down when you're doing great.
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: Thanks guys. So one of the things I wanted to
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: mention was sometimes, like, uh, motivation looks different for every person.
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: Some clients I work with, like I think of one
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: in particular, they would tell me if some thing's on
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: my calendar, I'll do it. It's almost like a I
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: think that's very few people. I don't think that's majority.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: They put a bunch of it on my calendar and
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I haven't done any of it, so exactly that's me.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So yeah, that's very calendar based Okay, my life
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: revolves so interesting.
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: I don't think very many people ahay, but this one,
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: this one person, they were like, oh, I don't really
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: want to do this or that, or it's hard for me,
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: Like especially in a very depressed state, you know, when
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: you aren't motivated to do anything, like how do you
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: do the things you know they're helpful or you quote
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: should do. And in my mind for this one person,
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: they were like, you know what, I need to work
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: on this hobby that I really enjoy. I don't want to,
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: but you know what if I tell myself every Thursday
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: at six thirty to seven am, it's on there, I
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: do it. And I was like, oh, so I.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: Always I wanted to come in today. I wanted to
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: come to the turn today and get some stuff and
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: move some stuff out and pack up stuff that we're
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: not using it anymore. And I didn't feel like it, Yeah,
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: because I was out last night. I went to a
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: concert last night and we were out and yeah, all
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: that stuff, and so I woke up of how I
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: feel like going in And then like an hour later,
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: had some lunch and looked at my father. I was like,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: what don't I have on my calendar? Today, m oh,
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: go pack up the churn.
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: And yes, very calendar based. And so I say that
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: to say, like, sometimes when we take out quote motivation
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: or that internal motivation, what kind of keeps somebody going
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: to the gym or sticking with some new habit or
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: skill they're trying to improve upon. And especially when we're
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: in a state of depression, we have zero desire, damn
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: near zero desire to do something. So some people might
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: be something as simple as adding it to your calendar
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: and holding yourself to that. Sometimes for me, it's like
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: changing that mindset of that mental narrative from I'm a
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: lazy piece of ship too. You know, I'm a person
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: that goes to the gym. I go to the gym
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: four days a week. Is just one of those days,
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: And now all of a sudden, there's like a little
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: brain shift that happens there. It's small in the beginning,
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: but it's like, oh, I'm a person that goes to
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: the gym four days a week, and now I'm doing
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: it like I don't know.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I used to do the same thing working with people
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: with smoking cessation. Yep, remember this, I'm a non smoker.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I'm a non smoker.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just kind of continue, I'm a non smoker.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I don't smoke. I'm a non smoker, and you just
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: kind of you make it part of your identity as
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: opposed to a choice. If you if you leave it
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: as a choice, you're gonna choose no right, or you're
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: gonna choose whatever.
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: Is, whatever's easiest to happen, at least.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: It till you make it on the Bingo card.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's not on mine. I've got five boxes checked already.
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: Oh jesus, I've had five.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: It's a competitive game, it's very excited.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: It's gym's neurotic bingo dot com dot.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Com go for that. Yeah, but uh no, Winny, I
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: love that point, and like I like your your general
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: analysis there of Like, no, sometimes you do have to
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: fake it. Sometimes you have to like place that thought
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: over yourself or create some kind of like routine and
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: then just follow the orders, especially when you're in depression,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: as you were saying, because like with depression, you cannot
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: trust your own brain, so you just have to do
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: what you're told.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: So these thoughts, like do you feel like they just
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: kind of pop in like they're kind of what's the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: word for that?
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, popcorn. Yeah, yeah, oh like Sherry, Oh what was that?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Jacob thoughts, I don't ye.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Fathers years ago, I probably should. I think Jacob and
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Nick finally broke I doubt that. I think you bested
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: me when you finally bought that fatherly advice book and
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: gave it to me for Christmas. I still have it,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: and I I just it's funny because every time I
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: look at it, I'm just angry. But I won't throw
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: it away because it was a gift.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: It's the long burn he keeps working.
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: Man.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Every time I say it, I'm like, God, fucking damnit,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I'm so mad about that. Anyway, writer, great question. We're
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: really glad to hear the things are moving in a
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: better direction for you. Stay positive, you are good enough,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: and continue to grow and keep putting oil in your car.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: we are talking about struggling with being in a rut.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: He's got the bingo up on the screen. Now you're
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: listening to pop Therapy.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Carolyn Albert,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: sammy'sof Sarah Smith, Like Holm, Darren Cunningham, Cody the Delorian guy,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Brady Malay check or and Max the Ginger Scoop. You
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: can't have that up there.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: He's got and angry Nick up there, and then he's
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: just gonna get shut the fuck up the way.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: I need one more and I'm gonna shoot shot shot here,
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: all right, here we go.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Are you smarter than a fifth grader? O?
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Ship?
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: I hate that show?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Whitney will start with you.
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: I'm ready.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: What's the name of a group of crows?
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: A murder?
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Nice counting?
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll give you two points two crows?
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Murder?
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: Did murder?
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: Uh?
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Jim?
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: What is the only US state that grows coffee commercially
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: for you?
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: That's on this One's easy.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Columbia what sorry, the district of.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Columbia.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: That's amazing. That's where it's from.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: There's a guy with a donkey and it comes from
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: the from the district of Columbia coffee?
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: No is that?
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Because?
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: Also not a state?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's gotta be on my bingo cards, right, I don't.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: Like this game, that's okay? I got one about the
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: trivia Jacob?
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Oh one, Jacob sings on mine?
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: So can I get options?
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: No?
• 35:25
  Speaker 8: Wrong?
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Come on. Actually, right, Jacob, it goes to me right, yes, Hawaii? Yes,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, of course it's the only state that
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Why is that obvious? Don't I like that's obvious?
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: Famous?
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Coffee is very famous.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, my god, they grow pineapples and coffee.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, Jacob, Yes, what is the Roman numeral for fifty?
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: Let's see? Are there other Roman U questions? Should I
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: not do this out loud?
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think the Roman numerals from here on out?
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: I as one vs five xes ten L is fifty?
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Correct? If he would have said five xes, could that count? No,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: that's not given.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: That's not the renumeral for fifty.
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: I thought the football, like the super Bowl, was l
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: I V.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Wasn't that that was fifty nine?
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: Fifty four L four four Yeah, so its l i
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: X so she's l. I would have gone it wrong,
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: but I was close, which doesn't count.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: You were wrong in the right way, exactly, all right, Whitney,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: And uh, okay, how many sides does annagon have?
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: The fuck? It's zero. It's a nonagon at least.
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: Non agone N O N A G O N.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Donna get options?
• 37:03
  Speaker 5: I can get options, yes, okay, options?
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, eight, nine, ten or eleven? Ship zero's not on there.
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: Sorry, I was going to guess nine for fun.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: It feels right, so it's got it one point?
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Jim in geography?
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Fuck?
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: What is an is already?
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Jim?
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: He gets mad about trivia square.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: I've already done that one.
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, that's earned.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Holiday with a loose tooth. I guess.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: Fucking well, if Jacob makes it through the show, I'll
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: have Jacob.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Give me options.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Okay. Is it a narrow strip of land connecting two
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: large land areas? The peninsula a flat? No, it's not
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: like it is not a flat elevated area, a sharp
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: mountain range, or a dry riverbed.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ God damn this. So the first one is
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: not a peninsula?
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: No?
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: What is a peninsula?
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I thought it was that one. I thought it was
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: a bridge.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: A narrow strip of land connecting two large land areas.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Huh Is Florida a narrow strip connecting two large land areas?
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: Answer?
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: No, No, no, because it doesn't touch Cuba. But if
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: it did, it would be it really touches its tip. Sure,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: just the tip, just the tip. I'm gonna go with.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: How do you get like day to day. I lost
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: my doctorate in a gambling problem multiple times GM seme, scheme, predatory,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: that's what it was, Jacob Ski. All right, give me
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: the one with it's a hill.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: A flat area. No, there was one sharp mountain ridge.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: That's not it a dry river bed.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: No, I don't want any of those.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Give give me the one where I'll give you the
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: one that asked for. That's not an option.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Give me no, give me the one that I thought
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: was a peninsula. Yes, yes, that was.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: It is the longest way to get yea, let's go.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I'm on the board, Jacob.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Last one, which great lake is the only one entirely
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: within the US?
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Oh? Oh that is damn. I know this lake Mead.
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: It's a great on Saturday.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I guess gonna be options superior Michigan here on Ontario.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Bro, Michigan's a red airing. Don't take that. I know
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: where Lake Michigan is. That's the one an American state.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I got that one.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Just seems like that'd be how many.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Great lakes are there?
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Five?
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: That's what I thought. I think because I wasn't going
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: to take choices that, I was like, wait, I think
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: they're more great Lakes.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I'm getting angry.
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: Angry Nick, I.
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: Don't have angry, n I think.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I've got that one. I give myself.
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: Honestly, crazy crazy Fitness.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I checked that one.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: I thought, so, I think it's I'll say Huron, No,
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: it's Michigan. It is Michigan.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: It was curledon Canada Michigan because you got Michigan on
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: one side Illinois or Michigan's on one side Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin.
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: But you have to like go through part of Canada
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: to get certain places in Michigan.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Right, all right, for like from part of Michigan to another.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: You're thinking that, You're thinking the east part of Michigan. Yeah,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Lake Michigan is on the west side of Michigan.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: But no, never mind, Yeah, I thought it was. I
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: thought it was in that little gap like around where
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: the thumb, the thumb would be like Michigan.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: What is that, Jacob does?
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, like she you've got.
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: Down there.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I can't remember.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, fighting over a googleable fact. I'm going to go
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: ahead click that. That's just kinda happen.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Oh No, No, I was just asking.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I'm not fighting over anything. Yeah, all right,
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Jacob I don't know all my great lakes.
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: Jim mascul I have that one too.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of I'm go ahead and click on.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: Jim requires excessive agitation.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: On the bird.
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: I know he's if, I know he's going to lose it.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: That's a free space. Yeah, all right, staying motivated.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: Nope, that was the m soft.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody's free space.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Yea struggling in that happen a lot from b gay
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: do crimes. Hi, guys, I'm writing this email from a rut.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: I don't like myself right now. This is long, deal
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: with it. It's thick and rock hard too. I'm a
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: forty one year old gay man living in Israel. Oh,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: tough time to live in Israel. I've been with my
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: partner for nine years. I've been going to therapy since
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: twenty twelve or so. Been on a dose of lexapro
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: since around twenty fifteen.
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: What's that?
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: That is an antidepressant. OK started with ten milligrams and
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: then went up to twenty five milligrams during COVID.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: I'n't got a lot.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: It's about the average dose tens usually the starter dose
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: twenty Five's fine, cool. I've never been diagnosed but anxiety
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: prolonged and or intense sadness, loneliness, feelings of guilt, fluctuating moods,
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: and unstable self image are close companions of mine. I
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: stopped therapy about two years ago when I felt like
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: during most sessions things would get resolved without my therapist
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: uttering a word. I figured journaling would work well enough
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: and costs less. I was seeing a private practice therapist
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: when the war started and the shit hit the fan.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: I ended up going back to therapy. We did some
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: meaningful work, and then my therapist eventually let me know
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: he and his family decided to leave the country and
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: because of the current government, a few years or a
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: few months later, he left as planned. We spent several
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: sessions discussing his departure, how things would go, that we
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: would try ZOOM, and how it all felt. I had
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: hated doing ZOOM sessions during COVID for couples counseling with
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: a different therapist and was not optimistic, which I told him.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: After a few Zoom sessions, I decided to call it quits.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I felt remote therapy just wasn't giving me enough, and
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: it didn't justify the cost and the new time limitations
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: that he had before we parted ways. We were working
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: on the feeling that there's nobody to rely on and
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: how disappointed I feel by parental and authority figures. We
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: talked about my disappointment with my parents, my country, my
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: current and former bosses, friends and men i'd had relationships with.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Of Course, his departure mirrors the situation and brought up
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: lots of feelings. My psychiatrist wants to change my medication.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure what to do, but he's under the
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: impression that I'm not happy and stable enough. I feel, however,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: that he doesn't spend a lot of time listening to me,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: and he has nothing but my word to go on
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: and sees me once every two months. I will admit
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: that I've done MDMA and some other party drugs a
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: few times this year, knowing that it can fuck with
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: my mood. I think my overall question is what the
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: fuck do I do next? Other than start looking for
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: a new therapist and upgrade my Patreon tier, I can't which,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: by the way, both can be the same thing. I
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: think I also want to know what the fuck is
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: wrong with me. I've asked for a word several times
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: and never got one no treatment plans either, heinik. Maybe
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: because both my therapists are from the school of psychoanalysis,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: we never actually did analysis. Did I mention that my
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: previous therapist referred me to my current one when she
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: went on maternity leave. My subconscious thinks everyone, including my
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: parents and both therapists will abandon me for their other,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: more interesting family. This is getting pretty long, so I
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: guess i'll stop. I do want to say that I'm
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: very grateful to all three therapists I've worked with in
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: the past. I made a ton of progress thanks to them,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: and I'm in a much better place. It's not all
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: bad ps. I like Jim and listening to him talk
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: about ADHD for six hours is my hyper fra. Pod
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: therapy has been a big help for me this past year.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Thank you to all four of you. Remember be gay
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: do crimes?
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Well, first off, I hope you're safe, and I hope
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: everything's going well. It's pretty scary time to be over there.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: So was something going on over there?
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: I think there's h I hadn't really been much much news.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit. They've got they've got some stuff
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: going on.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I heard about some.
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: Things abandonment issues.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: That's hard and I think a lot of people can
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: experience that with therapists.
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: I feel like as a therapist, I worry about that sometimes,
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: like when there is a life change or my like
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: my schedule has to change or something like that. It's like,
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: how do you talk to a client that's been in
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: a slot? I know Jimmy said, yours bounce around a lot,
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: but like I have, probably at least half my clients
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: are a little more in a consistent slot.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: So that's interesting, right.
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: So when you're going to shift things around for personal reasons,
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: it's funny before this letter, even I do worry about that.
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, how are they going to perceive it?
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: Are they going to feel? Okay?
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe there's you have to let them go because it's
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: like there are no other slots and I'm cutting half
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: of this day away and that's it, right.
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: Half a day away. Where I'm like, oh, well, these
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: are the other options I have, So can you do that?
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: Like yeah, I think most recently I had a client.
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: I have two clients who are kind of every other week,
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: so I'm trying to fit them into one slot because
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: they're very close together, Like it could almost fit, but
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: it's not. So I mentioned that and when I was like, oh,
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: that doesn't really work for me, and that one's like, oh,
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: it definitely can't work for me. So part of me
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: is like, well, I kind of want to force that
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: a little bit more, but I like feel bad, yeah,
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: because one of them doesn't have a great rate, Like
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: it's like, oh, I have to make dinner later.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, make it work.
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: You're gonna have to make dinner later than I am not.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: I know. The other one like literally can't leave work
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: or whatever, so it's like I don't know, so I yeah,
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: I struggle with that where you kind of are pushing
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: clients into either a different uh slot, or if they
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: can't then if they really can't, like they just can't
• 47:51
  Speaker 5: meet with you, And then you're like, wow, we've like
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: worked and built this srapport and how do you transition
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: or what does that look like? I don't gosh.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean in this case too, I think it's
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: so profound because I mean the writer's therapist left the country, yeah,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: kind of for political asylum. Was sort of like, Hey,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: this country's under attack. I don't love our government. I
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: feel like I need to get out of here, and
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: it's like okay, and they tried to keep it going
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: with zoom, but it's like, well, I also respect that
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: that modality is not for everybody, And I respect bgay
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Do Crimes for saying I know myself well enough to
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: know that this isn't going to work for me. I mean,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: because it is tough, right, because I mean, I'd always
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: nudge toward like, well, it doesn't sound like not doing
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: it at all is working, so maybe we need to
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: give it the old college try. We just kind of
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: talked about that in the A block, about like sometimes
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: you weren't ready the first time you tried something, but
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: like maybe you've changed since then, and maybe it's time
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: to give it back. But having said that, I do
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: respect that forcing it whenever that modality just does not
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: work for you is a real thing. But having sort
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: of this abandonment wound already and then having to let
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: go of two therapists, it really is so hard.
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: It is I kind of want, well, first I want
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: to address is the psychiatrist. I feel like that's a
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: little like you know, Bunny Trail. For a second, most
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: psychiatrists only spend about twenty minutes. Fifteen minutes the first
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: session what I've seen is normally about half an hour, right,
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: and then yeah, every month or two you might get
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: fifteen minutes, right, and they aren't there. I think that's
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: a really big misconception that psychiatrists do therapy, right, Yeah, yeah,
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: that's what I've seen, at least like for just a plane,
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: Jane Plaine, Joe on the street. Right, they think psychiatrists
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: the movies portray this shows portray them like the chairitting.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: It's changed over the years.
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: The psychiatrists it was more therapy.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: So they used to be very trained in it and
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: that was absolutely something they would do. But as it
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: became just exclusively this medical discipline, they became the psychopharmacology.
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so I do think there was a show.
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: Ok.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Also probably has something to do with reimbursement from
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: insurance to I think it's where it's like go broke, right,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: I mean a psychia tryst. You know, they've got a
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: very they very specialized set of schull.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: They can see andree patients an hour and get reimbursed
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: two hundred dollars for every patient that they saw and
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: prescribe meds to or they can do therapy for that
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: whole hour and get reimbursed one hundred and twenty. So
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: it's not even a question they're going to get a
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars an hour and just keep shuffling people through
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: the system, right, And also like it's it's not I mean,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: they can't do it. There's not enough of them. And
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: there's actually this huge movement in the APA right now
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: to get psychiatry back to the basics of like learning psychotherapy.
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: Cool.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: It's kind of an interesting discussion because they're saying, Hey,
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: we've lost touch with this skill. We don't know how
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: to do it, and we're so out of touch that
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: we can't even collaborate with our mental health colleagues anymore
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: because all the therapists look at us like we're dumb
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: because we don't speak that language anymore. Yeah, and like
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: they've learned that, like we therapists have learned to speak psychopharmacology.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: So a lot of times the psychiatrists feel a lot
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: of the loop.
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: I do think. I think back to a friend of
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: mine when I worked at the insurance company. They were
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: at LCSW and they had considered going to school to
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: become a psychiatrist. I think they would have done great
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: in it, you know whatever. But they talked to the psychiatrists.
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: One of the psychiatrists on staff for this like major
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: nationwide company, but she had talked to them and asked like, hey,
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: what are your thoughts about getting into that field? And
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: the psychiatrists literally told her like, I don't do it.
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: They were like, I don't think it's worth it because
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: there is this weird kind of what you said. You
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: can either do therapy or you're basically a doctor. Doctors
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: prescribed psychiatric meths like to an extent, like just your
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: general practitioner. So like, where does psychiatry fit into this?
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: It's like a nurse practitioners are doing most of it. Now, Like,
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: where does the actual psychiatrist fit into this?
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: It's my doctor? Would they? First, I forget what the
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: medication was, but my doctor several years ago put me
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: on a medication and I guess one of the possible
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: side effects of this medication was depression. And so, you know,
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: follow up appointment, you know, he has this whole question
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: Genaire about you know, are you depressed with whatever. It
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: wasn't even the scale, it was more just yes or
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: no questions.
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like ten questions maybe or no. I think I
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: feel like most doctors do that. Now it's kind of
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: interesting to make go on.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: But anyway, like he was and you know, I didn't
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: have that side effect whatever, it didn't matter. But he
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: was fully prescribed or he was fully prepared to prescribe
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: an antidepressant, yeah right there to counteract the side effect
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: from the other medication.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I mean that's just that was just his
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: next The typical doctor will do it. But I appreciate
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: where Biga is saying, Hey, it kind of sucks because
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I used to have this therapist that at least collaborated
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: with the psychiatrist, and that's something that like I've I mean,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: I really like that dynamic duo. I'm great not prescribing
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: meds and you.
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: Get somebody on your team that kind of knows what's
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: going on. Well, we speak the same language.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: And I'll tell you a story really quick about where
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: the shit really mattered. I had a patient in this
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: last year who was dealing with some very severe OCD
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: and it really had a lot of co occurring things
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: going on, and this psychiatrist had been prescribing so many
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: meds and this person had gone to impatient psychiatric had
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: gotten out, was doing outpatient and was on so many meds,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: and I was like, part of the assessment, you're getting
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: all the information, like okay, what are all the meds?
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: And like I'm looking at all these like meds and
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like kind of like counting up how many different
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: ones are related to serotonin and I'm looking at the
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: dosages and like, again, I'm not a prescriber. I'm not
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: the expert. They're the fucking expert. But like, I'm really
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: passionate about learning psychopharm Like I think that we need
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: to know that we need to be competent with you.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: And I was looking at it and I was like,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I'm concerned of serotonin syndrome. But I didn't tell the
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: patient that because that's you know, I'm not going to
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: get in between them and the doctor. But I said, hey,
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: do you want to sign a release allowing me to
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: speak to the psychiatrist and back and forth like yep.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: So they did that, and once I had permission, I
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: reached out privately to the psychiatrist and I was like, hey, again,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: not not here questioning you. I just wanted to give
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: you a heads up. I'm seeing these physical symptoms in
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: this patient. They are extremely sluggish, they can barely concentrate
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: through so much an hour with them every fucking week,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, look, i am spending four hours a
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: month with this human. I'm talking to their family, I'm
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: interviewing h this is what I'm seeing. They're falling asleep
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: in the session. They're they're like they're not coherent, they're
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: like not following what we're talking about, and like these
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: are not like congruent with their symptoms. And so I
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: wrote to the psychiatrist said, hey, you know, I'm just
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: concerned it might be serotonin syndrome. I just want to
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: give your heads up because I know you don't get
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: to catch all that extra data. Here's my data, you decide, doc.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: And psychiatrist wrote me back and said go fuck yourself
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: all the way up and they were like, you don't
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: know what you're talking about. That is not your and
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm thinking, oh fuck, did I say
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: something wrong. I am so sorry, and like this person's
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: like no, they're fine, it's not serotonin syndrome. And I'm
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: like okay. And so like a month goes by and
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: the situation gets significantly worse and so I write them
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: again and I'm like, again, I don't want to say
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: that I know what this is. I trust your judgment,
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: but I want to report I am seeing this kind
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: of symptomalogy in session. I am concerned for this person.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: They wrote me back again and telling me like, you
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: do not know what you're talking about. I have triple
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: checked the scripts. We're fine, and patient goes to the
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: e er er doctor looks at the scripts, freaks the
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: fuck out and was like, Yep, this guy has serotonin syndrome.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, gets him off of everything, calls the psychiatrist
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: and goes, what the actual funck were you doing this person?
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Like there's no way that these symptoms just suddenly started.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: This sounds like it's been going on for a long time.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, god, damn, Like I was trying, Like again,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I was trying to help you.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: But that's a psychiatrist's response to that, Oh hey, thanks
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: for letting me know.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no no harm, no foul, just like, oh yeah,
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: did that happen? Darn okay, you know, and it's just
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: like and it's so tough, right it just I don't know.
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: I feel like we should talk about malpracticing little bit.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, leading it out, Okay, I was.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: Laughing at the fact that it sounds like this psychiatrist
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: could get sued for some Sorry, I was.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Not taking the episodes seriously. I thought we're still bingo.
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: No, no, I still have. I've got one left on
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: bingo that I could trigger one.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Still, I think you got to go for blackout though,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: I feel like getting a straight line is too easy. Yeah,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: that's actually I mean I could.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: I could just say one sentence and Jim would give
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: me the bingo right now.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: True, but would you be proud of yourself?
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: And that's why I.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: Haven't done it.
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: I got to earn it. Can't make it to you.
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: I want to get it before I turn forty.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I'm very youthful.
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: Not a wrinkle on there. No, I think first of all,
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: I guess I should ask, do you have like a
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: referral for a person you trust.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: As a prescriber or yeah, kind of.
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: Like one or two out there? Not really I have.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: I probably have one, which says a lot that in
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: practicing for thirteen years, there's one person and that I
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: kind of trust.
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, through like the the Novada Mental Health Associates that
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: I'm associated with. We do have like a nurse practitioner
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: that we sort of refer to, but I trust her.
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: And what I love is that I do have her
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: email and like if the client wants to sign off
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: like an ROI to share information or release of information,
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: to share that right, I love it because I feel
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: like I've gotten enough feedback from clients too that share. Okay, yes,
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: like she listened to me, she gave me good feedback.
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: We adjusted meds.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: I can check in not practitioners a lot of times
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: because they have a lot of bedside manner. They just
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: did not enter this career at that level and so
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: like they're, yeah, they spend their time. I do get
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: pissy with some of them though, because they don't build
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: for psychotherapy and they'll I've got one or two that
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: I've talked to and they're literally jamming it into their
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: thirty minute meetings so that they can go on it,
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: and I'm just like, this is dumb, Like you're not
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: trained anyway. So that's let's get back to this writer.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: So big A Do Crimes is in a war zone
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: feeling depressed. Therapists that they've been working with for a
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: long time has left. They have historic abandoned wounds. They've
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: tried to adapt and try to health model that hasn't worked.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: And so now it's this question of like where do
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: we go from here? You know, what do we do?
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: And I think it's tough because you know, they say,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: I know, you guys are going to tell me to
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: get back into therapy, increase my Patreon, which yes, you know,
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: do both those things. There's a tough one.
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: There's growth in change that happens. I think sometimes we
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: get very comfortable. This doesn't have to be a therapy,
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: can be with anything. We get very comfortable in, like
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: our golf swing and how well we're doing. Yeah, yeah,
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: we get very comfortable with where we're at and whatever
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: that is, whether it's showing up for certain clients. Like
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: that's why I love CEUs because it kind of forces
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: you to learn more about something else. Like those are
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: good things because we as humans we like to settle in.
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: We like to kind of get in a comfort zone,
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: even though it doesn't stretch us and grow us. And
• 59:05
  Speaker 5: so yeah, I think there is a struggle that can
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: come with this big a do crimes, mister, do crimes?
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: I think there is a struggle that comes with that
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: where we don't like change as humans, but also really
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: the only thing that's guaranteed in life has changed, and
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: I hate that for us, for us as human beings.
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: But trying to sort out what what is the next
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: step really just relies on what what you think is best.
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: I think it's great to maybe reach out to some
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: new therapists, see do some consultation calls, maybe a first session,
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: see if there's anyone that really fits well with you.
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: But I know that's an overwhelming task.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Well it is. But also we need to talk about
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: the m d m A. Yeah.
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, the m d m A in the room.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah you mean, Jacob, Yeah, you're doing.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing, uh.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: Be do crimes that throws a big old monkey wrench
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: in a lot of things.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: It does, like and I get it, Like I'm not
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: one that's going to sit here and scold anybody for
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: using recreational drugs. It's not my business. But I do think, uh,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: really hard focusing.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I don't want to look at it.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: I don't want to look at any of you druggies
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: focusing on my laptop.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Two are the problem. I'm the sober one, no high
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: in the parking lot.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: You do have to understand though, that that does throw
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: in a whole another layer of complexity to this Jesus
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: to a problem that's already complex. You know, you're just
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: adding not I won't even say one or two variables,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: you're adding in a ton of variable.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 5: What do you see the biggest like.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: What maybe you could describe them in an analogy format.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe oil.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Car No, it's you know, anytime you're throwing in any
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: other psychoactive substance. I mean even like you know, Jim
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: was talking about someone who's prescribed multiple substances and how
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: it was problematic. You know. Now we're talking about, you know,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: having a doctor that is prescribing something and then you
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: putting in other psychoactive substances that your doctor doesn't know about,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: you know, and that just throws in a lot.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: Do we know that the doctor doesn't know about that?
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: We don't. But I'm feel like the doctor's not like
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: adjusting their medications to accommodate for the writers md M
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: A use, you know that's the doctor.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Because speaking of serotonin syndrome, m d M A plus
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: lexapro can lead to wrap it on set serotonin syndrome.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Because what md m A is doing has to do
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: with affecting serotonin balance. So I mean, and BGA doesn't
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: say like, oh yeah, I'm doing that once a week.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: It's saying like, look, I've done that periodically. I'm owning that.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that has been disruptive to the regulation of
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: the overall LEXA pro efficacy. Yes, but I think we're
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: just kind of agreeing with you be gay and saying, yeah,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: let me let me have much oppression. Don't funk around MDMA.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: The problem is already enough to deal with. It's already
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: complex enough. I don't know if we need to add
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: another level.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: Let me ask this question, does it does use Does
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: BIGA using the m dm A make you automatically say
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: something physical has occurred because of the m dm A
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: the MDMA has has physically had an effect on you
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: and possibly continues to Right, or are you just saying
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: that adds a new layer of questions that we have
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: to ask, and we don't know the answer.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Question the latter of the first one, right, yeah, I
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: think I think biologically later or the bio biochemically.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: So you're you're speaking mainly biochemically, yes, yes, yes, okay, great, Yes,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: thank you, that would be my main concern.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: So it's not a knocking gun. I don't think the
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: MDMA causes any of this. I think the patient has
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: chronic depression, is trying a stronger, well not even that
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: big of a dose of lexapro, but is reliant upon
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: a you know, moderate sized dose of lexapro, and is
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: fucking with MDMA. Well, it just knocks over all the
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: pots in the kitchen.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like if you were going to fire
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: a bow and arrow at a target and it's already
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: difficult target to hit, and then so now you're gonna
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: be like, I'm gonna do this but while riding a horse.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's kind of the problem.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a different but.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: We're working on like getting the drip, drip drip of
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: serotonin just right in this patient's brain. And that's what
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: the lex pro has been trying.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: So this is not an issue where you're like, I
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: now have a lot more questions.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: You're saying, this is a physical issue.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the MDMA, this definitively causes a physical issue with
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 4: this medical.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: And we see this also even even off of the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: lex pro, Like you could die by combining these two things.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: But like, even if a person wasn't taking lexapro and
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: struggling chronic depression and told me that they habitually or
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: routinely or in some kind of periodic way use MDMA,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: I'm concerned at the effect the MDMA has on chronic
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: depression because every once in a while, your brain's getting
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: this weird re like bath in serotonin in these ways
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: that are not regulated. And so it's kind of like
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: the old dopamine effective Bible. Yeah, and so it's like
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: you're getting all of the happy at once, and then
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: you're paying the debt of all the sad, right, like
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: the old joke that like alcohol's borrowing happiness from tomorrow,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: it's that and so like, but it's MDMA. So it's like, fucking,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: here's a month, yeah, you know of serotonin all at once,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: and now all of your you know, shit's blown out
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: Seems like Jim knows a lot about MDMA.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Guys who.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Party with Jim. Also, I feel like if we do
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: this top golf thing, it should be you have to
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: defeat me every game. So like all I get is one, Yeah, okay,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: I get how much do you want me to beat
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: you by? Yeah, okay, you haven't been in a while.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: All right, you're rusty. I just went to top golf, dude.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: There are ways to win this game.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: That a good acause it's.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: Not going to happen exactly. If it does happen, I
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: just don't think it will.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: Damn it.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: I'm all in.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: I want to go play golf.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: I like to my last advice be gay. I do
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: want you to follow up with your psychiatrist. It's the
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: only provider you still have a connection with. And even
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: though we're teasing, psychiatry is not being very you know
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: in tuned, this is your last provider standing. Their prescriptions
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: sound correct. Those were you know, double checked by your
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: original therapists. And if they're saying, hey, look your depression
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: is growing, we need to respond medicinally, I'm telling you
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: to trust your provider. You know, I'm not going to
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: shoot on the psychiatrist. Yeah, I'm telling stories about where
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: they're wrong in therapy. I think has a place in
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: this equation. But I trust the the therapist or the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: doctor in this case, on the ground. And so if
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: that's your and they're saying, I am in charge of
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: your mental health, and I want to increase this. I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: hope you do, or I hope you will follow up
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: and follow their order.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: Is that because you've learned your lesson about sitting psychiatrists emails?
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, with advice.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: He doesn't have a good track record when talk confronting doctors.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: Never go with them, never goes well, never c Yeah
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah, that person is always.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, always. As I'm typing the email, like wiping
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: tears from my eyes. Anyway, be gay, do crimes. Thank
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: you for your long term support of this, and good
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: luck everything going. There's a lot going on, so hang
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: in your buddy, be safe. We're gonna take a quick
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: break in when we come back, we're talking about surviving
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: shared custody. You're listening to pod therapy.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Leona
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Albert, Sambi Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Houn, Darren Cunningham,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Kobe the de Loring Guy, Brady Blaycheck, and Max the
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Ginger Scoop. Would you like to sponsor the show? Become
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: a therapy Patreon dot com. Alright, so your question better
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: not this fucking geography again.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: I already got that square on.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Jim being mad about the questions in a food chain?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: What kind of organism is always at the bottom McDonald's options.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what the question is. Go on,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: Uh predator, herb of war, producer, decomposer.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: Okay, sorry, so which one's at the bottom? Future? All right?
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: Predator, herb of war producer, decomposer.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: I mean decomposer.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: No, I'm sorry, it's producer.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to steal too late.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: Jim's turn, producer, final answer.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's go.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: I think I got three points.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: Alright, Jim? What are the five type vertebrates?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: Oh oh oh uh uh mammals, uh, birds, that's two uh, fish, reptiles, amphibians.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Correct, but I needed them an alphabet, of course you did.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: That was silly, idiot, my Jim.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: I'd love to give you credit.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: I know you would.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: Would Nothing would make I won't learn if we don't
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: have to enforce the rules equally. They're the same all over? Shit?
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: Uh, Jacob, which planet is closest to the Sun?
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: I know this Mercury.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: You are correct, it's not a planet anymore. Duma energy.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: Nine pizzas. But we got to take Pluto out. Do
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 5: we do? We have Pluto.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: No, No, it's not.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: It's a.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: It's a dwarf like planetoid or something.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: I think I saw as.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: There's there's a possible there's possibly a new planet. Way,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: what's the other dog?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Not Pluto?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: Goofy, he's not.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: He's a human. He's like a human dog.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: You're you're you're arguing that Goofy is a human. Well okay,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: but that's the sentence you just say.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Just saying that Pluto and just say equally dogs, because
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: that's not true.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 4: I just said he's a dog, reservoir dog. Nobody said equal.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: You know I don't like equality.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: You know what, You're right?
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: I do know that.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: About you surviving shared custody, Hey, pod therapy peeps, I've
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: been going through a sort of custody battle for the
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: last few weeks and would really like some advice on
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: how to not lose my head through this whole ordeal.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: So currently you have custody of your head and you
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 4: would like to keep you don't want to share custody
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: of that half custody.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do my best to keep this short
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: and sweep and no promises. My ex and I have
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: been broken up for about a month now, and we
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: share a three year old son together. When she first
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: moved yours, I think, hopefully check when she first moved out,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: we came to a very basic agreement that I would
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: get our son three days a week, the three days
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: that she works, and only while she is at work.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: I agreed reluctantly with the stipulation that I would be
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: able to ask for extra days here and there. I
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: also believed her, the mom, to have the more inherent
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: right to our son, and that custody would default to
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: her and I would have to take whatever I could get.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: My therapist and anyone else I described the situation too,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: helped me realize that was just plain wrong, and my
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: son deserves to see me just as much as his mother.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: I think that was true at one point in this country,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: that it was like the mom. It defaulted to the
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: mom for a long long time. But yeah, that changed
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: quite a while ago.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: The time that I would get to see him those
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: three days total to twenty four hours in a week,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: that is one seventh of the week. My ex insists
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: the current situation is half and half and ignores anything
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: I say to the contrary. She has also made the
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: argument that his sleeping time doesn't count, which I fully
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: disagree with, but it still comes out to me seeing
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: him two sevenths of the week after accounting for that.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: To make things worse, my ex has also been accusing
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: me of doing and saying things around our son that
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: I am just not doing. For example, my mom his
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: grandma visited me and we took my son out to
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: dinner with us. We were both very careful to keep
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: the situation focused on my son and didn't once bring
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: up his mom or the situation. Why would we want
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: to taint the time we have with him?
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: And why would I Why would they even be discussing
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: the Jersey Shore at all?
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: The situation and my ex picked him up that's my
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: favorite bother.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: Discussing the Jersey Shore elevant.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: After my ex picked him up, she immediately started texting
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: asking me what we said. She's been claiming that my
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: son told her we talked poorly about her. I have
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: no idea what she could have said, and she won't
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: tell me or what. Yeah, she's been using this as
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: an excuse to stop me from seeing him more than
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: our arrangement. She says, I just make things more difficult
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: for them At his quote home, Now Father's Day is
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: coming up. I'm writing this the day before. We agreed
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: over a week ago that I would get my son
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: on Father's Day, specifically, with her replying, of course one
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: of my usual days I would see him as Saturday,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: so I assumed i'd see him both days of the weekend.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: I found out an unrelated phone call yesterday that my
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: ex thought we were swapping days and I would only
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: get him on Sunday. None of this was ever discussed.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: I only ever received the of course. I brought up
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: the original agreement that I would be able to get
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: him extra days sometimes, and she brought up my mom
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: saying that letting any extra days would I would not
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: be getting any extra days from now on. It wasn't
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: a fight worth having that much.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: Wait, sorry, the ex spouse said, because of the mother
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: in law bad mouthing. The ex spouse correct that she
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: was now amending the agreement that she would not be
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: she would not be giving that extrtisy. Yes, okay, that's
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: how I understood that.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you for clarifying. I then decided it wasn't a
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: fight worth fighting that moment, and just reluctantly agreed to
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: hand over my Saturday. Yesterday Father's Day was a rough
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: night for me. This whole situation is driving me bonkers.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: I know I'm a great father, but I'm allowing my
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: ex to convince me I'm a detriment to our son.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: It's the same reason I ultimately decided to end the relationship.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: I had to constantly convince myself I wasn't a waste
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: of space, and I was losing that battle. Now it
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: seems like it's never going to end. I'm trying to
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: lean on my friends and family much more, but I
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: still allow my ex so much control over my emotions
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: and my self image. How do I survive this battle?
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: How do I stop myself from just giving up and
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: taking what I can get? How do I deal with
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: the fact that if I want to see my son,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to deal with this lady for
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: the rest of my life. I've been trying to avoid
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: going to court because I know that we'll just add
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: more stress to all sides, and I don't want that
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: to affect my son. I just want us to both
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: be adults and do what's best for our son. But now,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: but how do we do that when we disagree so
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: passionately thanks for reading. You guys are the best. Any
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: advice is appreciated. Feel free to paraphrase. I just kind
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: of let the words flow as I type them. Also,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: I typed them on my phone, so please excuse my
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: autocorrect errors.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 4: Signed Ray J. Shark.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Well, this just happens to be the episode that we
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: brought up that for the Patreon level, we will write
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: a letter of recommendations.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know easy.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: I know those will hold a lot of weight in court.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: No, yep, I'm a doctor. Yes, judges think very highly
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: of this show.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: I think they do.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, there's so much I want to just.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Like get in there.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: Friends and custody battles with their their ex partners, having clients,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 5: and custody battles with their ex partners, being a child
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 5: who was part of custody battles with their parents. There's
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 5: so much to say here. I think for starters, I
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 5: can tell that you care very very much about your son.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 5: It's your Yeah, you got her, you care very much
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 5: about them. I'm just gonna say it, despite what Jacob's implying. Yeah,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 5: he's on the m DMA stuffed earlier. I just don't
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 5: mind them.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: Water so he claims this is a bottle of.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 5: MDMA water is not a whole thing. Like I drink
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 5: this water. It tasted funny, and they're like, oh, now
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 5: you have like I think it is in d M. A.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 5: There's like TV shows that joke about that.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: Anyway, I have no idea what you're talking about, but
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: I love it, you know.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: Because you're drinking the water that has MDM. This is
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 5: very much like a custody So this port like okay,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 5: So you care very much about your son. I want
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 5: to say that existing in that space of like what
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: really matters that at the end of the day is
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 5: your relationship with your child. When you say I don't
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 5: want to make things more difficult for anyone involved, I
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 5: know that means yourself. Maybe in some space it means
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: for your your ex, but really it's for your child.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: And let me just say, if you if you do
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 5: it the right way, if you monitor yourself the way
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 5: you have been, if that is true you are not
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 5: talking crap about your ex, if you're not bad mouthing her,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 5: and you are doing everything very authentically to like what's
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 5: in the best interest of your child, your child will
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 5: be Okay. Yeah, Like I know my parents had a lot.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 5: I knew my parents had a lot going on in
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: those custody battles. I didn't really see that directly though
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 5: there might have been some some tension, there might have
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 5: been things like that, but both parents did not like
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 5: directly bad mouth each other to me. If your ex
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 5: is bad mouthing you to that child, that's her prerogative
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 5: or their progative. Like if you know you are mining
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 5: your p's and q's, like you can know that you're
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 5: doing the right thing, and that is not your fault.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 5: There is a chance that your child will be quote
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 5: harmed emotionally by this experience. You cannot protect your child
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 5: from everything in this world, and that is okay.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: Well. And also there's also things going on that are
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: happening now, Like if the mom is bad mouthing dad
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 4: to the kid, you know that's causing emotional whatever bullshit
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: is going on. But I'm saying like there is harm
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 4: happening already. The default states like doing something that is
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 4: not doing something because it's going to cause harm, isn't that.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's a good reason of your life.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: That is which by definition harmful just unacceptable.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 4: Also, the sleeping thing is just bullshit. Of course, of
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 4: course hours, yes, that is bullshit. Yeah, because like you're
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 4: providing a safe home for that child. Yeah, those hours
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: where you're providing a safe home, that's what the judge
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: is a lot of Shenigan's going on.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 5: I feel like she has gotten in his head like
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 5: to say, oh, you deserve this or you don't deserve that,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 5: Like I'm taking them all this time, Like, yeah, she's
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 5: definitely weaseled her way.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: My viewpoint on this is you've got to go with
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: the legal route.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 4: What do you guys think you have to the legal
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 4: It'll be a pain in the gas, but it's going
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: to be a band aid and rip it off.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 5: Yes, because then you'll have something documented that you both
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 5: have to live by. And there's no like this is
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 5: half the time and sleep counts. A judge decides that.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, she's in or she's like, you know what,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: I'm putting you in time out. I don't agree with
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: your parents. I lately you gave them past ten o'clock. No, no,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: you've lost your parenting right now.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 5: And honestly I don't agree with this. But you can
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 5: talk shit about your ex all you want. That doesn't
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 5: fucking matter.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: That's your business.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 5: You still get to do that, and you'll have your
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 5: kid half the time. Again, not promoting that, but I'm
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 5: just saying in.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: Theory, but yeah, point of like, I have to shine
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: a positive light on you. I have to satisfy your
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: expectations or I don't have a anymore.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: Your your ex doesn't get to dictate your behavior in
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: your house, around your around your child.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 5: The faster you get this sorted too legally, like Jacob said,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 5: I think the better off you are because and the
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 5: better off the kid is. Yes, I was just kidding,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 5: get it, Yes, if.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 4: You can get it to a point where it's just done. However,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 4: you have to get get it there right.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 5: For For me, I was around four when my parents split.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 5: I don't even have a memory of them together. It
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 5: didn't fucking matter. My normal is them apart, and that's
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 5: fine for me. There was no damage. I mean maybe
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: there was, I don't know the alternative, but like, it
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 5: doesn't feel like any damage was done there. It was
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 5: just this is my reality. We know you, so we
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 5: know that there's a lot of differ It's in the oil.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: You're always talking about oiling cars and shit. I mean,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: you bring it up at.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 5: Me facetimeing my dad to rub it in from the Yeah,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 5: I find.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: Out how Whitney's celebrated Father's Day.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: I tried to call my dad on Father's Day and
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 3: his phone sent me right to voice.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: Make it again today too.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: I was like, I tried to call only.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: To discover he was in Jamaica. I know Faja, my faja,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: not not Jim's dark Lord, the faja, but no, my
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: real faja. Trying to call him, I'm like, where's Dad?
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: And I text my sister. I'm like, I do you
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: learn from Dad? Is he okay? She's like, he's in Jamaica.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: They as you do?
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: That is a yes. The question is Dad okay? That
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 4: is definitively okay.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: I would say there's no problem on yeah.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 4: Is that what you would say? Nick?
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 7: No?
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: Woman, that was half Jamaica, which half be the bottom half?
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: When you I got married in Jamaica, and so like,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: to get married in Jamaica, you have to be there
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: at least three days because then you're considered like a resident.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: So then after that, I was telling everybody, you're a
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: resident Jamaica resident.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So let me just throw out there anyone I
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: know with custody agreements. When there is the parents birthday
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 5: or fathers or mother's day, there's no switching. You just
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 5: get them. That's just the time, of course, just throwing
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 5: that out there.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, now I was I was ten or eleven when
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: my parents got divorced, and like I got brought into things.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: I had to like go in she in court and shit,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 4: yeah I do all that kind of shit, because that's
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: back then.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 5: Back then you could like twelve, they're like, are you
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 5: choose where you want to live?
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: So yeah, geez, we're talking late eighties, early nine.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 5: I did have a choice at one point that I
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 5: wasn't brought in.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: The court exactly.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: I don't remember it exactly being a choice either. I
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: remember it was like just like your opinion.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, just way in yeah.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: Well, and but I don't remember if my parents asked
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: me that, or if a judge asked or if a lawyer.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 4: I don't remember who who was.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 5: Let's be honest to By the time there's sixteen, like
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 5: you say the rest of your life, and yes, your
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 5: partner will say that too. Yeah, but really, by the
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 5: time I was sixteen, I was just thinking about this
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 5: the other day. I want to ask my dad this.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: I was primary custody mom. That was my choice. But
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: like at some point I was like, at sixteen, wasn't
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 5: I just going when I wanted to do? I want
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 5: to see light out? I have a car, I have
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 5: a license. I'm gonna go see I have like soccer
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 5: games every weekend.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Like I'm telling you guys what I'm.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: Up to it kind of yeah, does when I was
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 4: gonna say two, I mean because you say, like, oh,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna have to deal with my ex for the
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 4: rest of my life, Like your kid is going to
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: be an adult in a few years. The level the
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: amount that you have to deal with the other parent
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: after your kid is an adult a lot.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like my parents after after my parents got divorced,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: after my brother and I became adults and were moved out.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 4: I think the next time they saw each other was
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: at my wedding.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: I was gonna say, yeah, that's it pretty much. Yeah,
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: that's very true.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Whenever this happened.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: No, I was younger, I was ten or eleven, so
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: I think at that.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: Age they're just taking you to a park and putting
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: both parents in the grass. And then they just release
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: you and see which way you got. That's fine, Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: that's what you picked. I mean, you're jingling keys for
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: Jacob the whole time. If they did that for Jacob,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: he's just like, oh, alligators, he was raised by the swamp. Yeah,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: from all that.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: Back then, like we did the whole, Like my brother
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: and I got split up the whole.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: We don't.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 4: Like my brother and I would see each other on
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 4: the weekends because we'd go to one parent's house on
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 4: the weekend.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 5: It was always interesting to me, like one kid being
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 5: able to choose one parent.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 8: That was more.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: Oh no, we didn't get to choose them, but it
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 4: was like that's how that's just how it ended. Yeah,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: and then like my brother and I would see each
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: other on the weekends.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: Wow, oh that sucks.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, does suck.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They don't do it like that anymore, unless I do.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 5: Think there is a shift. There's a huge shift to
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 5: where even some friends of mine and this it is
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 5: what it is, that's their dad, even if they're a
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 5: shitty partner like they the dad still has a right yeah,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 5: fifty to fifty before anything until they suck it up.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 5: If they screw it up there alarm.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: The kid or something like that.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, there it is, yeah, and that and that is
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 5: up to.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: The judge, not up to your ex exactly.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 5: There's a huge shift there.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: So we should talk about out how does he deal
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: with this emotionally, because I think that's the other piece
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: that he's kind of talking about here too, is like
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: hard what one of the things that he said and
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: I kind of lost the spot where he said it,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: but basically like I'm still allowing her to manipulate, or
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: not manipulate, but cause emotional stress. Yeah, decide worth Yeah,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: and uh to that writer, this is going to sound harsh,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: but that's on you stop it. Yeah, I mean to
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: some degree, like you are allowing this person rent free
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: space in your head, you know. And it kind of
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: goes back to one of the things that I know
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: we've talked about in the show before. But you know,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: Victor Frankel, you know, one of the things that you
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: know you was talking about in his book is like
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: like the one thing that somebody else can never touch
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: is like our reaction or our our attitude.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 4: Right. I thought you're gonna say, my no, noe places.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, we've all told yeah, there's a Patreon level.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: By the way, while we're on the topic, we'd all
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: kind of like to stop.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: What the Patreon is? You pay your way out of it?
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: You are obligated to no funds. It touches you, sudech
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: just you and does you paid your way out? Jacob
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: has Premata take out.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: In Soviet Russia.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: We've raised so much money for the show in the
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: twenty four hours, it's so crazy.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: No, So anyway, writer, I think, yeah, it's one of
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: those things where and that's like, I'm not I'm not
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: blaming you for that. No, like that every single person
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: in your situation is going to be going through that
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: exact same thing. And I think it's something that we
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: all have to learn and it's a skill that has
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: to be developed. You don't, you don't start with it,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: you know, but I think you have to first. I
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: think the first step is you have to come to
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: the realization that like, oh, like people used to say
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: this to me all the time in treatment. You know,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: they'd be like, yeah, they'd be saying stuff like that,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: but they keep pushing my buttons. They're retagonizing me, They're
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: pushing my buttons. And then you're kind of like one
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: of those things where you kind of have to just
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: be like, you know, those are your buttons, Yeah, don't
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: leave them out there to be pushed. Yeah, and you
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: kind of have to start to take, you know, that
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: accountability for it and understand that like, yeah, she's doing
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: these behaviors, but I can always choose my response.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And once you start to take control of your response,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: then her ability to manipulate that just significantly drops.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: And I think that's ultimately the advice that we're hearing
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: around the table is, yeah, you probably want to take
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: action here, and you know, to step one step under,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: you know, the legal action, just to put it out there.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: A lot of families, when they're trying to co parent
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: and they're trying to avoid the courtroom, a middle ground
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: is sometimes to hire a therapist that does specialize in
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: children of divorced families and ask that therapist not necessarily
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: to be the mediator and make all decisions, but to
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: advise the couple as an advocate for the child, to say, Hey,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: my role here is I've met your son. Yeah, he's
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: only three years old. I've visited with him, I check
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: in on him. Occasionally we do a sit down all
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: together once a month, and if you have any concerns,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: you bring those up to me, and I perform as
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: the mental health expert of this triad, and I give
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: you objective feedback. And so if you know writer says, hey, look, therapist,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: I'm concerned. I see my kid one seventh of the time.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, my meetings with the kid
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: are entirely up to the approval rating of this X
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: you know wife that sucks. An ex wife can say, hey,
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: I have my concerns that he's talking shit about me.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: I think he does it in an indirect way. I
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: don't think he's trying to be loud about it, but
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: he doesn't realize that he kind of smirks and rolls
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: his eyes and that kind of shit's impressing on the kid.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: Can you advise on that? And this gives the therapists
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: a chance say, okay, great, let's talk about what's bad
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: about that. Here's what I don't want to see you
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: guys do. Here's what I do, And like the therapist
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: would probably say things like, hey, I really don't like
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: that a parent has one seventh of the contact that
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: doesn't add up, like and the other person has, you know,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: six sevenths that doesn't work. And I'm not here to
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: enforce a legal understanding. I'm here to advocate for the
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: child who can't speak about what's best for their mental health.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: They're three, right, But I am an expert and I
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: specialize in this demographic and I can be that objective
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: third party and I'm also listening to you. And also
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: that's sometimes really helpful because that therapist then serves as
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: sort of a co parenting mediator between just the two
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: of you when you have beef and it's like, hey,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: do you guys want to resolve this? Do you want
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: me to kind of do you know, couples therapy, but
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: obviously not to help you be together, but to help
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: you work together to collaborate on this.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: Kid, right, you know.
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: And sometimes it's like, yeah, I fucking resent your mother.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: I hate that bitch. I know she hates me, and
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm just grinding my teeth even knowing that
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: she's around my kid because I fucking hate her. And
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: it's like, okay, great, let's get that shit out here
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: in therapy because otherwise you're gonna pour that shit all
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: over your kid and like make it their fucking problem.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: So if that's an option too, Writer, I like that,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I don't like
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: anybody ultimately deciding what your rights are except a judge,
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: and I just I really want to just My last
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: point on this is this point about like men often
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: feeling that we are inadequate as fathers, that like, the
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: true parent of the child is the mother, and like
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: that is this default sensibility, and like I, as the dad,
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: would be harming the child to reduce their contact with
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: their mother. Of course, they should be with their mother
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: two thirds of the time. And anything I get with
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: this kid is just a gift. I'm there to take
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: them to a baseball game. I'm there to like just
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: be the weekend dad. That is an outdated thinking. It
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: has always been a myth. We as fathers are crucial
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: to the growth and development of our children. We have
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: tons to offer and and the mom is going to
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: have a different energy and a different thing to give
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: that kid, which is also essential. But so are you,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: And so, believe it or not, Writer, I believe that
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: it is in your child's best interest for you to
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: push back on these boundaries and basically argue or get equality.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: Not for you though, yes you'll benefit from this too,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: but because I trust that that is what is right
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: for your child, for them to have equal access to
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: both their parents. And if that's something you have to
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: go about legally, I encourage you to look into that.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: And if you want to play this episode for the
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 4: for the judge, no, I would encourage you to do
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: that as well.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: We will also write a letter for they.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: From the beginning.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, get the Patriots and the patriot Yeah, put a dollar,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: it's a dollar, get the Patriot skim for the judge.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: You need the judge to really get to know us, yea, yeah, yeah,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: otherwise they'll think it's all silly.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 5: Now, I agree with with Jim. I think that uh,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 5: that self confidence to show, like I know, you can
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 5: get beat down by partners sometimes especially I'm wondering if
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 5: that's probably how the dynamic was when y'all were I'm
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 5: going to assume that a little bit. So it's carrying
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 5: over into this separation and the reality is this is
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 5: your chance, in my opinion, to show your child I
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 5: did everything I could. Yeah, I mean, I hate to
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 5: put that pressure on you, and if anyone out there
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 5: didn't follow that path because that's what felt best for them.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 5: That's totally fine, But I do think there's space to
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 5: like show your kid. Look, I tried everything that I
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 5: was able to that I could within my financial, emotional,
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 5: you know, all these means that I could to try
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 5: and have a fair play. I get in time with you,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 5: and I think that goes a long way as your
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 5: child gets older. Something I want to touch on This
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 5: was a little surprising to me as a clinician. As
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 5: silly as this may sound, I had a friend some
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 5: years ago who UH was going through who was going
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 5: through divorce, and they have one child together, a preteen,
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 5: and during this time her ex spouse UH relapsed into
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 5: cocaine addiction. Okay, on paper though, what was like documented legally,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 5: what was like provable, we'll say, was that she had
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 5: a history of a d u I a decade before.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 5: So on paper it looked like she was the person
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 5: with a substance problem when she was actually the bread winner.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 5: The she's the responsible person here and the whole reason
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 5: they dive worce. She's like, I want you to go
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 5: to rehab. He refused. They divorced documented, but nothing was
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 5: ever documented, Like nobody saw him use cocaine, you know
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 5: what I mean.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: Like, it was just she's alleging.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 5: He also, yeah, you having to lose fifty pounds and
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 5: he's five eight, you know, Like what, it's fine.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: Anyway, this is so he can use that excellent melts up.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 5: I sailed to say that she is not someone who
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 5: would attend therapy before, but this was a stressful time.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 5: They had just moved to another state, all these things.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 5: She started seeing a therapist and the judge the courts
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 5: subpoena her therapist notes, I didn't fucking know that was
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 5: a thing. Let me just say, as a therapist, I'll
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 5: be really transparent. I was like, what Luckily she had
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 5: an amazing therapist, and she was like, look, the court
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 5: has subpoenaed this. This is what I'm gonna say, basically, like,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 5: this is what I'm going to share. Yeah, but I
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 5: just want to warn you and let everyone know out
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 5: there that, like, uh, when custody comes into play, when
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 5: children's safety comes into play. I feel like that damaged
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 5: her her view on what the like, it damaged her
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 5: potential relationships with therapists in the future, because her one
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 5: main experience with a therapist was that they had to
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 5: go tell the court. And she didn't know that when
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 5: she starts, so she could have said some ship that
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 5: like I don't know, maybe the therapist would have shared
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 5: with a judge or whatnot. Anyway, I just want to
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 5: share that as information. It's not to say you don't
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 5: trust therapist. What I'm saying when there is custody involved,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 5: things get really sticky icky.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have those two my advice too. If
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: anybody is out there and you might be going through
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: a divorce that involves custody and you're going to start
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: doing therapy, I still want you to do the therapy. Yes, yes,
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: let us know. Let us know that it is possible
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: a divorce could happen and maybe some custody shit. I
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: need to know that anytime there's a potential legal issue
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: down the road. I having that information so helpful. It
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: will just cause me to be very careful about what
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: I'm putting in my notes.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're going to look out for the patient.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: Obligated a kid, You're.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 5: Actually you're going to look out for Yes, right.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 4: I'm saying you want that, you want that heads up
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 4: because you want to look out for the patient.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Yeah, we just want to be very mindful
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: about what we're writing, because you know, if I know
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: that nobody else is ever going to see my no,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: it's I'm running them for me, you know. But if
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: I know a judge is going to read my notes,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: and I know a judge is not trained in psychotherapy,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: and I, okay, choose the words that are going to
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: help them understand this translating ahead of time, right, And
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: so it's a useful thing to tell us.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 4: But patient probably has a very loose asshole.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was just shocked.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 5: Bleached.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: How often were you staring at their asshole?
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: Well long quick check in an hour a week every week,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 4: not obsessively, you know, for the amount of time that
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 4: I built.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 5: It's a specific kind of therapy.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, notes, I could read my notes there anyway. Writer,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: Good luck with this. It's a very very personal story,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: and I think we're all rooting for you. Sound like
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: you really passionately love your child. I hope that you
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: will advocate for your rights. I hope that you and
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: your ex are able to reach a really healthy co
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: parenting agreement. I think that'd be wonderful for your kid.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: But I really want to echo what what Whitney said,
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: I think for a lot of men, there is this
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: martyrdom like concept that we fall into. That's like, I'm
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: just going to go to work all the time and
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: pay the bills and my kids. One day we'll look
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: back and they'll think, what a guy. He was never around.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: But you know what, he was a good guy. I
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: know he's out there doing what he had to do
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: for the family. And in my experience as a therapist,
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: when your kid grows up and comes to therapy, all
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: they remember is you weren't there. Yes, I don't think
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: thanks dad for knocking out those bills, thanks for keeping
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: the lights on. All they remember is mom was there
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: and you weren't.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 4: And sometimes that's not an option. It might for some parents,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 4: for some people, right, but what whatever life throws at you.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: I do want to push against the masculine martyrdom myth
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: because I think a lot of men comfort themselves and
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: say that's what's best for my child. And as a
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: therapist wh will eventually treat your adult child, they're going
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: to say they missed you. And so if you're at
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: that juncture right now, do not fall into that myth
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: if it can be avoided and it's all in your story.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: You could rise up and push back. I encourage you
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: to fight for your kid. I think it's what's best
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 2: for them.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 4: I really like the idea of getting a therapist advocate
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 4: for the for the child.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: Little bit of a middle ground.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, A lot of courts will do that.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: They'll assign one if they need to.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: Like that lot.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you can keep it out of the court if
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: you say, hey, let's mutually pick somebody, interview them, give
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: them the skinny, and let them advise us. So anyway,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: we are going to take a quick break and when
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: we come back, we're wrapping up the show. You're listening
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: to pob Therapy.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Le
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: Carol and Albert Samy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Helm, Jaron Cunningham,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: Cody the Delordian Guys, Brady Malayic and Max the Ginger
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: Scoop And if you would like to sponsor the show,
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: become a theraproducer at Patreon dot.
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  Speaker 2: Com slash We want to remind you that you can
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: go to patreon dot com slash therapy and get our
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: extended show add free a day earlier and enjoy our
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: live chat discord community and our weekly deep dives, interviews,
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: skill shares, research roundups and rants.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: I am uh not guaranteed, not almost never.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: In fact, I'm doing a series right now on the
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: realities of artificial intelligence, how that affects therapy, how it
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: can be used as a tool, but also getting a
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: little sci fi with it and imagining if AI becomes,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: as some people project, maybe something close to sentient, what
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: does that look like, and how does that factor into
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: questions like can that mental illness be in any conscious being?
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: And how do we deal with that? So some really
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: exciting things to play.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 3: God talk about therape machine, of.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: Course I did. I called it cyber therapy very pumped,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: so I have a whole bunch of very punny episodes.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: I'm enjoying it. A lot of people have been having
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: a great conversation about it in the discord. Come on
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: down patroon dot com slash therapy and learn a little
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: bit and think about it with me. It's a lot
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: of fun to think about. But we've got some new
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: people that have joined the therap party. Who is new
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: to the family there, Nick.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: We got two new therapods, Uh, we got Kiera Welcome
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: to the show.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: Kiera Knightley finally supporting the show, finally answered my fan letters.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, we just need Natalie Portman and then we're good.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: It's the same person.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: Oh true.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: Um and Drew Hellage, welcome back, Drew, good to have you.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: And we've also got some new producers.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: We got two new THERAP producers.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, we do.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the boardroom, Max the Ginger Scoop out time, Max, yep.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: And welcome to the boardroom, Chad, Meg.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: And there actually is a boardroom in the discord and uh,
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: you are invited to it automatically. All you other people,
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: you're not welcome the deal. We have to have elitism
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: keep societies together. We'd also like to think the benevolent, revered, generous,
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: and flagrantly pro therapy diehards who love you all so
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: much they give till it hurts the THERAP partner's dirty
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: bee and pick it. And we want to thank our bosses,
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: the mysterious and shrouded Illuminati. Members of the fan club
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: are THERAP producers. Thank you, Jake Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Junior,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: Mint Smitty Scoop, Richard fucking Macy, Judy Schneider, Malia Leon,
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: Cassab Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess Miller, Martin, Sammy Scoop,
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: Slurpy Kai, Motherfucker, Ben Stanley, Slapping your face, Sarah Smith,
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: Adam Hathaway, Builer, t Mike helm Oscar Swanrose, paris A,
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: Sonny Boy, Darren Cunningham, Lib Sandra mcwoffle Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon, Scoop,
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: Hey O, Hannah, Marie Andrew Lingmead, Emma and Tonka and
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: Pony Soprano, Alina Cody, the Lorian Guy, Brady Malaychick chick Filatio.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: We should not put those two names together. That's not
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: gonna work for me. Gabriel and Brady mulaychick Flatio. I'm
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: just gonna say yes, Gabriel and Dame, Sean Sutherland, Max
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: the Ginger, Scoop, Chad mag and Adam Warren.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: Did we announce Adam Warren?
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: We did not? Also their producer, Adam Warren, Boy? Are
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: you appreciate it? Sorry? I suck.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: If you would like to hear this episode on cut
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: in on Editing and enjoy our spontaneous side projects, go
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: to patroon dot com, slash therapy, and thank you for
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: supporting mental health.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: That's all the time I got for this week session.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: Want to thank our landlords for the time being, the
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: ice Cream Social podcast and things of those of you
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: contributed to our show today. We really appreciate it. Remember
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: pot therapy isn't something to keep all to yourself. Shore
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: the episode with the world tack us on the sol
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: shows when you do. It's not pot therapy guys on Instagram,
• 1:41:16
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• 1:41:19
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• 1:41:22
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• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: the show, you can ask anonymously.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: It's pot therapy dot net, email us at pod therapy
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: guys at gmail dot com, or click the link in
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: the episode description to be taken to our anonymous Google forms.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: I'm next tangement, I'm an oily car.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: It's time to go to to Let's go if your
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: appointment next week.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: It's not as slam dunk.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 8: This is as close to a slam dot as I
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 8: will ever get hot. You fly too close to the sun.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 8: I just want I want the two of you to
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 8: play the basic game, just the most. Whoever gets it
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 8: into the target the most times wins. We don't have
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 8: to do any thing weird.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 5: The most points by the targets.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 4: Jimmy camping lately.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: Top Golf is open till one am.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 4: Jimmy, don't camp. Fuck you up.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: That's what's gonna happen.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 7: Good.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: Actually, I don't want to hear your excuses.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: I'll go.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: I don't care ship, nothing that would work, will cancel everything.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: Any camping plans, uh yeah, nothing too close to now.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: Eventually I'm going to go back to the Grand camp.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't like where these questions
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: are going.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: Just a group of children. That group of children, yeah,
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: you know, just a group of kids of no particular associations.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 4: Okay, okay, here you go.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: Under your game.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 4: I'm counting it.