Latest / Every Church Flourishing by the Great Commission Association / Episode 24: Prayerlessness=Powerlessnes. How can Churches Develop a Culture of Prayer? Powerful stories of Prayer and Revival. + A Divisive Review of Wild Bill's Ring Pop Soda, a Soda Made by AI??

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Episode 24: Prayerlessness=Powerlessnes. How can Churches Develop a Culture of Prayer? Powerful stories of Prayer and Revival. + A Divisive Review of Wild Bill's Ring Pop Soda, a Soda Made by AI?? · Every Church Flourishing by the Great Commission Association

• 0:00
  Speaker4: I was raised to value working hard, but when you're a pastor or a church leader
• 0:05
  Speaker4: and the goal is learning to abide in Christ, today's guest, Dr.
• 0:09
  Speaker4: C.J. Wan, says there is a danger in...
• 0:12
  Speaker2: Our effort as if to say, I could replace prayer. I could replace depending on
• 0:16
  Speaker2: God by doing a lot of good work for Him. And it's a trap.
• 0:21
  Speaker2: It's a trap that many, many pastors, including myself, have experienced burnout. Why?
• 0:26
  Speaker2: Because I am doing it. I am trying.
• 0:44
  Speaker1: Leaders and pastors find health, encouragement, practical advice,
• 0:48
  Speaker1: soul care, and resources that work together to build up your local fellowship
• 0:52
  Speaker1: and the broader kingdom of God.
• 0:54
  Speaker1: Join hosts, Pastor Chris Cole and Dr. Chase Thompson from the Great Commission
• 0:58
  Speaker1: Association, led by Dr. Mike Stewart, as they explore the frontiers of ministry
• 1:03
  Speaker1: and aim for the goal of making every church flourish.
• 1:07
  Speaker4: Hello, everybody, and welcome in to episode number 24 of the Every Church Flourishing Podcast.
• 1:13
  Speaker4: We are a podcast put on by the Great Commission Association of California.
• 1:19
  Speaker4: You can get in touch with us through our website, gcasbc.org,
• 1:24
  Speaker4: and our email, office at gcasbc.org.
• 1:29
  Speaker4: Now, why would you want to get in touch with us? It's a good question.
• 1:32
  Speaker4: Here's the thing. We are looking for partners in ministry.
• 1:36
  Speaker4: And if you're a church or you're a pastor or you're a church leader in the California
• 1:40
  Speaker4: area and you feel alone and you don't have a team, we could be your team.
• 1:48
  Speaker4: So if you are out there looking and are tired of being lonely in ministry, give us a call.
• 1:54
  Speaker4: Give us an email, office at gcasbc.org. Check out our website, which is gcasbc.org.
• 2:04
  Speaker4: So if you're a pastor, church leader, anybody serious about following Jesus,
• 2:08
  Speaker4: today's show will challenge you not to try harder, but to reorder the priorities
• 2:13
  Speaker4: of your life to spend more time with God,
• 2:16
  Speaker4: trust human effort less, and prioritize listening to God over telling him what he already knows.
• 2:23
  Speaker4: After a great discussion on prayer with Dr.
• 2:27
  Speaker4: CJ, who's going to give us some practical tips on helping a church develop a
• 2:31
  Speaker4: culture of prayer, you're going to hear a severe and serious disagreement between
• 2:36
  Speaker4: myself and Pastor Christopher of the GCA, the co-host of this podcast.
• 2:41
  Speaker4: Will we debate Calvinism versus Arminianism,
• 2:46
  Speaker4: Complementarianism versus egalitarianism, or is one of us a cessationist and
• 2:52
  Speaker4: one of us a continuationist, well, it's going to be far worse and more divisive than any of those
• 2:58
  Speaker4: Our disagreement concerns Wild Bill's Ring Pop Soda.
• 3:04
  Speaker4: Well, after that divisive soda review, we will end today's episode with a couple
• 3:08
  Speaker4: of powerful prayer stories as an encouragement to all of us to pray.
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  Speaker4: But for right now, let's go to Dr. CJ Wan for part two of an interview where
• 3:19
  Speaker4: we are discussing prayer.
• 3:22
  Speaker0: And we are back with Dr. CJ Wan of the Great Commission Association.
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  Speaker0: And we're still talking about prayer and abiding and how pastors and leaders
• 3:32
  Speaker0: can not only themselves cultivate a life of prayer and pursuing the Lord and
• 3:38
  Speaker0: surrender, but also how they can,
• 3:40
  Speaker0: help their churches facilitate walking in that.
• 3:43
  Speaker0: And let's talk a little bit about Andrew Murray.
• 3:46
  Speaker0: Andrew Murray was a Dutch Reformed South African pastor of the 19th century.
• 3:52
  Speaker0: He wrote a book that was very instrumental in my life called Abiding in Christ
• 3:56
  Speaker0: that I read shortly after I got into ministry.
• 4:01
  Speaker0: He was just a pastor who lived a life of prayer and urged others to do it.
• 4:08
  Speaker0: Dr. CJ, you read a different book by him, Absolute Surrender, recently.
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  Speaker0: I'm not a good surrenderer.
• 4:15
  Speaker0: I mean, I got some strong willfulness in me.
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  Speaker0: What does Murray teach us about surrender? How does surrender work in a Christian's life?
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  Speaker2: I think what I got out of it as I was reading, it's really the first chapter,
• 4:29
  Speaker2: and there's many good devotional topics on there. But as he introduces the topic of surrender...
• 4:35
  Speaker2: Often I think we are trying to surrender. And if you just heard what I just
• 4:39
  Speaker2: said, we are trying to surrender.
• 4:42
  Speaker2: And I think that's where I was spinning.
• 4:44
  Speaker2: I'm trying, God, to surrender more. I'm trying, I'm trying, and I'm trying.
• 4:48
  Speaker2: And what brought the fresh air from me was that, you know, Andrew Murray happened
• 4:53
  Speaker2: to be saying, no, you know what? It's 100% God.
• 4:56
  Speaker2: God is providing means and ways for you and I to surrender. It's not up to us.
• 5:01
  Speaker2: It's not what we do. It's what he does.
• 5:04
  Speaker2: And so that was really the nutshell of how I felt, what I got out of it.
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  Speaker2: And I'm changing my positions on how I see. What does that mean to surrender?
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  Speaker0: So how can God help us lead a surrendered life?
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  Speaker2: Yeah, it goes back for me a long way. It goes back where I think we have learned
• 5:24
  Speaker2: to do a lot of repetitive things trying to surrender. And that might be go to
• 5:28
  Speaker2: church, pray, read Bible, do all good things.
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  Speaker2: And it's really us trying, but he's actually telling us a different ways.
• 5:36
  Speaker2: And it wasn't crazy ideas, but it was refreshing ideas. And he said this,
• 5:42
  Speaker2: God provides and really completely owns the surrender of our lives.
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  Speaker2: He's the one that's providing everything we need. And he gives five points.
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  Speaker2: And he says this, first, God expects our surrender, which is,
• 5:54
  Speaker2: that's where he starts in Proverbs 3.
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  Speaker2: Trust in the Lord with all your heart. In all your ways, acknowledge him.
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  Speaker2: And he does start there saying, hey, this is what the Lord wants from us.
• 6:03
  Speaker2: And that is, yes, he expects our surrender. He commands our surrender.
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  Speaker2: But then he goes on to talk about the second, third, fourth.
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  Speaker2: Third, second is afford. He affords our surrender.
• 6:12
  Speaker2: And he says, no one can come to the Father unless the Father who sent me draws him in John 6.
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  Speaker2: It is him who draws us, not us trying to get there.
• 6:20
  Speaker2: And it is God who works in us to will and to act, according to Philippians 2.13. So it's God who...
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  Speaker2: Calls and expects us, but he also affords us because he's the one doing the nudging.
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  Speaker2: He's the one that's actually calling us, drawing us to himself.
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  Speaker2: And then he talks about the accept. He accepts our surrender.
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  Speaker2: And this is the passage I shared on the previous one in Mark chapter 9,
• 6:41
  Speaker2: where in a boy's father, a boy with a father who came asking Jesus, he'll heal my son.
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  Speaker2: And the real answer was, I do believe, but help me overcome my unbelief.
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  Speaker2: And I think that's the surrender we do. Lord, I do.
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  Speaker2: I want to, but I know that there's places I still need your help.
• 6:59
  Speaker2: And so he understands and accepts our feeble surrender at whatever level,
• 7:04
  Speaker2: whatever we can, he accepts it.
• 7:06
  Speaker2: And he fulfills number four, our surrender. And that is Philippians chapter
• 7:11
  Speaker2: one, verse six, famous verse, being confident of this, that he who began a good
• 7:14
  Speaker2: work in you will carry it onto completion. He's the one that's going to finish this.
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  Speaker2: I'm so glad he did not leave that to me.
• 7:22
  Speaker2: He didn't leave that to chance. And he didn't say, well, let me see if I could
• 7:25
  Speaker2: get somebody else to do it. He said, no, I will carry it on to completion.
• 7:29
  Speaker2: And so he's the one that will fulfill our surrender. And lastly,
• 7:33
  Speaker2: as really he says, blesses.
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  Speaker2: He blesses your surrender. And how he blesses it is really a picture in Revelations
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  Speaker2: 3, where he says, here I am at the, I stand at the door and knock.
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  Speaker2: If anyone hears my voice and opens his door, I will come in and eat with him and he with me.
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  Speaker2: And the blessing is if we are able to just let him in, cooperate and open the
• 7:53
  Speaker2: door of our heart, he says, I will come in.
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  Speaker2: And I will be with you. And so from the start to finish, Andrew Murray was kind
• 8:01
  Speaker2: of pointing it out that from the start to finish, complete, it's him. It's not us.
• 8:06
  Speaker2: I have bought the lie or the different ideas that part of it is me.
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  Speaker2: I have to be the one surrendering. And I gave myself credit when I did one thing well. It didn't last.
• 8:17
  Speaker2: I would not do one thing, but next week I'll be doing it again.
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  Speaker2: And so this cycle, I think that's where I was trapped on a treadmill,
• 8:24
  Speaker2: just trying and trying and trying. And this actually says, no,
• 8:28
  Speaker2: it's 100% God. He is in charge of it all.
• 8:32
  Speaker0: Yeah, that's fantastic. Good, powerful words.
• 8:35
  Speaker0: I want to share an anecdote from the life of Andrew Murray that also has some
• 8:40
  Speaker0: great quotes in it about prayer, surrender, and the danger of prayerlessness.
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  Speaker0: He lived to a ripe old age. I think he died in 1917 at 88.
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  Speaker0: This story happened in 1912 when he was 83.
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  Speaker0: He was in South Africa, like I said, with the Dutch Reformed Church.
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  Speaker0: And one of their theology professors, and obviously things are different today
• 9:01
  Speaker0: than they were 100 years ago.
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  Speaker0: One of their theology professors wrote an article about the powerlessness and
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  Speaker0: the prayerlessness in the South African church.
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  Speaker0: And a lot of the pastors read the article and they were cut to the heart about
• 9:17
  Speaker0: it. So they got together.
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  Speaker0: They were so moved by this thing. They got together. So they had four theological
• 9:23
  Speaker0: professors, 200 ministers, pastors, missionaries, students.
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  Speaker0: They all got together and they kind of were like.
• 9:31
  Speaker2: What do we do?
• 9:31
  Speaker0: And so they began to kind of go through that and consider, you know,
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  Speaker0: what do we do about the powerlessness in the church?
• 9:39
  Speaker0: And they had testimonies and they talked about what's the problem,
• 9:44
  Speaker0: you know, what kind of sins are going on?
• 9:46
  Speaker0: And they began to focus in on other pastors sinning, churches not presenting
• 9:54
  Speaker0: the right doctrine, that kind of thing.
• 9:57
  Speaker0: But they got to the point where they realized they were barking up the wrong tree, essentially.
• 10:03
  Speaker0: And this is what Andrew Murray said. I'll just read a paragraph from him.
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  Speaker0: He said, the Lord led us gradually to the sin of prayerlessness as one of the
• 10:12
  Speaker0: deepest roots of the problem.
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  Speaker0: Not one of us could claim to be free from this.
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  Speaker0: Nothing so reveals a defective spiritual life in a minister or a congregation
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  Speaker0: as the lack of believing in unceasing prayer.
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  Speaker0: Prayer is the pulse of the spiritual
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  Speaker0: life. It is the great means by which ministers and lay people alike
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  Speaker0: receive the blessing and power of having persevering and believing prayer preludes
• 10:43
  Speaker0: a strong and abundant life. Yeah. That's powerful stuff.
• 10:46
  Speaker2: It is. It is. And I think because of our distractions and our attempts to do
• 10:53
  Speaker2: good work for the kingdom of God, all those are nice words.
• 10:57
  Speaker2: We miss out and we somehow commingle our effort as if to say,
• 11:02
  Speaker2: I could replace prayer. I could replace depending on God by doing a lot of good
• 11:07
  Speaker2: work for him. And it's a trap.
• 11:10
  Speaker2: It's a trap that many, many pastors, including myself, have experienced burnout. Why?
• 11:15
  Speaker2: Because I am doing it. I am trying.
• 11:18
  Speaker0: I am the fuel. And you know, pastoring, essentially at its core,
• 11:22
  Speaker0: in some ways, a leadership position.
• 11:24
  Speaker0: And therefore, it attracts people to that profession, ideally, that are called by God.
• 11:30
  Speaker0: Don't get me wrong, but it also attracts people that are not all type A personalities,
• 11:36
  Speaker0: but leaders who are used to leading and having to get things done.
• 11:41
  Speaker0: And as you say, it's a trap. It's a trap. And the high 90s percent of pastors
• 11:47
  Speaker0: probably fall into that trap all the time that I got to get this done.
• 11:52
  Speaker0: All of this rests on me. So for the pastor out there kind of feeling that,
• 11:57
  Speaker0: what are some ways that they can seek God's presence as the center of their life?
• 12:05
  Speaker2: Well, it sounds bad, but I would say stop trying. That would be the first way for you to detach.
• 12:11
  Speaker2: Start by stop trying. And sometimes we believe, whether it's directly,
• 12:16
  Speaker2: indirectly, we believe that what I do, what we do is good and it matters.
• 12:20
  Speaker2: And time and time again, we do a lot of things.
• 12:24
  Speaker2: If this year didn't work out, we'll do better next year. And if this plan doesn't
• 12:28
  Speaker2: work out, we'll go to plan, you know, 2.0. And we're very good at doing that
• 12:32
  Speaker2: as a way to solve and try to do things.
• 12:35
  Speaker2: But as Andrew Murray and others have kind of spilled into my life,
• 12:38
  Speaker2: I feel like, you know, maybe what we need to do first is just to be with God.
• 12:43
  Speaker2: And if we did that and hear his heartbeat and know who he is and how he wants
• 12:49
  Speaker2: to do and what he wants to do.
• 12:51
  Speaker2: May be very different than what we envision as success. And I think in order
• 12:55
  Speaker2: for us to reach a certain success or certain measurement that we believe is good, we do things.
• 13:02
  Speaker2: And I think that's the trap again. And I think for listeners and pastors,
• 13:07
  Speaker2: I'm not saying surrender or throw in the towel.
• 13:09
  Speaker2: That's not what I'm saying. I think what we need to do is spiritually come before
• 13:12
  Speaker2: God, broken and say, God, I'm just gonna stop trying. I just wanna spend more time with you.
• 13:18
  Speaker2: If I can't be a healthy person in front of you, What good am I on the pulpit?
• 13:22
  Speaker2: What good am I in ministry? What
• 13:25
  Speaker2: Plans can I execute that'll advance the kingdom of God.
• 13:29
  Speaker2: It's his kingdom, his work, his church, his people. And yet sometimes we believe
• 13:32
  Speaker2: we are given this amazing responsibility to grow the church of God.
• 13:37
  Speaker2: And I think that's, again, a words and word plays that we have bought into.
• 13:43
  Speaker2: Grow healthy, grow churches and other things. Yes, we would like to see that,
• 13:48
  Speaker2: but that's up to him. But will he use me to do that?
• 13:51
  Speaker2: That's also up to him. But we could definitely spend time with God and have
• 13:54
  Speaker2: him use us in ways that honors him.
• 13:57
  Speaker0: I think one of the things that sort of wages war against
• 14:03
  Speaker0: what you're talking about is we have all seen examples of churches that appear
• 14:10
  Speaker0: to thrive and explode in growth and have hundreds, thousands of people come to it with
• 14:17
  Speaker0: just pristine worship and incredible talent and people crawling all over the
• 14:24
  Speaker0: place and activities and actions.
• 14:26
  Speaker0: And it appears that I'm not speaking of every large church, obviously.
• 14:31
  Speaker0: I'm speaking of a certain subset of them that appear to be built on principles
• 14:39
  Speaker0: and business acumen and talent and things like that.
• 14:44
  Speaker0: And a pastor of a smaller or medium-sized church will look at that and say,
• 14:48
  Speaker0: well, I want to lead a church like that.
• 14:51
  Speaker0: I need to do those kinds of things.
• 14:55
  Speaker0: And Paul talks about in his letters that there will be works we do on earth
• 15:03
  Speaker0: that survive into eternity and are rewards essentially in heaven.
• 15:09
  Speaker0: And then there will be ones that burn up. And my personal thinking,
• 15:14
  Speaker0: and I'm not going to be judging any of these things, so my opinion is zero meaning.
• 15:20
  Speaker0: But I think a lot of those kind of works that are human built,
• 15:24
  Speaker0: effort powered, and talent fueled are going to be those works that burn up.
• 15:30
  Speaker0: They appear monumental and amazing. And a pastor hearing you say,
• 15:35
  Speaker0: stop trying and trust in God more.
• 15:38
  Speaker0: They're like, oh, I'm never going to build a megachurch by stopping trying, Dr. CJ.
• 15:43
  Speaker0: So I would just like to encourage the person that hears that and his flesh is reacting. I get it.
• 15:49
  Speaker0: I know why that sounds hard because it's against my wiring too.
• 15:54
  Speaker0: But some of these things that look like the kingdom of God are really Christian
• 15:58
  Speaker0: city and they're going to burn up.
• 16:01
  Speaker0: They're not the kingdom of God. They're a Potomacan village.
• 16:04
  Speaker0: They're a facade. They're not fruit that remains. Yeah.
• 16:08
  Speaker0: So let's assume we still have pastors and leaders that are tracking with us
• 16:12
  Speaker0: and want to build this culture of prayer in their church and not go the fleshly way.
• 16:17
  Speaker0: So, Dr. CJ, what are some elements that we need to see a culture of prayer in
• 16:23
  Speaker0: churches and in our own lives?
• 16:26
  Speaker0: What are the elements that kind of help produce that culture?
• 16:31
  Speaker2: Again, the prayer retreat has given us some insight into some of these elements.
• 16:35
  Speaker2: And I was blowing away my mind that why didn't I know this? Why didn't I put this together?
• 16:41
  Speaker2: We had other people who are smarter than us doing this. But it talks about three
• 16:45
  Speaker2: elements. The retreat actually talks about three elements needed for prayer
• 16:48
  Speaker2: culture in churches and Christian life. One is theological convictions.
• 16:52
  Speaker2: You certainly have to have a conviction from the Lord that this is what it is.
• 16:55
  Speaker2: Second, they talk about intentional preparedness, intentional preparation of
• 17:01
  Speaker2: in order for the conviction to become realized, there has to be work.
• 17:04
  Speaker2: There has to be intentionality. And then the third piece really crushed me and
• 17:08
  Speaker2: that is humble desperation.
• 17:10
  Speaker2: How much do you want this? Do you really want this or not? And I think God has
• 17:14
  Speaker2: a way of testing us. And I think we have fallen into the trap,
• 17:17
  Speaker2: again, of creating unsustainable things, mainly because we operate out of one
• 17:22
  Speaker2: of these circles rather than all three.
• 17:23
  Speaker2: And the idea was we need all three. We need all three to continue to work.
• 17:28
  Speaker2: Otherwise, we are gonna have a, sometimes emotional rushes, like a mountaintop experience.
• 17:34
  Speaker2: Can't be reproduced. It's not sustainable. And sometimes it just becomes ritualistic.
• 17:39
  Speaker2: We have a Bible study, we have a prayer meeting, and it becomes something that
• 17:43
  Speaker2: just is there, not filled with the Spirit of God.
• 17:46
  Speaker2: Without power, without presence, no transformation happens there,
• 17:50
  Speaker2: and without joy, on and on and on. So here's how they put it.
• 17:55
  Speaker2: And I think these are the byproducts that we have to be careful.
• 17:58
  Speaker2: And as you think about these three, theological convictions,
• 18:01
  Speaker2: intentional preparation, humble desperation, there's byproducts that happens
• 18:05
  Speaker2: if you have just two of these things.
• 18:07
  Speaker2: So this is how I understood it. I said, if you have theological conviction with
• 18:11
  Speaker2: humble desperation, what you have is unsustainability.
• 18:15
  Speaker2: Meaning you could do this crusade one time. It won't be sustained.
• 18:19
  Speaker2: You just can't do it over. Because what you're looking for is something that
• 18:22
  Speaker2: has no real preparation.
• 18:24
  Speaker2: It could be a mountain type experience, but that's just one time.
• 18:27
  Speaker2: And sometimes we sell out for that. We go on a mission trip.
• 18:29
  Speaker2: We go on a retreat, and this is great mountaintop, but then it's not sustained.
• 18:34
  Speaker2: Second part is humble desperation with intentional preparation.
• 18:38
  Speaker2: That leads to emotional things.
• 18:40
  Speaker2: If you don't have the theological conviction and a biblical conviction of what
• 18:44
  Speaker2: it is that you're trying to get to, you're going to have an emotional high.
• 18:47
  Speaker2: You're going to find yourself seeking emotional, spiritual things,
• 18:51
  Speaker2: and it becomes exciting. And you and I know sometimes a worship experience feels like that.
• 18:57
  Speaker2: It's high. It's intentional. It has hunger, but sometimes it lacks theological conviction.
• 19:03
  Speaker2: What is it? Who is the center of this whole thing? And that has to be God.
• 19:07
  Speaker2: Is God pleased with this worship? Or is it man-pleasing? Is it for drawing a crowd?
• 19:12
  Speaker2: So all of those becomes an emotional byproduct. And sometimes we buy into that.
• 19:17
  Speaker2: And that's a negative thing in my mind. And the third is, if you have intentional
• 19:21
  Speaker2: preparation with theological conviction, if that's all you got,
• 19:24
  Speaker2: what you're going to get is ritualistic events. It just becomes regiment.
• 19:29
  Speaker2: Dry, dry prayer meetings and Bible studies. Worship becomes a drag.
• 19:35
  Speaker2: Why? Because you don't have this humble desperation for the presence of God.
• 19:39
  Speaker2: Is God necessary in this prayer meeting? Is God the focus of this worship?
• 19:43
  Speaker2: Are we actually hungering after Him? Wanting more of Him?
• 19:47
  Speaker2: Are we humbling ourselves before Him? And so it takes those three things.
• 19:51
  Speaker2: And, you know, as I was thinking through it, if we are brutally honest with
• 19:55
  Speaker2: ourselves, oftentimes we just have the theological conviction.
• 19:59
  Speaker2: We lack intentional preparation, and we sometimes don't have the humble desperation.
• 20:05
  Speaker0: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Speaker2: So all we have is theological conviction. Go and make disciple.
• 20:10
  Speaker2: No question whatsoever, but how are you going to make that happen? The preparation part.
• 20:15
  Speaker2: But how are you desperately leaning on to God's power rather than ours?
• 20:19
  Speaker2: And so it leads to a place of just circle where we are either going to
• 20:25
  Speaker2: unsustainable programs or emotional programs or ritualistic programs rather
• 20:31
  Speaker2: than something that creates a culture where people are seeing a difference in
• 20:35
  Speaker2: their life, but also in the church life.
• 20:37
  Speaker2: And so those are stuff that I have learned.
• 20:40
  Speaker2: I can't speak to it as if this is mine, but those are points that we got out of the prayer retreat.
• 20:46
  Speaker0: Yeah. Awesome. And I think you're absolutely right. We have the conviction. We need to pray.
• 20:50
  Speaker0: We need to pray to make disciples. We know that, but we lack the others.
• 20:56
  Speaker0: It's like we're saying we believe help our unbelief. because there's a lot of
• 21:00
  Speaker0: unbelief there that doesn't underpin our statement that we value prayer.
• 21:05
  Speaker0: So is it your sense, Dr. CJ,
• 21:09
  Speaker0: that most of the churches in the association that you're familiar with,
• 21:14
  Speaker0: the Great Commission Association, and maybe the churches in the West in California
• 21:18
  Speaker0: specifically, I don't want to say, are we praying enough?
• 21:21
  Speaker0: Because that implies sort of we could pray two or three hours a week together
• 21:25
  Speaker0: and kind of fill the bucket. I'm not sure it's that way.
• 21:28
  Speaker0: Are we praying aright? Are we properly oriented towards the prayer life? Yeah.
• 21:35
  Speaker2: I would stand to say that I think we have missed the focus and the purpose of prayer.
• 21:41
  Speaker2: And because of that, we have not really reaped the benefit of prayer.
• 21:45
  Speaker2: And again, the goal is to be with the Lord, to spend time with Him, to hear Him, not us.
• 21:51
  Speaker2: But I think prayer often has become a time where we are telling God everything
• 21:56
  Speaker2: we need. He already knows them all.
• 21:58
  Speaker2: He knows how to best serve us in the perfect way. But we spend a lot of our
• 22:02
  Speaker2: time when we say prayer, it's really us telling God what we think we need.
• 22:06
  Speaker2: God, we have all the plans, but we need you to bless it.
• 22:09
  Speaker2: And if things don't go right, we need your help to fix our plan.
• 22:13
  Speaker2: You could see how that sounds bad. Theologically, however you put it,
• 22:17
  Speaker2: that just doesn't sound right.
• 22:19
  Speaker2: And so I would agree to that statement that sometimes many of us in churches
• 22:23
  Speaker2: and pastors and leaders have adopted the idea that prayer is really about us
• 22:28
  Speaker2: telling him. But I think it's the opposite.
• 22:30
  Speaker2: Prayer time is just we listening, us listening to Him.
• 22:34
  Speaker2: I have to be the first to admit I am not trained in this.
• 22:37
  Speaker2: I don't quite know exactly how to do this well and very uncomfortable being in quietness.
• 22:43
  Speaker2: As Psalm 49 would say, hey, be still and just know that He is God.
• 22:47
  Speaker2: Well, we don't know and want to spend that time because it just becomes awkward after five minutes.
• 22:52
  Speaker2: Let's just be honest. I think that's true with many of us. We just don't know
• 22:55
  Speaker2: what to do by just spending time with God.
• 22:58
  Speaker2: And if we feel like, how am I going to spend time with God is just say a lot
• 23:02
  Speaker2: of things. And I think that's really where the miss is.
• 23:05
  Speaker2: And I think our God is dying, bad word. I think God is desiring to speak to
• 23:11
  Speaker2: us, to be with us, to tell us he loves us, tell us that everything is going
• 23:15
  Speaker2: to be okay. To say, I have a better plan for you.
• 23:18
  Speaker2: Great plan. You can't even fathom what I'm going to try to do.
• 23:21
  Speaker2: We don't give him the time and we're not listening. And so, yeah,
• 23:24
  Speaker2: so when it comes to that topic of prayer, I think we have jumped off on the
• 23:29
  Speaker2: wrong end where we made it into us talking to God.
• 23:33
  Speaker2: It should be us listening to him. Yeah, wow.
• 23:36
  Speaker0: That's awesome. So I imagine people listening right now, their consciences are
• 23:41
  Speaker0: poked and prodded and their heart hopefully is lifted up and drawn towards this,
• 23:49
  Speaker0: reorientation of their lives in the direction of prayer and understanding prayer
• 23:54
  Speaker0: is not just talking and telling God things and asking for things.
• 23:58
  Speaker0: So those leaders that are listening, how should they start? Where should they
• 24:03
  Speaker0: start in this reorientation process on prayer?
• 24:08
  Speaker2: The same few words I would say, you just have to come to a place where you're
• 24:12
  Speaker2: saying, Lord, I'm just gonna stop and I'm just gonna be with you.
• 24:15
  Speaker2: And that's just creating a time and space. I don't know how many times I have
• 24:19
  Speaker2: said that to myself. I have to create time and space for God.
• 24:21
  Speaker2: And, you know, you say, well, all my life is God's. No, not necessarily,
• 24:25
  Speaker2: because you're not giving it to him. You're actually taking control of a lot of it.
• 24:28
  Speaker2: You have to be intentional of giving time and space for God to do whatever he
• 24:33
  Speaker2: wants to do. And you don't just say, well, you have my time,
• 24:36
  Speaker2: God, between 8 and 8.30. You have to be willing to say, Lord,
• 24:39
  Speaker2: you could have all the time you want or you need.
• 24:42
  Speaker2: Because we should be willing to say, Lord, this time I spend with you is the
• 24:47
  Speaker2: most important thing. It's the most important thing I can do or I have to do today.
• 24:52
  Speaker2: But again, distractions and urgencies and other things get in our way.
• 24:55
  Speaker2: So I think practically, if we could start just by saying, you know,
• 24:59
  Speaker2: Monday afternoons or Monday mornings or Tuesday nights are going to be just
• 25:04
  Speaker2: time with God and turn off your phone, stop the TV and just be outside or be
• 25:09
  Speaker2: With the scripture and just.
• 25:10
  Speaker2: Just spend time and stay there until the Holy Spirit sets you free.
• 25:15
  Speaker2: Now that sounds crazy. It sounds like, what do you mean?
• 25:19
  Speaker2: Well, you will know if you are willing to listen and sit in the presence of
• 25:23
  Speaker2: God, he will do what he wants to do.
• 25:26
  Speaker2: And he will tell you pretty clearly, hey, time is done and go attend to your things.
• 25:31
  Speaker2: And I'm learning how to do this. And I wish I would have learned this when I
• 25:36
  Speaker2: was in the 20s and 30s so that I would have a different way of approaching ministry
• 25:40
  Speaker2: in life because just being with the Lord is most important rather than me trying and trying harder.
• 25:47
  Speaker2: That alone, I think, carving out some time and space to be alone with God. Try it.
• 25:54
  Speaker2: It will be difficult at first, but I think you will be able to meet and be in
• 25:59
  Speaker2: the presence of God in a fresh new way.
• 26:01
  Speaker4: Yeah.
• 26:02
  Speaker0: Amen. Well, before we get to our final question, which is about prayer resources,
• 26:08
  Speaker0: I want to tell a quick story that happened this past Sunday at our church,
• 26:11
  Speaker0: Valley Baptist in Salinas.
• 26:13
  Speaker0: Last year, it's a good church. Good people. Love the people there.
• 26:16
  Speaker0: Last year, I tried to start a pre-service prayer gathering for a few weeks.
• 26:22
  Speaker0: I announced it. I emailed it, texted, got there early and met in one of our side rooms.
• 26:28
  Speaker0: And I think maybe the most people, and now we've had prayer things at night
• 26:33
  Speaker0: and other times that people come to, but this one, it didn't go over very well.
• 26:37
  Speaker0: Maybe the most we had was like three people. And just speaking frankly,
• 26:41
  Speaker0: finally, I just kind of gave up and we didn't do it anymore and I didn't make a big deal out of it.
• 26:46
  Speaker0: Well, my son, JC is a ministry student at Cal Baptist and full of zeal.
• 26:53
  Speaker0: And he's home for the summer. And he's like, dad, we got to get the people to
• 26:56
  Speaker0: pray and get them together. And he has all these fiery ideas.
• 27:00
  Speaker0: And I'm like, all right, bud, let's, let's do it.
• 27:02
  Speaker0: So he led his first prayer time this past Sunday before service.
• 27:07
  Speaker0: And I thought, you know, he's going to be two or three people there.
• 27:09
  Speaker0: He'll probably be bummed out.
• 27:11
  Speaker0: Well, there were like 12 people there.
• 27:13
  Speaker0: And I looked around. And part of my sarcastic self wanted to say to them,
• 27:18
  Speaker0: hey, where were you guys last year when I invited you like 10 times?
• 27:24
  Speaker0: My son says one thing and you show up in here. So I felt a little goofy about
• 27:28
  Speaker0: it. I didn't say anything. But later that afternoon, I told that to my wife,
• 27:32
  Speaker0: Janet, and I said, hey, it's like I almost wanted to be sarcastic with everybody.
• 27:37
  Speaker0: And she said, you know what JC did? And I'm like, no, what did he do?
• 27:41
  Speaker0: She said, he went around before it started and individually invited like 15
• 27:47
  Speaker0: people to come pray. And they did.
• 27:50
  Speaker0: And I was like, you know what? I put it in the bulletin. I announced it from the pulpit.
• 27:55
  Speaker0: I emailed and texted, but I didn't do that. So that was,
• 27:58
  Speaker0: I say all of that story to say that,
• 28:03
  Speaker0: some people will respond to a personal invitation into a life of prayer more
• 28:10
  Speaker0: than they will respond to an announcement in a bulletin or from the pulpit.
• 28:14
  Speaker2: So personal.
• 28:15
  Speaker0: Yeah, personal. So I think, Pastor, if you've heard all this and you're sparked,
• 28:20
  Speaker0: and I hope you are, I hope the Holy Spirit is moving in your heart.
• 28:24
  Speaker0: I want to encourage you to reach out to people individually and personally and
• 28:28
  Speaker0: invite them to join you on this journey of pursuing the Lord.
• 28:33
  Speaker2: You know, just an interesting fact that we learned is if you want to create
• 28:38
  Speaker2: a cultural prayer, at least these people that have done it at Fournier,
• 28:43
  Speaker2: Texas, says, you know what you need is 16% of your people.
• 28:46
  Speaker0: 16.
• 28:47
  Speaker2: 16% of the people. If you have that, it could do the math.
• 28:51
  Speaker2: If you have that, it'll start to create a culture of prayer.
• 28:55
  Speaker2: So you don't need 50% or you don't need 80% to show up. You just need 16% of
• 29:00
  Speaker2: your congregation, you know, to come and start.
• 29:03
  Speaker2: And I think once you do that, it becomes something that will become a culture
• 29:08
  Speaker2: of prayer. And so good news, you know, maybe happy news that you don't have to try to hit 70%.
• 29:13
  Speaker2: You don't have to try that. Just work towards, as you said, invite 15 people.
• 29:18
  Speaker2: That would be more than 16%. If you have that, then it becomes a culture. It becomes normal.
• 29:25
  Speaker2: And people are going to say, hey, something is happening over there.
• 29:28
  Speaker2: And so they would love to be part of that.
• 29:30
  Speaker0: Fantastic. Great advice.
• 29:32
  Speaker0: So one last question before we get to our closing quotes.
• 29:36
  Speaker0: We already talked about this on previous podcast episodes, but I don't think
• 29:40
  Speaker0: we can talk about it enough.
• 29:41
  Speaker0: What are some resources, writers, blogs, books, sermons, any kind of thing in your life that
• 29:51
  Speaker0: helps you have a healthier prayer, surrender, abiding life that you would recommend to our listeners?
• 29:58
  Speaker2: Oh, boy. There's obviously many that's out there, but I'm just going to list
• 30:03
  Speaker2: some of those that are recent. I would say Absolute Surrender by Andrew Murray.
• 30:07
  Speaker2: I think that'd be very helpful. Just open your eyes to just devoting and being
• 30:11
  Speaker2: with the Lord and surrendering.
• 30:13
  Speaker2: The Pursuit of God by A.W. Tozer.
• 30:16
  Speaker2: Again, what does that mean to really want to pursue God? And not to have Him
• 30:21
  Speaker2: do our bidding, but really wanting Him.
• 30:24
  Speaker2: Old Path, New Power by Daniel Henderson. I mentioned that in the last podcast as well.
• 30:28
  Speaker2: That has changed me to see prayer not just as an activity or program,
• 30:32
  Speaker2: but really for us to do this as a way of life and to experience new power,
• 30:37
  Speaker2: the power that God has and wants to do in and through us. And so that's important.
• 30:41
  Speaker2: I would say for those that may be having a hard time finding the words to talk
• 30:46
  Speaker2: to God or be with God, for me, I'm using this collection of Puritan prayers
• 30:51
  Speaker2: edited by Arthur Bennett,
• 30:53
  Speaker0: The Valley of Vision.
• 30:55
  Speaker2: Just walking through. And it's helping me to see and ask for prayers and to pray that.
• 31:01
  Speaker2: Words that I can't, I'm not eloquent enough to put together.
• 31:04
  Speaker2: Yet praying that it becomes a poem, it becomes a prayer, it becomes a meditation
• 31:09
  Speaker2: and a cry from my heart. So that would be another.
• 31:11
  Speaker2: Other devotionals and books by Bill Ellis, if you have not read any of his work, I think you should.
• 31:17
  Speaker2: It's very helpful. And they have changed how I view prayer, but not just prayer,
• 31:23
  Speaker2: but how I want to be with the Lord.
• 31:27
  Speaker2: And so I hope people don't just try to learn how to pray.
• 31:31
  Speaker2: That's one of many ways for us to try to get to the presence of God.
• 31:36
  Speaker2: And if we're with the presence, in the presence of God, then boy, he can do all things.
• 31:41
  Speaker0: Amen.
• 31:41
  Speaker1: Amen.
• 31:42
  Speaker0: I will throw out one that I have not read yet, not in full, but it's on my upcoming list.
• 31:49
  Speaker0: It Happens After Prayer by H.B.
• 31:53
  Speaker0: Charles. And here's a great quote from that book. He says that prayer is arguably
• 31:58
  Speaker0: the most objective measurement of our dependence upon God. Think of it this way.
• 32:05
  Speaker0: The things you pray about are the things you trust God to handle.
• 32:09
  Speaker0: The things you neglect to pray about are the things you trust you can handle on your own.
• 32:15
  Speaker2: Amen.
• 32:15
  Speaker0: Yeah. That's strong. That's strong. Well, in closing, do you have any favorite
• 32:21
  Speaker0: quotes on prayer like that to share with us?
• 32:24
  Speaker2: I would say quote on prayer. I'm not sure if this is going to qualify as a quote
• 32:28
  Speaker2: on prayer, but I have a, I written up a note on my desk next to my desk,
• 32:33
  Speaker2: a phrase that I pulled from Emotionally Healthy Leader by Peter Scazzaro.
• 32:38
  Speaker2: And he reads this way, and I think I've paraphrased some, but quote it this way.
• 32:43
  Speaker2: Am I grateful for the privilege of representing Jesus and have a level of influence
• 32:48
  Speaker2: in the lives of other people? Am I
• 32:51
  Speaker2: Am I grateful or, and this is a part that cuts me, or do I resent people treating
• 32:57
  Speaker2: me like the servant I claim to be?
• 33:00
  Speaker2: And I think I'm in the middle there. I'm cut to the piece where,
• 33:03
  Speaker2: you know, I say I'm a servant of God.
• 33:06
  Speaker2: I'm serving for the kingdom of God, for the churches, people that he has placed
• 33:10
  Speaker2: in my life. So one, am I grateful?
• 33:13
  Speaker2: So that's a prayer. Lord, help me keep my heart tender so that I'm grateful that I could serve.
• 33:19
  Speaker2: The second part is the challenge. I do find myself getting resentful or frustrated
• 33:25
  Speaker2: and, you know, being critical at times of people.
• 33:29
  Speaker2: Why? It usually comes down to how I feel like I'm being treated.
• 33:32
  Speaker2: Am I being treated, recognized for what I do, or am I being appreciated?
• 33:37
  Speaker2: On and on. And really, the second part of that quote really hits me hard,
• 33:41
  Speaker2: and that is, I am a servant of God, and I am doing what I say I am.
• 33:46
  Speaker2: But why is it that my heart is resentful at people? And so those two things
• 33:50
  Speaker2: put together, I call it the power struggle indicator of my heart.
• 33:54
  Speaker2: Yes, Lord, I am fully grateful. And sometimes I'm not.
• 33:58
  Speaker2: And that's a check I got to do. The other part is sometimes I'm just resentful, frustrated, critical.
• 34:04
  Speaker2: Well, that's another check I got to do because I want to be a servant of the Lord.
• 34:09
  Speaker2: And I can't continue to have this power struggle have its way in my life.
• 34:14
  Speaker2: Being grateful, not being resentful.
• 34:16
  Speaker0: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. I will add to that a quote from Edward Payson,
• 34:22
  Speaker0: whose nickname was Praying Payson of Portland.
• 34:26
  Speaker4: But I think it's Portland,
• 34:27
  Speaker0: Pennsylvania, not Portland out our way. He says, prayer is the first thing,
• 34:32
  Speaker0: the second thing, the third thing necessary to a minister. Pray.
• 34:37
  Speaker0: Then my dear brother, pray, pray, pray.
• 34:41
  Speaker2: And more, yeah.
• 34:42
  Speaker0: Amen. Good counsel. Well, Dr. CJ, thank you so much for your time.
• 34:46
  Speaker0: If somebody wants to get in touch with you, they can go to the GCASBC.org website
• 34:52
  Speaker0: where you will find Dr. CJ there, GCASBC.org.
• 34:57
  Speaker0: I think we've had a wonderful conversation on prayer. I know my heart is poked
• 35:01
  Speaker0: and prodded and pulled and hopeful about walking in the,
• 35:07
  Speaker0: In a life that recognizes the reality of abiding being crucial and not my own
• 35:18
  Speaker0: power being the fuel that,
• 35:21
  Speaker0: leads my church, my family, my life.
• 35:24
  Speaker0: So thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for pointing us that way.
• 35:27
  Speaker0: Good day and Godspeed to you.
• 35:29
  Speaker2: Thank you.
• 35:30
  Speaker4: It almost seems sad to go from that very encouraging word on prayer to a potentially
• 35:35
  Speaker4: explosive and very divisive soda review. But that is what we do here.
• 35:40
  Speaker4: We drink the wild and wacky sodas so you don't have to.
• 35:44
  Speaker4: Maybe, like me, you will feel compassion for Wild Bill, maker of today's soda,
• 35:49
  Speaker4: when you hear Pastor Christopher unfairly criticize him for his soda's description by saying,
• 35:56
  Speaker4: as if adding adjectives would improve its quality.
• 36:00
  Speaker4: Well, fortunately, this will be just a brief intermission. After a few minutes
• 36:04
  Speaker4: in a very short soda civil war, we will go back to the deep end and finish up
• 36:09
  Speaker4: with some great prayer stories.
• 36:11
  Speaker1: Okay, we are back for another excellent soda review. Well, I think it's going to be good...
• 36:18
  Speaker1: Pastor Christopher O'Ye of Little Faith, what do you expect out of this?
• 36:24
  Speaker3: Well, given that this soda has the words Ring Pop, Watermelon,
• 36:29
  Speaker3: and Craft all in its title, as if adding adjectives was going to improve its quality,
• 36:37
  Speaker3: I'm going to say that I have relatively low expectations from
• 36:42
  Speaker3: Wild Bill's craft beverage company, and it features a prominent green ring pop
• 36:50
  Speaker3: on there, but it also says it's naturally flavored.
• 36:54
  Speaker3: I'm curious, Pastor Chase, how did we come upon this particular soda?
• 36:59
  Speaker1: This was also chosen for us by our friend of the show, Pastor Jason,
• 37:04
  Speaker1: who is here live in studio with us today, and who also chose the bacon soda
• 37:08
  Speaker1: we recently had, and who said, it's not that bad, guys.
• 37:13
  Speaker3: He did. He did say that.
• 37:15
  Speaker1: So I don't think he's crazy he's a great neighbor but i don't know i wonder
• 37:20
  Speaker1: about the bacon soda take
• 37:22
  Speaker3: Well and it says it's a limited edition a limited edition soda probably
• 37:27
  Speaker1: Would be watermelon ring pop
• 37:30
  Speaker3: And it uses pure cane sugar it's gluten-free i think they are trying to make
• 37:35
  Speaker3: you really appreciate the soda
• 37:39
  Speaker3: And on the back, it says, ah, sweet life, which really just solidifies for me
• 37:46
  Speaker3: that this is going to be mediocre at best.
• 37:50
  Speaker1: Well, Pastor Christopher, let me ask you a question. What city were you born in?
• 37:54
  Speaker3: I was born in Asheville, North Carolina.
• 37:56
  Speaker1: Well, I thought you might have said Moscow or St. Petersburg or something.
• 38:00
  Speaker3: Okay.
• 38:01
  Speaker1: With your anti-ring pop, anti-watermelon take.
• 38:06
  Speaker1: You know, I was thinking maybe you're a comrade or something.
• 38:09
  Speaker1: I mean, this even has a Western horse guy on it. This is an all-American beverage, brother.
• 38:16
  Speaker3: That's sort of my point. I mean, I'm like looking at it. It's like all extra.
• 38:20
  Speaker3: Like everything is like extra, extra.
• 38:23
  Speaker1: It's a pick me, girl. It's a try hard.
• 38:25
  Speaker3: Yes, yes. It's like it can't rest in the sufficiency of the soda.
• 38:31
  Speaker3: On a recent podcast, we did all the thing about the sufficiency of scripture.
• 38:34
  Speaker1: Yes, yes.
• 38:35
  Speaker3: This is not trusting in its sufficiency of flavor. This is like,
• 38:39
  Speaker3: we've got to sell this somehow.
• 38:41
  Speaker3: We made XYZ number of thousands of gallons of it. We've got to get it out there.
• 38:47
  Speaker3: And so we're going to just like send it over to marketing and let an AI generate the campaign for it.
• 38:53
  Speaker1: Oh, buddy, it might have done that. I see some signs of this.
• 38:57
  Speaker1: And I will say it's ingredients, carbonated water, cane sugar.
• 39:00
  Speaker1: Cane sugar, that sounds good.
• 39:02
  Speaker1: Got 170 calories for the can
• 39:05
  Speaker3: It's not for
• 39:06
  Speaker1: Dieters no and or diabetics we're gonna have to get our blood sugar tested afterwards
• 39:11
  Speaker1: if we drink it all okay the bacon soda also had 170 calories and we only had
• 39:17
  Speaker1: a little bit pastor jason had a lot of it i hope he's gonna be okay
• 39:21
  Speaker3: We do hope he makes it home
• 39:22
  Speaker1: Yeah okay i think it's probably time to taste this okay or at least smell it
• 39:29
  Speaker1: It's green.
• 39:29
  Speaker4: What is that?
• 39:30
  Speaker0: It looks radioactive a little bit.
• 39:32
  Speaker3: Like a bright green. Bright green. Brighter than Mountain Dew.
• 39:36
  Speaker1: It's got a strong smell.
• 39:38
  Speaker3: Very.
• 39:39
  Speaker1: Apple? Is that apple? No, it's supposed to be watermelon. I smell apple. It smells good.
• 39:43
  Speaker3: Well, you had high hopes for this, brother. So let me just say,
• 39:47
  Speaker3: best of luck to you. Amen. Let's go.
• 39:49
  Speaker1: To grace and optimism. I love it.
• 39:52
  Speaker3: How do you talk me into these things?
• 39:55
  Speaker1: I love it. You don't like this?
• 39:57
  Speaker3: You love this?
• 39:58
  Speaker1: This is like candy in a can, man. I feel like a fourth grade boy, man. I would
• 40:03
  Speaker4: Kill this in
• 40:04
  Speaker1: Elementary school.
• 40:05
  Speaker4: It's way too sweet for adult Chase,
• 40:07
  Speaker1: But fourth grade Chase loves this.
• 40:11
  Speaker3: I'm pretty sure a second grade me would have liked this.
• 40:14
  Speaker3: But when I thought all things sugar, it's very, very sweet.
• 40:20
  Speaker3: I don't get a lot of watermelon flavor. No, I don't either. It does have kind
• 40:24
  Speaker3: of an Apple-esque, like an Apple Jolly Rancher, but not the Watermelon Jolly Rancher.
• 40:31
  Speaker1: Nope.
• 40:32
  Speaker1: It's not quite apple, and it's certainly not watermelon.
• 40:36
  Speaker3: It doesn't taste like hubba-bubba.
• 40:38
  Speaker1: No, no, no. It says naturally flavored. You might be right.
• 40:41
  Speaker1: This might be an AI, like maybe an earlier version of ChatGPT,
• 40:46
  Speaker1: maybe ChatGPT 3.5. They plugged in, hey, make a watermelon soda.
• 40:51
  Speaker1: And it was like, okay, here. Here's one.
• 40:54
  Speaker3: Okay, now wait a second. I did just have like my third taste.
• 40:57
  Speaker3: And it could be that I'm now delusional from the sugar.
• 41:00
  Speaker1: Your blood sugar is spiking.
• 41:02
  Speaker3: But it does have a little bit of a watermelon flavor as I just let it rest on
• 41:07
  Speaker3: my tongue here as we do the proper taste testing.
• 41:11
  Speaker1: Well, the flavor of watermelon in and of itself is difficult.
• 41:16
  Speaker3: Are we talking about artificial watermelon, like watermelon candy flavor?
• 41:19
  Speaker1: No, I'm talking about like the fruit watermelon.
• 41:21
  Speaker3: Oh, this definitely doesn't taste like a watermelon.
• 41:23
  Speaker1: No, no, not a fruit. Yeah, it's a difficult to describe kind of flavor.
• 41:28
  Speaker3: The Lord would not have made something that tasted like this.
• 41:32
  Speaker1: He may not have. He may not have. Whatever AI made this, I think this is pretty good.
• 41:39
  Speaker1: Other than the high sugar content, and I have a rule, I try not to get my sugar through drinks.
• 41:45
  Speaker3: Where's this mate, by the way?
• 41:47
  Speaker1: Let's see. Millington, New Jersey. That's part of America, isn't it?
• 41:52
  Speaker3: Well, is any part of New Jersey really in America? If you're listening to this show in New Jersey...
• 41:58
  Speaker3: We do apologize for those comments just made by our host here.
• 42:03
  Speaker1: Well, it's obviously got a New Jersey cowboy on the front of it. Right.
• 42:07
  Speaker3: How many wild bills do you know
• 42:12
  Speaker3: in New Jersey?
• 42:13
  Speaker1: And four of them live in Millington. So I guess that's where it comes from.
• 42:17
  Speaker1: Yeah. Man, that is a green soda.
• 42:19
  Speaker0: I wish we had a glass to pour this into.
• 42:21
  Speaker4: It is really bright.
• 42:23
  Speaker1: Yeah. It says...
• 42:24
  Speaker3: It's brighter than our background here, if you're watching the video.
• 42:27
  Speaker1: Yeah. It has yellow number four and blue number one in it and sodium benzoate,
• 42:34
  Speaker1: which probably is not good for you.
• 42:36
  Speaker3: That's a preservative though, I think, right?
• 42:38
  Speaker1: Yeah, it is.
• 42:39
  Speaker3: So that our insides are being preserved. It does have sort of the same color
• 42:43
  Speaker3: of green as, you know, like coolant.
• 42:46
  Speaker1: It looks a lot. That's it. It looks a lot like antifreeze. Yeah.
• 42:50
  Speaker3: Yeah. Like you're looking at car antifreeze, like we're drinking antifreeze.
• 42:54
  Speaker3: Yeah. Are we sure that we are not drinking antifreeze?
• 42:57
  Speaker1: Well, you know, dogs really like antifreeze. It's a deadly poison to them.
• 43:01
  Speaker1: Right, exactly. So maybe this is a trick. Maybe this is AI's way of getting
• 43:05
  Speaker1: us, is we're going to make this Ring Pop crazy flavor, and this is going to take us out.
• 43:12
  Speaker3: I would not give this to my friends. I wouldn't wish it on my enemies either.
• 43:18
  Speaker3: I'm going to have to go with on our Spurgeon scale. For me, this is going to be a pretty solid 1.
• 43:26
  Speaker3: Maybe a 0.5. Oh. I'm just not, yeah, I wouldn't.
• 43:31
  Speaker3: I mean, we've had some good sodas on here, right? Like some really drinkable
• 43:35
  Speaker3: things, some refreshing things that just like you go, man, that's refreshing, it's enjoyable.
• 43:41
  Speaker1: Yeah. So there was the 1054 East West schism and then, you know,
• 43:46
  Speaker1: reformation that kind of split the church.
• 43:49
  Speaker1: Is this, you and I agree on a lot of things. Is this going to be our separation here?
• 43:54
  Speaker3: Are you going to give this like a five spurge?
• 43:56
  Speaker1: Five is strong. I would say, how about three and three quarters?
• 44:01
  Speaker1: No way. I would drink this, man. This is good.
• 44:03
  Speaker3: Would you drink this? Would you pass this out at a party at your house?
• 44:07
  Speaker4: I think I would.
• 44:08
  Speaker3: Okay.
• 44:08
  Speaker1: Maybe even a four. I think my kids would like this. I almost want to take it.
• 44:13
  Speaker1: I'm an hour away from home, so it would be kind of flat.
• 44:16
  Speaker3: And JC's done some of our soda tastes. He has, yeah. Yeah. So you might want
• 44:21
  Speaker3: to give him some of this to try.
• 44:23
  Speaker1: Yeah.
• 44:24
  Speaker3: But I want to believe that JC has a more refined palate than this.
• 44:28
  Speaker1: Maybe we'll find it. This is one we'll have to have a follow-up.
• 44:31
  Speaker1: We're going to have to bring in some more opinions to settle this.
• 44:35
  Speaker3: This great debate.
• 44:36
  Speaker1: Yeah, this quick debate.
• 44:38
  Speaker3: All right, let's do it.
• 44:39
  Speaker1: Okay, we'll convene the church and have a church council on this.
• 44:42
  Speaker1: Let's do it. Like the Acts council. Like the Nicene council,
• 44:46
  Speaker1: council of Constantinople. This will be the fourth, the Wild Bill council.
• 44:50
  Speaker1: This will be the fourth major council of the church.
• 44:54
  Speaker1: So stay tuned for our announcement when that council is going to come up,
• 44:57
  Speaker1: and your church can vote to send representatives to it.
• 45:01
  Speaker3: That's right.
• 45:02
  Speaker1: Let's do it. Cheers.
• 45:03
  Speaker4: Well, hey, you may not be able to find this soda, but we would love to hear
• 45:07
  Speaker4: your opinion on Wild Bill's Craft Watermelon Ring Pop Soda.
• 45:12
  Speaker4: Is Chris crazy or am I? Well, let's close out with some deep prayer talk. I want to share with you
• 45:18
  Speaker0: A couple of.
• 45:20
  Speaker4: Prayer stories, one from a ministry hero of mine, George Mueller,
• 45:25
  Speaker4: and one about the businessman's prayer revival that happened in the late 1800s.
• 45:31
  Speaker4: So George Mueller was a guy who was German-born and lived in Bristol,
• 45:36
  Speaker4: England, and he wanted his orphan ministry
• 45:40
  Speaker4: to say something very specific to the world, that trusting God was not a merely
• 45:47
  Speaker4: empty religious talk.
• 45:49
  Speaker4: And he lived that out by not taking up offerings for a mission that would ultimately
• 45:57
  Speaker4: look after like 10,000 orphans.
• 46:01
  Speaker4: But even though he didn't take up offerings specifically, like he never mentioned needs.
• 46:07
  Speaker4: They never did like a special crusade or whatever for the orphans where George
• 46:12
  Speaker4: Miller would preach and then they would take up a special offering or anything like that.
• 46:16
  Speaker4: But he didn't want the children neglected. He made the deliberate decision to
• 46:21
  Speaker4: pray to God instead of solicit money personally for the needs of the orphan houses.
• 46:27
  Speaker4: And some days that particular strategy made things very interesting.
• 46:33
  Speaker4: And we know a lot about George Mueller and the day-to-day operations of the Orphan Center and
• 46:38
  Speaker4: And his prayer life because he was a meticulous journal keeper.
• 46:43
  Speaker4: In one February journal entry, Mueller wrote that there was no money in hand.
• 46:48
  Speaker4: We were waiting upon God. The orphan homes needed bread. More than 100 people
• 46:54
  Speaker4: depended on it at the time. It was smaller than it ended up being.
• 46:58
  Speaker4: And they had zero money. Well, I say zero.
• 47:03
  Speaker4: There was two shillings and nine pence that they had in their account to buy food for everybody.
• 47:09
  Speaker4: And by late afternoon, Mueller went to the girls' orphan house to pray with the people.
• 47:15
  Speaker4: And it turns out a box had arrived from a place called Barnstaple.
• 47:19
  Speaker4: And it contained money, shoes, socks, fabric, books to sell, and jewelry.
• 47:24
  Speaker4: But the most immediate story had already unfolded inside the homes.
• 47:28
  Speaker4: They had been waiting for dinner, waiting to eat.
• 47:32
  Speaker4: And a woman came in and bought one of Mueller's books and gave three extra shillings,
• 47:38
  Speaker4: which was not a lot of money.
• 47:40
  Speaker4: But five minutes later, the baker came by the boy's orphan house and the woman
• 47:44
  Speaker4: who had sold the book used that extra money to buy extra bread.
• 47:48
  Speaker4: And by the close of the day, the gifts that were in that donated box,
• 47:53
  Speaker4: including the jewelry, allowed Mueller to give the matrons of all the houses a fuller supply of food.
• 48:00
  Speaker4: The answer to the prayer for provision did not come in one big theatrical kind of movie moment.
• 48:09
  Speaker4: It came in lots of small gifts, ordinary people, the surprise arrival of a box
• 48:16
  Speaker4: from another town with things in it that could provide food.
• 48:19
  Speaker4: A book purchase, and several other things. And if you know the story of George
• 48:23
  Speaker4: Mueller a little bit, you know that there was many times in the life of him
• 48:28
  Speaker4: and the orphans that they took care of where
• 48:31
  Speaker4: they would begin the day praying and not have any food,
• 48:35
  Speaker4: and God would provide and take care of them.
• 48:38
  Speaker4: Psalm 37, 25 says, I have not seen the righteous forsaken. And George Mueller's
• 48:45
  Speaker4: life is an excellent example of that.
• 48:48
  Speaker4: And if you want to be encouraged in your prayer life, let me point you to the
• 48:51
  Speaker4: journals of George Mueller, which you can find on Amazon or Logos and various places like that.
• 48:57
  Speaker4: Fantastic reads to learn about becoming a man of prayer.
• 49:02
  Speaker4: Well, speaking of man in prayer, similar time frame, but in the United States
• 49:07
  Speaker4: of America in lower Manhattan in
• 49:10
  Speaker4: 1857, a man named Jeremiah Lanphier felt led to begin a prayer service in the
• 49:18
  Speaker4: North Dutch Reformed Church on Fulton Street in Lower Manhattan.
• 49:23
  Speaker4: This was on the third floor of that church. Lanphier was not a famous preacher.
• 49:27
  Speaker4: It was a small church. He was a former businessman who was sort of a lay missionary in that church.
• 49:36
  Speaker4: The church had kind of fallen off because the neighborhood was changing around it.
• 49:40
  Speaker4: The people who worked downtown often lived elsewhere, and the church was shrinking and shrinking.
• 49:46
  Speaker4: And Lanphier had been visiting the people around the church and inviting them
• 49:51
  Speaker4: to come to church, but very few of them did.
• 49:53
  Speaker4: So he tried something pretty radically different. He tried launching a noonday
• 50:00
  Speaker4: prayer meeting for business people
• 50:03
  Speaker4: who worked. And he posted a notice that invited people to come pray.
• 50:09
  Speaker4: It basically said prayer meeting from 12 to 1 o'clock.
• 50:13
  Speaker4: Stop by for 5 or 10 or 20 minutes or the whole time as your time admits.
• 50:18
  Speaker4: The plan was prayer and a few hymns, no preaching. I don't even think they did
• 50:22
  Speaker4: prayer requests or anything like that. And at noon, Lanfear was alone.
• 50:26
  Speaker4: Like 10 minutes passed, then 20, then 30 minutes.
• 50:30
  Speaker4: Nobody came for 30 minutes. that must have been discouraging, but he waited.
• 50:36
  Speaker4: He kept praying. Finally, he heard footsteps come up the stairs, and one man arrived.
• 50:42
  Speaker4: By the end of the hour, six people had come and prayed together.
• 50:46
  Speaker4: The next Wednesday, he tried again. Twenty people came. Then after that,
• 50:51
  Speaker4: there was more than 30. Soon, that little prayer meeting became daily.
• 50:56
  Speaker4: Then they went through an economic crash.
• 50:59
  Speaker4: In 1857, the panic hit. Banks failed, businesses collapsed, and all of New York
• 51:05
  Speaker4: City was basically just terrified. This was like one of the early Wall Street
• 51:10
  Speaker4: kind of crashes, and that did not
• 51:13
  Speaker0: Hurt the prayer. It helped the prayer.
• 51:16
  Speaker4: These little prayer gatherings grew from a few dozen people to hundreds,
• 51:20
  Speaker4: and multiple rooms were needed, and soon other churches and places opened their
• 51:25
  Speaker4: doors for similar things.
• 51:27
  Speaker4: Daytime meetings. And by the spring of that year,
• 51:30
  Speaker4: just like a little over a month or two later, there was 10,000 people at least
• 51:36
  Speaker4: gathering for prayer every day across at least 20 New York churches and YMCAs.
• 51:43
  Speaker4: And that pattern spread beyond the city through the United States, even into Canada.
• 51:48
  Speaker4: And they called it the businessman's prayer revival. Contemporary reports described
• 51:54
  Speaker4: crowded meetings, people coming to Jesus, and people just prayed.
• 51:59
  Speaker4: Acts 4 31 says when they had prayed, the place was shaken, and Fulton Street
• 52:05
  Speaker4: didn't begin with an earthquake that we know of. It began with one guy who was
• 52:10
  Speaker4: sitting by himself and didn't give up even though
• 52:13
  Speaker4: Nobody came for the first 30 minutes. Eventually people came and those few people
• 52:18
  Speaker4: praying God used to not only rock the city of New York, but to rock the entire
• 52:24
  Speaker4: country of the United States and Canada and beyond that as well.
• 52:28
  Speaker4: Let me close out with an update on Great Commission Association news.
• 52:32
  Speaker4: There is a great article I've linked on our website in the show notes to this
• 52:36
  Speaker4: episode at everychurchflourishing.com, everychurchflourishing.com.
• 52:42
  Speaker4: It's called Loving the Lost by Dr. Chris Smith, whom we had on the show a few episodes ago.
• 52:48
  Speaker4: You can get that either on our website, everychurchflourishing.com,
• 52:52
  Speaker4: or the GCASBC.org website.
• 52:56
  Speaker4: And I want to spotlight a church plant that's part of our Great Commission Association of Family.
• 53:01
  Speaker4: It's the Afghan-American Church, pastored by an Afghan-American named Mike Z.
• 53:07
  Speaker4: It's a church plant through the GCA. Its mission is to reach the Afghan immigrants
• 53:13
  Speaker4: that live around the Fremont area, which is one of the largest groups of Afghanistan
• 53:18
  Speaker4: people in the entire United States of America.
• 53:21
  Speaker4: That church wants to continue to grow into a strong community of worshipers
• 53:26
  Speaker4: and proclaimers of the one true God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
• 53:30
  Speaker4: So please pray for the Afghan American church in Fremont, for God's work in
• 53:34
  Speaker4: the hearts and minds of that community through their regular outreach programs, which include a
• 53:40
  Speaker4: kid's soccer camp and other things like that, and a backpack giveaway coming up.
• 53:45
  Speaker4: Pray for God to break through the spirit of fear in the Afghan community so that
• 53:51
  Speaker4: the church can be fruitful, the gospel can be heard, and those many,
• 53:55
  Speaker4: many Afghanis that live in the Fremont area can hear the gospel and have the
• 54:00
  Speaker4: freedom to seek the truth and for the truth to set them free.
• 54:04
  Speaker4: All right, well, thanks for listening today. Back next week with Gateway Bay Area Seminary Head, Dr.
• 54:12
  Speaker4: Cameron Schweitzer. We had a fantastic conversation with him,
• 54:17
  Speaker4: And we will see you next week. Good day to you, and Godspeed.