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History's Most Ridiculous Clothing, with AJ Jacobs: Part One · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's uh, this is a special
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  Speaker 1: one for us, Noel. Let's start by as always commending
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  Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max tally Ho Williams. That's mister
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  Speaker 1: Noel brown Day.
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  Speaker 2: I don't have a tricorn hat on THO films.
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  Speaker 3: Most people don't, I think statistically, I guess that's true.
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  Speaker 1: That may be a fad that has uh temporarily waned.
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  Speaker 1: I am Ben Bullet and Noel, you and I were
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  Speaker 1: talking a while back about some of our favorite guests.
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  Speaker 1: We were talking about some of our favorite things to explore,
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  Speaker 1: and one name kept popping up. H and Max you
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  Speaker 1: were you were talking with us about this as well.
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  Speaker 1: It is the legendary the infamous AJ Bahamas Jacobs, as
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  Speaker 1: the FBI is want to call them.
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  Speaker 3: I don't understand, and neither do you AJ, and neither
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  Speaker 3: will you Ridiculous Historians. But that's okay, because that's what
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  Speaker 3: makes a really good mysterious nickname.
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  Speaker 2: Have you been to the Bahamas?
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  Speaker 4: I have been to the Bahamas.
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  Speaker 2: That's that's it.
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  Speaker 4: I don't want to say anymore of what I did there.
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  Speaker 2: But uh, what happens in the Bahamas stays in the boom.
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  Speaker 1: There you go.
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  Speaker 4: I am honored and delighted to be back and uh
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  Speaker 4: and have this mysterious nickname and have my tricorn hat.
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  Speaker 4: No judgment against Noel or Max for not wearing the tricorn.
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  Speaker 2: But I just don't even know where one procures such
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  Speaker 2: a garment.
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  Speaker 4: Well mine, I had to go order it online like
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  Speaker 4: a fancy one because those.
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  Speaker 1: One was technically sideways. Okay, oh dear, there we go.
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  Speaker 2: There you go. Now you're very Brotherhood of the Wolf
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  Speaker 2: the course, thank you? Is it felt? What is this material?
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  Speaker 2: It looks like a real robust material.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, the real the old ones were made of beaver
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  Speaker 4: felt beaver So I don't know one felt a beaver there.
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  Speaker 1: Very carefully damn it.
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  Speaker 4: Yes so, but I think mine is just yes, regular
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  Speaker 4: old non beaver material. I don't know what about Ben's,
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  Speaker 4: but I got mine from a colonial style haberd dasher
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  Speaker 4: that I went ye old internet and found.
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  Speaker 2: They probably do a lot of reenactment business.
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  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, that's where that's right. This is from
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  Speaker 4: when I joined the Third New Jersey Regiment of Revolutionary
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  Speaker 4: War re Enactors. This was part of my required kit,
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  Speaker 4: as they call it.
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  Speaker 1: As part of your journey in the creation of your work,
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  Speaker 1: the year of living constitutionally. That's correct.
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  Speaker 4: What you all were delightful enough to come to my
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  Speaker 4: book party about a year ago, and we, uh, we
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  Speaker 4: had a good time. We had some we burned some candles,
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  Speaker 4: We wrote with the quill pens. We had muskets, we
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  Speaker 4: can wielded muskets. We had some mead or actually I
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  Speaker 4: think it was uh, what is that? What did we have?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, mold wine wine. No, it was.
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  Speaker 1: Now we have to say a j First off, you're
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  Speaker 1: one of the busiest guys we know. Thank you so
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  Speaker 1: much for coming on the show with us. For anyone
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  Speaker 1: who is somehow unfamiliar with this, you are a podcaster
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  Speaker 1: as well. You have an excellent show called The Puzzler.
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  Speaker 1: Before we get into our exploration today, could you tell
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: us a little bit about The Puzzler and just maybe
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  Speaker 1: some family time. What's been going on with you, how
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  Speaker 1: your folks, et cetera.
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  Speaker 4: Well, thank you for asking. Yes, The Puzzler is a
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  Speaker 4: podcast produced by iHeartMedia, and we have celebrity guests such
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  Speaker 4: as Oh my gosh, Noel Brown and Ben Bolin And.
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  Speaker 3: No one's ever called me that before in my life.
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  Speaker 3: How dare you, sir? I am anonymous.
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  Speaker 4: You called me legendary, so well, I'm alive.
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  Speaker 2: That's accurate.
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  Speaker 4: And we play basically, we play some word games, nerdy
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: word games with them, and we did some history ones
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  Speaker 4: with both of you. I believe we had, for instance,
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  Speaker 4: a character who had no idea. He knew the names
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  Speaker 4: of historical events but didn't know what they were. So
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  Speaker 4: he talked about one where it was a beret uh
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  Speaker 4: and a a bottle of white wine that went around
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  Speaker 4: in circles, and that's the French Revolution.
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  Speaker 1: There.
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  Speaker 4: There is still no pun left behind, as they say
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  Speaker 4: on so this our puzzle podcast, really no pun left behind.
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  Speaker 4: So that's good and uh oh. The only other exciting
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  Speaker 4: well I shouldn't say that. One other exciting thing is
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  Speaker 4: my son next year is going to Emory uh University.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm I mean, you're gonna come visit, You're gonna hang.
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  Speaker 4: I'm going to be hanging in Atlanta. Would you'll be
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  Speaker 4: sick of me?
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  Speaker 3: You let it take you to our Atlanta equivalent of
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Barney greengrass, it's called it's called Goldbergs. It's not quite
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  Speaker 3: as good but as solid. Would you say, guys, would
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  Speaker 3: you say it's pretty good? It's I would say no, Barney.
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  Speaker 1: Head and I great, hard true, but it's it's a
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  Speaker 1: nice way. And you know, we were again we were
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  Speaker 1: chatting about you singing your praises and said, when's the
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  Speaker 1: last time we had this guy on the show. What
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  Speaker 1: would aj want to talk about? And we pitched a
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  Speaker 1: couple of ideas to you, like a well three or four,
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  Speaker 1: which is more than a couple. And then you wrote
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  Speaker 1: back to us and you immediately said, ridiculous clothing, fads,
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  Speaker 1: controversy of fashion throughout history. I have some thoughts indeed,
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  Speaker 1: and maybe we started this way because you are also
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  Speaker 1: what we call our research associate for our exploration here.
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  Speaker 1: Since we're wearing hats, could you tell us a little
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  Speaker 1: bit like hats are a functional thing, but they also
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  Speaker 1: become quite they can be quite flamboyant. They can be
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  Speaker 1: quite a statement more so than a like a piece
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  Speaker 1: of functional gear.
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  Speaker 3: Everything about that, guys, like the moment the person that
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  Speaker 3: came up with the idea, where like you know what,
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  Speaker 3: maybe this maybe this could be more. Maybe I'll put
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  Speaker 3: a feather in it, and all of a sudden, I'll
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  Speaker 3: be a fancy.
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  Speaker 4: Man, right, And there is a whole thing about the
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  Speaker 4: feather and the macaroni and Yankee doodle. And yes, I
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  Speaker 4: have always shocked when I see photographs from like the
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  Speaker 4: nineteen twenties and every man and most women are wearing hats.
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  Speaker 4: And I believe JFK had a lot to do with
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  Speaker 4: getting rid of that trend because he went hatless. And
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  Speaker 4: I don't know. I know you have a conspiracy podcast
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  Speaker 4: as well, but I'm wondering if anyone has ever posed
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  Speaker 4: that the Haberdashers of America were the ones who were
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  Speaker 4: most angry at JFK for ruining their business. I don't know,
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  Speaker 4: it's just the thought. Big hat, Yeah, big hat exactly.
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  Speaker 4: But yes, the hats are and they have an amazing history.
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  Speaker 4: And what I decided to focus on in my research
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  Speaker 4: were controversial clothes, so literal crimes, literal fashion crimes, and
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  Speaker 4: clothes that led to UH laws or rebellions or reform
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  Speaker 4: or riots. There are several riot clothing based riots, So
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  Speaker 4: hats are a good way to start, you know, start
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  Speaker 4: at the top.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. Work our way down to the sock.
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  Speaker 2: That's it.
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  Speaker 4: I do have some shoe related not so much suck.
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  Speaker 3: It's okay, Well there's a shoe, there's a sock, hopefully
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  Speaker 3: unless you're an animal.
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  Speaker 1: Or wearing flip flops. But also Atlanta is the home
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  Speaker 1: of flip flops and socks.
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  Speaker 2: So much talk about a statement piece.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that could cause some some riots. I know.
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  Speaker 3: It's like when people saw the rights of Spring, you know,
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  Speaker 3: and they just freaked out.
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  Speaker 1: They couldn't handle it. So let's I love, We're going
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  Speaker 1: a little bit matt cap. Perhaps nobody left behind, thank you, sir.
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  Speaker 1: Let's start, as you said at the top, you found
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  Speaker 1: in your research that there were quote bird hats that
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  Speaker 1: started the environmental movement.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, they helped to kick off the animal rights and
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  Speaker 4: environmental movement because this was in the late eighteen hundreds,
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  Speaker 4: and women loved their feathered hats. They loved these fancy
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  Speaker 4: parrot feathers, egret plumes, herons, birds of paradise, and they
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  Speaker 4: were very expensive. It was hard to get them. Egret
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  Speaker 4: plumes were worth twice their weight in gold. And then
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  Speaker 4: they decided, well, feathers are good, but why not just
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  Speaker 4: go for it and put the whole bird on top
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  Speaker 4: of the hat. There were Taxa Dirmy. Women would wear
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  Speaker 4: these taxa dermied full birds, owls, egrets right on top
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  Speaker 4: of their head and it's insane. If you google the images,
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  Speaker 4: it is bizarre.
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  Speaker 1: It's like the.
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  Speaker 2: Full hat, but also been bird hats.
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  Speaker 4: Around the neck. They would have a bird around the wrist.
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  Speaker 4: So it was a huge status symbol. But there were
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  Speaker 4: a couple people who found it a little offensive because
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  Speaker 4: they were killing literally five million birds a year to
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  Speaker 4: get these hats. So there were these two women who
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  Speaker 4: were society women in Boston, Harriet Heminway and Minna now
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  Speaker 4: I'm looking Blackmair last name. They started a group in
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  Speaker 4: nineteen oh five, the first Audubon National Audubon Society, was
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  Speaker 4: to fight against these hats and they it took off.
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  Speaker 4: It struck a chord, and ten years later they were
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  Speaker 4: able to get a law passed, or five years later,
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  Speaker 4: the Audubon Plumage Law that protected birds from the depredations
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  Speaker 4: of the plume industry. As one source put it, and yeah,
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  Speaker 4: it was it was fascinating to see that this was
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  Speaker 4: what kicked off the Audubon society, which then became a
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  Speaker 4: major player in the environmental movement.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, the National Audubon Society here in the States
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  Speaker 1: is still, as you said, very much active, right, And
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  Speaker 1: I think that is a bit of hidden history, the
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  Speaker 1: idea that you would see this wholesale slaughter of avian
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  Speaker 1: life to have people wearing look and I don't want
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  Speaker 1: to sound like a jerk, you guys, I might I'm
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  Speaker 1: shallow enough that I might have a different opinion if
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  Speaker 1: the hats did not look.
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  Speaker 2: As goofy as they do.
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  Speaker 1: Like, if they looked cool, I might say, yeah, hear
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  Speaker 1: us out.
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  Speaker 3: You know, well, yeah, it's kind of come full circle,
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  Speaker 3: and now there are bird hats that are actually meant
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  Speaker 3: to preserve avian life, in the form of the quite
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  Speaker 3: bizarre falcon sex hat.
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  Speaker 2: If you remember about.
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  Speaker 1: This, it's key for falconry. It helps endangered birds reproduce.
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  Speaker 1: It's actually one of the primary reasons you might remember
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  Speaker 1: I was talking about this few years back. You might
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  Speaker 1: remember it's one of the reasons that I am not
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  Speaker 1: an out active falconer because the hat is the hat
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  Speaker 1: helps the birds reproduce by having you know, their human body,
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  Speaker 1: their falconer wear it and the bird flies onto the
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  Speaker 1: hat and mounts it, and he insiminates the hat.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to read a little quick blurb here
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  Speaker 3: from a falconer on Reddit or a short explanation of
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  Speaker 3: why this is the thing. He says.
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  Speaker 2: I don't get it either.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know hat. I didn't know hats could get what.
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  Speaker 3: Happens to the insemination, like it just hangs out in
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  Speaker 3: the hat. By the way, the hats are silly looking.
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  Speaker 3: They're sort of rubberized, little gritted.
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  Speaker 1: They look like they have suction cups on them.
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  Speaker 4: Kind of silly to you, but super hot.
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  Speaker 1: They're super hot. Ten no notes say the falcons yep.
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  Speaker 3: Falcons, as a reddit or tree Tree nineteen eighty four
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  Speaker 3: puts it, are often imprinted on humans for various reasons,
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  Speaker 3: so basically, they're sexually attracted to people. Breeders take the
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  Speaker 3: reverse role of whatever sex the imprinted falcon is and
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  Speaker 3: play out the courtship ritual, including bows and chirps and
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  Speaker 3: presenting food. If you've never seen birds mate, the male
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  Speaker 3: climbs on top of the female and then they rub
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  Speaker 3: Kloika's Humans obviously don't have that hardware. But after courting
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  Speaker 3: the male birds will still try to get on top
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  Speaker 3: and do his thing, hence falcon breeding hats. This is
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  Speaker 3: the reason I stopped wanting to be a breeder. Hope
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  Speaker 3: this was informative.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: For more information, check out Daily's eye geis from a
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  Speaker 1: few years back, because that was I think that's a
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  Speaker 1: surprise to a lot of people who are getting into falconry.
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  Speaker 1: But as as you found AJD the concept of controversial hats,
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  Speaker 1: I love the I love what you set up there
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  Speaker 1: and all that, that cycle of hurting birds and then
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  Speaker 1: helping birds. But we know that hats have also led to,
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  Speaker 1: as you so beautifully foreshadowed aj absolute chaos in the streets.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I love the falcon breeding hat,
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  Speaker 4: so thank you for that. I will never forget it.
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  Speaker 1: Watch out, so one's birthday is on the way statistically
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  Speaker 1: all the time.
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  Speaker 3: Why would you do that to Age's fair enough?
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if you're aware I mentioned this from
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  Speaker 2: time to time.
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  Speaker 1: I have.
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  Speaker 3: I have long running fear of birds, so the idea
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  Speaker 3: of the taxidermy bird hat is particularly important to me.
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  Speaker 4: All right, scratching it off your Christmas list right now?
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  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: One of the most memorable hat history happenings. Hey, I
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: don't know alliterations. You love that habit daring, do habitashery
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  Speaker 4: or daring?
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  Speaker 2: Don't you know? It's up to you.
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  Speaker 1: This was the.
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  Speaker 4: Straw hat riot of nineteen twenty two. It's just such
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  Speaker 4: a bizarre and delightful well not delightful for the people involved,
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  Speaker 4: but looking back, it was just so bizarre. New York
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  Speaker 4: City Society had this rule that you should stop wearing
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  Speaker 4: straw hats. Straw hats were for the summer, not for
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  Speaker 4: the fall. And these are the flat top straw hats,
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  Speaker 4: sort of boaters, sometimes called yep.
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  Speaker 3: It was a little band of fabric around them, usually
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  Speaker 3: right exactly.
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  Speaker 4: And there was actually a day you were supposed to
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  Speaker 4: stop wearing September fifteen was called felt hat Day, okay,
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  Speaker 4: And if you wore your straw hat after that, you
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  Speaker 4: were opening yourself up to some real trouble because there
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  Speaker 4: was a trend this was in the early nineteen hundreds
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  Speaker 4: of people they would knock your straw hat off your
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  Speaker 4: head and stomp on it.
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  Speaker 3: Guys, there is nothing more offensive than someone, even in jest,
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  Speaker 3: pulling knocking your hat off of your head. It is
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  Speaker 3: what the drag community would refer to you as having
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: your wig snatched off. It is an act of violence,
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  Speaker 3: no matter how it occurs and what spirit right.
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  Speaker 4: And then they got a little more violent, like as
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  Speaker 4: it reached its height in nineteen twenty two, people would
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  Speaker 4: they would not only knock the hat off, but then
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  Speaker 4: they would beat the crap out of you for wearing it.
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  Speaker 2: Yee.
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  Speaker 1: So this is like when this is when people who
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: have anger issues take pinching someone on Saint Patti's Day
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  Speaker 1: too far. Hey, I've got a question here, and I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: think it's one that a lot of us are are
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: asking to ourselves as we play along at home. Why
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: is there any real specificity on September fifteenth? Because it
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  Speaker 1: reminds me of like not wearing white after labor. It
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  Speaker 1: feels like it's somewhat arbitrary, as a lot of fashion is.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was totally the arbitrary. In fact, originally it
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  Speaker 4: was September first, and then they moved it. They decided
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  Speaker 4: to be lax and move it to September fifteenth, but
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  Speaker 4: people took it very seriously and it culminated in this
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  Speaker 4: nineteen twenty two riot that lasted eight days, which is insane.
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  Speaker 4: So it started when some of youths, that's what the
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  Speaker 4: history books call them, youths, tried to take off some
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  Speaker 4: hats from dock workers. Dock workers were not amused, turned
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  Speaker 4: into a brawl, and then it just escalated. There were
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  Speaker 4: apparently at one point a thousand, a mob of a
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  Speaker 4: thousand hat haters knocking off hats on Amsterdam Avenue in
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  Speaker 4: New York and beating people up. They had these wooden
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: sticks with nails on the end so that they could
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  Speaker 4: hook the hat and get it off more efficiently.
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  Speaker 2: That's kind of a fun little prank.
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  Speaker 3: Can you imagine doing it like over a fence, you know,
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  Speaker 3: having a string attached to a dollar bill, you know,
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  Speaker 3: and drinking us too.
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  Speaker 1: Far, you know, l through the crowd of the hat
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  Speaker 1: or whatever.
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  Speaker 4: Now either and it's not as fun, but yeah, so
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  Speaker 4: it I mean, it eventually died down, but eight days
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  Speaker 4: of this people were arrested injured, And it's just such
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  Speaker 4: a bizarre little corner of history. And it's not the
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  Speaker 4: only related riot.
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  Speaker 3: I was going to ask, you've got a little related
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: note here about the zoot suit ryot And I really
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: only know that because of the cherry popping daddies. Seminal
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: nineteen nineties swing hit when there was like the Brian
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: setz Or Orchestra. There was a moment the squirrel nut Zippers,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: kind of old timey music that was like being played
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: on TRL that stands for Total Request Live if anyone forgets.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: Lest we forget.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: But yeah, what was the actual thing where the I
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  Speaker 3: always picture dudes in big hats ands loose zoot suits
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  Speaker 3: just brawling in the streets.
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  Speaker 2: But what set it off?
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  Speaker 4: Well, this was in nineteen forty three, in June, and
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: it's called the zoot suit ryot and zuit suits. As
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: you mentioned, there were these often colorful, but they had
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  Speaker 4: wide shoulders, big lapels, banky pants, and they were originally
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  Speaker 4: pioneered by by black men and then they were taken
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  Speaker 4: up by Latino men and it became sort of a.
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  Speaker 2: White people took it eventually, right well they.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, well the white people got very angry
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: at the Latino So it was a race based This
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: was a race based ryot.
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  Speaker 1: Like marijuana mattiness type of stuff.
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  Speaker 4: It was about the same air era, that's right. And
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: so the white this was in Los Angeles. The white
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: Angelino's attacked the mostly Mexican people who were wearing these
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: zoot suits, and they had an excuse. Often these riots
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: have an excuse. The white people said it was World
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: War two and that they were these zoot suits were
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: unpatriot because they were using too much fabric.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I remember this, is there maybe even a sense that
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: they're a little too Italian?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: Interesting?
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: I do wonder, I mean, like, it just seems like
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: that kind of fashion is more associated with Europe. I
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: just wonder if there was a certain inherent bias around
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: that as well, maybe not just conjecturing from.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: What I understand, that might be a piece of it,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: because if I recall correctly, one of the big issues
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: that was sort of the public rationale for these acts
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: of violence, it was the idea, like you were saying, Aja,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: that it was un American in a time of rations. Yeah,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: that makes sense to be flexing so hard with fabric.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: That Look, every trend reaches this sort of diminishing return
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: where it becomes too extensive, or it goes far too
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: it goes a little too far along the spectrum of
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: cutting edge fashion. So it is technically true that some
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: of the suits of the time could have been you know,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: made into one and a half regular size suits. But
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think that means they're at all, you know,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: some hidden fifth column of anti American activity, you know
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: what I mean. I don't think it's time for red scare.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: So it does sound like they're justifying racism and violent
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: action in in already very tense environments, right exactly.
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: I think there were probably bigger threats to America.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: At that point. Maybe you don't think who are we?
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: But actually that can I segue back to hats for
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: a second, means this idea of size actually plays a
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: part in several other controversies. One of my favorite fashion
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: crimes was this occurred in seventeen nine in London, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: there was a man who was arrested. His name was
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: mister Heatherington. We don't know that his first name. He
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: was arrested and put in jail bond with five hundred pounds,
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: so that's that's real. His crime was wearing a huge,
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: tall silk hat. And the article in the London Gazette
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: says that this tall structure with shiny luster was calculated
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: to frighten timid people.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And in fear of the hat that hat oh.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: Well, apparently it was so tall that several women fainted
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: at the unusual site. Can you imagine children screamed this
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: was from the paper dog natural. One person was thrown
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: down by the crowd and broke his right arm. So
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: for these reasons, the defendant was seized by the guards.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: So I just love that. I mean, a tall hat,
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: like you said, I forget whether it was it was
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: which one of you said that the right of Spring
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: that Servinsky.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: It just freaked them out.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a piece of music that didn't quite
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: harmonize and people were so upset that they rioted. And
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: I love that things that could make people riot in
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: the past, where tall hats and atonal music.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I also I love the essummation and also without body shaving.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Iind of want to see a picture of mister Heatherington's
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: face because I don't you know what I mean, Like,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: there are I'm sure people who are uncomfortable with headgear
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and headwear and all that sort of stuff, But it
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: feels like there's more to the story behind this guy
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: in his top hat, like in the in the excellent
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: limited series Taboo. If Everybody's familiar fan, Yeah.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: I was good with Tom Hardy about what's it is
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: there about the East India Trading Company is the big
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: bad and he's this dude that has like gone disappeared
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: for a long time, and he's been living with some
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: sort of I believe Amazonian tribe and he's learned all
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: this like kind of witchcraft kind of stuff and he
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: comes back and.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Wreaks havoc on the man in Victoria in London. It's good.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: And he does the entire thing in a tall hat,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: very tall, but it is, it is, and it's one
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: of those tall, those top hats. The vertically I guess
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: we'll say vertically accelerated hats are something that I've always
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: wondered about, like will they come back? I believe Farrell
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: did a very large like Park Ranger meets Cowboy kind
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: of hat.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: Almost like a tricorn hat kind of Yeah. I do
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: have to wonder. I mean, when I think about the
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: tall top hat too, you're I think you might have
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: been getting to this bend asking about the dude's face.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Is it may maybe an attempt to draw attention away
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: from one's face because you've got this massive thing, you.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Know, lumbering over you.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: I do one maybe he had an unsightly mole and
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: he was just very insecure and wanted people to look
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: at his top hat rather than his face. But then
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the tall top hat
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: does guide your gaze down to the face eventually.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a tall top hat for a lot
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: of people can just make you look shorter. So I'm
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: not sure what the We're not sure of the calculus.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: We do know we love the name and aj this
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: sounds like we don't have a ton of follow up
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: on this guy, like when he got out, he just
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: got five right, this was.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: This was the only article about him. Unfortunately, I read
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: about it in a great book called Dress Codes by
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: Richard Thompson Ford. Two quick things. I don't want it
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: to rail us, but you mentioned.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Oh rail us.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Please continue unsightly moles.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: I remember reading when I first read the Encyclopedia, they
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: held a whole section on patches, especially in France, so
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: they the moles were not considered unsightly. They would you,
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: people would pay good money for these fake moles, and
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: sometimes they'd be in shapes of like spiders.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah stars, Yes, I'm glad you mentioned shapes of spiders.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to mention one last thing.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: The tall skinny top hat really makes me think of
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: the art of Edward Gory, Like if you think about
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: that kind of macabre, sort of gothic kind of vibe,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: or like Tim Burton, like The Corpse Bride or something
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: like that, or even Nightmember before Christmas. Those tall skinny
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: top hats very much fit that aesthetic.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it. You're right, we need them back.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: We need them back.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I think so clearly you guys are on board with this.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: We'll figure it out. Yeah, because now that now that
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: we're rocking the Tricorn, I can I can tell our
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: accountant this was for work purposes. So that's that's really
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the reason we're having on the show. Uh. Also, we
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: would be remiss as a US based UH researchers and
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: podcasters if we did not shout out, perhaps what are
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: the two most famous uses of the top hat in
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: US mythos, which is of course former president amateur wrestler
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln. Going to reach on that guy, Yeah, the
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: guy who inspired Uncle Sam ah right by far, one
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: of the most garish top hats.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: That one kind of flares out at the top.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Right, Okay, kind of feels how the I guess that's
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: a good point depends on how the cartoonist was feeling
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: about the us on that day. Whatever they drew.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: I love hat related satire.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: And we're going to hold the phone, the rough, the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: corset or the collar. There, folks, this is going to
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: be a two parter. Big Big thinks too. The legendary
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: A J. Bahamas Jacobs, just the most like the nicest,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: most erud averdyke.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Guy indeed and just a yeah and a fashion icon,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: a real clothes horse with the try corner. Had that
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: you were also rocking. I'm gonna gap to get me
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: on for the next time we have ah on. But yeah,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: always always a delight to hang with the puzzler.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, agreed, Big Big Things as well to our super
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: producer mister Max Williams, his biological brother, our composer Alex Williams.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Do we have a check in on Alex? How's he doing?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: He's good, Yeah, he's still I think he's I think
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: he's in town still.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Alex around his code just playing guitar, singing, hiking,
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: riding bikes.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe we could get maybe we could get Alex on
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the show one day or return have him return one
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: day soon. In the meantime, Big thanks to Jonathan Strickland
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: aka the Quizzer, who else, Noel, who else? Who else?
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Oh you know, Chris Frasciotis, E.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Jeff Codes here in Spirits, all the hits you know,
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Rachel Big, Spinach Lanch and all that good stuff.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: The rude dudes over.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: At Ridiculous Crime. And of course you've been thank you
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: and also witch.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: You mm hmm. You see you next time, folks.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows