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El-Sayed Fights Trump Villain Tag · Balance of Power

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
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  Speaker 2: Podcasts.
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
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  Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.
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  Speaker 4: Summer is officially over.
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  Speaker 3: Fall is over.
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  Speaker 4: Is here and reality does set upon us on this Tuesday.
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  Speaker 4: And our reality in the United States now includes higher
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  Speaker 4: tariffs on billions of dollars of U.S. exports that are
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  Speaker 4: bound for Canada. As Mark Carney, the prime minister, followed
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  Speaker 4: through on his threat to impose retaliatory tariffs on these
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  Speaker 4: billions of dollars worth of goods from Canada, motorcycles and cosmetics,
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  Speaker 4: to cheese, to steel, which could see tariffs go up
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  Speaker 4: to 50% and retaliation, of course, for the higher tariffs
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  Speaker 4: that the Trump administration has placed on an equal amount
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  Speaker 4: of Canadian goods. It's a trade war that shows no
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  Speaker 4: sign of letting up, especially now as President Trump is
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  Speaker 4: suggesting he might go after Canadian aircraft maker Bombardier and
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  Speaker 4: its U.S. sales. And there's no sign that the war
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  Speaker 4: between Russia and Ukraine is letting up anytime soon, either
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  Speaker 4: despite the efforts over this weekend made by U.S. envoys
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  Speaker 4: Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner as they traveled first to
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  Speaker 4: Moscow and then to Kiev for talks with Russia and Ukraine.
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  Speaker 4: So let's get into all of this now as we
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  Speaker 4: turn to Bloomberg's Kate Sullivan, who covers the White House
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  Speaker 4: for us and is joining us live from the White
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  Speaker 4: House North Lawn. Kate, let's start with Canada, the higher tariffs,
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  Speaker 4: this trade war. Do we have any idea how President
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  Speaker 4: Trump plans to respond, if he will, to these new
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  Speaker 4: retaliatory measures?
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  Speaker 3: That's right. We're certainly expecting a response. So as Canada
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  Speaker 3: is now ramping up these tariffs. We're watching closely to
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  Speaker 3: see what the president says today about this. We've not
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  Speaker 3: heard yet. Today, he had an event honoring 9-11 emergency
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  Speaker 3: personnel victims and did not mention that at that event.
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  Speaker 3: One area that Canada is focusing on in particular is U.S.
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  Speaker 3: steel exports. And I think that will be an important
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  Speaker 3: area to watch. They're increasing the import tax on many U.S.
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  Speaker 3: steel items to 50 percent. And of course, that's going
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  Speaker 3: to affect U.S. steel exporters in Michigan and Ohio. And
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  Speaker 3: those are critical battleground states with close midterm elections. Canada
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  Speaker 3: clearly placing a bet here that this will improve their
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  Speaker 3: negotiating standing when it comes to this trade war with
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  Speaker 3: the U.S.
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  Speaker 4: When it comes to the Bombardier jets, just quickly, Kate,
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  Speaker 4: which President Trump threatened to go after any sales of
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  Speaker 4: those planes to the U.S., do you have any sense
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  Speaker 4: of what authority the president could do that under if
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  Speaker 4: it exists? It's a great question, Kayleigh.
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  Speaker 3: I think there right now are a lot of questions
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  Speaker 3: about what the president actually wants to do, what he's
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  Speaker 3: going to try to do. Of course, we saw the
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  Speaker 3: Supreme Court intervene when it came to the tariffs. But
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  Speaker 3: the White House and the administration have found a lot
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  Speaker 3: of ways to get around these restrictions. And we see
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  Speaker 3: them really try to ratchet up these tensions with Canada.
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  Speaker 3: and try to use everything at their disposal. So right
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  Speaker 3: now we're watching closely to see how exactly they're going
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  Speaker 3: to implement this, because that is a key question here,
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  Speaker 3: of course.
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  Speaker 4: Oh, we have so many questions for this White House
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  Speaker 4: and for you, Kate. On geopolitics as well, as we understand,
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  Speaker 4: at least according to what the Kremlin has said, President
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  Speaker 4: Trump spoke by phone with Russia's Vladimir Putin today after
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  Speaker 4: Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner traveled to Moscow for talks
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  Speaker 4: with Russia and then to Kiev for talks with Ukraine
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  Speaker 4: as well. What is the read from the White House
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  Speaker 4: on how all of this went, how that phone call
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  Speaker 4: went with Putin, if there is one? That's right.
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  Speaker 3: So there are reports that this phone call happened. We
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  Speaker 3: haven't heard from the president directly yet on what exactly
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  Speaker 3: was discussed and how that phone call went. But it's
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  Speaker 3: very notable coming after this big trip from the president's envoys,
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  Speaker 3: Jared Kushner, who, of course, is also his son-in-law.
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  Speaker 4: And Steve Witkoff.
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  Speaker 3: They went to Ukraine and Russia over the weekend as
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  Speaker 3: they tried to really revive and revamp these long stalled
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  Speaker 3: talks to try to end the war in Ukraine. It
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  Speaker 3: was notable because it was the first time that the
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  Speaker 3: envoys went to Kyiv to meet with Zelensky in Ukraine.
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  Speaker 3: They'd been to Moscow before to speak with Vladimir Putin.
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  Speaker 3: But this was the first time Trump's envoys went to Kyiv.
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  Speaker 3: It's also notable that it does not appear that there
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  Speaker 3: was any kind of significant breakthrough or progress when it
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  Speaker 3: comes to these talks. And Trump, of course, as a candidate,
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  Speaker 3: when he was running for president, promised dozens and dozens
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  Speaker 3: of times to end this war in Ukraine in about
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  Speaker 3: 24 hours, he said, right when he took office. That,
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  Speaker 3: of course, has not been the case. But the president
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  Speaker 3: repeatedly pointed to his relationship with Vladimir Putin as a
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  Speaker 3: reason why he believed that he could get that done. But,
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  Speaker 3: you know, new Bloomberg reporting today is showing that U.S.
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  Speaker 3: and European officials are privately acknowledging that this war is
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  Speaker 3: likely to stretch into next year, at least, and that
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  Speaker 3: Putin is looking to really revamp those attacks on Ukraine
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  Speaker 3: this winter.
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  Speaker 5: All right.
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  Speaker 4: Bloomberg's Kate Sullivan live at the White House for us.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you so much. And for more on the war
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  Speaker 4: between Russia and Ukraine and whether or not talks to
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  Speaker 4: end it can advance materially, we turn now to Melinda Herring,
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  Speaker 4: senior fellow at the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center, who's here
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  Speaker 4: with me in our Washington, D.C. studio. Melinda, welcome back
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  Speaker 4: to Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's great to have you
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  Speaker 4: here in D.C. after, I believe, a very recent trip
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  Speaker 4: to Ukraine. When did you return? And if we could begin,
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  Speaker 4: tell me what you heard and saw there. It's great
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  Speaker 4: to be with you.
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  Speaker 6: So I was in Kiev for Independence Day and the
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  Speaker 6: National Prayer Breakfast.
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  Speaker 4: I was in Lviv.
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  Speaker 6: I was in Kiev and Chernihiv, which is in the north.
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  Speaker 6: And it was really intense. Putin really started to hit
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  Speaker 6: Kiev very, very hard. I was there before the Kushner-Witkoff visit.
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  Speaker 6: And I slept in bomb shelters most nights. And this
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  Speaker 6: is the daily new reality. And the Russians are now
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  Speaker 6: using jet-powered drones. And they're two to three times faster
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  Speaker 6: than the old drones. So they're able to evade air defense.
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  Speaker 6: And it's a really big problem right now.
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  Speaker 4: Well, evading air defense is one thing. Just having adequate
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  Speaker 4: air defense in general is another question as well. What
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  Speaker 4: air defenses does Ukraine currently have to withstand any kind
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  Speaker 4: of Russian attack?
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  Speaker 6: Not much, but they're able to take out Shahids. I mean,
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  Speaker 6: they're doing it the old-fashioned way. So it depends on
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  Speaker 6: which region of Ukraine you're talking about. But they absolutely
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  Speaker 6: and urgently need more air defense, particularly Patriot interceptors. There
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  Speaker 6: is new technology that's being developed, though, to take down
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  Speaker 6: these jet-powered drones. There's three to five companies that are
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  Speaker 6: in trials. They're not successful yet, but they're getting pretty close.
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  Speaker 6: So I think that it's terrible what's happening, but it's
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  Speaker 6: also forcing Ukraine to innovate even faster.
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  Speaker 4: Well, as we consider the timelines here, if they're still
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  Speaker 4: trying to push for this innovation, if anything, it speaks
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  Speaker 4: to the fact that they expect that this is still
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  Speaker 4: going to be a challenge for some time to come.
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  Speaker 4: Did you get any sense while you were in Ukraine
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  Speaker 4: that they are expecting that this war could have a
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  Speaker 4: negotiated outcome to it in the near term? Or are
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  Speaker 4: they doubling down, buckling down, prepared for the long haul?
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  Speaker 6: There's absolutely no indication that this war is going away.
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  Speaker 6: I know everyone wants it to go away. No one
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  Speaker 6: wants it to go away more than the Ukrainians. They're
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  Speaker 6: the ones that are suffering and in the bomb shelters
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  Speaker 6: every night. The war is not going away, unfortunately. Vladimir
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  Speaker 6: Putin is turning up the pressure. So we saw during
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  Speaker 6: the Witkow Kushner visit, he stopped hitting the city of Kiev.
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  Speaker 4: But look a little bit closer.
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  Speaker 6: He continued to bomb Ukraine, just not the city of Kiev.
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  Speaker 6: So it's an act of will and an act of choice.
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  Speaker 6: As soon as the negotiators left, he ramped up the pressure.
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  Speaker 6: So over the last 24 hours, there have been air
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  Speaker 6: raid alerts for about 18 of 24 hours. It's been
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  Speaker 6: a miserable period. They just hit a newsroom. They just
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  Speaker 6: hit historic districts of Kiev. And this is the largest
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  Speaker 6: city of Ukraine. And Putin is calculating that if he
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  Speaker 6: puts enough pressure on Kiev, that Kiev's going to say uncle,
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  Speaker 6: and they're not going to. And last week they hit
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  Speaker 6: the SBU. It's their equivalent of the FBI, and they
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  Speaker 6: hadn't done that before. And that was a major hit,
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  Speaker 6: and that was meant to send a message to Witkoff
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  Speaker 6: and Kushner, don't come, it's dangerous here. And the Russians
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  Speaker 6: also hit two of the major airports because the guys
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  Speaker 6: had planned to land in Kiev. They weren't able to
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  Speaker 6: do that.
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  Speaker 4: Well, but they did make the trip.
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  Speaker 6: They did make the trip. And this was the first time.
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  Speaker 6: This is a big deal. So yeah, nothing came out
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  Speaker 6: of it. Your correspondent is right. But it did do
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  Speaker 6: a few things. So Wyckoff has been to Moscow eight times.
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  Speaker 6: And if you're going to be a negotiator, you got
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  Speaker 6: to go to both sides of the conflict, right? So
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  Speaker 6: good on them for going. I like what Ukraine did
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  Speaker 6: with the symbolism, though. So it's important to study the images.
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  Speaker 6: This is what we get paid to do. And the
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  Speaker 6: Ukrainians served a Crimean Tatar menu. And on the placemat,
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  Speaker 6: it says Crimea is Ukraine.
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  Speaker 4: Ukrainians were not subtle.
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  Speaker 7: Good.
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  Speaker 6: They also hosted the guys at Saint Sophia. And that
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  Speaker 6: was another beautiful historic church. And it was another message
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  Speaker 6: to say, hey, Ukraine has been around before Russia. And
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  Speaker 6: then also in Moscow, Putin had said there's Nazis there
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  Speaker 6: and they were talking about the Kiev regime. So then
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  Speaker 6: when Witkoff and Kushner made it to Kiev, Zelensky came out,
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  Speaker 6: shook their hands and said, do you see any Nazis?
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  Speaker 6: And he gave them T-shirts that say Kiev regime. So
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  Speaker 6: they had a little bit of fun with it. So
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  Speaker 6: I think the Ukrainians did well symbolically. And Ukrainians, ordinary
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  Speaker 6: Ukrainians got three days to finally rest after eight days
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  Speaker 6: of continuous bombing. So from a human perspective, it was
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  Speaker 6: great that people got a break. And also Witkow and
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  Speaker 6: Kushner got to see Ukraine for themselves and experience it.
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  Speaker 4: I hope they'll come back. Well, and to your point
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  Speaker 4: on the symbolism and a menu saying Crimea is Ukraine,
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  Speaker 4: when it comes to the question of Ukraine's territorial integrity,
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  Speaker 4: is there any sign, did you have any indication when
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  Speaker 4: you were there that they are prepared to make some
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  Speaker 4: kind of territorial concession if there are to be negotiations
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  Speaker 4: to end the war? Or do the two sides just
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  Speaker 4: remain fundamentally fixed? far apart from each other on that?
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  Speaker 6: So Moscow is the problem. Moscow needs to change its position,
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  Speaker 6: and it has not changed its position whatsoever. So we
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: see what came out of the three-hour and 10-minute meeting
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  Speaker 6: Moscow is nothing. Putin is maintaining that he wants Ukraine
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  Speaker 6: to give up territory that Ukraine holds. That's not a negotiation.
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  Speaker 6: They want to limit the size of the armed forces
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  Speaker 6: of Ukraine. They want veto power over Ukraine's foreign policy.
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  Speaker 6: They're basically saying Ukraine's not a sovereign country. There's no negotiation.
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  Speaker 6: The war is not going away. And Ukraine is right
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  Speaker 6: to prepare. And Europe is right to prepare as well.
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  Speaker 6: And one other good news item that came out of
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  Speaker 6: the Kiev meeting, I think the U.S. is finally starting
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  Speaker 6: to consider its participation in winter. Ukrainians almost froze to
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  Speaker 6: death last year. We have women, children, and people need
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  Speaker 6: not only air defense, but they need heaters, they need batteries.
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  Speaker 6: And I would love to see the Department of Energy
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  Speaker 6: and the State Department do more and prepare now.
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  Speaker 4: Well, we know that Russia is not afraid to use
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: the cold as a weapon, to your point. We are
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: getting some headlines through from Interfax citing Sergei Lavrov's saying
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: that how long the special military operation will last is dependent,
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: he says, much to depend on the advice the West
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  Speaker 4: gives Ukraine. We heard no good advice. What do you
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  Speaker 4: think the messaging is from the U.S. to Ukraine right now,
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  Speaker 4: or frankly, the message from the U.S. to Russia? Sergey
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  Speaker 4: Lavrov is also saying that Whitakoff and Kushner are dealing
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  Speaker 4: with a problem, not demanding something unfair or impossible.
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  Speaker 6: So I think it's important to go back and look
• 11:29
  Speaker 6: at the White House statement that came out after that
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  Speaker 6: meeting with Witkoff and Kushner. And it was really revealing.
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  Speaker 6: It says that we need to go back and deal
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: with the original causes that caused the war. And this
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  Speaker 6: is code for Putin's understanding of history. Putin doesn't believe
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  Speaker 6: that Ukraine is a real country. The Ukrainian people are
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  Speaker 6: not a real nation and the language isn't real. And
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  Speaker 6: he wrote a long historical essays about it. He talks
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: about the root causes. So he's not even, in order
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: to have a negotiation, you have to accept that another
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  Speaker 6: state is sovereign. And he doesn't accept that Ukraine is
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  Speaker 6: a sovereign nation. So it's more, so the Russians are
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  Speaker 6: trying to play down the clock. They're trying to get
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  Speaker 6: involved in intricate negotiations with, And get the U.S. involved
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  Speaker 6: and just play down the clock. That's what they're doing
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  Speaker 6: because they're still gambling that time is on their side
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  Speaker 6: and that they can outlast us and outlast the Europeans.
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  Speaker 6: I don't think that's true, though.
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  Speaker 4: Well, why isn't it true? Why would Russia have reason
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  Speaker 4: to believe that the clock is actually ticking for the Kremlin?
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  Speaker 6: So I think Europe is waking up. Has it woken
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  Speaker 6: up fast enough? No, but it is waking up. The
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: Germans definitely are waking up. The Brits are alive. So
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: when I was in Kiev at Independence Day, the new
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: prime minister came.
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  Speaker 4: And he gave a speech.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: And he said, I chose to come to Kiev. He
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: announced another package and he's announcing even more defense cooperation.
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: The Brits are alive and well. Congress is probably going
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: to change in January. And I expect the new Congress
• 12:47
  Speaker 6: to be much more pro-Ukrainian. This Congress is has done
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: nothing for Ukraine. So right now, the Lindsey O. Graham
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: sanctions bill, we're waiting. It passed the Senate. We're waiting
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: for either House leadership on the Republican and Democrat side
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: to do something. And it's now or never with this bill.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: Well, on that, we've heard from a number of Democrats
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  Speaker 4: on this program. Others have said it publicly as well,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: that they are more than willing to provide support to Ukraine.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: They would like to see greater sanctions on Russia. What
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: they're concerned about is granting more tariff authority to President Trump.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: What would you tell someone who has concerns about the
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: potential consequence of passing sanctions on Russia.
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  Speaker 6: So that objection is nonsense because there is an out
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: for the European countries that they're worried about. So they
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: need to read the bill and the details more deeply.
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: That's not a real worry. The real worry, though, the
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: real rub is that some of the House Democrats are
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: a little miffed that they weren't involved in the negotiating
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: process on the Senate side, and the Senate did it
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: without them. Look, I understand that. But be big boys
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: and girls. Ukraine needs U.S. support now. And even if
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: you don't love the bill, it's time to pass it.
• 13:51
  Speaker 6: This Congress has been I can't even think of a
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  Speaker 6: polite word. They've been missing in action. It's embarrassing to
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: look my Ukrainian colleagues in the face, my European colleagues
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: in the face. When I talk about American support for Ukraine,
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: we've done squat since President Trump came back into power.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Well, President Trump had suggested at least at one point
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: that he was willing to grant Patriot licensing to Ukraine.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Then he suggested maybe that that wasn't a done deal.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: Is Ukraine moving forward with that? Where exactly does that stand?
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  Speaker 6: So the president backtracked and there are ongoing conversations. The
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: excuse was it's going to take years in order to
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: make this happen.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: Is that true?
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: Yes, it will take two to three years in order
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: to make it happen. The Ukrainians will be able to
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: push ahead because they're sophisticated, but there's things that could
• 14:33
  Speaker 6: be done now. The Ukrainians are also testing Ukrainian indigenous systems.
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: They're not as good.
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  Speaker 6: The Patriots are better, but Trump should have made that deal,
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  Speaker 6: signed it, inked it, and pushed it forward. This war
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  Speaker 6: is not going away. I told you before, at least
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: two more years. It could be another three or four years.
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  Speaker 4: Really? Three to four years.
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  Speaker 6: So there's too many contingencies. I can't lay out all
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: the variables.
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  Speaker 4: We don't have time.
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  Speaker 6: But yeah, this war could drag on for another three
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: to four years.
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  Speaker 4: Well, that's incredible to consider. I would assume that Ukraine
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: is going to continue to make technological advances like you
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: were speaking to in that time. And already we've seen
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: Ukraine have incredible success going after Russian refineries. It's had
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: an impact globally on diesel prices.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: So this could potentially lead to a more serious energy
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: situation in the next three to four years if they
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  Speaker 4: are going to continue to pursue going after that vulnerability
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: of Russia.
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  Speaker 6: That's right. So Ukraine has managed to hit every major
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: Russian oil refinery except for one, and its powers to hit.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: So the U.S.
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  Speaker 6: Is doing a really good job with intel support. You
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: see the Ukrainians striking with precision, but they're getting better
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: at their long-range strikes, and they're going to continue to
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: innovate with technology.
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: A very insightful conversation. Melinda Herring, fresh off a trip
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: to Ukraine. Thank you so much for joining us. She's,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: of course, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center,
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: and we appreciate the conversation. We have more important conversations
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: coming up. I'll speak, of course, with the Democratic Senate
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: candidate in Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed, shortly. And right ahead, I'll
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: be speaking with our political panel as we turn back
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: to the issue of tariffs. and the trade war between
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: the U.S. and Canada, which is only getting hotter today
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: with the implementation of retaliatory tariffs from the Canadian government
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: on a number of U.S.
• 16:17
  Speaker 9: Goods.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: That's just ahead here on Balance of Power on Bloomberg
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: TV and radio.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and 5 p.m. Eastern on
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: Watching the markets, of course, kicking off the trading week
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: on a Tuesday after the holiday weekend. A Tuesday which,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: as expected, has brought with it higher tariffs placed on
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: billions of dollars worth of U.S. goods, at least those
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: that are bound for Canada. Mark Carney's government following through
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: on its threat, promised tariffs on number of products, up
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: to 50 percent tariffs on U.S.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: Steel.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: Tariffs also being placed on a number of consumer goods,
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: be it cosmetics, motorcycles, cheese. And interestingly, Carney does seem
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: to have had politics in mind, not just his domestic
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: politics at home, where this trade war and his hard
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: stance on it actually does seem to be working in
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: his political favor, but also the reality that here in
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: the U.S., the midterm elections are quickly approaching. We're just
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: 56 days away from Election Day, and the balance of
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: power will be decided by just a handful of states, like,
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: for example... Michigan and Ohio, which each have critical Senate
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: races and which each stand to suffer due to some
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: of these tariff selections that are being made, like that
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: on motorcycles and steel, for example. Of course, Haley Stevens
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: unsuccessfully ran to be the next Democratic nominee for senator
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: in Michigan, but she was on Bloomberg this weekend, over
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: the weekend, talking about how Michigan voters think about this
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: trade war with Canada. This is what she said.
• 18:01
  Speaker 10: No one in Michigan was told by President Trump when
• 18:03
  Speaker 10: he was campaigning that he was going to start a
• 18:05
  Speaker 10: trade war with Canada and lick the bootstraps of China.
• 18:08
  Speaker 10: But that's what he's doing. And everyone running for office
• 18:12
  Speaker 10: who calls himself a Republican, who's out there, you know,
• 18:15
  Speaker 10: distracting on these other, you know, slogans and whims in
• 18:18
  Speaker 10: the day, they own this. They own this backwards trade agenda.
• 18:22
  Speaker 10: And I'm sick and tired of it.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: For our audience on radio, obviously, you can hear the
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: passion in her voice. I would just tell you that
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: this also came with some pretty strong hand gestures as well.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: She clearly feels passionate about the trade issue. The question
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: is going to be how many other Michiganders and how
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: many other potential swing voters across the country feel the
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: same and how will that impact decisions when it comes
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: to who they select on the ballot. For more, we
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: turn to our political panel, Jeannie Shanzano, Bloomberg Politics Contributor,
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: Democratic Analyst and Democracy Visiting Fellow at Harvard Kennedy's Ash Center,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: alongside John Seton, a Republican strategist and founder and CEO
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: of of Echo Canyon Consulting. John, to begin with you,
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: if you were running a Republican campaign in Michigan, if
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: you were working for Mike Rogers or you were working
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: for John Husted in Ohio and you were looking at
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: the way in which tariffs placed by Canada could have
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: a detrimental impact on your state, how big of a
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: political problem is this?
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I think you have to acknowledge that people are hurting,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: that people are concerned with high prices and higher gas
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: prices or gas prices that are higher than than they
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: would like. And I think that you need to really
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: connect with people and first and foremost, let them know
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: that they're heard and then that you have a specific
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: plan if elected to take on these higher prices. I
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: would avoid taking on the tariff issue head on because
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure that it's a winning issue right now.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: The polls show that it is not. But what I
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: think Republicans can do is say that, look, we have
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: a better plan. And if elected, we will implement a
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: better plan than the Democrats have to bring prices down
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: without raising taxes.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: Well, and if you're a Democrat- Jeannie, how can you
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: message to voters that you want to bring prices down
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: if there's authority being executed on the executive level to
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: implement tariffs? What could a member of Congress or a
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: senator do about that?
• 20:15
  Speaker 9: They can just keep pointing to how closely connected all
• 20:19
  Speaker 9: of these candidates have been, especially the incumbents to Donald Trump,
• 20:24
  Speaker 9: as he has for the last two years gotten us
• 20:27
  Speaker 9: involved in, you know, I agree with with Haley Stevenson.
• 20:31
  Speaker 9: these nonsensical trade wars. We know from long ago, tariffs
• 20:37
  Speaker 9: are Donald Trump's favorite word. And tariffs used in a
• 20:41
  Speaker 9: particular way, tariffs used for particular reasons, most people agree
• 20:47
  Speaker 9: that makes sense. But when you are launching a massive
• 20:50
  Speaker 9: trade war against all the countries in the world, when
• 20:53
  Speaker 9: you are mounting that against our closest ally in Canada, And,
• 20:59
  Speaker 9: you know, I wish the Treasury Secretary this weekend had
• 21:02
  Speaker 9: been listening to what John Seton just said, because, of course,
• 21:06
  Speaker 9: as opposed to taking that kind of advice, he went
• 21:09
  Speaker 9: on Fox News and described the trade war between U.S.
• 21:13
  Speaker 9: and Canada as akin to a little yippy dog, is
• 21:17
  Speaker 9: how he described the entire country of Canada, our closest ally,
• 21:22
  Speaker 9: barking at this large German shepherd. That's certainly not what
• 21:26
  Speaker 9: you want to be saying. nor do you want to
• 21:28
  Speaker 9: be doing what the president is doing. Going on Truth
• 21:31
  Speaker 9: Social yesterday and threatening Canada's bombardier, this huge sale of
• 21:38
  Speaker 9: aircraft where he posted Kellyanne Capps, no more selling bombardier
• 21:42
  Speaker 9: in the United States. And this resulted in massive pushback,
• 21:48
  Speaker 9: not from people in swing states, Republicans, but from Republicans
• 21:54
  Speaker 9: in Kansas, a really reliably red state. People are like,
• 21:58
  Speaker 9: Roger Williams, who said, come on, these are twelve hundred
• 22:02
  Speaker 9: plus jobs. Jerry Moran, Roger Marshall, I should say, not Williams.
• 22:06
  Speaker 9: That's another guy. But these are the kinds of people
• 22:09
  Speaker 9: who are saying these are a lot of jobs that
• 22:12
  Speaker 9: you are impacting. And, you know, don't worry, people of Kansas,
• 22:15
  Speaker 9: we have spoken to the White House. This is exactly
• 22:18
  Speaker 9: the antithesis of what they need 60 days out of
• 22:21
  Speaker 9: a midterm election.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: Well, to Jeannie's point, Roger Marshall did take to X
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: to say, I'm going to fight to keep Bombardier's over
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: 1,200 Kansas jobs. I've already taken that concern inside the
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: Oval Office. The X post from Senator Jerry Moran reads,
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: the presence of Bombardier in Wichita supports a local workforce
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: of more than 1,000 employees who contribute their talent and
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: expertise to our nation's defense and aerospace capabilities. He goes on, John,
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: to say that he reached out to the Trump administration
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: to make certain the president is aware of significant contributions
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: of Bombardier to Kansas and the importance of its presence
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: in Wichita. Do you think the president was aware of
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: those things when he made that threat? Would it matter
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: to him?
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I can't speak to whether or not he was aware,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: but I do know that he is very concerned with
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: the majorities in the House and Senate. And so I
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: don't think he would willfully do anything that would imperil
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: the reelection efforts of Senator Marshall or others. But I
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: do think that it's an opportunity perhaps for the president
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: to give credit to Mr. Marshall that he was able
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: to make the case to walk back this particular statement
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: and give him a little bit of a bump in
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: what has turned out to be a much more competitive
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: race than I think a lot of people expected.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: Well, as we consider the economic forces that are making
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: a lot of these rates competitive, we talked about the
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: impact of tariffs. Then, of course, there's also the impact
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: of the war with Iran to consider and how it's
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: translated into higher gas prices, which remain high even this
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: late in the cycle with the summer driving season now
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: past us with Labor Day being over. The president took
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: to True Social yesterday to write that oil prices will
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: drop precipitously like everything else is dropping when we win elections.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: the war with Iran. Having previously characterized this war has
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: already been won by the United States. John, if he
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: takes that message onto the stage this week in Dallas,
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: or if he continues to spin it as he campaigns
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: for Republicans in the run-up to the midterms here, that
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: don't worry, oil prices are going to come down when
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: we win, but we haven't won yet. Is that a
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: winning one message that is, not war?
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: Well, Well, he'll have a very supportive crowd in Dallas. So, yeah,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I think that he'll get a great response there. Out
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: on the campaign trail, I'm not so sure. And I
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: think I've said on this program and others that I
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: think that the one thing the White House could do
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: potentially a little bit more of is explaining to the
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: American people why it was important to have this war
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: right now, to get rid of Iran's nuclear capabilities and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: to really weaken a state sponsored of terror. I'm not
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: certain that the American people fully see the reasoning behind
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: the war. And that is why they're so concerned with
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: gas prices. I mean, look, Americans will share sacrifice when
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: they understand that the cause is a good one. And
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: right now, what I would like to see is as
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: long as we are engaged in this squirmish, that the
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: American people be given a real understanding of why we
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: are doing this and why temporarily gas prices are where
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: they are. And yes, they will come down once the
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: war is over.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: They just aren't down yet. $ 4. 15 a gallon is the
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: average across the country, according to AAA. And while the
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: president in that true social post, Jeannie, went on to
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: say ultimately gas will be down at $ 3 or even
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: $ 2 a gallon, that it'll all happen quickly. If it
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: doesn't happen before November, what does it mean?
• 25:50
  Speaker 9: It's incredibly problematic. And as much as the president likes
• 25:53
  Speaker 9: to say he's not worried about the midterm, we know
• 25:56
  Speaker 9: that he is. And, you know, it's so curious, that
• 26:00
  Speaker 9: truth social that you just read, Kayleigh, because not only
• 26:04
  Speaker 9: has he said, I mean, I've lost count, you know, 30,
• 26:08
  Speaker 9: 50 or more times that the war is won, the
• 26:11
  Speaker 9: war is over. Just Friday, in response to a question
• 26:16
  Speaker 9: from a reporter who was asking about J.D. Vance pushing
• 26:20
  Speaker 9: back on the idea that we were in a war
• 26:22
  Speaker 9: at all, the president agreed and he waxed poetical about
• 26:25
  Speaker 9: the fact that this is a conflict, it's not a war.
• 26:29
  Speaker 9: And yet merely 72 hours, he's describing this as a
• 26:33
  Speaker 9: war that we haven't won yet. And so one big
• 26:36
  Speaker 9: question is, which is it?
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Is it a war?
• 26:39
  Speaker 9: Is it not? And then, of course, the timeframe. He's
• 26:41
  Speaker 9: been promising since the war began, ad nauseum, if you
• 26:46
  Speaker 9: look back on Truth Social, that it will be over soon,
• 26:48
  Speaker 9: that it's almost over and prices will come down precipitously.
• 26:52
  Speaker 9: We are seven months into this thing. John is right.
• 26:56
  Speaker 9: They have never explained to anybody's satisfaction why we're in this.
• 27:01
  Speaker 9: But now people are paying almost double what they were
• 27:05
  Speaker 9: paying for a gallon of gas. On Labor Day, as
• 27:07
  Speaker 9: you mentioned, we're over $ 4 a gallon. It was $ 2. 98
• 27:12
  Speaker 9: when the war started at the beginning of the Trump
• 27:15
  Speaker 9: administration prior to February 28th. That is an enormous jump
• 27:19
  Speaker 9: in prices. And he will be held responsible for that
• 27:24
  Speaker 9: at the ballot box. You know, a lot of people
• 27:26
  Speaker 9: have started comparing 2026 to two decades ago, 2006. We
• 27:32
  Speaker 9: don't know if it will turn out for Donald Trump
• 27:34
  Speaker 9: in this midterm the way it turned out for George W.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Bush.
• 27:37
  Speaker 9: But there are a lot of things that are similar.
• 27:40
  Speaker 9: And one of the main things is, of course, a very,
• 27:43
  Speaker 9: very unpopular war, rising costs and real concerns about corruption
• 27:49
  Speaker 9: and a president who doesn't seem to have a handle
• 27:53
  Speaker 9: on the pulse of the American people, whether it's because
• 27:56
  Speaker 9: he's surrounded by sycophants and people who tell him what
• 27:59
  Speaker 9: he wants to hear or not. That is a real
• 28:02
  Speaker 9: problem for Republicans as they face off in 60 days
• 28:05
  Speaker 9: at the ballot box.
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: Jeannie Shanzano and John Seaton, our political panel today. Thank you.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and 5 p.m. Eastern on
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: I'm Kaylee Lyons here in Washington broadcasting live on Bloomberg
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: TV and radio. Tomorrow, I'll be doing so not from
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: here in D.C., but from Dallas, Texas, where the first
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: ever Republican midterm convention will be held over the course
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: of Wednesday and Thursday. A number of candidates will be
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: flocking to the event. The president, of course, will be
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: speaking on both nights, all in an effort to make
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: a turnout drive ahead of the midterm election, which, of course,
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: is in just 56 days. For more on what we
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: can expect over the course of these festivities. We turn
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: to Bloomberg's Texas Bureau Chief, Julie Fine, who's joining us
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: live from Dallas. So Julie, obviously you've been in the
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: planning stages for this for weeks. What exactly should we
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: be expecting over the course of Wednesday and Thursday?
• 29:17
  Speaker 7: Well, you can expect plenty of President Trump. He is
• 29:20
  Speaker 7: expected to speak both evenings. He's expected to keynote the
• 29:24
  Speaker 7: first and be involved the second evening as well. So
• 29:26
  Speaker 7: you can expect plenty of him. There's a A group
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: of candidates that will be coming through as well, some
• 29:32
  Speaker 7: cabinet members that will be part of this. What will
• 29:35
  Speaker 7: be interesting is you will hear from Attorney General Ken Paxton. He,
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: of course, is in a very difficult, challenging Senate race
• 29:42
  Speaker 7: in the state. That's one that could really affect the
• 29:44
  Speaker 7: balance of power in the United States Senate. So it
• 29:47
  Speaker 7: should be a very busy few days. But again, make
• 29:50
  Speaker 7: no mistake about it, the headliner here is President Trump.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: Well, I Be that as it may, you mentioned Ken Paxton,
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: which MAGA Inc., the president's super PAC, announced over the
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: weekend they will be given $ 10 million to the effort
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: to get him elected. What does that say about his stance, frankly,
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: as a candidate, his relative strength or weakness, especially when
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: it comes to the money game going up against James Tallarico,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: who has proved to be a prolific fundraiser?
• 30:19
  Speaker 7: James Tallarico is a prolific fundraiser. He has greatly out-raised
• 30:25
  Speaker 7: Ken Pax, and it certainly says a lot where this
• 30:27
  Speaker 7: race is. Kayleigh, as you know, this.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: Is an extremely red state.
• 30:31
  Speaker 7: It has not elected somebody statewide from the Democratic Party
• 30:36
  Speaker 7: since the early 90s. I mean, you're looking over three
• 30:39
  Speaker 7: decades ago. So the fact that Ken Paxton is in
• 30:43
  Speaker 7: this situation is not unheard of here. Don't forget that
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: Beto O'Rourke ran against Ted Cruz in 2018. And there
• 30:49
  Speaker 7: was a time in this race that the Cook Political
• 30:52
  Speaker 7: Report called it a toss-up. That, however, was in September.
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: That happened here with the Ken Paxton race in August.
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: So certainly his campaign knows that they have plenty of
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: work to do ahead. If they are going to make
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: this money, the money from President Trump, obviously very welcome
• 31:09
  Speaker 7: at this stage of the race. But he certainly has
• 31:11
  Speaker 7: some ground to make up, especially in the fundraising game.
• 31:16
  Speaker 11: All right.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Julie Fine, live from Dallas. Julie, I'll see you tomorrow.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: Thanks so much for joining us. And as Julie mentioned,
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: Ken Paxton will be one of the speakers at this convention.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: So too will Mike Rogers, the Republican candidate for Senate
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: in Michigan, who is locked in a tight race with
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: progressive Democrat Senator Abdul El-Sayed. I would imagine you'll hear
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: his name said by Mike Rogers maybe a few other
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: times at the convention, as we've heard it invoked a lot,
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: including by Vice President J.D. Vance, who went to Michigan
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: to rally support for Republicans, Mike Rogers included, and had
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: some pretty sharp words about El-Sayed. Listen.
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: There's something about Abdul El-Sayed that is very, very evil
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: and on the rise in the United States of America today.
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: And it's people who see themselves not as citizens of
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: a common nation, but see themselves as fighting for one
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: group at the expense of others. And that is how,
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: ladies and gentlemen, you destroy the United States of America.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: We've heard similar language from others as well, including the NRSC,
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: which has launched a number of attack ads against El-Sayed,
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: including one describing him as the most radical candidate in America.
• 32:28
  Speaker 9: Listen.
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: Abdulrahman Mohammad El-Sayed, the most radical Senate candidate in America.
• 32:33
  Speaker 8: El-Sayed pledged support for the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood,
• 32:37
  Speaker 8: a designated foreign terrorist group. He wants to hike taxes
• 32:40
  Speaker 8: on Michigan waitresses, delivery drivers, and seniors on Social Security.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: And I'm pleased to say... To respond to these things himself,
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: Abdul El-Sayed, the Michigan candidate, Democratic candidate for Senate, is
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: joining us now on Bloomberg TV and radio. Abdul, thank
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: you so much for being here. Obviously, I'm sure you
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: are familiar with these lines of attack by now. Also,
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: the sense that Republicans across the board seem to be
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: equating your candidacy with that of Democrats all over the
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: country this cycle. So where is the daylight between you
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: and other Democrats?
• 33:17
  Speaker 11: Let's just talk about what Michiganders are worried about, what's
• 33:20
  Speaker 11: dangerous to them. What's dangerous to them is that they're
• 33:22
  Speaker 11: watching their entire paycheck get gobbled up by gas they
• 33:25
  Speaker 11: can't afford, groceries they're getting priced out of, utilities that
• 33:29
  Speaker 11: are way too expensive, all bought and paid for by
• 33:32
  Speaker 11: the corporations who are buying people like Mike Rogers, J.D. Vance,
• 33:35
  Speaker 11: and Donald Trump. So if we want to talk about
• 33:37
  Speaker 11: where we need to be, we need a politics that
• 33:39
  Speaker 11: actually answers for their challenges. And that's what we're offering now.
• 33:43
  Speaker 11: Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, Mike Rogers have no real solution
• 33:46
  Speaker 11: to anything. So they're just going to point to me
• 33:48
  Speaker 11: and point to my faith and how I pray and
• 33:49
  Speaker 11: my name and say, well, he's out of step. I
• 33:51
  Speaker 11: don't know. I'm a lot more in step with the Michiganders.
• 33:54
  Speaker 11: I'm meeting up and down the state because I actually
• 33:56
  Speaker 11: spend my time in my state. Unlike Mike Rogers, who,
• 33:59
  Speaker 11: you know, daddy's telling him he needs a hug. So
• 34:01
  Speaker 11: Mike Rogers is going to fly all the way out
• 34:02
  Speaker 11: to Dallas, give daddy a big hug and say really
• 34:05
  Speaker 11: nice things about daddy, who is fighting a tariff war.
• 34:08
  Speaker 11: We have no business fighting with Canada and a hot
• 34:10
  Speaker 11: war with Iran.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: Well, so as you say you want to address the
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: concerns of Michiganders, let's talk about some of the specific
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: ways you've talked about doing that. Because you say you
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: aren't a socialist, that you don't identify with the DSA,
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: that you fundamentally are a capitalist, just one that believes
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: in regulation. So what regulatory levers specifically would you be
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: looking to pull?
• 34:32
  Speaker 11: Well, number one, I think we need an empowered Federal
• 34:34
  Speaker 11: Trade Commission that can stand up to monopolies and oligopolies
• 34:38
  Speaker 11: that are using their market power to fundamentally distort what
• 34:42
  Speaker 11: ought to be markets that folks can freely enter and exit.
• 34:46
  Speaker 11: You know, when you've got monopolies and oligopolies in almost
• 34:47
  Speaker 11: every aspect of American life, they do two things. And,
• 34:50
  Speaker 11: you know, folks at Bloomberg probably understand this better than I.
• 34:53
  Speaker 11: Number one, they spend their effort to raise prices. And
• 34:57
  Speaker 11: number two, they use their power to suppress wages. It's
• 35:01
  Speaker 11: the reason why we're watching as our prices go up
• 35:04
  Speaker 11: and our ability to keep up with those prices stays suppressed.
• 35:08
  Speaker 11: The second thing we really need to do is to
• 35:11
  Speaker 11: make sure that corporations can't buy politicians so that those
• 35:14
  Speaker 11: politicians are going to turn a blind eye. Here in Michigan,
• 35:17
  Speaker 11: you've got people who have gone without power now for
• 35:19
  Speaker 11: days and days because of a storm. That happens every
• 35:22
  Speaker 11: single time you get a storm in Michigan from a
• 35:24
  Speaker 11: corporation called DTE, which has paid $ 64, 000 to help Mike
• 35:28
  Speaker 11: Rogers alone get elected and has spent money to elect 93%
• 35:31
  Speaker 11: of the state legislature. So those two things, number one,
• 35:34
  Speaker 11: addressing oligopolies and monopolies, and number two, making sure corporations
• 35:37
  Speaker 11: can't buy politicians, those two would go a long way
• 35:40
  Speaker 11: to actually restoring a kind of capitalism that allows people
• 35:43
  Speaker 11: to participate.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: Well, one of the areas in which you have been
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: very vocal about your support is Medicare for all. And
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: I wonder how you would respond to someone who would
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: say if you are looking for Medicare for all and
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: you've described this on your own campaign website about how
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: it would render essentially private plans provided by insurers redundant
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: and unnecessary, that that may not be a capitalist idea
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: if you're taking out private competition at the end of
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: the day. What would your answer to that be and
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: how exactly can the United States afford this?
• 36:16
  Speaker 11: Well, the market that people want in healthcare isn't the
• 36:18
  Speaker 11: market for health insurance, which you don't really have a
• 36:20
  Speaker 11: market anyway. You get an employer, that employer has one
• 36:23
  Speaker 11: of two or three plans, and you got to pick
• 36:25
  Speaker 11: between those two or three plans. That's not a market.
• 36:28
  Speaker 11: The market we actually want is the market for a
• 36:30
  Speaker 11: doctor or a hospital. And right now, that is getting
• 36:32
  Speaker 11: squeezed because of health insurers. What happens is that health
• 36:36
  Speaker 11: insurers and hospital corporations negotiate these deals behind closed doors.
• 36:39
  Speaker 11: They call them trade secrets. And they build these sweetheart
• 36:43
  Speaker 11: deals in ways that enable both private insurers to gobble
• 36:47
  Speaker 11: up other private insurers to achieve monopoly power in a
• 36:50
  Speaker 11: local community and hospitals to buy up other hospitals to
• 36:53
  Speaker 11: achieve monopoly power in that community. That seems to me
• 36:55
  Speaker 11: to be pretty anti-market. Medicare for All would offer the
• 36:58
  Speaker 11: same reimbursement rate. for every provider and it would make
• 37:02
  Speaker 11: sure every single person in this country could actually be
• 37:05
  Speaker 11: a customer in that market. That to me seems like
• 37:07
  Speaker 11: an actual market system and it would enable the best
• 37:10
  Speaker 11: providers to be able to go and compete and people
• 37:13
  Speaker 11: would be able to vote with their feet. That's what
• 37:15
  Speaker 11: we really want choice in the matter. And right now
• 37:17
  Speaker 11: we don't have that, that choice is being suppressed by
• 37:20
  Speaker 11: networks that are being corrupted by health insurers that you
• 37:23
  Speaker 11: don't even get to pick from. So yeah, I just
• 37:25
  Speaker 11: think that's just the best way to go and it
• 37:26
  Speaker 11: would cost us less.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: Well, so let's talk more about the cost. You mentioned
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: a moment ago, Abdul, our audience here at Bloomberg, which
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: is well keyed into the bond market as well, and
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: higher long-term borrowing costs that in part are stemming from
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: a $ 40 trillion debt that the United States is facing.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: So what needs to be done about that? If you
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: want to provide health care to everyone and have all
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: of the costs associated with that, where is the offset?
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: What do you do about entitlements? How would you as
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: a senator propose getting our arms around this deficit?
• 37:57
  Speaker 11: Well, number one, the deficit always grows under Republicans who
• 38:00
  Speaker 11: do two things. They cut taxes on the richest people
• 38:02
  Speaker 11: and then they take us to stupid wars we shouldn't
• 38:04
  Speaker 11: be fighting.
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: It grew under President Biden as well.
• 38:07
  Speaker 11: Well, it grew by a lot more under Republicans. That's
• 38:10
  Speaker 11: empirical fact. And you're seeing exactly what happened again now.
• 38:17
  Speaker 11: Donald Trump did what? He cut taxes against billionaires and
• 38:20
  Speaker 11: corporations and then took us to wars we have no
• 38:22
  Speaker 11: business fighting. So to all the billionaires listening, I think
• 38:25
  Speaker 11: you ought to pay for your fair share and we
• 38:27
  Speaker 11: ought to tax you your wealth. And I think we
• 38:29
  Speaker 11: should stop fighting wars that we have no business fighting.
• 38:32
  Speaker 11: You do that and you can actually pay for the
• 38:33
  Speaker 11: things that Michiganders and Americans generally need and deserve, like
• 38:37
  Speaker 11: health care, child care, good infrastructure and good schools.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: Well, on wars, you obviously have been critical of the
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: war with Iran that the U.S. and Israel, of course,
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: joined forces in together. And you've had some sharp words
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: for Israel as well. And actually earlier today, two rabbis
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: held a press conference asking for you to walk back
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: or denounce some of your past statements about Israel, including
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: describing Israel as bloodthirsty and evil, that you framed American
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: Jewish support for Israel in terms of money corruption and
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: purchased loyalty. How do you reconcile those comments with the
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: Michigan Jewish community?
• 39:12
  Speaker 11: Look, I believe deeply in Jewish safety. That is a
• 39:14
  Speaker 11: non-negotiable for me. But I also believe that we ought
• 39:17
  Speaker 11: to be spending our money here to build schools and
• 39:19
  Speaker 11: provide healthcare and childcare here, rather than sending our money
• 39:22
  Speaker 11: abroad to a foreign government that's done terrible things with
• 39:25
  Speaker 11: our money. Israel did a genocide in Gaza. They are
• 39:28
  Speaker 11: empowering settlers to continue to illegally settle the West Bank.
• 39:32
  Speaker 11: They have cleared the way for the annexation of southern Lebanon,
• 39:34
  Speaker 11: all with our tax dollars. I categorically oppose that, and
• 39:37
  Speaker 11: I think we should not be funding it with money
• 39:39
  Speaker 11: that ought to be used here. Now, that is a
• 39:41
  Speaker 11: separate issue when it comes to the well-being of folks
• 39:43
  Speaker 11: here That is a non-negotiable when it comes to our
• 39:46
  Speaker 11: foreign policy. I believe in a foreign policy that also
• 39:49
  Speaker 11: pays attention to people here. The money we send abroad
• 39:51
  Speaker 11: to drop bombs on other people's kids is money we
• 39:53
  Speaker 11: should be spending here to provide for health care and
• 39:55
  Speaker 11: good schools here. Those two things have to be separated apart.
• 39:59
  Speaker 11: And I know in many conversations with Jewish community leaders,
• 40:03
  Speaker 11: they tell me, look, we've got to be able to
• 40:04
  Speaker 11: differentiate between Judaism and the Jewish community here and foreign
• 40:09
  Speaker 11: policy somewhere else.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: And I agree.
• 40:12
  Speaker 11: And so my commitment to the Jewish community, that is ironclad.
• 40:15
  Speaker 11: When it comes to safety and security here in Michigan,
• 40:18
  Speaker 11: there is no question asked that I will always stand
• 40:20
  Speaker 11: up for Jewish safety. When it comes to our foreign policy,
• 40:24
  Speaker 11: we've got to be clear about the role of international law.
• 40:26
  Speaker 11: We've got to hold those who break it accountable, and
• 40:29
  Speaker 11: we cannot continue to subsidize unconditionally foreign militaries that use
• 40:33
  Speaker 11: our money to do dastardly things.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: And finally, as we consider what the military is currently
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: engaged in against Iran, Abdul, obviously gas prices and diesel
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: prices have gone much higher. Diesel is now at a record.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: Is the best way out to bring those costs down
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: for Michiganders and for Americans as a whole to continually
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: pursue economic warfare against Iran? That seems to be the
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: direction the administration is heading in. And I wonder if
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: you think that that's a better strategy.
• 40:59
  Speaker 11: Well, look, at the end of the Obama administration, we
• 41:03
  Speaker 11: had achieved peace. without any war. And that peace was
• 41:09
  Speaker 11: torn apart by Trump administration number one. And now we've
• 41:13
  Speaker 11: got war under Trump administration number two. And ask yourself
• 41:16
  Speaker 11: whether or not that's working for you. This Labor Day,
• 41:18
  Speaker 11: we had the highest gas prices since 2012. Highest gas
• 41:22
  Speaker 11: prices since 2012. Diesel, we pay for that at the
• 41:25
  Speaker 11: grocery store. This is not working. We have to end it.
• 41:28
  Speaker 11: We need to stop fighting wars. We got to start
• 41:30
  Speaker 11: making peace.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: All right, Abdul El-Sayed, running for Senate in Michigan, please
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: come back to Balance of Power here on Bloomberg TV
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: and radio. We'd love to talk with you more, especially
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: get into the data center issues as well, maybe flock cameras.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: There's plenty of issues to discuss, but we appreciate you
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: joining us right here on Bloomberg TV and radio.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.
• 41:54
  Speaker 10: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: At Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: And you can find us live every weekday from Washington, D.C.
• 42:02
  Speaker 9: At noontime Eastern at Bloomberg.com.