Latest / WoT Spoilers / Just Another Sell-sword - A Memory of Light ch11 - EP600

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Just Another Sell-sword - A Memory of Light ch11 - EP600 · WoT Spoilers

0:12
Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers Podcast. Turn recording
0:23
Speaker 1: on now that we've had all of that really heady
0:27
Speaker 1: stuff out of our systems. Just went on a journey.
0:30
Speaker 2: We were talking about string theory and knot theory and topology.
0:38
Speaker 2: And none of us, I was not certain enough to
0:40
Speaker 2: say any of that on recording because I'm Googling Wikipedia
0:44
Speaker 2: while I'm doing it. But yeah, we're just the cool
0:47
Speaker 2: way that, you know, the wheel weaves and the weaves
0:49
Speaker 2: are related to some basic structures in our universe and
0:53
Speaker 2: the way mathematics and topology and sewing and weaving and
0:59
Speaker 2: crocheting and knitting all come together in a really cool way.
1:03
Speaker 1: In ways that Robert Jordan appreciated.
1:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Right. I mean, the wheel weaves
1:07
Speaker 2: is the wheel wills from a physics major. Right. Yeah. Who's,
1:11
Speaker 2: you know, creating this weird black hole, dark one. Time
1:15
Speaker 2: goes on forever and ever. There's no doubt that some
1:17
Speaker 2: of this was at least in the back of his head.
1:19
Speaker 2: And I've talked about that many times that like the
1:21
Speaker 2: man was a physicist without any doubt. You can see
1:24
Speaker 2: it in his writing. Yeah.
1:25
Speaker 1: And this has been a very lovely exploration of things
1:28
Speaker 1: I didn't know about mathy math stuff that Robert Jordan
1:32
Speaker 1: definitely did. And it's just that was very fun. I'm
1:36
Speaker 1: glad that we could hang out with people in live
1:38
Speaker 1: doing that. Let that be everyone's motivation to come to
1:41
Speaker 1: the lives because you can't get this stuff on the
1:43
Speaker 1: recording because we didn't turn recording on till after we
1:46
Speaker 1: had the cool conversation. You have to be here live
1:48
Speaker 1: to hear it.
1:49
Speaker 2: Sometimes, you know, we warm up before we turn recording
1:52
Speaker 2: on and sometimes it's an interesting conversation.
1:57
Speaker 1: Not always, but today it was. Today it very much was.
2:00
Speaker 1: And you know what else is today?
2:01
Speaker 2: I think there's six of something. I think like half
2:06
Speaker 2: a dozen. 600. Oh, 600. Right, right, right.
2:10
Speaker 1: Podcast episodes on the main Wheel of Time spoilers timeline.
2:15
Speaker 2: That's insane.
2:16
Speaker 1: We've made more than 600 in total, but 600 of
2:19
Speaker 1: the numbered podcasts, the things you've been putting out since
2:24
Speaker 1: nearly 10 years ago. 600. We're on 600 today. Not
2:30
Speaker 1: a special chapter, but a special number of episodes.
2:34
Speaker 2: Making it to 100, I think, is an accomplishment. Doing
2:36
Speaker 2: it six times over is tour de force. I mean,
2:39
Speaker 2: there's just not that many podcasts that last this long
2:42
Speaker 2: that have the kind of Staying power with the audience
2:46
Speaker 2: that has the audience that comes back, that has the
2:48
Speaker 2: content to talk about. I mean, a big shout out
2:51
Speaker 2: to Wheel of Time creating a shit ton of content
2:55
Speaker 2: to talk about that we can spend hours and hours
2:58
Speaker 2: and hours on it. But also, you know, I really
3:00
Speaker 2: enjoy the personal spin that we put in here and
3:02
Speaker 2: the way we can talk about our personal lives, our
3:04
Speaker 2: personal opinions, and the way I just felt more comfortable
3:07
Speaker 2: doing that as the podcast has gone on.
3:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an amazing accomplishment to have made. so much
3:14
Speaker 1: of this stuff. It's just our little dinky podcast hobby
3:18
Speaker 1: in the corner, but you do something every single week
3:20
Speaker 1: for enough years, you end up with a lot of
3:23
Speaker 1: the thing. just a lot of it. So thanks everyone
3:27
Speaker 1: for being here through all of this. Cause wow.
3:30
Speaker 2: Right. And just so many people to shout out, right? Like,
3:33
Speaker 2: I mean, this, this, I get to this point where
3:35
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I've hit 600 episodes. There's been so many,
3:37
Speaker 2: so much support from so many people, you know, Dr. Pants,
3:41
Speaker 2: who's currently making our art to John L. Jen, who
3:43
Speaker 2: did so much editing in the beginning to you, to Patrick,
3:47
Speaker 2: to me, to all the Patreons, to the, the big ones,
3:51
Speaker 2: the small ones, the people I have done other podcasts with,
3:54
Speaker 2: to the people you've done other podcasts with, to the
3:56
Speaker 2: guests who have come on, to the artists who have
3:59
Speaker 2: come on, to Michael Kramer and Kate Redding, to, you know,
4:04
Speaker 2: all the people who run JordanCon, who we're going to
4:06
Speaker 2: talk about, the people who run WattCon, who we're going
4:08
Speaker 2: to talk about, the people who run the Watt Idol, and, like,
4:11
Speaker 2: in the community, and, like, all of that comes into
4:14
Speaker 2: play for what this podcast has done in the environment
4:17
Speaker 2: that we've lived in. And like all those people have
4:19
Speaker 2: contributed to the success of this podcast in a way
4:22
Speaker 2: that I don't, there's no way to thank everybody appropriately.
4:25
Speaker 2: There's just no way.
4:26
Speaker 1: It takes such a village, such a fandom village to
4:29
Speaker 1: make a 600 plus episode podcast run. Just wow.
4:36
Speaker 2: And I know by, by saying those names, I'm leaving out,
4:39
Speaker 2: you know, 300 other people who, Who's also contributed, you know,
4:43
Speaker 2: just as much to the podcast. So, you know, I'm
4:47
Speaker 2: sorry if I'm not getting everybody. And I know I'm
4:49
Speaker 2: not getting everybody. There's no way to get everybody.
4:52
Speaker 1: You know who you are. You know that we are
4:55
Speaker 1: so grateful for your assistance. Like, thank you so much, everyone.
4:59
Speaker 1: We could not have got here without everyone's participation. I really, really,
5:05
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. We're not going to make it to
5:07
Speaker 1: episode 700. We probably won't even make it to episode 666.
5:10
Speaker 1: We're going to peter out at some random number in
5:14
Speaker 1: the low 600s. But this one seemed like a good
5:17
Speaker 1: moment to just stop and be like, wow.
5:20
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, the current plan is like the 630s.
5:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
5:27
Speaker 2: But that also tells you we have about 30 more
5:29
Speaker 2: episodes left.
5:31
Speaker 1: Less than a year, gang.
5:32
Speaker 2: 30 to 40 more episodes of this podcast.
5:35
Speaker 1: We're really coming into home base. We're coming in, maybe
5:39
Speaker 1: not sliding entirely. We're still upright and functional, but we're
5:44
Speaker 1: still coming into home base.
5:46
Speaker 2: The slide is once we hit the last battle chapter.
5:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when we trip and fall and absolutely eat it.
5:52
Speaker 1: Just teeth right into the home plate.
5:55
Speaker 2: Oh, man. There's so many POVs and they're so short
5:59
Speaker 2: and they're so disjointed. It's so fun to read, but
6:02
Speaker 2: it is going to be a challenge to podcast through
6:05
Speaker 2: for sure.
6:06
Speaker 1: So everyone continue to be part of this wild ride
6:09
Speaker 1: as we wrap up this last little bit, this last
6:13
Speaker 1: little tiny bit. And with that, we should probably get
6:16
Speaker 1: into today's bite. of this last little bit, which is
6:21
Speaker 1: chapter 11, Just Another Cell Sword, the symbol being the
6:26
Speaker 1: dice to go actually with the title, right? It's a
6:29
Speaker 1: Matt POV that we get the title from, where he
6:33
Speaker 1: refers to himself as Just Another Cell Sword and does
6:36
Speaker 1: dicey things while he's doing that. So that all pairs together.
6:41
Speaker 1: But the chapter covers multiple POVs, and we do not
6:44
Speaker 1: start with Matt.
6:45
Speaker 2: Egwene, Matt, and Rand, right, are the three? Yeah. And
6:48
Speaker 2: so there, Emmons Field 5, there's a lot more Emmons
6:50
Speaker 2: Field 5 in this last book, I will say, than
6:53
Speaker 2: in some of the other books. Like we do jump
6:55
Speaker 2: between those five a lot.
6:57
Speaker 1: I mean, they're our first eyes into the world. It
6:59
Speaker 1: makes sense that they would be our last eyes into
7:01
Speaker 1: the world as well. So I guess with that, I
7:04
Speaker 1: should read us into Egwene's POV.
7:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:07
Speaker 1: I realize there have been disagreements between us in the past,
7:13
Speaker 1: Adelorna Bastien said, riding beside Egwene as they passed through camp.
7:17
Speaker 1: Adelorna was a slim, regal woman. Her tilted eyes and
7:20
Speaker 1: dark hair bespoke her Saldayan heritage. I would not have
7:24
Speaker 1: you consider us enemies. I have not, Egwene said carefully,
7:29
Speaker 1: and do not. She did not ask what Adelorna meant
7:32
Speaker 1: by using the word us. She was green, and Egwene
7:36
Speaker 1: had suspected for a time that she was the captain-general,
7:39
Speaker 1: the name the greens gave to the head of their Aja.
7:42
Speaker 1: That is well, Adelorna said. Some within the Aja have
7:45
Speaker 1: acted in foolishness. They have been informed of their mistakes.
7:51
Speaker 1: You will find no further resistance from those who should
7:53
Speaker 1: have loved you best, Mother. Whatever has passed, let it
7:56
Speaker 1: be buried. Let it be buried, Egwene agreed, amused. Now,
8:01
Speaker 1: she thought, after all this, the Greens try to claim me?
8:05
Speaker 1: They really shit on her until it was cool to
8:08
Speaker 1: be hitched to the Elaine bandwagon, and then they were
8:10
Speaker 1: all for her. They were always pro-Egwene, it turns out, actually.
8:15
Speaker 1: Very convenient timing for.
8:17
Speaker 2: I get why choosing a red as her keeper threw
8:21
Speaker 2: them off. But like the reds and the greens were
8:23
Speaker 2: kind of aligned.
8:25
Speaker 1: There's a lot of layers there.
8:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:28
Speaker 1: It's it's a bit of a yellow flag on the play,
8:31
Speaker 1: but it's not truly a problem. It's just like, oh,
8:34
Speaker 1: maybe she wants to reconcile instead of being another partisan.
8:37
Speaker 2: Right. Right.
8:38
Speaker 1: It's like being of all odds and none doesn't negate
8:42
Speaker 1: the fact that she wants to have been a green
8:45
Speaker 1: and she would have made a great green. Like the
8:48
Speaker 1: fact that she wants to be conciliatory and reach across
8:50
Speaker 1: the aisle doesn't negate her greenness.
8:52
Speaker 2: No, no, it's just, man, I look at our modern
8:56
Speaker 2: politics and often when I see a politician pick someone
9:00
Speaker 2: from like across the aisle as their running mate, it
9:02
Speaker 2: just doesn't go well. This is a little bit different
9:06
Speaker 2: because this is, you know, it's not two opposing parties.
9:11
Speaker 2: There is more subtlety among the seven Ajahs. It's not
9:14
Speaker 2: just one versus the other.
9:16
Speaker 1: Well, and also even within the Red, this represents a
9:18
Speaker 1: very different faction, right? Alida was being driven by the
9:22
Speaker 1: secret evil coup inside, and Sylviana is the people that
9:27
Speaker 1: were being couped against, right, within the Aja. So it's
9:30
Speaker 1: a really big difference than most of those cross-pairings you
9:34
Speaker 1: see in actual politics, where it's just a matter of compromise. Like,
9:37
Speaker 1: this is new leaf kind of energy.
9:39
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's I think the problem is I was like,
9:42
Speaker 2: it feels a lot like compromise when you want to
9:44
Speaker 2: be changing everything drastically. You don't necessarily want to be
9:47
Speaker 2: compromising when you're making changes.
9:50
Speaker 1: But also like Elida did not represent the interests of
9:52
Speaker 1: most of the actual Reds.
9:54
Speaker 2: True.
9:55
Speaker 1: There's a good argument for why she did it and
9:57
Speaker 1: the Greens shouldn't hold it that much against her. But
9:59
Speaker 1: like they've been mean to her ever since the jump, right?
10:01
Speaker 1: Ever since she was in the White Tower, in white,
10:05
Speaker 1: trying to convince them that this is a fight they
10:07
Speaker 1: need to participate in. And they were, like, some of
10:09
Speaker 1: the harshest critics of her. And now that she's Omerlin,
10:12
Speaker 1: now they're pro her. And it's like, I could have
10:14
Speaker 1: used you guys before.
10:16
Speaker 2: Right. Well, and now that she saved the captain general's
10:19
Speaker 2: life in the Battle of the White Tower, right, and
10:23
Speaker 2: upstaged them quite a bit in terms of her ability
10:25
Speaker 2: to fight the Sean Chan. Right.
10:28
Speaker 1: Adelorna is like, look, as the captain general of the
10:30
Speaker 1: Green Anja, I am making certain facts known so that
10:34
Speaker 1: with certain respect is given where it is due. Here's
10:38
Speaker 1: a little info to you. Here's some punishment to them.
10:41
Speaker 2: Like.
10:42
Speaker 1: We are going to retroactively claim you. Please don't hold
10:45
Speaker 1: it against us that it took us a really politically
10:48
Speaker 1: inexpedient amount of time.
10:50
Speaker 2: Here is the crow that which we shall eat.
10:52
Speaker 1: Right, right. Which, like, at a certain point, you have
10:55
Speaker 1: to allow people to admit their mistakes and pay for
10:57
Speaker 1: them and move on. You can't hold a mistake against
10:59
Speaker 1: an institution forever. If you want the institution to be
11:02
Speaker 1: effective during the apocalypse, at a certain point, we do
11:06
Speaker 1: need to cut the albatross off the neck and move forward.
11:09
Speaker 2: Especially with the battle logger.
11:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like if they're willing to eat the crow,
11:13
Speaker 1: then like, okay, you know? And that's basically how she
11:16
Speaker 1: takes it. It's like, okay, this is a little bit
11:18
Speaker 1: too little too late, but it's enough that that's good.
11:22
Speaker 2: Then she shits on Llewellyn for a while.
11:25
Speaker 1: She vacillated between keeping her close to watch her and
11:28
Speaker 1: sending her far, far away. Llewellyn acts more like a
11:31
Speaker 1: bodyguard than a prisoner. It's so obvious on the page
11:33
Speaker 1: what should have happened, what should be building up to.
11:36
Speaker 1: Like this is such good enemies to friends setup. It's
11:41
Speaker 1: so frustrating knowing where it goes.
11:42
Speaker 2: Because it is built up to have Llewellyn save her life,
11:45
Speaker 2: bring her back from the brink after Gawain commits suicide. Yeah.
11:49
Speaker 1: It's like she's bringing all good information. She is fully
11:52
Speaker 1: committed to being on Egwene's team. She's doing everything. And
11:55
Speaker 1: Egwene is still standoffish. And that's fine because she has
11:58
Speaker 1: trust issues. Like this is when you're with the really
12:02
Speaker 1: reactive dog and you're just not reacting and you're showing
12:04
Speaker 1: them that. We don't have to be in a barking fest.
12:06
Speaker 1: We can actually just calm down and sit next to
12:09
Speaker 1: each other. This is a really important part of the
12:13
Speaker 1: bridging of that trauma for Egwene. Could be.
12:16
Speaker 2: And then she walks into Brynn's tent and we get
12:20
Speaker 2: technology creep.
12:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.
12:22
Speaker 2: Like it, love it, or hate it. This is where
12:25
Speaker 2: we see changing gateways from vertical to horizontal.
12:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. And they make the very dumb decision to just
12:33
Speaker 1: have it in the ground rather than in a table
12:36
Speaker 1: surface where it would make sense. Like the Omerlin almost
12:39
Speaker 1: trips and falls a thousand feet out of the sky, right?
12:42
Speaker 1: Like we can do better, guys. We can do better.
12:44
Speaker 1: You could have just put it in the table in
12:46
Speaker 1: the first place.
12:47
Speaker 2: I like the line. I'm not sure if this is
12:49
Speaker 2: brilliant or incredibly foolhardy. So I do think that's a
12:52
Speaker 2: little bit of meta. Like I'm not sure if this
12:54
Speaker 2: is actually, you know, good for the book or maybe
12:58
Speaker 2: just a little bit too much power creep. Just The
13:00
Speaker 2: power creep with the gateways. There's so much power creep
13:03
Speaker 2: with the gateways.
13:05
Speaker 1: But there should be. They're really powerful technology. He doesn't
13:09
Speaker 1: break anything about the rules. He just thinks, what if
13:12
Speaker 1: I rotated it 90 degrees? What if it was laying
13:15
Speaker 1: flat along a different axis? And that's incredible power in
13:19
Speaker 1: just using the tool slightly differently. I was a little
13:23
Speaker 1: mad at myself that I hadn't thought of this as
13:25
Speaker 1: a critique of gateways before. Like, this is actually brilliant,
13:30
Speaker 1: and I should have been yelling at the books for
13:32
Speaker 1: not doing this sooner.
13:33
Speaker 2: I just, I kind of don't think it should be possible.
13:38
Speaker 2: I think that gateways should always be perpendicular to the ground.
13:43
Speaker 1: Oh, you think that should be a rule?
13:44
Speaker 2: I think that should be a rule. Like, I just,
13:47
Speaker 2: I think that we are, channeling in a lot of
13:51
Speaker 2: ways isn't the hardest of magic, right? It doesn't have
13:53
Speaker 2: set rules. A lot of times there's a lot of
13:55
Speaker 2: things on there that are like, Why can you only
13:57
Speaker 2: make gateways so big? Because you can only make gateways
13:58
Speaker 2: so big. Like, that's just a rule, you know?
14:02
Speaker 1: Why can't you lift yourself or heal yourself? Because you can't.
14:05
Speaker 2: Because you can't, you know? And it's like, I believe
14:07
Speaker 2: that why can't you do horizontal gateways? I believe it
14:10
Speaker 2: should be the same answer. Because you can't. Because they're vertical.
14:13
Speaker 2: It's death gateways are complicated enough with the moving of them.
14:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, that one does feel like even more of a reach.
14:19
Speaker 1: But no, I mean, I could see just, I don't know,
14:22
Speaker 1: just because you can't.
14:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:24
Speaker 1: I could see that as a limitation. That would be
14:27
Speaker 1: a limitation that make gateways a lot less useful.
14:29
Speaker 2: Yes. But it would also put some sort of limit
14:32
Speaker 2: on them, you know?
14:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That would nerf them, I think is the
14:35
Speaker 1: right term, right? Give them a limited utility.
14:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then we can also talk about, you know,
14:40
Speaker 2: pressure differences between gateway locations.
14:44
Speaker 1: I mean, the volcano scene being the most obvious one
14:47
Speaker 1: of those. But how does the pressure gradient even work
14:50
Speaker 1: in that context?
14:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if Jordan would have done that
14:54
Speaker 1: at all. It's such obviously a Sanderson's idea from start
14:57
Speaker 1: to finish. I love that scene because volcano, but yeah.
15:04
Speaker 2: No, it's a really cool scene. Don't get me wrong.
15:06
Speaker 2: But then it sort of goes, wait, how all the
15:09
Speaker 2: times we were going from a low-lying area to a
15:12
Speaker 2: high-lying area, like the pressure difference is incredible to the
15:16
Speaker 2: point where the wind coming through that gateway should be
15:18
Speaker 2: essentially– too powerful for someone to step through.
15:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. Gale force.
15:23
Speaker 2: Yeah.
15:23
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
15:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
15:24
Speaker 1: Like when Rand gateways to the top of dragon mount,
15:27
Speaker 1: there should be some real ear popping problems at that
15:31
Speaker 1: point rather than just stepping through.
15:33
Speaker 2: Especially because, I mean, he talks about dragon mount being
15:36
Speaker 2: so high, he had to create a bubble of air
15:38
Speaker 2: to survive, right? Like he had the chance. Yeah.
15:39
Speaker 1: It's in the death zone. He's literally in the death zone.
15:42
Speaker 2: Probably above it. Like it's, it's taller than Everest quite
15:45
Speaker 2: a bit.
15:46
Speaker 1: Well, you know, The death zone just continues on up.
15:48
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, sure.
15:49
Speaker 1: There's an upper limit to the death zone. But yeah, no,
15:53
Speaker 1: for sure. He's like above and beyond Everest's peak. There
15:57
Speaker 1: is basically no oxygen. So, so little. Yeah.
16:01
Speaker 2: So then you have to add in a whole like.
16:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, once you start picking apart that can of worms,
16:05
Speaker 1: then everything breaks. Everything breaks.
16:07
Speaker 2: And then you have to be like, oh, well, you
16:09
Speaker 2: can either turn on or off pressure regulation on your gateways.
16:13
Speaker 2: That is part of the channeling, I guess. Yeah.
16:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like when you put your thumb over the hose,
16:19
Speaker 1: you know, to like change the pressure. It's kind of
16:21
Speaker 1: like that.
16:23
Speaker 2: I'm going to spray you down.
16:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. As with most things magic, don't think about it
16:28
Speaker 1: too hard because magic doesn't actually work in the real world.
16:31
Speaker 1: So like eventually you will run up against where you
16:34
Speaker 1: have to set a rule. And will that break other rules?
16:37
Speaker 1: Like probably.
16:37
Speaker 2: I mean, talk about like gateway irrigation. I mean, what
16:41
Speaker 2: if you put one at the bottom of the ocean?
16:42
Speaker 2: You could float, you know. the pressure would be enough
16:45
Speaker 2: to just literally cut through people.
16:47
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, totally.
16:49
Speaker 2: Andral, Fingerwith Gateway, to the bottom of the ocean, water
16:53
Speaker 2: pressure spraying out at high enough, just cut Trollocs in
16:55
Speaker 2: half with a high-pressure water spray. I don't know. There's
17:00
Speaker 2: a lot of things you could do.
17:01
Speaker 1: And Mageddon even mentions that they could travel to other worlds. Yeah.
17:06
Speaker 1: One wants to wonder.
17:09
Speaker 1: Is that a gateway-based traveling thing, or does she just
17:12
Speaker 1: mean like spaceships, like traditional spaceships?
17:16
Speaker 2: I kind of figured it was gateways because if you
17:18
Speaker 2: can see another, you know, if you can use telescopes
17:21
Speaker 2: and you can use power-enhanced telescopes to see other planets
17:24
Speaker 2: and you can gateway from anywhere you know to anywhere
17:27
Speaker 2: you can, you know, have seen even vaguely or have
17:30
Speaker 2: a picture of, you should be able to gateway to
17:32
Speaker 2: other planets pretty easily. Which then we talked about like
17:35
Speaker 2: opening a gateway onto another planet, another atmosphere, space. Then
17:39
Speaker 2: you'd have to deal with pressure regulation, right? Like it's, oh,
17:43
Speaker 2: it gets complicated. And then you have relative motion, right?
17:45
Speaker 2: If these gateways are in one place, do you have
17:46
Speaker 2: to have the gateway moving relative to like, yeah.
17:50
Speaker 1: Oh, according to Athalon, Jordan did answer the question about
17:55
Speaker 1: traveling to other planets via gateway, presumably in an interview
17:57
Speaker 1: or whatever. And yeah, apparently up two way distance, it worked.
18:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:02
Speaker 1: A lot of questions about, so how do planetary mechanics
18:05
Speaker 1: create limits on that? Start really pulling on that thread.
18:08
Speaker 1: He's going to tell you to go, you know, get
18:09
Speaker 1: a dog or something.
18:13
Speaker 2: There is a certain amount of speculation that is, yes,
18:16
Speaker 2: this is a fantasy novel. Yeah.
18:18
Speaker 1: But it's really cool for making the war aspect of
18:24
Speaker 1: this book work, because as Bryn says, winning wars is
18:27
Speaker 1: about information. That also translates to effectively writing a war, right?
18:33
Speaker 1: Giving us the ability to have more of a bird's
18:35
Speaker 1: eye view that's narratively consistent helps the author make sure
18:40
Speaker 1: that the audience is not missing what's happening too much.
18:43
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of like, we don't necessarily want
18:45
Speaker 2: to be in the fog of war as readers, even
18:48
Speaker 2: though the fog of war is happening.
18:50
Speaker 1: Right, exactly. So this is a way for him to
18:53
Speaker 1: speed run some of that by adding like, what if
18:56
Speaker 1: we just literally could look down from above? Literal bird's
18:59
Speaker 1: eye view. Isn't that cute?
19:01
Speaker 2: I love the shoehorning the greys in to be the
19:03
Speaker 2: traveling Aja.
19:04
Speaker 1: Oh, the greys are useful. See, they're going to engineer
19:07
Speaker 1: this stuff. They have a purpose for sure, for sure.
19:10
Speaker 1: They're the intel Aja.
19:11
Speaker 2: The negotiating Aja is also the traveling Aja because they
19:15
Speaker 2: have to travel from place to place to negotiate. Okay, sure.
19:19
Speaker 1: It does definitely feel like a bit of a shoehorn.
19:20
Speaker 2: Sure, Jan.
19:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally.
19:23
Speaker 2: It feels more like the kin fill that role more effectively.
19:27
Speaker 1: I mean, I say why not have lots of... Of
19:29
Speaker 1: people that are capable of doing that.
19:31
Speaker 2: Sure. Sure.
19:32
Speaker 1: Like that's a good skill to just have. It's like
19:34
Speaker 1: basic healing. Everyone should have the basic ability to travel.
19:36
Speaker 1: This really shouldn't be an Aja specific weave. This should
19:39
Speaker 1: be part of the standard 101 weaves that you need
19:42
Speaker 1: to know before we let you off the island kind
19:44
Speaker 1: of thing.
19:45
Speaker 2: Because it is kind of a binary thing. Can you
19:47
Speaker 2: make a gateway or can't you? Right. There's no like, oh,
19:49
Speaker 2: I can. kind of gateway someplace. That's not you.
19:53
Speaker 1: You can link with people in order to make a gateway.
19:56
Speaker 1: So you still need to know the weave in case
19:58
Speaker 1: you're given enough backup power or have an Angrial.
20:01
Speaker 2: Right.
20:02
Speaker 1: So, yeah, they have not thought to put a rope
20:03
Speaker 1: around the gateway, which I find very disappointing. You almost
20:07
Speaker 1: just lost the magic pope. Into a hole in the floor.
20:10
Speaker 1: You really should have had a rope around that already. Totally.
20:14
Speaker 1: And then, essentially, Egwene and Bryn managed to talk up
20:18
Speaker 1: to the point of agreeing that they want to bring
20:20
Speaker 1: the sisters into a more offensive role in the battle.
20:25
Speaker 1: Bryn was like, I didn't know if I could expect that,
20:27
Speaker 1: but I do have some plans. And Egwene's like, are
20:29
Speaker 1: you going to fight me on this? Are you going
20:30
Speaker 1: to tell me that I used to die? I can't.
20:32
Speaker 1: And he's like, no, I was just waiting for you
20:34
Speaker 1: to suggest it first. Mm-hmm.
20:36
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, I was mostly using my troops. I
20:38
Speaker 2: didn't want to risk the Aes Sedai until I had permission.
20:41
Speaker 1: Which is fair. It's not his job to tell them
20:44
Speaker 1: that they are now frontline soldiers. But it's nice that
20:48
Speaker 1: he already had plans for, well, if they volunteer, I
20:50
Speaker 1: know where I want to put them.
20:51
Speaker 2: No, I do like the, and I have those documents
20:53
Speaker 2: right here, just in case you let me use the
20:56
Speaker 2: nuclear bomb.
20:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, a good general has the entire range of options.
21:01
Speaker 1: Even the ones that are not the most likely, he's
21:03
Speaker 1: already thought about them in case it does become likely.
21:19
Speaker 2: And that pretty much takes us to Matt.
21:21
Speaker 1: Who is discovering that the tinkers of all people, the Tuatha'an...
21:27
Speaker 1: are starting to congregate in droves at Ebu Dar.
21:31
Speaker 2: And we've seen them going to Sean Chan lands before
21:34
Speaker 2: because they're protected. So we know they've been gathering in
21:37
Speaker 2: the Sean Chan lands, and now it seems like they
21:39
Speaker 2: are gathering specifically around Ebu Dar.
21:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they passed some tinkers on the way to
21:45
Speaker 1: Ebu Dar. When he was running away with the circus
21:48
Speaker 1: and they said, oh, we've heard that it's safe there.
21:51
Speaker 1: And now he's coming back, what, maybe a month later
21:55
Speaker 1: or less?
21:56
Speaker 2: A month or two, yeah.
21:58
Speaker 1: And he's seeing, like, not just that one wagon train
22:00
Speaker 1: had that idea. Lots of the Tuatha'an have had that
22:03
Speaker 1: idea and are liking what they're seeing once they arrive.
22:07
Speaker 1: They are choosing to stay. Again, maybe a month. Not
22:11
Speaker 1: a super long time to get a feel for it,
22:13
Speaker 1: but much bigger than just the one wagon train he encountered.
22:16
Speaker 2: But I can see this being the source of like
22:18
Speaker 2: maybe a new manufacturing town, right? Because all the pots
22:22
Speaker 2: will be mended and it's like, well, what are they
22:23
Speaker 2: going to do? Well, they're going to start making more
22:25
Speaker 2: fancy metal things. You've got Rand's college who's going to
22:29
Speaker 2: need manufacturing production, right? Like I can see Abu Dhar
22:33
Speaker 2: being a manufacturing hub going forward based on the tinkers. Yeah.
22:38
Speaker 1: I mean, they even talk about in the two rivers,
22:40
Speaker 1: like they've got a bunch of lace makers. No, it's
22:43
Speaker 1: an Andor. Either way. industry is moving because of where
22:47
Speaker 1: people have decided to relocate.
22:49
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:50
Speaker 1: I could totally see Abu Dhar being a place of
22:52
Speaker 1: peace and fine craftsmanship, right? Everyone's so peaceful and prosperous
22:56
Speaker 1: and whatever, whatever, that all they do is make really
22:59
Speaker 1: fine handcrafted art awesomeness. And it's just the lap of luxury.
23:03
Speaker 1: That's definitely what the Shan Chan think they're going to
23:06
Speaker 1: make out of the city. And it seems like they
23:07
Speaker 1: have the ingredients to do that. We'll see if they
23:10
Speaker 1: do or not, but they have the ingredients for it.
23:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. And, uh, Athlon's also mentioning like this is seeing
23:16
Speaker 2: the Tuathuan around Ebu Dar is, you know, kind of
23:19
Speaker 2: one of the things that broke Rand and being like, oh,
23:22
Speaker 2: my God, if the slaver Sean Chan can actually create
23:24
Speaker 2: this peaceful society, what am I doing wrong?
23:26
Speaker 1: Which just occurred to me like the layers of that
23:29
Speaker 1: with him being a son of the lost Ayyul. like
23:33
Speaker 1: a lost son of the lost Aiel, like the true
23:36
Speaker 1: ones we were supposed to protect, the ones that have
23:40
Speaker 1: always needed the most protection, according to the Aiel way
23:42
Speaker 1: of thinking, they're only safe under the slaves, under the slavers,
23:46
Speaker 1: not under me, who should be their son and savior. Literally,
23:50
Speaker 1: my enemies are taking better care of my ancestral cultural people. Like, oh,
23:55
Speaker 1: it just occurred to me there's even more layers to
23:57
Speaker 1: that than was on the page.
23:59
Speaker 2: There's quite a few with, well, I mean, yeah, Rand, obviously.
24:02
Speaker 1: Always, always.
24:03
Speaker 2: He has an inheritance from everybody. Yeah.
24:06
Speaker 1: But yeah, if the Dashae and Aiel were like, I mean,
24:10
Speaker 1: they were kind of servants, but one assumes they were
24:11
Speaker 1: also fine crafters, right? They probably weren't just body servants.
24:14
Speaker 1: They were probably also like expert weavers and painters and
24:16
Speaker 1: estheticians and like all kinds of, you know, cool stuff.
24:20
Speaker 1: If the Tinkers, if the Taothan can settle down into
24:24
Speaker 1: a city and just be crafters, that is kind of
24:27
Speaker 1: like the song that they've been looking for ever since
24:29
Speaker 1: the Age of Legends ended, right?
24:30
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, because again, the song isn't a real song.
24:34
Speaker 2: It's a philosophy.
24:35
Speaker 1: The song is a vibe. And then even Matt, with
24:38
Speaker 1: his relative lack of understanding all of that context, is like,
24:41
Speaker 1: a city of Tuatha'un seems like as weird as a
24:44
Speaker 1: city of Aiel. Hmm, like, yeah, because they're basically the
24:47
Speaker 1: same people and they're not meant to be as cities.
24:50
Speaker 1: But then as he thinks, like, there is a city
24:52
Speaker 1: of Aiel now, right? Ruidian getting settled by people. And
24:56
Speaker 1: also we know in Ovienda's visions, and we can imply
24:59
Speaker 1: from Rand's piece that like, There will be a yield
25:02
Speaker 1: that settle into wetlander cities and create, you know, a
25:06
Speaker 1: little wasteland or whatever in like the larger metropolitan cities
25:09
Speaker 1: of the world. The world is changing. Where people live
25:12
Speaker 1: is not going to be the way it was necessarily.
25:15
Speaker 2: No, because we are we are approaching what is a
25:17
Speaker 2: modern world and things are going to change a lot.
25:21
Speaker 2: And we have to go through the Industrial Revolution, but
25:23
Speaker 2: we're going to get there and maybe faster because we've
25:25
Speaker 2: got channeling.
25:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
25:27
Speaker 2: It's a lot easier to melt down certain alloys, create electricity, right?
25:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So yeah, Matt is trying to subtly
25:35
Speaker 1: sneak into the city as just another wounded sellsword. He's
25:40
Speaker 1: got the bandage around his eye. His nice clothes are
25:44
Speaker 1: all put away. He's trying to be very scruffy. And
25:47
Speaker 1: he tries his whole backstory shenaniganry thing again. And it
25:51
Speaker 1: gets the same amount of shutdown as it should have
25:53
Speaker 1: last time. or as it did last time, really. It's
25:55
Speaker 1: just completely unnecessary, and I love that for him.
25:58
Speaker 2: And also just not part of Matt's character. I don't
26:00
Speaker 2: understand why Sanderson keeps trying to shoehorn in this, like,
26:03
Speaker 2: I tell him, I create these elaborate backstories. Matt has
26:06
Speaker 2: never bothered to do that. He's always gone in by
26:09
Speaker 2: the seat of his pants.
26:10
Speaker 1: Well, he does now. He's done it twice now, so
26:13
Speaker 1: it must be a real thing.
26:14
Speaker 2: He shoves explosives in a hole and lights them on fire.
26:17
Speaker 2: You know, like, he doesn't think twice about doing things. Impulsively.
26:21
Speaker 1: No, he spent the last three days of writing coming
26:23
Speaker 1: up with an elaborate backstory just to have it get
26:25
Speaker 1: shut down.
26:26
Speaker 2: No, it's not my Matt.
26:28
Speaker 1: Hashtag not my Matt.
26:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:30
Speaker 1: And then as he's going through the gate, he notices
26:32
Speaker 1: that Petra, the strongman from the circus, is working as
26:36
Speaker 1: a gate enforcer. So again, people who were very mobile,
26:40
Speaker 1: who were turned around and headed away last time he
26:43
Speaker 1: saw them, are settled here.
26:46
Speaker 2: And wearing a Sean Chan uniform? No. So I did
26:49
Speaker 2: some research. No evidence as to what's going on with
26:51
Speaker 2: Val and Luca's circus other than this.
26:54
Speaker 1: That's upsetting. Let's suggest that the circus was broken up.
26:58
Speaker 2: One would assume or Petra left or.
27:01
Speaker 1: No, Petra and Clarine always wanted to go start an inn.
27:04
Speaker 1: They didn't want to stay in the circus life forever.
27:06
Speaker 1: And Matt did give them some money to get started
27:08
Speaker 1: when he left. So maybe they just split and the
27:11
Speaker 1: circus is fine.
27:12
Speaker 2: Right.
27:13
Speaker 1: Or maybe the circus was going to get broken up
27:15
Speaker 1: because the Sean Chan didn't have all of their licensing
27:18
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I don't know.
27:20
Speaker 2: But as far as I can tell, this is the
27:22
Speaker 2: only information about the circus we have is this mention
27:25
Speaker 2: of Petra.
27:25
Speaker 1: Oh, that sucks. I kind of forgot to ever follow
27:28
Speaker 1: up on that. But this is the only follow up
27:31
Speaker 1: we get at all.
27:33
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have anything else on Val and
27:35
Speaker 2: Luca since I think Path of Daggers or something like that.
27:39
Speaker 2: Look that up really quick. Last appeared, Knife of Dreams.
27:45
Speaker 2: Last mentioned, Towers of Midnight. Wow. So, yeah, I mean,
27:49
Speaker 2: Val and Luca, and as far as I can tell,
27:50
Speaker 2: the circus, you know. I don't know if there's a
27:53
Speaker 2: mention I'm missing or some other person, but yeah. Essentially,
27:59
Speaker 2: Sanderson dropped him. Dropped the circus for all intents and purposes.
28:02
Speaker 1: Bummer.
28:04
Speaker 2: Because, you know, he was big in Knife of Dreams,
28:07
Speaker 2: and that was Jordan's last book. Well, that sucks. So
28:11
Speaker 2: we kind of have to assume that... I mean, I
28:12
Speaker 2: kind of assume the circus is still going on and
28:14
Speaker 2: that maybe he's just working as a soldier for a
28:16
Speaker 2: little extra money for the inn.
28:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we'll headcanon that. So then Matt talks
28:21
Speaker 1: about the Rahad and how that's different.
28:25
Speaker 2: It's managed a little bit better.
28:27
Speaker 1: It's kind of the whole, like, Sean Chan, don't let
28:28
Speaker 1: the slums exist. So Sean Chan just don't allow slums
28:31
Speaker 1: to exist. They simply don't. And then we have... A
28:36
Speaker 1: very interesting retrospective take by Sanderson on Matt's time.
28:40
Speaker 2: With Tylan.
28:41
Speaker 1: In Ebudar with Tylan. It actually, while I was being
28:45
Speaker 1: assaulted and all that, actually it was the best time
28:47
Speaker 1: of my life. And I feel very comfortable in this
28:49
Speaker 1: city and I have no trauma whatsoever. And Sanderson literally
28:52
Speaker 1: writes there to be no trauma. He says he feels
28:55
Speaker 1: comfortable in the city. He feels at home in the city.
28:59
Speaker 1: This was the best time. Tylan was fun. He actually
29:02
Speaker 1: writes a non-traumatized Matt, and I find that to be
29:06
Speaker 1: more egregious than the storytelling thing.
29:08
Speaker 2: I think the traumatized Matt thing went right over Sanderson's head.
29:11
Speaker 2: I don't think he has any idea that it happened. Agreed.
29:13
Speaker 1: It's real obvious here that he did not pick up
29:17
Speaker 1: what anybody was putting down for that. Jordan might have
29:21
Speaker 1: fumbled how he wanted us to take it, but he
29:24
Speaker 1: wanted us to take it as a thing that needed
29:27
Speaker 1: to be thought about. Sanderson did not think about it.
29:29
Speaker 2: No. Jordan was clearly playing the role reversal when he
29:32
Speaker 2: wrote that. Whether he did it successfully, whether it evokes
29:36
Speaker 2: the right emotions, those things can be debated. But he
29:38
Speaker 2: was clearly going for a role reversal. where the rape
29:41
Speaker 2: wasn't being taken seriously. And that's a problem.
29:45
Speaker 1: And Sanderson just didn't register that it was a problem.
29:51
Speaker 1: Straight up didn't register.
29:53
Speaker 2: And we all, we read through all of his trauma
29:55
Speaker 2: responses that happened after that event and how they're written
29:58
Speaker 2: into the books, like.
29:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, this should be him going into the city going,
30:02
Speaker 1: I feel so much less comfortable here than I had
30:05
Speaker 1: thought I would be. This is giving me a creeping dread.
30:07
Speaker 1: This is giving me bad memories. This particular street is
30:10
Speaker 1: giving me a certain kind of flashback. Like that would
30:13
Speaker 1: have been much more consistent to what had happened in
30:16
Speaker 1: the books. But this is just like, yeah, no, that's
30:18
Speaker 1: not that's not my Matt. That's not the Matt that
30:21
Speaker 1: I was following.
30:22
Speaker 2: At the very least, a lot more guilt over tying
30:25
Speaker 2: up Tylan and kept leaving her for dead.
30:27
Speaker 1: I mean, he does have a whole paragraph of guilt
30:29
Speaker 1: about it.
30:30
Speaker 2: But then he, you know, this is what drives me nuts.
30:34
Speaker 2: It's like he has a whole paragraph of guilt about
30:35
Speaker 2: it and then acts like that paragraph doesn't exist. You know? Yeah.
30:39
Speaker 1: It's a contained paragraph. All the grief in a neat paragraph.
30:43
Speaker 2: Yes.
30:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's none of the Tylan stuff is having the
30:47
Speaker 1: impact it should have at all. To say nothing of
30:51
Speaker 1: how excited he is to see Tuon for reasons I
30:53
Speaker 1: still don't understand, given all the threats that she's made
30:56
Speaker 1: at him. But yeah, he walks into here with a
30:58
Speaker 1: level of emotional comfort that just feels really, really strikingly incongruous.
31:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, I struggle with Matt's relationship to Tuan, I
31:07
Speaker 2: think mostly because of the way Tuan is written by Sanderson.
31:10
Speaker 2: You know, the Tuan that Jordan was writing was a
31:12
Speaker 2: changing Tuan, an evolving Tuan, a Tuan who was seeing
31:16
Speaker 2: the right way of things. And then she reverted. And
31:19
Speaker 2: Sanderson also gives us a lot of characters who are
31:22
Speaker 2: the way they are, described and not based on the
31:26
Speaker 2: way they act it's like he sees how they're described
31:28
Speaker 2: and says oh that's the actual character when in reality
31:31
Speaker 2: they act in a different way they describe themselves they're
31:35
Speaker 2: unreliable narrators.
31:36
Speaker 1: About themselves sanderson can't comprehend what an unreliable narrator would
31:41
Speaker 1: be like and then and then we get another annoying
31:46
Speaker 1: matt thing where he compares finding the right tavern to
31:49
Speaker 1: being like finding a pair of boots Just a shoehorn
31:52
Speaker 1: in his shitty boots metaphor again, because we're just all
31:56
Speaker 1: about repeating bad beats with Matt this chapter.
31:59
Speaker 2: Right, right. And it's like if they were clever, good beats,
32:02
Speaker 2: I could see that working, but because they're not. Boothorning.
32:07
Speaker 1: Yes, Athelon, we are definitely boothorning.
32:10
Speaker 2: Boothshoehorning, nice.
32:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just this whole section is just like gagging
32:16
Speaker 1: emojis everywhere. Make it stop.
32:18
Speaker 2: At Boudar, women wore dresses with tight-laced tops that showed
32:21
Speaker 2: plenty of bosom. Not that Matt looked. Yes, you did.
32:23
Speaker 2: That's why you noticed that there was plenty of bosom,
32:25
Speaker 2: because you're looking.
32:27
Speaker 1: Also, the, like, total, like, cultural supremacy where he's like,
32:31
Speaker 1: everyone outside of the Two Rivers and to a lesser
32:33
Speaker 1: extent Andor is insane. Your fashions are dumb. I don't
32:36
Speaker 1: understand why your fashion is that way. My fashion's better.
32:40
Speaker 1: It's like, shut the fuck up, you chauvinistic twat.
32:43
Speaker 2: Well, and that's also not the Matt we've seen. We've
32:46
Speaker 2: seen a Matt who's come to really appreciate other cultures
32:48
Speaker 2: and really loves other cultures. Not this Matt who's like,
32:51
Speaker 2: Andor is superior. No, Matt is probably the least Andor
32:54
Speaker 2: is superior out of the three boys.
32:56
Speaker 1: Except in this chapter.
32:57
Speaker 2: Except in this chapter. Yeah.
32:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's really annoying.
33:02
Speaker 2: I don't know. More and more people are like, oh,
33:04
Speaker 2: you know, Sanderson really messed up Matt in the first book,
33:06
Speaker 2: but he gets it better in the next two. I'm like,
33:08
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. I think he's just messed
33:10
Speaker 2: Matt up all three books pretty bad. After reading this,
33:16
Speaker 2: this is bad. This is bad, Matt.
33:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, I feel like everything to do with Matt, too,
33:21
Speaker 1: on the Sean-Chan, even Lyle went as a Sean-Chan, right?
33:25
Speaker 1: Anything that the Sean-Chan touched, Sanderson does not take in
33:28
Speaker 1: directions that we find satisfying.
33:30
Speaker 2: True. Yeah. Because he ignores the moral quandaries.
33:33
Speaker 1: The Americans ruin everything.
33:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
33:36
Speaker 1: Exactly. If you ignore the moral quandaries, it's going to
33:40
Speaker 1: feel weird and hollow and incongruous and... hypocritical and contradictory. Yeah,
33:46
Speaker 1: I agree, Fuji. Andor's not nearly horny enough for Matt.
33:49
Speaker 1: Matt definitely was like, my hometown is not where it's at.
33:52
Speaker 1: I really like other places. But no, now he's suddenly like, well,
33:56
Speaker 1: my hometown is best.
33:58
Speaker 2: It's not true, Matt. And then we get Jordan Conn.
34:02
Speaker 2: I mean, the yearly brawl. Yeah, yeah.
34:05
Speaker 1: I was wondering how deeply the fandom was being referenced
34:08
Speaker 1: through this whole section. I did like this part. This
34:11
Speaker 1: part felt like conversations that could happen at a con. Yeah.
34:15
Speaker 2: So, James and Kathina are named for James and Jennifer Liang. Yes!
34:21
Speaker 2: The two high-profile moderators at Dragonmount.com and coordinators of JordanCon.
34:26
Speaker 2: These are the people, and they get quite a bit
34:29
Speaker 2: of screen time. And let me tell you, if you've
34:32
Speaker 2: met the two of them, which I have, lovely people,
34:37
Speaker 2: wonderful people, exactly like they are on the page. Right? Like, these, like, amazingly,
34:43
Speaker 2: you know, and... You know, the representation of one from
34:46
Speaker 2: Sean Chan, one local, right? Like, there's a certain amount
34:50
Speaker 2: of writing these people onto the page in a way
34:54
Speaker 2: that he doesn't do. A lot of the other people
34:56
Speaker 2: get a mention, right? Get a name, get a character.
34:59
Speaker 2: And you can tell the characters in there for the story,
35:01
Speaker 2: and then he just drops a name in there, and
35:02
Speaker 2: that's it. These two people, all of this description is
35:06
Speaker 2: absolutely from personal experience with how wonderful they are.
35:09
Speaker 1: And that was the vibe I got. I was just suddenly,
35:11
Speaker 1: I felt like I was in a cosplay scenario.
35:14
Speaker 2: We're just all.
35:15
Speaker 1: Hanging out, chatting, like in costume, on set. But like,
35:18
Speaker 1: it just, yeah, it felt like a con. I have
35:21
Speaker 1: not met these people. I have never been to JordanCon.
35:24
Speaker 1: And yet I still got that warmth, that sense of connection.
35:28
Speaker 1: And like all the bitching about the prior three pages aside,
35:32
Speaker 1: this feels so real. Not necessarily to Matt, but to me.
35:35
Speaker 1: the fandom. These people are believable. And I remember actually,
35:39
Speaker 1: I posted an episode months and months ago on our
35:43
Speaker 1: Blue Sky or whatever, and Jennifer Leigh Ann commented on it.
35:47
Speaker 1: You are not yet to my cameo, but it's coming.
35:49
Speaker 1: It's coming. I think it was during last book. She
35:51
Speaker 1: was like, ah, yeah, my cameo is not until book
35:53
Speaker 1: three because it was one of the episodes where I
35:55
Speaker 1: was like, oh, we found so many names. And she
35:56
Speaker 1: was like, more are coming. I am coming. You just
35:59
Speaker 1: have to get to the book. So I was wondering
36:03
Speaker 1: where and if I would recognize her name because I
36:04
Speaker 1: was looking at her name being like, I don't remember
36:06
Speaker 1: that for the page, but I'm glad you could tell
36:08
Speaker 1: me that this is hers.
36:10
Speaker 2: Katana?
36:10
Speaker 1: Katana? Katana. Katana.
36:13
Speaker 2: Kathana. And Jennifer is her name. I don't know where
36:16
Speaker 2: the Kathana comes from, but Jennifer is the name of
36:19
Speaker 2: the person in real life. And James. And they are
36:24
Speaker 2: a married couple. And have been married for a long time.
36:26
Speaker 1: Which this couple clearly isn't because of, you know. how
36:30
Speaker 1: long does Sean Chan have been over here? But they
36:31
Speaker 1: have the energy of a mere old married couple. I
36:34
Speaker 1: had to double check. If he's from Sean Chan, why
36:37
Speaker 1: do they have this energy? Because they're based on a
36:40
Speaker 1: couple who did not meet a mere year and a
36:42
Speaker 1: half before this interaction.
36:44
Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's that moment where he says, how long
36:46
Speaker 2: have you been married? And he's like, well, I'm from
36:47
Speaker 2: Sean Chan, so not long. And I'm like, that's... He's like, canonically,
36:52
Speaker 2: I can't make them married for long because of the
36:55
Speaker 2: Sean Chan storyline. But realistically, I mean... Dragonmount.com. Those two. JordanCon.
37:03
Speaker 2: Those two.
37:04
Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's really cool that they got such a
37:07
Speaker 1: long scene and so much actually. I mean, they're talking
37:11
Speaker 1: with Matt. They get to literally talk to Matt and
37:13
Speaker 1: be characters in Matt's reality and impart important information. And
37:18
Speaker 1: that's a really appropriate hat tip to the JordanCon audience.
37:22
Speaker 1: dragon mount people.
37:23
Speaker 2: And just the the hospitality that she's doing with matt
37:27
Speaker 2: like you need food you have to look at the
37:28
Speaker 2: man who hasn't eaten anything in a hearty week right
37:30
Speaker 2: like the way she takes care of people the way
37:32
Speaker 2: they take care of people at the con also she's
37:34
Speaker 2: seen the type that would lecture a tree for growing
37:37
Speaker 2: in the wrong spot there's a certain amount of like
37:40
Speaker 2: taking charge that has to happen with jordan khan So
37:43
Speaker 2: there is a certain amount of that, like, yes, you're
37:45
Speaker 2: in the wrong spot.
37:46
Speaker 1: Move.
37:47
Speaker 2: Get going. Right.
37:49
Speaker 1: That's delightful. That's just lovely.
37:51
Speaker 2: And then this woman must never be allowed to enter
37:54
Speaker 2: the same room as Nynaeve, at least when I'm not
37:56
Speaker 2: within shouting distance. Like, there's just so much goodness there,
38:00
Speaker 2: especially around Jennifer. I didn't see as many good quotes
38:03
Speaker 2: about Jame, but he's the support. Right. He's the guy
38:07
Speaker 2: who's always going to be there to make sure she
38:08
Speaker 2: gets what she needs.
38:10
Speaker 1: That's great. And it's a good info dump, too. It's
38:13
Speaker 1: not like they're shoehorned in just to make them there. Like,
38:16
Speaker 1: they give Matt an important little nudge in how he
38:20
Speaker 1: wants to approach reconnecting with Tuan, right? Being angry about
38:24
Speaker 1: the assassination situation, right? Like, that changes how he approaches
38:28
Speaker 1: coming back into the palace.
38:30
Speaker 2: And they spot him right away, right? Like... No, but
38:33
Speaker 2: these are pages and pages and pages. I mean, there's
38:35
Speaker 2: multiple pages here of the interaction, and I love it,
38:38
Speaker 2: and it's fun to read, but I don't have necessarily
38:40
Speaker 2: much more to say about it.
38:42
Speaker 1: The other important thing about Ebu Dar is that the
38:45
Speaker 1: Shan-Chan have essentially shut down dueling by making it such
38:49
Speaker 1: a bureaucratic legal process to duel that now people can't
38:53
Speaker 1: do it. It's not illegal to duel, but it's illegal
38:55
Speaker 1: to duel without a permit. And so now duels are
39:00
Speaker 1: going away. but not without actually making them illegal. And
39:03
Speaker 1: I just thought that was a little interesting note on
39:06
Speaker 1: how social controls work from these top data imperializing governments.
39:10
Speaker 2: Just make it so bureaucratically pain in the butt. No
39:14
Speaker 2: one wants to fill out the paperwork after they murder somebody. Yeah. Yeah.
39:17
Speaker 2: Makes sense.
39:18
Speaker 1: You're welcome to do that, but we're going to need
39:20
Speaker 1: like witnesses and a fee and a scheduled time with
39:24
Speaker 1: a court.
39:25
Speaker 2: And, like... That's essentially how we keep cops from killing
39:29
Speaker 2: people in this country. We just make it inconvenient with
39:31
Speaker 2: paperwork because that's the only thing stopping them.
39:34
Speaker 1: We keep cops from killing people in this country?
39:36
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm saying. That's the only motivation. It's
39:38
Speaker 2: like it keeps it below a certain threshold. Ah, I
39:40
Speaker 2: see what you mean. They still get to do it with,
39:43
Speaker 2: you know, willy-nilly. They just have to fill out some paperwork.
39:46
Speaker 1: Uh, yeah.
39:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
39:48
Speaker 1: Pay to play. Violence edition. But that was the only
39:52
Speaker 1: other thing about the world that I thought was really interesting.
39:56
Speaker 1: It was just like, huh, so that's how the Shang-Chan
39:58
Speaker 1: handle things they don't like but can't get rid of
40:01
Speaker 1: because of cultural reasons. That's something to take note of.
40:04
Speaker 2: And then I guess what they do is they mistake
40:06
Speaker 2: him for an assassin because there are all these assassins
40:08
Speaker 2: coming through to take out Tuan, hired by Gulgan.
40:11
Speaker 1: Right. Right, which we know from Tuan's perspective, that's Galgan
40:14
Speaker 1: just signaling to her, like, look, I'll take out some
40:16
Speaker 1: low-hanging fruit to show you the extent of my power
40:19
Speaker 1: and loyalty. Matt takes it as a threat.
40:21
Speaker 2: And respect.
40:21
Speaker 1: Right, Tuan interprets it as like, oh, this is, yeah,
40:24
Speaker 1: a respectful threat display rather than a real attempt to
40:29
Speaker 1: hurt her. I also love how Kithana's like, you know,
40:32
Speaker 1: you need a hat. You don't have– you look like
40:36
Speaker 1: you should be wearing a hat. And then he puts
40:38
Speaker 1: the hat on and she's like, yeah, that's what I–
40:40
Speaker 1: I saw the hole. I saw the hat-shaped hole over
40:42
Speaker 1: your head.
40:43
Speaker 2: You don't look enough like Odin without the hat. Right.
40:46
Speaker 1: Basically.
40:46
Speaker 2: Right.
40:46
Speaker 1: Like there's an archetype in my mind and you're so close.
40:50
Speaker 2: But– And then he– once he puts the hat on,
40:52
Speaker 2: they're like, it's him. They recognize Matt because.
40:55
Speaker 1: He's– I do like this one line from Matt. I
40:58
Speaker 1: never kill a man unless he demands it with screams
41:01
Speaker 1: and thunder so loudly. I figure it would be impolite
41:03
Speaker 1: not to agree to the request. That is the kind
41:07
Speaker 1: of run-on sarcasm I do expect from Matt.
41:09
Speaker 2: That is good Matt. That is good Matt writing. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
41:13
Speaker 2: And so I don't really get the how did you
41:14
Speaker 2: make it through the city gates? And Matt's like, by luck.
41:17
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, of course by luck. What do
41:19
Speaker 2: you mean?
41:20
Speaker 1: Is there any other way? Yeah. But, you know, he
41:24
Speaker 1: decides to be sneaky until he decides to not be sneaky.
41:27
Speaker 1: And it works precisely right. As soon as he decides
41:30
Speaker 1: to stop being sneaky, he's immediately recognized and thus he
41:34
Speaker 1: can move forward with his life. And that is the
41:37
Speaker 1: end of the POV.
41:37
Speaker 2: We have....
41:52
Speaker 1: One more POV for today. And that is some eye
41:57
Speaker 1: of the world grade goodness where Rand and Moraine are arguing. Actually,
42:00
Speaker 1: it's maybe more like great hunt.
42:02
Speaker 2: But yeah, this is the class. Well, I'm not sure
42:06
Speaker 2: how much this is a manufactured argument where she's like,
42:08
Speaker 2: you need to go to Shale Gould right now. He's like, no,
42:10
Speaker 2: I need to protect my friends for a little while.
42:13
Speaker 2: And he's basically saying the timing needs to be right.
42:15
Speaker 2: And she's saying the timing is now.
42:17
Speaker 1: And I would say that because of the black hole
42:20
Speaker 1: nature of the dark one and the spread out nature
42:22
Speaker 1: of the battle, they're both correct. He needs to have
42:25
Speaker 1: this fire of urgency lit under his ass and he
42:28
Speaker 1: needs to get around to it in his own good time.
42:30
Speaker 1: Both things are true, I think. Because at a certain point,
42:34
Speaker 1: it will always be the right time. Like when he goes,
42:37
Speaker 1: it will be the right time. But also if he
42:40
Speaker 1: puts it off forever, then bad things will happen. He
42:43
Speaker 1: does still need a fire under his ass to an extent.
42:45
Speaker 2: Because he can't. take on he can't protect his friends
42:48
Speaker 2: this is this is what they keep nailing into us
42:50
Speaker 2: about rand is he can't protect all of his friends
42:53
Speaker 2: he has to let them fight their own battles and
42:56
Speaker 2: he's not doing that and that's what moraine is calling
42:58
Speaker 2: him out on basically is saying hey you need to
43:02
Speaker 2: let your friends you can't protect them right you should
43:06
Speaker 2: be at shale ghoul right now that is your destiny
43:08
Speaker 2: not these lesser fights my friends die here i thought
43:11
Speaker 2: you were beyond such weakness compassion is not a weakness
43:15
Speaker 2: And then sort of that's that's the crux of the argument. Right.
43:18
Speaker 2: Is he's like, I'm I can help my friends. And
43:20
Speaker 2: she's like, that's not your fight.
43:21
Speaker 1: Right. And the argument compassion is a weakness.
43:25
Speaker 2: Is it?
43:25
Speaker 1: Well, is this compassion or is this your ego guilt?
43:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:30
Speaker 1: Or is this your fear, your guilt?
43:32
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:32
Speaker 1: Like compassion is not a weakness, but is this compassion?
43:37
Speaker 1: That's really the question. Like, I don't think compassion is
43:40
Speaker 1: necessarily a weakness, but that I don't think is actually
43:43
Speaker 1: the question. Why are you doing this? I don't think
43:46
Speaker 1: it's compassion. Because you know that everyone needs to throw
43:48
Speaker 1: themselves into the meat grinder to make this work. You've
43:51
Speaker 1: been processing that. It's been happening. So don't call this compassion.
43:56
Speaker 1: Call this the guilt and the fear that it is.
43:58
Speaker 1: But no, he doesn't do that. He attempts to prove
44:01
Speaker 1: that he can in fact save everyone and he nearly
44:03
Speaker 1: gets his ass handed to him again.
44:04
Speaker 2: Right.
44:06
Speaker 1: He goes through the gateway. Five minutes later comes stumbling
44:08
Speaker 1: back looking like he got pulled through a knothole backwards. It's...
44:13
Speaker 1: It's not compassion. It's ego that he's trying to pull
44:17
Speaker 1: off here. He still thinks he can protect everyone, even
44:19
Speaker 1: when he empirically cannot. In the moments that he's trying
44:23
Speaker 1: to protect everyone, he's still failing.
44:25
Speaker 2: Because he's basically going up against, I mean, he's kind
44:28
Speaker 2: of walking into a trap, right? There's this moment where
44:31
Speaker 2: the channelers are driving Lance's forces back, and they're kind
44:35
Speaker 2: of waiting for him to make his appearance. They saw
44:37
Speaker 2: him do it on the other battleground, and they're like,
44:40
Speaker 2: I bet he's going to pop in, try and decimate everybody.
44:43
Speaker 2: Let's make sure we've got a full circle waiting for him.
44:45
Speaker 1: Right, exactly. They've created a bit of a predictable rhythm,
44:49
Speaker 1: and he is guilty enough and emotionally driven enough over
44:54
Speaker 1: Lan's willingness to accept his help that he doesn't realize
44:57
Speaker 1: that if the enemy knows where he's going to be,
44:58
Speaker 1: he's already lost the battle.
45:00
Speaker 2: Right. Great generals unite.
45:02
Speaker 1: Yeah. He's already on the back foot, right? They know
45:06
Speaker 1: you're going to be there, so don't be there.
45:08
Speaker 2: But, you know.
45:09
Speaker 1: He looks at Lan and Lan's like, oh, we don't
45:11
Speaker 1: need you to protect us. And Ran says, but I
45:13
Speaker 1: want to protect you. And Lan says, I really want
45:15
Speaker 1: you to protect us. And it's the wrong call. It's
45:17
Speaker 1: the wrong call. But there's, you know, Lan just recently
45:22
Speaker 1: had to realize that he needed to abandon Malkir, right?
45:24
Speaker 1: He's really struggling with that to an extent, even though
45:28
Speaker 1: he's formally made the decision.
45:29
Speaker 2: And he doesn't want to, you know.
45:31
Speaker 1: Exactly.
45:32
Speaker 2: Exactly.
45:32
Speaker 1: He has guilt, too. They're both operating from a place
45:35
Speaker 1: of guilt.
45:36
Speaker 2: He's hoping in this moment that maybe Ran can take
45:38
Speaker 2: Malkir back for him.
45:39
Speaker 1: To do what he did at Maradon, to reestablish the line.
45:43
Speaker 1: But before he runs off to make a mess of things,
45:45
Speaker 1: he does distract Lan with a crown. A pair of crowns, actually.
45:51
Speaker 2: A recreation of the crown of Malkir. Yeah.
45:54
Speaker 1: He actually smithed his and Nynaeve's crowns for after this
45:58
Speaker 1: is all over. This promise of the future. You're both
46:01
Speaker 1: going to live and you are going to retake Malkir
46:04
Speaker 1: and you're going to wear these crowns when necessary. that
46:07
Speaker 1: gets reestablished. It's this really beautiful seed of a promise.
46:11
Speaker 2: And I do really like the way that crowns have
46:13
Speaker 2: had significance. You know, remember when Min was like, oh yeah,
46:17
Speaker 2: the crown of Ilion, I know what it looks like,
46:20
Speaker 2: or I know what your crown should look like because
46:21
Speaker 2: I've seen it in a vision, right?
46:22
Speaker 1: The new crown of Tyr, yeah.
46:24
Speaker 2: Is that Tyr, not Ilion? Okay, thank you.
46:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they didn't have a king, right?
46:28
Speaker 2: Min sees the new crown of Tyr in a vision. Right, right, right.
46:32
Speaker 2: They never had a king. And so she's like, yeah,
46:33
Speaker 2: I've already seen the future. So I know what it's
46:35
Speaker 2: going to look like, which is a little bit of,
46:37
Speaker 2: you know, bootstrapping. Does the crown create itself? How? Like
46:41
Speaker 2: who actually designed the crown? Nobody.
46:43
Speaker 1: Min designed the crown.
46:45
Speaker 2: Min.
46:45
Speaker 1: Just out of her imagination.
46:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
46:49
Speaker 1: I also like the visual of Lan kneeling, holding the crown, right?
46:53
Speaker 1: He's like on his knees, opened up this package and
46:56
Speaker 1: is like, holy shit. And that's the way that Rand
46:59
Speaker 1: walks out of the tent is leaving Lan with the
47:02
Speaker 1: symbol of being on top of the power structure. but
47:05
Speaker 1: kneeling on the ground. It's pretty poetic.
47:09
Speaker 2: Sure.
47:10
Speaker 1: So Rand goes forth and reveals that he has the
47:15
Speaker 1: fat little man on grill. He recently went back to
47:18
Speaker 1: Dumas Wells and found it stuck in the mud.
47:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you hate that as much as I do?
47:24
Speaker 1: That feels like a retcon on a plot hole.
47:27
Speaker 2: It does. It feels like he wrote this with him
47:29
Speaker 2: having the on grill and later was like, oh shit,
47:32
Speaker 2: he lost that at Dumas Wells. How do we get
47:35
Speaker 2: it back to him? Oh, we'll just have him like
47:37
Speaker 2: make a gateway and go check it out and find it.
47:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not a fan.
47:40
Speaker 2: Especially since it happens off screen in a way that
47:42
Speaker 2: just felt very. Oh, yeah. Now he's got this on
47:45
Speaker 2: real when on real been so important and everyone's like
47:47
Speaker 2: been carefully kept track of and all this kind of stuff.
47:51
Speaker 1: I would have rather it be that he found a
47:53
Speaker 1: new one. maybe one from a similar set and was like,
47:57
Speaker 1: what amazing provenance that I found another random box in
48:00
Speaker 1: the back of the attic that happens to be in. Oh,
48:03
Speaker 1: maybe there was like a set of 10. It was
48:05
Speaker 1: like collect all 10 in five different shades or whatever.
48:07
Speaker 1: Better than just finding it again.
48:09
Speaker 2: Especially since this on Greal feels like Jordan, a very
48:13
Speaker 2: personal on Greal for Robert Jordan. I don't know. I'm
48:16
Speaker 2: not having, I don't know. I don't like this, this
48:18
Speaker 2: on Greal coming back in this moment in this way.
48:21
Speaker 2: Especially since he fails with it, you know? Like, it just.
48:25
Speaker 1: This fight starts out so good.
48:27
Speaker 2: It's a fun fight. It's a fun fight, for sure.
48:30
Speaker 1: Right?
48:31
Speaker 2: It's just he is completely overwhelmed.
48:33
Speaker 1: But he goes out at first and just lets his
48:35
Speaker 1: Teviren-ness kind of stir the weather and then add this
48:41
Speaker 1: multiplicative force to his power, and he realizes it's easier
48:45
Speaker 1: to direct than to control, and he's really like, riding
48:49
Speaker 1: the storm right he's surfing on this wave and it's
48:54
Speaker 1: really glorious it really looks like he's going to succeed
48:57
Speaker 1: at first.
48:58
Speaker 2: Totally totally no and i really like this um well
49:01
Speaker 2: i i like the idea i'm not sure i like
49:03
Speaker 2: that it's explicitly pointed out but where he says essentially
49:07
Speaker 2: when light confronts dark that's what causes the storms and
49:10
Speaker 2: like that goes back all the way to naive sensing
49:12
Speaker 2: the storm coming right we've always sort of known that
49:15
Speaker 2: the storm was the confrontation of the dark one and
49:18
Speaker 2: the last battle. But here he explicitly says the storm
49:22
Speaker 2: happens whenever light confronts dark.
49:24
Speaker 1: Turbulence along a evilness gradient.
49:29
Speaker 2: The pattern, the balance of the pattern and stuff like that.
49:32
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's one of those things that I thought
49:34
Speaker 2: has always been implicit, but now it's explicit on the page. Yeah.
49:39
Speaker 1: And he thinks that this is going to be a
49:41
Speaker 1: direct head-to-head confrontation with Taim. That's kind of what he
49:46
Speaker 1: seems to be thinking is going to happen, right? This
49:50
Speaker 1: is a fight that Luz Theron had wanted to start
49:52
Speaker 1: for a long time, but Rand hadn't dared to. He's
49:54
Speaker 1: even shouting, I hoped you had come. It's kind of
49:57
Speaker 1: a little bit of LTT come get me from Demondred energy.
50:00
Speaker 2: But do you think it's Taim? Because isn't Taim in
50:04
Speaker 2: the Black Tower, like, with Loghain?
50:05
Speaker 1: No.
50:06
Speaker 2: Okay.
50:07
Speaker 1: No, it's not Taim. That's the thing, is that Rand
50:10
Speaker 1: is fully convinced of that, and that's not what's happening,
50:13
Speaker 1: and that's why this goes so badly, is this is
50:16
Speaker 1: a feint. This is a gambit. This is a come
50:19
Speaker 1: and get me and then run into the woods and
50:22
Speaker 1: get murked sort of trap. He thinks he's getting Taim,
50:26
Speaker 1: but it's exactly the same as Demondrede, getting a succession
50:29
Speaker 1: of his half-brothers and then teacher instead of him himself.
50:33
Speaker 1: And it starts out with a bunch of shields that
50:35
Speaker 1: are easy for him to bat off, and then it
50:39
Speaker 1: turns into a full circle shield, right? He just walks
50:42
Speaker 1: right into it with the blasé attitude of Elaine in
50:45
Speaker 1: book five.
50:47
Speaker 2: Or Elaine in this book later on.
50:49
Speaker 1: I mean.
50:51
Speaker 2: She does get Brigitte killed. That's all I'm saying.
50:53
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. So he leaves. He ducks out
50:57
Speaker 1: of the fight. He flees from combat and stumbles back
51:01
Speaker 1: into face Moraine looking significantly more disheveled. And she says,
51:06
Speaker 1: did you learn your lesson? And he says, kind of.
51:09
Speaker 2: Couldn't fight this war personally. Not this time. He would
51:12
Speaker 2: have to find another way to protect his people. It's like, yeah,
51:14
Speaker 2: by fighting the dark one. That's to go fight the
51:18
Speaker 2: dark one.
51:18
Speaker 1: Do your job.
51:19
Speaker 2: And I could also see him being like, I don't
51:22
Speaker 2: really want to die. So I'm going to put that off. Right.
51:24
Speaker 2: There may be also an aspect of like procrastination going
51:27
Speaker 2: on here.
51:29
Speaker 1: He is willing to die on his own good time.
51:32
Speaker 1: He has a plan for how he's walking up to
51:34
Speaker 1: this and he's not going to rush any of the steps,
51:37
Speaker 1: which is fair. It's a big decision. But also Moraine's
51:40
Speaker 1: job is to crack the whip on him getting up there.
51:43
Speaker 1: And that's all I've got for that chapter.
51:45
Speaker 2: No, yeah, that's that's it.
51:47
Speaker 1: Episode 600, pretty quick and simple.
51:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. Not sure what happens to the dozens of dreadlords
51:53
Speaker 2: he ends up fighting there, and they just end up
51:56
Speaker 2: at Marilor, I guess, in the last battle. Yeah, there's
51:59
Speaker 2: a little bit of just sometimes there's so much going
52:03
Speaker 2: on in the last battle, I think we lose certain
52:05
Speaker 2: groups of channelers, certain groups of fighters in the mix.
52:09
Speaker 1: All roads, all plots, all threads lead back to Marilor.
52:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sam and Asai, I also agree. It seems like
52:15
Speaker 2: the fat man gave him, like, A 5% edge when
52:18
Speaker 2: he was using it before, and here it feels like
52:20
Speaker 2: it doubles his strength or triples his strength, you know?
52:23
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be a minor Angriel.
52:26
Speaker 1: Everything's bigger now.
52:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything's bigger, everything's faster, everything's easier. Is it that
52:32
Speaker 2: the Angriel is more powerful? Or is Rand just that
52:34
Speaker 2: much more powerful? And that a little boost in his
52:37
Speaker 2: abilities gives him, like, enough power to do some crazy things?
52:41
Speaker 2: Because he is a very powerful channeler, and he's at
52:43
Speaker 2: his peak power now, after Veins of Gold.
52:45
Speaker 1: I think it's mostly Rand. I think it's mostly that
52:49
Speaker 1: he's leaning into his Taviran nature and he's not fighting
52:52
Speaker 1: his connection to the land and he's accepted his full LTT-ness.
52:57
Speaker 1: I think it just all adds up to a much
52:59
Speaker 1: more effective, efficient, frictionless use of his abilities.
53:05
Speaker 2: Well, yeah. Well, I think with that, thanks for joining
53:08
Speaker 2: us for this nice short 600th episode. Holy crap.
53:13
Speaker 1: Holy crap.
53:14
Speaker 2: And yeah, don't forget to, you know, if you're getting
53:17
Speaker 2: sad about the ending of this podcast and the end
53:19
Speaker 2: of the final book, join us for our Dungeon Crawler
53:23
Speaker 2: Carl podcast. I think that's been a lot of fun and,
53:28
Speaker 2: you know, really enjoyable to podcast about. Yeah.
53:31
Speaker 1: And if you're missing out on more Wheel of Time
53:34
Speaker 1: community fun, definitely go check out the What Idol podcast.
53:39
Speaker 1: finalist playlist the playlist of all the songs the final
53:44
Speaker 1: 16 that was an amazing community experience as per usual
53:48
Speaker 1: seeing all of the creativity and love that went into
53:51
Speaker 1: that the voting system this year was way better there
53:55
Speaker 1: was live voting for the final best in show but
53:58
Speaker 1: voting for all the categories was done on your own
54:00
Speaker 1: time and Alyssa of One Power Ballads is who actually
54:05
Speaker 1: won best in show this year with an absolutely amazing
54:09
Speaker 1: entry as soon as i saw her entry i knew
54:12
Speaker 1: that was going to be the winner like there's no
54:13
Speaker 1: contest that's the winner that is the winner she did
54:17
Speaker 1: miley cyrus's wrecking ball but it was this amazing dramatic
54:23
Speaker 1: fully acted fully set piece fully costumed and choreographed oh
54:28
Speaker 1: my god so many people as shayil's entire story was
54:32
Speaker 1: titled dragon wall And I'm like, I know the original.
54:35
Speaker 1: I remember the original music video with Miley Cyrus pole
54:39
Speaker 1: dancing on a literal wrecking ball chain. This was such
54:43
Speaker 1: a departure from the original. And it was done so well.
54:47
Speaker 1: So fantastic. But this was a really good year. There
54:51
Speaker 1: was so much really good stuff this year. Highly encourage
54:54
Speaker 1: people to go check that out. The live streams are
54:56
Speaker 1: obviously a fun time, but the playlists are... A lot faster. Yeah,
55:00
Speaker 1: my entry was very much Russian at the last minute,
55:02
Speaker 1: like I said, so I didn't get any awards recognition.
55:04
Speaker 1: That's fine. That's what you get when you do a
55:06
Speaker 1: very half-assed project at the last minute. But, oh my god,
55:09
Speaker 1: so many earworms this year. I've had so many of
55:12
Speaker 1: them so stuck in my head. So stuck in my head.
55:16
Speaker 1: So yeah, really do encourage people to go check that out.
55:18
Speaker 1: And yeah, otherwise, I think we should close out this
55:20
Speaker 1: year's 600th episode of the show. Have a quick snack
55:25
Speaker 1: and go, uh, Meet Samantha.
55:29
Speaker 2: Samantha. All right. See you later.
55:33
Speaker 1: Bye.
55:57
Speaker 2: Do do.
56:30
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
56:33
Speaker 1: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
56:36
Speaker 1: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad-free episodes. What Spoilers
56:41
Speaker 1: is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For more
56:44
Speaker 1: podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website at foxandravenmedia.com.