Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Tom Jones

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Tom Jones · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, Today we'll hear Rick Rubin talk to
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: one of his all time favorite vocalists, Tom Jones. In
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the mid sixties, when artists like The Beatles and Bob
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Dylan were starting a counterculture revolution, Tom Jones was getting
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: his start singing old standards in fifties rock and roll
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: at clubs around South Wales. Jones signed his first record
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: deal in sixty four and went on to release now
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: timeless hits like It's Not Unusual and Green Green Grass
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: of Home. With the soulful baritone and unique interpretation of
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: American arm being gospel, Jones became a mainstay at hip
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: cabaret clubs in London, New York, and Vegas. It became
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: commonplace for female fans to throw their underwear on stage
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: during his performances. Of course, that later became a trope
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: of the sex symbol crooner. On today's episode, Tom Jones
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: shares stories with Rick from his remarkable career, including the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: first time he met Elvis on a movie set in
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Hollywood and the night he turned down an invitation to
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: join Little Richard on stage in La out of fear
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: he'd be deported. He also talks about why he thought
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Bert Backer Act's lyrics to What's New Pussycat or a joke?
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: The first time he heard of this is broken record
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: line of notes for the digital age. I'm justin Mirichmond.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Here's Rick Rubin and Tom Jones. The last time I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: saw you was I want to say seven, seven or
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: eight years ago in Las Vegas, backstage after you, after
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: you sang and hit. It was beautiful night for me.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I guess it was a regular night for you, because
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: that's what you do all the time. It was a
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: long time ago, though, it was longer than because I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: haven't been a Vegas now for about twelve years. Could
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: it be that long? I can't believe it. Yeah, amazing.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I don't think you've done the Johnny Cash albums either
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: at that time. Really, I must have and you you
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: hadn't done. I know you wouldn't done the Neil Diamond one. Really,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Is that true? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, because I remember when
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the Neil Diamond one, I called him and said how
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: good I thought the album was, and that's it's It's
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: quite a while after I saw you. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: that was a good one. I liked that one too. Yeah,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I love that album. I think it's the best album
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: he's ever done. Wow, that's incredible. Yeah. I loved him
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: since young, like you, you know, like like same era
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: of I saw you guys both when I was a
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: kid growing up on TV. Yeah, and I got to
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: see you perform when I was young. My parents brought
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: me to see you at Westbury Music Fair on Long Island.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So I saw you. Yeah, probably sometime in the seventies,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I would imagine, would that makes sense? Yeah? But with Neil,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: you know, we started at the same time in the sixties.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I remember meeting him in London in sixty five, you
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: know when I when I had it's not unusual and
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: he was he was writing then for different people, you know.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I think he had done something with Lulu. Yeah, he'd
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: done a few things with British artists at the time.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Tell me about the world of music. Was nineteen sixty
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: three when you started? Yeah, when I went. I went
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: to London in sixty three. I recorded. In sixty four,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I did a song called Chills and Fever, which was
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: which was a sort of a rocket roll thing because
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: in those days, Peter Sullivan, the guy that became my
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: recording manager, he saw me singing in dancels and clubs
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: in Wales, and I was doing basically fifties rock and roll,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: and so he thought that that would be the way
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: to get me going, you know. Yeah, So we found
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: this song called Chills and Fever, which was done by
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I called Ronnie Love I think his name was. It
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: was an R and B record, you know, and we
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: sort of we made it more into a rocket roll record,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and I mean it just it sort of read just
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: said slightly but nothing. It was a hit in Australia.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I remember that. So then we had to rethink, you know.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: And I was doing demos in London, Gordon Mills with
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: my manager and he was writing for Leeds Music and
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: so I used to do demos for different things and
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: then he wrote It's not Unusual and I did the
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: demo on it. It was for Sandy Show really, who
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: had some hit records at the time, and so when
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I heard it, I said, this is it. You know,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: this sounds like a hit record to me. Yeah, And
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: then Peter Sullivan said, well, if you're going to do it,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: you know, we've got to pump it up because it
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: was a milder song, you know, it's a sort of
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: a Brazil sixty six type feel to it. But I
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: was basically fifties rock a roll music. That's where I
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: lived really, you know before that. But then you get
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: strange with recordings, as I'm sure you know, but it
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: sort of starts to lay a path, you know, because
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I did. It's not unusual with brass. People wanted the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: record company anyway, Decca Records, what did more of the same,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: And then Bert Backer acted What's New Pushycat for the
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Woody Allen film, and then I go again, you know,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: with a pop record, and I all the time I
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: wanted to do like Wilson Pickett, you know, and I
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: was into soul music by that time, but I could
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: never get an original song, you know. If I was
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: going to do a soul type thing, it was it
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: would have to be covers, you know. So What's New
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Pushy Cat? Then we didn't know what to do after that,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: so then I did The Green Green Grass of Home.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: So it's always different things sort of pop up. Originally
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: it was more fifties rock and roll for you yeah,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: oh yeah. When I was doing in the clubs and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: pubs and dance halls in Wales where I come from,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: South Wales, that's what I was doing. You know, it
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: was Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis Presley and Fats Domino,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Chuck Berry, a little rich they were. They were the ones,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: you know when I listened to all the record those
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: records today still sound fantastic. Yeah, Little Richard records, it
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: sound like they're going to explode. They're so exciting. Oh,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: you know, to get away from those sometimes I'll try
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: and listen to the radio nowadays, you know, which which
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: says some there's some decent stuff. But once I start
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: to stop playing fifties rock and roll music, I got
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I got a job to get away from it. As
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: far as listening is concerned, I'm boogie records, you know.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I love boogie woogie. You know, Pete Johnson and Albert
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Hammonds and mid Lux Lewis, professor long hair, you know
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: those people. I love that kind of stuff. How about
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: the blues? Has the blues been a part of your
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: repertoire as well listening? Yeah? Well, when I was young ish,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I was always listening to voices. I liked the way
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: people sounded. I think that's what it was. So like
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: when I hit Majeleia Jackson sing, Oh my God, you know,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: those those gospel songs came to life. I mean, we
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: were singing those songs in chapel, in the Presbyterian Chapel,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: same songs, you know, a lot of them were, but
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: not like that. So that got me interested in black
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: gospel music and rhythm and blues, you know, but mostly
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: New Orleans type. You know. I loved Louis Armstrong. I
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: loved that stuff that was coming out of New Orleans.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: The blues. As far as the blues were concerned, Lead
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Belly I'd heard, but my favorite was always Big Bill
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: bruns was always more musical to me than some of
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: the other ones that came a little later, like Muddy Waters,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: you know, and there was more of sort of electric
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: blues with Big Bill Brunsy. He was playing acoustic acoustic
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: guitar and like fingerstyle, you know, more than but very rhythmic,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: you know. He was very rhythmic within himself, just playing
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and singing. So as far as the blues was concerned,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I would say Big Bill Brunsey was was the one
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: that I was listening to. There. Have you ever considered
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: making a gospel album? Yeah, well, when I did Praise
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: and Blame, you know, with Ethan John's we did. We
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: did some Ain't No Grave, you know, going to hold
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: My Body down in and we did quite a few
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: gospel songs then, but I've never actually recorded a whole
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: album of gospel songs, which it could happen. And the
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: same thing with blues. There's a lot of big Bill
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Brunsey stuff that I would love to I would love
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: to do. There's a lot of possibilities. It's always, as
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: you know, it's where do I Where do I go
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: from here? You know what? But you've got to have
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: some kind of theme. You've got to have some kind
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: of idea to link the stuff together, as opposed to
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: just going in there and recording a mishmash of material.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Because I like so many different types of songs as well,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: you see, yeah, you know, I mean I still love
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Frankie Lane, you know when Frankie Lane came out, So
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I like those big sort of soulful ballads, you know,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: like I believe. Yeah, But then again that's of a
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: gospel nature as well. You see, in the early days
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: in Wales, what was the music scene, like you were
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: of rock and roll age. It's funny because the perception
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: of you is not in the world of rock and roll. No,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, but as I was saying recording
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: those songs in my early record, it's it's not unusual,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: you know, and then what's your pushy at it? It
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: sort of takes you that way. But my love has
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: always been fifties rock and roll music before anything else. Yeah,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Jerry le Lewis is still Jerry le Lewis. Yeah. And
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I suppose agewise, you were probably contemporary with the Beatles now, yeah, well,
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: the same thing. See, we were all the Beatles, the Stones,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Van Morrison, Joe cockab we were all listening to those
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: earlier fifties Walker Role music. When when anybody has asked
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: what was the first Walker Role record, it's always Rock
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: around the Clock from Blackboat Jungle, you know, from the movie.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: And I know everybody will tell you the same thing,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: all of our age. And then when I when I
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: realized that they when I'd asked musicians about them later on,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: that things were might individually would say had never done
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: with a rhythm section before. That's why they sounded so hot. So,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: you know, I remember asking Count Basie about it, you know,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I said, what do you think of rock a room music?
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: You know, Why do you think it sounded so different?
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: He said, because they spent more money on it. He said,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: this all comes from rhythm and blues really, but those
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: early black records that were being made, they didn't have
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the money to spend, you know, to make them sound
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: like the records. Then that came later, like when when
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Little Richard then came on the scene. They were black
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: records still, you know, but they sounded much better than
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: the earlier records. You know that the black entertainers recorded.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Living in Wales, was it hard to hear this music?
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: How did you get to hear it? Yeah? While on
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the radio, you see. But the BBC they had to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: play everything because we didn't have any regional stations, you know,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: we didn't have a gospel station or a country station.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: It was all the BBC. And then there was a
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: station that came out of Germany called Radio Luxembourg that
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: you could get if you had the right wilet, you know,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the right radio set you could you could pick that
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: up and they played more blues, gospel, country than rock
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and roll. And when I heard something and I thought,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: what is that? You know, why is that different? Because
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: you know, I was born in nineteen forty so the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: big band music was still being played, you know, and
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: and Frank Sinatra and those singers that sang with bands,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: you know, they were bands that were that were being
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: So that was the music. I'm very Lynn you know
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: in the war after the war, those songs that Very
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Lynn would sing. So they were the things that I've heard.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: But then you get that occasional American R and B,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: you know, a blues record that would come on or gospel,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: you know, and I knew it was different, and a
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: lot of people my age, we were we were being
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: influenced by that. You know, when you heard it, you
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: think that's different, Why is that different? Why does that
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: sound like that? Who is that? And then you look
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: you look into it. Then what were the other big
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: voices from your youth that you just felt like, these
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: are the voices that are inspiring. Well, Frankie Laine was
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: definitely one. And Billy Daniels and Old black Magic. You
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: know when he sang old black Magic, I get I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: get a kick out of you. You know, that was
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: different that he sang it, different to what Frank Sonato did,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Billy Eckstein when he did I Get a kick it
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: was like you know he meant that he was really
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: getting the kick it was, you know, yeah, the way
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: with the words so oh in Tennessee Ernie Ford. When
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I first heard those boogie records that Tennessee Ernie Ford
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: did Catfish Boogie and Black Betty Boogie, and I think
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: they were the beginning of that rock and roll sound
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: you know that was being done because it was a
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: heavily piano I think it was Moon Mulligan was playing
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: piano I think on those records, so that they were
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: definitely different, but they were boogie records. You see. Were
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: you a fan of any of the previous generation singers
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: like the Sinatras that came before rock and roll was
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: well or not so much, not so much afterwards. Funnily enough,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I learned to appreciate Sinatra when I got older. No,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't a fan of of that music,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: you know, and roll. When rock and roll kicked in,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: it was like a breath of fresh air. You know,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, you know, this is
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: this is tremendous. And all the musicians, you know, when
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: singers at the time hated it, you know, the established
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: singers because they couldn't do it, yeah, you know, And
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: it's a strange thing because I was talking to musicians
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: when I was in the fifties. I was working in
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: a glove factory making gloves, and all these glove cutters,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: these guys that were making the gloves by hand, they
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: were musicians, you know, they were amateur musicians, are playing
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: in dance bans and everything, and rock and roll would
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: come on the radio and I would be like with
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the ruler, you know, banging this desk. Work to do
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: one too was like Jesus. So they said, what is
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: that crap? You know? And I said, well, what's the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: matter with you? It's tremendous. And they were trying to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: get me to listen to, you know, other other music,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and I said, nah, no, this this is it, and
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: they said, well it's it's it's nothing. It's easy to do.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Then I would go and watch them in these bands
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: that they were playing in and they would try and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: play them, you know, and they couldn't do it. They
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: just could not do it. It's a strange thing. Elvis
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Presley used to talk about it when he first went
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: on television to try and get those TV bands in America,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: like the Dorsey brothers. When he went on there, they
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: couldn't play it. Yeah, Quincy Jones was telling me, he said,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: they it wasn't happening. Yeah, and until he until he
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: brought his rhythm section in, you know. So it's a
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: strange thing. And boogie, you know, boogie music is the same.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: You know a lot of piano players they don't think
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: much of boogie boogie, but get him to play it. Yeah,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: it's the it's a feel thing. It's like, if you
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: don't feel it, it's not it's not about playing it right,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: It's about feeling it. And the same the way you sing,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: even though you have essentially what feels like an operatic voice,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: there's a groove always when you're singing. So I asked
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: about the blues earlier. It's like it feels like there's
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: a groovyness always. Yeah, in your interpretations, you know, there's
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: always a blues There's a blues element on all the
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: songs that I've done, you know, even the ballads. There's
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I tend to lean towards bluesy notes, you know, whenever
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I can inject them in there. Yeah, you know, it
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: sounds more like you, and it makes it feel more
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: personal and it makes it feel more soulful and more
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: from the heart than just singing the notes of the song,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, well that's that's what I felt about
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of the singers that came prior to to that,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you know, the big band things, and the songs didn't
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: didn't register with me, except for the ballads. I mean,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I always loved my Funny Valentine, and I always loved
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Autumn Leaves. You're recording of Autumn Leaves is staggering. Oh,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: thank you, I love it. I was twenty four then,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: so good. Yeah, well, let you see that first album
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: that I did, you know, along came Jones. I had
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: to do that song. I always loved that song since
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I was a child. But then you know, Memphis Tennessee
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: is also on There You See Ye and I Need
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: You Love It. You know, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: whoa whoa Dan Dan. You know, it's like on the
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: same album. Yeah, how how old were you when you
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: went to London? I was twenty three and then I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: recorded that I was twenty four. And how did it
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: work out for you to get signed? And tell me?
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Tell me the first experience going to London. Well, when
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: I did. I did an audition, you know, they'd heard
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: me sing demos, you know, we were sending demos to
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: different record companies and Decca Records. Peter Sullivan he heard
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the demo that I sent and asked me, when I
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: come to London and do an audition, you know, which
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I did, and he said, fine, we'll sign you if
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: you fancy it. You know, for three singles. It's like
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: three three three strikes that you're out, you know, It's
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: like you get three. Yeah, So we did Chills and
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: fever where because he'd he'd heard me singing, you know,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and saw me in these clubs when he came to
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: see me and thought a rock and roll record would
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: be the way to go. So that was the first one,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: and then it's not unusual it was a second record,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: so that I was that I was flying, then amazing
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: and that and that essentially has been I guess it's
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the song most associated with you still to this day
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: of everything. I think, yeah, yeah, it is. Well, well,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I think maybe because I had a TV show with
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the late sixties early seventies, and we always opened the
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: show singing that live. You know, I sang it every
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: time live on the show. So I think people heard that,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: you know, more than than anything else. Because anytime anybody
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: sees me, if they're going to sing something at me,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you know it'll be It's not unusual. Tell me about
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: the TV experience. What was that like having a TV show?
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: It was fantastic because I could then get people on
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: that I that I wanted, Like Jerry le Lewis was
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: on one of the shows, Little Richard was on the shows,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: and then a lot of motown action of Stevie wondered
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: had just come on the scene. Ray Charles came on.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Janis Joplin came on, and she wouldn't do variety shows
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: in those days. You know. She said, I'm only doing
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: it because it's you. Wow. And I said, well, thank you,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: and we did it. We did a hell of a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: duet together, I remember. Great. Did you do duets with
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: everyone who came on? Everybody? Yes, wow, fantastic. Yeah, it
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: was tremendous. And Wilson Pickett, you know, we did Hey
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Jude and Barefoot and Gray and Ray Charles, you know,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and yeah, everybody everybody that was around in those days.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: But I had a push for Little Richard and Jerry
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Lee Lewis you know, because they said, oh fifties Rocket
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: rolled and I said, look please. Once the show was
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: a success, I had more of a of a saying it.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I mean I tried. I wanted to get Chuck Berry.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I wanted to I wanted to get Fats Domino, you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I wanted a lot of people. But if they weren't
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: selling records at the time it was, it was difficult
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: to get them on. We have to take a quick break,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: but we'll be right back with more from Rick Rubin
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and Tom Jones. We're back with more of Rick Ruben's
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: conversation with Tom Jones. How has the live experience changed
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: from the time you were young to now? Just in
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: terms of what's it like, What was it like when
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: you started, what was monitoring like, what were the audiences like,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: what what were the venues like? Talk about all of
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the different things you've seen over the years, because you've
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: you've seen it changed completely from the early days. I imagine.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, growing up in Wales, you know, I
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: would saying first of all, in school, you know, and
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: in chapel you know, that's what I that's what I
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: learned to get in front of an audience gatherings and
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: weddings and parties in the house. And I come from
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: a large family with the aunties and uncles and cousins,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: and we all were all singers really, So there was
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of singing going on in South Wales, and
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: everybody loved singing, you know, and there were a lot
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: of singers. So I would go and watch them when
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I was old enough to go into the local club,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Workerman's Club, and there were singers that would get up
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: there and sing songs Frankie Layne songs, you know, and
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: songs like my Mother's Eyes. You know. There was this
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: big rugby player that used to get up there and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: all a Sunday night, Me and my teenage you know,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: we'd say, oh, come on, Glenog his name was Glenog Evans,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: great name, come on, give us a song, you know,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: sing my mother's eyes, you know, sort of half making
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: fun of him. Well by the time he finished, there
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: wasn't a dry eye in the place, you know. I mean,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: this felt I could like, I mean, he'd do it,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: you know, he just stand there and sing the shit
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: out of my mother's eyes and you think, oh my god,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: that's it. So I got that and then listening, as
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: I say, to too early, to the blues and to
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: gospel and stuff on the radio. You know, that's what
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I was listening to. So I would I would incorporate
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: that sometimes when I would get up in, but I
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: would always like, For instance, when I took a rock
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: and roll band into a workermen's club. This was in
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: the late fifties, they had never seen electric guitars in
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: these clubs and drums, you know. But I was saying,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I was singing with this local band in a YMCA.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: So I said to them, do you fancy coming into
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: one of these workingmen's club because I've I used to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: play guitar and saying, you know, just like that in
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: these clubs. Would you fancy it? Oh, well, we've never
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: done it. I said, well let's try it. So we
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: go into this workermen's club, and they had a habit.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: If they didn't like you, they would shout pay him off,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: which means pay you not to play. Yeah, just pay
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: them and get them out here. So when we were
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: walking in with the amplifiers you know in the guitars
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and the drum, oh Jesus Christ, you know, we don't
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: want any of this crap. But I've been there before.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: You see, I've been to these clubs, you know, I'm saying,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: and I get up and saying, oh, look, fellas, you know,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: please give us a shot here because you know me.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, you were lovely Tommy. Tommy's got a lovely voice.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: But we don't want this rock and roll. So I
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: said to the band the first time, I remembered it
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: so well, and I said, look, we'll start off with
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I believe fully enough. Yes, I said, we'll do it.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: We'll do it. I believe We'll do my mother's eyes,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: we'll do we'll do my Yiddish, your mamma, because I
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: heard Billy Daniels do it. So we would do these things.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: And then when everybody was like, yes, yes, we get it,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: we love it, all of a sudden that that that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you check my nerves and you ran up, you know
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like they were like in you know.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: So that was it. Yeah. And then in one night
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I remember from just pay them off when we first
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: walked in about halfway through the night, the fellow that
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: had booked us there, he said, if I called the
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: police station and get an extension on the liquor, you know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the Liquor Loves only went to like eleven o'clock. He said,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: if I could get the Liquor Loves to twelve, would
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: you play until midnight? Wow? I said, yeah, if you
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: if you pay us a few you know, a few
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: more pounds. So it was all in one night from
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: pay them off to could you could you stay till midnight?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I move, move all the tables and chairs back, and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: they all had a dance, you know. So we took
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: rock and roll music into these workingmen's clubs and then
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: they would have they'd have dances on different nights of
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: the week. And they were starting then to get a
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: lot of younger people coming in because it was a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: mother's of moms and dad's place to start with, which
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't get a lot of teenagers going into. So
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: then they would start to come into these places. So
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: we built a reputation of playing pop music really, you know,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: but but a lot of fifties rock and roll. But
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: it was in there and they were loving it. So cool,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: What a great story. I love. I love hearing about
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the and you ended up turning them onto rock and
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: roll and they ended up loving it. Yeah, And I
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I thought to myself. If it's as long as it's
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: presented properly, you know what I mean, as long as
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: you go into their place, rather than try to get
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: those older people to come into a dance hall with
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: a band playing all records being played, rock and roll records.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: You know, they wouldn't be they wouldn't they wouldn't want
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: to go and do that. But go to them with
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: it and present it in a way. As long as
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: you can do some ballads as well, you know, as
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: long as you can do stuff that they can understand,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: then you can do Johnny be Good, you know. Yeah,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: what were the first performances you did once you were
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: in London? What were those like? Well, it was I
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: was doing them mostly in South Wales and then came
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: in and did the record contract, you know, got the
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: records out. Then I was playing quite a lot of
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: American basses because the Americans were still in Britain, you know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: in the early sixties, you know, air force bases especially,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: so we would go and play these places. So I
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: became very popular in these American Air Force bases when
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I had It's not unusual what even before that, before
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I had the hit record, we would play them and
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: so I knew a lot of American songs, you see,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: which the gis loved. So I was you know, we
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: sort of built up a bit of a reputation in
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: these American servicemen's clubs. What was the first time he
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: came to the United States? That was to do an
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: At Sullivan show. Fantastic, yeah, in the early sixty five.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: It was amazing. It's not unusual. Came out in January
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the twenty second, nineteen sixty five, and it was number
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: one by March the first, you know, in Britain, and
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: it was released in the States and he went to
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: number ten on the one hundred Top one hundred. So
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: then they booked me on the Ed Sullivan Show, and
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I became he liked me, you know, so I think
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: I did like six d Sullivan shows. Wow. Great, Yeah
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: in sixty five, and the TV had gone to color,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: so they couldn't transmit in color from New York, so
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: the Ed Sullivan Show had to go to Los Angeles
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: to transmit in color. So then I went to to
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: La I met Elvis Presley. Wow, how was that Trema?
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, when I used to sing in these clubs
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: in ways, right, and I would do Elvis Presley songs
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: of course, and my friends used to say, wow, Tom,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: you know you sing that as good as Elvis Presley.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I said, well, I'll tell him that, and they said, oh,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: come on, you know, I said, I said, I got
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: a feeling that I'm going to meet Elvis Presley. I
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: had this feeling. So when I went to Paramount Studios
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: in the LA to talk about a song for a movie,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and they said, Elvis is here today and he would
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: like to meet you. Jesus. I mean this was in
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: September of sixty five. Wow, you know, And I said,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: my god, I didn't even know that he knew anything
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: about me. So I went on to the set and
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: he was in a mock helicopter. He was doing this
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: the trades Fair I think the movie was with this
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: little girl in this helicopter. And I'm standing in the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: back of the set close set in this hangar with
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the Memphis Mafia, and they stopped filming and he waves,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: you know. So I'm like just standing there and they
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: said to me, Elvis is waving at you, you know.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Oh really, So I waved back and I had a
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: song out at the time. It was my third single.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: It was a ballad called with These Hands, and Elvis
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Presley come out of the helicopter and he's walking towards me,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: singing with these hands. And I thought, my god, if
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the boy's back home could see me now, you know.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: And he did it like Alvis Presley, you know, he
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: pointed at me at the same time, you know what
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, the way Alvis used to put his hand up,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: you know, and he's like with his hair, I will
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: cling to you. And I thought, my god, here comes
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Elvis Presley singing my song. It was like it was surreal, unbelievable, unbelievable.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a dream. What you're describing a dream.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: It was like a dream. And he said to me,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: how the hell do you sing like that? Honestly? And
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I said, it's listening to people like you. He said yeah,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: but I was brought up with it, you know. He said,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I was going into black gospel churches as a boy.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Do you have any black gospel churches in Wales? I
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: said no, you know, the only black people are down
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: in Cardiff, in Tiger Bay, you know. But I said,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: it's it's from the radio that i've I've these songs.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: And he couldn't believe that I sound like I sound
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: coming from where I came from. Yes, you know, yes,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: unless you were born there, you know, unless you were
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: born that he couldn't understand it. Yeah, but in the
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: same way he got to hear it by being there.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: You got to hear it by hearing it on the radio.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: But it was still it was still coming through one
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: way or another. The inspiration was there, and you were
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: exposed to it and you got to feel it. Yes,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I knew the difference when I would hear my Halio
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Jackson sing, you know, I would know the difference for
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the sound of her voice. So I was attracted to it.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: So just like Elvis was more attracted to black gospel
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: churches as he was to white you know. So you've
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: got to be attracted to it in order to know
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: what it is, and whether it's on the radio or
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: whether it's life, you've got to go to and think, well,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: what is what is that? You know? Why is that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: sounding so wonderful and uplifting and unreal that they sound
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: like they mean it? When you when you came to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the US to do the Ed Sullivan Show, would you
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: also do live performances for audiences as well. I couldn't
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: bring my band, you see, so that was a problem.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: So I had nobody to do shows with. Really. I
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: remember the first time I met Little Richard was in
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: sixty five, and I'd seen him do shows in England,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: you know before. But I was in Los Angeles doing
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the Ed Sullivan Show. So I said to my manager,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I think I'll stay for a couple of weeks, you know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: just to see what's happening in LA. And so he
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: said to me, well, look, your visa has run out. Now.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: You know, you only get a visa for a week
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: to do the Ed Sullivan Show. Now you know, if
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you're going to stay any longer than that, you're not
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: on a visitor's visa. You know, you don't have. You're
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: illegally in the country, right, So he said, for God's sake,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: don't get up in a club or something and draw
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: attention to yourself. So I said, no, okay, I won't.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: So I'll go to see Little Richard. He play in
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: a club just off sunset. So I'm backstage with him
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: and were chatting away and it was great. And so
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: he introduces me when he's on stage, and he asked
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: me to get up on the stage, and I wanted
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: it because I knew every little Richard song. So he said,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: come on, let's do this one. And I said, I can't.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I can't, I can't. You know, I can't do it. Honestly,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I would love to, and I still think of that
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: now to this day. I think, my god, you know,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: why didn't I just do it? You know, but I
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: was so scared of of immigrations, you know, I locked
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: me up or something. But then I got him on
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: my TV show. You see, then we did it, you
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: know where it really mattered, you know that millions of
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: people could then see it. So so I got my
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I got my wish at the end. But I would
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: have loved to have just done that with him that night.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: You know, in sixty five, where did you do your
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: TV show from? From London? Just north of London, right, yeah,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Elstree Studios, And which is funny, where we do the
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: voice from now? You know, I'm a coach on the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: on the voice UKA and we'll do it from the
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: same place. Fantastic thought, my god, after all this time,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: you know, because that was like sixty nine, seventy seventy
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: one when I did this is Tom Jones. So it's
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: still a pain in the ass to get there, you know,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: on the road. But it's it's great that I'm still
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I'm still doing it, you know. So I always think
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: of that. I think if somebody had told me back
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: then that I would be doing still going to the
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: studios in Elstreet now, it's it's a great feeling. It's
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: it's a great I love it so cool. If you're
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: up for it. Let's listen to my very favorite of
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: your songs. Never going to fall in Love is my
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: favorite of them all. Oh, thank you, and let's listen
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: to that together, and then you can tell me anything
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you want to tell me about that one. Okay, I've
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: been in love so many times, thought I knew the score,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: but now you've treated me so the wrong. I can't
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: take anymore. And it looks like I'm never gonna fall
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: in love. Okay, I'm never gonna fall Hello, I'm beating
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: into fall in love. All these thingss I heard about you,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I thought they were only lies. But when I caught
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: him in his arms, I just broke down and crime
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: and it doo slide. I'm never gonna fall in lovely, lie, no, no, no,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: nonna fall love. I mean it. I mean it for locking.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I gave my heart so reasonly I justust aside my pride.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: But when you felt for someone has baby, I broke
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: the bone side and then looks like I'm never gonna
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: fall helloking, That's why I'm I saying no gonna Please
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: don't make me fall so beautiful yeah, yeah. So where
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that song come from, Well, it was originally a song
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: called I'm Never Gonna Cease My Wandering, which was from
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: the depression, you know, in the thirties. And I knew
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: the song in Wales in one of these workingmen's clubs
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: as a fellow used to get up and sing it,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I'm Never Gonna Cease My Wandering, and I thought, what
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: a great song that is, yeah, you know. And so
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: then I did some shows with a fella called Lonnie
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Donigan Yes in England skiffle Yes, skiffle yeah, which was
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: really old sort of lead belly type blues, you know,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: they called it skiffle. So I did some shows with
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: him and he said, look, I've just written a song
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: and you would sing the shit out of it. So
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: he played me a demo that he had done on
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: it never gonna fall in love again. And I said, well,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: that's never gonna cease my wandering. He said, yes it is,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: but he said, there's no horace and never going to
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: cease my wandering, you know. He said. We changed the
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: words and then put that fall and that wasn't in
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: any original. That wasn't there, which is the most commercial
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: part of the song. And I said, oh, I gotta
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: do it. I got I'm gonna try this. And so
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: I said to Peter Sullivan, Lorne Donna Going has written
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: a song, and I want to do it. Okay, let's
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: do it. So we did. And then when when I
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: did it, we used to get an ascetate, yeah, to
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: take home, you know, to play it at home. And
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: I took it home and we only had the one right,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: so my wife took it to my manager's house. We
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: lived close in England. She said, this is what Thomas
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: just done. While they were fighting over this ascetate, my
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: wife and my manager's wife to keep it. That night,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: my wife says, you know, it's my husband saying it.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: She said, yeah, but my husband managers. There was a
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: big fight over this one ascetate because that was the
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: only copy that we had at that point, So to
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: get two women fighting over, you know, over the song.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a good this is good, this
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: is this is gonna be a hit, and of course
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: it was not good. Yeah, it's such a great song,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the energy of it, and and yes, the hookiness of
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: the chorus. It's got a real sing along chorus and
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: the vocal performance is just stunning. And you save the
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: big note for the ends, almost like a Roy Orbison type.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're not singing like him, but but the drama,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: the big note at the end where you can't like,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: you can't think it could get any more dramatic, and
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: then you go there. It's so beautiful, but a great song. Yeah,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: we'll be right back after a break with more from
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Tom Jones and Rick Rubin. We're back with the rest
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: of Rick Rubin's conversation with Tom Jones. So talk more
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: about live performances and where were the types of places
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: you played once you started having success and anywhere in
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: the world. Right, So it went from I played these
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Air Force bases, American places in and around London and
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: we would play then ballrooms, you know, dance halls. People
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: that had hit records in those days would play either
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: theaters or dancehols, you know, one show at night, and
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: some of them were on peers. You know. They used
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: to have you know, peers in seaside resorts and you'd
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: have a dance hall at the end of the pier,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: just like in the state, said the same thing. So
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: we would then go and play these dancehols in the summertime,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: especially on the end of these peers. But then we
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: started getting interests coming from northern nightclubs in the North
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: of England. So my manager and my agent, they said,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: we get a lot of requests from clubs, dancehols as well,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: and theaters as well. But these clubs now, you know
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: up in the North of England, they're putting on a
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: lot of cabaret shows which were like mini Vegas. When
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I went to Vegas, i saw you know, the showrooms
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, and they had things very similar, not
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: as grand, but in the North of England they had
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: these nightclubs, you see, because they had casinos as well,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: you know coming in there. So then I started playing
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: these northern clubs while they were like glorified workingmen's clubs
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: that I had played in South Wales. So that's what
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: what happened. So it's been a problem, maybe a nice problem,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But my audience has always been a
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: wide variety of people, you see. So I could play
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: the kids, you know, even in Wales, I could play
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: a ymca to teenagers on a on a Friday night
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: and play a workingmen's club on a Saturday to adults.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: So the same thing basically has gone through my career.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I would play the Talk of the Town, for instance,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: which was a huge nightclub in London in the sixties,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: and my agent, my American agent, came to see me
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: there and he said, you've got to play the Copacabana
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: in New York. This is where where it's hat. So
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I said, okay. So then I played the Copacabanner and
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: they were saying, to be funny enough, they said, are
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: you scared, you know, because it's like a lot of
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: gangsters go in there. And I said, excuse me. If
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: you've played, if you've sung to coal miners and their
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: wives and girlfriends, you know, the mafia does a scape.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: It's the only differences. They got guns, you know, we
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: didn't have guns. But to get over to those people,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: you know, you've got to be able to deliver. So
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: that was a big thing. In sixty eight. I played
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: the Talk of the Town in sixty seven in London,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: and then sixty eight I went into the Coopa in
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: New York and it was tremendous, you know, to play
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: a place where all these giants of American show business
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: had played before. Everyone. Yeah. Then that led to the
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Flamingo in Vegas and the Douville in Miami. You know,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: so a lot of these clubs then nightclubs. But then
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: when my TV show hit, you know, became so big
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: that I started playing arenas. Wow, you know, basketball arenas
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: which people people have never played before, you know, they've
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: never they'd never had musical venues. Maybe Madison Square Gardens,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I think maybe it was the only one, but all
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: all these big basketball arenas. Then I started playing because
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: the club's got too small. Even though I was still
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: playing Las Vegas. You know, I would still go back
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: to Vegas, which I used to moan about because I say,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: how come I can make as much money or one night,
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: you know, playing an arena and they got to play
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: you know, a week, two shows a night in Las Vegas.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: But they said, well, you know that's that's the way
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: it is. But there you go. You do it when
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: you're young, you know. It's it's you get in front
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: of up in front of people, whether it's two thousand
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: or twenty thousand, you're performing, and that's that's what I do.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: How the audiences react to different songs in different parts
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: of the world, is it pretty consistent or are there variations?
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: It's about the Yeah, it's about the same, you know.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm always aware if it's an English speaking audience. Yes,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: if you know, if I'm in Britain, or I'm in
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: America or Australia or Canada or you know, I'm aware
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: of it. But all of European countries, you see, all
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: the different countries, they love all all the stuff that
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: I do, you know. So a surprise that I had
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: in the seventies when I went to Japan, so I said,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: to promote there any songs you think would go over
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: you know, more in Japan than and he said, well,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: you have to do Danny Boy. I said Danny Boy,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: because I had done it on my TV show, you know,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: and they saw me doing Danny Boy, and I said,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: well to the Japanese people understand the story of and
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: he said, it's the emotion. Wow, they feel your emotion
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: when you sing it. Yeah, so that was a big
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: surprise to me that that I had to keep Danny
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Boy in the show in Japan especially. Yeah. Yeah, but
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: what I play Israel, you know, ma Yiddishamama in Israel
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: is fantastic, fantastic. What's the part of your working life
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: that you most enjoy being on stage? That's the fun part,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: you know, That's that's the part like all roads lead
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: to the stage, yes, you know, everything that I do
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: is it all sort of helps getting me to getting
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: the people in there, you know, so that I can
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: go on. But to be on the stage giving it,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: you know, and receiving from the audience is a tremendous feeling.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: There's nothing else like it. It's like the closest thing
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: to sex. You know, when you're going up the steps
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: onto the stage, you know, or just walking from the
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: wings onto the stage is anticipation. Is the build up
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: before you make love, you know, and when you're when
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: you're actually you know, when you're when you're in it,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: it's like and then the coming down afterwards, you know,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: the relaxing part after you do the show. Yeah, if
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I go to dinner after the show, the food taste better,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: the wine taste better, everything beautiful. It is better after
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: that show. Do you get nervous at all before going
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: on stage? Well, as I say, like before sex, you know,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: before before making love. Let's say, you know, when you
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: get that exciting feeling, you know, and then you get
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: at it, of course. And then the only time if
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I get nervous is if I've if I've got a
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: cold or something, you know that I feel that I'm underpowered.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I'm will it work? You know? Will my voice work
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: as well as I wanted to? So I'll get a
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: bit nervous then, but no, excited yes, but nervous no.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: And how long does it take to come down after
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: the show? Like? How soon can you sleep after a show? Oh?
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: A long time. I'm a night owl anyway, you know.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: So it's show business is perfect for me because I
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: I live at night anyway, I always have done ever
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: since I was a kid. So it's uh, it's great.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: You know. I like to be awake at night. I
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: think the world looks better at night. You know, when
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: you're in a city, if you if you go out
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: into a city in the daytime, it's bedlam, you know.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: You go out at night, things like a much calmer, Yeah,
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: and most people are asleep, so there's less energy. Yeah,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: and it's a it's a more peaceful world at night, Yes,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: I think so. So it's it's great, you know, to
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: go to a restaurant and you know, and and just
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: relax with some friends and it's it's that's it's lovely.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: It's it's a lovely feeling, the whole thing. And if
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do a runner, you know, I'm getting
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: a limousine and go somewhere else or come on, jump
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: on a plane, whatever it is. It's just a great
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: feeling when when you've achieved that that show. Are you
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: ever surprised by what songs people react to that you've sung, Yeah,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: going as big as as they have. Yeah. You know,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: when when I recorded the Green Green Grass of Home,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: I heard the Jerry Lee Lewis version. It was I
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: bought it on an album in sixty five in a
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: colony record shop in New York and he was called
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Country Songs for city Folk and he was doing country
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: songs of the day, you know, of that time, and
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: the Green Green Grass of Home was a Porter Wagner song.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: So he did that. But that's the first time I
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: heard it was Jerry Lee Lewis doing it. So I thought, oh,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I got to do that. You know, that's a great song,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: you know, a surprise thing. You know, the man is
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: in his cell dreaming about all this, which I thought
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: was tremendous. So I thought, well, let's try it. And
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: it became a monster, you know, it became huge, which
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't expect. I thought it was going to be
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: a good record, and I think that was thanks to
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Les Read as well, who did the arrangement, because he,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: you know, he stretched it. He made it more of
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: a pop record as opposed to a country record. You know. Yeah,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: so I didn't expect that. Oh and watch the Pushy
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Cat when I assured that. When Bert Bakrack sang that
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: and played it to me, you know, he played the
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: piano and sang it live, I thought he was joking.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: I said, you, you know, you must be joking. I
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: can't say that. He so he demoed the record and
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: he said take it away of I listened and live
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: with it and see what do you think? And then
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: I went in and recorded it. I still didn't think
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: that there was going to be anything, and then of
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: course you know, it was the Woody Allen film. Yes,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: the film was a hit, the song was a hit,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: and there you go. It's a strange song. It's definitely
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: a strange song. Oh the chord changes, I mean I
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: never heard car change just like that. You know, da
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: da da da da da da da da da what
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: you know? What is this? It sounds like a like
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: a German drinking song, you know, like a beer hall song.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Dash right exactly. So you don't know, you know you
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't think that that was gonna be
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: as anywhere near what happened to that. Is it as
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: much fun making music now as it's been from the
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: beginning for you? Oh yeah, definitely. I think it's even more.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: You get more freedom now as when I first started off.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: You'd get with an arranger, you know, you'd picked the songs,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: you'd you'd set the key, you get the arrangement done,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: so all those things were done before you stepped into
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: the studio, and then you'd have a three hour session
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: to do three songs, and like the first hour was
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: taken up by getting the balance, and then you'd know
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: you'd do the other two after that, So you'd have
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: to get three songs within three hours. Wow, And studio
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: time was very expensive. So they told me, you know,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: in the record company, so it was different, and they
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: had a singles division and then if you were selling
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of singles, then you'd you could make an album.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Then you'd go to the album section of the record company.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: So they had two different two different sections, and then
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: you'd have a bit more time, but still you'd still
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: have to try and get three songs in three hours.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Now I'm going to be recording with Ethan John's you know, great,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: We're going to start off and go to the studio
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: in the real world in Peter Gabriel Studio in Boxing
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Wilsha and which I've recorded many times, and then well
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: we'll live there, you know. We'll go in there for
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: a few weeks and start kicking stuff around, you know,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: with a rhythm section, and and see what happens. Do
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: you ever love a song and then record it and
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: feel like it's not right to to release. Yeah? With
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: letd Cohen, for instance, I wanted I wanted to do
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: a Leond Cohen song so and I loved I'm Your Man,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: so we went in. I thought, oh, I gotta do this,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, you know, I'll do anything for you.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: You know, I'll be this and i'll be that whatever
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: it is. I'm your man. And we were all set
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: to do that. And then we tried it and it
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: was okay, but it wasn't as good as I thought
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: it would be. Then Ethan said, look, if you really
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: like Leonard Cohen, but about Tower of Song, And I said,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: let me listen. Well, when I heard it, I loved it,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: and so we then tried it. You know, well let's
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: try it and it was great, Oh fantastic. Well, thank
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: you so much for doing this. It's such a pleasure.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I'm a lifelong fan. I continue listening and anytime, and
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: this was an opportunity for us to speak. And I
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: went back and listened to a stuff that I haven't
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: listened to recently, and again every time I hear it,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: it blows my mind. So I thank you. Oh good, well,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: thank you. I'm coming from you. That's that's a compliment
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: because I've loved the things that you've done, you know,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: the records that you've made tremendous. Thank you so much.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: All right, Rick tick Hare, thanks to Tom Jones for
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: taking us through his incredible career. To hear more of
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: our favorite Tom Jones songs, check out our playlist at
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: broken record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscrib to
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. You
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: is produced with help from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Bentaladay,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chafey.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Mia Lobell. Broken Record is a
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries. If you like this show and
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus
• 54:37
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• 54:41
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• 54:44
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• 54:48
  Speaker 1: like the show, please remember to share, rate, and review
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: us on your podcast app or theme musics by Kenny Beats.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.