Latest / Upper Canada College Admission Community Conversation / UCC Admission Community Conversations | Episode 4 - Leadership at UCC

Transcript

UCC Admission Community Conversations | Episode 4 - Leadership at UCC · Upper Canada College Admission Community Conversation

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Community Conversations, our Upper Canada College podcast that shares information and discussions on basically all corners of UCC.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host today, Alexandra Zorntos.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the director of admission here at UCC for the upper school in the boarding school.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics, leadership, simple as leadership.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we're talking about this because as an admissions person, when families walk through the doors or walk into my office, one of the most common questions I get asked is how will UCC prepare my child to be a leader?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that word leader means so many more things than it used to mean.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: And as long as I can remember, society, you know, defined leadership through narrower lenses than they do today.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Titles, top-down, corner offices, authority.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: And at UCC, we're actively trying to redefine that blueprint.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we have already redefined a lot of it.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: So today that's what we're unpacking.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: We're unpacking how UCC is carving this innovative path through multiple lenses and making sure that we're having real-world impact with our boys.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: So today, joining us around the table, I have two incredibly special people.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a giant fan of both of them, and we're so, so lucky that they took time out of their day to join today.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to have them introduce themselves.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Fiona, why don't you start?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, thanks so much, Alex.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm really honored to be here and doubly honored to serve as the current director of the Lang Leadership Lab at UCC.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I've been at UCC for about 12 years in a variety of different roles and been drawn to working in student leadership throughout my time.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's my life's purpose and passion.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so to be able to do that full time uh has been a real gift to me.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm excited to talk to one of the very many young people that I deeply admire as a leader and change maker uh today.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: So it's an honor to be here with one of my former students.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um always big in my heart and mind, Caleb.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: So Kalum.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, thanks, Fiona.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Great to be here.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thank you, Alex, for um having me back.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, as Fiona did mention, I am a beneficiary of uh her uh endless wisdom.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was on the student government when I was at UCC uh class of 2022.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh right now I am a law MBA student at the University of Toronto.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I did my undergrad uh here as well at Trinity International Relations.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And on the side, I'm the National Commissioner of Scouts Canada.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you again, Alex.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, really looking forward to this conversation.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Caleb.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Fiona.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I do want to plug too that you actually won the Herbert Mason Award when you were here at UCC, which in I that's a huge, huge accomplishment.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the Herbert Mason Award, for those who don't know, recognize as a senior high school student demonstrating basically everything that Calum embodies, which is outstanding character, integrity, and wonderful leadership.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: So congrats to that as well.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, everyone again.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh welcome.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just dive right in.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Let's dive right into it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: I want to talk about leadership.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: You guys are the experts.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as I said before, the traditional model of leadership, you know, top-down, positional, authoritative, doesn't really match the world our students are entering, nor does it match what I'm seeing with my own eyes at UCC.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Fiona, you talk a lot about leadership being more than just a position.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: So tell us, please tell us what is it then?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: What is leadership?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think we're we're really here at UCC actively rejecting the notion as outdated, archaic, and problematic that leadership lies in position.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Leadership's a process, it's a practice, uh, it's behaviors that individuals choose through relationship with others to have a positive impact on the world around them in whatever way matters to them.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not something you used to think, oh, that that phrase, you're a natural-born leader, right?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this person is a leader.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's not an endpoint, it's not an event.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: The greatest leaders in the world, they are constantly learning, growing, failing, and adapting their practice, knowing that leadership is a lifetime commitment to learning and growth.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what it is.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, one of the beautiful things about teaching leadership in a school is like as educators, we believe that students can learn anything.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like we believe that every kid can graduate, UCC being a mathematician.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: If we give them the opportunity, we allow them to fail, we allow them to explore, and we get excited and ignite something in them that gets them wanting to invest the time and energy into learning.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: And we provide good teaching and theory-based, uh, evidence-based practice on how you do it.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: And leadership is no different.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: And we have made a commitment at the school through the leadership lab that every student graduates from our school, understanding that they themselves are a leader.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: They get to choose how, when, um, and with whom they exercise that in whatever way feels right for them, but that we are teaching them and exposing them to the benefits of that practice.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And we're kind of demystifying what leadership is.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Leadership is relational.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: And in our systems that society operates in now, a leader at the top actually can't make any change unless they're completely integrated in relationship within an organization.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: So even for those people who get excited about top-down leadership, they're not living in today's society because everything is so interconnected and all systems are so connected that change cannot possibly happen top-down in a way that's meaningful and that's sustainable.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what we actually need to teach our kids.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so the relational leadership that happens through process and practice is the thing that's actually going to make the kind of change and make the kind of impact that our kids really want to.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I I think what we need to do is to teach the boys here at UCCM.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: We're really starting to do this, to spot it in themselves and to spot it in others.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how can we together do something really amazing?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: What do you bring?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: What do I bring?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: Get curious with each other, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: Work in connection with each other and really have that deep level of empathy that we're building in our boys here to understand the needs of themselves and their needs of others in relationship.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how transformational change happens in society.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I get super excited about it and like I have to stop talking.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: We love listening to you talk about it, and I've heard talk about it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: I could like literally go on and on about this is a really important moment in leadership that we're in right now in this changing world.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: And the last thing I'll say about leadership in boys, one of the things that scares me about society today as a older person is that our young people feel like the world is changing around them and that they have no agency.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: To me, it is our moral imperative as an educational institution to ensure that our students feel agency for their world and their lives.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: And one way we can do that really powerfully is to ignite the leader within them so that they feel like they are empowered in their life to do whatever it is that matters to them.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like that's our moral imperative.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm honored that UCC is committing to that work.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're so lucky that you're leading so much of this and sharing and teaching.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I just love that leadership can be taught.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: That I think is my favorite part about it, because a boy can come into UCC not even knowing if he has, you know, quote unquote leadership potential.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And as we know, that word means so much more than what we thought.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And with the resources here and the dedicated staff and faculty and opportunities and all boys' environment, it gives them a ground to work off of, right?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, speaking of opportunities and all the things that happen in on this campus, which is a lot, a lot, a lot of opportunities for students, Caleb, you were involved in nearly every corner of UCC.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't fortunate enough to be here when you were here, but you both were here at the same time.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that's amazing.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, Caleb, looking back on your journey through UCC being so involved, what's your biggest piece of advice for students about, you know, using these resources and using the philosophy here, whether it's a teaching practice or service learning or house culture, kind of like as a testing ground for leadership?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a great question.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my automatic response would be that the brilliance of UCC, as I found it, was that there is truly something for everyone.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned that uh I was involved in many corners at UCC, but there were indeed corners that I was not involved in because I did not necessarily enjoy that as much as I enjoyed the many other things that I did actually get involved in.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And there is something for everybody there, whether you're into uh the arts, whether uh you're a mathematician, whether uh you uh want to be a lawyer like me, we've got uh something for every person.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second part of your question is what makes uh UCC a testing ground for leadership?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's quite simply put that we are enabling, or UCC is enabling um students to discover what they're passionate about, to become good at what they're passionate about, and then to model that for other students.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: That very act of modeling is what the act of leadership is about.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it doesn't matter, you know.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, we can look, for example, at student government.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was involved in the student government, you can look at student government as a uh the the the top, you know, you can say that uh item of leadership at UCC.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you can look at the list of names, you know, for alumni going all the way back, of people who were in student government, and then look at the names of people who are not in student government, and you will see leaders on both sides of the coin.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't it doesn't matter uh necessarily what particular uh passion you choose to pursue, but if you are pursuing a passion, you will be able to develop your leadership potential through that at this place, and that is something that I found so special.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like embracing what the student brings at that time in their life and being able to empower them to continue on and find their find their passion beyond.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking with our head steward today, who, yes, that is considered one of our you know leadership roles.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: It is a is a great role to have in the school.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he was sharing just how you know how many times he failed at um a tryout on a team or uh not getting into a certain club at UCC.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: And he kept trying and trying, and he eventually found his passion, just as you were saying, Caleb, because there's so many ways that someone can find the leadership um characteristic within them.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we know that clearly it can't just be learned from a textbook.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: So all of this stuff is experiential.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: It has to be lived, it has to be tested, it has to be practiced.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we're here in Midtown Toronto on our 35-acre uh green space, and we have that space, but we also have something called our Norval campus.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I realize that not everyone who's listening might know exactly what that is, but that is our 450-acre outdoor experiential education environment that is about one hour from the city.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we have access to that throughout the year.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So between that campus and between our Toronto campus and programs like the Lang Leadership Lab Summer Institute that uh Fiona is uh overseeing.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: UCC obviously gives students a playground to experiment and even fail safely, which is my favorite part of this topic, the failure.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, Fiona, this past July, we did launch the inaugural Lang Leadership Lab Summer Institute, which is a huge congratulations to you.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was an incredible program that brought in, I want to say, I want to learn, I want to look to you to tell us how many students you brought in in the first year.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: I am just so utterly proud of you and of UCC.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so please tell us about that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Please tell us how the program went and how did it give students room to kind of apply these concepts to real world challenges?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thanks so much, Alex.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I I look at Caleb here and I'm like, man, I wish I'd done this years ago so he could have been part of it.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um but um yeah, we had 36 students from across Canada.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's an application-based, highly competitive program.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, 50% of our students were on full financial assistance uh this year.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: So um students from all across the country, from all different experiences bringing lots of different approaches in their lives.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: And as Caleb said, lots of different passions.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: And you would think that it would be hard for them to deeply connect because their lived experiences were so different and their passions were so different.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, they came in, they didn't know each other, they left on the last day.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: It took so long to dismiss them because they were all hugging and crying for so long.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we became very close.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: And what's really cool about the program that's that's unique to it is that we continue to meet about every five weeks uh during the year.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: So over Zoom, so we have our mentoring sessions, we bring in some support for our students, they problem solve together, we support them as educators in problem solving the real world leadership challenges when they go back to their home communities where they are engaging in different um, you know, work on a big scale, some on a small scale, um, and then the day-to-day leadership practice that we um are working on instilling with them.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll tell you a couple of stories.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's such a cool experience.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: We really start initially with sort of the theory and building self-awareness.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: So the idea is that you can't lead with effectively without self-awareness.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you have to understand yourselves, what are your values, what's driving you, you know, what are your strengths, what are your overdone strengths?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, where do you lean in too much?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: And how do you ness, how do you actually engage when you're feeling conflicted and when you're in conflict with others?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: And how do you get curious about doing that differently in a way that's more productive?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so our students do work there and we we sort of gamify that and we have a lot of fun doing that.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then we focus on once you have a deep sense of yourself and the difference of other people, is that we work on team building because leadership is always working with other people.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so, how do you do that in a way that's really effective?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: The reality about leadership is you kind of got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're comfortable as a leader, you're not doing it right, in my opinion.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're not pushing, you're not asking the right questions, no one's giving you the right feedback because you're not open to it.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: So it should feel pretty uncomfortable a lot of the time.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so these guys do things like were there activities, were there moments where there was discomfort?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they were so uncomfortable.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like a lot of times, but in a great way.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, bringing in the Norville experience, we went up to Norval, we put the kids in groups of four, um, and they got a budget of$10 a day.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: And we hiked to the grocery store.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: They had to meal plan together.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: These are kids who have different dietary interests, different dietary restrictions, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: And varying cooking abilities.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: And we give them$10 a day, and they need to plan a breakfast, lunch, and dinner that they can pack out on a hike and cook on a stove.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: And they have some of them have never cooked before, certainly not on a camping stove.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of our kids have not ever hiked.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we are packing our stuff.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: We are going on a 20-kilometer hike.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, lo and behold, and then we got to get there and they got to cook their meal.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry, they cook it, they cook it during the the hike, not before.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they cook it during the hike.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's amazing.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so if they've forgotten something, they're in trouble.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: They're eating what they've got and they have been hiking.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: And our trail, there was a tree that had fallen the night before.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so we ended up having to go a little bit longer.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and our kids were so amazing.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: We had like one girl whose backpack I swear was like bigger than hers, and she was no problem.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then a boy who was a bit taller saw her towards the end of the hike and he said, Let me take it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I have this photo of this kid with a backpack on his front and a backpack on his back because he was like, There's no way if I was your size, I could have carried that backpack for you know the last many, many hours.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was amazing.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then they got that they had to cook, and some of them cook meals that weren't that great.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but they, you know, when you're hungry, the best, the best, uh, the best thing to make a meal taste delicious is to have a really good appetite.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and so that was something that was really challenging for a lot of kids.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we did a very high-stakes case competition where there was a lot of money on the line for students, particularly those who will, you know, need financial assistance to go to university.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that was in front of a panel of professors uh at a university.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: So very high stakes, 24 hours for your first ever case study competition.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the kids learn to work through conflict, they learn to real-world apply.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: What does it mean to work in a team?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: How do I operate above the line when I really feel like I'm below the line?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how do I call in my overdone strengths and call on strengths that I'm not used to using to elevate the entire team?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was a remarkable experience to watch them grow uh during a two-week period of time.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was a real honor, to be honest, to be to be a witness to that and be a part of that.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: The feedback I'm hearing, Fiona, from students directly or from moms who are emailing me or dads who are emailing me, um, the students feel it too.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: They felt the passion coming out of it as much as you feel the passion, planning it, going throughing it, going through it and coming out of it.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was truly a change-making um opportunity for them.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there, they they felt it, right?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think, I think there were some tears at the end, like you said.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and it's funny, there's like I'll tell one little story if it's okay, like about how much learning an adult can get or others can get through witnessing.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: So we had in the tenseness of the night before the case study, we had this group working together, and I'm in a room, you know, I'm kind of observing, kind of helping manage when things are maybe going awry, and I'm not saying anything in this group.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: And we have one student say to another student, you look like you're listening to me, but you're speaking like you're not hearing me.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a way I can say this differently?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you're literally 16 years old.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: I have seen adults do that so much worse.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, in much lower stake spaces and higher stake spaces.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: And to his credit, he turned and said, You're right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: It'd be helpful if you could say it again.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna make sure I'm really trying to listen.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like that is so you like that happens in a space where we give kids the sense that they are leaders, the tools, right?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: They're tools, they're skills.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Leadership is a skill you continue to build over your lifetime and you practice.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: And we give trusting open spaces where those kind of conversations should be happening.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: The growth is is amazing.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's like they're getting these, they're they're in this environment that offers that, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I'm so proud of what we do and what you're doing, because that's happening at UCC in the classrooms as well.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And just that's why these people, that's why these students who are coming out of your summer institute had such remarkable feedback because the way that you were exposing them to different learnings was different than what they would get Monday to Friday in their own school or in in their own life.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's like you said, that's when people learn, that's when they get vulnerable.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: They have those emotional, stable uh connections with others.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's really special.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the other thing is they they they build each other up.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: And Caleb, like you'll have experienced this, right, at UCC.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the coolest part about UCC is like I used to say to my kids when I taught full time is like you're not here for me.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm here to facilitate your interaction with each other because you're so brilliant and interesting and different.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's the that's the secret sauce of UCC is the kids, right?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Which is so cool.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh because I can facilitate that with those two kids.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: They did it with each other.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: So it's the kids who make it remarkable.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously Kalin got a lot of that too while he was here.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And now, um, just speaking of that type of hands-on exposure, Caleb, you're currently Scouts Canada's youngest ever national commissioner.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: True or false?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: True, true last time I checked my LinkedIn.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you share, like I am told, and I've learned about you that you share responsibility for over 60,000 participants.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Can can you just talk to us a little bit about that in the in the whole aspect of um hands-on leadership and and experiential?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'm happy to.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was funny, uh, Fiona, as you're describing Lang Leadership Labs 20 kilometer hike, I was saying, wow, that sounds like scouts.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, I would say there are quite a few through lines uh between my time at UCC uh that I've been able to bring uh to uh my my leadership of Scouts Canada, uh which for those who might not be familiar is a nationwide um youth-serving organization that much like UCC is big into service, uh, and much like Norville is big into the outdoors and getting kids to spend time outside.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um the brilliant, uh one of the brilliant parts about I've mentioned many brilliant parts about UCC, but something that is core to the UCC identity uh is the value of service, which is to say that we believe uh that UCC believes that students should be able to apply themselves uh to their studies, right?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Fine, but also apply themselves to their communities and improve their communities through the work that they do and the passions that they go for.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me, the big uh uh big part of service that I was able to accomplish at UCC was with Horizons, which is a program designed to help uh at-risk uh Toronto youth uh through uh peer tutoring.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and typically it's high school UCC students with uh elementary school uh Horizons kids.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: This was particularly meaningful for me because I graduated uh just uh as the pandemic uh was uh was uh winnowing out.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the kids that I was able to help, I organized a few um uh tutoring drives effectively, uh, were people who would really need that extra help, who would really need uh UCC uh students to be leaders, uh, to be role models, to be big siblings.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that idea again of mentorship is something that I found quite important to my UCC experience, where I was able to organize an initiative that helped UCC students be mentors for kids younger than them who might need that at a time when we all needed a little bit of help.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the uh as well to the point about uh leadership and action, you know, Fiona, you were mentioning, uh I believe it was two answers ago, about how the idea of a hierarchical, top-down leadership model is no longer in step with the world around.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, leading Scouts Canada, um, I 110% agree.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I would be completely useless if it wasn't for the 15,000 volunteers that uh make scouting work from coast to coast to coast.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that focus of leadership to say that you don't have to be the well, it's it's frankly you could try, but it wouldn't really work these days to be the general at the top of the army saying what must go.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: The best type of leadership comes from within.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: The best type of leader is somebody who is interested in helping, who is somebody who is following their passion.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that is something that UCC is great for is helping students find their passion.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: I love your anecdote of you'd be useless without the 15,000 others supporting.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's because it's a big machine and everybody plays a serious part.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's incredible, and something so you both have a lot of experience.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: You both have a lot of experience, obviously leading others in the sense that you're with groups of peers or students or um Fiona, maybe you're teaching a class.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Caleb, you're leading something in scouts.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm curious to know about failure as a success, whether it's one of your peers, your students, or yourself, because you see it in a lot of group dynamics.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we do often talk about success, but Fiona mentioned it already a few times that leadership grows out of failure or feeling uncomfortable, such as you know, mistaking your cooking timing on a 20-kilometer hike.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, can you share a moment that either you or someone in your career or your job or your school struggled and how moving through that friction built some character, maybe through Scouts Canada, Caleb, or maybe at UCC when you were here?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I won't get into the uh myriad of camp cooking failures I've experienced.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have the time.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I I can talk about uh UCC experience.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was the uh when I was there, I was the uh trivia team captain, uh, which was a heck of a great time.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I just love it.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, it's actually incidentally completely beyond the point.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: One of my profs here at UFT is a Jeopardy champion.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a fanboy moment for me, but that's okay.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um moving along.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the when I was at UCC, uh the the trivia team uh was fledgling, shall we say, which is to say that it was many guys who got together, who enjoyed it, who had a lot of fun, uh, and we competed against other schools.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Great, fantastic.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: But when I was the captain, I wanted to really grow it.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to make sure that people knew it was happening.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to make sure that people who were potentially interested in this as a specific, and again, this can apply to many different interests, right?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because my the the point that I've been trying to make is that at UCC, you can really find your passion, whatever it might be.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Mine just happened to be useless facts.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was trying to develop that further, I wanted to include people more and more.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so we made it, you know, if you know you'll you'll remember, we made it into a school-wide activity, which is great, a lot of fun, a lot of fun.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but here's the point um the concept was failure.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: After making it so big, after trying to include lots of people, at the end of the day, we still had to compete.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: And despite the fact that people were on board, despite the fact that we had the spirit that we were we were ready to go, we lost.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that was too bad uh because we were all you know really ramped up to to go uh defend the good name and so on.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but but we ended up losing.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and this was my last year.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was in grade 12.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: I graduated just a couple months later.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was ah, it's too bad, you know, uh, too bad, you know, all that buildup just oh, we lost.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: But, and here's here's the big point.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we actually won the year after.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't know what that says about my trivia skills, but because we had set up that foundation, because our model of leadership was based on including people, was based on showing people that they had a place here if they found it something that they were interested in.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: We were able to build that foundation such that in subsequent years that goal could be met.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, there's an analogy here, I think, with with just the uh prevalence of resilience as part of the UCC curriculum, which is to say, we UCC provides so many opportunities to its students that there are going to be moments where the students don't meet their own expectations, or they don't meet the expectations of their community.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And yet there's going to be either another chance for them to meet those expectations, or by the model of their leadership, they're going to help other UCC students be able to meet that next time.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's quite powerful and something that I found really, really strong in the the whole culture at UCC.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love that so much.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is embedded in our uh curriculum here, and I think our teachers do that so well too.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: If it's a simple uh feeling of a student not doing well on a math concept, you know, the teacher will sit with them and ask the why and uh help them really truly figure it out.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where that resilience comes in as well.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um I just can I just talk about Caleb's story for a minute because I think he's also missing the other win that came out of that that maybe he's less aware of, is that the trivia expansion that he talked about.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: We we together made it part of a house competition that that happened in the school.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's still happening today.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a very popular house competition.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: So what that means is kids who maybe aren't ready to try out for something, or you know, maybe are torn in a different direction in the school, they get an opportunity to have the joy and sometimes the failure uh of trivia and have that experience together in a in a brotherhood.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that's a beautiful, and sometimes when we look to inclusive leadership and we really look about leadership about expanding and thinking about it differently, the way that Caleb did with his group, the the this the other benefits that we maybe didn't even imagine.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: That wasn't really the goal initially, like the goal is to win and be the best.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: But the long-term impact of that and the legacy of that change and thinking differently um and and casting the net wider has been really important in the school.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and it lasts a lot longer than the gold trophy.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why the kind of leadership that that we see here at the school in all of the different corners is actually so important.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: The kids are the ones that make the most awesome change when we give them agency to do that.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I think UCC is really phenomenal at giving students uh agency in all sorts of different ways to have a really meaningful impact, whether it's through the Amazing Horizons program that Caleb talked about, the clubs and all of those places, or just like the interactions that they're doing on a regular basis.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, I just wanted to add that because Caleb, I'm not even sure you know that, but that's good to know.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad to me that's an even bigger win.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: That is a big win.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: That is a huge win.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love that addition.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And as we wrap up today, um, I'm going to kind of put my admission hat on right now because I want to ask each of you kind of like a final question, and maybe it's a little bit of advice, but how can a new UCC student feel a part of the community when they step foot on this campus if they themselves internally think I want to be a good leader?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how can they feel a part of the community?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: What can they do?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'll I'll tell you, like I'm just gonna do my little pitch.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's about your it's it's it's a day, it's about their daily practice of of curiosity, you know, of being courageous, you know, signing up for the things that, oh my goodness, I might not make this team.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Courage is a critical part of leadership.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's about trying to take the time to understand themselves, like Caleb did.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: What do I love?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: What gets me excited here in the school or outside of the school?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, where do I want to put my time, attention, and focus?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that deep self-awareness, what triggers me?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, where are my values not feeling aligned with either what I'm doing or what somebody else is doing?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: And and how do I think about that and navigating that?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: A deep empathy for the lived experience of people within the school and outside the school, and how do you lean into that to make a difference?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like Calem had talked about with the Horizons program, right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the same with our Summer Institute uh offerings.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and so I think, and then just being like, you know, deeply values aligned, like like Caleb said, there is a place for everybody at the school.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's the thing I love most about it is you come here and you see kids who are so different.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's as many different ways to lead in this school as there are students in this building, and we see that all the time.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and there is a place for you.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, you're being coming to UCC takes courage.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: So you're already showing and curiosity and you're already showing leadership there because you're you're trying some new things, and uh, and so if you just lean into that, um you'll be you'll be okay.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: You'll be more than okay.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: And one day might you might even be Caleb, which is just like nah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, got a lot of readings to do.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was perfect, Fiona.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: And Calum, I don't want to put you on the spot, but is there anything that you want to add before we close off?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, uh again, thank you so much, uh Alex, uh, for for having me.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, uh, Fiona, obviously, for your contributions, really great to speak with you, to be with you again.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um the as was mentioned, as has been mentioned, you know, UCC is somewhere uh where it's truly for everyone.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they say other schools might be sports schools or they might be like math schools or robotic schools.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, UCC is a school for everyone and everything.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so the way that a new UCC student can be, uh can can maximize their time, can maximize the potential of the experience, I say, is just to be the guy who sticks their hand up, who consistently puts their hand up to do things, uh to try new things out, to try things that you want to teach out that you already know, to to really just develop your passions, to really explore.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's sort of, you know, what for me, if I look back at my own experience, I was a new UCC student once upon a time.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I came in grade nine, and by no means was I, you know, in UCC all my entire life.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And being that UCC student, how I found um the best opportunities, how I made the most, you know, even coming out as an outsider who who didn't actually know anyone at UCC before I got there.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was just consistently finding something that I found interesting and then sticking my hand up to do it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I thoroughly enjoyed doing that.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some things I enjoyed more than others, but the point is to try.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And UCC is a place that rewards trying.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with all of that.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that um being in an all-boys environment, I just am such a fan of all-boys environments and all girls' schools because I think that it makes students a little bit less reluctant to try things that they ultimately would have been afraid to try before.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the whole try and fail, try and fail, figure it out.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we do do that well at UCC.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Fiona and Caleb, thank you both so, so much for today.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: This was amazing.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: I can talk to you both for like five more hours, but we have to wrap it up.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you to you guys.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you to our listeners who have tuned in.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to hear um uh other podcasts that will be uploaded to our website, you can go to ucc.on.ca.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope everyone has a wonderful day.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Bye, Caleb.