Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.297: Sunscreen (SPF) Selections For Summer Months Ft. Chris Birchby, Founder of COOLA

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E.297: Sunscreen (SPF) Selections For Summer Months Ft. Chris Birchby, Founder of COOLA · Skin Anarchy

• 0:11
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• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to AK Analytics.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I am very excited today.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is a huge brand that I've been just eyeing for so long, and I love every product that they make.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan, and I know a lot of you have heard of the brand.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, it's it's kind of impossible to not have heard of them if you love skincare and anything that has to do with skin health.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the founder of Kula uh Skincare.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Chris.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I have Chris Birchby with me, who is the founder of the brand.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Chris.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much for having me on here.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's really exciting to be able to join you after really had a lot of fun listening to a lot of your other podcasts.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um I look forward to sharing a bit about the Kula story and anything I can today.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: So again, thank you for the honor of being on.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's true, the honor is truly mine, Chris.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan, like I said, of the brand.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just such a phenomenal, um, you know, it's just phenomenal to have brands like this in the market, you know, and I want you to tell us everything.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to learn about your vision and the journey behind creating it, because you know, the products, every product I've tried by Kula is just everything is just outstanding.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's not one product I've tried that's, you know, it's it's not it's not like fluff.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: You see what I'm saying?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's all really good stuff.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to hear from you um everything that went into creating the brand.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know, and I and I appreciate that.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, because for us, we've always considered ourselves a product first brand.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of that goes back to our DNA when we were beginning.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I'll I'll just start with the origin story.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, uh, well, the caveat being here, this can, you know, I can I go off track quite often with this with this origin story, but I'll try to you know take us through from the beginning with kind of some highlights along the way, you know, and also things that I think are also interesting to other entrepreneurs or founders or people starting out because um, you know, this is an industry where there's somewhat of a low barrier of entry because there's a lot of great laboratories, um, also a lot of predatory laboratories that are are out there, and anybody with a great idea or concept or um, you know, any idea, um, you know, there's the opportunity to have samples made and potentially bring this product to market and see a dream realized.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's really how it started for me back in the beginning.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you know I'll back it up to the beginning.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was around 2004 when the idea for Kula really started.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And my background is not in skin science.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it is it is not even in business.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: I went to graduate school for fine art.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to be a painter.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, that was the career trajectory I was on.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was an English and art major in uh double major and undergrad and went to graduate school for fine arts and specializing in painting.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's initially what brought me out to California, where I landed in Venice, California, um around 1999 and uh started graduate school.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um, while I was living in Venice, I was experiencing everything organic for the first time.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in New Jersey and we didn't have um organic grocery stores and dry cleaners there.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I from moving out, you want to be as close to the uh the beach as possible.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually did a commute to Pasadena for three years for graduate school at the Art Center College of Design.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um again, when I was in in Venice and experiencing these um organic products and lifestyle and a much more kind of a healthy, wellness-oriented lifestyle for the first time, um, within a relatively short period of time, about a year, uh, both of my parents were unfortunately diagnosed with melanoma.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um fortunately they caught it in time, uh both of them, and it was uh and still you know are to this day have have maintained being um cancer free.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: But it's something that I went to a dermatologist for the first time ever and had that scared straight moment under the ultraviolet light and all the sun damage that had accumulated over the years of you know growing up.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: We we loved going to the beach when I was younger.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the oldest of, I have three younger brothers.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: The day the school lets out, we'd hop in the back of the station wagon and we'd go to the beach and try to stay there until school was about to begin.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we'd be you know burned and fried every summer.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it was at the dermatologist office where I learned one bad sunburn under the age of 18 to blisters can double your chance of melanoma later in life.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, not to mention just they, you know, the vanity of uh sun damage and wrinkles to your skin.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: As I was in my my mid-20s then, and um spending a lot of time at the beach and time surfing, and um I decided to I wanted to become serious about sun protection.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I our drawer growing up was um SPF two, four, maybe a six in dark tanning oil.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a lot of ground to cover, and um, that's that's really what started um this journey into um uh trying to figure out even how to create a sunscreen.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because initially I just went to the store and tried to find a good sunscreen, and at the time the only good organic sunscreen or natural sunscreen out there was Badger, and they were way ahead of the curve.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: They have a very clean ingredient deck, but it was so different from the wearability that I was used to, that um it just wasn't comfortable to wear.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, well, this might be a great way to combine um my love for creativity and you know, making things, making you know, um for I would loved using my hands and creating items and and pieces of art, but this is really I thought could be an extension of that combined from my love of the beach.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I was very naive when I first started the process, and it took three years to eventually um get to market in 2007.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's it's gotta be really hard to not only launch a brand, but then to create one on, you know, that has such an influence.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember when I started uh just you know being a little influencer on Instagram, Kula was one of the pro, you know, the lines that I would always see, and I would always be like, oh my gosh, I love this line.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, every product was just like, I love that, and I love that concept, and I love that concept.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's like you you have like innovation after innovation after innovation.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like in the world of sunscreen and in the world of just you know, wanting to protect your your skin and and really protect it from, you know, obviously like UV rays, but also have something that, like you said, that's wearable, that's very hard to find.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it's even to this day, there's not many brands that are in the same, I feel like that are real competitors for cool, you know?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, one of our one of our challenges, and I totally, I mean, I agree, it's the idea of finding a sunscreen that you like to wear drives us um with a lot of our innovation.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the reasons why we have so many different formulas these days, is because you know there's a lot of different skin types out there and a lot of different levels of activity.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh and people have different sensitivities.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Some people want a mineral-only formula, um, some people want a chemical active only formula.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're very careful with the ingredients that we choose, and we have a very rigorous process of there's over 2,400 ingredients we don't use.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we can also constantly reformulate.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and this is something that really goes back even to those beginning three years of trying to get to market.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I mentioned in the beginning, you know, that it can be kind of a predatory industry with some of these smaller laboratories.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: And around um Los Angeles, there's a lot of laboratories and chemists and people in the skincare industry, and a lot of them are doing fantastic things, and there's a lot of incredible innovation coming from these smaller laboratories.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it just took us time to find the right one.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: My my first laboratory we went to, they made the most incredible formula.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And again, this is in the beginning and and even to this day, we we almost formulate with one arm tied behind our back, in terms of trying to um uh maintain 70% organic across the board, which we do for all of our products.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And when we do we say that it's 70% of the entire formula, excluding water and salt, that is certified organic, organic.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: Active ingredients are never organic.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: So titanium, dioxide, and zinc oxide, even you know, they're you know, people think they're more natural, even though um pretty much all of them are synthetically created in laboratories these days.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: And we use non-nano sized um zinc and titanium particles, but you know, they're not organic, they're not grown from the ground.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and same thing with the chemical activist, you know, even though they're organic compounds, they're not organic in the sense that we're talking about, as far as being you know, grown without the use of pesticides and being plant-based, they're not organic.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So the base formula has to be up to, you know, for us, it's it's sometimes up to 99% organic.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, it's very meaningful for us in in a number of ways.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's not only is it a better formula, weebly, for your skin, uh, but it's obviously much better for the environment.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then in a world in the United States where there's only about 2% of uh farming is certified organic, um, it's important.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And most of these farms are community-based, they're not big Monsanto type of operations.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's much better to support them.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um we've had interrupted you.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not just saying I don't mean to just keep on going with it, but it's it's something for us.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it just gets to like there's so many bigger questions embedded in it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's um, for example, when people say, Oh, sunscreen, is it is it safe for the environment?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Is it good for the reefs, for example?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, that's such a loaded question because for us, we look at all these other aspects of it.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: For example, you know, what about all the other ingredients that are in the um formula?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Where do they come from?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: What type of farming methodology is used there?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, are they are they you know GMO-based ingredients?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Are they grown using pesticides?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Does that agricultural runoff go in our water systems?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: And 50% of the water systems in the United States are polluted approximately.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: That all flows out to the ocean.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what about that runoff?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's just such a big loaded question.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess at the end of the day, you know, we're always just trying to do our best.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a constant evolution.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And from you know, those beginning days where you know I started to kind of touch on the story where basically our first laboratory made us the most beautiful formula.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, how could they ever make this organic?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is so wonderful.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, one once I got around to the SBF validation test group, which I only realized I needed to do once I had it in the tubes, um, because SBF zero.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so they sold us nothing.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And um, they sold us to the lotion that they had in the back because it turned out they were about to go out of business.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a process.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, go on, go on.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I I I really, you know, I'm sorry, I don't want to interrupt you.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just I really just wanted to touch upon one thing you said because this really hits home for me is this idea of pesticides.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I was recently having a conversation with a few of my colleagues in toxicology, and we were talking about how DDT is still used in so many countries, and it's you know, prevalent.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just everywhere.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And no one wants to talk about this kind of stuff.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, DDT is one of the most toxic chemicals in the world.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And although it's banned in the United States, there's a lot of countries that are still utilizing it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the problem is it doesn't degrade.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so what people don't understand about pesticides is like, you know, you can't support brands that are saying, well, we're not, you know, like we are using it, but it's okay because pesticides, one thing that I really want this industry to understand is that it's not just about are you supporting farms that use those or not?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about what is the degradation life?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like how long does it take for these chemicals to degrade?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So everything you're saying and like supporting the farms that are doing it right, that's hits home for me.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I come from a family that, you know, we grew up in uh rural India.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my parents, like they had farmland.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it, it this is a huge, like for me, a huge hitter, like home hitter.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's something that's so important.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: We have to support the people who are growing these ingredients and that are really doing it right.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that by itself sells me, you know, on the brand, honestly.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you know, and I and I can, you know, obviously very much and appreciate that.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: We can we can have a whole conversation all about you know dirt and the importance of it for you know, just you know, the the future of um uh not just you know humans, but um, you know, our earth and what's been happening to it with farming and different farming around the world and how short-sighted it is.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so you know, these are um you know they're they're they're they're embedded in into kind of us as a brand of things that we want to do.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's wonderful talking about it when you're a small brand and um you know it having aspirational goals and a mission, but it's really wonderful once you start scaling and start having some um ability to influence um what type of you know you're purchasing power, you know, where you're where you're buying things from, or uh mentioned before, what we had with one ingredient recently we couldn't find it organic, you know, we worked with a farm to start growing.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so there's you know, there's wonderful opportunities that scale provides.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and it's it's exciting seeing kind of this movement of you know better for you products starting to resonate more.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you know, some of that is is due to COVID and people paying more attention to the overall effects of wellness on themselves and their families.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it just made you know generally a lot more people interested in you know eating better and organic ingredients.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's exciting to see, and it's exciting to see it you know come into um the entire skincare category more.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I will say that there's there's challenges, and that's one thing that I think we've um I'm most proud of with our team.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um I can't say that I'm so proud of so much, and now we'll say the one of the joys of being a founder is you surround yourself with um people that are better than you at everything that you used to do in the company.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So uh at a certain point, you know, we have just you know, everyone is such a specialist and they're so good at what they do.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, and it's it's an it's inspiring.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: But it's and that's for for me, you know, as part of growing a brand, um, that's really been one of um moments I look back on that I'm kind of most proud of is you know the team we've been able to put together and you know, we're able to really kind of formalize our missions a little bit more and start feeling like oh, we can really kind of make a difference.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's whether it's just at the company level um internally, it's you know, in the community, you know, and there's little things like you know, the beach cleanups we've been doing since day one, but you know, becoming more involved in the local schools and opportunities for different people to have that maybe wouldn't have had them to you know, even the industry at a whole and and um and the country as a whole, and what we can do, and even at a global level.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we're in 49 countries now.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so as we're starting to you know export a lot more um cooler sunscreen, you know, it's our California brand or you know, exporting organic sun care.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what really is more California than that to the world?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it's uh leading to a lot of exciting opportunities for us.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and you know what?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to actually, I was so excited for this interview because for me, it's like I feel like Kula is like the only brand for, especially with being such a like, you know, you say you don't have a science background, but like let's be honest, the brand is, you know, just screaming science, right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're you're dealing with the hardest part of skincare to formulate, which is SPF.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, um it and then making it fun, right?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like making it uh something that's very approachable for the youth, for the for everybody, every age group.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that must have been really challenging.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I want you to tell us about that because the packaging and the feel and the way your products are.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just today I was spritzing um, you know, the refreshing water mist, and I'm by the way, I'm obsessed with that product.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: That one and the golden hour.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love them.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know what?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is brilliant.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't have like I use sunscreen obviously every day, but it's like we don't talk about enough, I think, in this industry about how to make sunscreen products very compatible with our makeup, with our routines, like not making it something where, oh, I put on sunscreen, now I feel like my face is completely weighed down and it's like, you know, just there's nothing else I can do.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: You've made products that are so easy to incorporate into it, like makeup routines and self-care routines.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to comment on that and like just how it's been, you know, just uh reaching out to the younger generations and getting them on board.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, well, you know, absolutely, and because the product that you mentioned, the Water Mist, is one of my app favorite products.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And its roots are really in our makeup setting spray with SBF 30, which for us was um we believe it's a global first when we had first launched that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in combining uh makeup setting spray and SBF in a product that does um help to solve and resolve that issue of you know, how do you apply sunscreen over makeup?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um the uh challenge that we have with that product, it's one of our best products as far as um sales numbers, it's a big hero product for us.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we've always been uh focused on okay, we have to use alcohol uh in the formula to help distribute the active ingredients and the mattifying ingredients for um the makeup setting portion of it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know it's very hard to disperse chemical active ingredients without the use of alcohol, basically.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that was the one you know bit of feedback that we get was oh, I love this formula, I love it, but um you know the alcohol uh can dry out my skin too much at times.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we're like, okay, you know, we we get that.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's no we have no workaround for it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's part of the product, and you wear um, you know, you add a moisturizer and then you put this on over it, and so that hopefully it is uh you're not so drying, but you know, what if what if we could create a spray that doesn't have alcohol in it for your face?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we after maybe five years of you know trial and error and constant you know reiterations of different versions of the formula, you know, created the refreshing water mist, which has its base of organic um uh coconut, um organic coconut water.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um it is just so light and refreshing on the face, it doesn't have any alcohol in it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so we were able to achieve the highest level SPF we could we could achieve with it was SPF 18.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have any water resistance, um, but it is the most lightweight, refreshing spray that we have ever made.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it goes so well over makeup.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's wonderful for, you know, I would imagine people just you know pulling it out of your purse, going to lunch, going to a meeting, just sitting at your desk all day long.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because we also incorporated our um uh blue screen uh digital de-stress technology, which helps to mitigate the effects of blue light.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't protect against blue light, it doesn't block blue light, but what it does is helps mitigate the effects of it on the skin and with the fibulum and the elasticity in the skin.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something we're really excited about as we kind of continue to expand our notion of protection, modern protection.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: And you look at all the different ways that you can really revitalize and have a healthy skin barrier.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so, our focus for all of our new innovation, um, and even as we look backwards, a lot of what we have been doing was really on protecting the skin barrier.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, these days, as we look at modern protection and kind of the umbrella that is, um, you know, we're pushing out into areas like pollution, toxin, um, uh blue light, um, but primarily with um sunscreen as well.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, it's if if we can have a multifunctional formula that you can just you know find one that can you know do several things and you're very happy about wearing on a daily basis, you know, that's such a win on our end.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we live in a world of multitasking.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, Chris, like.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how many times I'm doing like 18 things out of once.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, not having to think about my sunscreen is definitely a huge plus because I'm very religious about sunscreen.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have always been very particular about making sure I reapply.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, part of that is because, you know, I guess in medical training they teach you that we have to learn the dermatology.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: But this kind of product is revolutionary, if you if you ask me, because for people to just reapply that entire process itself is a lot more complicated than we want to like sit down and discuss as an industry.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you're talking about reapplying sunscreen, that means if you have makeup on, right?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: You have a full face of makeup on, everything's in place, it looks great.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: How the heck are you gonna reapply your sunscreen?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like when you have it in a spray formula, that is like solving multiple problems, you know, all at once.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you're worried about the protection aspect, but then it's also about, you know, how easy are you making it for the consumer?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And how, you know, logical is the approach?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, I have a lot of brands that approach me, they're like, we have this sunscreen, but we have to like tell people, you know, reapply it at this time or whatever.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you know what?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you're wearing makeup, I can guarantee you 98% of the pe women that wear makeup every day, they're not reapplying uh a tablespoon of sunscreen every two hours.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: So this is really revolutionary, what you've done, like in the spray uh formula.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, it's something that we've always, you know, we're looking for that kind of solution.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: And again, something that you know a lot of um our demographic and people that love cooler, um they're they're active.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it does not have to be just you're active outside, you're active just in everyday stuff.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we have a little saying that we have a you know, it's it's from the beach to the boardroom.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we want we want to get products that can really easily integrate into your daily routine.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, making sure you use enough sunscreen um is a challenge, especially when you know the FDA myograph, you're supposed to reapply every two hours.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people are that's not realistic.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: People are not doing that.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we recommend it on all of our products, we say it.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I know in real life, um I don't see people reapplying their sunscreen every two hours every day throughout the day.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know, coming up with products like this, um, you know, where in the past, the only kind of similar type of formulas there were out there were powdered sunscreens, and those were never authorized by the um FDM uh monograph.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it was always something that they were looking at and thinking about.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: But I think you know the biggest concern that they had was um the level of application.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they had that same concern too with makeup as well, you know.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I the thing is here's here's the thing, I'll be honest, like, you know, I'm very I'm a very blunt person.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna say it.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there are many brands out there that market powder sunscreens.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I can honestly tell you as a medical professional, it's a hunk of BS.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you can't put product on your face that's powder and expect it to sit and actually create a barrier on your skin at all.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, for example, like I, you know, I'm not trying to be like mean, but supergoop is like one of my least favorite brands because I don't like the way they do sunscreen.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like their powder products, I don't like their approach.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's illogical.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of brands like that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when I look at your products, I'm very, very intrigued by just the true, like, you know, just it's authentic, you know, it's real, it resonates with a normal consumer.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's not hype and BS, like, oh, let's make a powder sunscreen just for the hell of it, even if it doesn't work.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's so unethical.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I hate companies that do that.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, one of my biggest questions to you is this like, you know, when it comes to formulating, you have such amazing products, and I, you know, I know I'd mentioned the golden hour uh, you know, product itself.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that you created that because as a woman of color, the white cast conversation comes up a lot, right?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: So how was that when you were when you were coming up with your, you know, just the whole line?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I haven't had a problem with white cast with any of the products, but how did you combat that?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: How did you address that with formulation?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it's and it's a great question because you know we you know are are very um sensitive to the fact that um we want to be incredibly inclusive for all skin types, but we also know we're not a makeup-oriented type of brand that is going to have um a whole bunch of different shades of color.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, well, how do we have it?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we don't want to, we don't ever want to market our products as any sort of skin tone.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we do understand that mineral actives, especially because we only use um uh um non-nano-sized actives.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so the trick here is really in the dispersal and trying to have it you know as evenly dispersed on your skin so you know it properly reflects the sunlight and doesn't um you know become ashy on the skin.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, an ashy formula is just not a formula that people are going to be wearing that much, and that defeats the purpose of trying to create sunscreens that are incredibly wearable.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so you know, that's that's always been a challenge for us is creating the most wearable mineral formulas.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the reasons that we are kind of re-evaluating our formulas every year or two and constantly trying to launch out the latest and greatest as far as um a wearability, also natural ingredients um as well in it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, to go back to with you know the results, resilience and golden hour, and you know, we realized that we wanted to just have a, you know, um uh really it's coming almost from the surf world where you know it's is where I initially thought I was gonna launch the brand.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um didn't uh by the time I launched, I'd realized uh not only was that not my my market that was going to be bioorganic sunscreen, that by price point I could not afford to be there either.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: But in the in the surf category, there is a you know, they have um all these these sticks um and uh sunscreens that have just a little bit of a um uh kind of a hint of color to take away that white cast on the skin.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for us, we were really just focusing on diffusing light and trying to have um come up with um certain, we have three different um uh colors in there that we really wanted to help just kind of um give a healthy looking glow to the skin on all skin types.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, gosh, I love when people are able to go and try products out in stores.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's uh I don't want to say it's something of the past now after COVID, but you know, when when brands have you know all these beautiful textures and colors and different ways of application, you know, that idea, the surprise and delight of a beauty product or a skincare product and trying it out is so central to how we develop our products and and what we do.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you really want to have that element of wow when you're trying it out and loving it.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and doing patch tests on your skin.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why with all of our products, you know, we encourage if if people can and have the opportunity to you know see how it um feels on your skin, sits on your skin, makes your skin feel.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, it's again all in the quest of just trying to find one that you feel really comfortable with, you know, are like, okay, this isn't this is mine, and I'm gonna wear this one every single day and see the benefits um uh just compound over time.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: I and I completely understand that.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's it's truly, you know, for sunscreen, I think it's a slippery slope because you know, I a lot of people want to create products that are, you know, they're they've got the sunscreen in it, but then they want to go into the makeup category and they want to go into it just to me, it's like overwhelming when I look at some products.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you know, when I approach your brand, for example, you know, like I mentioned the golden hour, but even something like the refreshing water cream, which has SPF for 50, I think that's like again, it's brilliant because you know, we had this whole surge of people who wanted a water cream for the longest time.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when Tasha came out with their water cream and the world went crazy, you know, and it was like, you know, now we understand the use of water creams and a lot of people with oily skin, you know, they gravitate towards that name, right?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Just the the marketing term, water, water-based cream.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you've created that, but you've already put the SPF in there, which is huge.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because for people who have oily skin, one of the biggest problems is they can't layer on a moisturizer and an SPF because that's going to make it even more oily.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: So this is to me, again, another revolutionary product.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how was that?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is SPF 50.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a pretty high number.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how did you incorporate that?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously water is a huge component in this uh in this product.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I will, you know, um say it's part of our innovation, you know, innovation again has been really core to what we've always um, how we've always thought about ourselves, how we've always kind of gone about our our business and and thought of our um our future almost through kind of a lens of innovation.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, since you know in those early days, um, and I and I did just kind of skip through like a couple of those years in the beginning to even get to market.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it took me, and that's a I won't digress all the way back there, but I will say it took me um on only on the fourth attempt did we get to market.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: The uh second one, uh the silk screen all rubbed off, the third one, we had a warehouse fire, we lost it all in the fourth iteration, we finally made it to market.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it was through kind of that process that I met all of our future accounts in LA who became this really great kind of um sounding board and feedback loop, and and um really you know, just a great um group of confidants who were spa directors and aestheticians and independent beauty store owners who would um uh had the kindness to give me the time of day as I would come into their stores with you know little product samples and componentry and um a million questions and just learning about all the ingredients and um uh you know different uh you know scientific aspects of these formulas for the first time and really had some really you know great feedback.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so we continued that um uh that kind of that that feedback loop of this really wide net that we would cast for um for you know innovation, um, for you know critical feedback, you know, for great ideas.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: We continued that concept, casting a wide net for innovation as we continue to grow.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know when I look at where these ideas come from and how we bring them in and funnel them into the company now, you know, it's a really a um we have a more of a complex web of um outside laboratories.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh like at this point, I believe we probably know all the over-the-counter drug manufacturers in the United States, and that's where we formulate all of our formulas.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: But we work with raw material manufacturers and farms globally.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so we reach out to them directly.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we reach out to all the labs directly.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: We have all the inbounds as well from them.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have the different trade shows like American Academy of Dermatology, where we can go to and learn a lot.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: We have our in-house innovation team that's always trend spotting and um working with the different uh chemists and scientists.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we also listen to our partner accounts, um, and whether it's in the specialty stores and which our roots were when we started and um uh independent boutiques and and great spa and resorts, like Four Seasons, um, and those passionate aestheticians and spa directors at different events that we we love to go to, like iSpa and Live Love Spa.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: In the beginning, I would go to every little meetup.com thing that I could find.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be buying remnant space at any little trade show or in the back of a trade magazine.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: And um we we formed these connections over the years and these relationships.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and even now with you know our partners at um retailers, whether it's you know Sephora, Ulta, Nordstrom, it's you know, meetings with with their team, and what are they seeing and what ingredients and what trends and we're going.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so we try to funnel all of this then back into you know the company and innovation sessions, um, where you know we have um uh team members who are very strong science backgrounds, and team members sort of very strong in data analysis, and team members are very strong in marketing, and team members who are very strong in on the creative side, and you know, we we just kind of put it all up there, and these are some of the really the most fun sessions as we you know then look at okay, what can we create, what are the ideas, and then also how far out is the window of uh our innovation cycle, um, which is currently um around 14 months.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so you start planning out in the future years and when can you bring these ingredients in, and then what labs are working with them with you on it and trying to perfect it.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, you don't want to send it out to you know to too many different people because you really want to keep this information proprietary and it's hard to do in our industry.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so there's a you're always kind of balancing um different aspects of it.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, our our innovation, it's really exciting internally for us being part of it.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's really um uh you have to be very forward-looking because you're formulating for one, two, three years down the line as you're thinking about these products.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, I'll I'll just give really credit credit to our team, where I spent a lot of time learning about this, um, starting the company and over the years, and it's we've been in market now 15 years, but um we have members of our team that you know this this this is their specialty and they just they rock.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm you know, credit to them for really coming up with um these formulas.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean I think that's a wonderful thing to have such a you know competent team.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, in the world of just over-the-counter, you know, things that we put on our skin, skin is the biggest organ or largest organ, like we have to have the science backing.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I know you, you know, you guys have your bases covered.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's it just shows, you know, one of the biggest uh aspects of sunscreen that I think I hear about the most is the communogenicity of the products.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people, you know, uh send us emails and they talk about, hey, can you recommend um a SPF product that's not gonna make me break out, you know?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm it's very, very difficult to give real recommendations and stay true to our, you know, for just be honest, right?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so your brand, I think, you know, I've tested it, I've used it um, you know, just on bare skin and just making sure because my my skin is very prone to breakouts if I don't use the right products.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had no issues at all with breaking out or any kind of uh skin changes that were, you know, not desired, I guess you could say.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's something I really want you to address here is how do we, how did you create SPF-based products and then avoid all of that mess of, you know, exacerbating um pre-existing skin conditions such as acne and, you know, for example, it's rosacea month.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, those kind of like uh pathological you know issues that arise with SPF.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think a lot of um issues can be resolved with simplifying the ingredient deck as far as the use of like silicones, petroleum-based ingredients, um, and you know, the dimethicones that are so um, you know, have such incredible aesthetics on the skin, and it also can be, you know, potentially skin clogging.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, there is even, you know, I'll even back up again in the in the beginning.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: We we used a ton of extracts in our formulas.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: We've simplified those over the years because even um using uh if you have 20 different types of plant extracts in there, um, you know, there you there's gonna be sensitivities out there to it.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so you know it's trying to really adhere to um ingredients you know that don't have the potential to be as irritable.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: But uh part of that is um our with our organic mission, and we're just precluded from using a lot of ingredients that that can um you know cause uh irritation and issues because um we're formulating to a 70% organic threshold, which again, once you have 20% active ingredients, for example, let's say in there that are you know either mineral or chemical, you know, that leaves us very little wiggle room to achieve a 70% of the overall.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so um, we also have uh on our no list, we've added over the years, you know, ingredients like the methacone and and um uh silicones, petroleum-based ingredients.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um I you know, I would think that there's there's there's probably a lot, a lot of it there.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but again, it's it's we just want everyone to try to do skin patch tests if they can and sensitivity tests.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, we have very little feedback from people that have you know skin irritations or problems um with the formulas, which um you know it's a it's a it's a wonderful thing uh you know for us to hear, but um I think it's really a combination of a number of different um steps that have taken us to kind of get there.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm sure that was a you know very detailed, you know, journey to be able to accomplish that.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I really applaud you for doing it right.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of brands that I think jump the gun when it comes to uh pushing out products.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, with something like SPF, which is something that has a lot to do with the FDA and clearance, and it's the most medically based, you know, I guess, topical product we can use for our skin when it comes to over-the-counter products.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very difficult to navigate all these parameters and still stay true to like your vision and your brand.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I want you to give us some advice here because I know there's a lot of um, you know, aspiring entrepreneurs in the skincare space.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: They really want to revolutionize or fill a white space.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, uh I can't think of a better person than you to give some advice here about staying true to your vision, staying true to your brand, and creating quality products rather than redundancies.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you could, you know, give some words of wisdom for everyone listening.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think simplicity and focus can't be overstated enough, especially in the beginning.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to have too big a product portfolio.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to have too many variables and moving pieces in your supply chain and your operations.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, you know, we had I had no idea in the beginning with sunscreen, for example, there was an expiration date issue.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and all of a sudden, there's a two year expiration date, you know, approximately for new formulas that you're introducing to market.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: And if you make it at the wrong time of year, um, you know, then you can cut right into a season.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: You only have one year to sell it.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, initially laboratories I was working with, I was making six SKU when I launched, and you know, they were trying to say, oh, you made you know 5,000 pieces of each skew, it's 30,000 total.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: You should have no problem selling that.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's that's that'll be, you know, put it, you know, make it, put it in market, it'll get out there, and we'll see you again next year.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that they really believe that they would ever see me again in the beginning.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it was uh, you know, because that's how you have a steady stream of people coming in, making a product going out.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if I had really you know thought about it and had, you know, going going back, I mean, it would have, I would have been well off, you know, having two or three SKU and really managing that inventory.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, even things like um we hate doing wraps, for example.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: I love the the texture of uh silk screen on a um you know on a piece of glass um or you know, plastic where we do use plastic um or aluminum cans.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, if you had to do a wrap, um, you know, that for example saves you a lot of complexity.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: You have one blank tube or can um or jar, and then you wrap it with um your sticker, your label, your um you know wrap of uh you know, they do a lot of plastic wraps through aluminum cans, for example.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that gives you greater flexibility over your own internal supply chain and um especially the products that you know are seasonal and or expire.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, definitely you know having a focus is incredibly important in the beginning.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but more important even than that, I guess, is really knowing who your brand is, um, uh, what story you want to tell, um, and refining that so much so that you can give that really, you know, that that quick pitch, you have a 30-second, you have a five minute.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can really um you can get into detail with people who want it, but people can understand if they know nothing about your category, they can understand what it is.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you you don't want to be too too narrowly focused either.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, sure you might see a bigger white space for an opportunity, but really how big you know is that market and how are you gonna find those people?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: These days, customer acquisition is so expensive and difficult to try to you know find, you know, if you're such a niche brand to find your market, it's gonna be so expensive.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you really kind of want to find something that people want um and just do it better or solve a problem.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: That people um have with the way that it's currently um being done, you know, and have an authentic true story.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's I hate when they get overcomplicated people's you know origin stories or how they begin, or or you know, if or they they their origin story is you know, they really came off of Instagram within the last year or two, but they try to make it sound like it was a lot more um than it is.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think just being honest and true, you know, it's kind of works and all for who you are.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, nobody's perfect.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, brands have a lot of you know wonderful attributes that um that they're they're great for.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you can't be a master of everything.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, you find the things that you're really good at and you focus at that, um, and you tell a really good story about um you know why it's meaningful um for you, for them, um, for the for you know everybody that it interacts with in the community.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that is, you know, then you're then you can start getting getting going.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and after that, it's it's really surrounding yourself by passionate people who believe in it as well, because it's really hard going it by yourself, doing it alone.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and you really want to have um a team of people who are invested in it as well, um, because it's it's long, brutal hours, and there's um, you know, especially in skincare, I mean, there's it's it's difficult to make it out of the you know, call the so-called minor leagues um of the skincare category and keep on growing just because there's so much competition always.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you know, having having a group of people that you um are like-minded with and enjoy spending time with to you know make it through all of the challenges, and that's it.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: You just you know, I'll say one other thing is willpower.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have incredible willpower and fortitude just to keep on pushing through and belief in what you're doing, even if others don't, um, to make it there.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because um all founders that I know have been successful have had those moments, many moments of potential failure.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: But that type of you know, failure in making it through and sharing those victories together as a as a team, those are the things that really form you know the DNA of a company and you know give you um kind of the constitution to continue with the journey until you can finally you know start to achieve some sort of you know scale and continue to bring in people who are specialized and will really help you then you know navigate what's you know happened before.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, it makes so much sense.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's very real advice.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's very hard to get um you know successful founders to give real insight because you know, a lot of times I'll ask people this question and they'll be like, well, just you know, persevere.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like that's not an answer, you know.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think we all want to persevere, but what you said, I completely agree with you.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, this aspect of the team, it's it's very, very important.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I know, you know, with my background as in medicine, like I couldn't imagine making any decisions like for my patients that are like on a larger scale without my team's input, you know, the people, my colleagues, everybody around me.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think this idea of social media and entrepreneurs that are emerging from the social media um, you know, just uprise, it it's it's nice, but at the same time, I think it's really um it's tricky because I don't think they have teams, you know, like you mentioned.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just one person saying, well, this is my experience, and I want everybody to, you know, just experience what I've experienced.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was actually having a conversation with another founder where um we were discussing that, how people will make these long lists on some, you know, for Sephora or like a Sephora sale, and it's based on influencers, you know, and it's like you're doing, I feel like consumers are doing their homework in the wrong ways, if that makes sense.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, if you really want to learn about sunscreen, and if you really want to learn about um what you should have in your, you know, I guess in your cabinet, you need to find brands that resonate with what kind of results you're looking for.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I would love to get your take on that in terms of like, you know, what customer feedback you guys have gotten in terms of like, you know, finding the brand or sticking with the brand.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like what do your customers say about what they love the most about Kula and you know, all that good stuff?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, it's initially when we were first launching those first couple years, we were really coastal and we were actually really big in in Hawaii, a lot of resorts and even Las Vegas.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh, although obviously Las Vegas, not really coastal, but as a destination, um, a vacation destination.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we really focused on scents in those early days and um as a way to differentiate ourselves from the ubiquitous coconut scent, um, as a um way to you know continue to um form strong bonds kind of with our spa accounts, um, having scents like cucumber and cumeria.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I remember in those first days we would have a lot of feedback that you know they discovered it on vacation, they love the scent.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now we're where do we buy it now?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we weren't focused on direct to consumer, you know, that was a big miss in the early days.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we didn't have you know a lot of distribution, and it was kind of setting up uh you know this network of um outside sales representatives around the country who would help us find these small boutiques and and areas to to retail.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and as time's gone on, I mean it's it's customer being very um customer focused is something that we've spent a lot of time with, especially these last two years, I'll say, um, being much better at that.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: It can be almost overwhelming if you are not doing it correctly and bringing in the right processes and software and people so that you can get back to your customers and consumers really quickly in almost real time with concerns, you know, whether it's a concern um like I got you know some in my eye, what should I do?
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: People want to know right away.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: If they want, they they don't want to be you know concerned or afraid for themselves and their family and you know with an over-the-counter drug, which sunscreen is, um, you know, we want to be very um conscientious of that.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if somebody has any bad experience to get back to them uh quickly.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, fortunately we've um you know it's um you know good experiences predominantly.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's it's then you know, it's how do we uh you know have a regular conversation just with people or thank them for you know being such a uh you know a fan and a longtime user.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um uh you know that's an that's an area of the company as you again continue to grow and become bigger, and you know, every business goes through a struggle.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to become um kind of depersonalized um in a way, but you also need to you know bring efficiencies into the company.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it can't be the same, like I can't be answering every um consumer email you know anymore, which you know I did in the early days.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh and so you know you it's it's really you know bringing in a great team who know how to do that and and can you know communicate in you know the brand you know voice and in the way that we you know want to have this conversation out there um because you know there are obviously you know our biggest fans are gonna be the biggest proponents of you know the brand and sharing it with other people.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um at the end of the day, you know, of course, we just want everyone to have a great experience with it.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, uh my last question for you is really about accessibility because I see a lot of brands that have sunscreen products, but they're just so expensive.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I'm not gonna name a brand, but there's you know, for example, you have your milk drop uh, you know, product, right?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's beautiful, like the you know, the consistency and whatnot, but I've seen similar products that are priced so high, like$300.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sitting here thinking from a science perspective, there's not a big difference, or if any, in the formulation, because at the end of the day, like you said, there are you know parameters that we have to stick to.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: The FDA has its own regulations, there are, you know, there are a lot of things that come into play.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: What is your, you know, just advice to consumers when it comes to shopping smart, you know, I I mean Kula is just a very accessible brand, I feel like, you know, your price ranges are very, very much, you know, um geared towards, I think, everybody.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think anyone can easily obtain a good SPF product um when they they shop your brand.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas there might be a lot of, I don't know, luxury brands or whatever that, you know, they make it almost inaccessible because it's the$300 sunscreen.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Who's gonna buy that?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what I would love to uh hear your take on accessibility and how that's been for the brand in terms of making this available and making it a good price point.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, you know, and it it's it's just all marketing after a certain point.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're totally right.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you know, that$300, you know, margarita or martini that has gold leaf flakes in it that you can buy at a Vegas restaurant, um, which is you know just a um a way for people to you know get in the door and take an Instagram photo of it or something like that.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at a certain point, there there are no better ingredients that you can use.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I truly believe there are no better ingredients that we could possibly use in our formulas to achieve the level of wearability um and um protection um and water resistance um that we require in in our formulas.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um when we first launched uh our products retailed for$32.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: They stayed that for our core uh products.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um they've been at the same for um uh 13 years.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: We just two years ago were able, once we started achieving better scale, we actually brought down our price per ounce for our sprays.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and um I believe$28 right now.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: Put me on the spot, I have to look it up and see exactly what it is.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um but we were able to bring it down basically.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um because you know, we you know at a certain point, you want to make healthy sun care accessible.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we want everybody to have the opportunity to have it.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um we need to make a certain margin to run the business, but we are not um, you know, we are you know our margins are you know, they're they're way smlimmer, I'll call it, than skincare products.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, skincare products have way more margin than a sun care product.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um once you have all the testing and requirements from SPF validation, water resistance, RPT, um uh it just it really will add up um for a sun care product.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it is not it's not a high margin product.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that's one of the reasons why there hasn't been a lot of innovation in the space, is because it's been so difficult for brands to kind of come in and to to scale up and grow.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, only recently have there been a couple brands um that have you know grown and started displacing some of the you know old heritage brands um out there, either you know in mass or premium.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's it's I think margins are a big you know part of the challenge.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a lot of other ones as well, especially once you achieve kind of mass scale and distribution um uh where um it becomes particularly challenging.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: But um you know, there you know, this is you know what we this is this is probably just as as cheap as we could sell it for um what we're what we're currently selling it for um right now.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: We know it's more expensive than um a lot of you know mass market sunscreens.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, much more expensive.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I not not so much anymore.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it's um but it's what it's what we can do um with the ingredients that we want to bring in into the products.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, I don't think it's much more expensive these days.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: You go to the drugstore, everything's at least$15 to$20.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, I don't I don't think I've walked into a Walgreens in the last two years and bought anything when it comes to skin health or beauty products.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's less than that.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I I definitely think your pricing is very, very fair, you know, to say the least.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's definitely something that you know we have to consider as consumers is we're buying not only products, but we have to consider the quality and we have to consider the value that we're getting, right?
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Return of investment kind of thing.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the the way that the products are made and the size and the the amount that you're getting.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's truly amazing.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you've done such a phenomenal job.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the brand is definitely one of my all-time favorites.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: I could not rave about it enough.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I've been recommending it for many years to my friends.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I actually uh wanted to tell you this.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: I spent um uh a few years overseas.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was in the Caribbean doing pro bono work um, you know, uh in medicine and I was using, I actually had cooler with me, you know, I brought it with me.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was something I loved, you know, it's it's something I went to, it's a go-to brand.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I everyone listening, I really urge you, you know, if you're if you're considering your SPF routine and you're looking into how to optimize it, or you know, if it's a makeup problem like we mentioned before or anything, look into you know, brands like this that are really innovating all the different ways that we can incorporate truly you know sun protective products.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I can't stress that enough.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean I'm a huge fan, Chris.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: I really am.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you could see me, I have a very big smile on my face.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that very much.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh yeah, you know, at the end of the day, if you're gonna splurge on one product, I mean again, I don't think it's necessarily even a splurge, but you know, sunscreen in skincare, um uh, you know, it's combined in an organic product.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's there's um yeah, skin cancer is still the most common form of cancer in the United States.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it is, yes, absolutely.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't think about that.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually talking to Dr.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Markowitz.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know if you had a chance to catch that episode, but um definitely listen to it.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: She was actually talking about this, like the prevalence of skin cancer and um, you know, just talking about like especially melanoma and stuff, you know, she was really going into like that this new technique they have now, which is you know, early diagnosis and stuff.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, this is a this is a fact that people really don't know about.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Consumers don't understand that skin cancer is one of the easiest cancers, one, to get, and two, it's the most prevalent.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, a hundred percent, you know, and and this is all leads back to education, you know, and and really spreading awareness.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, a lot more brands need to focus on that aspect because consumers don't know.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I really think that that's behind why people are not applying sunscreen every two hours.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like you you you can't just do it for, you know, in the morning and then 10 hours later expect your skin to still be protected.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna happen.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way, you know, you have to think about this stuff.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone listening, I really urge you check out Kula, check out the products.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna, there's something for everyone, honestly.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't say that about many brands, but this is one of the few brands that I've found.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: There is something for everyone, whether you're uh female or a male, it doesn't matter.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's just good products, it's a good brand.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely check them out.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: And Chris, I'm gonna uh link everything, you know, for our listeners in the podcast art for this, but it has truly been such an honor to have you on the show and to learn from you.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for this opportunity.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's been listen, it's been a real pleasure and an honor on my end.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like you know, we could continue talking for another hour, no problem here.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I you know, I I again you know, I appreciate the opportunity to you know share more about Kula and our company and just um talk with you uh about you know skincare in general.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: So again, thank you for having me on.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I look forward to talking to you again sometime soon, hopefully.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to have you on anytime your schedule allows.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone listening, if you guys have any questions at all for Chris's team, please leave them in our comment section, whether it's on Instagram or TikTok or anywhere, because we, you know, we're trying to expand all of our social media platforms, and there's going to be a lot of fun TikTok videos coming up with Kula and fun uh routines that you guys can really go to.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a good starting place, you know, if you don't know how to approach your routine.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um, check it out, let us know, and we will definitely pass them along to Chris's team.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, thank you so much, Chris.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is such an honor.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, again, thank you.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll I will say I've never never did a uh I've never done TikTok routine or or TikTok, but I will um I will make one for you if you will show me how.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, no, absolutely.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna send you with some videos that I make because I I love playing around.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I I think we should do it.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have my own routine.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: I use the um I use the the golden hour and then I use the mist and I just buff it in with my my makeup brush, and it's just beautiful.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like my complexion just looks great.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even really need makeup half the time.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm definitely gonna be putting a few routines up there.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone listening, stay tuned for that and check out our TikTok.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I will be back next time.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, Chris, I look forward to talking to you again soon, hopefully.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: Really, again, really, really appreciate it.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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