Latest / The Bridges and Beacons Podcast / Chiropractic, Yoga and Holistic Wellness with Dr. Erika Putnam

Transcript

Chiropractic, Yoga and Holistic Wellness with Dr. Erika Putnam · The Bridges and Beacons Podcast

• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: I am so happy to have you all here this morning.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I am joined by Erica Putnam, and I'm really excited for our conversation today.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Erica Putnam, holistic chiropractic physician, is the owner of the Bend in Whitefish, Montana.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: She's an expert in whole health through chiropractic, yoga, nutrition, and lifestyle coaching for women and men wanting to improve their bodies, energy, and happiness.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: A whole person approach is the key to health.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can find her at thebend at whitefish.com.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Good morning and welcome, Erica.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: So good to have you.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Good morning, Kelly.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's nice to be with you.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm excited because I know when we talked on the phone to talk about like what are we going to bring up?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: What's our conversation going to be?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: We were totally geeking out, which is perfect because that's what I like to do on this show.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to start with kind of my favorite topic.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm into wellness and well-being, and it seems like it's a very big buzzword that in self-care these days.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the perspective that a lot of us bring is that holistic vibe.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: So how would you define holistic wellness?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you say that all I can think of is which way do you spell it?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: W H or H, right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: So whole or whole.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost a lead-in of how you look at it, I think, to some degree.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So how I define that, which is really what you asked me, is um, I think it includes whole person.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not only all of the organ systems, but it's all of the layers of a person, which is the bigger picture, the spiritual picture, the um emotional components, the physical components.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's inclusive, not exclusive.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I like that.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Inclusive versus exclusive.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: I totally appreciate that.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: My background is in occupational therapy.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: So part of our practice is also always holistic, always looking at all the different pieces.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate that coming from you both as a chiropractor and as a yoga teacher.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: So what brought you into putting together yoga and chiropractic?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, sometimes people look at chiropractic as like, okay, go get your back cracked and then kind of move on with your day.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not really your approach to helping your clients.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I well, so I've been at this almost 30 years.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you you look gorgeous and young for anybody who's listening.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: She's glowing.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever she's doing, we want more of.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so because I've been at it so long, um, I realized, you know, at some point, probably fairly early on, that adjusting has a lot of miraculous benefits and it's a super good, healthy life practice, lifestyle, um, elective medicine, so to speak.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I also really realized I could only do so much for people, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could adjust them, but if they didn't do good nutrition, if they didn't exercise, if they didn't um get good sleep, all of those things, it just had a limited benefit.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it frustrated me because I wanted them to get better.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And for a long time I sort of almost took it personally, you know, like why can't I make them better?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had to really reach into all these other areas.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Originally, when I was um going to school, I was going into dietetics.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I've always had a real interest in nutrition.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've really in my practice today, I still feel like nutrition is a huge component because of inflammation and how how the body responds to food.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um I just brought all those components in.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then I found yoga and I was introduced.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So originally before I went to chiropractic school, I was um, I worked in a health club, I managed a health club and I did a lot of weight training.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I taught aerobics.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I remember a yogi lady came in and she tried to do yoga, and I was like, this is so weird.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was, oh, I just want to get fit and have muscles, right?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I didn't understand it.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then 20 years later, I went to a retreat and took yoga and I was like, this is the best thing that ever happened to me.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I cried and I I just felt into my my spirit and connected with some great people.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I just came to it by accident, honestly.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I started realizing what a good way I could put it into my practice with my patients because the first thing most people ask me, what exercises do I do?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a great question, but it's usually untimely, right?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like at that point, they can't tie their shoes, they sure can't do exercise.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: So finding a way to move them, you know, into that question, yet still let them get benefit has been a real interesting challenge and kind of a journey in itself of how do I do both things.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I love that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I love how you shared your evolution of kind of where you went in your own personal journey from like what you saw fitness as versus what it might look like for you now and how that sort of fits into the whole component of being healthy, but that's not the only piece of it.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you use this term base camp.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Can you describe that a little bit for me?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so curious about it.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe I like the word camp because I'm also a hunter and I like camping and I like outdoors.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I really recognize that with people there is a baseline of health, right?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So most of the time when they're coming into to me or to you or to a healthcare practitioner, they've lost ground to some degree.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And more than anything, I feel like they want to shoe clear up here.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it somehow we got to get them there first, right?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's these incremental steps and trying to really get people to understand that I think is a bit of a challenge, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like they think they're here and they got broken and they go, like, this is how it works.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And as we age and as we deteriorate or we don't exercise or we don't eat right, we just are losing ground to some degree.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like that's a good concept for you know, finding that baseline, finding that base camp.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then what are the practices that keep you there or keep you start to go above it arising?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what really excites me about that is that, you know, I I help people with their sleep, and that's a habit.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: And when we talk about habits, you know, people think bad habits, but it's the small incremental changes that are most impactful and the ones that you can manage.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you said, when you're you're sort of at this base level and you drop below it, and then you're shooting so high, it's like those New Year's resolutions.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, I'm gonna go to the gym and work out an hour and a half every day, but I've never actually been to the gym.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that kind of like defeated kind of goal setting for yourself versus thinking, like, what is my base?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where am I starting from, or where was I?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: And how do I make those little steps and sort of tackle the whole picture?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because those little steps also aren't usually just one thing, right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you've lost ground in sleep, you've lost ground in energy, you've lost ground in digestion, you've lost ground in flexibility.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So all of those things need a bit of a practice, and there's not just like one magic exercise that does all of that for people.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to kind of pick and choose.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I uh, you know, when people say, well, where do we start?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I usually say, What is screaming the loudest, right?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you start there and make some improvement there, stop the bleeding, so to speak, then you can move on.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if we never even get to that that first part, it's hard to move on to other things that will cause improvement.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I totally agree with you.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I like to help people with like the low-hanging fruit.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is it that you really you really need?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: What's right in front of you?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: And let's start there.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, can you give us like an example of like you have somebody that comes in and and maybe they've got, you know, we'll just make up a fictitious somebody comes in and and they've got limited mobility in their neck and they're coming to you and they're kind of doing that, but then you find out like part of that is their posture or lack of balance in muscles, or you know, how how would you start to help them?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like what is your your first go-to for them?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think some of that is history, right?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's different if a guy fell out of a plane and broke his neck, right?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: A lady who's been working as a receptionist for 20 years.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's different if you weigh 280 pounds or you weigh 120 pounds.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it posture is a huge component.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you have an exercise background, it's a huge component.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And often this is what I do with some of my yoga teacher training is I'm trying to kind of get the teachers to recognize that it's not all about flexibility, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen so many x-rays that really a headstand's not good for everybody, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So when you start looking at x-rays and putting the x-rays together with the person so that you've got really what is this foundational, you know, meat sack built on, you can really see what's possible.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody, let's say somebody wants to get better range of motion, but they have bone spurs on both sides, it's not gonna happen.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not all, you know, there's no amount of promises or three times a week that's gonna get them there.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like being honest about where you are structurally to begin with is one starting place that we have to look at.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't x-ray everybody, but if the history sort of indicates it, and I'm always surprised.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, somebody's 28 and they have a complete reversal of a curve or a segment that's really degenerative.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's very surprising.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, I took a lot for granted.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing the real facts is I think a good place to start.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that so much.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's like the big difference, you know, coming from a whole perspective, like that full medical workup, that understanding, you know, what is all underlying, you know, and I I I see that a lot of times in my practice as an occupational therapist, you know, somebody will come to me, like if I'm working with my kiddos and the parent is like, they're not sleeping.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I could give you strategies for sleep.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: But if the real issue is metabolic, medical, if they're having seizures, I'm not doing anything for you.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, like that background in history is such a huge piece of the puzzle.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think also speaks to that holistic perspective as well, that we're not just gonna take things at face value, but deep dive into it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think that comes from people's perspective of what we do, right?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: They just think they're coming in because their back hurts, but we have to take a bigger, broader look at what's happening because fixing the back is certainly it's probably not gonna last very long.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that what I hope for people is that they not only have their pain go away, but they also incorporate some healthier lifestyles for longevity and quality of life.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't know that all people think that we that's our perspective as chiropractors.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's sometimes just limited to fix my back and which which we're good at, but I think we're better at incorporating lifestyle.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think that makes such a huge difference.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm coming at it from kind of an interesting perspective because as a kid, I I had a scoliosis, which was treated via chiropractic, which, you know, isn't always the case.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times there's different bracing and things that happen, but for some reason my parents happened upon a very holistic chiropractor, and he was very into nutrition.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And like this is going back like before it was the thing that everybody was doing, you know.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it had a huge impact on my my health and well-being as a kid that you know I was receiving this constant care and this, you know, focus on that whole picture.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes things aren't correctable, right?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have what you have to some degree, and that's where the x-rays make a difference, or you know, the kind of the reality of that that you um have a per a certain metabolic disease, or you know, those things that affect our health that you can only correct things so much.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to say you have to lower your expectation, but I do think that you have to say, okay, you know, accept where you are and then work with it the best you can because you can have the best of a lot of situations like a scoliosis, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be a a bad sentence, but it does have to be something that's well managed, or it does degenerate quicker and then you have long-term effects.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't know, then you're not doing anything about it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's worth finding out what you have going on.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So how how would you incorporate, like, let's say you're working with a client, how do you introduce them to the concept of more of a holistic approach?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if they're coming to you and they're just like, Dr.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Putnam, it's just my back, like I just need you to fix this, and then I'm I'm that's it.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want it fixed, I want to go home and be done with it.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: But you kind of sense that there's a lot more that you could offer them.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: How does that work for you?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how do I poke at the bear?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there, you know, people have conversations behind the conversation, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you can read through things a little bit.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um a basic uh check-in sheet says, what would you like more of to sleep better, to feel better, to have better sex?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all of these things, right?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you can sort of see where they might be leaning in a particular direction.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, their history, maybe they have a lot of family history, so it makes you think, oh, maybe this is an inflammatory arthritis, not just back pain.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there's that.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think there's some direct questions.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like some I've started incorporating the question, what are you doing for self-care?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just as bring it up, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you get nothing or you get everything, you get an idea of how hard are they gonna work to get better, where is where is their starting point?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how are you gonna integrate things like water or supplements?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a little bit of meeting people where they are, and I think it's a little bit of asking some questions in the direction of what I see is uh long-term, longevity, high quality life, right?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it depends where they are and where they want to go.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody wants that level of um responsibility with their health or um management or practices, you know.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Some people just aren't there yet.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I hate when it's a health crisis that takes them there, but I just oh god, we've all been there, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, okay, this is my body telling me this is the time that I'm gonna address all of these underlying issues.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's no more pretending like everything is okay.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like I need to really, you know, change things for myself.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Have you had kind of that that come you know, come to Jesus moment where you were like, all right, this is the make or break moment where I'm I'm turning and my health and well-being is taking top priority, whatever that means for me.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think because I'm old, Kelly, it's happened many times, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like just when it gets good, then you have an injury, you know.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I broke my hands once, I had frozen shoulder by little frozen shoulder two years ago.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've had lots of back pain.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what it gives me a healthy respect for pain, right?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think that's the other thing.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: When someone's in pain, it's like if you're talking about sleep, they don't care, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you so there is this component that we do need to manage pain and injuries when they happen, and that's a really valuable service.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's just not it's not the end-all feel-all, but yeah, certainly hu not humiliated, definitely humiliated, but but also um humbled by pain.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh my gosh, that's a whole other conversation.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I I I I love that one because pain takes so many different forms and means of managing could be anywhere on the spectrum.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So when someone comes in and pain is sort of the biggest symptom for them, how how do you help them manage that?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I realize that's kind of like a like a it's gonna be different for everyone.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: But like, what is the best case scenario for for managing pain?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think diagnosis, honestly, like if you if you understand what your diagnosis is, you give them better direction, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Something somebody's had for three months is different than something when they broke their collarbone on the ski hill yesterday, right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So so there's just acute care and then there's chronic care.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's it's really managing that and setting a good expectation, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I expect this is gonna take this long, um, or it could take this long because these are the complicating features you have.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do things, you'll do better.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't do things, you won't get better.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some of those conversations you have to have in and around injuries or pain, I think directs them and helps them.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a matter of like this is what I've noticed about back pain.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like people somehow like think it's back there, and it didn't really happen until it happens, but it's gonna get better like yesterday.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I always tell people, look, if you sprained your ankle, you would not go walking in the mall for two hours, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they go, no.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: But somehow they think they're gonna go to work and they're gonna exercise when it's back pain.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, you're not gonna go walking.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I I think that's really important.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think the the setting of expectations and having that open conversation about what what this could potentially look like, the timing of it, so that people aren't feeling defeated in the first few days of like, this is not this is not relieving my pain.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is this is going to take a little bit of time.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have the foundation to support the changes, it's like we all understand a broken bone is gonna hurt and it's gonna take time.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: But when it's a disc or it's a muscle sprain or it's a ligament sprain, it's really hard because you felt maybe okay the day before, and now you have this.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's discouraging, you know.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have to give them a timeline and almost compare it to something they know.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like if this was a broken bone, then da-da-da-da-da.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a similar thing, different tissue.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that's that's such a great approach to take with people because they need to understand it.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this might be their first time having experience with some sort of medical meat sack breakdown.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: I like that term, meat sack.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, some sort of breakdown in their body.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: They may have just been kind of going in motion and not experiencing something like that before.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So getting it to a level that they can comprehend what that really means.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, especially when Advil is really effective.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Sure is.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't create healing and tissues.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if if we get them knowing what's really happening, and I think also like talking about their values, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: If they need to be back at work or if they need to be um their competitive skier, you know, figuring out what their value are lets you have the conversation with them about why you need to do this, what makes it important to do, how the whole healing process is gonna take.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because what often happens, they they feel better, and the second they feel better, they go back to doing it and they re-injure, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like one of the best things can happen is you're gonna feel better, but don't do too much yet, right?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Don't start doing back bends today.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, today's not the day.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Today's not the day.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's give that that your body some time to heal, and healing does take time.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I love this approach that you have with your with your clients and your patients, and I'm sure it has such a nice effect, but you are taking it kind of another level with not only being a great chiropractor yourself and a great yoga instructor, I'm sure, but you want to be at the level of teaching people to inform how they're using their practice.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I know you're in the process of writing a book for yoga instructors.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: So tell me a little bit about that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it's taken a while to come to that place.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like um yoga, at least the training, is somewhat limited in anatomy and it's somewhat limited in maybe body function and physics, physiology or mechanical movement, let's say.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there are certainly a lot of qualified professionals who come into yoga as well.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not saying that as an overall thing, but um the people who just don't have the medical background, um, I think can be in the mindset of do this pose, like this this pose is what we're achieving, and and everybody can get there.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And because I've looked at so many x-rays and I and I have had so many patients who are yoga students come to me, yoga teachers that come to me, I see the trend in here's the cueing that you learn in yoga school, so to speak, and here's how this results in injury, or here's how this person won't go back to yoga because they're afraid of this pose or because they have an injury.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, and one of the things that I personally don't love about yoga books is little pictures of yoga poses.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, I'm like, how do you write a yoga book about a pose without putting a picture of a pose?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I've had to kind of come around to how do I want to write this book?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I've decided to write stories, like mostly clinical stories.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Kelly comes in.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: She has such and such, she did such and such in yoga, and here's how we would approach this from a teaching standpoint.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, so that's how I'm writing the book and why I'm writing the book.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think that's so fantastic because you know, understanding anatomy and having that background is such like I know for myself when I go to do certain poses due to imbalances in my muscles, you know, downward dog is not just downward dog.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like where are you generating the support from?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Are you using your bones?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Are you using your muscles?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are your shoulders up or are they down?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: What else should be engaged at the same time?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, and I've had the experience of like, oh, I'm just going to do the poses and generally get myself into trouble because I'm not really thinking about my body mechanics and and limitations in either strength or stability.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and even as a yoga teacher, you know, if you know the difference between hypermobility and hypomobility, you know, too much or too little, you could help your students keep from hurting themselves, right?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a broad level overview of just some concepts is important.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not expecting to teach them anatomy.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they can learn learn that else.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, certainly that would be a component of it.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there are some broad concepts that I feel like could keep people in class safer or potentially direct them.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I owned a yoga studio when I was in Idaho and I would check people in before class or whatever, you know, and I can hear the conversation.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the most common question was or conversation was I went to the doctor today and have da-da-da-da-da.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then they would go to the teacher or me and say, What stretch do I do for that?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh my gosh, don't stretch that at all.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you know about such and such?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Are you happy?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let how about taping, you know, like so it's such a common thing that the yoga teachers get approached with that I don't feel like they're armed to um answer, or they answer, just do this stretch.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like they answer the question that came at them rather than redirect the question.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really important place to like know your role because other than that, you could potentially hurt someone.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly you can help people, but you might hurt them.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that's such a great point.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I went through so much of my life thinking I was really flexible and I'm actually just hypermobile.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, once I went through OT school and you know, all the anatomy and physiology, and you go into the labs and you watch how everybody moves, and they like call out the people with like the scapular winging and stuff, and you're like, oh man, I thought that was like a skill I had.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Turns out I'm just like low muscle tone and hypermobile bummer.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest myth about yoga.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think yoga makes you more flexible.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in truth, I think yoga is a great, great um activity for strengthening, like strengthening small muscles, especially supportive of the spine.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's such a great complement to chiropractic.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's body awareness, there's a little bit of motion at every segment, not all of it at one.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a good strengthener, but people think it's very much about flexibility.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Not that it's not, but it's really about strength.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is very hard.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: If you, if you actually like don't just rely on your hypermobility, just talking from my own experience, but you're actually, you know, there are some really good teachers out there who are making sure they're monitoring how you are using your muscles to support yourself and like saying to you, do not push yourself into hypermobility to achieve this position.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you need to modify it with blocks or something, then you do that.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that that is probably the more responsible way to approach it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like a lot of us get into competition with other people, like, you know, we wanna we wanna look the part of the yogi and like I can do this, you know, I can pull all of these poses, but uh, it's not always in a safe manner.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yoga has kind of gotten to be this supposed to look thing, like everybody has their tree pose in the forest, kind of a thing.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's an I think it's an interesting new development in yoga.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just it's on the awareness screen like it wasn't 20 years ago.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: It it's really fascinating.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is really fascinating.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: And like I where I live in Northern, New Jersey, there's yoga studios all over the place.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: And like you see, people are are like very like proud when they hit these these, you know, moments like like headstands and handstands, and believe me, like anything that I do is probably more restorative than it is like trying to achieve or hot yoga or like all of these like very trendy things that people get into.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the things that you said that I think is also kind of circles back is that one of the other reasons I really like yoga in practice is because people are in stress, they're frightened or flight, way too much as far as adrenals and things like that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yoga is calming and it's restorative and it's nurturing, and it's a really great practice to help the stress level come down so the body can heal.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: I I agree with you, and I think understanding yourself too, and like I tend to have like higher levels of cortisol and adrenaline.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a type A personality.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I've read like the books like, you know, live right for your blood type and how we all sort of have a different breakdown.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I always thought like there was something wrong with me that I couldn't like push and do these like 60-minute cardios and all these things that I people would say you'll feel so good when you're done.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: I always felt horrible, but I went to like a restorative yoga class, and this is probably going back like 14 years, and it was like the most transformational moment of my life.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, you know, getting into these poses that were just very gentle and breathing, and I was like, oh, this is what my like stress level needs, this kind of movement versus like going into something where I'm just like full-on aerobic.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and with that, what I've noticed about that is like it's the same as chiropractic, right?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like the chiropractic doesn't mean we all practice the same.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: You have really aggressive practitioners, you have really gentle practitioners, you have lots of techniques, and the same as with yoga.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if I always tell people like, don't just go to one yoga class and decide if you like it or don't, go to a lot of them because the instructors are different.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the population in one class is different, the attitudes are different, and it's worth seeking out something that fits for you.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And often, like you're saying, it's not the it's not necessarily what we think we want, right?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: You like you think I'm going to this yoga class, I'm gonna burn some calories, and then you lie on the floor the whole time and you're like, oh my gosh, I needed that so much.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then you discover, you know, restorative yoga, or you discover another kind of yoga, or you discover a word that just sticks with you all day that had nothing to do with yoga.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, and I, you know, a number of years ago, I was I was taking a yoga class at at a woman's house like not far from where I worked with a couple of my coworkers, and it was like just lovely.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: She was lovely, she was very like gentle and thoughtful, and she always asked, like, how are you today?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'd come and I'd be like, Oh my gosh, I have a migraine today.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, Okay, so these are the poses I want you to do today to help manage your migraine.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I would always find at the end of the session, we'd be lying on our mats, closing our eyes on the floor, and I would inevitably fall asleep.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: And now I look back and I'm like, Yeah, girl, you were a little sleep deprived.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like you needed to sleep.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now I get it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now I get it.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love when people snore in my class.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of my favorite things, actually.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, we did a good job.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're like, oh, okay.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe I need to stop moving a little bit before I go to bed and relax a little bit rather than going like a hundred miles an hour and then laying down and thinking my brain and my body are just gonna be ready for sleep to come.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, too funny.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: I that's the kind of yoga class I want to be in where people can very comfortably like fall asleep and snore and feel like love and aberration from everybody there.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Not like, what is wrong with you?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I love this so much.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, so when do you expect this book is coming out?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: This sounds like it's such an essential, you know, book for people who are out there trying to expand the world of yoga.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working on it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have a deadline for about eight weeks to finish up.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, in that timeline, I'm also one of the things I'm waiting on is I'm doing a beta workshop for yoga teachers so that we can go through some some of these basic ideas, have some conversations, and I might pull some extra ideas from doing the workshops.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll be taking some of that information and putting it to workshop form shortly.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Is that gonna be something local to you, or are you gonna offer it virtually as well?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't decided about virtually yet.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'll do a few live workshops.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I really like being with people like you know, like you can just walk up to them and move their bodies or ask them to do something like that.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I like experiences like people in their bodies.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so as much as I can in live, but I also realize there are people who might still want the information who will be far away.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see if I can figure out that platform to do that.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's such a great approach.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, this is gonna be such an essential piece for people.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this hasn't really been something that's been put out there in the world, and it sounds like it's really needed.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm also working on so I'm gonna do one workshop for teachers, and then I want to do some for people who are doing yoga.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, more or less, how do you do yoga?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Help don't hurt yourself in yoga.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have so many people who say, Okay, well, when are you teaching your classes?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be in your class, but I'm afraid.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're afraid to start yoga, they don't know what to do.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like if you just have that little bit of a cushion-y course that's you know gives you some ideas, especially if you're managing something like back pain or knee problem or shoulder problem, give you some idea of do this, not that.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you know if your yoga teacher says that, respect that, but potentially you're responsible for your own body in this way.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: So for both of those populations, I I'm interested in work those workshops.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, that's awesome.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll make sure we get all of the information on how to connect with you.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if if people are local to you in Montana or if they want to catch up with you on some of the virtual courses that you're teaching, that sounds amazing.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know I personally would love something like that, like just to be armed with some more information before taking something on.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think also the piece that, you know, is hard for people is in the past couple of years, a lot of people have switched to doing their exercise via virtual instruction.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I mean, there are some great videos and great people out there, but if you have a virtual instructor, like you said, they can't see the nuances always of your movement or they don't see you at all.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: They're just it's on YouTube or something, and it's it's not a back and forth kind of an opportunity.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I think the the learning curve in the moment is really special.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: This has been so much fun talking about this topic, and I want to make sure that you come back when the book is ready, and you know, you could show on the on the video what it looks like, but it sounds like such an amazing work of art and science, which are two of my favorite things.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really excited for you, Erica, and I'm so appreciative of you coming out today.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and thank you.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Any final words for our listeners and viewers?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Anything that they can do if they're ready to kind of start their journey with yoga?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, certainly they can look at my website, that's the benditwhitefish.com, or reach out to me um via email.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Would love to have that.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: You heard it here.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that you all have a wonderful day and be well.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Erica.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Kelly.