Latest / Pod Save America / Trump's Crackdown on Dissent

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Trump's Crackdown on Dissent · Pod Save America

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• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor.
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  Speaker 3: On today's show, Donald Trump may plunge the country into
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: a recession, but seems oddly okay with it, which seems
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: like a problem for all of us that we'll talk about.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: We'll also get into the throwdown between Elon Musk and
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Trump's cabinet during a meeting where Elon reportedly fought with
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Marco Rubio over not firing enough people and Sean Duffy
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: over Musk's attempt to fire air traffic controllers. Excited to
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: fly this week.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I know.
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  Speaker 3: Then we'll cover Democrats' debate over the party's shutdown strategy
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: and basically everything else. And speaking of Democrats, Lovett will
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: regale us with tales from his weekend trip to Michigan
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: where he caught up with Bernie Sanders on his fight
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: oligarchy tour.
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  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I did.
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  Speaker 3: Look at you.
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  Speaker 4: Feeling the burn.
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  Speaker 3: Quick little trip to Michigan.
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  Speaker 1: One day. One day.
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  Speaker 3: But first, we try not to alarm you all on
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  Speaker 3: this show unless it's necessary. But there are a few
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  Speaker 3: stories out there about the Trump regime cracking down on
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: dissent and opposition that make you wonder how we'd react
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: if this was happening in another country. So over the weekend,
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  Speaker 3: ICE agents with the federal government detained a legal permanent
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: resident in New York, took him away from his very
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  Speaker 3: pregnant wife, threw him in a detention center in Louisiana,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: all despite the fact that they have not charged him
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: with a crime. His name is Mahmoud Khalil, and he's
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: a Columbia graduate who's been the leader of the university's
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: pro-Gaza protests. Trump is bragging about the arrest and said
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: that it's part of his promise to find and deport
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: any student protesters who he believes have engaged in what
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: he's calling, quote, pro-terrorist, anti-Semitic, anti-American activity. The Trump administration
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: also cited anti-Semitism as the reason they're canceling $ 400 million
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: in grants and contracts to Columbia University and As a note,
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: more than a quarter of the school's operating budget comes
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  Speaker 3: from federal grants, so this is going to have a
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: real impact on faculty, on students, on tuition costs, all
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: the rest.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: They could spend a little bit of that fucking endowment, though.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with it, I'm just saying.
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  Speaker 4: Anyway, continue.
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  Speaker 3: Hope they don't come after Williams.
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  Speaker 1: Listen, first they came for Columbia and I did not
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: speak out, for I went to a small liberal arts
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: college in northwestern Massachusetts that few people have heard of.
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  Speaker 3: Trump also signed an executive order on Friday that orders
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: the government's public service loan forgiveness program. You get help
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: with your student loans if you go into a career
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: in public service. It's been around forever. To exclude anyone
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: at any group that provides or supports gender affirming care
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: for minors, helps undocumented immigrants, or runs DEI programs. On Thursday,
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  Speaker 3: he signed an executive order canceling all federal contracts, security clearances,
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: and even access to federal buildings from Perkins Coie, a
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: law firm that does a lot of work for Democrats.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: The courthouses are federal buildings, and so which is where
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  Speaker 3: they would practice law.
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  Speaker 4: That's a good point.
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  Speaker 3: Last month, Trump signed a similar order canceling security clearances
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  Speaker 3: for anyone at the law firm of Covington and Burling
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: because they did some work with Jack Smith. Here's Trump
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: talking about this decision with Fox News' Maria Bartiromo on
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  Speaker 3: Sunday morning.
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  Speaker 5: We have a lot of law firms that we're going
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  Speaker 5: to be going after. Because they were very dishonest people.
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  Speaker 5: They were very, very dishonest. They could go point after
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  Speaker 5: point after point. And it was so bad for our country.
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  Speaker 5: And we have a lot of law firms that we're
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  Speaker 5: going after. Cool.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Very cool. Let's start with the Columbia situation. And I
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: should note that right before we recorded, a judge has
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: temporarily blocked Khalil's deportation until there's an actual hearing, which
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I believe is scheduled for Wednesday, at least the first
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: of maybe a couple. How big of a deal is this?
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  Speaker 6: I think individually, all these stories are a huge deal.
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  Speaker 6: And collectively, it's an assault on free speech like we
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  Speaker 6: haven't seen in a very long time.
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  Speaker 4: It should worry everybody.
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  Speaker 6: Starting with Columbia, I mean, sometimes when Trump does something
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  Speaker 6: that's so far over the line, conservatives react honestly for
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: about 24 hours.
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  Speaker 4: You notice this? That happened in this case.
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  Speaker 6: Ann Coulter tweeted, there's almost no one I don't want
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  Speaker 6: to deport, but unless they've committed a crime, isn't this
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  Speaker 6: a violation of the First Amendment?
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  Speaker 4: Yes, Ann. Yes, it is.
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  Speaker 6: And I think With free speech issues, in the abstract,
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  Speaker 6: we should be agnostic about the topic, the people involved,
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  Speaker 6: whether you agree or disagree with what they said, whether
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  Speaker 6: you find it offensive or not. If a lawful permanent
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  Speaker 6: resident can be rounded up by ICE agents or the
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  Speaker 6: Department of Homeland Security, thrown into jail without charges, without
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  Speaker 6: even being charged or accused of a crime, that should
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  Speaker 6: worry everybody.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a small detail, but they didn't have
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: to send this person to Louisiana. There's detention facilities. There's
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  Speaker 1: ways of processing him in New York, New Jersey. So
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  Speaker 1: this is like.
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  Speaker 3: And originally they did have him in New York, New Jersey,
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  Speaker 3: and then they transferred him to Louisiana.
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  Speaker 1: And so it's meant to be punitive. He's a lawful
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  Speaker 1: permanent resident for very good reason. Lawful permanent residents are
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  Speaker 1: protected by the First Amendment the same way we're all
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: protected by the First Amendment. There are ways in which
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: the government can revoke somebody's immigration status, but it's not
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  Speaker 1: as punishment for speech you don't like. And by the way,
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  Speaker 1: it's not even as punishment for speech you don't like
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  Speaker 1: that may be associated with protests in which some people
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  Speaker 1: broke the rules or broke the law or what have you.
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  Speaker 1: You charge somebody with a crime, right? If he broke
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  Speaker 1: the law, you charge that person with whatever that crime is.
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  Speaker 1: That due process then may ultimately result in somebody losing
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  Speaker 1: immigration status, something that happens all the time if you
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: get fraud when you apply, right? There's lots of ways
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: immigration status can be revoked. But no, you can't just say, oh,
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  Speaker 1: this person is participating in protests, and it was very
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Orwellian language, and I'd never say Orwellian because it's been
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  Speaker 1: such a fucking cliche and just overused phrase, but to
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  Speaker 1: say it was for protests aligned to terrorist organizations is
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  Speaker 1: deeply strange.
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  Speaker 3: One of the ways that you can revoke a green card,
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  Speaker 3: and by the way, like you said, the State Department
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  Speaker 3: cannot just revoke a green card on its own. It
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: has to go through a hearing. There has to be
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  Speaker 3: an immigration judge involved. One of the ways you can
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  Speaker 3: revoke a green card is if someone is a member
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  Speaker 3: of a terrorist organization or an extremist organization or has
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  Speaker 3: provided support, right? It's a threat to the United States
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  Speaker 3: because they're providing support to a terrorist organization. So clearly
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  Speaker 3: the White House wants to say that anyone who participated
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  Speaker 3: in these protests is Hamas or providing support to Hamas.
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  Speaker 3: But again, no crime has been charged and no evidence
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  Speaker 3: has been provided that this person provided any kind of
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  Speaker 3: material support to Hamas or was part of Hamas or
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  Speaker 3: anything like that.
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  Speaker 4: I think most terrorism.
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  Speaker 6: prosecutions are providing material support. So if they had any
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  Speaker 6: evidence of that, they would have charged this kid with
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  Speaker 6: a crime.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly.
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  Speaker 5: Exactly.
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  Speaker 3: And by the way, the way this happened is he
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  Speaker 3: was coming home and outside his apartment, there were four
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  Speaker 3: plainclothes agents and they identified themselves to him and his wife.
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  Speaker 3: They asked who he was and then they said, you're
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  Speaker 3: coming with us. His wife, who's eight months pregnant, ran
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  Speaker 3: to get his green card because they said, oh, we're
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  Speaker 3: taking away your student visa. And she's like, well, he's
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: not a student visa holder. He's a green card holder.
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  Speaker 3: And then the ICE agent is on the phone with
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  Speaker 3: someone who's like, oh, we're taking him in anyway.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're doing this on the fly. Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: I will say, I made the general point about free speech.
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  Speaker 6: I also think in this specific instance, like as someone
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  Speaker 6: who's talked publicly about Gaza and Israel and the two-state
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  Speaker 6: solution for a very long time, there is a long-term
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  Speaker 6: sustained effort to police speech on this specific topic, especially
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  Speaker 6: to define criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic or activism that
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  Speaker 6: protests Israel like the BDS movement as anti-Semitic. And so
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  Speaker 6: Trump is building off of... not just those efforts to
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  Speaker 6: punish protesters, but now they're going to use this as
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  Speaker 6: a pretext to punish universities. And just to do a
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: little bit of whataboutism, Naftali Bennett, the former prime minister
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  Speaker 6: of Israel, was giving a speech at Harvard Business School.
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  Speaker 6: The moderator made a point about how, hey, if you
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  Speaker 6: disrupt this, you're going to get kicked out. And he goes,
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  Speaker 6: I think we'll give them a pager, referring to the
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  Speaker 6: operation that blew up thousands of Hezbollah operatives. Just imagine
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  Speaker 6: if a pro-Palestinian, I don't like that speech. I don't
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  Speaker 6: like that speech very much, but it's clearly a joke.
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  Speaker 6: Imagine if a pro-Palestinian protester said, if you protest, we'll
• 9:28
  Speaker 6: come after you with our hang gliders or we'll put
• 9:29
  Speaker 6: a bomb on your bus. Like now, is that kind
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  Speaker 6: of comment going to get you deported? Is that material
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  Speaker 6: support for Hamas? How are we thinking about this?
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Well, imagine if an Israeli citizen was here and has
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: a green card, is a legal permanent resident, and said,
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: you know, I hope Netanyahu finishes the job. I hope
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: they kill everyone in Gaza. And then that person is
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: just deported or detained in the middle of the night,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: sent to Louisiana, and we just don't hear from them.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: We don't know. And now imagine there's over 13 million
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: legal residents in America of all nationalities, from all backgrounds.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: And so if you play this out, then you imagine
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  Speaker 3: ICE just going up to legal residents because now they
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: all know who they are, where they are, right? You
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: go to a legal resident and you say, it depends
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: on what their background is. Oh, you're Ukrainian?
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  Speaker 5: Ukrainian.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, you must be with some, you know, the Nazi
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: group in Ukraine that Elon Musk is always talking about. Or, oh,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: you're Latino, you must be with Trendyagra or whatever, one
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: of the cartels. Trendyagra, yeah. Trendyagra that they've now labeled
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  Speaker 3: terrorist organizations. And now we have legal permanent residents in
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  Speaker 3: this country who've done everything right, who are applying for citizenship,
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  Speaker 3: just like, you know, you're supposed to do. And now
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  Speaker 3: we're just going to detain them?
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  Speaker 7: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: And send them away?
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  Speaker 1: And allow me to put on my Jew hat for
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: a moment. I'm literally, I actually, this is an accident.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I'm actually wearing a Delhi hat. So it is, I'm
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: actually literally wearing a Jew hat today.
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  Speaker 4: I condemn that speech.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Condemn it all you want. But, you know, look,
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  Speaker 1: you know, Tommy's point. Let's say that this person had
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: a bunch of anti-Semitic comments. Protect it. Anti-Semitism is protected speech.
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  Speaker 1: I don't like it. I don't like a lot of
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: what I heard at some of these protests that I
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: do think go from anti-Zionism into pure anti-Semitism on the regular.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: But like to see the Anti-Defamation League put out a
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: comment with this sort of to be sure at the
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: end about everyone deserving due process, but ultimately coming down
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: on the side of what the Trump administration is doing
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  Speaker 1: is so fucking stupid. The idea that like, oh yeah, like,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you know, be a kind of a patron to what
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Trump's doing, be like a a good Jew who supports
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the regime. That'll protect us in the end. The thing
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that protects Jewish people from anti-Semitism is the culture of freedom,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: a legal order that protects freedom, including the freedom of
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: green card holders, not just citizens, but non-citizens in this country.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: That protection is ultimately what makes Jews safe in America.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: The idea that going down a road in which people
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: think it is defensible for the Trump administration to come
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: knocking on somebody's door who has not been accused of
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: a crime to revoke their immigration status for speech and
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: protests you don't like is so, it's obviously morally reprehensible,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: but it is so fucking stupid in the long term.
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  Speaker 1: That makes every Jewish person in America less safe. Think
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: about the road we're going on. It's like, there are
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: posters in the schools. They say, first they came for
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the socialists. What do they think comes after that? And
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: then they were cool? Like, it's so stupid. It's so obvious.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: And like, we like, I just, there's all these people
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: that have pretended to care about history and to learn
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: from history and think about history. And it's happening right
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: in front of our faces And they're too either cynical
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: or naive to realize that they're the people not doing
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: the right thing in the moment.
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: When they're supposed to.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: I would also say that this is why, right? I
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: would guess this is why the Trump administration singled this
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: man out and started with this conflict. Because Donald Trump
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: doesn't actually give a fuck about Gaza or the conflict.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: It's just another thing he's dealing with. But they know
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: that tensions are so high around this that they can
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: get a ridiculous fucking reaction like that from the ADL.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: And then they will limit the protest, the breadth of
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: the protest in this country about what they're doing, and
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: then they can go to the next step, right? That's why.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: They're like, well, this is sort of a lightning rod.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: And the way we know that is the White House,
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: not only did Donald Trump brag about it on Truth Social,
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: the White House, the official White House account tweeted, Shalom Mahmoud,
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: and is bragging about it, which is also, you know,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: to chill people. other speech from anyone who opposes the
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: administration on any issue.
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: I enjoy the irony of this all happening right as
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: we're learning that the White House has been holding direct
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: talks with Hamas about getting hostages out of.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: Gaza, which I support, by the way. I think it's
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: the right thing to do.
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: I think it's ridiculous that we have to go through
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: Qatar or some other carve-out of conversations with a group
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: holding an American citizen.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Maybe the people engaging in the direct talk should be deported.
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: I mean, if Joe Biden did this, Lindsey Graham would
• 13:58
  Speaker 6: have filed articles of impeachment on the spot.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: So what do you think the whole crusade against the
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: law firms is about, huh?
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's just a chilling effect on these law firms.
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: I mean, they want these lawyers to not want to
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: take cases where they sue the Trump administration or oppose
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: them in any way. And then in some instances, it's
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: just an act of vengeance, like going after Jack Smith.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Look, I think the worst case scenario for the Trump
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: administration is this gets shot down pretty quickly while costing...
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Perkins Coie, a bunch of money, having to hire another
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: law firm to represent them. All this is expensive. All
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: this makes life more difficult. He's just punishing his enemies.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: And he doesn't need to go further than this for
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: it to have been effective. And the further it goes,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: the more fun he's having.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: But I think that the point that Tommy just raised
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: is like it's going beyond. The intent is to go
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: beyond punishing his enemies, because if other firms that are
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: not his enemies end up taking a case that is
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: suing the government, then Trump can go after them. Or
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: the other thing that can happen is, so there's a
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: big law firm, right? And they take a case suing
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: the government. And the big law firm also has other
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: clients that are big corporate clients that have business before
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: the government. And now they're like, do I really want
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: to take that case that's suing the government because the
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Trump administration might come after us? Or I might lose
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: this corporate client because now our firm is lightning round
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: as well. That's what a lot of these lawyers are,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: at least that's what they were telling the Wall Street Journal.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: But they were saying it quietly because now they're all afraid.
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: To speak up.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I think they got to see how it plays out, right?
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Because Perkins Coie hired Williams & Connolly, which is a
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: bipartisan firm that has some Trump people in it. And
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: some of this is like, does our law firm have
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: a guy that can call a guy to say, leave
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: us alone? You know what I mean? There's like, sort
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: of like, There's a relationship thing. There's a relationship thing here.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: So some of this, I think it's like, it is, yeah,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I think we just have to see how it plays out.
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: There were reports early on that the Trump people were
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: telling big firms, do not hire people out of the
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: Biden DOJ, especially the Jack Smith team. So this is
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: sort of part of a longer process of just trying
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: to like keep really good lawyers from opposing them in
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: any way.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: And again, we just talked about people being detained. So
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: you get, you know, the Trump administration comes after you
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: for whatever, a defamation case of this or that. They're
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: trying to, whatever they do. And you try to find
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: a good lawyer. And now some of these big firms
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: are like, do I want to take this case on?
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, that's the effect of this.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: And good for Williams and Connolly for jumping in to
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: defend Perkins Coie because a lot of these law firms
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: should like band together and make a public statement. And
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: there had been some, the journal reported that there had
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: been some attempt to do that and they haven't wanted
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: to do that yet because they were a little nervous.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't believe these lawyers are looking out for
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: their own interests against these other law firms that they
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: compete with on a daily basis on behalf of the
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: sleaziest corporations on planet Earth.
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: I do worry about this politically. I mean, on its face,
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: it seems like such a brazen First Amendment violation. But
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: Historically speaking, this country has not always been sympathetic to protesters.
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: I always think about how after Kent State, 58% of
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: the country blamed the students, 11% of the country blamed
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: the National Guard troops who shot them. The sentiment was
• 16:54
  Speaker 6: they got what they deserve. So I do worry that,
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: I don't know, maybe the Trump people think that you know,
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: going after a bunch of Gaza protesters will be good
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: politics for them and that they might know something we don't.
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: It makes me very nervous.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Me too. And I, and I do think whether it's
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: the law firms, whether it's what they're doing to some
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: of these Gaza protesters, like everyone just has to be
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: aware that this is going on and that the more
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: people who speak up and the more people who stand
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: in solidarity with the people who are targeted, whether you
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: disagree with them or not, whether you're like them or not,
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: whether you think that you, like, The harder it's going
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: to be for the Trump administration to pull this off.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: They win if they start doing this and picking out
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: people up there. And then everyone else is like, well,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to say anything. There was this whole
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: New York Times story over the weekend, too, about like
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: how all these people who spoke out in the first
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: term against Trump are quiet now. And a lot of
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: them went on background. A lot of people wouldn't say anything. Yeah,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: I like it's the wrong way to handle this.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also just like take a step back. Why
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: do they think it's such good politics to chill free
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: speech and go against protests? Like, why do they think
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: it's such good politics to go against foreign aid? Why
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: do they think it's such a good politics to pull
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: these just like completely like these moves? They're just like
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: completely anathema to what America is supposed to represent. It's
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: because they don't believe that there's enough people that are
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: going to make the argument successfully to the country and
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: that people will go with their kind of base gut
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: animal instincts on issue after issue. They're counting on that.
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: I think they also think that they can make it
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: about the specifics of the case or what someone said
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: or did versus the principal.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: And we have to focus on the principal. Yes, exactly.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix. Tell
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• 20:00
  Speaker 3: During that Maria Bartiromo interview Trump also got lots of
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: questions on the economy especially about his on again off
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: again trade war let's listen.
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: Are you expecting a recession this year I hate to
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: predict things like that. There is a period of transition
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: because what we're doing is very big. We're bringing wealth
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: back to America. That's a big thing. And there are
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: always periods of it takes a little time It takes
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: a little time.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: You said, look, we're going to have a disruption, but
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: we're okay with that.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: Is that what you meant?
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: The stock market going down was the disruption?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: What other disruption were you alluding to?
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: Look, what I have to do is build a strong country.
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: You can't really watch the stock market. If you look
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: at China, they have a hundred year perspective. We have
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: a quarter.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: We go by quarters. That's true.
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: And you can't go by that. You have to do
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: what's right.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Someone's out of the prediction business. So on Friday's show,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: we talked about how Trump back down for now on
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: most of the tariffs against Canada and Mexico, though he's
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: apparently sticking with tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum that
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: are set to go into effect on Wednesday. China's retaliatory
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: tariffs on American agricultural products have now gone into effect.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: The Canadians are also hitting us with some retaliatory tariffs,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: and their new prime minister, Mark Carney, said in a
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: speech Sunday that America wants to, quote, destroy our way
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: of life. And Reaching for a hockey metaphor, said, quote,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: We didn't ask for this fight, but Canadians are always
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: ready when someone else drops the gloves.
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: He found it.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: He found it.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: He wasn't reaching. He got that one.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: What's icing?
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: When you shoot it from your zone all the way
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: into the other zone without someone touching it after two
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: lines or something like that.
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: It's a very boring penalty.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: The market seemed less enthused by this trade war and
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: continued a three-week sell-off on Monday. Amid fears of the
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: recession that Trump has refused to rule out. What do
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: you think, guys? So Trump and his team have now
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: called this a transition, an adjustment, a disturbance. And Scott
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: Besson called.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: It a detox.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: A detox was the one I really like.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: It's also funny, by the way.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I just love, you know, you just we need like
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: a few months of just sort of clean economic recovery.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: recession to kind of just get a lot of these
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: growth toxins out of our body.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Dry 2025. Yeah. It doesn't seem great.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Correction.
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: Icing is when you shoot it from your side of
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: the center line all the way past the opposing team's
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: goal line.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Icing and offsides have never made sense to me, and
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I can't. I know it's a different sport. You had
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: to get them the puck before they crossed. Anyway, my
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: buddy Dan Nathan is a very smart finance guy. He
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: made this point to me. In 2017, Trump did his
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: tax cut first. So that juices the market. It juices
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the economy. Then he started going with the tariffs. Now
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: they've got it all back assward. He started the trade war.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: He's tanking the markets, weakening the economies, weakening his political standing.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: And then he's going to try to ram through this
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: massive tax cut. that no one actually thinks.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: Will be paid for, it feels like a mistake.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: I thought Trump was supposed to be especially sensitive to
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: stock market fluctuations.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, he is.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Like, what do we think happened here?
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I'm a little, honestly, like, my, like, late night worry
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: is that, like, he's so now heavy on fucking cryptocurrency that, like,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the more unstable the American economy gets, the more he's
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: sort of hedged against it.
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: But that's not what's happening.
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: Like, Bitcoin is, like, basically correlated with the NASDAQ in
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: the market.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: Like, it's tanking right now.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm just trying to explain why he seems to
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: be a little less worried about the markets these days.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: I think he's full of shit. I think he's still
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: just worried about it.
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: He's just like very mad that his in-house interviewer is
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: not asking him the right questions.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: I think it's very funny that on the same day
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: that he does the Bart Romo interview, Howard Lutnick's on
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: the Sunday shows, and said, this country would absolutely not
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: have a recession. Absolutely not.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the only thing you can say. If you
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: say there could be one, you're sort of inciting one.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: One person close to the administration talked to Politico for
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: quite a while about all this, and they said he
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: has to acknowledge there's going to be some pain. He
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: can't say everything's perfect. If he said everything's perfect, people
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: would think he lost his mind.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: The other part of this, too, is I talked about
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: this with Bernie just a little bit, but when the
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Bush people did their tax cuts, they were smart enough
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: to understand that politically, you finance it with deficits, and
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: then you use those deficits to later claim you need
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to cut spending. It was called starving the beast. They
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: understood that going out there and saying, we're going to
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: cut taxes for the richest people in America, but in
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a deficit-neutral way, which means cutting a bunch of services,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: also just makes your job that much harder. So they're
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: not even... yeah, they're not like, like they're not, they're
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: not politically or like economically doing the things that you
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: think they would do if their goal was ultimately to
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: like get the economy hot so that they can kind
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: of have better politics to pull all the other shenanigans
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: they're trying to pull.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Hot ass economy.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Hot ass economy. It's also possible that they don't know
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: what the fuck they're doing because it's not just the
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: tariffs themselves that is causing the markets and businesses to
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: start freaking out a little bit. It's the uncertainty around
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: the tariffs. Like he, He threatens tariffs.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: On again, off again.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: He imposes tariffs.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: And then he takes them back. Clearly, like, he backed
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: away from them on Friday, Thursday, whenever it was, because he,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: you know, saw the reaction and was like, all right,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I'm going to back off. But it didn't really calm
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: things because everyone's like, well, who the fuck knows what's
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: going to happen next?
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: Can't Sam and Diane the economy?
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: Ross and Rachel.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: Sam and Diane.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Oh, man.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Is our semiconductors America's lobster?
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing is, Lovett and I would have gone
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: with Ross and Rachel because we're millennials.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: I went with both.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: But he's Gen X.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: He's Gen X. Because it's fun. He's Gen X.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: He and Dan will be talking about Sam and Diane.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: He still thinks of Frasier as a spinoff.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: Catching strays. Poor Dan's getting a shout out here.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Dan's like a real Gen X.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Look, here's the thing. This show is about a cross-generational
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: conversation between... Tommy and Dan as like kind of our
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: elders who we grew up like, by the way, what's
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: crazy is like we grew up like learning from them.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And now we sit at this table with them.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: It's wild.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: It's really cool.
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: A six foot guy talks with his 5'4 buddy and
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: his 5'10 friend.
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: Wow. Wow.
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: Also, I just want to point out that Trump has
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: single handedly resuscitated the Liberal Party in Canada.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to move us on.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: And we're reigniting nationalism all through North America. Claudia Sheinbaum
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: down in Mexico has an 85% approval rating.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: Can you tell us what's with this new guy? I
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: know this is in Card Save the World.
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: Mark Carney, former Bank of Canada head. He kind of
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: came out of nowhere. He wasn't in politics.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Is he the hero we've been looking for?
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know. He could just be another neolib.
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: But Trudeau was head of the party for 11 years.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: He was prime minister for nine years. He stepped down
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: when was that? January.
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: So they do an intra-party process. 150,000 people decide the
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: next head of the party. So then you become the
• 26:39
  Speaker 6: de facto prime minister. And so the election is supposed
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: to be in October, right? But everyone figured they would
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: call a snap election because the conservatives, this guy Pierre Polyev,
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: who's sort of like the Trump of Canada, was.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Up 20 points.
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: And then fucking Trump put in place all these tariffs
• 26:54
  Speaker 6: and they're booing the national anthem and hockey games. And
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: now the Liberal Party is back and it's like not
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: really clear how it's all going to shake out.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Imagine if... If Biden could have called a snap election
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: during Brat Summer in Kamala, we had.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: A couple of those.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: The other part just.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Depends on the poll. There was like one.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: Week where they were ahead.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Or was it just the vibes?
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, an election at our convention.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: The other part of this, too, is it's like even
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: like take Trump like on his own terms. Like, OK,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: somebody out there was like thinking about where they're going
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: to put a factory to make some kind of a widget.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, originally I was going to
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: embark on a 10-year project to build a factory abroad.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: But now that there were tariffs on Canada for 36 hours,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to put it in Ohio. Makes
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: no fucking sense.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: No one can plan anything. The funding cuts, right? Like
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of businesses that have federal contracts. They
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: get funding from the government, right? And so you have that.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: You have the tariffs. No one can plan anything. Of
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: course there's uncertainty.
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: One of his recent demands was he was telling leaders
• 27:51
  Speaker 6: in Mexico and Canada that they have to send factories
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: to the U.S. Like what political leader can make that
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: choice to shut down a bunch of Jobs.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: In your own country?
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Trump also retruthed a piece by Charlie Kirk over the
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: weekend titled, Shut Up About Egg Prices. So that's where
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: we are now.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Shut up about egg prices.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: That was the kind of, in the liberal commentary, that
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: was a bit of an argument made on the left
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: for quite some months before the election. Shut the fuck
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: up about the egg prices and we'll be all right.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Look how well that, look where that got us.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: And now here we are, debating the finer parts of
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: immigration status.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: And then we were like, if Joe Biden did that,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: we're like, yeah, no, the problem is we're- Shut up
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: about egg prices.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Now the yolk's on us.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: You know what? I'm just going to leave it there.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: That's it.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: That's a perfect segue.
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: Beautiful button on that one.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Trump's other big economic policy, destroying the federal government, also
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: hitting some speed bumps. We talked about Trump reigning in
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: Elon on Friday's show, but that was before we got
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: all the juicy details about the cabinet meeting where it
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: all went down. Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan report that
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Elon accused Marco Rubio of not firing enough people at
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: the State Department and insinuated he's good on TV, but
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: not much else. Marco got mad. Said Elon was lying
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: and then went back and forth until Trump had to
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: jump in and defend Marco. Elon also fought with real
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: world road rule star turned transportation secretary Sean Duffy.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Who, by the way, is the hero in this piece.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, the hero who accused Doge of trying to fire
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: air traffic controllers. And then Elon's like, that's a lie.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: We did not try to give me the names. And
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: he's like, I can't give you the names because I
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: prevented you from firing them.
• 29:28
  Speaker 8: Idiot.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: He didn't say it, but he should have.
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: Should have.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: This all ended with Trump announcing that cabinet secretaries, not Elon,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: decide who gets hired and fired at their agencies. And
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: then they all tried to make up and pretend they're
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: best pals on social media. Now, I initially thought Elon
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: would be asked about all this when he sat down
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: for a Fox business interview with Larry Kudlow on Monday.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: My original segue into this was, and here's what he
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: said when asked about it today. But there is no question.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: It was just a. 15 minute tongue bath from Larry Kudlow.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I don't like the term tongue bath. It was a
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: tongue bath, but it's an uncomfortable phrase.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: That's why we should feel uncomfortable.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I don't like it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Try watching the interview.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: But the cat gives a kitten.
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Anyway, here's how it sounded.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: I mean, frankly, I can't believe I'm here doing this.
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: It's kind of bizarre.
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: You know how to read an income statement and you
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: know how to read a balance sheet.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: You've had some business experience. I'm kidding, but you know
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: about this stuff. I mean, how are you running your
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: other businesses? With great difficulty.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: Producers are yelling at me to get out. I don't
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: want to end this interview because it's too much fun.
• 30:35
  Speaker 6: That question, how are you running your businesses on a
• 30:37
  Speaker 6: day when the Tesla stock is down 15% in Twitter
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: at like a multi-hour outage is actually very funny.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: Elon did seem a little down during the interview. He
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: did not seem like this.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's on the wrong curve of whatever's going on
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: inside of that fucking body.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: It's a long way from the chainsaw and the legalized
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: comedy and all that kind of stuff. He was very subdued.
• 30:55
  Speaker 8: What happened to the guy that had become meme? You're
• 30:59
  Speaker 8: not looking very become meme, Elon. Well, he did try
• 31:02
  Speaker 8: a little bit of meme-ification before. At the beginning, because
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: little intranet jokes. Because he was like, and you know,
• 31:09
  Speaker 8: your businesses have been targeted. There were shots fired at
• 31:13
  Speaker 8: Tesla dealerships. And all of a sudden, Elon just interrupts
• 31:15
  Speaker 8: and he goes, shots fired.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: But not that.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Like, get it?
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Like on the internet? Shots fired?
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I missed that because Pundit took an Austin sandwich off
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: of his desk. That's why I missed the first few seconds.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: How fun was that New York Times story? We deserve
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: every word of that.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: First of all, I love that story. Everybody should take
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: a moment and go- Good for Maggie, good for Jonathan.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Good for Maggie, good for Jonathan. So there's just one
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: point I wanted to make about the story, which was excellent.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: It was written in a really strange way because there's
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: lots of what seem like direct quotes from the piece,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: but they're not in quotes. It's not written like a
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: New York Times story. It's written like a book. And
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: it made me think two things. One, could there be?
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Could there be? And two, are these people already recording
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: each other?
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: I hope so.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: And if I was somebody in that room- Reading that story,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I would be very paranoid about how that story was
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: written basically as if somebody was in the room transcribing
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: it without any reference to a recording. There's no like
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: some sources say Duffy said this and some sources must
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: have said that. It is a narrative as if they were.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: In the room.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: And I just love that for them and for us.
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: And so it was a cabinet meeting, but then there's
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: a whole bunch of people who sit in this sort
• 32:22
  Speaker 6: of outer ring around the cabinet table. So I don't
• 32:24
  Speaker 6: know if that's staff from the agency. Like, does the
• 32:26
  Speaker 6: secretary of defense get one staffer or is it all.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: White House staff?
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: No, it's White House staff.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: It's all White House staff.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: They leak.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: It's usually like senior staff and then the staff around
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: the table.
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: I think I just wanted to briefly.
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: Remark upon how Marco Rubio continuing to be like the saddest,
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: smallest man in government.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Because he desperately wanted to be president.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: It's not sure, not clear why. He doesn't have like
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: big ideas he's trying to put forward, but he wanted
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: to be president.
• 32:52
  Speaker 6: Now he has like the big time cabinet job, right?
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: It's like top three, state, treasury, defense. And yet he's
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: still getting kicked around by Elon Musk and then even
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: his own team. Remember a couple of months ago, we
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: learned that his spokeswoman had talked shit about him on
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: Twitter and he had to hire her anyway. Then there
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: was a story over the weekend. CNN reported that the
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: undersecretary for public diplomacy deleted a bunch of tweets where
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: he called Marco Rubio a low IQ individual and accused
• 33:17
  Speaker 6: him of going to gay phone parties.
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: You guys see this?
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: I sure did.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: This guy still works at the State Department.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: There was a moment. People just need to understand there
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: was a there was this brief frenzy on the Internet
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: that Marco Rubio had attended gay.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Sex parties, which is just not true. Phone parties, phone parties. Well,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: there's a there's a picture of him. with foam around
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: him and some men. Now, apparently that was just a
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: regular foam party. They just tried to insinuate it. Foam
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: parties are disgusting.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they are.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Disgusting.
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: That foam is so dirty.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: No one needs to be at a foam party.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Look, this is an episode about freedom and not judging,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: not yucking other people's yum. Whether it be a foam
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: party or an anti-Israel protest. Regardless, whether or not he
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: was at a foam party, then he gets attacked in
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: this meeting in front of the entire cabinet by Elon
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: and Accused of not doing anything, and then Monday morning
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: he has to send out the tweets like, I'm a
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: good boy, and I did what I'm told, and I
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: canceled 83% of the programs at USAID, but the remaining
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: 18% get transferred to state, which that math does not
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: add up.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: I think that our Secretary of State is the result
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: of an elaborate prank that the whole Trump maga world
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: has been playing on him. Like, we're going to make
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: him Secretary of State, we're going to make him think
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: he's got a big job now, and then we're going
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: to put all the people who hate him as his staff...
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: And then we're going to sick Elon Musk on him.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: We're going to make him prom king and he's going
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: to walk out on that stage. Pig's blood.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: I feel like we are not even at the beginning
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: of the humiliation of Marco Rubio.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: You know, some people made this point. Somebody on social
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: media was making this point. I'm sorry to whoever it
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: was that both J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio have like
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: fundamentally changed their worldview to fit with Donald Trump. But J.D.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Vance does it in such a convincing way. And Mark
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Rubio just can't. And he can't because you can just
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: see it in his eyes. The person in there that
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: doesn't agree, he can't kill that part of himself. And
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that speaks well of him or
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: poorly of him, but I'm loving every second of it.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: My view on this is that, and I've changed my
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: view over time, I think J.D. Vance believes it. I
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: think J.D. Vance is entirely bought in and he's got
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: all the authoritarian tendencies. He's loves Orban and Hungary and
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: all the rest of it. Like he is, he's, he's
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: part of the project.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I do think that there, yeah. With Vance, like there's
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: this sort of great salesman quality that he has. Like he,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: he always has this tone in, in interviews. Like I
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: don't understand how anyone could be so stupid as not
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: to understand why we are right. And he was doing
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: it about why the mineral deal in Ukraine weighed more.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: So he got in trouble for it. He got in trouble.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Of course it's crazy. We had trouble for saying for
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: insulting French and British troops. But the point he was making,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: he was making with such a kind of strident, like, arrogance.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: You can tell he used to be an establishment cuck
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: because he's very scoldy.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah, no, the need for rare earth minerals has prevented
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: conflicts in the Congo for decades now. There's never been
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: a war in the Congo because of rare earths that
• 36:07
  Speaker 6: we mine there. Yeah, but I always just, I think
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: he's a salesman at heart. selling, and I think he,
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: like any great salesman, he sells himself first, and so
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: I do think he starts to really adapt these views.
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: There's this clip of Rubio from 2016 going around. We
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: should just insert it right here.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 36:23
  Speaker 7: He's running for president, so no matter what, he won't
• 36:25
  Speaker 7: be a dictator unless our republic completely crumbles, which I
• 36:27
  Speaker 7: don't anticipate it will. And if you listen to the
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: way he describes himself and what he's going to do,
• 36:32
  Speaker 7: he's going to single-handedly do this and do that without
• 36:35
  Speaker 7: regard for whether it's legal or not. No matter what
• 36:37
  Speaker 7: happens in this election, for years to come, There are
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: many people on the right, in the media, and voters
• 36:43
  Speaker 7: at large that are going to be having to explain
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: and justify how they fell into this trap of supporting
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: Donald Trump, because this is not going to end well
• 36:50
  Speaker 7: one way or the other.
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: How great was that, everyone?
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: Also, I don't know that people realize Tesla's stock is
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: down 50%, 5-0% in the last three months. And it's
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: because Elon's like, he's a master at manipulating the stock market.
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: It is all smoke and mirrors. It is not revenue.
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: It's him trying to convince investors that he's going to
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: sell the next fleet of robo-taxis and autonomous robots and stuff.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: And I'll just say this, that I don't let Cybertrucks in.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I just don't let them in.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: Into where?
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: Into your lane.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: Into my lane. I'm not kind to the Cybertrucks on
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the road. I'm not, I don't break any rules.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: You used to own one.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I had a Tesla.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: It's a Cybertruck, yeah.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, of course I did, of course, also have a Cybertruck.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: Until Tommy and I, you know, put graffiti on it.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Well, it couldn't fit in our compact spaces.
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: So I had to get rid of my Cybertruck.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: You guys ought to say that John, Tommy, and I,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: we park in these three tiny fucking spaces, and every morning,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: someone comes in and is like, hey, hey, too close.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Too fucking close. And you're like, I thought I parked, no,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: you gotta park a little bit further, because I couldn't get.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: Out of the fucking car.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: Tommy leveled an accusation once, and I actually, when I
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: went out to get coffee, I took a picture just
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: to prove that I had actually parked far, far away
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: from the line.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: Are you digging in and doing a well actually?
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I just want to say that we've been together longer
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: than the Beatles.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Maybe one serious discussion in this section? Yeah, for sure.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: So Jeff Stein and Dan Diamond had a good piece
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: in the Washington Post. Not as gossipy as Maggie and Jonathan's,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: but a good piece. Good report.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: It was good.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: They made the case that Trump actually does appear to
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: be susceptible to political pressure on things like tariffs and
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: doge cuts. Walked back the tariffs now a couple times.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: He has now reined in Elon a little bit. What
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: do you guys think? Do you think that this is
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: him feeling some political pressure? Do you think it's something else?
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: No, I think he does. I think he actually does.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I think he's hearing it. I don't think he bases
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: political pressure in that he cares about blowback in the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: mainstream press. I think he hears it from the congressional Republicans.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: And I think behind closed doors, there are more honest
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: conversations with Mike Johnson, with John Thune about what they're
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: hearing and where it's like, hey, man, they're like kind
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: of the kind of thing that's like, hey, man, they're
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: with you, but you got to give them this or
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: you got to you got to slow down on this
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: or I'm getting a lot of shit about this, whatever
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: it may be, because I think actually where the political
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: pressure is right now really does boil down to whatever happens, yes,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: with the CR that's coming, but ultimately with reconciliation and
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: whether or not they can get a all Republican bill
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: through the House. And if the economy is going down,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: if there's a bunch of blowback around Medicaid cuts, all
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: of a sudden- Planes are going down. Planes are continued
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: to touch, which they're.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: Never supposed to do. They're bumping. Then all of.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: A sudden, they're not able to count to a majority
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: in the House, and his whole agenda is in jeopardy.
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, we're tariffing Canada, one of our closest allies,
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: over a completely made-up fentanyl trafficking problem. Someone at the
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: White House has to just be like, what are we
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: doing here? Because as you pointed out, I mean, he
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: does need the political capital to get these things, this
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: tax cut through Congress.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: And it just doesn't look good right now.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: He also, he likes being liked. That's like his big,
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: he's important. And he is, I think, more self-aware than
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: he lets on. And he knows, right, the stock market's
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: been terrible, right? Like he's not, he watches the TV.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: And so he knows what's going on. And I think
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: he does not want to be hated.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:11
  Speaker 6: The deal is like, we'll give you money. You give
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: us a tax cut for all his donors. They can't
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: be happier now.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Okay. We're going to take a quick break, but two
• 40:17
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• 40:35
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• 40:42
  Speaker 3: ruled a suicide, Shadow Kingdom host Niccolo Mainoni got a
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  Speaker 6: professional photographer in your life who's always taking new pics.
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: It's a great way to display them.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, real Annie Leibovitz.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Little Billy Leibovitz. The best part is it comes
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: with unlimited storage. All you need is a free Aura
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: app and a Wi-Fi connection. You can upload as many
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: photos and videos as you want year-round.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Even a Mapplethorpe.
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: Right now, you can save on a perfect gift that
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: keeps on giving by visiting AuraFrames.com. For a limited time,
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: listeners can get $ 20 off their best-selling Carver mat frame
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: with code CROOKED. That's A-U-R-A, frames.com, promo code CROOKED. Don't
• 43:19
  Speaker 6: forget to mention that Pod Save America sent you to
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: show your support for the show. Terms and conditions apply.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about what Americans really care about,
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: whether the looming government shutdown can be averted. On Saturday,
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Speaker Mike Johnson put out the text of the continuing
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: resolution he's going to bring to a vote tomorrow. Tuesday night,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: it turns out it's not exactly a clean continuing resolution
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: as promised. It increases spending on things like defense and
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: border enforcement while cutting spending by greater amounts in other areas,
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: including zeroing out a lot of health care programs in states.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: Trump is whipping support for this one. He wrote on
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Truth Social, all Republicans should vote in parentheses, please exclamation point.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: Next week. So far, we've only got one Republican hard
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: no from Thomas Massey. If that holds, this thing will
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: pass the House. Big if. Then it will go to
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: the Senate, where the funding bill can't pass without support
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: from at least seven Democratic senators and probably eight since
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Rand Paul seems like a no. Democratic leaders say this
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: is a power grab by the White House and a, quote,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: slush fund for Trump and Musk. What do you think
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: they mean by that?
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Well, there's no control. Donald Trump is treating every dollar
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Congress has ever appropriated as money. He can decide whether
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: to spend or not. Republicans have acted as though putting
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: into the law controls on what Trump does to protect
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Congress's authority under the Constitution is like so unacceptable. So yeah,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, if Donald Trump believes he can just cut
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: or spend however he sees fit, then we're no longer
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: appropriating money for the administrative branch. We're appropriating money for
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump to spend.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: So our pal Alyssa Slotkin, the fairly moderate new Democratic
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: senator from Michigan, said on Sunday that she's withholding her
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: vote to fund the government until Congress gets, quote, assurances.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: the administration will actually follow the law and spending the money,
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: so it's not a slush fund. That seems to me
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: like Senate Democrats might actually be willing to vote down
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: this funding bill, though then they asked Mark Kelly, and
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: he was sort of saying what Slotkin said, but then
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: he was like, but shutdowns are bad. We don't like shutdowns,
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: and the CR isn't great, but shutdowns are bad too. Tommy,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: what do you think?
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: Is this.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: Can you see a possible compromise here? Is this a
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: good idea to go forward and withhold votes? Bad idea?
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: I mean, I think Love's point is the important one.
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: Like Congress's position sort of has to be if you
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: want to cut spending, we will write a bill.
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: Otherwise, we shouldn't exist anymore. Right.
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: So I don't like I also think I think Democrats
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: should approach this with some confidence because Trump does not
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: want a shutdown right now. The economy is very shaky.
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: People are wondering what he's doing. like the people, the
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: voters know Republicans control everything. I don't like shutdown politics
• 45:59
  Speaker 6: are complicated. It's especially complicated when you have Elon Musk
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: controlling the most powerful piece of social media with X
• 46:07
  Speaker 6: and the ability to blame Democrats. So it'll get rocky,
• 46:10
  Speaker 6: but I don't know, like I would demand something at
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: the very least. And I think saying, yeah, you have
• 46:15
  Speaker 6: to follow the law and actually appropriate money where we
• 46:19
  Speaker 6: say is pretty important.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I won't, I feel like I've talked about
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: this on too many episodes, but you know, Dan has
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: made the point, like, know what you're asking for. Ask
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: for something. If you're going to go through this and like,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: make it specific, make it clear, make it under, you know,
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: and look, will they, if you get it, are they
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: going to abide by it? Who the fuck knows? But
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: if we're, if we're going by what they're going to
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: abide or not abide by, then we might as well
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: just give up.
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: You're right.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: Then there's, then there's no Congress.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: If we're, if we're afraid of the politics of what
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: happens when Donald Trump doesn't follow the law, we've lost already.
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: We're fair.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: If we're afraid of the politics, if Donald Trump does
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: follow the law, well, that's ordinary politics. We've done a
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: million times. And then if they need our votes to
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: pass something, then you should get something for your votes.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Right.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Like if they're just going to do what they would
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: have done if they had a 60 seat majority. Well,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense.
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: Don't be scared about the midterms now.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: For God's sake.
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: No, that I would not.
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: Do something.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: So, of course, government funding isn't the only thing Democrats
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: are arguing about. Excellent Wall Street Journal headline here. Democrats
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: are busy fighting over what to fight over on their list,
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: whether it was good or bad to interrupt Trump in
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: his joint address. and whether we should be blowing up
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: members' phones in town halls to get them to fight
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: the doge cuts. Tim Walz was also out there this
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: weekend saying that the Harris campaign played it too safe
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: during the campaign and should have done more town halls
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: where they got tough questions. For good measure, we also
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: had a bunch of stories over the weekend about Democrats
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: starting to swear more, talk more about sports, and podcast more,
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: which of course we love.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: How about football? You like?
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: How are you guys feeling about the party's very public...
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Therapy session slash nervous breakdown.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: Par for the course, huh?
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of like, hey, everybody, just stop.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Remember that from Forgetting Sarah Marshall? Do less.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: Don't burden yourself.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: I guess I'd like a little bit more, a little
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: less discussion of the strategy types that are available to
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: us and a little bit more of, If you think
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: this is what we should do, why don't you do that?
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: And if you think there's something else we should do,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: you do that. And then we'll just take a look
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: at it. You know, let's just throw some spaghetti against
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: the wall, you know?
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: And if that spaghetti looks like a years old trend
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: on TikTok, the choose your fighter thing.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I didn't love that. I didn't love that. But it's like,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think Democrats have paid too great a price
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: for Al Green going meh. And like, I don't, you know,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: but I, but I, and like, I don't think the
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: color coordination was particularly effective.
• 48:40
  Speaker 6: Yeah, look, most protests aren't popular in the moment, so
• 48:43
  Speaker 6: you can disagree with Al Green's tactic. But at least
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: he had a focus message that was about Medicaid cuts.
• 48:47
  Speaker 6: I like that better than like holding a silly like
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: kind of cutie sign. I think that was always destined
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: to look silly. I think if you look at the Senate,
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: Cory Booker, Brian Schatz, Chris Murphy, there's a lot of
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: people just like putting shots on goal, making a lot
• 49:01
  Speaker 6: of content, putting stuff on TikTok, putting up videos. I
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: think that's the right way to go. Tim Walz is right.
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: They did play it too safe. I mean, I remember
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: when he was named as vice president, everyone was really
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: excited to hear him do a bunch of interviews.
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: And then he was bottled up for half the campaign.
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: And that was obviously a mistake.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the the, the being afraid of taking on some
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: of the more controversial like policy issues that the Trump
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: campaign was making big under the assumption that under the
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: hope that you ignore that you push that down, you
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: campaign in your most effective on your most effective messages.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: That was like a smarter, safer thing to do. Like
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: it turns out that didn't work. Was that the wrong
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: decision at the time? I don't know. But like right now,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: like there's a, I feel like in that piece, there's
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of abstraction. Sometimes I don't know what is fighting,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: voting against the CR, is fighting voting for it, but
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: being angry. Sometimes very confused, but focusing on reconciliation. I
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: don't often know how to apply the abstraction, but one
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: of the core points made in the piece is there
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: are some more moderates that are basically saying our constituents
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: that we need, our moderate constituents need to think of
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: us as even killed fighters who will work with Trump
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: sometimes and oppose him where he's wrong. While there's the, well,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: I'm just like trying to make the most generous version
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: of it. And then, but the left says Trump is
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: threatening the Republic. We need to fight these people at
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: every turn. And by the way, that will bring out
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: the people we need when they see us becoming champions
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: for them and the working class. And that means, that
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: means giving no quarter and, and trying to stop every
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: one of these doge cuts, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: And like, I think probably that may make sense in
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Tom Swasey's district, but not make sense for others and
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: not make sense for the party as a whole. I
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: I think there's been, it's odd to say this as
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: three founders of a media company here. There's been a
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: bit too much focus on like what mediums and formats
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: to communicate and get the message out. And like, I
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: get it. You know, it's a, it's a crazy media
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: environment right now. And you can't do just television anymore
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: and put out a press release.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: We've talked about that a million times, but like, there
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: should be a little more focus on just be yourself,
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: you know, do what's comfortable to you in your own skin.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: And then the fact that you have to do it
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: on a new medium, right? Like you have to be
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: on TikTok or you have to do a podcast, like
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: that shouldn't change your style, your message, who you are. Like,
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: I feel like there's a lot of trying to fit
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: themselves in like boxes that they don't really belong in
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: just because either they're younger staff or Or consultants or
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: anyone else is telling them like, this is what's cool.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: This is what you got to do. Like you just,
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: just be yourself.
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: Box is a vertical video.
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: You don't have to do like a trending meme that
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: that's silly. Just talk.
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: But I do think it's good to get out there.
• 51:39
  Speaker 6: I mean, apparently, apparently house members were mad. They were
• 51:41
  Speaker 6: told not to applaud at the state of the union.
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: And if that's the case, that was bad advice. Cause
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: like every president ever who delivers the state of the
• 51:49
  Speaker 6: union creates a trap for you. If you do that by,
• 51:52
  Speaker 6: you know, introducing some really emotional story where clearly everyone
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: should be applauding. And if you're sitting on your hands,
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: You look bad.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: But I don't it doesn't matter.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Like that. I think this is where like we're like,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: do we applaud or not applaud? Like, why is that
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: even a silly thing?
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: The media focuses. No, I know.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: But what I'm getting there's like it's like all of
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: this feels like it's trying to make up for some
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: deeper problem, which is about like, what do we stand for?
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Why don't people believe us? How do we like there's
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: a kind of bigger problem inside of like democratic politics
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: that we all on some level know that. And we're
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: sort of grappling with it. In the short term, no
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: one's going to solve it. It's going to take a
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: lot of time.
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: Well, again, elections will come and you need to strategize
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: around an election and figure out what the best measures are.
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: For at least this year, just do your politics like
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: you're not going to look at the reaction or you're
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: not going to read advice. You're just doing it based
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: on what you think and believe and how you feel
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: about things. Just try it for a little bit.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. It'll work for some people, and some people
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: it won't work for, and then, you know.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Get another job.
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: Politics like no one is watching.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dance like no one's watching.
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: Politics like no one is watching.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, post like you've never been heard.
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: In this case, no one is. Yeah, no one is.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing, for most people, nobody is. You go
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: to that.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: If a podcast dropped on a feed and no one
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: heard it, did.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: It really make it? Did those three guys say anything?
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Did those three white guys say anything?
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: My answer is yes.
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: That was a draft version of the title.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: But, uh, like, you know, I saw the difference between
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: like there, there was like this whole, I like, I
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: posted a picture of the Bernie rally and said like,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: I thought this was inspiring because it genuinely was.
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: I saw you quote tweeted and I was like, Oh,
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: he must be shadow boxing his mentions on this one.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: You bet I was. You bet. Not shadow boxing, boxing. Uh, but, uh,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: There's every reply under the book in The Sun to
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: explain why it wasn't actually inspiring and actually quite bad.
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: What?
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just sort of like, why is Bernie alone? Why
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: aren't other Democrats doing this? Bernie's too old. Why isn't
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: he with somebody else?
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: This isn't... Sometimes I feel like we're running a political
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: campaign with 5,000 people who all have an equal say
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: in the campaign all the time, and they're all strategists.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: But the thing about it... Well, online. But the thing
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: about it is there was none of that feeling... In
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: the actual event. Of course not, because it's real life.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: And in real life, what was there at that event?
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: It was very diverse age, all demographics. And there are
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: people there that have been Bernie fans forever. There are
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: people there that had never been to a political rally before.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: They were all very excited to be there. They weren't
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: checking to find out. how long they'd been a Bernie backer,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: if any Pete Buttigieg supporters had managed to sneak in, right?
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Like none of that exists in the real world, right?
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: There's nobody like, oh, you're like Bernie.
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: Do I hear high hopes in the background?
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: You're like Bernie now, but you were part of the
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: DNC coup in Iowa in 2016.
• 54:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's like people who are early into a band
• 54:57
  Speaker 6: who scold you if you come to it later.
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: It's like, that's not.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Fun for anybody. The two things can't be, the two
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: positions can't be, why isn't the Democratic Party embracing Bernie's message? And, oh, sure,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: you like Bernie now. Where were you before? It's like, well,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: those two things are in opposition.
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: Sometimes our leftist friends don't build the biggest tent and
• 55:12
  Speaker 6: we all should just welcome people into the Bernie club.
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: I think there's like two competing things that are in
• 55:16
  Speaker 6: my mind. Like, first of all, in Congress, obstruction works.
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: Mitch McConnell built a whole career off it. So let's
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: just obstruct everything Trump does and try to prevent harm.
• 55:23
  Speaker 6: And then there's the other piece of this, which is
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: like people are looking for something to be for.
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: And some sort of inspiration.
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: And when I talked to Alistair Campbell for the Sunday pod,
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: he was Tony Blair's guy. And one thing they did
• 55:32
  Speaker 6: before Tony Blair became prime minister was they like they
• 55:36
  Speaker 6: literally had a big contentious debate about the constitution of
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: the Labor Party, like the DNA of it. They had
• 55:42
  Speaker 6: a huge contentious fight, like ripped it down to the
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: studs and tried to reimagine it. And I think the
• 55:46
  Speaker 6: Democrats were missing that process. And it probably won't come
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: until we have a nominee. ahead of the 2028 primaries.
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: Cause you know, whoever's the top of the ticket kind
• 55:55
  Speaker 6: of reshapes the party around him or herself. But I
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: think we're missing some of that. We're missing a process
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: to kind of like re imagine who we are and
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: our brand and our values and then project it outwards.
• 56:06
  Speaker 6: I also, I agree with that.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I also think there's like, I'm, I'm watching, uh, the
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: real housewives, uh, from the beginning, a lot of them.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: And honestly, everybody was right. I can't believe I waited
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: this long.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: It's a dream.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: It's better than any drama. Severance can eat shit compared
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: to the real housewives in New York.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Got some nodding heads over there.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: But there was a moment during a reunion where Andy.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: The reunion episodes are the best.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Incredible. Well, Andy turns to all the gals and says,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: would you come back for another season? And Alex said,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: I would love to. And Jill said, I'm not so sure.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I bet Jill got more money after that. And I
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: just like, there's a downside to Democrats constantly hand-wringing in
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: public about how terrified they are of looking like they're obstinate.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: or like worrying about how they need to show that
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: some of their constituents want them to kind of coordinate
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: with Trump and not be so opposed to him while
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: opposing the bad parts, is it sends a message that
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: they're fucking, that they'll bend, that they'll give up. And
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: if like Democrats were a little bit more like, we
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: will support bills that do the right thing and we
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: won't be ransomed into supporting the resolution.
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: Hold the old cards a little closer to the vest.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. Like Trump is a negotiator. He's not a
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: very good one, but he thinks about it. He cares
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: about it. It's like, Maybe like, let's think about that
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: a little bit.
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: But also good for Bernie for filling a space and
• 57:22
  Speaker 6: like giving people a place to go to get excited
• 57:24
  Speaker 6: and fired up.
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: I think that's great.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: In house districts that Republicans won by only a few votes.
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: And more Democrats should be doing that. Absolutely.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: Whether you like Bernie's politics or not, here's a guy
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: who has not changed anything about himself and doesn't want to,
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: doesn't care how you feel about it, is completely comfortable
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: in his own skin. And he's going around drawing these
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: big crowds, just old traditional style. Just go and do
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: a rally, and you talk to people, and everyone's like,
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: this is great. He didn't figure out the TikTok trend.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: He didn't figure out exactly how to do an explainer
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: video that's vertical video.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: He's not like, we've got to stop the oligarchy. No cap.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: That's not Bernie's move. That's not Bernie's move.
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: That's the shit I did there, I think. How was it?
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: It looked really fun.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: The rally was great. We sat down with Bernie after,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: but we were supposed to talk to him before the rally.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: We only talked to him after, which was after his
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: third rally, and he was pretty well cooked. So we
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: got a good conversation, but I will say it was
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: also awesome just getting to talk to a lot of people.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: And if you go to Crooked Socials on Instagram, on X,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: on TikTok, you can see all the conversations. And We
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: walked to the end of what was one of the
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: longest lines I've ever seen in politics of people trying
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: to get in, and it was really fun. So check
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: it out.
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: Subscribe on TikTok, Instagram. Absolutely. X, maybe. Take it or
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: leave it.
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: All the platforms.
• 58:59
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  Speaker 4: It's an amazing vitamin. I know Charlie Favreau loves a
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  Speaker 4: good Hya vitamin. And that kid's looking tall, handsome. Smart
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  Speaker 4: as a whip. Yeah, I saw he was throwing anchors
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  Speaker 4: off a steamship. He's incredible.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Kid's strong.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: He just made a supercomputer, some sort of quantum thing?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he did.
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  Speaker 1: He said he was talking to us about qubits.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, what?
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• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: All right, enough of us yapping about it. Let's hear
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: your conversation with the man himself, Bernie Sanders.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Senator, welcome back to Pond Save America.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Good to be with you.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: We were just talking about this. We're in Warren, Michigan.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: It is not an election year. There are 10,000 people here.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you, I have, needless to say, I've done
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of rallies. And we've done rallies during the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: presidential campaign that were larger than this, for sure. But
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: the idea that in a non-campaign, coming here to Warren, Michigan,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: that you have 10,000 people is totally insane. And what
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: it tells me, and we had tremendous turnouts in Kenosha.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: We had wonderful turnouts in a small community in Altoona, Wisconsin.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: And what it tells me is the American people are
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: up in arms now. They are not going to let
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Trump and his friends turn this country into an oligarchy.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: They're not going to let him turn us into an
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: authoritarian society. And they're not going to allow him to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: give tax breaks to billionaires and cut the programs that
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: working class people need.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: You said something yesterday in Wisconsin. You said we're no
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: longer moving toward an oligarchy. We are living in one.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Which I hadn't heard you say before.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Well, look, I think the evidence is pretty clear. When
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: you have a president get inaugurated and standing behind him,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: sitting behind him with the three wealthiest people in the country, Mr. Musk, Mr. Bezos, Mr. Zuckerberg,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: and then sitting scattered throughout the stage, 13 other people
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: billionaires who Trump nominated to head major agencies, secretary of treasury,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: et cetera. You tell me what you would call it.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: This is, I find it hard not to describe it
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: as a government of the billionaires. And that is what
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Alakaki is about.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: There's this, you know, you made this video after like
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: doing two weeks into Trump's term. And it was really
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: meaningful for me just personally, because I found it very
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: helpful to think about how to fight back You talked
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: about needing to define what's happening, needing to fight back
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: in the short term and then needing to build a
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: progressive movement and agenda in the long term. But there
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: was also like a, there was a gravity in your
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: voice and a sense that in a way that I
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: maybe hadn't heard before. I don't know if you agree
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Look, these are the scariest times in my lifetime. That's all.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's objectively the truth. You know,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: it is not just, they want to give tax breaks
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: to billionaires and cut programs for working people. Frankly, That's
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: happened before. But you combine that with the power of
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: the oligarchy in general. You combine that with Mr. Musk
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: owning Twitter and able to send out his messages to
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of people. You combine that with the
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: fact that people like Bezos, the second wealthiest person in
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: the country, fired or got rid of most of his
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: editorial staff and is going to convert him into a
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: right-wing thing. Combine that with the fact that Trump is
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: suing major media outlets and is threatening to investigate PBS
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: and NPR. So it's not only the power of money.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: It's also combined with that the movement toward authoritarianism. You know,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: when Trump unilaterally cuts federal funding that was passed by Congress,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: that is illegal. That is unconstitutional. when you have the
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: vice president saying, well, in his judgment, the courts don't
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: have the right to stop unconstitutional acts of the president, man,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: that is authoritarianism. That's what the courts are. He is
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: now trying to end what the founding fathers were pretty
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: smart about, creating a form of government where there were
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: checks and balances, a legislative body, an executive body, and
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: a judiciary. So he is moving aggressively in all of
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: these areas Yeah, there was gravity in my voice. This
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: is a scary moment.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: There is strange contradiction in fighting back, because on the
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: one hand, you have the kind of brazenness of what
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Trump is doing, as if he won't ever have to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: worry about Democratic legitimacy at all, that they're not worried
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: about being held accountable or they're not worried about people
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: paying attention. They're not worried about what could happen. But
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: then we're here in a district that Republican won by
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: a few points, right? These people still care about their jobs, right?
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: This is a place where normal politics just seems still
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: be possible to practice. And I'm just curious how you
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: think about that, that on the one hand, we're facing
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: this unprecedented brazen power grab by the richest human beings
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: in the history of planet Earth. And on the other,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: we got to knock on doors and turn people out
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: to win by a few hundred, maybe a thousand votes
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: in a district like this.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I think, and This is what I believe, maybe
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: I'm wrong, but it is what I have always believed.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: And I am a politician, you know. And when people
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: stand up and talk, when your phone line bangs off
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: the hook, when you see rallies, if I'm the congressman
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: from this district and I see 9,000 people coming out
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: who really do not want tax breaks for billionaires and
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: cuts in Medicaid, you know what, I'm gonna think twice
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: about it. So I think what Trump and Musk hope
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: is they can create a sense of powerlessness in people. Hey,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: what do you think? I got all the money. I
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: got all the power. I own the media. I can
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: buy elections.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: What do you think you can do?
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: You can't stop me. And if people believe that, we're
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: going to lose. But if people understand that when they
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: stand up and fight back, and that's why at the
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: end of these remarks, I talked about the history of
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: this country. This is not the first time. You know,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I think back, a slightly different thing, you know, in
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: December of 1941, 1941, the United States was attacked at
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Pearl Harbor. You know what? We have to fight a
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: war on two fronts completely. The military was not prepared
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: to do that. Yet in two years, the country came together.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: We were able to lay the groundwork for victory.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: We can do it.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: We can do it when people are mobilized and are
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: prepared to stand up and fight back.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: So what does success to you look like in the
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: short term?
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: In the short term, it means a solid defeat of
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: this outrageous reconciliation bill. which would provide $ 1. 1 trillion in
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: tax breaks to the 1% and massive cuts to Medicaid, nutrition,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: and education programs. That's the immediate. We win that, we
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: got them on the defensive. And that's why I'm here
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: in this district and why I was in Kenosha and
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Altoona earlier.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: What does that argue for doing even before we get
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: to that reconciliation vote? Because right now they're trying to
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: jam through this continuing resolution just to keep the government open,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: to give them time to negotiate with each other to
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: figure out their tax cuts and Medicaid cuts.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll be back in Washington on Monday and we'll
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: be delving into that, but there's a lot of stuff
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: that's flying on, so I can't give you a good
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: answer on that one.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: You know, I remember when the Bush tax cuts were
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: on the table and they talked about starving the beast.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you remember. But the reason they said that
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: is they were kind of attenuating the connection between massive
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: tax cuts for the richest people and inevitably what they
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: would try to do next, which was privatizing Social Security,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: cutting health care. They understood that there was a political
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: risk in doing that. Can you remember a time when
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: you have had, at the exact same moment, an active
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: proposal to cut $ 1 trillion worth of taxes for the
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: richest people, to give people making over a million dollars
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: an average of $ 70, 000 just in cash money, while also
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: firing 80,000 people in the Veterans Affairs?
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: No, this is unprecedented, and it's why this is a
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: scary moment. Look, Musk is many things, but he is
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: extraordinarily arrogant and extraordinarily aggressive. And they're going for it.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: They're going for it. I mean, it's just hard to
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: keep up with what they are doing. And that's not
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: an accident as well. But I tell you, I think
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: that when you propose to cut, was it 83,000 positions
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: at the Veterans Administration? the American people are going to say,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: you're not going to do that. Because no matter what
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: your politics may be, there is respect for people who
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: put their lives on the line to defend our country.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: And I've been talking to veterans all over this country.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: And you know what? I don't think they're going to
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: get away with that. I think the veterans community is
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: going to stand up. that he could have seniors all
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: over this country saying, no, I can't get a phone
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: call now because the Social Security Administration is understaffed. Some 30,000
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: people a year die who have disabilities because they don't
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: get their benefits on time. This will only make it
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: much worse.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: So there was a report out of the Times about
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: basically a fight in the Cabinet room or in a
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Cabinet meeting between Musk and Rubio and Duffy and Trump
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: and all these characters because they're feeling that political consequences
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: of the attention on long hold times, people just trying
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: to find out what happened to their social security checks
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: or veterans being laid off. Most of the 25% of
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: the people that work at VA are veterans. So they
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: are firing veterans who take care of veterans. I can't
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: think of a less popular decision. Is there any hope
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: in the pressure that you that's taking place inside of
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration. I know we want to beat these people,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: but in the meantime, we've got to figure out anything
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: we can do to stop these decisions.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: No, I think not. I mean, I think the answer
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: is going to be exactly what we're doing here today,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: and that is rally thousands of people all over this country.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Our next trip, we expect, will probably be heading west,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: maybe to Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, whatever, and just put pressure
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: on these members of Congress. Now, in fairness to them,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: Because of the corrupt campaign finance system. If some Republican
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: today stands up and says, you know what? I am
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: not going to cut Medicaid in my district to give
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: tax breaks to billionaires. You know what happens? The next day,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: Musk says, guess what, fella? We're going to primary you.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: I got endless amounts of money. You're in trouble. These
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: guys are scared to death. They're scared to death of Musk.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: But we're going to have to force them to make
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: a choice. They can be scared to death of Musk
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: or they can be scared to death of their own constituents.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: That's the choice we're going.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: To give them.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: So, look, I don't know if you have any interest
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: in talking about what Democrats are doing wrong, if you
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: cared about their outfits at the State of the Union,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: but we can skip it if you want.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, Democrats will, and you want to talk about Democrats,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: I'll give you Chuck Schumer's number, Hakeem Jeffries, you can
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: talk to them. I'm here doing, you know, as you know,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: I'm an independent, the longest, I'm proudly longest standing independent
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: in American congressional history. I'm doing what I do. Democrats
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: will do what they do. And that's that.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: So we talked to a bunch of people on the line.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: that were excited to be here. And one that we
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: heard was just people saying how much they believe in you.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: They're here because they want to do what you think
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: is best. And they, they view you as like a
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: moral leader.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: Of the movement.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Um, but they also are, are feeling, uh, worried and
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: nervous that you're a little bit out here alone. And,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: you know, you said that you may not seek reelection, uh,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: You make that definitive. I said I didn't make it definitive.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: I am 38 years of age now.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: I am getting old.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not. Listen, I think there's a lot of ways
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: to be 89. There's a lot of different versions of 89.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: You're Sprite. You're Sprite. Rolling Stones. They're still touring. But
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: do you think about a successor?
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: No, I don't want to. Look, all I will tell
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: you is that one of the untold stories is that
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: When I was in the House, I helped form the
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: Progressive Caucus, you may know that. And we had about
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: five people at the time, grew a little bit. Today,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: there are somewhere around 100. And there are fantastic people,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: many of them, dozens of them, young people, many of
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: them are women, people of color, great people. So, you know,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: that is one of the success stories that the progressive
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: movement has had. We've elected people, the likes of which
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: when I was in the House, you know, 18 years ago,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: they didn't exist. So we're making some real progress. We've
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: got to do a lot more.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: Here's my last question for you. You want to talk
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: about the future. Would you ever take an edible with
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: me and sit down and just have a conversation about
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: the future? Just get really stoned on marijuana, really brainstorm?
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: But I'm happy to talk to you. I don't need
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: to do marijuana to talk. What happened?
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: What happened to the radical? What happened to the Bernie
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: of the 60s? Let's get stoned.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: Are you serious?
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: That's not who I am, as a matter of fact.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: I've done marijuana twice in my life. Twice?
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: Didn't quite agree with me.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Do you want to end Daylight Saving Time?
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Doesn't matter. Okay.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: That's our show for today. Dan and I will be
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: back with a new show on Friday. Talk to everybody then.
• 1:13:47
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