Latest / The In-Between Tech and Trust Podcast / Tech & Trust in 2025: The Good, The Bad and The Big Bets for 2026 - EP14

Transcript

Tech & Trust in 2025: The Good, The Bad and The Big Bets for 2026 - EP14 · The In-Between Tech and Trust Podcast

0:02
There is this FOMO and I think there is this this fear of not
0:06
starting early enough so that you can actually create value in
0:09
the long term. But at the same time, I think we
0:11
really need to start figuring out what are the problems that
0:14
we're actually solving for. Hello and welcome to the In
0:18
Between Trust podcast. And I gotta admit, it's quite
0:22
the special episode today because I'm not joined by one
0:25
guest, but by 4 amazing women that I had the privilege to
0:29
spend some evenings together across the past couple of months
0:33
because we formed some sort of exchange on strategy topics.
0:38
And with me in the room are Mia, Tosha, Captain and Karina.
0:43
And today we want to frame the year 2025 a bit at the
0:47
intersection of tech and trust. A warm welcome and hello to the
0:51
four of you and to all listeners.
0:54
I do want to start with you, Mira, and maybe you could
0:57
briefly introduce yourself and then pass the ball on to one of
1:00
the others. Yes, thank you.
1:03
If I thank you for hosting this wonderful podcast, I'm yeah,
1:07
yeah, I am based in Stuttgart in Berlin.
1:11
I'm currently working as Head of Business development and the
1:16
creative agency in Berlin named Shows.
1:19
And I'm leading the strategic growth and helping brands and
1:23
basically our team to move from strategy to real life impact
1:29
real life output. And this is mostly what's
1:32
driving me very curiousity driven and especially right now
1:37
at these times with development of AI on how open we can be as a
1:43
creative industry within that topic.
1:45
Amazing. Do you want to pass it on to
1:48
someone? I'm passing the ball to Tusha.
1:50
Hi, thank you very much. My name is Trisha.
1:53
I am a strategy director at Adidas.
1:56
I currently work on tech transformation topics.
1:59
So basically working on how do we need to reimagine technology
2:04
to ensure that we're organizationally successful in a
2:07
way. And I'm super happy to talk
2:09
about this topic because I truly believe that transformation is
2:13
always connected to changing human behaviors in a way.
2:17
And I think that this topic specifically when it comes to
2:20
tech and trust, is also very connected to human behaviors.
2:23
And yeah, super happy to deep dive into it and explore a
2:27
little bit. And I will pass on the ball to
2:29
Catherine. Thanks.
2:30
Yeah, and thanks for having me. Thanks for building this round,
2:33
Eva. Wonderful, wonderful idea at the
2:35
end of year to reflect in this manner.
2:38
My name is Catherine. I'm director narrative
2:41
Consulting with C3. That's an agency based in some
2:45
cities in Germany, even in London.
2:48
Which means I'm strategist for communication and also
2:51
transformation, with long experience in media, PR, comms
2:57
and strategy. And on the baseline, I'm helping
3:01
people and organizations and executives defining their story
3:06
to bring it into life with clarity and with impact.
3:10
Sounds easy? It's not, because most people
3:13
aren't this clear. And this brings me to to this
3:17
whole topic because it's about to communicate for others.
3:21
And it's about trust to communicate yourself and your
3:23
plan and your strategy into the outer world.
3:26
And as AI is in our business every day, it's even more
3:30
important to have a clearview on that.
3:33
Where does it help? Where does it spark?
3:36
Yeah, a thin line, which is between fear and and trust.
3:40
So happy to discuss this and over to you Karina.
3:43
Thanks Captain, and thanks Eva. I'm very excited also to join
3:47
this group this time for this. Special.
3:49
Podcast, I'm managing partner of the one.
3:52
We are boutique consultancy that works with global clients on
3:57
strategy, communication, brand and of course developing teams.
4:00
Also internally, it's trust, it's a currency and the biggest
4:04
assets. And of course, using tech and
4:07
consulting in tech. It's daily jobs pretty much on a
4:10
daily thought process on these topics.
4:13
Happy to discuss today. Amazing.
4:16
Thank you all for also providing some context of where currently
4:20
at with your thinking at with also your context in a
4:23
professional kind of way because there is like a common
4:26
denominator that we all have. It's been part of your business
4:30
and part of your like your thinking in collaboration here.
4:34
You said in terms of creativity, Trisha mentioned transformation.
4:37
Cutton just highlighted the importance of clarity and
4:41
Katrina also the term of collaboration.
4:44
So it has like a various kind of views that we've had.
4:47
And I come with a hypothesis in our conversation that I do want
4:52
to discuss with you because all of you are in different kinds of
4:55
sizes, companies, contexts, but all of you could relate to the
5:00
topic. And I would love for you and for
5:02
us to explore today of how you related.
5:06
And I do want to start with asking Captain, what was your
5:10
like Maine? Also, maybe interrelation with
5:13
the intersection of tech and trust that stuck with you,
5:16
particularly in 2025. And why?
5:20
That's a good question because there are many.
5:22
To be frank, I stumbled upon many situations where I wondered
5:26
about AI in both ways. Positive is negative.
5:29
It helps a lot on a daily basis. I guess every one of us is
5:32
working with AI and doing doing help and research and stuff like
5:36
that. And but for example, when I
5:39
myself from sparked with AI on a specific task and I got an
5:44
answer and because I knew about the topic, I knew, OK, that's
5:48
not true. So what's going on here?
5:50
So where, where do you get this from?
5:52
Why do you make it up? And it really stunned me because
5:56
I didn't expect it. I'm out of an age when I have a
5:58
technical thing in front of me, either tool or software.
6:02
I I just trust that there's kind of function and I paid for it.
6:06
So it might work, but that's different with AI.
6:08
It's not, it's not a given. It's just as every tool as good
6:12
as you use it. And that made me very aware of
6:15
it. And since then I have that as
6:16
pairings and better conversations with AII.
6:19
But it also came down to your particular experience, right?
6:23
And Tosha, in your introduction, you mentioned that you consider
6:27
the topic on an organizational level as well.
6:29
And now listening to what Captain just introduced us to in
6:33
terms of like personal sparing, how does that translate?
6:36
Or is there like a connection on an organizational level as well?
6:40
And if so, how do you navigate that?
6:43
Yeah, it's a super interesting question and I was thinking a
6:46
little bit about it this morning.
6:47
From personal experience, I observe a lot of people trusting
6:51
with a lot of information when it comes to ChatGPT or other
6:56
eyes. Like people started to use it in
6:58
2024, especially as a personal consultant, even psychotherapy
7:04
coaching mechanism. And I think it comes down to the
7:06
fact that there's an anonymity and there is a way that I can
7:11
just kind of put in anything that I that's kind of on my mind
7:14
without being shamed for it or without feeling shame because
7:18
nobody's on the other side to judge me in a way.
7:20
So for some reason there's like the barrier to trust this
7:24
process is very low. So we just given the information
7:27
that we that we feel we need to have an answer on.
7:29
But when I translate that into organizational transformation,
7:32
trust is like the biggest barrier I think to changing
7:36
behaviors because it doesn't matter if you introduce a new
7:38
tool, a new process, a new way of working.
7:41
People need a long time to actually trust that this is the
7:44
way forward and to be an advocate for the change and
7:47
transformation that we see organizationally.
7:49
So I think it's like it's a real big paradox in a way.
7:52
And, and I was just really wondering how, how that comes
7:55
together and how we can actually start to maybe utilize or
7:59
rethink how this trust that we obviously have in a one to one
8:03
connection when it comes to technology can also be applied
8:05
to a systematic change or an organizational change.
8:08
And I don't have an answer yet, but I think it's it's an
8:11
interesting topic to explore. And Katrina, I see you're also
8:15
resonating with what Trisha had just shared.
8:17
What comes to your mind also from your perspective and with
8:21
the team or your clients that you collaborate with?
8:23
Yeah, actually when it comes to AI, always a lot.
8:26
And that's also part of the challenge I have because you can
8:29
have this discussion of trust on so many different levels, like
8:33
as a tool, how do you implement it in the team?
8:36
How do you create learning journeys that also the talents
8:39
can trust and not lose trust in their own capabilities and
8:44
ability to have good conversations and discussions.
8:46
But then also like with the clients, umm, to, to adopt AI.
8:52
And then even on a system level, what does it mean with our like
8:55
profession and our function and how to set up teams and think
8:58
that is the biggest challenge or this is something that is from
9:01
the tiny little detail up to the biggest discussion you can have
9:06
at the moment and say, sometimes it's overwhelming, but it's
9:09
definitely also exciting to to have these kind of variety of
9:12
conversations. And I was too sure I don't have
9:14
an answer to that. I just see that it's such a
9:17
unmatched field and topic. But isn't it?
9:20
Isn't it a quite common thing we all know from from ourselves in
9:26
work life that you are open to a specific singular thing like a
9:31
tool that normally it means an especially AI.
9:36
It's not about getting a new tool, it's about getting a new
9:38
way of working. It's about how to use it and it
9:42
has lots. Using AI means there's lots of
9:44
shortcuts now in it, which mean you have to to reshape the whole
9:49
way of working and the whole way of outcome.
9:51
And this the willingness to work on a systemic view of work.
9:56
I always felt quite low because it's real work and it needs to
10:01
be talked about and it needs to be defined finds and there needs
10:04
to be a guideline or a railguard where to head to and why.
10:07
It's not as easy as deciding for software.
10:10
Also at this specific speed that we now have with a tool because
10:14
the, you know, like all of our feats are just blown with new
10:20
releases and I don't know like new functions and ways of using
10:26
AI, it's really hard to find a focus and then at the same time
10:32
implementing basically a new structure, a new workflow.
10:36
So that's what we are not only facing in our own company, but
10:39
we are very agile, I would say per SE, but especially when it
10:44
comes to clients. They are asking very basic
10:47
questions and it's really on us to be as transparent as
10:51
possible. It's sort of feels like the
10:53
whole sustainability wave that we had a couple of years ago
10:57
where everybody was asking a what's your sustainability plan?
11:01
And you know, for a very long time you were able to say, yeah,
11:04
we're going to implement this and that and we assure you that
11:07
this and that. But now everybody has the
11:09
opportunity to use the same tools.
11:11
So even clients or clients teams, they know exactly what
11:14
you're working with, you know, they have the same opportunity.
11:18
But I want to Pete something that you said Catherine,
11:21
beforehand, you said I pay for it, so it must work.
11:24
I think like that's a lot of trust you give like in advance.
11:29
And it's also, I think there's something lying deeply in that,
11:33
in that sentence that we also hear and see the stories behind
11:40
those tech companies that releases those AIS.
11:44
And we find it very hard to build trust around these
11:47
personalities, for example. So even that is like something
11:51
that is very new to us. The interesting part is that
11:55
like you directly, all of you jump to is change systems and
12:01
time and at the same time we're told that AI its efficiencies,
12:06
there is so much speed. There is also like the way of
12:09
how it frees up some of our spaces.
12:12
But when I listen to you and you also like experience this
12:16
potential. And I have the another
12:18
assumption that sometimes there is this expectation versus
12:21
reality gap that with the adoption of AI tools,
12:24
particularly on a team and organizational level, need
12:27
moderation or also need some way of, you know, engaging,
12:31
creating, understanding, also providing some sort of
12:33
education. How did you also throughout 2025
12:37
and your organization tackle that and enable or provide
12:41
enablement if at all? Well, maybe I, I start, umm, I
12:45
mean, if I share a little bit what we do internally, because
12:48
that was also the starting point when I realized it challenges my
12:52
usual way of leadership, giving guidance and giving out the
12:56
confirmation that that we do is the right thing and we can build
13:00
on certain things that we know that work and that we need to
13:04
challenge our thinking. It's really, it's really all
13:07
about these moments where these really top talents that are
13:10
super confident to use tech and usually also tell me what to do
13:14
and shall have these moments where they say, if I use it, how
13:18
do I use it in a way that I don't lose my ability to judge?
13:23
That I make sure that I get the experience that I need to also
13:27
judge later on so that can I that I can reach out to maturity
13:31
in the topics to have the conversations and to, to find a
13:35
balance of saying, hey, you just need to try.
13:37
You need to test, go explore, fail early.
13:41
All these kind of thinking with need to you need to make sure to
13:44
understand still processes, challenge the thinking.
13:47
It's such a fine line. So I would say we, we try to
13:51
combine like testing and exploring and also setting like
13:56
faces of adoption within our team because we, we just also
14:00
don't know the answer and we cannot apply our usual
14:02
leadership and how we have 30 years of experience, 40 years of
14:06
experience. We do it that way.
14:07
I'd go that way. Can I ask a question, Karina, do
14:11
your clients actually ask you if you are more efficient?
14:17
Like do they approach you with these kind of questions and are
14:20
they expecting, are they expecting you to be more
14:24
efficient in a certain time? Frame, I mean also there it's of
14:28
course different reactions. Generally we have quite open
14:31
discussions, also conversations. So yes, they are, they also ask
14:35
how do we use it, where do we use it?
14:37
What are our experience recommendations, where, how does
14:40
it reflect also of course in our pricing, how does it reflect
14:44
also in the outcomes? What are we measured on KPI?
14:47
So and, but also like if, if we have experience or if we are
14:51
aware of best cases how to use it and I mean a lot of
14:55
conversations, will agencies or consultancies survive in that
14:58
form or is it an in house discipline sooner or later?
15:02
So a lot of conversations basically.
15:04
Yes. How is it for you, Catherine?
15:05
Yeah, I feel quite familiar with, with the things Karina
15:08
said. And, and I would add, yes, for
15:10
sure there's an efficiency win for sure.
15:13
Lots of things can be done faster by AI when it comes to
15:17
research, umm or structuring the first, first steps of
15:21
structurings. And that's not the real value
15:23
for me because yes, it could be done even by a human being,
15:27
maybe more time. But the real value of, of AI and
15:31
for our work when it comes to strategy, when we really nail it
15:34
down to strategy teaching work is spinning your head around
15:38
something and spinning your head around something means not going
15:42
for the easy answer or not going for the the first answer, but
15:46
keeping on questioning. And that costs time.
15:49
So for me, AI frees up lots of space and time mentally and
15:54
really to do the real work behind.
15:56
And that has its value. And that has it's, it's fun to
16:00
work on and it's fun to, to work with the younger ones because
16:03
they have different perspectives.
16:05
So yes, and they might not have the same tasks normally juniors
16:10
or people who grow into their career did have in the past that
16:14
it's so valuable to have their perspectives because the first
16:18
answer sometimes is good, but sometimes it's not.
16:20
And I think it's a kind of, it's a question of mindset is most of
16:23
the times when you when you have new technologies, if you want to
16:27
use it only for efficiency or if you want to use it to really.
16:30
Get better if I can add to that because I love what you also
16:33
just said around the the strategy topic and thinking like
16:37
really spinning your brain around something and figuring
16:40
out like, how will this serve ourselves in the long term?
16:43
Because I do find myself sometimes in rooms where it's
16:46
about AI for AI. So everybody has this FOMO of
16:51
not jumping on the train. So there's this reactive
16:55
approach to let's figure out how to most quickly design use cases
17:00
that we can use AI for and then just do something around it.
17:03
And I empathize with that because I think there is this
17:06
FOMO and I think there is this this fear of not starting early
17:10
enough so that you can actually create value in the long term.
17:13
But at the same time, I think we really need to start figuring
17:16
out what are the problems that we're actually solving for, like
17:19
what are what are the things that are also worth to solve
17:21
for? And then really hound into how
17:24
we can use not, not to say I, I think also technology in general
17:28
to create a long term impact. And I think this is where
17:31
strategy comes again into play, where you want to move away from
17:34
more tactical approaches to really the long term value.
17:38
While at the same time, if you don't start somewhere, you will
17:41
never start. And it's such a, it's such a new
17:44
topic that I think people don't really know where to start.
17:47
So I, I feel that there's a lot of overwhelmness with like, what
17:50
do I actually do? How do I approach this?
17:53
How do I move into it? Also knowing that it's not a
17:55
tool, but actually, if you do it properly, a whole operating
17:59
model change, which needs investment, which needs, yeah,
18:04
this kind of like thinking it through.
18:05
And I think people are just like, really overwhelmed by that
18:08
right now. I do want to add 2 perspectives
18:10
to that. The first is you talked about
18:12
operating model and like the classic way of how also during
18:16
times of digital business transformation like 10 years
18:19
ago, you said you keep the core, but you expand into like the new
18:24
business or like future business models.
18:26
So you had like this, let's say 1 dimensional transformation
18:29
process to like navigate. But what now happens is you have
18:33
the core business that at the same time as like future
18:36
business needs to be transformed or also translated into new ways
18:41
of working. So that causes particularly on
18:43
an organizational level, this duality of like management that
18:48
now on a process individual teams level need to be
18:51
communicated or also so transparently transported.
18:54
And what I think particularly interesting from all of your
18:59
like moments that you shared is that we start with efficiencies.
19:02
And I think we should also consider that it will create a
19:07
lot of quality in the way that we do things and the way that we
19:11
can deliver like towards consumers, clients towards also
19:15
like the ecosystems that we want to shape in.
19:17
And having this clarity around what we actually, especially, as
19:22
you just said, want to impact. It's like really hard because at
19:26
the same like with this duality of like ways in front of us, but
19:29
at the same time also with the like daily business that we
19:33
have, where do we take the time from?
19:34
And I do want to get into the time aspect and aspect with you.
19:39
How do you navigate that on a personal and also leadership
19:42
level? Is that counted in or is it like
19:45
something that you need to free up on top?
19:48
Maybe Captain, you want to start?
19:51
Honestly, when it comes to my personal time, time spent with
19:55
AIII, can't tell you how much I how much time I spent today
20:00
interacting with AI because it's just in my, in my work behavior.
20:05
When it comes to the topic of AI in the organization, like in in
20:10
the agency itself or in the team, in my point of view, you
20:13
clearly have to to make space for that.
20:16
I think it's, it was said lots of times in this round, you have
20:20
to give teams and individuals the space for for try and error
20:25
for just yeah, get getting yourself familiar with, with
20:30
tools, with AI, if it's different, different companies,
20:35
general or whatever you name it, there's lots of and it's, it's
20:39
for text, it's for picture, it's for whatever.
20:41
So you have lots of varieties to, to dive and deep into and
20:45
you have to come up with time for the kind of, yeah, some
20:51
smallest projects where you can, where you can try if, if it
20:54
works, if it really brings efficiency, if it really is
20:57
there a new value in it if you add AI or is it, is AI not the
21:01
real value behind? And we make that in the agency.
21:04
So with AI ambassadors and every team, they get the time to
21:07
really dive into every single thing that comes up new on the
21:12
market to drive. There's something better than
21:15
the things we use. And we have specific projects we
21:18
use. And we also openly work with
21:21
specific clients and tell them, listen, we have an idea that
21:25
might be something really valuable for you, but we haven't
21:28
tried. Are you willing to, to enter
21:30
this with us? And most of the times it's
21:33
wonderful because it means learning on both sides.
21:35
And that's what's the most value for me because it, it also
21:39
enables parts of the clients itself to, to act with it and
21:42
to, to yeah. And to make up their minds on
21:44
it. And Mia, if you now work with
21:48
creative teams, I might assume that there's like loads of
21:52
exploration, loads of also motivation to get creative to
21:57
also experience the way that you will get resonance or
22:00
inspiration through using some of those tools.
22:03
And isn't that also exciting for like you, the colleagues and the
22:06
clients that you do? And where do you think like if
22:09
we look ahead in like 2026, where do you think is it?
22:12
Is it headed? It's, I have to say it's very
22:15
intense. I mean, we are a team of around
22:19
like 15 people plus freelancers and so on and so on.
22:24
And I would say there are like 4 to 5 people that use AI tools,
22:30
many different tools as part of their like working tools.
22:35
So it, it has like almost 80% of their time is AI is included in
22:42
some way. And we do make time to explore,
22:48
but it's, it's within client projects, which makes it very
22:51
intense because that's why I asked Karina you about questions
22:56
that also clients approach you with when it comes to time
23:00
frames and budgets. And so this is like top of top
23:04
of our minds all the time because we get confronted with
23:07
that. But we try to be, as you said,
23:09
Catherine, very open, say, hey, there are some unanswered
23:12
questions even for us when it comes to, you know, like also
23:18
the legal part and also how to calculate individual projects.
23:23
But it's very interesting because most of the times the
23:26
clients are very open to to explore.
23:29
And it may be in the beginning, it may be for AI sake, just, you
23:33
know, to get some learning themselves.
23:35
But I would say for 2026, it's less about the low hanging
23:39
fruits also within exploration, but more to really implement
23:44
into workflows. And it's also for us, it means
23:48
we have a lot of invest right now, time invest and also trying
23:52
different tools. It's also money invest of
23:55
course. And there will be more tools
23:57
next year. But I think it's people are
23:59
adapting at the moment and also client teams and our own team is
24:03
adapting. And I would say it's, it's a no
24:06
brainer after a while. Like all of us are using Google
24:10
Maps for a couple of years and we are, it's also working with
24:13
AI. So we won't talk so much about
24:16
the technical part and more of workflow and maybe hopefully
24:20
more creativity again because there are a lot of really
24:23
shitty. Things.
24:25
Created with AI out there. If I can add to that of that,
24:29
because it resonates so much with me like this part of like,
24:32
it's pretty new in a sense, but it feels in the beginning it was
24:37
all about freeing up time for everyone to test it and to use
24:40
it. And now at least also for us,
24:42
it's even more on freeing up time to reflect and pause make
24:46
it better because the use as such is not native but more
24:51
intuitive and in the workflows already.
24:53
That's an interesting and super fast development from one stage
24:56
to the next. One and one thing when I listen
24:58
to both of you, Miriam Karina is what immediately came in my mind
25:02
is that, umm, more and more often I now have projects with
25:06
clients. Umm, I, I somewhere is in the
25:09
process. But in the end, it always boils
25:11
down to OK, we still have to take decisions on our own.
25:15
No, it's not the AI that will take it for you or it's not the
25:18
AI telling you. Yeah, which direction to to
25:21
route 4 and it's still the human.
25:23
I, I had the, I had the experience in, in this year 25
25:27
that there was kind of a unspoken hope at on clients side
25:31
that AI would solve lots of the liminal spaces in their
25:35
structure when it comes to who takes the decision and who's
25:39
owning it. And now AI, yeah.
25:42
But now they see, OK, AI is, is only pulling away the sheet
25:48
from, from the whole picture even faster.
25:50
So oops, we are naked below. So what do we do from the
25:53
strategic perspective? For me, that's, I love it
25:57
because for me it means we, we can dig deeper even faster.
26:01
So wonderful. But it means a lot of stress for
26:04
the, the people on client side because they are confronted
26:07
with, with the truth even faster.
26:09
And that needs, again, systemic work, transformational work,
26:12
human work. That's your like right there.
26:17
Go for it. Yeah.
26:19
I think it it resonates a lot. I do believe that like you said
26:25
there, it brings a lot of transparency and it brings a lot
26:28
of lifting the sheets of what is potentially not working in the
26:32
most best way. And I think it also there was a
26:35
big hope that it also reduces complexity.
26:37
But I think we're at this point where it doesn't reduce
26:40
complexity right now. It kind of surface is the
26:43
complexity that we actually have and that on different levels,
26:45
right? Like on process levels, on our
26:47
tech stack level. Like the moment you want to
26:50
start to change things is the moment where you see what kind
26:53
of complex technology landscape you actually have built over the
26:56
years. And that's also where I come
26:57
back to the overwhelmness of like, where do I actually start?
27:00
Well, I think a lot of guidance and expertise is basically
27:02
needed. And when it comes to decision
27:05
making, I think you hit the nail on the head.
27:08
I don't know if that's an English explanation, but in the
27:11
end, it's also about like, like trusting that you make the right
27:15
decisions based on the complexity that you see through
27:17
technology. And I think this is where now we
27:20
need to read, be very clear on what do we want for the future
27:23
and what are kind of, again, like the problems that we want
27:25
to solve for. But I also wanted to highlight
27:27
something that I think all of you said, which was a reflection
27:30
coming back to the beginning of our conversation because you all
27:33
were referring to having like AI ambassadors or people who
27:36
explore technology, invest time into exploring technology and
27:39
new tools. Maybe that's how you built
27:42
trust, right? Because I think quite often
27:44
transformation when I think about like transformation we
27:47
run, they're quite often top down.
27:48
So somebody defines something and then the organization needs
27:51
to kind of systematically move towards that.
27:53
Maybe it's really about empowering people in the
27:56
organization to explore themselves, how to utilize it
28:01
and then start to build more from a bottom up perspective on
28:04
how does all of that play together to then have a long
28:06
term strategy approach? Because that's when I start to
28:09
trust, right? When I see it working for me,
28:11
when I see how it, it doesn't take away my job, but it
28:13
actually complements my skills in a way.
28:16
So I think that's an interesting view to look at it.
28:19
The question is just like how to organize it in addition to all
28:22
the complexity that we just pointed out.
28:24
So true. But I do think like the
28:26
organizational part is the one where it gets also personal
28:31
because there's like organizations with heritage,
28:34
then persons and roles like navigating that across different
28:39
kinds of functions, formalities also change is something that
28:42
requires a lot of like communication.
28:45
So I do think I wonder of how that's going to turn out in
28:48
2026. If you like each and everyone of
28:51
you had to take a bet for 2026 at the intersection of tech and
28:57
trust, which bet would you throw into the round and why?
29:01
And if we come back in 2026 in December, hopefully also
29:05
December 10th and we'll look at it, what would you hoped for?
29:09
What has happened? It's a difficult one to, to
29:14
answer, but I, I, I take a safe bet and that's the one end of
29:18
next year, everything that we bet on right now will be kind
29:22
of, yeah, the normal thing. And we will have entirely new
29:26
conversations and new questions on the table because the speed
29:30
we see and the unknown things that we now explore there will
29:34
be something we haven't even considered terms of business
29:37
models in terms of possibilities, in terms of
29:39
conversations at the intersection of and trust.
29:43
What I wish for is very personally for us as group, for
29:47
my team and also with the clients that we do have these
29:50
moments to reflect and pause. And not just one, even though
29:54
I'm I love to explore and I'm super curious, but having these
29:58
moments are so valuable. Not only shortly before end of
30:01
the year, but I think that's my wish to have these moments of
30:05
reflection pausing. It really is a tough question.
30:09
But when it comes to to, to betting on future kind of I
30:12
would bet that in a year we have lots of consumer products with
30:17
AI like I think Deutsche Telecom actually just came up with a
30:20
kind of glasses with perplexity in it.
30:24
I don't know what to use for, but it, it seems to be a nice
30:27
thing, not not too expensive for stuff like that.
30:30
So I think this gap between people just consuming AI without
30:35
knowing what's behind or if they should question it, and on the
30:40
other side having people developing an AI, deploying it,
30:44
I think this will grow. So my bet is, yeah, there will
30:46
be lots of consumer products with AI, which brings me to the
30:51
point of I think when it comes to trust the, the, my ask for
30:56
for the on the tech side is to yeah, how to deploy and and
31:00
governance steer this whole thing and umm, this is so
31:03
important. Without that you don't get the
31:06
trust. So it's a question about the,
31:08
the entities behind this whole layers.
31:11
Umm. Yeah, I'll try to answer as
31:13
well, but I also feel like it's a very hard question because I
31:16
choose to see the future positively, like I believe to be
31:21
a person who does that. At the same time, when I think
31:23
about some of the the behaviors that are emerging, there are a
31:26
lot of things that I'm a little bit scared also about, like what
31:29
it will mean for humanity as a whole if we do continue with
31:33
some of these behaviors. And that's why we're maybe
31:36
piggyback on what Catherine said in terms of how do we govern and
31:39
steer it in a way that enables us to really be responsible, to
31:44
keep the human connection, to not get into a situation where
31:48
we create echo rooms for ourselves, but really just try
31:53
to find a dialogue enabled by technology.
31:56
I would, I think that would be like a very beautiful bet to say
32:00
how can AI actually support us to have a better and bigger
32:04
dialogue about trust and diversity in the biggest space
32:07
of technology. Maybe that's very utopian, but.
32:10
I mean, you know me. So that is music to my ears and
32:14
I love, like I would love for that to come to reality in 2026.
32:18
But I do think there is some work still to be done and maybe
32:22
me you want to add on to or also explore a completely new field
32:26
for your bed would be. Yes, I can resonate with a lot
32:29
of things that you are said already.
32:34
I was thinking, yes, totally on your page, Tusha.
32:38
I'm always very, very optimistic and OK, let's dive into
32:42
something new. But I have to say I have two
32:44
little kids. And from this point of view, I
32:48
also feel I'm putting a lot of trust into politics and decision
32:52
makers on a completely different level.
32:55
And at the same time, I'm finding that very scary.
32:59
I can't see the same speed within politics that we have on
33:05
economic side. So I put a lot of hope for 2026
33:09
that yes, we are able to use those kind of consumer gadgets
33:14
or products that help us be, you know, to, to clean up our house
33:19
or to navigate us through the world.
33:23
Also to, to learn. This is the the one thing.
33:26
And on the other side speaking, speaking more from a business
33:30
development perspective, I really think that it's a new
33:34
matchmaking. If if a client is looking for a
33:38
very tech driven answer, they will find an agency, a company,
33:43
a consultancy that has the same said.
33:45
Somebody is checking more on, I don't know, interaction, human
33:50
interaction. They will look for something
33:53
different. So it's really like a filter.
33:55
I think 2026 will be a filter for exactly maybe new kind of,
34:00
you know like looking for a new kind of partnership, business
34:03
partnership. Amazing bets to be taken.
34:06
I look forward to proving them throughout the year.
34:10
And since we now also come to the end of our session and I
34:15
always do that. So I do want to do this with our
34:17
round as well, to have some in between moments with you.
34:21
And these are like very short like reflections that I throw
34:25
into our conversation. And each and everyone of you
34:28
will get one. And from the top, top of your
34:30
heads, you just answer with what comes to your mind promptly.
34:33
And I want to start with you, Katrina, first, because I would
34:37
be curious to hear when you look into 2026, what are you excited
34:42
about regarding technology? All the conversations that I
34:46
know will be there here with the group, out with everything I'm
34:50
I'm super curious what comes to the table and what are the new
34:53
topics to discuss. And Captain, also for next year,
34:58
what would you ask more of if you could ask technology to
35:04
deliver? I would love to ask all these
35:06
tech rows or tech rows, what are you really willing to change in
35:11
your approach on this whole item?
35:13
Because nowadays it's still just keeping the path of good old
35:17
capitalism, so we know where this might lead to.
35:19
So what are you really willing to change to make AI a tool for?
35:23
Really. Evolving and Mia for next year.
35:27
And according to you, how can tech create trust?
35:30
I would say especially starting first internally within our own
35:35
teams, being radically transparent about how we use it,
35:40
how we personally feel about it. Also same applies to
35:45
communicating with with the clients and also not being
35:47
afraid to be very awkward asking awkward questions.
35:52
And finally, Tricia, when trust is a feeling, how can tech
35:57
contribute to it next year? I hope that technology can
36:02
createspace for us again to feel more in.
36:06
I call it the real world. I know technology is also
36:09
embedded into our real world, but how can we, like Karina
36:12
said, take the moments to reflect and feel again rather
36:17
than just thinking about in an effective and productive way?
36:20
Amazing. I look forward to experiencing
36:23
that together with you or also in other kinds of interactions.
36:27
But for now, thank you so much for our conversation for or the
36:30
thoughts that you brought into also this space.
36:35
And yeah, I hope we can continue that or at least get together in
36:41
December 2026 to see of how our bets turned out to be.
36:45
Thank you. Thank you, Irfan.
36:46
Thank you. Thank you.
36:47
Thanks for the. Invite.
36:50
See you soon, hopefully.