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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE MOM MISSING: DAY 13 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: Breaking news Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing, day thirteen.
0:13
Speaker 2: This as new video emerges, a composite sketch goes out
0:19
Speaker 2: and DNA has been sent to a.
0:21
Speaker 1: Private crime lab in Florida.
0:26
Speaker 2: This as word of a turf war between the FBI
0:31
Speaker 2: and local authorities emerges. The last thing we need tonight.
0:35
Speaker 2: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
0:38
Speaker 2: want to thank you for being with us. Good evening
0:47
Speaker 2: everyone Again, I'm Nancy Grace. I want to thank you
0:49
Speaker 2: for being with us here at Crime Stories. I want
0:51
Speaker 2: to show you video that has emerged online on social
0:56
Speaker 2: Let's see it, guys at the top, which I'd like.
1:00
Speaker 3: To zoom in on.
1:02
Speaker 2: We see yet another video that has been posted. It
1:10
Speaker 2: appears to be a white or Hispanic male on the
1:14
Speaker 2: front porch, reportedly from a home in the vicinity of
1:21
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's home where she was kidnapped. This is an
1:26
Speaker 2: example of one of the many many videos reportedly caught
1:33
Speaker 2: on door cam, surveillance cam and posted. This as a
1:43
Speaker 2: composite has been released, Joining me an all star panel
1:48
Speaker 2: to make sense of what we know. Tonight this guy
1:52
Speaker 2: featured in this video has not been named as a suspect,
1:58
Speaker 2: a person of interest, anything in relation to Nancy Guthries's case.
2:06
Speaker 2: Tammy Ballor joining US DNA crime scene consultant, crime scene
2:09
Speaker 2: Investigation and reconstruction expert, law enforcement liaison at AUTHRAM Labs,
2:15
Speaker 2: and former DNA criminalist in the San Diego Police Department
2:19
Speaker 2: crime Lab, Tammy It's really important that we don't have
2:24
Speaker 2: a wild goose chase for the wrong guy, right, But please,
2:29
Speaker 2: everybody keep sending your videos, your door cams, your everything,
2:33
Speaker 2: because you never know when you're gonna hit. All right,
2:39
Speaker 2: No one is naming him as a defendant or a
2:43
Speaker 2: purp or a co defendant in this case, Timmy Ballard,
2:49
Speaker 2: why is it so important that the wrong person is
2:53
Speaker 2: not named?
2:54
Speaker 4: You do not want to follow a pathway and there
3:00
Speaker 4: is valuable time, So at this point, excluding somebody is
3:04
Speaker 4: as important as including somebody. So whatever information that you
3:08
Speaker 4: can get, whatever items of evidence you can get to
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Speaker 4: include or exclude somebody, is very very critical of this time.
3:16
Speaker 2: Door cams, surveillance cams, yard cams, hunting cams, wildlife cams
3:24
Speaker 2: are being combed at this hour. Much of that video
3:27
Speaker 2: is being posted online. Much of it is being sent
3:30
Speaker 2: to the FBI.
3:31
Speaker 3: They want it.
3:32
Speaker 2: We keep hearing about the tens of thousands of tips
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Speaker 2: that are pouring in.
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Speaker 3: That's their job.
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Speaker 2: They have an entire and elite crew set up joining
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Speaker 2: me Scott Aiker, Digital forens It's expert founding member of
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Speaker 2: the Cellular Analysis serve a team.
3:49
Speaker 3: Cast with the FBI.
3:51
Speaker 2: They are the people, the women and men you can
3:53
Speaker 2: thank for pulling up that front door video.
3:58
Speaker 3: Let's see it because it's amazing.
4:00
Speaker 2: Remember Sheriff Nano said at the beginning, Oh shucks, everybody,
4:05
Speaker 2: it's just such a terrible koinky ink that Nancy Guthrie
4:08
Speaker 2: did not have a subscription to her Nest because if
4:10
Speaker 2: she had paid that extra eight ninety nine a month,
4:13
Speaker 2: then we'd have the videos of the perp.
4:15
Speaker 3: Darny, darn, darn. The FBI was.
4:18
Speaker 2: Finally invited in. They cannot just come in unrequested, and
4:23
Speaker 2: they used their.
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Speaker 3: Cast team to comb all of the.
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Speaker 2: Data points, literally trillions of data points of information through Google,
4:37
Speaker 2: who owns Nest. Guthrie had a Nest cam, a Nest system,
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Speaker 2: and out of all of those trillions of points of data,
4:47
Speaker 2: they find Nancy Guthrie's little itty biddy doorcam and they
4:55
Speaker 2: resurrect this.
4:58
Speaker 3: It's a maze.
5:01
Speaker 2: So Scott iiker, I want you to weigh in on explain. Oh,
5:07
Speaker 2: by the way, he is now at pc A Experts
5:12
Speaker 2: as Precision Cellular Analysis Experts dot com.
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Speaker 3: Scott, who is wading through.
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Speaker 2: All of these videos like the one we're just saying
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Speaker 2: guy not a suspect. That's an example of some of
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Speaker 2: the videos that are being sent in.
5:31
Speaker 3: Who is doing it?
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Speaker 5: Well, You've got probably a hundred analysts in the command
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Speaker 5: post and some being working remotely going through all these
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Speaker 5: tips and Ring camera and Nest camera video to try
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Speaker 5: to collate and figure out which is important, which is
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Speaker 5: not important, and kind of matching up a movement of
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Speaker 5: people through different cameras, just like this Nest camera that
5:58
Speaker 5: cast was able to get. We had a good relationship
6:02
Speaker 5: with Google over the years dealing with their location information,
6:06
Speaker 5: so when we heard that the Nest camera was being used,
6:11
Speaker 5: we were able to contact those partners and they were
6:14
Speaker 5: able to pull that video. So this is fantastic that
6:17
Speaker 5: we got this. There's going to be tons of people
6:20
Speaker 5: going through all the videos and tips that people are
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Speaker 5: providing from their cameras in the neighborhood for that whole month.
6:28
Speaker 5: As we've heard that the police department and FBI are
6:31
Speaker 5: asking for video from a month almost a month back,
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Speaker 5: So it's going to be a ton of work.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something like and remind me to circle back
6:38
Speaker 2: with Dave mac on that it's something like Jan two
6:43
Speaker 2: through FAB one or Jan one through FAB two. They
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Speaker 2: want the whole month, which tells me, Scott Iiker that
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Speaker 2: they believe the perp had been in the neighborhood, either
6:54
Speaker 2: casing Guthrie's home or casing everybody's.
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Speaker 3: Home in daytime and nighttime.
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Speaker 2: Hours because one of the two dates specifically they are
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Speaker 2: honing in on. One is daytime hours and one is
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Speaker 2: nighttime hours. But you know, Iker, you make it sound
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Speaker 2: so simple they were able to pull up this video.
7:16
Speaker 2: It's really not that simple, especially to a layperson like myself.
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Speaker 3: I'm just try a lawyer. I'm not on cast.
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Speaker 1: What do they have to do?
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Speaker 2: Somebody puts the directive on your desk, goes hey way
7:30
Speaker 2: through Google in financing Guthrie's home cam, her porch cam.
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Speaker 3: She doesn't have a subscription, but good luck.
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Speaker 2: What do you actually do to pull up to resurrect
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Speaker 2: that video.
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Speaker 3: It's not easy.
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Speaker 5: It's not easy, and you've got to hand it to
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Speaker 5: one of the cast people that know what they're looking
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Speaker 5: for and proviting that to Google. Based on the camera itself,
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Speaker 5: it has a specific identifier that Google can track. They
8:00
Speaker 5: have to give them the timeframe and then Google has
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Speaker 5: to do a lot of work to provide that. And
8:05
Speaker 5: you got to remember, we're only seeing what the law
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Speaker 5: enforcement FBI and the sheriff's departments want us to see.
8:12
Speaker 5: There might be more video that they're not releasing at
8:15
Speaker 5: this appoint in time, but it is very difficult to
8:18
Speaker 5: get that data. In this case, I think this data
8:21
Speaker 5: was the video was sent to the cloud by the
8:25
Speaker 5: Nest camera that recorded it, but you know, it just
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Speaker 5: did not because they didn't have a subscription, didn't come
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Speaker 5: to their phones or their you know, their log into
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Speaker 5: the next camera, so it was kind of being held
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Speaker 5: in the cloud. We just needed to make sure we
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Speaker 5: got it before it was deleted, and thank god we did.
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Speaker 3: You know, I ker, who is it? Where are they
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Speaker 3: are they in DC? Are they in Quantico? Where are
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Speaker 3: the people coming through all this data?
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Speaker 5: Well, it's a combination. We always send people to that
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Speaker 5: area where the event is occurring, because you need real
9:01
Speaker 5: time people looking at it.
9:02
Speaker 6: But because there's so.
9:04
Speaker 5: Much to do, we can do remotely work and have
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Speaker 5: a lot of people helping and providing that to the
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Speaker 5: command of.
9:11
Speaker 1: Things Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
9:24
Speaker 3: I want to move now off of the video.
9:29
Speaker 2: Possibly an unrelated guy on a porch that somebody sent
9:32
Speaker 2: in reportedly from Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. There he is on top,
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Speaker 2: not a suspect, not a person of interest, but whoever
9:41
Speaker 2: sent it is well intentioned. This is some USA news
9:45
Speaker 2: HQ on x that's where it was posted.
9:49
Speaker 3: At this hour. We have a composite.
9:54
Speaker 2: Compositive sketches are not easy. Hey, you just mentioned something
9:58
Speaker 2: that ker had said.
10:00
Speaker 7: Dave.
10:00
Speaker 2: I'm going to circle back to you on the composite,
10:01
Speaker 2: but I want to just button this up.
10:04
Speaker 3: Iker.
10:06
Speaker 2: You stated that we are seeing only what l E.
10:10
Speaker 2: Law enforcement wants us to see, and I agree. Is
10:14
Speaker 2: it possible that there was audio connected to the porch
10:20
Speaker 2: cam number one number two? We know their cameras inside too,
10:25
Speaker 2: inside Nancy Guthrie's home as well.
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Speaker 3: How do we know that? Because Sheriff Nanos came out
10:30
Speaker 3: and made a point of.
10:31
Speaker 2: Saying there were no none of the cameras inside were smashed. Okay,
10:38
Speaker 2: we didn't know that juncture. There were definitely cameras inside,
10:41
Speaker 2: But when he said none of the cameras inside were smashed,
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Speaker 2: then we knew there were cameras inside. Is do you
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Speaker 2: believe if Cast and Google could mind the front porch cam,
10:54
Speaker 2: they could mind the cams inside as I call them
10:57
Speaker 2: the granny cams.
11:00
Speaker 3: For not only video but sound.
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Speaker 6: It's a possibility.
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Speaker 5: We got lucky in getting this front porch camera here,
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Speaker 5: but that doesn't mean they are not still working on
11:11
Speaker 5: some trying to get that data that might have been
11:15
Speaker 5: stuck in the cloud. I wouldn't say that it's impossible,
11:19
Speaker 5: but if they haven't released something by now regarding that
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Speaker 5: other stuff, I think it's gone or.
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Speaker 6: Not able to be retarded.
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Speaker 3: What about audio.
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Speaker 6: Audio is a possibility.
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Speaker 5: Some cameras, nest cameras have microphones, some do not, so
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Speaker 5: it really just depends on the type of camera that
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Speaker 5: was being used at that point.
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Speaker 3: Let me see the composite sketch.
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Speaker 2: Really quickly plays composite sketch because it seems to me
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Speaker 2: that the purp on the front porch eyebrows are thinner
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Speaker 2: than they are in the composite sketch. Let's see the
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Speaker 2: front skit the purp again. But what about this to
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Speaker 2: ran Its Gibbons joining us he is a ract Operations
12:00
Speaker 2: USPA Nationwide Security. He leads it to a team of
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Speaker 2: investigators around the world finding missing people, such as Nancy
12:08
Speaker 2: Guthrie at Uspasecurity dot Com.
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Speaker 3: Brian.
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Speaker 2: When you put on the ski mask and you adjust
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Speaker 2: the eyes after you pull it on, I wonder if
12:22
Speaker 2: it didn't pull his.
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Speaker 3: Eyebrows up a little bit, because if.
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Speaker 2: You look at it, he has no hooding whatsoever on
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Speaker 2: his eye. His eyelids, see what I mean, It's almost
12:35
Speaker 2: like they're pulled back. And I think that's what gave
12:37
Speaker 2: me the impression. While I know it's a man that
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Speaker 2: he had effeminate features, because his eyebrows looks so thin
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Speaker 2: and his.
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Speaker 3: What do you make of that?
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Speaker 2: Is that possible because the composite shows much heavier eyebrows.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, And in that composite, right, they're taking the distance
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Speaker 7: of the eyes, the shape of the eyes, the distance
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Speaker 7: from the eyes to the mouth, and that sketch artist
13:00
Speaker 7: doing the best that they can to render what they're
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Speaker 7: able to see. From the facial structure of this individual.
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Speaker 7: Now with regards to the eyebrows and what we're seeing
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Speaker 7: underneath that mask, you know, it's unclear. You know, that
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Speaker 7: could be the bottom of an eyebrow, It could be
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Speaker 7: being pulled up, and that could just be a shadow
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Speaker 7: on that thick stitched lining around the eyes.
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Speaker 6: So it's very unclear what we're seeing there.
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Speaker 2: Oh okay, wait, I hadn't thought of that stitching. What
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Speaker 2: I am looking at and thinking it's thin, even tweezed
13:37
Speaker 2: eyebrows could just be stitching or the underside of the
13:42
Speaker 2: ski mask, underside of ski mask, because I'm looking to
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Speaker 2: see if it's on the bottom too. Not really well
13:50
Speaker 2: right right there, actually fitz Gibbons's look on his left.
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Speaker 6: Our right, Yeah, you can see that.
13:56
Speaker 3: You kind of see the same.
14:01
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. That's very very astute, especially on his left eye. Yes,
14:07
Speaker 2: darn it, I thought I was onto something. Hey, what
14:10
Speaker 2: about this?
14:11
Speaker 3: Everybody jumping?
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Speaker 2: I've got Tammy Ballard, a DNA crime scene consultant formerly
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Speaker 2: with San Diego PD DNA Criminalists, Got Iker formerly of CAST,
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Speaker 2: now at p c A Experts in Brian Fitzgibbons, what
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Speaker 2: about AI?
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Speaker 3: Can they help with the composite.
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Speaker 2: They can it help with the composite thoughts Iker.
14:37
Speaker 5: You know, I think it can. You've seen some of
14:39
Speaker 5: the things that it's done. When you take that information
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Speaker 5: and put it all in different angles, different heights, different views,
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Speaker 5: and the light and dark parts. I think it can help.
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Speaker 5: But you know, the sketch artists and I think would
14:56
Speaker 5: probably be better. At this point in.
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Speaker 2: Time, a retired Houston forensic artist Lois Gibson, created an
15:04
Speaker 2: unofficial sketch of the masked figure, hoping it would help
15:08
Speaker 2: find Nancy Guthrie. And she is legendary. She came out
15:13
Speaker 2: of retirement to create the sketch Investigators focusing on doorbell
15:19
Speaker 2: video and from that this sketch is made. Now could
15:25
Speaker 2: AI enhance it? Hmm, Let me understand this, Dave mac.
15:30
Speaker 2: This is not an official sketch, no man. This is
15:34
Speaker 2: not released by the FBI, and this is not released
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Speaker 2: by nanos.
15:38
Speaker 6: No.
15:38
Speaker 8: It is a retired prime sketch artist out of Houston
15:42
Speaker 8: named Lois Gibson, and she did this unofficially, not asked
15:47
Speaker 8: or invited, just did it out of her own background
15:51
Speaker 8: and knowledge and wrote this and drew the sketch. The
15:55
Speaker 8: FBI has given us the basic parameters of the height
16:00
Speaker 8: of a male who is five foot nine to five
16:02
Speaker 8: foot ten, average build and wearing the black twenty five
16:05
Speaker 8: Leader Ozark trail Hiker packed backpack. That's what the FBI
16:10
Speaker 8: released the description that we're looking at. The actual sketch
16:14
Speaker 8: was done by the sketch artist Lois Gibson, retired in Houston.
16:19
Speaker 8: She was not asked to do it. She did it,
16:21
Speaker 8: and it was released through her and through local television
16:24
Speaker 8: stations who have put it out there as an unofficial sketch.
16:28
Speaker 2: Well, I know it was not released by law enforcement
16:31
Speaker 2: or the FBI, but this woman created composite sketches for
16:36
Speaker 2: over thirty nine years, five eighty nine sketches in all,
16:42
Speaker 2: over one hundred over one thousand, two hundred sixty six
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Speaker 2: people identified, and that is a world record for identifications
16:52
Speaker 2: based on composite sketches. Now, Iker is furiously shaking his head. No, no, no,
16:58
Speaker 2: why Iker, Well.
17:00
Speaker 5: Well, you know it's not taking any of the away
17:03
Speaker 5: from miss Gibson, who might be an excellent sketch artist
17:06
Speaker 5: and had success in the past. But you don't want
17:10
Speaker 5: to interject stuff into this investigation that's not approved by
17:13
Speaker 5: law enforcement. You're going to send people down the wrong
17:16
Speaker 5: road if that sketches off. So we've got to just
17:19
Speaker 5: make sure that it goes to law enforcement and let
17:23
Speaker 5: them release it if it's relevant to the case. We
17:26
Speaker 5: don't want to screw mess things up even more messier
17:29
Speaker 5: than it is with all the tips and all the
17:31
Speaker 5: videos that we have.
17:33
Speaker 3: Okay, point will taken guys.
17:36
Speaker 2: In addition to this composite sketch being put out on
17:39
Speaker 2: social and on the media, an official official from law
17:45
Speaker 2: enforcement description of the alleged perp has been released.
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Speaker 3: Dave mac what do we have? What are they saying?
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Speaker 8: Five foot nine to five foot ten average build, and
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Speaker 8: they did identify the backpack that he was seen with
17:59
Speaker 8: wearing that black twenty five liter Ozark trail Hiker pack backpack.
18:05
Speaker 8: But five foot ninety five foot ten average built, that's
18:07
Speaker 8: what we're being told by the FBI.
18:10
Speaker 2: Also at this hour, a turf war reportedly Nano says,
18:15
Speaker 2: though that's not true, but we do know that the
18:19
Speaker 2: gloves found and late last night we learned that a
18:23
Speaker 2: glove and DNA has been found inside Nancy Guthrie's home
18:29
Speaker 2: to Temmy Well. To finish that thought that the glove
18:33
Speaker 2: in the DNA has been sent to a private lab
18:36
Speaker 2: in Florida. Okay, let me just absorb that for a moment,
18:41
Speaker 2: because you've got the FBI at your beck and call.
18:47
Speaker 2: I don't believe there's a single private lab that's got
18:49
Speaker 2: anything over on the FBI crime lab. I know that
18:54
Speaker 2: there are crime labs, private crime lab, crime labs that
18:58
Speaker 2: specialize in d graded DNA mixtures of DNA where you
19:04
Speaker 2: have multiple people's DNA mixed together, old DNA minuscule or
19:10
Speaker 2: practically no DNA. That DNA has to be regenerated and tested.
19:16
Speaker 2: Why Nanos chose to send the DNA out of a
19:21
Speaker 2: Tucson case to a Florida lab instead of the FBI
19:25
Speaker 2: lab at Quantico. It's actually making my head hurt, Tammy Ballard,
19:31
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get to the bombshell that there is DNA
19:33
Speaker 2: in the.
19:34
Speaker 3: Hum, which I'm not surprised about, right are you?
19:38
Speaker 2: I mean a hair a fiber hey, speaking of fibers.
19:42
Speaker 2: Wayne Williams case, remember that, Tammy Ballard, the multiple boy
19:47
Speaker 2: and teen victims, many of them had carpet fiber on
19:52
Speaker 2: their bodies that matched the carpet fiber in Wayne Williams's
19:57
Speaker 2: vehicle and his parents. As a matter of fact, a
20:02
Speaker 2: guy I worked with very closely in the Fulton District
20:06
Speaker 2: Attorney's office, Joseph Drola, brilliant ultimately ran our appellate division,
20:13
Speaker 2: worked on that case and worked on getting that carpet
20:18
Speaker 2: analysis into evidence. So there could be carpet fibers in
20:24
Speaker 2: there from the purpose vehicle, there could be hair, there
20:28
Speaker 2: could be fiber from that ski mask. All of that
20:34
Speaker 2: has been taken and sent to a private lab.
20:39
Speaker 3: Why Tammy, Why?
20:41
Speaker 4: Well, I did read somewhere that p. Mccounty does have
20:46
Speaker 4: a prior arrangement with this laboratory. I am going to
20:51
Speaker 4: venture a guest that I know which private laboratory is
20:54
Speaker 4: taking on this responsibility, and I will say they won't
20:58
Speaker 4: take this on without having a rush status and having
21:03
Speaker 4: the capabilities to do what's best by the evidence. That's
21:06
Speaker 4: not saying that the FBI laboratory isn't going to prioritize
21:10
Speaker 4: this as well, and again have the best intentions with
21:14
Speaker 4: the evidence, but both the FBI and the Florida lab
21:20
Speaker 4: potentially are going to have the limitations of getting that
21:24
Speaker 4: data that they get those DNA profiles into the best
21:28
Speaker 4: databases possible to search for that suspect. If they don't
21:31
Speaker 4: have a suspect, the goal is going to be to
21:34
Speaker 4: get them into these databases, the code of databases at
21:38
Speaker 4: every level possible, local, state, and national, and they want
21:43
Speaker 4: to be able to find that perpetrator. So hopefully this
21:47
Speaker 4: private laboratory has an agreement with the state lab in
21:51
Speaker 4: Arizona that they can get these profiles once they obtain
21:56
Speaker 4: them from the glove, which I'm sure they're going to
21:59
Speaker 4: get some DNA off of those gloves. Get those into
22:02
Speaker 4: the databases is the big, big priority, so we can
22:06
Speaker 4: see if they can identify a perpetrate.
22:09
Speaker 2: Tammy, I heard and digested everything that you just said. However,
22:14
Speaker 2: even if Arizona and I believe they spend over two
22:18
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars with this private lab, you know, leading
22:21
Speaker 2: up to right now, even if that private lab does
22:26
Speaker 2: have an agreement with either Arizona or Florida they're based
22:29
Speaker 2: in Florida to use CODIS. A private lab can't just
22:33
Speaker 2: get into CODIS. That's a national database of DNA. That
22:38
Speaker 2: would be like me saying, oh, I've got a private
22:40
Speaker 2: lab up in my kitchen, can I now access CODIS.
22:44
Speaker 3: No, you can't. States can, State crime labs can access CODIS.
22:51
Speaker 3: The FBI can access CODIS. What is codis.
22:55
Speaker 2: It's a national database of DNA. It's created mostly of
23:01
Speaker 2: purpse that have given their DNA and fingerprints when they're arrested.
23:05
Speaker 2: DNA found at crime saynes either solved or unsolved.
23:09
Speaker 1: And more.
23:10
Speaker 2: But that said, I still don't hear an answer just
23:14
Speaker 2: because they have a relationship with this private lab. That
23:17
Speaker 2: private lab can't do anything the FBI can't do, and
23:20
Speaker 2: the FBI is already on the case.
23:22
Speaker 4: So why well, I will say that some of these
23:24
Speaker 4: private laboratories have I mean they will. If it's the
23:28
Speaker 4: lab that I think it has, it is it has
23:31
Speaker 4: pretty much everything in its wheelhouse to be able to
23:35
Speaker 4: work on this case. So I would say that.
23:39
Speaker 3: What lab do you think it is, Tammy.
23:41
Speaker 4: I'm going to venture a guess that it's DNA Labs International,
23:45
Speaker 4: and they have a very good reputation. They have a
23:50
Speaker 4: very fast turnaround time, so I would say it would
23:53
Speaker 4: be equal to the FBI laboratory. If not, I mean
23:58
Speaker 4: potentially even more in the wheelhouse. So I don't think
24:02
Speaker 4: they would have taken this case on if they didn't
24:05
Speaker 4: have the time, the energy dedicated to it, the analysts,
24:08
Speaker 4: and the promise that they're going to get this out
24:12
Speaker 4: in the best way possible, the fastest way possible. Now,
24:15
Speaker 4: the same issue is either the FBI or the Florida Lab.
24:20
Speaker 4: They're still going to have to have somebody in Arizona
24:24
Speaker 4: take ownership and vet that data. So I can almost
24:28
Speaker 4: guarantee these are mixtures of DNA, and you want to
24:31
Speaker 4: get every single contributor to be able to be searched
24:35
Speaker 4: in those databases. So that's the hope that everything was
24:39
Speaker 4: explained and understood by the sheriff at that time, so
24:43
Speaker 4: that everybody knows if this is all about what's best
24:47
Speaker 4: by the evidence, no egos, no shutting people outright.
24:51
Speaker 2: Wait wait wait, wait wait, I know what we all
24:54
Speaker 2: hope and what we all think and what we all
24:56
Speaker 2: dream is going to happen. You stated you believe there's
24:59
Speaker 2: more than on on mixed You said, what did you
25:02
Speaker 2: say you think there's more than one DNA? Are you
25:05
Speaker 2: saying it's mixed DNA?
25:07
Speaker 3: What are you saying?
25:07
Speaker 4: Take a glove for example, You're going to have the
25:10
Speaker 4: inside of the glove and the outside of the glove.
25:12
Speaker 4: They best be processing those separately, because every time you
25:16
Speaker 4: touch an item, you're going to potentially have that transfer
25:19
Speaker 4: of another person's DNA. So I've done a lot of
25:23
Speaker 4: gloves in my career, every kind from cloth to leather
25:27
Speaker 4: to the latex gloves. You're almost inherently going to have
25:33
Speaker 4: a mixture of DNA because you're touching other items. You're
25:37
Speaker 4: touching the doorknobs, so handling other people, So there's going
25:41
Speaker 4: to be They need to be able to extract that
25:45
Speaker 4: DNA and decide how many contributors are going to be
25:48
Speaker 4: there and search effectively for all of those contributors. If
25:51
Speaker 4: those gloves have touched Nancy, then they are going to
25:54
Speaker 4: have Nancy's DNA potentially on them. You need to take
25:57
Speaker 4: her out of the equation so that you're only looking
26:00
Speaker 4: for that perpetrator.
26:01
Speaker 3: And that is why Tammy Ballard is so renowned.
26:07
Speaker 2: She just explained why there is very likely a DNA
26:10
Speaker 2: mixture on the gloves, if in fact the gloves are related.
26:15
Speaker 9: Hi, there, everybody on behalf of our family. We want
26:22
Speaker 9: to thank all of you for the prayers for our
26:25
Speaker 9: beloved mom Fancy. We feel them and we continue to
26:32
Speaker 9: believe that she feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal,
26:43
Speaker 9: fiercely loving woman of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky,
26:50
Speaker 9: and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd
26:56
Speaker 9: around her and cover her with kistmas.
27:00
Speaker 6: That's five.
27:08
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
27:14
Speaker 3: At this hour.
27:15
Speaker 2: The reward for information leading to the recovery of Nancy
27:18
Speaker 2: Guthrie has been double to one hundred thousand dollars one
27:23
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars.
27:27
Speaker 3: Last night we.
27:28
Speaker 2: Learn that there is DNA that has been recovered inside
27:33
Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's home, and seemingly it said.
27:35
Speaker 3: That there's another glove in there. Dave Matt, what did
27:39
Speaker 3: we learn inside the home?
27:40
Speaker 6: Nancy?
27:41
Speaker 8: Multiple gloves, plural gloves were found inside the home. You know,
27:46
Speaker 8: we've been talking about the glove that was found outside
27:49
Speaker 8: during the search about a mile and a half from
27:51
Speaker 8: Nancy's home. But last night we were finding out that
27:55
Speaker 8: gloves plural were found inside the home and we're carently
28:00
Speaker 8: shipped to Florida or analysis did the lab as we
28:04
Speaker 8: were talking about a few minutes ago.
28:06
Speaker 6: So yeah, multipied the home.
28:08
Speaker 2: Tell me what everybody, let's put our heads together. What
28:12
Speaker 2: type of DNA could be in the home. And I
28:18
Speaker 2: really do not like something again that Nano said. And
28:22
Speaker 2: I don't like spending a lot of time saying what
28:26
Speaker 2: the cops or the sheriff did wrong in the middle
28:28
Speaker 2: of an investigation, because it's time waster. But he did
28:33
Speaker 2: say that there is no turf war, and this is
28:37
Speaker 2: what concerned me. He said, these clothes may not even
28:40
Speaker 2: be related. Okay, so what they get second class treatment
28:45
Speaker 2: because they might not be related. Every fingerp printed a
28:49
Speaker 2: crime scene may not be related. That threw me for
28:53
Speaker 2: a loop that he said that Brian Fitzgibbons.
28:56
Speaker 6: They may not be related.
28:59
Speaker 3: What does that have to do with anything they may
29:01
Speaker 3: be related.
29:01
Speaker 6: That was a little bit of a head scratcher.
29:03
Speaker 7: I mean, any article or piece of evidence found at
29:06
Speaker 7: the crime scene may not be related, right, so everything
29:10
Speaker 7: needs to be processed and treated the same.
29:14
Speaker 6: So that comment was a little bit of a head scratcher.
29:17
Speaker 7: Now, I think what he was probably referring to is, hey,
29:21
Speaker 7: was this discarded? Were these gloves discarded by a deputy
29:26
Speaker 7: on early on the scene where they dropped where they
29:30
Speaker 7: dropped by a worker at the house And.
29:32
Speaker 6: It's unrelated to the kidnapping. But hey, we're going to
29:36
Speaker 6: find out pretty soon.
29:37
Speaker 2: Here bombshell, a glove found inside Nancy Guthrie's home could
29:42
Speaker 2: be a major, major discovery. So Timmy Baller was just
29:47
Speaker 2: explaining some of the obstacles that they lab will face
29:52
Speaker 2: when trying to separate, differentiate, and examine DNA. Hope we
29:58
Speaker 2: hope found on the glove you stayed a Timmy Ballard,
30:01
Speaker 2: potential DNA inside the glove and on the outside of
30:05
Speaker 2: the glove. What other DNA or evidence fiber evidence could
30:10
Speaker 2: be found in the home of Nancy Guthrie.
30:13
Speaker 4: Yes, fiber evidence, that's different, a little tougher to come by,
30:17
Speaker 4: but hopefully something is very well processed. But also fingerprint
30:23
Speaker 4: evidence is a big one. Hopefully they did a lot
30:27
Speaker 4: of fingerprint evidence potentially, I know there are gloves involved,
30:31
Speaker 4: the big one I would be looking for as well
30:34
Speaker 4: as the blood source that's on the front porch. Does
30:40
Speaker 4: that start and begin in the household? And if so,
30:44
Speaker 4: was Nancy able to fight back? Do we have two bleeders?
30:48
Speaker 4: So you can't take any of that blood for granted,
30:51
Speaker 4: You've got to look at blood stained patterns and see
30:53
Speaker 4: if there's some outlier that actually could be from the perpetrator.
30:57
Speaker 4: Maybe she was able to fight back. Pretty well, you
31:02
Speaker 4: just don't know, and you can't take anything for granted.
31:05
Speaker 4: So it's basically a process everything and collect everything that
31:09
Speaker 4: could be a potential.
31:10
Speaker 2: To Scott Iiker, joining US digital forensics expert formerly with
31:14
Speaker 2: the FBI. What do you make of it? You were
31:17
Speaker 2: also a homicide detective. What else do you believe they
31:21
Speaker 2: found in the home? Touch, DNA, maybe fiber a hair.
31:25
Speaker 2: All it takes is one hair.
31:28
Speaker 5: One I agree hopefully they process that house very well.
31:33
Speaker 5: But you got to remember when they first went there,
31:36
Speaker 5: it's a missing person, and then later on it turned
31:40
Speaker 5: out to be okay, this could be a kidnapping with
31:42
Speaker 5: ransom and now the video. So initially the police departments
31:46
Speaker 5: in there walking through the house, you know, looking in
31:50
Speaker 5: the basement and the attic, in the every room and
31:53
Speaker 5: making sure she's just not there. Again with the property
31:57
Speaker 5: doing the same thing. So you got to remember, I
32:01
Speaker 5: think when we were talking about this DNA, the FBI
32:04
Speaker 5: was called in a little bit later, a day or
32:06
Speaker 5: two later to try to help, or the FBI came
32:09
Speaker 5: to ask if they could help. So at that time,
32:12
Speaker 5: maybe the Sheriff's Department was on their own saying, hey,
32:17
Speaker 5: we should probably take this glove that we found in
32:19
Speaker 5: the house and send it to the lab. So I
32:22
Speaker 5: don't think there's any rift between the two agencies.
32:28
Speaker 9: You know.
32:28
Speaker 5: I've worked the Jessica Ridgeway case back in twenty twelve
32:32
Speaker 5: with Westminster PD, and we are a force multiplier. We
32:36
Speaker 5: come into the situation at the permission of the local authorities,
32:41
Speaker 5: even though there's cross jurisdiction, especially in a kidnapping case.
32:46
Speaker 5: But in the Jessica Ridgeway case, Westminster was thankful we
32:50
Speaker 5: were there. We brought in fifty different agents and analysts
32:54
Speaker 5: to do work at their request. That turned out to
32:59
Speaker 5: be a really good case. There was DNA found on
33:02
Speaker 5: her backpack that was left in the neighborhood. Several days later,
33:06
Speaker 5: that DNA was sent into COTIS. It was actually processed
33:10
Speaker 5: by the Colorado State of Colorado Lab and it went
33:15
Speaker 5: into KOTIS and they found a hit. But that hit
33:18
Speaker 5: was an unknown person from a prior attack. So even
33:24
Speaker 5: if we do get some DNA and it's put in Dakotis,
33:28
Speaker 5: we're not sure if he's going to match anybody that's
33:31
Speaker 5: known in that Jessica Ridgeway case, it was an unknown person.
33:36
Speaker 2: Well, there's always genetic genealogy that was used, for instance
33:40
Speaker 2: in the Golden Gate killer case Joseph di'angelo one of
33:44
Speaker 2: the first of its kind, familial DNA, genetic genealogy DNA. Hey,
33:49
Speaker 2: that video we were just showing you is from twelve News,
33:51
Speaker 2: So that's a possibility. If the purp doesn't have a record,
33:55
Speaker 2: he may not show up in codis. But if he
33:57
Speaker 2: has a brother, a cousin, a father, a son cut
34:01
Speaker 2: with a record, we're going.
34:02
Speaker 3: To get a match.
34:03
Speaker 2: It won't be full match, but then we'll be onto
34:05
Speaker 2: something that doesn't work. We'll go to genetic genealogy, familial DNA,
34:09
Speaker 2: which has been approved to practically every jurisdiction. Hey, another thing,
34:13
Speaker 2: Dave mac It seems as if vehicles are taking center
34:17
Speaker 2: stage as well as DNA at this juncture, and that
34:20
Speaker 2: would be specifically a gray truck.
34:22
Speaker 3: What can you tell me.
34:23
Speaker 8: We've been told now that the FBI and the Sheriff's
34:28
Speaker 8: department are asking people in the neighborhood to share their
34:33
Speaker 8: nest ring, doorbell cameras any surveillance video they have. You
34:36
Speaker 8: mentioned it earlier January first to February tewod. However, there
34:41
Speaker 8: are two very specific times that they are actually they
34:44
Speaker 8: being law enforcement are focused in on saying they're looking
34:48
Speaker 8: for January eleventh from nine pm M and they're also
34:55
Speaker 8: looking for nine thirty am to eleven on January thirty
35:01
Speaker 8: first in the neighborhood ring doorbell nest cameras. They're looking
35:06
Speaker 8: for a specific possible great truck, but they're also noting
35:11
Speaker 8: every neighbor what they've got, what they drive, what they
35:14
Speaker 8: use on a daily basis. You know Nancy, the neighbor
35:17
Speaker 8: who actually pointed out law enforcement that Nancy's roof looked
35:21
Speaker 8: too clean, Laura Gargano. She confirmed that a request for
35:26
Speaker 8: the dates in question here were sent by Ring Doorbell app.
35:31
Speaker 8: In that request, police noted that a suspicious vehicle had
35:35
Speaker 8: been spotted in the vicinity and they want every piece
35:38
Speaker 8: of video they can get from the neighborhood during those
35:40
Speaker 8: specific times.
35:41
Speaker 2: To Rivus Gibbons, what do you make of the search
35:44
Speaker 2: for a great truck?
35:45
Speaker 7: Yeah, so we've been talking about this for days now.
35:49
Speaker 7: That they obviously had a vehicle to take Nancy away
35:53
Speaker 7: from that site, and that as law enforcement is going
35:57
Speaker 7: to go around with all these ring camera videos and
36:00
Speaker 7: thousands of tips that are coming in.
36:02
Speaker 6: They're going to try to identify.
36:04
Speaker 7: A vehicle because the vehicle, at the end of the
36:07
Speaker 7: day is going to be easier to locate, necessarily than
36:11
Speaker 7: a person.
36:12
Speaker 6: So you know, this great truck could be central.
36:17
Speaker 7: You know, it could be one of hundreds of vehicle
36:20
Speaker 7: leads that they're following down.
36:22
Speaker 2: Now, the vehicle, I can't stress the importance of it.
36:26
Speaker 3: They're saying gray.
36:27
Speaker 2: But remember if Dave max correct iusa off a doorbell cam,
36:31
Speaker 2: a door cam. It could be great. It could be white,
36:33
Speaker 2: it could be beige. But think back on Brian Coburger.
36:39
Speaker 2: The first thing that happened was somebody did gas station
36:43
Speaker 2: quick Mark says, hey, this car came by around three o'clock,
36:47
Speaker 2: four o'clock in the morning. This was a clerk. They
36:50
Speaker 2: took it upon themselves to review hours and hours and
36:52
Speaker 2: hours of video and called authorities. Saw white Elantra. They
36:56
Speaker 2: started looking for a white Elantra. It was sent to
37:00
Speaker 2: Washington State University in Pullman. The campus security went through
37:06
Speaker 2: the registration at Pullman.
37:08
Speaker 3: Who's got a white Alantra? Brian Coburger.
37:11
Speaker 2: That's where his name first came from and then the
37:15
Speaker 2: white Alantra was viewed circling the home eleven visits leading
37:19
Speaker 2: up to the murders or more. Then let's see the
37:24
Speaker 2: Molly Tibbetts person, that perpetrator that murdered this.
37:28
Speaker 3: Young co ed.
37:30
Speaker 2: He was caught by distinctive markings on his black Chevy Malibu,
37:36
Speaker 2: caught on cam.
37:39
Speaker 3: So isn't it true?
37:41
Speaker 2: I ker that local police, especially in a metropolis as
37:47
Speaker 2: big as tucsom and I'm basically this on one. I
37:50
Speaker 2: know of Atlanta and New York, they have entire divisions,
37:53
Speaker 2: like there's homicide, there's sex crimes, there's missing there's car theft.
37:59
Speaker 2: There is a whole division of people working CARTHFSK because
38:02
Speaker 2: there's so many and they can look at a car
38:05
Speaker 2: and go, oh, yeah, that's a nineteen eighty four Chevy Malibu,
38:09
Speaker 2: black in color with blah blah blah and all of
38:11
Speaker 2: the details. They know it like heart, just like I
38:13
Speaker 2: know the Constitution. That's their business. You can determine the
38:18
Speaker 2: year the make the model because every year generally there
38:23
Speaker 2: are subtle changes to the body of a car. Let's
38:26
Speaker 2: just pretend we're talking about a Toyota camera camera. They
38:29
Speaker 2: may on slant the headlights, they may raise up the
38:36
Speaker 2: rear end. They may just some subtle change every year
38:40
Speaker 2: to make it different to the consumer.
38:43
Speaker 3: But specialists in the car theft division.
38:47
Speaker 2: Know all about those subtle changes and they can identify
38:50
Speaker 2: make model a.
38:51
Speaker 6: Year that is so true.
38:52
Speaker 5: And we actually have that in the FBI too. We
38:55
Speaker 5: have experts in that field at the lab.
38:57
Speaker 6: But a lot of the.
38:59
Speaker 5: People that works stolen cars are just you know, car experts.
39:03
Speaker 5: I'm a cell phone and cellular network expert. We have
39:06
Speaker 5: those people in our in our that we can reach
39:10
Speaker 5: out to and they could see, oh, that that trim
39:13
Speaker 5: that's on that car was from this year when Toyota,
39:17
Speaker 5: for example, made that that that car. So they're they're
39:22
Speaker 5: good at it and they definitely can help you out
39:24
Speaker 5: in those situations.
39:25
Speaker 2: Really really good Iker, And remind me, I want to
39:28
Speaker 2: circle back one last time to Ker regarding the cell
39:31
Speaker 2: phone data that's being amassed in Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood.
39:35
Speaker 3: Fitz gibbons to make the.
39:37
Speaker 2: Model the year so so important in a case like this,
39:43
Speaker 2: and then once you get that, you go, oh, okay,
39:47
Speaker 2: here is a twenty twenty four.
39:50
Speaker 3: Let's just go with a Ford F one fifty.
39:56
Speaker 2: It's white, it's got this feature on the back. Now
40:01
Speaker 2: we decide make model a year and you look through registration.
40:07
Speaker 2: Remember every traffic stop license registration, that vehicle is registered
40:13
Speaker 2: to somebody nine guarantee. Then they get everybody in the
40:18
Speaker 2: area that has that vehicle and they start canvassing.
40:22
Speaker 7: That's how it goes down spot on, And I think
40:25
Speaker 7: you know one one thing this was reported yesterday by
40:28
Speaker 7: Matt Finn from Fox News who tracked down Arizona Department
40:33
Speaker 7: of Transportation spoke with officials at the City of Tucson
40:37
Speaker 7: and in Pima County about traffic cam locations and do
40:41
Speaker 7: they record. So when you see this big push for
40:45
Speaker 7: ring cameras, and I think that this is going to
40:47
Speaker 7: start to hit the media cycle pretty quickly, az dot
40:52
Speaker 7: is saying that they have cameras in the area, but
40:54
Speaker 7: they do not record. City of Tucson says it has
40:57
Speaker 7: traffic cameras that do not record, and p mccounty says
41:02
Speaker 7: that they have some that do and some that don't.
41:05
Speaker 7: So you know, we're in a scenario here where you
41:10
Speaker 7: see this reward go up and law enforcement asking for
41:13
Speaker 7: all of these videos for that span of time, and
41:16
Speaker 7: I'm going to say that it very likely has to
41:19
Speaker 7: do with trying to find a vehicle.
41:21
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we'll put Brian Fitzgibbons iker. We know that.
41:29
Speaker 3: Palazuelos was apprehended.
41:33
Speaker 2: That video guys was Fox ten, and that was Nancy
41:36
Speaker 2: Guthrie's vehicle being towed for evidence. That vehicle is going
41:39
Speaker 2: to be so important because if Nancy Guthrie was bleeding,
41:41
Speaker 2: we knows she was, There's no way they can get.
41:44
Speaker 3: Rid of that blood in that car. I don't care
41:45
Speaker 3: how hard they try.
41:47
Speaker 2: That said Palazuelli's Carlos Bellos. Willis was pulled over to
41:52
Speaker 2: taying question release. He had nothing to do with it.
41:55
Speaker 2: I believe he was identified from cell phone data that
41:59
Speaker 2: his was in and out of her neighborhood at various
42:03
Speaker 2: hours because he's a delivery person in that neighborhood, probably
42:07
Speaker 2: to her house, and that's why they zer wote in
42:10
Speaker 2: on him. They did not pull him over because he
42:12
Speaker 2: forgot to turn on his blinker. They pulled him over
42:15
Speaker 2: I believe because of a cell phone data.
42:17
Speaker 6: I believe that's correct too.
42:19
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't have first set of knowledge, but
42:21
Speaker 5: that's the things what we do in these type situations,
42:24
Speaker 5: we do tower dumps for the area around the crime scene,
42:28
Speaker 5: and then we look for all the phones and vehicles.
42:32
Speaker 5: You know, you've got to remember vehicles have cell phones
42:35
Speaker 5: in him now to the newer ones. Then we start
42:38
Speaker 5: going through all that data and figure out, okay, which
42:41
Speaker 5: ones are stationary during all this time. That's probably a
42:45
Speaker 5: neighbor or Nancy's phone. Now let's look at the ones
42:49
Speaker 5: that are moving in and out of that area and
42:52
Speaker 5: narrowed down on those. So I believe he was stopped
42:56
Speaker 5: and questioned because he was in the area and he
42:59
Speaker 5: is a delivery driver. I don't think he said he
43:02
Speaker 5: remembered to be in that area, but you know he's
43:05
Speaker 5: he's delivering all over the place. So they stopped him,
43:09
Speaker 5: talked to him, questioned him. They might even done a
43:11
Speaker 5: search at his residence. I know there was a search
43:14
Speaker 5: around the same time, but they've cleared him. But that's
43:17
Speaker 5: what they're doing. They're going through all this data trying
43:20
Speaker 5: to figure out who came in and who left around
43:23
Speaker 5: the time Nancy disappeared.
43:25
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about Nancy
43:28
Speaker 2: Guthrie's disappearance, please call one eight hundred two two five,
43:33
Speaker 2: five three two four one eight hundred two two five,
43:36
Speaker 2: five three two four, Or if you wish to remain
43:40
Speaker 2: anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven four six
43:45
Speaker 2: three five two zero eight eight two seven four six three,
43:50
Speaker 2: there is a one hundred thousand dollars reward.
43:55
Speaker 3: Good Night for him
44:00
Speaker 6: GI