Latest / Beyond our Stories / How Do We Know When It's Time to Let Go? | Beyond Our Stories with Jennifer Van Gessel
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- speaker-0: I used to sort of as a kid be scared of ghosts and things, but now I'll walk into an abandoned building in the dark and I'm not phased. I think the only thing that really frightens me is the thought of losing people close to me. I'm not really scared of ghosts or like demons or anything. I am scared of people, real people, people spreading hate and division and things like that and affecting the beautiful world and people that we have in it and it's just sad. speaker-1: Every person has a story. Some his stories make us laugh, some challenge us. speaker-0: Some stay with us long after they're over. speaker-1: Sometimes the most meaningful part of a story isn't the ending. speaker-0: It's the conversation that begins afterwards. speaker-1: Welcome to Beyond Our Stories. I'm Allie. speaker-0: I'm Stephanie. speaker-1: And today we are joined by Jennifer Van Gesel, an Australian writer, producer and director whose work often lives in the space between fear, grief, and the things we cannot fully explain. She wrote, Produce and Directed Waterhorse, her first narrative feature as a director. speaker-0: When people mysteriously vanish after wading into a remote lake, a paranormal investigator and an actress set out to document the disappearances. As the investigator begins to suspect the cases are connected to her mother's disappearance years earlier, their search for answers lead them to an unspeakable evil lurking beneath the lake's surface. We want to know more about how Jennifer came up with the idea for this movie, what is important for her in her own work, and who she is away from the movie industry. speaker-1: Jennifer, welcome to Beyond Our Stories. speaker-0: thank you. Thanks for having me. speaker-1: Yeah, before we talk about the movie Water Horse and start the conversation, when you take away writer, producer and director, who are you? speaker-0: Good question. I actually do like writing is such a big part of my life that sometimes it's really hard to separate from it. But outside of filmmaking, there's many, many things that I love and I just love generally love life and people and travel. I'm obsessed with planes like aviation. Like I fly. I can fly a small plane. I love football. So, you know, I'm yeah, like there's So many things, like I'm just a person, I guess, like everybody else. speaker-1: Okay, and you said that you that writing is a big part of your your life. and you first you are a writer and then realize that the producing is also important because it is very difficult to get your writing made by other producers, other directors. Hmm. What is it about writing that you could not let go of? speaker-0: I think the writing's just the part for me. Like I don't like to say things like it's like therapy, but it kind of is. It's like an escape. And ever since I was a little kid, like my mum will tell you that even at school I'd write stories that were outside of the box compared to everybody else, like from different perspectives. like we had to write a story about a shark, and I wrote it from the perspective of like being the shark not getting attacked by a shark and like I don't know like to me that's it's just fun and I love it and I like getting lost and being someone else and trying to think like somebody else. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. I totally understand. And also nowadays finding a the right producer and the right director for a script is very tough and it's very hard. Yeah, it is. We totally understand that as well because we do the same and and and for for me, for example, it's often the case that I have to direct our features by myself. Also I don't write I don't like directing, so Because b yeah, because sometimes finding a a a good director or a good storyteller is very hard if you have a specific vision and you want to stick to that and you can't let go of at that moment. So that's that happens with us also a lot. For example, we we made I Love You My Narcissus, the poster is behind me. yeah. And I had to direct it, but I'm happy about the result. but yeah, Stephanie knows that. speaker-0: Yeah. But how was that for you? 'Cause you also directed Water Horse, right? Yeah, I mean it's speaker-1: You you actually didn't want to direct first. speaker-0: I was gonna say, 'cause you sound just like me. I never aspired to be a director. I did a movie, my first feature I wrote and produced and I got a director and like you know, I'm not putting them down at all. It's just that I like they were about as green as me when we made that movie. And everyone said to me, Why didn't you just do it? And it's like I actually just never wanted to do it. But then, you know, when things go away that you don't like or you know, it didn't turn out how you wanted you go, well, maybe I should have done it, maybe I should have but like I don't know that I could have done any better. But with Waterhorse it was kinda like I did ask someone else to do it and they did say yes, but I feel like and this is no discredit to them at all, but I think a lot of people want to wait for a perfect scenario to make a movie. And I feel like that perfect scenario was never going to arrive. And I was like, I'll do it with what I have now. And I have to say it's the people around me encouraging me, saying, You can do it, you know, why don't you just give it a try? And I felt comfortable. I had actually directed a documentary in the past that had sold worldwide. And I did enjoy that process and I went, This can't be so different from that, even though it's not a true story. so I felt like a lot more comfortable doing Waterhorse and just seeing how I felt about directing from actually doing it rather than just guessing how I would feel about it. If that makes sense. Yes, totally. And how do you feel afterward now, after you had the experience of directing it? you know it's like I I feel like from this From the first day to the last day, which I think it's spanned a ridiculous amount of time because of, you know, we had a lot of things go wrong. We had COVID in the middle. it just nothing we joke that the film was cursed. Like it's about a curse and we joke that it was actually cursed. you know, as you're going along, doing that is dangerous kind of because you go, I've learnt so much by halfway through. If I went back and shot the first stuff. I could do it so much better now. I've learnt so much. But you just kinda gotta let it go and finish the movie. So and then by the end of the movie you look back and go, my god, the start is terrible. I've got to go back and sh reshoot things. And we actually did do some of that. But you know, it's just all learning and I think by the end I felt pretty confident and it but I wished I could have gone back and made the whole movie again at that point. speaker-1: This is actually a very interesting parallel with their story in Water Horse. Because for example, Diane refuses to give up searching for what happened to her mother. And you spent years refusing to give up on making this movie with barfires, COVID, and other setbacks that you had, what what you s what you said just now. Do you recognize any of yourself in in their story in in Diane and in her persistence? speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. I'm really stubborn. I think that's I think you guys probably know as a filmmaker you have to be a bit stubborn because it's hard to make a movie. People think it's easy till they go and do it and to get something finished that like costs money and you've had your main location burned down in a bushfire or the lake ch completely. you show up to a lake that you're gonna film at and it's completely changed because of a flood and there's no there used to be like a incline into the lake and now it's just a like drop off and you're like, well, we just can't film here and you've brought the cast and crew out and you know, it's just like you keep we just kept getting beaten down and just had to just drag ourselves up. But like I said, it was the people around, and the two ac two lead actors, Dean Kirwood and Lauren Grimson, And my sister who helped produce and the other producer Nita like and the post producer Rachel who did produce on and off in the thing. Like, it's the people like that that really just, you know, come on, we've gotta do it, we've gotta finish it. But yeah, it's a team thing. It's not just me. I think we were all a little bit like Diane, we were all obsessed with finishing. speaker-1: And and what was that moment that you that you couldn't use that location because of the flood? Because I read somewhere that you had personal memories in that on that lake. speaker-0: no, no, that was the the fire. That was like the place that got burnt down by the fire. So that year we had really, really bad bushfires in Australia, which happens every couple of years we have really horrific fires. and it was actually an old mining village that had been partially preser preserved, partially recreated. to be exactly like in the early you know, the settling days of Australia, which is only two hundred years ago. But it had an all like a realistic like an old mine shaft and like miners huts and a church. Like it had like it's like a whole little town. And they had it locked off so you it was a like a theme park now. So you could go in pan for gold and yeah, I took my nephews there to pan for gold and you know, but they shut it at night and they can keep p people out. So it was the perfect filming location and they had agreed to let us film there. and then it it burnt down. Like it was d absolutely devastating. speaker-1: That's very, very tough because during the production if you if you lo if you lose a location it it can affect the whole production very bad. So speaker-0: And it's also a pretty specific location as well. So Yeah, like there aren't just my old mining towns standing around all over the place. Like we were really lucky to find an alternative and it was quite far away. We had to drive out to the middle of nowhere and stay there, in a hotel. Well, it wasn't even a hotel, there isn't a hotel. but you know, like that again, it was just the team, we just stuck with it and we just sort of problem solved everything. And I'm also I'm also curious, how did you even came up with a story? Why did you want to tell this specific story? I'm like for some reason I'm really obsessed with shows like disappeared or like I like, you know, like they're like crime shows, but they're like people who just vanished into thin air or people who just like they're just there one day and gone and trying to solve the mystery. and I really I just can't really imagine what that would be like. But also my sister's partner's aunt told me when I moved to this area a story about the lake that she said there's like portals in the lake that connect to other lakes in Australia. So if you go in one o the lake here, you can show up in another lake in Australia and there's this it's goes back to like I guess the indigenous people and their beliefs and water spirits and I just found that intriguing and combining that with my interest and obsession with missing people. It's like, well, there you go, there's a story. That was the start of it, I guess. speaker-1: where where where does this this obsession to missing stories, missing people and horror thriller come from? Because you mainly focus on horror thriller or stories that people simply can't explain. speaker-0: Hm. I think 'cause it's so far from my daily life. I don't meet lots of bad people. I've been near death and I've been near tragedy. I've been yeah, like, you know, I was in Japan during the big earthquake and tsunamis a couple of years ago. Well it was more than that now. but like, you know, 'cause I lived there for a while and I witnessed all that and everything and I've been around stuff but Like I don't really meet evil people, I think, or like don't experience murder or, you know, aliens or demons, whatever you want to call it. it's so far from my own reality that it's just fun to explore that on film and think from a perspective of somebody that isn't me and that I can't even really relate to. I mean, I can always relate on some level. But I mean, my mum didn't go missing, thank God. But like, you know, I try and think what would it be like if your loved one went missing and they've just vanished into thin air and yeah, it's just trying to imagine what that's like. It's interesting to me, I guess. speaker-1: The movie itself has as multiple stories running at the same time. And for example for Diane is the main story is finding out what happened to her mother and why she disappeared and where she is. Do you see her search as being driven more by love, grief, obsession or just the need for an answer? speaker-0: With Diane when the mum went missing, I imagine grief and love, like you know, losing a loved one and the grief associated with that would have been the first stage, but the obsession would come the longer you go on without having answers. Like I said, I watch a lot of shows about that and I think every single person in those shows will say they would rather know and it'd be bad news, like they would rather know they're dead and where they are and what happened than just not know it all. And I think the obsession to just know the answers in the end, I mean, of course, like, yeah, initially it starts from the grief, but then it just over like, you know, 20 years it becomes an obsession. So like I said, I put myself in that position. And I feel like if that happened to my mother or my sister or father or brother, I wouldn't give up. either. I would be exactly the same. I would wanna know till the day I die what happened to them. So speaker-1: Yeah. Okay, that's that's very interesting because I I I'm curious to know for you, with what you said, is not knowing can be harder than knowing something pain painful. speaker-0: I think not knowing's worse because it's like I already have trouble sleeping, so imagine every night trying to go to sleep thinking o in your head just over and over what could have happened, all the could have's, all the what ifs. Like you know, even if it's bad, even if it's been a death or a murder, you can move on and when you lay down at night you you know, maybe one night a week you might think man, like I missed them or something like that. But you're not laying down every night going, What the hell happened? Like you've you've got your answers and I mean we like I know people who have died and yes, it catches you sometimes and you think about them and you get upset. But it over time, you know, it heals a little bit and you can sort of think about other things. But if you didn't have the answer, I just feel like that's constantly it's not going away. It's just haunting you forever. So that's how I I mean it hasn't happened to me. So I luckily touch wood. speaker-2: Ha ha. speaker-0: And I'm also curious to know like how you prepared the story. Like how how did you research it? How do you put the different puzzle pieces together? Yeah, so like I mean, it's really easy when you're the creator of a story to put all the pieces together. some people have watched Waterhorse and not understood how things connected and I mean maybe that's on me because I really didn't spoon feed a lot of it. I didn't spell it out. I think if you watch it probably like three times you'll get it, how it all links together. But, you know, I've read people that totally got everything and it's like it was n no drama for them at all. But I get that some people don't really like to have to think so much when they watch movies. I do. So yeah, I had a lot of fun piecing all those doing the puzzle, but I'm doing it backwards. It's really easy when you know and you know the answers, like you know the truth. So it was just like finding different ways to, you know, communicate what was happening with the water horse and the mythology and showing every side of it and using the like like I said, the true myth. Like I don't want to say it's true because it is a myth, but using that with multiple scenarios of what could happen if that were a thing and that there was another dimension under the water. So the rules of that dimension, how does it operate in time, you know? so like there's just yeah, like I mean it was just fun inventing all that. I think me and my twin sister were just we had we're driving to my grandma's which is a five hour drive. It's Australia and you guys in Germany, it's another big country. You know what that's like. And we just like talked and figured it all out basically and then I wrote it all down and yeah, it's I mean I love doing that stuff. So to me it's yeah, it's no draw, it's easy. speaker-1: You mentioned that you had difficulties finishing the movie with COVID, pushfire, flood and ev and many, many other things. How did you know whether you are being persistent or you can simply refuse to let go? speaker-0: Yeah, I mean like I don't ever really start things and not finish them, which I think is a good quality for a micro budget filmmaker. yeah, like I said, it just goes back to that stubbornness as well. But also like when you have so many people like I do wanna say again, Lauren and Dean and my sister and Nita, the I think that group especially, we all really, really just wanted to finish it. We'd put a lot of thought and time into it and you know, I just think none of us could really let it just taper off. But the actors were a big part of it 'cause I'd maybe go off with another project and they'd be like, Come on, we have to finish this. We have to do it. So like I can't take all the credit for that. But yeah, I definitely am someone who finishes what they start. So speaker-1: And if you were Diane, would you do the same? Yes. speaker-0: Absolutely. yeah, I I do know I maybe wouldn't walk into the lake, but I don't wanna s didn't want to spoil it. But yeah, like I don't think I would probably do it by that point though. Like if I lost my mum, like maybe I would but that's maybe the only decision that I'm like but I I I feel like, you know, writing the story it's like they're at you're at the point where it's like, what else can I do? I like there's absolutely nothing else to do. It's yeah, now or never kind of thing. And she chooses to cross the line, but she also has Oz, you know, holding her hand in that moment and doing it with her. So yeah, I mean I think I would yeah, probably. Like I I definitely would go and do all the investigations because I I do that stuff for fun anyway. speaker-1: I have a question regarding what you did regarding the scene you just mentioned where when when she goes into the watcher and ask comes and takes her hand, because I have a big question, but I will ask that after the podcast. So we don't just spoil it for the audience, they should watch it and find find out by themselves. yeah, before we continue, I want to say to the listeners and viewers: if this conversation has made you Curious about this story we've been talking about, you can watch Waterhorse in the US and Canada on Aleph Cineestream www.acstream dot com. Aleph Cine Stream is or created a steering platform for independent movies from around the world. And when we say create it, we really mean it. We're not trying to build the biggest catalogue possible. speaker-0: We look for movies that have something to say and stories that, for example, can surprise you, move you, challenge you, or stay with you longer after they're over. And Water Horse definitely is a movie that can stay with you for a longer period of time. And that's also why we decided to invite Jennifer today and talk about it a little bit more today. speaker-1: Today. I personally like to go beyond the movie for a moment because there is something underneath both Diane's story and your experience of making it that I find fascinating. The tension between persistence and letting go. Because in the story, Diane had many problems, many difficulties during the investigation. The police arrest her, speaker-0: Maybe don't spoil it too much, Dolly. speaker-1: I know I know just just just just saying just saying some some thoughts. I I won't spoil it. But she ha she had a lot of a lot of difficult difficulties. So how is that for you? speaker-0: I think like you said something bit like letting go. I think if I I like again, I don't want to spoil it, but it is a little bit of a tragic story. and like I guess the difference between a happy ending and a tragic ending in this scenario. Well the ultra happy ending would be her mum shows up and she's fine and they just carry on and but in reality, you know The happier ending that would make it not such a tragedy would be if Diane could just move on and obviously in life it is good if you are able to do that. But I guess people like like I said, I see myself in her in that that I would really struggle to move on. I just know it. Like I know I would probably go the same route and let it either just destroy me and never find the answer or I get like die just still obsessing about it. But the best thing obviously for anyone to do would be to let it go, try and move on. But again, there's those nagging questions that I don't know how you completely speaker-2: Just speaker-0: you know, how do you just forget so yeah. I mean that's one of the things watching the movie, you can think, what would I do? Yeah. Yeah, and I think it also makes sense for her to keep on going because there's always new information coming in. I mean obviously 'cause she's also looking for it, but there's always something new to like obsess about, basically. speaker-1: And often the problem is th that's not a problem actually. But we we we celebrate people who are never giving up, which is amazing because for me, for example, giving up is no is is not an option. Never and I would I would go to the end of something to to finish it. But the only catch there is that I believe we don't talk enough and think enough what persistence and not letting go can cause us. speaker-2: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: Absolutely. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. And sometimes I think about like, you know, filmmakers, like it is just such a tough industry, right? Like there's so many people trying to write or trying to make films and it's very hard to make a living. It's very hard to make money off of this stuff, this creative stuff that we do. And I mean like My parents would probably say, you know, you put so much time and energy into this. I've they say I've never seen someone work so hard and make so little money. and like, you know, I laugh about it, but it is true and it's like I'm in my forties now and it's sort of like, Well, how long do you keep, you know, persisting and being stubborn and fighting for that because you love but I think you guys would know considering that your filmmakers that it's not something you really choose. You kind of just have to do it. So and in my career I've had enough success that it's kind of cruel in a way because it keeps me going. It's like just when I go, man, I really should do something else. I get some success that encourages me and says, No, you you need to stick with this. But I mean, I'm glad I did because I am actually starting to make money out of it and Things are going a lot better now. But I'm you you guys know it's really tough. And it I I don't know why that's where I connected it to. because I guess in my life that's the most I can relate that situation to. Persistence can burn you out and it can hurt you a lot. And if your mother went missing and you dedicated your life to finding her, I'm sure that that would have to like really eat at you like just eat you away over time. So absolutely. speaker-1: That's very interesting because because also what you said is when you are the writer, you have the full control of the story, of the characters, what they do, how they they develop and and everything. And when it comes to directing and during the production, for for Water Horse, for example, you had this situation. There are a lot of unexpected events, unexpected issues, many, many things that happened during the production. which you don't have control over. Has directing changed your relationship with writing and with this with with having control over the characters, the situations in the movie or in the story and and and all that? speaker-0: I don't think when I write I still just write what I want. But then when I start being the director, I just sort of that version of me is able to accept that maybe it's not gonna be what the writer version of me wanted. it's compromising and being realistic. But yeah, it's it does change, I guess, when you're writing, you're like thinking more about how would I shoot this scene. But I try not to like really overthink that because a lot of the things I write I still don't intend to direct them. for example, I have a script right now with a director in the US who's going to make one of the films I wrote in LA in a couple of months with a really good budget and everything. And I mean, I have no control over that now. It's like it's his. It's I think he's a he he gets it. It's gonna be great. But like I mean I'm not always writing thinking I'm gonna direct. So it doesn't really change the writing, but like I mean, if I know I'm directing it, like the last one, the feature I filmed last year, which is in post, it's nearly finished, it's called Find My Bones. I knew I was going to be directing that and I did absolutely change my approach to the writing just 'cause I knew what the budget was gonna be and I was thinking like how am I gonna do this? So Yeah, in that way. But I mean it's a case by case speaker-1: And is the the new the new movie Find My Bones is also a thriller horror? speaker-0: Yeah, it's a it's another psychological horror. It's I must say it's quite quirky and weird. It's sort of it actually takes that whole cabin in the woods trope and tries to do something a bit different with it. It's is sort of a a deep examination of lesbian relationships and how society perceives them and judges them and it's it's kind of like using horror to do that. It's hard to explain very quickly. but I think there's definitely not a film that I've seen like it. And I think there's it's definitely gonna find an audience. So and it's not found footage. So it was, you know, shot the traditional way with a bit more money, quite a bit more money than Waterhorse. And yeah, it was a great experience and I'm really excited a lot of like a lot of distributors and sales agents and such are very interested in it. So I'm sure it's gonna get out there into the world and get seen. So yeah. Can't wait. Sounds exciting. Like we have to stay on the lookout for it. Yeah. Yeah, I'll send you guys a copy when it's done. speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. We we'd be very happy to watch it. But what interests me the most now with what with everything what we said is you make movies to frighten other people. And I'm very curious to know what frightens you the most? speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: I you know, I think the only thing that really frightens me is the thought of losing people close to me. I'm I'm not really scared of ghosts or like demons or anything. I am scared of people, real people, politicians. speaker-2: Huh. speaker-0: I'm I mean I'm scared of like people spreading hate and division and things like that and affecting the beautiful world and people that we have in it and it's just sad. But I like I said, I have nephews that I have a twin sister and they're her kids and I just kinda wonder what kind of world they're gonna grow up to have and it it that scares me. but yeah I don't I used to sort of as a kid be scared of ghosts and things, but now I'll walk into an abandoned building building in the dark and I'm not phased. I just did a recce for the next feature. Two weeks last week in a abandoned old lunatic asylum and I just went off by myself and you know, it's peaceful and it's kinda nice and doesn't scare me anymore. So yeah. Yeah, but I can see what you're describing. I actually had a similar th a thought yesterday 'cause I'm also watching a lot of true crime. And I then also thought, you actually have to be more scared of existing people, people that are living right now and having influence on other people instead of something mysterious or ghosts and other things. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel bad. Is there maybe one or two things that you feel like you really learned by working on Water Horse? Yeah, I mean I learned just a lot about directing and working with actors. I was very lucky with the actors that I had. They're both quite talented. and I think Just yeah, there was a range of actors of at different levels because we had such a low budget that, you know, you we didn't hit casting directors or anything. There was a big difference between the experienced actors working with them and the actors that this was their first movie, you know, and just the different approaches to to talking to them. And I think Yeah, like casting is just like yeah, like the next movie I went, I'm just casting actors that are gonna make me look like a great director, basically, because if you do it in the casting then on set it's a breeze. And I learnt that with Dean and Lauren, like they were perfectly cast and just made me look good, really easily. so yeah, it just stuff like that, I guess, just learning about filmmaking and Trying to bring it on to the next one and just yeah, do better. Mm-hmm. And were there conversations on set about the topic that just stayed in your mind? we had so many conversations, I think. it's weird because Lauren is actually nothing like Diane. but when she would become Diane, she kinda scared me. 'Cause if you know her, she's the like warmest, friendliest person. But yeah, we did have we had a lot of We did actually have a pretty creepy thing happen. when we were filming in an old miner's hut and it is actually it is a real miner's hut from like, you know, a cup like over a hundred years ago in Germany. That doesn't sound very old, but to us that is old. And we were filming and I have this on video actually, and like it's I was holding the camera 'cause a lot of the time I just filmed myself. And you see like the figure of a man in a like a hat, like a w an old Akubra, which is a type of Aussie, you know, cowboy type hat, standing behind Dean. And we watched that back while we were there and I showed them and actually they were sleeping there. And like I guess we've just like the whole time we were filming, we're like, did we what has come along with us on this film like it really did feel like some presence or something. So like I don't know if that's the kind of conversation, but that that's what comes into my head. Like we had some weird things like that happen. so yeah we talked about this stuff a lot. do we believe in ghosts? Do we believe in spirits? And also we had Poppy Mac who is an Aboriginal elder. Talk about the water spirits and I mean he's a hundred percent what he's saying is pretty much a hundred percent what he believes, and what his people believe. it wasn't even really acting. So, you know, that made us think a lot and talk a lot and learn about, you know, their their belief system and it's quite interesting. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: And is there is there a a question about your own life that you have had to accept, you may never get an answer to? speaker-2: Yeah, I guess like that's the speaker-0: I guess. speaker-2: answer. sometimes speaker-0: Sometimes I wonder what I did wrong with some people, like some relationships or friendships I should say, more like I guess like they'll never tell me why they behaved how they did or why things went the way they did. And it sometimes it really does keep me awake at night. Like, what did I actually do wrong? Like I wish they'd just tell me, you know, I do get stuck on that a lot. 'Cause I care a lot about the people in my life and so when and I I really probably am a people pleaser, like I try to be good to everyone and I think I have a kind heart and everything. So when I upset someone or someone really doesn't like me suddenly, I really wonder what I've done because I never would try I would never purposely, you know, be mean or rude to somebody. So what they act like I have. So like, you know, that might be the only questions I'm like I mean, yeah, I I would love to know a lot of things that I'll probably never know, but in my own personal life that's probably the only one. speaker-1: Yeah, we are slowly moving towards the ending of this episode and I'd like to know more about you, Jennifer, personally. Not about the movie or the stories in the movie or what you what you make or so. When you are not writing, not producing, not directing or not thinking about the next story or the next project, what brings you back to yourself? speaker-0: I think like spending time with my nephews is 'cause I don't have kids of my own. they've just changed my life in this way that you know, sometimes I come home and I just go and sit with them and talk to them and listen to them and it's just the nicest feeling in the world and you don't care about anyone else or anything else and I don't think I was cut out to be a mum, but I that relationship with them is just everything to me and in a way I hate it and I say to my sister all the time, I wish you didn't make these things that I care about more than anything. 'cause now I worry about them, you know. But at the end of the day, I think family and friends is everything to me and just spending time with people. And I've been really lucky with my family and just yeah, I just wanna spend time with them and You know, have fun and I love yeah, traveling with them or whatever, just enjoying life. Sounds nice. It's but pretty boring for a horror filmmaker to say that, probably like I don't know. But like I said, it's the horror is all for the movies. Life is you know, I try and I think we're pretty lucky down here in Australia and we have a pretty good life, so yeah. speaker-1: We have always a a signature question that we ask every single one of our guests on Beyond Our Stories. And the answer is always interesting to this question. and we are we we are very much looking forward to your answer. Yeah. is there a story or a movie or even a personal experience that's changed how you see people? speaker-0: How I see people. I don't I think like there's there's movies that change how I see like life and the world. I've I'm a big fan of like David Lynch and like Lars von Truer and people like that. But I guess I saw the film Melancholia by Lars von Truer and that completely changed me. I don't know if it changed how I saw people, but it changed my whole outlook. on everything like I suddenly felt like it's bad. Like it was super depressing. But I just thought like, why does anything matter? Like people are doing all of these things and why does it matter? Because we are all literally just gonna die and yeah, it's it it was a really but my uncle said to me, That might be true. Like and I it it made me decide that I didn't think there was a life after death or anything like that. And I don't know why the movie 'cause it doesn't say that in the movie, it just that's just the effect it had on me. Like, but my uncle said to me something like, you know, you're so lucky to have a life. Like, it's actually a lot harder than you think, and it's more of a miracle than you think. So so what if you get this is all you get and then that's it. So what? Like at least you got that. And yeah, sort of snapped me out of it, but it came from the movie, but him saying that also changed how I looked at things and yeah I guess that movie had a massive impact on me and I I've never watched it again but I loved it. So I don't know that it changed my perspective on people, but I guess yeah everything. Just everything. You yourself privately also watch a lot of horror movies? hell yeah of course Yeah yeah I love I love horror movies. I love found footage movies. I watch absolutely any found footage movie, I will watch it. I don't care if it was made for ten dollars. I just something about it. I I think I mentioned that I lived in Japan. I saw a film called Naroi by Koji Shiraishi, who made in his early career made a bunch of really no budget found footage films and those changed my life watching those, the vibe he captures and it absolutely inspired me to make Water Horse. So if you are a f fan of like horror or found footage, I would absolutely say go and watch Noroi, which is the curse, Okoto, which is Occult. And yeah, like also another Japanese film called Mario Biro is Also like it's actually by Takashi Shimizu. I think like those are my Japanese horror is like next level. But yeah, I love any horror, any psychological horror. There's a lot of good Australian psychological horror as well. So yeah, I mean I can't get enough of it. I love it. speaker-1: Okay, that's very interesting. yeah, Jennifer, thank you so much for being so open and for taking us beyond the making of Water Horse. We began with Diane's need to understand what happened, but we ended somewhere much more personal. With the things we hold on to, the things we eventually release and the difficult work of knowing the difference. speaker-0: Waterhorse is available to watch on Alice in a stream, it's at acminastream dot com. And to everyone listening and watching, thank you so much for joining us on Beyond Our Stories, where movies open the door, but the conversations are continuing about something much larger than this. speaker-1: If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd really appreciate it if you follow the podcast, left a review, and shared this conversation with someone who might need to hear it. Every story begins on the screen, but it continues within us. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next Thursday and beyond our stories.