Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / Midday Missing - Interview with Heather Shtuka - Mother of Ryan

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Midday Missing - Interview with Heather Shtuka - Mother of Ryan · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody in Happy Monday. I hope you're having a
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: wonderful Monday and that you had a good weekend, because
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: weekends are the time that prepare a for manic mondays.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So I am Terry True Crime and welcome to Midday Missing,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: where we highlight current missing person cases that need more attention. Now,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Midday Missing is part of TCWT Media, and like I said,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: we are dedicated to raising awareness for missing person cases
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: every Monday and Wednesday at noon Central. Now today, guys,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: we are profoundly honored to welcome Heather Stuka, the resilient
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: mother of Ryan who went missing in Canada. Heather's unwavering
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: love and determination in the face of heartache, I mean
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: it has inspired me and I think it inspires everyone
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: who hears the story, and her story is a powerful
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: reminder of the strength found even in the darkest moments.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So in today's episode, we're going to listen to Heather
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: as she shares her experience, her hopes for finding answers,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and the ongoing fight to bring Ryan home. Heather, thank
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: you so much for joining us and allowing us to
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: share Ryan's story and the journey to find him.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me yeah, I.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Mean talking to you on the phone beforehand. I have
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: told so many people the last couple of days about
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: the story and just how inspiring you are in everything
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: that y'all have done for your son. I mean, I
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: just I can't imagine what I would do, and I
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: really hope I would be like you.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: That's very kind, Thank you.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: So, I know, we talked about describing Brian, and we
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: talked about it's just a bunch of adjectives and things.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So I wanted I thought, maybe it'd be better if
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: you could share some memorable moments or characteristics about Ryan
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: to help us learn more about him, because I love
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: the fact that he teased his siblings, just gonna tell you,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I found that amazing.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't just siblings. I mean he had that.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: My husband's Scott is a huge person who teases my
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: dad is and so I think Ryan came by it
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: very naturally. I think what happened is that the student
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: became the master after a while, and he was very
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: good at it, you know, just very good kid. And
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: like we had talked about, using all these adjectives to
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: describe your child are just they could be described to anybody,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: but you know. I remember he used to do it
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: all the time to the girls. He would use to
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: tease them all the time. If you know, they were
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: about to watch something that they really wanted to watch
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: on TV. Suddenly the the TV would would turn off,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: and then he can't find the remote, you know, that
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: sort of thing, and just the sheer panic and little
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: girls like what, like, this is the show I've been
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: waiting for all week? And he's like, oh, I just
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: don't know where it is. And then suddenly, after you know,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: very some intense moments, they find it. They'd be almost
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: in tears. And then I don't think he'd quite recognize
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: that it was going to get that far. He just
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: thought it was funny, right, and then he'd feel bad
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: and he's like, you know, this show is stupid, but
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I'll watch it with you, that
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: sort of thing, right, So like they're not even sure
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: what's happened have they? You know, they've been tortured, but
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: now they've you know, had this great reward at the end.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: He was kind of like that, or he'd with my mom.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: He'd tease her. You know, I remember when he was
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: like seven or eight, we were we were in Walt
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Disney World, and we shared two rooms and he was
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: sharing it with my mom and dad, and so he
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: was in the one room with my mom and she's like,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: it was so cold, Ryan, you stole all the blankets,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: he goes, He goes, can't you just use your uh,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: you know, pull up your wrinkles and use them? And
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: you would think that would be awful, Like you know
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: anybody looking at that, I'd be like, why, like your grandmother,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And but he'd have this little like side smirk and
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: he'd sing it to her with such and she'd be like,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: looking at him, and then she'd start laughing because she
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: knew he wouldn't. He's not being milicious, certainly not being rude.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: He would pick and choose who he would do that with,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: so it was only within the family unit. He was
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: not that kind that would take it out on the road.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Oh but I love that because I'm the one who'd
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: have came back with the sassy comment, Well, you know,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you're right, and I'm going to use my wrinkles and
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I'm going to take all those blankets and you can
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: deal with it.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I think that's probably what she did.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So can you tell us first I want to know,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: how did you hear about Ryan going missing?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We have been so where we are it's nine and
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: a half hours from where Ryan was, and so we
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: had been all day at this ring yet, So it's
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: if you're not familiar. Most people aren't in the US.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: But it is a game primarily paid played by women,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: and instead of a hockey stick, they have just a
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: stick with no end on it, and they played with
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: rings rather than pucks. It's very competitive. It's a very
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: fast paced game, and so both of our daughters played.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Our oldest daughter was very competitive in this, and so
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: they were having at tournaments all day, and we have
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: been back and forth. It was if you've ever been
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: a parent in any kind of sport where you're having
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: to go to a tournament all weekend, it's not close
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: enough to be like an easy commute. Times are so different.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: So we were back and forth, and I remember finally
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: arriving home about nine o'clock at night, and I was
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: sort of catching up one of my friends whose daughter played,
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: but she wasn't able to attend, so I was kind
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: of going back and forth texting with her, probably plaining
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: about how the girls played. I don't I don't. I
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: don't know what. But I had this text that came
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: through on my phone that was from James and it
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: came across as Jimmy James because that's what my husband
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: had nicknamed him at a young age. And so I
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: got this text and I didn't even really look at it.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: It wasn't something that I thought, uh, it didn't trigger
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: a concern. I was just I wonder what he's going
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: to show me about what him and Ryan were up
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: because they were together up in sun Peaks. And so
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I waited a couple of minutes, uh, and then opened
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: up the text, and as I'm reading it, the text
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: basically said, Hey, Heather, Ryan didn't come home last night
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: and didn't show up to work today. We've called the RCMP,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: which is our local law enforcement, the Royal Mountain Canadian Police,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: and so he's like, you should be hearing from them,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: and I just thought, like, all, I'm reading it, but
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I can't it's registering it, but I think I'm reading
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: it too fast for my brain to fully comprehend. And
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: at the same time, I recognize that this is an
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: important text and I'm trying to also tell Scott, and
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: he does not get anything of what I'm saying. And
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: he's like, what can you like, what is that? Tell
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: me again? And I'm like, I can't. I physically cannot
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: tell you again. I don't think this these worlds will
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: ever come out of my mouth again in the same way.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: So I had to show him the phone. And you know,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I had said, my husband is like the anchor and
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: our family. I think I'm the spine. I think he's
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the anchor, although those are mixed metaphors, but he's got
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: broad shoulders and it feels like he holds up the
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: weight of the world, especially holds all of our family
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: on those shoulders as broadly as he can. And I
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: just remember in that when he read that text, I
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: just saw this shell like this, you know, it was
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: almost like the exhaling of breath, and it's almost like
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: he crumbled. He didn't, And you know, and I have said,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: you know, there's lots of things in life when you've
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: been married. This will be our thirtieth year. We're going
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: into our thirtieth wedding anniversary, and there's there's lots of
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: things throughout a marriage that you will have done that
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: you know, as either an unintentionally or intentionally mean to
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: the person that you're with, and there's lots of words
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: that you can't take back. And I think that in
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: that moment, I you know, those words hurt my husband
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: than probably more than anything else that had been said
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: in our marriage. That's sure.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm going to I'm going to just
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: have to say. I also think as a mom, those
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: are not words that we ever think we're going to read.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: So how could I mean my thought my brain would
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: instantly say nope, nope, blocking that out. And it's something
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I just think it wouldn't process for me. So I
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: totally can understand that. And I'm sure you go into
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: shock immediately.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I did. I was. I didn't process it. I had
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: one daughter was coming up the stairs. One daughter was
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: coming down the stairs, and they're just they're taking it
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: all in and Scott calls the police. I'm just sitting there.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I finished talking to James. I called him to see
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: if I could get a better sense, and there really wasn't.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: I couldn't understand it. No more information was really given
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: besides what was offered in the text. And Scott's like,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: we're leaving, we're gonna come up to We're gonna drive
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: throughout the night to go to sun Peaks.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: And he.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Hung up the phone and then went into the garage
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: and was sort of getting things. And I just stood
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: there and I'm like, okay, well we're leaving. What do
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I need? What do you pack for this? What? I
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: don't know? How long do I think I'll be gone?
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Like how long will this take? That's and it was
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: just like it was in a constant thing. And in
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: that moment, my seventeen year old daughter Jordan went upstairs,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: she got a bag, she started packing stuff in my
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: other one, Juliana, She's hanging onto our dog, Oscar. And
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: you know, if any dog could absorbed everything in this world,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: that dog was taking it that particular night. And she's
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: just sitting there. She was twelve at the time, or
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: almost twelve, and you know, Jordan's packing, Juliana is lying
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: on the on the bed and you could just you
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: can feel it. And I think in that moment it
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: was like, whew, Okay, if Scott's the anchor, this is
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I'm the spine. I'm on the backbone in this family
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: and I need to pull myself up from wherever it's
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: going to be. And I lie to them. I'm like,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: you know what, I'm sure he's just with another girl.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: He's found somebody. He just didn't come home. And we
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: all knew it was a lie. But I think in
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: that moment, you were willing to accept whatever lie can be,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: just put off on the truth. And from that moment
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, you know, what's going to be fine,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for packing. You know, Grammy's going
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: to be over here shortly. It's going to be fine.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: We're going to be back and boy or boy, your
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: brother's going to be in so much trouble when we
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: get up there, that sort of thing, and it was shock.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I think we you know, we've operated on shock for
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: the first three or four days. I mean, and I.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Don't know if I would have called it a lie,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I would have think that maybe very wishful, that hoping
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: because you don't want to accept reality. So I don't
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: know if I call that a lie or is just
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a coping mechanism to be able to get through.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the last time you talked to Ryan?
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, actually it was the fourteenth, It was a Valentine's Day,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: and you know he didn't talk to us. He texted,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Scottenham talked, Scottenham texted if I wanted to get a
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: hold of him, you know, he was almost twenty one,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So is he texting his mother unless he needs something? No,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: And you know, you text him and he'd respond, but
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: you know it would take some time. The only way
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I could actually get an immediate response is if I
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: DMed him on Instagram and sent him something to do
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: with dogs, and then immediately he'd be back. And I'm like,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: why are you up so early? Like it's nine thirty here,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: but it means it's eight thirty year time with the
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: time change, Like why He's like, oh, I don't want
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: to get in the habit of sleeping in And he
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: would get it, but only respond to like it like
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: something funny. Otherwise he's you know, he's not interested in it.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: But this particular time, it was Valentine's Day and for
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: some reason he was. We got him on the phone
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: in every single one of us, even the girls, had
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: a chance to talk to him on Valentine's Day, and
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: that was unusual. And so, you know, I Happy Valentine's Day,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: love bug? What are you doing? What's you know, what's
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: been going on? And he had that conversation, and the
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: girls came on and and you know what twenty year
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: old really wants to talk to is you know, eleven
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: year old sister. But he was, he was game foured.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: They had that ability to have that one last conversation,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and for that, I'll always be grateful because you never
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: know when that last moment's going to be.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Oh that, oh that just yeah. So tell us how
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Ryan wound up at sun Peaks working at a ski resort,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: because I love the support that you were telling me
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and about what you did, because I think so many
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: parents struggle with that.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, it was his twentieth birthday. I I
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: was working and normally we always do something for his
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: birthday since the kids were a little ill, used to
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: always take them out for lunch, and so this particular time,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I was not gonna be home for supp where I was,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I was working my shift, and so I took him
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: out for lunch, got him his I think his Saint
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Patrick's day shooter shot and green beer, and so he
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: was sitting there. I'm like, okay, so tell me what's
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: going on. So what are your plans? Just trying to
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: have you know, an adult conversation with children is not
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: necessarily easy. It's it's that fine line of trying to
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: decide if you're asking to criticize or asking, because that's
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: what grown ups do when they talk to one another.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And I think we were just.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Agenda what's the agenda questions?
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And so it was like, this is what normal people
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: actually do when they're out together. Adults usually talk to
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: one another. So Ryan had graduated when he was eighteen.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: He had done really well at school. He was I
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: always say he was I don't want to say lazy,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: but you know, things came easy to him, so at
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: school he would put in them. I don't want to
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: say bare minimum, but I think I feel like it
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: was the bare minimum. I think he just did whatever
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: he had and yet he was rewarded with high marks.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: And I always worried that he would struggle. And I said,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: my fear is Ryan, that you will go through like
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: thinking that things will be easy because it came to
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: you easily, and that's not true. And if you don't
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: have the work ethic or the ethic behind it to
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: do put in the hard work, you're going to find
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: life is going to be not as easy as you
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: thought it was going to be it's going to be
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: a lot harder. So he was like, yeah, and you know,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it went in one ear without
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the other, as do all lessons, right, So he had
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: taken a year off. He didn't know what he wanted
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: to do, and so he went to work with the
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: company that my husband worked for. He was going to
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: do labor, did construction, was making good money and and
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: did well at it. And I thought, okay, well this
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: will give you an idea of whether you want to
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: work out in a trade or if that's not your thing,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: maybe that will help define or refine your your search
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: and you'll look at something in school. So he did
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: a year of that and then he said, yeah, I'm
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: gonna I'm going to go to school. So he went
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: to school and he was majoring in science and then
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: he did really well in his first year. And then
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: at that time he's like, I don't I don't want
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: to keep spending money that we have for school if
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm going to do afterwards. I
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: don't like, do I get a science degree? And what
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: am I? What am I going to do with that after?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: What interests me? Like? Okay, fairly matured decision and then
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: that particular time, so we're out for his birthday lunch
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, so what do you what do you
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: think you want to do next? And he's like and
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: he had this sort of look on his face like
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: he was hesitant, and he said, I was thinking about
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: spending a season in this winter at a ski resort.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: And he had that sort of hesitancy like he was waiting.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: It was expectant, like like what is she going to say?
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: And you know, I mean I could have said a
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: lot of things. I could have said, like you're not
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: a professional snowboarder, so like, what do you think you're
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: going to do? Is this a career that you're going into?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Like is this what you're going to do? Why would you?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Why would you go from twenty three dollars an hour
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: to eleven dollars and forty seven ceys? That makes me
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: like I could have done and said all of those things.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: A lot of them may have made sense logically, but
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: the look in his face was kind of like and
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like he was asking for permission because he
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: didn't need that. He was old enough not to have
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: to ask for something like what your Blessing wanted to
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: do yes, and so I just looked at him and
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: he had that sort of expectant look on his face,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: like he was hazardant, and in that moment, I it
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: is probably the one of the proudest moments as a parent.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I said, tell me more sounds exciting anymore. And I
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: will forever be grateful that I said that, because I
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know I could have said it, and
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: he might probably would have gone anyways. But to see
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: that that light in his eyes shine, even though it
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: cost us everything for him to go cost me everything,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad that I did it, because that light
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: just Sean and he was excited, and he's like, well,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about doing this. I'm gonna go with James,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: his friend that he's known since high school. I'm gonna
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: we're gonna go. We're gonna do this. Okay, where are
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: you gonna go? What are you gonna do? And so
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: you just sort of explained that he wanted to spend
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: a season, and he finally narrowed it down between two
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: and then he ended up getting offered a position same
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: with James at some peak ski resort in British Columbia,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: right outside Kamblops and that's where he he was getting
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: ready to go, and he left December first, twenty seventeen.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think his parents it is so hard
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: because you know, we've got to quickly decide what our
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: words are and we've got to be careful to choose them.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: And I agree. My first response would have been like,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: what you know? So, I mean that's what I said.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: You just amazed me because I would hope I would
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: have said that, but I could just see me going,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: what have you lost your mind? You know? But I but,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: like you said, the light in his eyes in seeing
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: you do that as a mom, that is the best
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: thing to see as a parent, you know, with our
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: children when they get older.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think our job isn't to diminish their dreams.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's times where we have to
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: infuse a sense of reality in there, right, what's logical.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: But I don't think it is within our bandwidth to
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: deny children the opportunity to explore life on their own.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, And he sounded so irresponsible. So he wasn't
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: asking you to pay his way to go do this.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: He was going to go work own his his own
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I think that also says so much
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and how responsible.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And I appreciated that, considering we had saved money for
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: his education and for him not to go through and
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: do the remaining three years because he didn't want to
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: just spend money even though it was ours, which is
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: you know, made moments. He's spent it in other ways.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it's just not this particular right now.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Had Ryan ever done a disappearing act gone missing? I mean,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: as responsible as he was, I can't imagine that he had.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: But was that something he had ever done before.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: No, you know what, we've we've been blessed. All three
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: of our kids really have caused no cause for concern.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: They've they've always been really well rounded, respectful in the individuals.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: We never had to worry about the high school times
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: where you worried that they weren't going to be home
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: or that they would followed the curfew, not that we
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: really had much. There was a lot of that respect
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: that came back and forth, and so we didn't have
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: to worry about that. So he'd never like in high school,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: if he was going out, we knew where he was,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: probably because we drove him. He didn't get his license
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: until he was eighteen and a half, and his friends
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: would But they were all such a responsible group. I
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: was so surprised. They'd always set up something so if
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: they needed, you know, to get a drive somewhere to
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: get picked up, they'd always have somebody. One of the
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: parents would be driving, one of the parents would be
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: picking up. So he always came home. We never had problems.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: We never had to wonder where he was. He was
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: always accessible. He had no problem telling us where he was.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: We didn't feel like he lied to us. We knew
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: all of his friends, you know. I think we were
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: a safe place for a lot of people to be
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: able to come and go, and so no, we never
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: had an experience where we had to worry about where
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: he was or if he had gone missing.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Three other parent including myself, is going wow, if you
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: have all three that way, because I had one that way,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: one not so much of like, oh, I can't imagine.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think we was a spiracle though, like I
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: think my kids, you know, that was probably one of
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: the things that I now I sit there and regret.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: I think I'll be an excellent grandparent when that time comes.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: But I think my kids definitely knew that there is
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: a certain level that you can do, and I will
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: allow a lot of leeway until I get to the point.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I had a friend that used to talk about a volcano.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: She's like, do you want me to have my volcano?
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Do you want it to erupt? Because we have no
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: idea when that's going to go back in? And I
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: used to count to my kids all the time, like
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: that's one, that's two, And then I'd sit there and
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I'd lower my voice and close the eye and put
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: up the finger and be like, do you really want
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: to get me to three? And they'd be like no.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: And even at Ryan at twenty, I could still stop
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: him in his tracks by saying, Ryan, do you really
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: want to get me to three? And and be like no,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: ma'am fair.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Enough, safe, fair enough, because I tell even with my grandkids,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, do you want me to cloud up and
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: rain on you? And they're like what does that mean?
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, we don't know my grandmother. I never found
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: out because I didn't want to. Do you really want
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: to be the one who finds out?
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: They're like nop, nopeep.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Now was there any changes in Ryan's behavior or routine
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: up until you got that text from James.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Not well, I mean, this would have been a new experience,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: so so I guess maybe that's not fair for me
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: to say that. Absolutely not, because I think everything in
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that two and a half months that he was there
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: was new and different for him. But no, he was
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: the same personality. He hung out with the same people's,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: same friends. And then when he went up there, he
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: hung out with James and his roommates. He got to
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: know some of the people that were living there, obviously,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: but he still was that type that he brought his
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: game boy or PlayStation up. I can't remember which one
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: it was, probably saying it wrong.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I don't ask me. I call my gaming things.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: He had one of those things and he had taken
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: up there, so if he didn't go out with his
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: roommates or friends, that's what he could be seen doing,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: sitting at home playing on Xbox. And then you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: it was interesting because when Scott and him would talk,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Scott would call him or text him, and he told
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Scott that he had been snowboarding thirty six days straight
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: and he was so happy with that have the opportunity
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: to go up because he would ski every single or
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: snowboard every single morning before heading to work, and then
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: he'd have two days off. In those two days he
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: would go out and snowboard during those days.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Wow, that just the experience he was getting is Yeah. Now,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: tell me about how the authorities reacted when you got
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: there and what they in the community did for helping.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: So we drove up as soon as we got the notification.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: It was probably about nine thirty our time or ten
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: thirty we left, and we arrived about six o'clock in
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: the morning. And during that time when we were talking
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: to the police, they had said they had sent out
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: their canine unit, so it was really dark by the
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: time they got the notification. And then when they came up,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: they certainly did the door to door that they went to.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: They went to the house that he was last seen at,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: they talked to the roommates, they you know, they conducted
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the things that they were they're going to do door
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: to door sort of that first initial search. But the
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: canine unit came up with the dogs, and so they
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: were searching, i believe until probably about two o'clock at night,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: and then they went home and then they were coming
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: back the next day. During that period of time, Kamloop
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Search and Rescue would have been notified. They mobilized their
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: volunteer in their units that evening, they set up a plan.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: They were getting ready their command center, getting everything ready,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: but they weren't going to come up until first light,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: which makes sense. There's no searching that can be done
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: at that particular time, and it was still snowing and
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: it was quite cold. So they did all the preparation
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: beforehand and then were ready to go first thing in
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: the morning. So when we arrived there, we went to
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: the house, We talked to the roommates. You know, didn't
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: really get a better sense, but at least now I
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: could visualize where he was, where he was supposed to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: have ended up, what it looked like, because we didn't
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: really we weren't really familiar with it. We had only
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: been there once, but it was a different thing. We
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: were up there skiing and obviously didn't really take in
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: the whole town or the village, so we just sort
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: of got a sense of that. We went to the
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: command center that they had set up. It was a
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: ski patrol they had turned into a temporary command center,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: and we went in there. We met with the Kamlip
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Search and Red Zouke. So I'll say Casar we met
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: with their two managers, and you know, the one had
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: said to us, based on what we've heard, so based
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: on the fact that Ryan had been drinking the night before,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: based on the levels that it's possible he consumed the
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: temperature because it was minus twenty six out, it was
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: freezing and had been since that whole weekend. It was
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: one of the coldest. So based on that and the
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: length of time that he had been out in the elements,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: they told us the chance of finding Ryan alive would
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: be slim to none. And I think we appreciated the candor,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: as shocking as that may have seen, because at least
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: you could prepare for it. And so that's what we
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: ended up doing, is sitting in the command center all day.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I couldn't search. I had just ruptured my achilles tendon
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: a couple of months before, and so it was just
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: finally weight bearing, and so I couldn't go out. I
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: know that Scott wanted to, but I think in that
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: moment he was like, I'm I'm going to stay with
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: you because I there's no point in leaving me by myself, right,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: So we sat there all day and they went out
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: and they had a huge amount of volunteers that come
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: up along with you know, the RCMP, along with KSAR.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: They were all up there searching and finally we went
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: back to our hotel room, probably about six o'clock it
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: was dark out. Our friends who we had told not
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: to show up, drove throughout the day and were there
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: probably about six fifteen. There was about five of them
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: and they just they were they're angels. If you could
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: have ever imagined angels on earth, those five people will
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: forever be in my heart and forever be solidified as angels.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, when you told me that, I got. I mean,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: people say ride or die, but those are that's some
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: great friends.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Oh amazing and there to be honest, they were the
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: beginning of more amazing people. But that was our first
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: indication that things were going to be a little bit differ.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Friend and I remember the RCMP lays on like their
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: officer came as well as one of the case our
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: managers came and they said, well we haven't found him.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: And they said, you know, based we've done all the
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: tasks that have been set out by the r c
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: m P. So this whole search day we've done all
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: the tasks that have been given to us, and until
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: there's a change in environment, which means the snow melts
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: and then you can find him in the snow, or
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: if there's a change of locations, so someone says, wife,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: saw saw Ryan here, then we won't be coming back.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: And I just remember going, okay, so i'll see you tomorrow,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't know, like who knows about missing people
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: like you've you've I never heard about anybody that I
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: knew that had somebody that had gone missing, and so
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: you have no idea what that means, right, So I
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: just thought.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: You would have been the same way it's not gonna be.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: It would be somebody here. And it was a shock
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: to actually walk into the command center and realized that it
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: had been turned back into a ski patrol and that
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: there was nobody there searching. There was just our five
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: angels that went out and rented whatever they needed because
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: they didn't come with that stuff and Scott and then
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: spent the rest of the day searching, and then we
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: set up our own command centers and from that point
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: on we engaged the community. The community of some Peaks
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: has been amazing as well as in around the Kamloops areas.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Of course our hometown. You it sort of expect Beaumont
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: to be as involved and engaged, and they certainly were.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: But at the time we had the community of Sun
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Peaks and Kamloops came together and we set up a
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: command center. And over the four and a half months
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: that we stayed up there because we weren't going to
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: go home, we had the RCMP officers said, you know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: on their way out of town tomorrow or the next day,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: just stop in at the detachment and we'll tell you
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: what happens next. Scott and I looking at each other,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: going but you haven't found him, so like, who goes home?
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Like I couldn't imagine. And then for us knowing that
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: that we're waiting, So we're waiting for the snow melts,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: so somebody will trip over our son like he was garbage,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Like like I just I couldn't even imagine, you know,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: he matters, like I couldn't even imagine doing that. So
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: we're not leaving. We didn't know how long that would be.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know if we ever thought we would be
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: there as long as we were, but we thought we
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: were just we're not giving up. It's the last physical
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: thing we could do for him. We're not We're not
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: giving up, and so we didn't. We started that and
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: over that time that we actually stayed there until the
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: snow melted, we had over I would say over eleven
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: hundred people came up to search. We had two buses
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: that came from Alberta, our province, so they travel twelve
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: hours to come to search for one day and then
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: go back. So we had two buses. And then we
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: had a group that fundraised to charter an aircraft to
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: bring up a whole group of volunteers, and they had
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: a waiting list of people that wanted to come up
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: and wanted to help. And I think that changes you
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: in your humanity as well, because I always wonder what
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: kind of person I would have been prior to this.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Would I have been one of those people that would
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: have signed up to be on a bus for somebody
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: that I didn't know but that they needed help. And
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what the answer is,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: you know, I know that I would be that person now,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: but at the time, and for these people to come
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: up and give of themselves to come up and help
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: another family is just awe inspiring. And that was the
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: beginning I think of everything, having the community stand behind you,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: having so many people come up and search and be
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: part of that. And that's what we did. We did
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the search. We did have search and res you've come
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: out a couple of other times. But as great as
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I am for that, I also recognized that you were
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: also now at this point looking for a body the
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: same we are, and so I don't know if you
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: had the same expertise. Well, you obviously had more expertise,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: but at that point where all it's just all a
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: chance for all of us, it is.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: It is now have any of Ryan's belongings that he
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: had on him that night? Has anything been found since
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: he went missing?
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, if we had been able to find something,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I think that would have been able to help pinpoint
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: at least what direction he would have gone in if
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: he had left on his own accord. I mean, there's
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: obviously quite quite a few theories, but we've not been
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: able to find anything.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Now let's go back to the night he went missing.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: They went out with friends. They went back to a
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: house where they knew people to hang out and had
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: a gathering and got together tell us how he went
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: missing from there.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: And I think that's I mean, I think that's where
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: the struggle comes from, because you are sorry, you are
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: looking at lots of people that had been out, it's
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: late at night. You're now asking people who have been
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: drinking and or doing other things to remember a significant
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: moment that didn't pose a significant timeline for them at
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: the time, right, And so you know, you're always going
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: to have And that's where our struggles were was because
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: nobody can quite remember. All we know is that Ryan
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: had gone to a bar at the village with his friends,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: was walking home and they decided that they were going
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: to Some of the people in the group left to
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: go back to their staff accommodations. Some of them went
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: back to the house, the roommate house, that's what that's
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: where Ryan was living. And then some of them carried on,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: including Ryan and some of his roommates, to one of
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: the houses that were on the street Burfield Drive. And
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: they were there And I don't know if they were
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: there that long. It doesn't it doesn't feel like by
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: all accounts, because I think they stayed until the end
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: of the bar when it closed at one, and then
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: walking home and then get to this place, which was
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: maybe fifteen minutes later, because they got a drive down
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: there maybe, And so James left first and said I'm
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: heading home, and then left, and then at some point
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: his other two roommates, Kris and Kristen, said, along with
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: another fellow, we're going to leave. And so they thought
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: it looked like Ryan was standing up to put on
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: his coat. Although I don't know if any words were
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: ever expressed, like hey, I'm coming home, Hey, wait up
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: for me, anything like that, they just assumed and then
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: they walked out the door. And on this particular in Burfield,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: the drive there's no there's no street lights. Some houses
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: will have the security lights on. As you pass by,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: the lights will come on, but otherwise the street is
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: fairly dark. We've got houses in there. At the time
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: that there was construction going on, there was also houses
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: that were duplexes, and we didn't know until probably three
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: or four days after doing door to door knocking on
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: it that a lot of those places had basement suites,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: whether they're authorized or unauthorized, you know, they had basement suites,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: and so we didn't recognize that a lot of those
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: places were for plexes. Not duplexes, right, and so so
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: many cars on that The snow at that point was
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: between eighteen to fourteen feet high on the berms on
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the sides, so it's just really hard to see down
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: that street. So they're walking in between cars, in between
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: the snow. It's dark, snow starting to fall, it's freezing out,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: and I think at some point they looked behind and
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: didn't see him and thought, Okay, well, maybe he decided
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: to stay, maybe he went another way that he's or
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: he'll catch up with us, And so they just continued
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: carrying on. And I know people always struggle with that,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: but I look at and go James left and nobody care.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Not that nobody cared, but nobody stopped him, or nobody
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: felt the need to walk up. It was safe, right.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: That's how people get around in this particular ski resort
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: because they come from overseas. They don't have cars.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I would have not thought anything strange of it either,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: and he was twenty one.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: I'd have a different opinion. I suppose if I dropped
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: my kids off they were thirteen, on a country road
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: to go and attend a bush party, I would expect
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: that we would all stay together. But I don't expect
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: a near twenty one year old to you know, wait
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: for me. You can't go home unless I got home,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: that sort of thing. So I've never held any sort
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: of anger that, you know, you didn't stay with him
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: because you know, had had James not made it home,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: but then Ryan had. I think, you know, this entire
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: narrative would have been, how awful Ryan would have been,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: like when you go home with him, when he went home.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: It's just it just yeah, it just chanced.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that we just knew that at some
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: point his friends they went home. And then nobody can
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: remember if Brian left in that house. Nobody can remember
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: if he left, what time he left, what did that
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: look like? Right like, we just don't And there's been,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you know, contrary stories about whether he looked fine, he
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: looked like he had too much to drink, he looked
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: like he was completely normal, he looked like he could
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: barely stand, And really I don't know what that is
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: is the tooth somewhere in the middle? Is it one extra?
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Everybody's perception is so different when it comes to that.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think of going over to friends, I like,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: we had friends that were said or not. I couldn't
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: tell you time one of our neighbors left. I know
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: he left, I know he said goodbye. But now that
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting here thinking about it, I can tell you
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: what time.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: He left and what was the state was? I mean,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: and he walked home? That are drinking to tell you
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: what another person's drunken state was, I just I don't
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: know how accurate you could be.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, what kind of impact has this disappearance had
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: on you and the girls and your family?
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I guess it goes without saying it's
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: changed everything about us, Like it's this ambiguous loss for
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: us that we can't quite It feels a groundhog day
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: every every single day. We had an eleven year old
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: that was in grade seven at the time, and she
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: came up and spent most of the time that we
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: were up there with us. We had a seventeen year
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: old that was graduating from high school. Her and her
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: boyfriend who lived with us at the time, was they
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: were both in high level headedive sports and going into bail.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: So all of those things happened. Then they just couldn't
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: leave high school. They just couldn't leave, And so for
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: them to have to navigate at home without us, you know,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: it changes them. I look at both of them and
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: they're amazing young women who have so much confidence and
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: have done so much. And I am so surprised by
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: that because I think it could have changed them. And
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: you probably will see something some residual trauma that has
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: happened that doesn't come out like normally. It doesn't feel
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: as mainstream. And I don't know if that's just the
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: way we've sort of brought them along. But I think
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: the one thing about Ryan going missing is that we
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: had to talk about himn every single day. So we did.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, we talked about them with volunteers, we talked
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: about the stories, and so it was never a taboo.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: So we've talked about him being wonderful, We've talked about
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: him being a jerk, and every moment in between he was,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: you know, he was imperfectly perfect, and so he's not
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: on that pedestal where like he was the most he
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: was a messiah. He was he was normal, average, ordinary, beautiful, loving,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: and so we still talk about him although our family, again,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I think there's there's a reason where Ryan got his
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: sarcasm from, so we probably deal with it a little
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: bit more of a dark hit than most people do.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: But the girls I think are are are are doing well.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: They're coping well, and when they feel like they need
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: extra support, they actually actively go and search for that.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: So I'm I'm happy with them for that. I think
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: that Scott and I, you know, we grew a lot closer.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: I think we were able to see each other in
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: a different life than we ever. I mean, we've been
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: together for thirty years, so you know, I met Scott
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: when he was well, I don't want to say he's
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty at the time, so that kind of gives
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: you the age that we're at. I was twelve, you
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: were twelve.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: I was excited.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: You were twelve, so super young. No, But so I've
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: known Scott since he was twenty, and I think that
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: you as you grow into this relationship. I think I've
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: had struggled not to seem as this twenty year old
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: in some ways, like growing up but looking like an
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: overgrown boy and a big boy right suit right. And
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I think that when you see something like this tragedy happening,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: and seeing Scott every single day getting up, putting on
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: his snow outfits, going out doesn't matter what the weather was,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: and searching all day long, and the confidence in what
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: he was doing and how he was directing and how
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: he was searching. I was like, you know, this is
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: this is my partner, this is the person that I'm with,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: And so I think we were able to see each
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: other in a different light. We were able to grow closer.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, person for me, there was a
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: lot of changes. I went back to school and graduated
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: with a degree in public relations. We co founded a
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: nonprofit with another family that it's called the Freebird Project
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: that helps support and provide resources to families that are
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: going through similar situations. Because Ryan is not the first
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: and he will not be the last, unfortunately. But there's
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of trauma that happens when a child goes
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: missing or a loved one goes missing that most people
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: wouldn't know, and we help navigate them or act as
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: a sounding board. I think if they have questions, because
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: it can be very overwhelming. There's a sense of desperation
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: that people pray upon, right.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's amazing because so many families
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: we talked to, they don't make it through this together.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: It breaks the family, and I think it says a
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: lot that y'all used it to come even closer. Yeah,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, it didn't destroy you, because that doesn't happen
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: No, it does, absolutely does not. But I think and
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: it's because I think people grieve differently. And maybe one
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: of the silver linings is that because we were so
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: far away from home. When we were there, all of
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: our friends came and stayed with us. So we had
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: a house that could fit I think almost sixteen people
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: in it, and at some points that house was completely
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: and utterly full, and so we just have people come
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: up and spend weeks at a time with us, and
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: that we're searching every single day. And so you know, Scott,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: being the one that fixes things, going out and searching
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: every single day, struggled with the anger, and you know,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: I've been searching and I can't find him. So therefore
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: somebody must be responsible. And he'd goes through those that
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: ebb and flow, and I might not be at the
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: same point. I might be at that when he's flowing.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: I'm ebbing now I'm thinking, you know, you know, he's
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: wandered away and just you know, as succumbed to hypothermia
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: or something like that, and so that's hard when I'm
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: ebbing and he's flowing to have those conversations because automatically
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: you want to defend your position. We never really had
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: to do that, because you know, he would talk about
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: where he was at that moment with his friends and
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: they would support him, and I would talk about where
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I was with my friends and they would support me.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: And then when we came together, we were actually able
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: to talk about Ryan and how much love we had
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: and what we were doing in the search to get
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: them that we'd already explored those theories and we didn't
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: need to do that with each other.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing now, I know we talked a little
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: bit because Ryan's case is so unique in the fact
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: there's not a theory like that he was taken or
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: that this. And I'm sure you've gone back and forth.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Where are you today and what you think happened doing?
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: I think we still ebb and flow. I think I
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: think one of the best advice that I ever received
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: was in the first couple of days we went and had.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I was struggling because you know, so many
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: conflicting things were coming in at the time. So somebody
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: would tell the police one thing, and then we would
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: hear from Search and Rescue that they said something else
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: to me, and you just felt like at that point,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: you're like, who's lying? Why would anybody be lying? And
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: maybe that's not necessarily true, but at the time you
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: just felt like and I was, Oh, we've been putting
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: this out and we've been searching, and somebody knows something.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: And I was just like, what happened? And I can't imagine.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: I can't go through the next step because I don't
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: know what Ryan's last moments were, and so that's really
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: keeping me from doing anything else. I feel like I
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: want to, I want to crawl into that fetal position,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: except that there's nobody else searching for him. So unless
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: we step into that role, there's nobody else that's going
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: to do that. We already found that out by day one,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: and so I to get in the fetal position, I
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: have to stand up, whether I want to or not.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: And I remember we had grief therapy and the therapist
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Daniel had said to me, she goes, you know, there's
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: all sorts of theories, there's all sorts of alternate realities
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: that you can create from the things that people will
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: tell you or the things that you can imagine. But
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: when you go from that and you don't lean into
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: the facts that you know he was here and then
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: he wasn't, and all the facts that come with it,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: then you are creating alternate realities and you were operating
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: from them. So I didn't want to go through and
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: be angry every single day because it throws what I think.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Ryan is a gift. He's always been a gift to us,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: and I thought, I don't want to operate on anger alone. Now,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Please don't mistake that meaning that I will never be
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: angry at this point in time. We just there's no
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: theory attached to it. But make no mistake. If I
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: were to find out that somebody that was responsible to
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Ryan's disappearance or covering it up, or you know, I
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: would burn this world to the ground and everyone in
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: it if I had to in order to have that justice.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: And I say that as a mother, and I'm sure
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: everybody will will not with it as such.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Right, I am there with you and I don't know him,
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: but being a fellow mom, I would come and help
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: you burn it to the ground.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Great, But I just I didn't. I don't think it
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: honors Ryan if that's how I go approach every day,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: because it'll affect and bleed into every interaction that I have,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: the ones that I have with my spouse, the ones
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: that I have with my daughters, and I just refuse
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: to let that. You know, Ryan's loss has been such
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: a tragedy for us, and it is such a loss,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: but I will not compound that loss and think of
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: his life being anything less than the gift it was,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: so until that time we do that. But I mean, really,
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: for us, theories, there's only two theories, well two buckets
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: that any theory can you can ascribe to. So either
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: someone knows something or no one knows anything. So whatever
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: theory you have rolling around in your mind, and we've
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: thought of for everyone that one person has thought of,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Scott and I have thought of one hundred, not because
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: we think that we're smarter than anybody else. It's just
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: that you may only think of Ryan once every once
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: in a while. We think about him every single day
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: right right now. Absolutely that goes with it. And so
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: it's either someone knows something or no one knows anything.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: And I couldn't tell you what that is because no
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: matter what we've done we've just not heard anything that
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: leads us in one direction or the other. Well we
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: know is that he was he was there, he was
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: at a party, and after that he was not seen again.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why I said it's so rare, because
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: when we first started Midday Missing, I used to always say,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: it's not like an alien just comes down and being
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: somebody up somebody knows something. And then Ryan's case, you
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: can't say that because of the road. It's not like
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: there was cameras in those fourteen eighteen feet of snow.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: It's I mean, since you know I've talked to you,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: my brain is like, this is truly there's I can't
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: say that I think one way or another. And it
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: would be the first time I would say nobody could
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: possibly know because.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: And it's tough because people will sit there and go,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: you've been up there for so long. We'd searched every
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: single day for four, you know, four and a half months,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: and then we continually go up and do it and
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: people were like, well, you would have found him by now.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: And I would challenge that and say, if you're not
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: familiar with the terrain and what you're looking for, I
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: don't know what the state of mind was. I don't
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: know how far he traveled or could have traveled, given
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: that because he's he was athletic, he was obviously on alcohol,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: and he had done MDMA that we were made aware
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: of afterwards. And I say that with no judgment because
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, he was an adult.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: We wouldn't have condoned MDMA or something like that, but
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: he was an adult, and I look at it and
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: go Ultimately, Ryan played the final price because he's not
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: here living the life he should be living. Whatever that
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: looks like, whatever it looked like for him, And so
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: there's no judgment for me on that. It's just that
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: is an awareness piece. So how far could he have gone,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: what was he feeling, what was the effects, what was
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: the state of mind? I don't know any of those things.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: And I don't know direction he went. And it's such
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: a difficult terrain to go and look through.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Is I looked on a map and as somebody who's
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: done you know, works in search and rescue, I was like,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Heaven's to Betsy that terrain I don't know how I mean.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: And it's not like you can say you've covered every
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: inch of it. It looks to be treacherous.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: And we've had we had tactical come out I think
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: in oh was it twenty twenty one maybe, And so
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: they so their search methods are obviously different than search
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: and rescue. So search and rescue tends to when they
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: first get called out, tends to blitz an area and
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: probably does about fifty percent a bit, but that the one
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: hundred percent. So what they're looking for is to be
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: able to call out, to be able to stumble, to
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: be able to find. So they're trying to blitz an
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: entire area as quickly as they can. After so many years,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: that technique does not work because you're missing what you're
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: you should be finding. So tactical is very different. They're
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: looking for that needle in the haystacks, so they're on
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: their hands and knees looking. And what was interesting to
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: us within the first I think first hour or two
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: on a path that was at the end of the road,
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: a path that gets walked every single day, whether it's
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: snowmbilla in the winter or dog walking everything. They were
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: there and they found a search and rescue radio that
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: had been dropped three years prior. Right, So we didn't
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: find it. They didn't find it. Search and rescue didn't
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: find it, Police hadn't found dogs like, it hadn't been found.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: But they found it within the first hour of going
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: out and searching. And for every case that you could
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: talk about where someone has been found, there's just as
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: many that you'll sit there and go years later. That
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: person was found one hundred two hundred, three hundred meters
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: from where the last destination was known. And it's not
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: you know, through a lack of effort, a lack of experience,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: you know, dedication or resources. It's just that searching it's
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: not infallible as as any other.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Process, especially in a terrain like that. It would be
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: different if it was just a flat you know, one
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: hundred miles of just flat land with like ten trees.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: But that area is We had someone go missing in
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Kamloops and it was missing throughout the entire winter, and
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: then they did find that person when the snow melted.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: And again within the destination it was flat prairie ground,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: no trees, and they still could not find that person
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: in the winter. And it wasn't like that person went
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: missing prior to the snow melting or to the snow coming,
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: they went missing. Maybe some snowfall happened, but not enough
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: like in a couple of days. But I mean, it
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: just it does go to show you for every case
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: that you hear of, there's tons that you haven't that
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: they'll be found years later close to the proximity of
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: where they were last seen.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, and I just thought of this, how has
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: James handled all of this, because it just hit me
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: to think how he probably has blamed himself guilty. How
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: is he also go in contact with him?
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: That is the casualty of everything is that we don't
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: have contact with him, And it's I think it was
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: difficult because of course you've got people that came on there,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: and you know, ninety percent of the people that have
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: joined our Facebook group were incredibly supportive. In the first
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: year or so, there was a select few that you know,
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: of course they're passionate and engaged, and they turned their
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: attentions to the people that were at the house, the roommates, James,
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: especially James, and he had been vetted by the police
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: within the first twenty four hours, like he had left,
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: he had gone home, right, he was where he's supposed
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: to be. Ryan was seen before James left that sort
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: of thing. So at that point in time, there was
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: and there still has been, nothing to flag James, but
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: yet he received the brunt And I think one of
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: the things that struggled with our family althone necessarily myself
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: because I'd known James in a different sort of capacity
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: through our work. But you know, you'll get people that
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: will look and our family members and our friends he
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: didn't respond in the way that they felt he should.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: And I think grief affects people in so many different ways,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: and so I don't think that you can judge somebody
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: in those initial moments. I think that James will go
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: throughout his rest of his life dealing with the fact
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: that he probably didn't show up in the way that
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: maybe he would have now at almost twenty will he'd
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: be twenty eight this year, How he would have shown
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: up now, And maybe it'd be the same, maybe it
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: would be different. I'm not exactly sure that, you know.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: I think that there's grace. I can give grace to
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: that because I think that's what Ryan would have wanted.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that it probably is very difficult.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: I think that he some of the friends struggled with,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: you know, the lack of effort towards maybe searching, or
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: just a perceived sense of selfishness that may or may
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: not have been true.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: I couldn't say well, I mean, and they're so young.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, even as an adult, we can't say, oh, hey,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: how And I when I hear people say, oh, they
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: didn't act the way they were supposed to, It's kind
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: of like when you have a child. There's not a
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: role book of what to do and how to do it.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: And I think his family life led him to become
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: the young man that he was at that particular time.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: And so you know, I don't think that he showed
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: up in the way that he would have wanted to.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: And that's okay, not all of us do, but I
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: don't think that diminishes that he considered Ryan his friend.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Now, since it has been years, how do y'all continue
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: to stay connected to Bran and how does your family
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: still celebrate him? Well?
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I think you know, we started we started the Facebook
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: a sort of a you know, everybody kept asking have
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: you found him? Have you found him? So the Facebook
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: started generically or very organically that way, just to remind
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: people and tell them, no, we haven't. We're still searching,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: we need volunteers, that sort of thing, and then it
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: morphed into I wasn't able to search for those first
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: couple of months. So I would create a post and
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: I would tell you what I was, what we were doing,
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: what we were experiencing that day, what you know, my
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: memories of Ryan uh and and then you know, talked
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: about his love of dinosaurs when he was you know,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: eighteen months.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: I saw you about the dinosaurs, and I loved the dinosaurs.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: And it's again like I wish I could tell you
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: there's a formula that if you do a B and
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: C that you will you will get the level of
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: engagement you will you know, that sort of thing that
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: that there isn't any and I think you have to
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: be very sincere and very genuine in every interaction that
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: you do. And so for us, it was he had
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: a love of dinosaurs. People then made you know, decos
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: from that, and then eventually we had the whole you know,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: making these three D dinosaurs with this beautiful little poem
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: that one of my men's. We call them unicorns because
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: they are these magical creatures that should never have been seen,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: and yet we see them every single day infused throughout
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: Ryan's group, and they're amazing women that help and everything
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: they can do. And so they created this little tag
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: to talk about being kind so that you know, wherever
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: you find these dinosaurs and people take them, they scan them.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: So these dinosaurs have been seen in over ninety countries,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: scanned over ten thousand times, and they have reached so
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: many different people. And I think that's an incredibly amazing
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: way to honor Ryan. But also it talks about it. It
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: shares a story, which I think is really important. But
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: I think it also challenges you to look in your
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: own community and well, Ryan is not going to necessarily
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: be in some of these places, like you know, he's
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: been shown up in the Russian Federation. Do I think
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Bryan's there? No, But perhaps in your community, when you
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: find the dinosaur, you share the story. Ryan's story becomes known,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: which is wonderful. But then perhaps you'll look around in
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: your community and see how can I help. Is there
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: another missing person case that doesn't have the same sort
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: of exposure, or is there a neighbor that needs a
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: certain amount of kindness? Because I think kindness isn't such
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: short supply that we could do a little bit more
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: Absolutely we could.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So we honor ran that way. We honor him
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: with our memories. We honor him through, you know, the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: the continuation of his story whenever we can, we can
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: share it. We honor him through helping other families that
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: are navigating this this sort of loss. I think that
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: we try to. He has this legacy I think of
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: love and kindness that and he's impacted so many people,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: whether they knew him or or not, and so I
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: think that we are just honor bound to be able
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: to continue on that legacy for him.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Now, what is the name of the foundation again?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: It's called the Freebird Project.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: The free Bird Project, and I thought, I was like,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: it's that we have a burrito place called Freebirds. And
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: I was like, it's the burrito place name, but I
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: wanted to know the exact name. Well, is there anything
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: else you would like to share with us before we
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: say goodbye to everyone?
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that it would be lovely for people
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: to join. But also one of the things that I
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: did was take took those posts that I had written,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: and I wrote a book, right, and the book is
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: called Missing from Me, and it sort of chronicles and
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: I think What makes it interesting is that it is
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: in real time, so the posts are actually in real time,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: so you can see what we're going through, how we're
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: expressing it, how it's affecting us, that sort of thing.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: And I hope that some of the stories that are
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: in there, if you don't have a child that's missing,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: it still resonates with you, like taking don't be a
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: passenger when your your kids are growing up, and to
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: be in the pictures and that sort of thing, and
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: to hang on to those moments and the guilt that
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: you have is and the regret that you have as
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: parents and that sort of thing. I keep thinking, there's
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: so many gifts that Ryan has given me, and one
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: of them is to the ability to be able to
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: share his story. So I think that it's more than
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: just sadness. I think it's filled with community, love and
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: support that maybe not a lot of people have necessarily
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: seen before. And so if you have a chance, yeah.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Say, y'all's community is amazing. I mean, we see stuff
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: like that here on a much smaller scale. I it's
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: the first time I've heard a story of so many
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: people going twelve hours away to look for a day.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Oh and the beginning of it. We've met so many
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: people that continue now to support us and they never
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: ever met Ryan, and they are so connected to the story.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: And I think that it just goes to show you
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: because there is so much disparity in the way people
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: are searched and across the board, there's no real consistency,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: and not everybody knows that they need to advocate. I
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: think they trust in a process that isn't quite clearly defined,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: and it changes depending on where you are from, and
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: it depends on how the person goes missing. And so
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: I think if I could leave everybody with one thing,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: is that look around. Not everybody has the same sort
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: of network, the same sort of but I think everybody
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: deserves to know that everything is being done. Whether you
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: go missing willingly, unwillingly or unknowingly, there's always somebody left
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: behind that wants to know. And that person that's gone
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: missing should know that every resource is being thrown at
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: them to bring them home. And I think if you
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: have the ability to search or do whatever, so whether
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: it's sharing, whether it's donating it, whether it's talking about
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: it in your circles, whatever it is, if there's somebody
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: in your area or your community that is missing. One
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: of the biggest fears I think that we have as families.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: There's so many things we can control, and one of
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: them is that that is kind of in our controls
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: to make sure that your child is not forgotten. And
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: that's a big fear, is that if it's not you,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: who will carry on and you know, take up the
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: flag for them? And so one of our greatest fears
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: is that has has sort of been relieved by the
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: community that we're surrounded with. People will continue to search
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: for Ryan long after we are gone. He will continue
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: to remain in the minds and memories of so many people.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: If other families could have that reassurance to know that
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: their child will never be forgotten, their loved one, and
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: it does not matter why they go missing, they all
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: deserve to come home.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Could not agree with you more And as we always
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: ask everyone, please do your part. Share the missing posts
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: and flyers that will be on all of our social
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: media a link to this go out read her book
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: because I wrote it down so I can order a copy.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: But I just want to ask everyone please do that.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Let's help Heather and everyone keep Ryan's memory alive and
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: let's share his story. Heather, thank you so much for
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: joining us today and for sharing a little bit of Ryan.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: I almost feel like I know him just from the
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: deep dive I was doing into the Facebook page and stuff.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: And you guys have truly done a great job. And
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: wherever Ryan is, he knows or should know that you
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: guys have gone above and beyond and you've done it
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: with class and dignity and kindness. And the world needs
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: more people like you. So thank you for taking time
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: to talk with us, but also thank you for what
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: you're doing for other families, because you're right, he won't
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: be the last one. I wish we could come on
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: a show someday and say, guess what, this is our
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: final episode. No one will ever go missing again, and
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: unfortunately that's not the case. So thank you for everything.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: Yes now I want to say thank you to everyone
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: for joining me today. We will see you again on
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Wednesday for the next episode of Midday Missing And if
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: you follow True Crime and Wine Time, we air every
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: Thursday night at eight pm Central. This week, JT is
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: back from his cruise and we are covering the ax
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: Men murders in New Orleans and Guys as somebody who
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: loves New Orleans. I'm going to tell you this case
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: is frightening. Okay, so you want to join us. Also,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: True Crime and Wine Time has our first live show
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: for twenty twenty five on May third at Hamilton Pool
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: Vineyard in Farms in Dripping Springs, Texas. We are going
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: to be covering the Austin, Texas yogurt shop murders. If
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: you live in the area, you want to come out
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: hang out with JT and I as we do the
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: show live. We would love to see you. Also, remember
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: you can join us on our Facebook pages. We are
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: also on Instagram, TikTok, a thing called Twitter now called
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: something else. You can find us there. And remember you
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: can find all of our shows right here on YouTube
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: and as always, guys, until next time, I want you
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: to please stay safe, stay aware, and let's help bring
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: the missing home. Bye guys until Wednesday, stay safe. The
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: next top spot in