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Indictment (Georgia's Version) · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm unindicted co-conspirator Jon Levin.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Republican presidential candidates descend on the Iowa
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: State Fair. Merrick Garland gives special counsel status to the U.S.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: attorney investigating Hunter Biden. RFK Jr. floats a national abortion ban.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: And later, Representative Ruben Gallego stops by to talk about
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: extreme heat in Arizona and his campaign to unseat Kyrsten Sinema.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: But first, Donald Trump has been indicted for the fourth time.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: A Fulton County grand jury has voted to charge Trump
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and 18 other defendants with 41 counts. starting with the
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: violation of the Georgia RICO Act, which stands for Racketeer
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Influenced and Corrupt Organizations. Some of the other notable defendants
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: charged as part of Trump's criminal enterprise include Rudy Giuliani,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Mark Meadows, Sidney Powell, John Eastman, Jeff Clark, Jenna Ellis,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Ken Cheesbrough, and former Georgia Republican Chair David Schaefer. Fulton
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: County District Attorney Fannie Willis' indictment says that Trump and
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: his crew, quote, constituted a criminal organization whose members and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: associates engaged in various related criminal activities, including but not
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: limited to false statements and writings, impersonating a public officer, forgery,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: filing false documents, influencing witnesses, computer theft, computer trespass, computer
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: invasion of privacy, conspiracy to defraud the state, acts involving theft,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: and perjury. And here's the DA at a press conference.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Saying, I make decisions in this office based on the
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: facts and the law. The law is completely nonpartisan. That's
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: how decisions are made in every case. To date, this
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: office has indicted, since I've been sitting as a district attorney,
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: over 12,000 cases. This is the 11th RICO indictment. We
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: followed the same process. We look at the facts, we
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: look at the law, and we bring charges. All right.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: And with us to walk through this indictment is Strict
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Scrutiny's Melissa Murray.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Welcome.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Thanks for doing this.
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. Up late.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Up very late. So now that we're all Rico experts now,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: because there's been a couple. A couple hours perusing Twitter.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us what the RICO law is and
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: sort of how Fannie Willis sort of combined all of
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: these charges and all these offenses under the RICO law?
• 2:36
  Speaker 6: Well, let me preface this with I'm not a RICO expert.
• 2:39
  Speaker 6: Much of what I know about RICO comes from my
• 2:41
  Speaker 6: obsessive watching of The Sopranos for much of the early 2000s.
• 2:45
  Speaker 6: But RICO, as you said, is a racketeering statute. So
• 2:49
  Speaker 6: it's meant to sort of get at questions of organized
• 2:51
  Speaker 6: criminal syndicates. And there's one at the federal level. There's
• 2:55
  Speaker 6: a federal RICO statute, which if you watch The Sopranos,
• 2:58
  Speaker 6: Tony Soprano was always very concerned about federal RICO charges.
• 3:01
  Speaker 6: But there are also state level RICO charges. And Georgia
• 3:05
  Speaker 6: has its own RICO statute. And what's so interesting about
• 3:08
  Speaker 6: Fannie Willis's use of the RICO statute here is that one,
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: She's used it before.
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: There was a.
• 3:14
  Speaker 6: Very high-profile Atlanta teacher's cheating scandal a few years ago
• 3:18
  Speaker 6: that was prosecuted under the Georgia RICO statute, and she
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: was involved in that prosecution, so she has some experience
• 3:24
  Speaker 6: with it. The second thing that's notable about the Georgia
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: RICO statute is that it carries a five-year minimum sentence.
• 3:32
  Speaker 6: And the third thing that's notable about the RICO statute
• 3:35
  Speaker 6: in the context of this particular indictment is that there
• 3:39
  Speaker 6: are apparently 19 people in this criminal syndicate, Donald Trump
• 3:43
  Speaker 6: and 18 others. And so the fact that there is
• 3:47
  Speaker 6: a five-year minimum sentence for these RICO charges and 18
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: other defendants, that means there's a lot of opportunity here
• 3:56
  Speaker 6: for people to flip and to cooperate and to provide information.
• 3:59
  Speaker 6: And That's not even related to the 30 other unindicted
• 4:04
  Speaker 6: co-conspirators that are identified but not named in this indictment.
• 4:08
  Speaker 6: So it's a sweeping indictment. The RICO statute allows her
• 4:11
  Speaker 6: to sort of lay out a case with a narrative
• 4:14
  Speaker 6: that is broad in scope and explains exactly what was
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: happening here and why there was essentially a criminal syndicate
• 4:23
  Speaker 6: with a former president at the head of it.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: The other important point, I think, is that these are
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: state charges and they can't be pardoned by Trump if
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: he wins the election. So to your point about all
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: the people who could flip on Trump were they to
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: face real jail time, he can't make them any promises.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 4:42
  Speaker 6: And I should also correct this because I misstated this
• 4:44
  Speaker 6: on MSNBC last week. Georgia is one of the states
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: where the governor doesn't actually have direct clemency privileges, which
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: is to say the governor does not grant pardons in Georgia.
• 4:56
  Speaker 6: There's actually, since the 1940s, a state board of pardons
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: and paroles that makes recommendations as to pardon. So it's
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: not even like someone could call up Brian Kemp and
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: say like, okay, you got to do.
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: Our guy a solid here.
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: It actually has to go through the state board and
• 5:12
  Speaker 6: then be processed in order for a state pardon to happen.
• 5:15
  Speaker 6: And again, not the same as a federal pardon. This
• 5:18
  Speaker 6: is not going to change if Donald Trump somehow becomes
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: president or if someone close to him becomes president.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Were you surprised? Just in reading it, I, you know,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I've never seen an indictment document of a former president
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: of trying to overturn an election in Georgia before. So
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: this is the first time I've read one like this.
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: In Georgia was the critical point there.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: But were you surprised by how sweeping the acts defining
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: the criminal enterprise were that how far field from Fulton
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: County Fannie Willis is going?
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of other jurisdictions
• 5:55
  Speaker 6: involved here, some that are not necessarily even in the
• 5:58
  Speaker 6: state of Georgia. So Coffey County, which is in Georgia,
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: as mentioned, but also outside of Georgia. And she was
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: asked during her press conference whether or not that was
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: going to be an issue.
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: And she spoke to this question.
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: And again, because they connect back to the effort to
• 6:14
  Speaker 6: overturn the election in Georgia, they are properly, in her view, within.
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: The scope of this Georgia RICO charge.
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: And so You can bet there's probably going to be
• 6:23
  Speaker 6: some wrangling going forward from Donald Trump's lawyers about whether
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: or not those additional kinds of charges that take place
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: out of the jurisdiction are proper under this particular indictment.
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: But she seems to have an answer for that. But
• 6:36
  Speaker 6: I'm not surprised by how sweeping this is. I mean,
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: this was a case that has been building for some time.
• 6:42
  Speaker 6: She's indicated that it was going to be broad in
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: scope and in substance. And she kind of nailed the
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: landing on this one, at least in terms of the indictment.
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: This is the kind of indictment that has the kind
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: of fireworks I think we were expecting in some of
• 6:56
  Speaker 6: the other indictments that didn't quite cash out. But this
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: one is really meaty, lots to say. And again, this idea,
• 7:03
  Speaker 6: this ideal of Donald Trump sitting on the top of this,
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: like Tony Soprano at Satriali's pork shop.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Was there anything just skimming through the indictment that surprised you?
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: And like, what do you think of the the strength
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: of the overall case just from, from your, from perusing the,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: the indictment.
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: I was definitely surprised that Rudolph Giuliani has two middle names,
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: like was not expecting that. Also appreciated how at her
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: press conference, she identified every defendant by their full names,
• 7:36
  Speaker 6: like very, very big school marm energy.
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: That was great.
• 7:39
  Speaker 6: Again, I loved the part in the indictment, and again,
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: it does read like a narrative, where she talked about
• 7:48
  Speaker 6: the fraud on the people of Georgia. And she mentioned
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: Ruby Moss and her daughter Shay and how their lives
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: were essentially upended by Donald Trump and the way in
• 8:00
  Speaker 6: which he implicated them as perpetrating this massive fraud in
• 8:04
  Speaker 6: Georgia that really wasn't the case. And A point that
• 8:08
  Speaker 6: she made in the press conference that I think underlies
• 8:11
  Speaker 6: much of this indictment is that she is part of
• 8:14
  Speaker 6: law enforcement.
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: She spent a lot of.
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: Time at the press conference thanking law enforcement, the sheriff's officers,
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: for keeping them safe in the courthouse, the police officers
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: in Atlanta. But she, too, is a law enforcement officer.
• 8:27
  Speaker 6: And she made very clear, both in this indictment and
• 8:29
  Speaker 6: her prepared remarks— that she was doing no more than
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: upholding the law, doing her job, and doing right by
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: the people of Georgia.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: One other piece of it, just to your point about
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: sort of the impact on people in Georgia, is the
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: lengths they were going to try to intimidate Ruby Freeman.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of detail about like going to the
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: neighbor's house, saying we're going to help you. Hey, we're
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: here to help you.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Hey, you need to be.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, it just sounds so much like mom shit. Like, hey,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: it'd be a shame if something would have happened to you,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: if something nasty would have come your way if you
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: don't cooperate with us. It feels like It does feel
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: like gangster shit.
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: Well, and some of the charges sort of have that
• 9:06
  Speaker 6: kind of gangster shit feeling to it too, like forgery,
• 9:09
  Speaker 6: impersonating an officer. I mean, it's not like everything here
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: is like a high-minded criminal conspiracy. Some of it just
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: seems like really petty things. criminal mind stuff like that
• 9:21
  Speaker 6: you would see like, you know, like corner boys doing.
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: And that's sort of like the level of it. This
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: was like brass knuckles tactics to try and overturn an election.
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: It wasn't just simply sort of concocting with John Eastman
• 9:35
  Speaker 6: these schemes about constitutional law. It was like, you know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 6: bare knuckles. Let's forge these documents. Let's intimidate witnesses. Let's
• 9:42
  Speaker 6: tell someone that we're police officers and invite them here
• 9:45
  Speaker 6: to do this. Like, I mean, it's some of it's
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: just kind of really shady, shady stuff.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: She got asked at the press conference if she's going
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to try all 19 defendants together, and she said yes. Um,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: what's the significance of that? And is that going to be,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: is that, is that normal? Like how does that usually work?
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: It can be normal.
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: I mean, often in some of these big cases, like,
• 10:08
  Speaker 6: like the most common analog I can think of from
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: my own experience, um, was like a large multi-defendant drug
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: trial where all of the defendants were on trial at
• 10:16
  Speaker 6: the same time. So it's not unusual. It's not unorthodox.
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: It is unwieldy though. I mean, that's 19 different defendants,
• 10:25
  Speaker 6: 19 different lawyers. Then you have to add in like
• 10:27
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump's lawyers are probably gonna change five or six times.
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: So like add in an additional five or six lawyers
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: who will be going in and out. And then all
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: of the different motions for each of these defendants. And
• 10:37
  Speaker 6: you can predict right now that Donald Trump is going
• 10:40
  Speaker 6: to do everything to slow this down because part of
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: the delay tactic here will not just be delaying getting
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: to a trial. It will also be intended to keep
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: all of these 18 co-defendants in line so that none
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: of them defects and flips and cooperates.
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: So it's just going.
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: To be unwieldy for her. But I mean, again, it
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: makes sense to do it all together.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I think we all remember when District Attorney Harvey Dent
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: indicted the Falcone- crime syndicate. Um, and the impact that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: had on the city and, and the way it did
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: help stem the tide of that, that enterprise.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: And then there's a lot of talk. Thank you for that.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of talk that, uh, Donald Trump might
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: try to get, uh, funny wills removed from this case.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Is that something you anticipate as part of the just
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: sort of general, like mucking up the gears process? And
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: she said she wants to travel within six months.
• 11:34
  Speaker 6: She does want a trial very quickly. That, again, I
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: think is consistent with criminal trials. The whole idea of
• 11:39
  Speaker 6: a speedy trial is that the government doesn't get to
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: keep you on a rotisserie spit indefinitely. If they make
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: these charges against you, they have to either prove them
• 11:50
  Speaker 6: or you're free and you're innocent. So that's not a surprise.
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: I do think that there's a lot of pressure here
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: for the Georgia GOP to keep her in place because
• 12:00
  Speaker 6: I think the optics of taking.
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: Her out would be really poor.
• 12:05
  Speaker 6: And, you know, these are the same Georgia Republicans who,
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: you know, they're Republicans for sure, but they're also the
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: ones that kind of stood up to Trump, like I'm
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: thinking of Raffensperger, who was like, you know, no, I
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: can't find you those votes. Like they've been pretty principled
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: on the things that have counted. And this is something
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: that I think really counts. I don't think they can
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: bend to his will and remove her on the view
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: that she's somehow targeting him. She's been pretty much above
• 12:33
  Speaker 6: board with this. And she was very clear in her statement. Like,
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: you know, I'm not prosecuting him out of spite. I'm
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: prosecuting him because this is where the facts are.
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: And it's an indictment. It's just a set of allegations.
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: It's now my duty to prove these charges beyond a
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: reasonable doubt. And if I don't, these people are innocent.
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: And they are innocent now until proven guilty beyond a
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: reasonable doubt.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure one of the first moves from Trump's
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: legal team will be to try to get this case
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: moved from state court to federal court. Do you think
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: that's likely to succeed, or what would you put the
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: chances of that?
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: I mean, again, generally the standard for federal court removal
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: really requires the presence of significant federal questions or significant overlap.
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: And there is some overlap with Jack Smith's case, but
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: there's also a lot that's quite distinct, and that is
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: very specific to Georgia and Georgia's own body of laws.
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: And so I think that might give a federal judge
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: pause in hearing a request to remove this to federal court.
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: To be clear, even if it were removed to federal court,
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: there's a lot here that I think is really meaty
• 13:41
  Speaker 6: for a jury to get into, whether it's a state
• 13:44
  Speaker 6: jury or a federal jury. But I think at most,
• 13:47
  Speaker 6: and most pressingly for Donald Trump, And any effort to
• 13:51
  Speaker 6: remove this to federal court is nothing more than a
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: delay tactic, first and foremost, to slow this down.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: If they were to try to move this to federal court,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: would that make it a federal RICO case? Is that
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: how that would work? Because then can't they take his stuff?
• 14:07
  Speaker 6: I think that's one of the reasons why there's so
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: much Georgia specific stuff here. Like the Georgia RICO statute
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: is different from the federal RICO statute. And it's not
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: clear that it's easily translatable. So when I say like,
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: I think there's enough here that is very specific to
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: Georgia that would like require it to be heard in
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: a Georgia tribunal as opposed to a federal tribunal. That's
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: what I'm talking about. But I don't think that they
• 14:29
  Speaker 6: would translate as easily to a federal RICO. So I
• 14:33
  Speaker 6: don't think it's like, you know, you move to federal
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: court and now it's a federal RICO case.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: If you were coordinating the global defense for Donald Trump
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: of all these cases, is there one that you would
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: be most worried about now having seen all of them?
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: Like in terms of all of these indictments?
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, like on the Mar-a-Lago documents cases, like we
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: have photos of fucking top secret documents sitting next to
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: the toilet and he's, you know, deleting footage from the
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: tapes or at least attempting to. So it seems like
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: he's dead to rights there. This case is the state
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: based case. It's broad, sweeping. I'm just wondering if at
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: first blushed as one of these you think is the
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: most concerning for him, legally speaking.
• 15:07
  Speaker 6: So if I were running the Four Seasons legal team,
• 15:11
  Speaker 6: the elite strike force, what would I be most concerned about?
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: The fact that you're indicted in this document.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, like the fact that.
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: We have an indictment for every year of this guy's
• 15:22
  Speaker 6: presidency is notable. And I mean, I think you have to,
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: if you're thinking globally, like that's a lot to sort
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: of keep in the air.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: It's a lot of balls to juggle.
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: Like most criminal defense lawyers are dealing with with one
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: major criminal prosecution and not four, and not while you're
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: also trying to minister to a client who is famously irascible,
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: famously unmotivated to listen, and also campaigning for president at
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: the same time. So I would be worried about this
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: Georgia prosecution for sure, just because of all of the
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: different ways in which it has really broad legal liability
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: in terms of the exposure of all of the participants
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: and the fact that so many people could defect at
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: any time. And the fact that there are these 30
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: other unindicted co-conspirators who, like zombies, I guess, could be
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: revivified and brought into this. And so that's a real concern.
• 16:19
  Speaker 6: But the Jack Smith prosecution, the Mar-a-Lago documents, and the
• 16:24
  Speaker 6: January 6th prosecution, I mean, those are not to be
• 16:27
  Speaker 6: laughed at either. And then you have Alvin Bragg in
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: Manhattan and There's the civil liability with Tish James in
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: New York and the Trump organization, the next E. Jean
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: Carroll defamation suit. I mean, that's a lot of balls
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: to keep in the air. I don't envy his lawyers
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: at all. I mean, no one should envy his lawyers.
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: It's the worst job in the world. And it usually
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: means that you're on your way to getting your own
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: attorney at some point. But this is a bad, bad situation,
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: I think, in terms of just case management and trying
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: to keep all of these ducks in a row.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: A real crime buffet.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Speaking of lawyers, many of them are indicted in this document.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: You have Rudy's all over this thing. John Eastman's here.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Sidney Powell is not just a reference for her involvement
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: in a few of the different schemes, but also for
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: lying about it. I think she's one of the people
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: mentioned directly for doing some perjury in here.
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: Light perjury.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Some light perjury. What do you take from this that
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: so many of his lawyers... are included, the people that
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: were actively representing him at the time, are included in
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: this indictment?
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's not a great day for the profession.
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: I mean, every time one of these indictments drops, I
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: think we say on Strict Scrutiny, it's been a pretty
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: bad day for the profession. It's not a great look
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: for lawyers. You know, so many people have lawyer jokes,
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: like the whole idea of lawyers as sharks being unprincipled, unethical.
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: this just feeds that perception. And I don't know that
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: it is an accurate perception. Most of the lawyers I
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: know are decent, are committed to doing the right thing.
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: This really does feel anomalous. But what really strikes me
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: is these are people so enthralled in the cult of
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: Donald Trump that they're not only willing to put their
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: professional reputations on the line in service of him, they're
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: now in a position where they're likely putting their liberty
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: at risk. I mean, like I didn't even like this
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: guy in The Apprentice. I couldn't even imagine like putting
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: my license on the line for him, much less my liberty.
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: I mean, so obviously when you get really close to him,
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: he's really appealing, but I just don't understand the appeal
• 18:45
  Speaker 6: at all.
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: And I don't know why you would do this for
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: this guy.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Melissa Murray, thank you as always for hopping on Pod
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Save America, especially so late. and walking us through this indictment.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Well, that was worth the wait. We'll tell you all
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: what happened here. We recorded the pod on Monday afternoon,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: like we usually do. We thought that maybe the indictment
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: would drop right afterwards, and we'd come back in, record
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the A Block, and here it is, 9 p.m. Pacific time.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we wanted to wait. Out of respect for you,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: our dear listener. to not say, oh, yeah, we'll give
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: you an indictment bonus. We wanted to get into it.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: We thought, all right, we'll give it an hour for
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: this thing. I don't know how long it takes them
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: to PDF down there in Georgia, but fucking two and
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: a half hours? Just get the thing uploaded.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: That's quite a long time.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I thought the judge was going to read some names,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: but the judge did not read the names. He just
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: had a look on his face, though. It was like, oh,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: there's a former president on here.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Look at that.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Wait, I'm sorry.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: This can't be right. What do you guys think? Do
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you think we got him? Anything stick out at you
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: in the indictment? I know we've been reading through these
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: things as fast as possible here.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Well, one thing I just, one thing that Fannie Wells
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: has said. is that she likes Rico. She's a fan
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: of Rico.
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: I'm a fan of Rico.
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: I've told people that.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: And the reason that I am a fan of Rico
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: is I think jurors are very, very intelligent. But they
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: want to know the whole story. They want to know
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: what happened. They want to make an accurate decision about
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: someone's life. And so RICO is a tool that allows
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: a prosecutor's office and law enforcement to tell the whole story.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: We love RICO. We love RICO, don't we, folks? Don't
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: we love RICO?
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: We love beautiful, fabulous RICO. But she talks about the
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: fact that she likes it in part because it gives
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: her the ability that when you have a jury, they
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: want to understand the whole story. They want to understand
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the whole story of what the crime was, not just
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: the very specifics, but the larger narrative of what people
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: were up to and that RICO gives her the ability
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: to do that. And it's just so, it's still jarring
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: to see just in an indictment the connection between the
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: public statements and the private planning and then the criminal
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: acts that took place later, seeing it all weaved together,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: not just in Georgia, from state to state to state,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: and to see it said so plainly that when Trump
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: was going on television and saying that the election was stolen,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: that we should look what's happening in Georgia, that dead
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: people were voting in Michigan, whatever he was saying, that
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: those statements themselves might not have been a crime, but
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: they were in furtherance of a conspiracy to overturn the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: election and part of a criminal enterprise.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty bad.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: To one point that Melissa made, and she talked about
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: how some of these were just like, they weren't all
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: like high-minded crimes, right? Like when you read the D.C.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: indictment for overturning the election, the Jack Smith case, a
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: lot of it is, you know, it's violation of the
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: constitution and, you know, conspiracy. I was struck by some
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: of the acts here, you know, in Georgia, members of
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the enterprise stole data, including ballot images, voting equipment, software,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: and personal voter information. Like to talk about this, we
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: can put the legal stuff aside, but just to talk
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: about this from a political standpoint and, you know, persuading
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: people that, yeah, Donald Trump breaks the law and is
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: part of a criminal enterprise is Like stuff like that,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: like hacking into voting machines.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Stealing data.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Stealing data.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: It'll be complicated because they're going to say this election
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: official gave us a letter and invited us, blah, blah, blah.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: But I agree with you. That is sort of an
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: easy to understand. Also soliciting, this is a high-minded one,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: soliciting the vice president to violate the constitution.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, we've seen that one before.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: But creating fake documents, harassing election officials, creating and distributing
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: false electoral college documents, the way they phrase it as
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: part of this broader Rico case, which is a criminal
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: on the rise with Donald Trump at the helm, it
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: does make it all make more sense and feel more salient.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And also just it puts it in a like it
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: takes it out of the political context, too, and puts
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: it in a like a law and order TV fucking
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: crime context of these were forgeries. These were catch me
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: if you can fake fucking electors.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: And then.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: You might end up with like Ruby Freeman on the
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: stand saying, my family was terrified. They came to my house.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: She did with her daughter during the January 6th hearings.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Very powerful.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: And she's gonna be back on the stand telling that
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: story is really powerful to see, not in like a
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: congressional hearing, not like with Paul, not with politicians around,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: but on the witness stand in a trial.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Well, and you say powerful to see that's the other
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: big thing here in terms of the politics, which is
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: if this case does stay in a state court, if
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: it's not moved to federal court, this judge has already
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: ruled that there will be cameras in the courtroom and
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: this will be the trial of Donald Trump that we
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: see like every day on television, which is going to
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: be much different than getting reports about it when it's
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: like the Jack Smith case.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: No puppet show system.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Elijah said when he, when Elijah heard that the thing
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: was going to be televised, he shouted.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Let's go.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Like he hit a, like a half court three, three, three.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I can't do a sports joke. Like he did a
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: sports thing.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: Last thing on this is interesting. It's, Everyone's been wondering,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: where's Mark Meadows? Where's Mark Meadows? Mark Meadows is in
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: this document. He's got the counts of the RICO statute
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: and he's charged with soliciting a solicitation of violation of
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: oath by public officers. So.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: It's going to be, uh, and, uh, cameras allowed in
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the courtroom. The sheriff has already said that he will
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: be getting a mugshot of Donald Trump. They won't be
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: doing anything different than anyone that for anyone else.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, how will we know who it is? If he escapes,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: we have to put something out.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Going to get ourselves a mugshot.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: We also, by the way, we don't know individuals one
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: through 30. We don't know if any of those people
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: have already cooperated.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know there's some, we were just recording a
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: couple of minutes after this broke, but, um, There was
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: some speculation that someone high up has probably flipped, who's
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: one of the unindicted co-conspirators that was part of the
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: oval meeting where they were talking about accessing voter data.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: You know, Mark Meadows on the phone with his lawyer
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: being like, you tell them I will say whatever they
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: need to say. Get me the fuck out of this.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: You get me out of this tomorrow. I will tell
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: them whatever they want.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Six months, she said. That brings us to February, March.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: That is like.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: March is the Alvin Bragg case. Jack Smith wants early January.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: This could be February or March. Who knows what Cannon's
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: going to do with the documents case. But that is a,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: that's quite a kickoff to 2024 for Donald Trump.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Look, we're not legal experts. No way this happens in
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: six months, though. No way. It's going to be so,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: it sounds so complicated with this many people.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that is the drawback with 19 defendants,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: because they're all... And I think a judge can step
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: in and sever the case if they want, but she
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: definitely wants to try them all at once.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: They have until August... Was it August 25th to surrender?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: August 25th to surrender.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: I like that phrasing.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: In other news, Trump and the Republicans, ostensibly trying to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: beat him for the nomination, spent the weekend at the
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Iowa State Fair. There was plenty of stumping, grilling, trolling, heckling,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and even rapping, which we'll get into shortly.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: God, please don't.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Before we do, Tommy, you're a State Fair veteran.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Thanks.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: What's the deal with this event? Why do candidates feel
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the need to go, and what are these campaigns trying
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: to get out of it?
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: So it's a couple parts. It's like tradition, it's fun,
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: and it's a chance to talk to voters directly. The
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: traditions are you go to the pork tent to flip
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: pork chops on the grill and, you know, seem like
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: a regular guy. You go check out the butter cow.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: It's a 600-pound cow made of butter. You check out
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: the giant steer that's sitting in some ag tent. And
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: then the Des Moines Register has something called the soapbox,
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: which gives you a chance to speak directly to voters
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: and take some questions. And then the Republican governor, Kim Reynolds...
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: has been hosting what she calls fair side chats.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I hate that.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: It has a terrible... Do you get it? I know.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: It took me a couple minutes though and I was like, oh,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: fair side.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: It hurts your ears. It hurts your ears.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: It's a trunk.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: It's not great. It's a trunk.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: It's a trunk.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Fair side chats.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Basically, she lobs softball questions at candidates in front of
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: an audience. And so, look, you know, like part of
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: your job is to have a good time. You go
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: eat some deep fried Twinkies. Barack Obama went on the
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: bumper cars with Sasha back in 2007. They went on
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: some other... rides and stuff.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: You see Meatball did that too?
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, he played some of the like kind
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: of rigged games you play where you shoot water into
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: a thing until you get a prize.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, we're not rigged. I think I've been twice and
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: the fried stuff is the best.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Look, success is, did you get some press coverage? Did
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: you talk to some voters? Did you come off looking
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: like a normal human being who actually has fun at
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: things like a fair? Yes. Okay. You did the fair, right?
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: And so in 2007, I think Normies saw clips of Obama, like,
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: riding on the bumper cars and chilling with his daughters
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: and thought, oh, that's a normal guy. I like him.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: I like his family. Actually, I think DeSantis kind of
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: succeeded in the same way for locals here. Like, he
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: walked around with one of his daughters on his shoulders,
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: seemed like a normal guy, went to the bumper cars.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Gave her the $ 20 he promised and they went home.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: On his shoulders? I think, you know, some of these people,
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: the voters are like, oh, that's a cute family.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: If you've got a better way to come up with
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: how we pick who's in charge of Medicare, I'd like
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: to hear it.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I don't think we've covered this enough. It's Deep fried Snickers.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Uh-huh.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Deep fried Oreos.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Pickles.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Deep fried pickles. Deep fried Twinkies. Love it. Have you had?
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Butter.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Butter?
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: Deep fried butter.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: That's tough.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Look, I love, as you know, I love fair food.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: It's something that, and people don't realize this, you don't
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: need to be at the state fair to eat like
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: you're at the state fair, which is something I, that's,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I put that on my tombstone. I was not there
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: for this, but in 2004, I guess it would have
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: been 2003, John Kerry went to to the Iowa State
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Fair and ordered a strawberry smoothie.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: That did not go over well. And so David Wade
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: or someone immediately tried to get him a corn dog.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Get a corn dog in his hand.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: What do you think this is, John Kerry? Anything that
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: has an ass day in Hollywood? You're in the Iowa
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: State Fair.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: Oh, man.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: That's a reference.
• 28:47
  Speaker 7: Oh, boy.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Six berries instructors get that one. I like the human
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: weird interactions. Someone handed Mike Pence a toothbrush. And said,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: keep smiling. Like, I think that's not ever going to
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: happen in six months because he won't be a candidate.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: So Trump's visit was pretty quick. He didn't grill. He
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: didn't sit down for the fair side chat with Kim Reynolds,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: probably because he's been attacking her for a month. He
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: rolled in with a bunch of Florida politicians, presumably to
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: troll Ron DeSantis. And he was gone by 2 p.m.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: on Saturday, but not before a quick speech where he
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: was introduced by Matt Gaetz. And then he was shouted
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: some questions that he answered.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: Let's listen.
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: We are having a great time at the fair. We
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: love standing with you.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: But we know that only through force do we make
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: any change in a corrupt town like Washington, D.C.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: President Trump, did you intend to overturn the 2020 election?
• 29:37
  Speaker 7: You know the answer.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: The answer.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, the answer is yes.
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Sure did.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: What do you think he meant by that? Because sometimes
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I can't tell if he's, you know, he goes through
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: phases where he's proud. He's like, yes, I did try
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: to overturn the election because the election was rigged. Sometimes
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: he admits it.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I think he's saying, you know, my answer to that
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: question is the election was stolen and I was trying
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: to get the right person.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: And you heard Gates. You got to make change through force.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: That's what they were doing.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: The force of our personalities.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: That's what they were doing outside the Capitol.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: In the same way that he's now claiming that if
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: you come after me, I'm coming after you was actually
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: about political action committees.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right. He doesn't like PACs. So the DeSantis people
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: are accusing Trump of snubbing Iowa. They said he's acting
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: like he's entitled to the nomination. How much do you
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: think any of this matters to Trump, Tommy?
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: I think it can matter on the margins. Like the
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Iowa caucus goers are a little bit pampered. They're used
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: to being catered to. And I think if they feel snubbed,
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: maybe that'll be effective. I think the bigger problem is
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: that Trump is just kind of half-assing it in Iowa.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, you mentioned he didn't flip pork. He had
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: his surrogates. The Florida congressman flipped the pork for him.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: What's up with that?
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Also, he's in his suit and his cufflinks and everything.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: The man's a star.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: You think he's going to do a cattle call? He
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: is a star.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I think you're right.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: And it's tough.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Also, these people will caucus for him. if he's sitting
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: in jail, they're probably gonna be upset that he missed
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the butter cow.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I think there's something like, first of all, I think
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: it is tough. I think it's tough to make the
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: argument that, that, that, that Trump is snubbing Iowa while
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: he's in Iowa. Uh, he was in Iowa at the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: time and yeah, he's not doing these events, these cattle
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: call events. Like he did, he didn't do the one where,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: you know, Tucker Carlson ripped Pennsylvania one, the Lincoln dinner.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: He didn't do this one. And do Joni Ernst.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He didn't do Joni Ernst one.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: And it's like, I couldn't remember what it was called.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: You know, he just seems bigger than all these people.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: sitting down for these things.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: His entire visit was designed to troll Ron DeSantis and
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: step on his coverage, though. I don't think that's, like,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: your bigger.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Well, I just think that, like, he does his own events.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: He doesn't go and sit down in the same seat
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: that Pence sat in, the same seat that Vivek Ramaswamy
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: sits in.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: He doesn't do that shit anymore. I would argue that
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: his attempt to troll Pence was probably more important than
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: his visit. Because, like, I think this whole primary... Like,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Trump is... It's a unique circumstance. Trump is this known quantity...
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: the vast majority of Republican voters, they know Donald Trump,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: they like Donald Trump, they think he did a great
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: job as president, and they are at least considering supporting
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: him again. So the question then becomes, is there any
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: other candidate out there who can present a credible alternative
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: to Donald Trump? And so it's more important for them
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: than it is for him. And he probably knows that.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: He's like, they all know me, I can do whatever
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: I want.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's probably right. I just think like, if you're
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: gonna fly your ass to Iowa, you might as well
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: stay for more than two hours and do some of
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: the stuff. Like, routinely, continually snubbing the very popular Republican
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: governor of Iowa is just stupid. Well, I think that's different.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: That is, I think, that's a case of just like,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: even now, his own campaign advisors are saying that it
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: was stupid to go this hard after Kim Reynolds.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: But I mean, that's sort of the context that this
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: was asked of Ron DeSantis. And yeah, Trump's campaign advisor
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: said the two biggest mistakes he's made are snubbing Kim
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Reynolds and having dinner with Nick Fuentes, the neo-Nazi with
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Kanye West.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I can't believe he admitted that weakness.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: The New York Times poll was 44 Trump, 20 DeSantis,
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: and then about half of Trump supporters said they would
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: consider other candidates. So is his strategy, is snubbing Iowa
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: going to hurt him? I kind of doubt it, but
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: he's not running hard to gain more support. So we'll see.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: So DeSantis did spend the weekend getting mocked by the
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Trump campaign. They interrupted his interview with Kim Reynolds by
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: flying a plane overhead with a banner that read, Be Likeable, Ron.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: That's funny.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: You know what? Every so often, a campaign that's like,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: you have an opponent, and you just, you got their number.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: And it just becomes really fun. It was like, us
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: and Romney in 12. It was like, Fetterman and Oz.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, you just, the Trump people, they are in
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: his head. They've got his number.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Be Likeable, it's such a funny command.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Be Likeable. And, This is the response that DeSantis got
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: from the crowd while he was flipping pork chops. That's
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: going to suck. We want Trump and we love Trump.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: There was a mix of both of those.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: But you know, it's not like when someone shouts something
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: like this at Pence or at DeSantis, they have some funny,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: charming quip to come back at them with. They're just like,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: They just sort of like glumly.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: It's not funny or charming.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I would say that's, I think, a deeper issue.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: The thing I want to know is, look, this trolling
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: certainly influenced the Twitter conversation and a lot of the
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: national coverage. I would love to know what was on
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: like WKCCI, the local TV. I bet you it was
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: a lot of B-roll of Ron DeSantis and all these
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: candidates having fun and talking from the soapbox and carrying
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: their kids around.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Well, so on that note, DeSantis' team told, has been
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: telling reporters, they told Political Playbook this. that they think
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: he's in a, despite all the shenanigans from the weekend,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: they think he's in a better position than Trump to
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: win Iowa. They said he is further ahead than Ted
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Cruz was at this point in 2016 when Cruz beat Trump,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: that he's in the middle of visiting all 99 counties.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: He's already got 10,000 caucus commitments. What do you think
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: of their argument, Tommy? Is it just spin or do
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: they have a point here?
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, 10,000 supporter cards at this point is not nothing.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: But Ted Cruz won Iowa with 51,000 votes. So he
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: has a long way to go. It is interesting that
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: the guy running DeSantis' super PAC is named Jeff Rowe.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: And he was also Ted Cruz's consigliere back in the day.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: The things DeSantis has going for him, he's buds with
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: Kim Reynolds, the governor. They're clearly investing in fields. He's
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: gotten some endorsements and he's doing all these bus tours
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: and like putting real time into the state. The questions
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: I have are, how does a super PAC run your
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: field program? That just seems confusing to me and- weird.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: The super PAC is setting up his events on these
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: bus tours. I just like, I just kind of don't
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: get it. And DeSantis really does have, uh, votes that
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: may piss off farmers on the margins, like ethanol, ag subsidies,
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: et cetera. He also has a terrible personality. So we'll
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: see how that wears.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Well, not like, not like Ted Cruz is winning any, uh,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: miscongeniality awards, but, but I, yeah, I do wonder too.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: It's like every, every four years, this gets worse. Like
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: the race being more national people already having a sense
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: of DeSantis and you know, Cruz kind of coming from
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: behind to win Iowa at the time was, it was
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: a lot about Trump too. The kind of the fact
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: that like things were coalescing around Trump and a lot
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: of people were really unsure about that, especially like the
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: evangelical right and the more conservative right. I just, I
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: just wonder if it's like, you know, you're going, look,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: he's not doing as bad as Cruz was and Cruz won,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: but A lot has changed.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, Tommy, I feel like that was a theme
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: of the limited series you did in 2020 when you
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: went out to Iowa, like the changing nature of sort
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: of the nationalized race versus local. Where do you think
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: we are right now in that?
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: I think that the race is incredibly nationalized. I mean,
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: we talked about how Tucker Carlson was asking questions at
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: a big Iowa Republican fundraiser that's about as nationalized as
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: it gets. I heard from a bunch of reporters this
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: weekend that, the sort of DeSantis disaster narrative maybe had
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: bottomed out and that he was starting to do better
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: than you would expect. That wouldn't surprise me. You also,
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: by the way, get better at campaigning as you go.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Like Barack Obama sucked for a while and then he
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: got better and better and better and started to hit
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: his stride. So the question, the broader question I have
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: is what is your strategy? Because the cliche about Iowa
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: is you don't have to win Iowa. You have to
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: exceed expectations and there's multiple tickets out of Iowa. What
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: does that look like for Ron DeSantis? Because if Donald
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: Trump wins Iowa, he didn't in 2016. What do we
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: think is going to slow him down going into South
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: Carolina a couple weeks later, where I think the last
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: poll had him with 50%, you know? I think this
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: is a little harder than it would be traditionally for
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: a DeSantis. Like, how are you going to put together
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: enough votes from Trump you siphon away, consolidate all the
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: never-Trump folks, or the sort of, you know, Trump-curious folks
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: who seem movable? I just, like, we haven't seen any
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: evidence that he's done that.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Because you can maybe, if you stretch... see a scenario
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: where Trump wins Iowa, DeSantis gets a close second, and
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: then New Hampshire does what New Hampshire does and rejects
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Iowa's choice and DeSantis wins New Hampshire somehow. But then
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you're right. You get to South Carolina, and it's an
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: extremely conservative electorate where Donald Trump is way out in
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: the lead. So our friend Tim Miller was in Iowa
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: for the state fair, and I was listening to him
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: on The Next Level, his Bulwark podcast, and he said
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: that DeSantis super PAC people were telling him that they
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: have started to think about a strategy. And they told
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: him it was okay to say this publicly, that they
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: are starting to think about a strategy and plan for
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: a possibility where DeSantis gets second in Iowa. DeSantis keeps
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: getting seconds and thirds and just piles up delegates, does
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: not get a majority. They don't even think he gets
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: a majority of delegates. And what happens is they get
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: closer to the convention because DeSantis has the second most
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: delegates after Trump. Jack Smith and Fannie Willis do their
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: jobs and suddenly Trump's in a big legal mess. And
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: there's a brokered convention. And they try to take it
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: away from Trump. I mean, the DeSantis people are saying this.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: That's the same exact. Can you imagine? That's also what
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Chris Christie has been telling people about his sort of
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: like what he thinks could potentially happen.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: This is madness. What in the Mueller time fan fiction
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: are you people talking about?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Pretty straightforward from here. Brokered convention where everybody gets behind
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: their favorite person, Ron DeSantis.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Also, there will be a couple of contests and then
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: the pressure Trump will put on everyone else to drop
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: out will be so intense. That'll be his whole message.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Drop out.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: We need to work together and beat Joe Biden. Which also,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Trump's electability argument. then is going to be, if it's
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: not me, I'm going to burn down the whole fucking party.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: So good luck. Good luck beating Joe Biden without me
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: and my supporters, who you're going to piss off and
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: you're going to take it away from me, even though
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I'm in jail or whatever he is. I mean, it
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: seems to be a few missing steps there. But the
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: whole point of it is, it does sound like fan fiction,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: but it is A little alarming if you're a DeSantis
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: supporter that people in a super PAC are laying out
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: that possibility now.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: If your strategy is to lose but hang around, probably
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: says something about the state of your hopes and dreams.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: So here's a Politico headline from the weekend. Pence is
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: having a moment. He qualified for the debate.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: I thought he might not qualify for the debate. He did.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: He leaned into his criticism of Trump's attempted coup at
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: the state fair. And the Iowans he met responded by
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: saying things like, I appreciate what you did, keep smiling,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: and this.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: I'm glad they didn't hang you. I'm glad they didn't
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: hang you.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: For emphasis, I'm glad they didn't hang you. I'm glad
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: they didn't hang you.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: So the person who said, I appreciate what you did,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: this is how this person is described. A man in
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: cut-off t-shirt, shorts, and hiking boots told him. And I
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: think it is a real disservice by that reporter to
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: not let us know if that's a country style or.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Gay style, right?
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Like what am I picturing? I picturing, is there a beer?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: What are we, what are, what are we, what am
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I looking at with this cutoff? Cause like that guy.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: That's the context for your visualization.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Because it's like, is this a person, is this a, like,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: is this a person of the Iowa state fair? Is
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: it a Republican or just some gay dude who's yelling
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: at Mike Pence in a way that I think is great.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Or like that guy that said, what do you think?
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Let's take an educated guess.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here and guess based on
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: a cutoff. A lot of people wear cutoffs. I don't know.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I can't picture the cutoffs.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Which a lot of people wear cutoffs and then talk
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: to Mike Pence.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: The guy that yelled, I'm glad they didn't hang you,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: he was in an Iowa City Yacht Club t-shirt, which
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: made me laugh because how could there be a yacht club?
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: It's Iowa. There's no water.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: It's famously landlocked.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: And so it's a music venue.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know if that guy's...
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that guy's a pro-Pence Republican. I
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: think he might be one of us.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Tommy? Do you think Mike Pence
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: is having a moment?
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: Are we asking about the cutoffs? I don't know if
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: he's gay there. Here's an actual Pence line from one
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: of his speeches that day. Somebody did tell me the
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: other day, they said, I get the feeling you've got
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: a little bias for states that start with an I
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: and end with an A. No one laughs.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: That may well be true.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Indiana, That was one of his big applause lines.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Holy shit.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: He is negative charisma. Okay, Politico, I know you have.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: A lot of I mean, I guess he's having a
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: moment in that websites to feed, but come on. Good
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: for him for like going out there and leaning into
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: the criticism of Donald Trump stuff. Like it's not going
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: to win him the Republican nomination because those people like
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: what happened.
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: If he could have one-on-one conversations with every voter, he
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: might be able to explain his constitutional duties on January 6th,
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: but I don't know that he's got the time.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think he'd make it through all the voters
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: because one of them would hang him.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: The Titanic is having a moment.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: I want to read you as.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Just after the iceberg.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just like, look, everyone's talking about the Titanic.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: This is from The Atlantic. So Pence is flipping burgers
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: and a reporter heard someone crowd whisper the following. Look
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: at him sweat, someone behind me said. He's a dweeb
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: and so is DeSantis, a young man from Cedar Rapids
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: named Jacob who declined to give his last name, told me,
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: you just want to take their lunch money. It's instinct.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: This is why the Iowa State Fair is fun. This
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: shit happens all over the state fair.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: So Pence will have to contend with not only Trump
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: and DeSantis... But first-time candidate Vivek Ramaswamy, a 38-year-old businessman
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: who's vowed to spend $ 100 million of his own money
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: on the race, two new polls now show him edging
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: out DeSantis for second place nationally. He's getting decent crowds
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: in Iowa. And that is despite doing this at the
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: state fair.
• 43:26
  Speaker 7: The clock's run out. Time's up.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: Overflow!
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: Step back to reality. Oh, there goes gravity. Oh, there
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: goes gravity. He's so mad, but he won't give up.
• 43:35
  Speaker 7: He goes back to his notes.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: He's so mad, but he's close.
• 43:39
  Speaker 7: He's so mad, but he's close. He's so mad, but
• 43:41
  Speaker 7: he's close. He's so sad, but he's close. He goes
• 43:44
  Speaker 7: back to his mobile home. That's when he's back to
• 43:46
  Speaker 7: the lab. He goes to his old restaurant. He better
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: go catch his moment. I hope I don't catch his moment.
• 43:51
  Speaker 7: Lose yourself in the music. The moment you want.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: I just want you to know i hated hearing that
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: it hurts so much it hurts he's done it so
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: many times he.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Loves it what's going on with this guy what's uh
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: what's the appeal what do you guys think the appeal
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: is for vivek.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the fucking appeal is this guy
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: i do i think part of it i think what
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: i what i was first of all there was some
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: there was some look at like his polling success and
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: some of it is based on like certain internet polls
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: where he's sort of like doing a little bit better.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: And those are polls where they're kind of pre-selected to
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: be part of this sample.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: So who knows?
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: But what I, it reminds me of just when Republicans
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: were casting about, and there was this period of time
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: where like Michelle Bachman was in the lead and like
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: other random people kept popping up and it wasn't, there
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: were things that were doing that were interesting to the
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: people hearing it. But for the most part, it was more,
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: less a story about the strength of that person and
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: more about just the weakness of the field and people
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: looking for an alternative.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: So someone sent me an Onion headline that says, ah, pissing.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: I love to piss, says Ron DeSantis, attempting to strike
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: a conversation with a voter. Sorry. Yeah, and Vivek, I
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: think he's doing a better version of I've got Trump
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: policies with an optimistic, positive vibe than Tim Scott is.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: I also think he's doing more extreme versions of a
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: lot of people's policies. Like he's going after that. super
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: isolationist anti-Ukraine crowd. We saw that in the event with
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: Tucker Carlson. He's tapping into the weird kind of Ron
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Paul conspiracy crowd. Ben and I last week talked about
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: a clip where he was sort of questioning the 9-11
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: attacks and the role of the Saudi intelligence with the hijackers.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: He's super anti-government. While Ron DeSantis is talking about slitting throats,
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: Vivek is saying he's going to fire 75% of the workforce. So,
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: you know, look, I think this is... You see this
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: happen early sometimes. There's a candidate that kind of catches
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: a little fire. They're not attacking anyone. No one's attacking them.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: I would like to see him take a punch, and
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: then what happens? I bet he has a bunch of
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: old statements that are getting dredged up by researchers as
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: we speak, and the rapping is horrendous.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Horrendous.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Horrendous.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: It's funny you said that you think he's doing, like,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: the more optimistic or the optimistic message better than Tim Scott.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: I thought he's, like, the version of Ron DeSantis that...
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: the all-in podcast wanted like he's very because in that
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: story that you're referencing a little bit about the polling
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: you know the other theory there is that he's doing
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: well with high information high interest republican voters college educated
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: they are paying more attention to the millions and millions
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: of dollars he's already spent on uh digital and tv
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: ads they they just know about them because they're followed
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: they're online they're terminally online right and he's charismatic Like,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: he's a charismatic, and he's appealing to some young Republicans who, like,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: for them, the anti-woke stuff is important. He's got, you know,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: he goes out there on the stump, and he's doing
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: his Ten Commandments. Number one, God is real. Number two,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: there are two genders. Number three, reverse racism is racism.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: And he gets, like, wild applause for this. He's getting
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: bigger crowds and better applause than Ron DeSantis.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: And I do think that there's a little bit of, like...
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: there's a, there's a reason that like Elon has appealed
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: to the right. There's a kind of like, it's actually
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: the same reason that Trump appealed to a lot of people,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: which is he has this business background. He talks about it.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: He has a kind of, he has that tech technocratic
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: way of speaking that seems smart and feels modern and
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: less creepy. Blake was an outsider and an outsider and
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: especially inside of the Republican party, which is how, you know,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: he is interesting and different in that he's talking about
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: these policies, but doing it with this sort of like,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: you know, Silicon Valley spin.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: He's also, I think, unemployed. So he's putting a lot
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: of time and effort in. He's been doing bus tours
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: for weeks. I think over time, you know, it bears
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: some fruit. Yeah.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: All right. Let's talk about the guy these Republicans are
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: trying to replace. Joe Biden and his cabinet are barnstorming
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: the country this week to celebrate the one year anniversary
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: of the Inflation Reduction Act. Happy anniversary, guys.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: But the president got some annoying news on Friday when
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Attorney General Merrick Garland announced that he's giving U.S. Attorney
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: David Weiss special counsel status for his investigation of Hunter Biden.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: whose plea deal with Weiss fell apart after the government
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: refused to guarantee immunity for future charges. Republicans who had
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: previously demanded that Weiss get special counsel status reacted by
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: accusing Garland and Biden of doing this to somehow protect Hunter,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: which makes no sense whatsoever. But Politico reported that people
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: inside the White House are worried that this will hang
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: over Biden's reelection. What do you guys think? How worried
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: are you? And how do you handle this if you're
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: in the White House, the Biden campaign, if you're a
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Democratic official? You know, I've seen a bunch of and
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: heard a bunch of strategists on background saying, like, Biden
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: and Democrats need to do more to distance themselves from Hunter.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: But I'm not sure what that would look like.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I think one of the challenges
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: is that, like, they've already done everything that you're supposed
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: to do to keep it separate from the White House.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: They're saying all the things you're supposed to say, not
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: saying really anything when they shouldn't be saying anything. I
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: think part of the challenge, right, is that, like, Merrick
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Garland has, I think, always He really kind of takes
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: in this idea that you have to seem impartial and
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: that if you're being accused of being politicized and you
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: have to go even further to try to prove that
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: you're not being politicized. And that's sort of been his M.O.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: for the entire time. No, it doesn't seem like it's
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: what he did here because it does seem like the
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: request came from Weiss. But it doesn't. But like and
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's telling that this move, which Republicans originally
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: had said was necessary, is now a sign that it's
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: even more corrupt than they ever could have possibly imagined.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: because the reality is that nothing about this becoming a
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: special counsel makes the special counsel more independent, because does
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: anyone doubt that what Merrick Garland was saying wasn't true,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: which is that this person had the freedom to make
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: their decisions however they saw fit?
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, just politically, I'm pretty worried about this.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: I think it's going to dog them for a while.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: I think reporters are going to feel pressure to cover
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: Hunter's trial like it's a Trump trial because they don't
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: want to be called biased. It'll be a huge distraction.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: And I think that so far, Republicans on the Hill,
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: despite having nothing to work with, have just been straight
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: up lying and saying that, oh, there's a connection to
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden that he's somehow profiting off of whatever Hunter
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: Biden was doing. And they're basically pushing on an open
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: door with an argument that is basically, look, all politicians
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: are bad. You know, they all do it. They're all corrupt.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: And that's just, I think that's something that's easy to
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: convince people of. And so I also don't really know
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: what it would mean for Democrats or Joe Biden to
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: distance himself from Hunter. Like, I think most Democrats are saying,
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: if he did something wrong, prosecute him. And that's what
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: I hear from most. For Joe Biden, again, like the
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: idea that he should shun his own child, I think
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: is fucking gross and only a DC argument you would hear. Again,
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: he lost a wife, lost a 13 month old daughter
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: and lost Bo, his older son. All of them have died.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: And if you read about, if you, I read Hunter's
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: book and it's a miracle that he is still alive.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: And the idea that Joe Biden is going to push
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: his son away in this very difficult chapter for political reasons,
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: I think You know, that's not something Joe Biden is
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: going to do. I do think if I were in
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: that in the White House, I would say you have
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: to stop getting so defensive when you're asked about this.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: Like Peter Doocy the other day was like asking about
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: the Devin Archer testimony that had occurred. And he, you know,
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: he just like criticized me, said it was a stupid
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: question or something like that. And it's like, no, it's not.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: You have to know this is serious. You know, be
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: a dad, answer like a human being. But I don't
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: think you can lash out at. people for asking, I think,
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: what will be perceived by almost every voter as a
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: legitimate question.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Well, particularly because the actions that Joe Biden has taken
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: or that his Department of Justice has taken are like
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: over and above what you're supposed to do here, right? Like, again,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden and Merrick Garland allowed a Trump-appointed U.S. attorney
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: who began this investigation under Donald Trump to continue his
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: job and then allowed him to have whatever powers he needed.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: And then he just said he wanted special counsel status
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: and they gave him that. So now there is a
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: special counsel who was appointed by Donald Trump, who is
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: free to investigate and charge Hunter Biden with whatever he wants.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: And he is within the United States government in Joe
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Biden's administration. And so like, you're right, like that he's,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: he's done all the right things. So you're right that he, he,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: that he doesn't, he shouldn't be so, you know, pissed
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he is.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I think there's like, I think, so I think that's
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: the sort of the, like the, political, legal argument, along
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: with making clear that all of this is tied back
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: to Hunter Biden, not to Joe Biden. But then there,
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: I think there's also this, like a human argument to
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: what Tommy was saying, which is, I think that there's like,
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: and this is not something that like Biden would be saying,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: but I do think it's something Democrats could be saying,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: which is something like, I think a lot of Americans
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: know what it's like to love someone in your family
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: who's struggled with addiction, made terrible mistakes in their lives.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: And and struggled with how to make sure you show
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: that person love while understanding that they've done the wrong thing.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: And I think that piece of it is something that
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: I think people have been... A lot of people just
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: find this whole story just hard to know what to
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: say and not wanting to give into it and just
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: wanting to go away. But I think you need that
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: piece of it.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: And I think where Republicans are trying to go with
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: this is not necessarily... They know that that's coming. So
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: I think what they're trying to do is you know,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: the two IRS agents that testified that were like, well,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the Department of Justice slow walked this. Now, the Department
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: of Justice, their contention is the Department of Justice slow
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: walked it starting in the Trump administration. So that doesn't
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: really make all that much sense. But that's out there.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: You know, Ted Cruz is out there being like, this is,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: it was basically Joe Biden who was getting all this
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: money because he was just selling, you know, selling Joe
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Biden's name. And perhaps Hunter was selling Joe Biden's name.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: But what they're going to try to do is connect
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: it to Joe Biden, right? They want, they know now,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: that to get Biden, they need Biden wrongdoing, and they
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: can't do the Hunter bank shot. I mean, they've done
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: the Hunter bank shot, but they know it's not as
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: fruitful as if they can get Biden.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: The right-wing ecosystem, Joe Biden is a criminal. It is
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: the Biden crime family. He is complicit in his son's crime.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: That's done. They're trying to get it into the mainstream,
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: and they don't have the goods to get it there.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Well, they want to subpoena the whole family's bank records
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: and all this bullshit.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't have the goods. I do think they've
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: gotten into the mainstream A considerable amount, considering how bullshit
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: it is. I fundamentally agree, though. I think if this
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: is a story about corruption and Joe Biden seems to
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: be defensively defending his son, that's a loser for them.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: If this is a story about imperfect families and addiction
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: and loving your son through thick and thin, I think
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: that's a very human thing that people can understand.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Finally, we got yet another weird story about RFK Jr.,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: the anti-vax conspiracy theorist who is for some reason attempting
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: to run in the Democratic primary. At the Iowa State Fair,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: he said he would support a national abortion ban after
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: the first three months of pregnancy. Was asked multiple times
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: by Ali Vitale at NBC News about this. Gave him
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to clarify. He kept saying, yes, no, this
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: is what I want. And then later, his campaign said
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: he misunderstood the question. What do you guys think happened here?
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: You think he misunderstood the question? I've read the transcript.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Doesn't seem like it to me.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I thought when I saw the transcript,
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: which is he sounds like some.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Rich Malibu whack job asshole who sits at some dinner
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: party and is just like, this abortion thing, it's actually solvable.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: I actually have the answer. And I just don't understand
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: why people don't get how simple this is. That's what
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: I just like a kind of just like a political
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: imbecile who thinks he's so brilliant and so smart that
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: he's like, has all these answers.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I look, I think the question initially was phrased
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: a little bit confusingly. But Kennedy then specifically says, I
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: believe that a decision to abort a child should be
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: up to the woman during the first three months. And
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: then he says that states have the right to limit
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: abortion access once a child is viable outside of the room.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: So he wasn't saying yes or no to a confusing question.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: He was affirmatively stating his views in his own words.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: And he also gets offensive about it. He says, look,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: I'm a medical freedom guy. I care about medical freedom. However,
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: I'm going to swerve and tell pregnant women what to
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: do with their bodies. And so I think you know, look,
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: it's like the 3,000th data point that this guy's not
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: really running for the Democratic nomination.
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: You know, if you're running for the Democratic nomination, you
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: know your position on abortion. You don't seem like you're
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: thinking about it for the first time in the ag
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: tent at the Iowa State Fair. What he has figured
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: out is that when you pretend to be running for president,
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: you get tons of press coverage and you spread your
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: crazy anti-vaccine conspiratorial views and he's just hacking the system.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: And I think, I hope that moments like this will
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: lead the media to reevaluate whether or not or how
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: often to cover him because he's full of shit, he's
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: not really running, and he's a liar. That statement is
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: a lie. You told us what you think.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: That was my first reaction because you've been saying this, Tommy,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: that he's not just a conspiracy theorist, he's a liar,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: and this is a perfect example of his campaign just lying,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: straight out lying. Before we get to Tommy's interview with
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Ruben Gallego, a few quick housekeeping notes. If you want
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: to chat about the Republican debate in a place that
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: isn't the platform formerly known as Twitter... You can join
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: Friends of the Pod to chat with us and your
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: fellow listeners on Discord so we can suffer through the
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: debates together. Subscribe to Friends of the Pod now at cricket.com
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: slash friends. One more thing. You've probably heard about the
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: devastating fires in Maui. The death toll and the damage
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: is truly horrific and they really need our help. We
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: briefly spoke to Senator Brian Schatz and he said that
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: the best place to donate is HawaiiCommunityFoundation.org. They have a
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Maui Strong Fund where 100% of the money will be
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: distributed to the community. That is hawaiicommunityfoundation.org. All right. When
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: we come back, Tommy talks to Representative Ruben Gallego about
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: his race to unseat Kyrsten Sinema.
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: Congressman Ruben Gallego represents Arizona's third congressional district, and he's
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: running for the United States Senate. Congressman, good to see
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: you here.
• 58:14
  Speaker 8: Thanks for having me, Tony.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Thanks for being in L.A. First thing, most important question.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: You just had a little baby girl. Yeah. Is she
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: traveling with you, or did you actually get sleep last night?
• 58:23
  Speaker 8: She's traveling with me. She's at my mother-in-law's with my
• 58:27
  Speaker 8: wife in Orange County. And I was feeding her last
• 58:31
  Speaker 8: night and then went to sleep and woke up, got
• 58:33
  Speaker 8: in the car at 5 a.m. and made my way
• 58:35
  Speaker 8: up here.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: So that's like, that's a good night's sleep.
• 58:37
  Speaker 8: It's a good night's sleep. Five hours straight. Absolutely.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's nice. I saw you release a statement announcing
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: you were taking paternity leave. Obviously, that makes sense to
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: do because your constituents in the press are going to say, like,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: why is he missing votes? They want to know where
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: you're at and stuff. But it did read a little
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: bit like you felt like you needed to defend the decision.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Do you think there's still a stigma around men taking
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: paternity leave?
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
• 59:01
  Speaker 8: I mean, you hear it all the time. You saw
• 59:03
  Speaker 8: Secretary Buttigieg got a lot of bad remarks, especially from conservatives,
• 59:08
  Speaker 8: that he was taking petrochemicals.
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: Leave.
• 59:10
  Speaker 8: I think that it is important that we take it.
• 59:12
  Speaker 8: Number one, it's good for the child, for them to
• 59:15
  Speaker 8: actually bond with the father, with the parent. But two,
• 59:18
  Speaker 8: it's good for your spouse. They need the support. It
• 59:21
  Speaker 8: is extremely difficult, obviously, in the first month, as you know,
• 59:24
  Speaker 8: in terms of the sleep cycle, in terms of hopefully
• 59:27
  Speaker 8: your baby is in colicky. you know, there's a lot
• 59:29
  Speaker 8: of appointments, all these kinds of things. And it's important
• 59:32
  Speaker 8: for you to be there physically and emotionally there. And
• 59:33
  Speaker 8: I think it's very difficult to do that when you're
• 59:36
  Speaker 8: also working at the same time.
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: And you're not getting a ton of feedback. I mean, look,
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: I have an eight month old and the first three months,
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: it's sort of like you feed them, you change them,
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: you burp them. That's about all you're getting.
• 59:46
  Speaker 8: But yeah, but you're trying to figure out also like
• 59:48
  Speaker 8: read the tea leaves or what are they feeling? What's
• 59:49
  Speaker 8: going on? Do you need to poop? Are you gassy?
• 59:52
  Speaker 8: What's going on here? Like it's all these like, you know,
• 59:55
  Speaker 8: guessing games and you're trying to figure out with your
• 59:57
  Speaker 8: partner and your spouse, like, what the heck is going
• 59:59
  Speaker 8: on with the baby at this point.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And it's also just fun to be around.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: It's a meaningful time. Speaking of our kids in the
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: future that we're going to hand over to them, Phoenix
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: just endured a month of temperatures, I think at 110
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: degrees or hotter. I read about people getting third degree
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: burns from the sidewalk. I guess the pavement got so hot.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: The Inflation Reduction Act, which went through Congress about a
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: year ago, included all these investments in clean energy that
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: over the long term will help us transition from fossil
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: fuels to clean energy and EVs, et cetera. But that's
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: going to take a long time to have the impact
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: we need. What more do you think the White House
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: should be doing now?
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 8: This is a long-term problem, but it needs short-term mitigation.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 8: And the problem when it comes to this type of
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 8: extreme heat is it affects poor people the most. And
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 8: what does that mean? If you are in Arizona, the
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 8: way you could deal with heat is you turn down
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 8: your air conditioning. Well, you do that, your electricity bill
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 8: is going to go up. That's fine if you're making
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 8: a good salary, but if you're working hourly... you're just,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 8: you know, right now are probably cutting into your savings, right?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 8: People that have to work outside, for example. You know,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 8: I used to do carpentry when I was growing up.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 8: I also worked outside a lot in the Marine Corps.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 8: Working in the heat, it's not great.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: It's not easy.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 8: And the people that do that tend to be your
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 8: working class people. So having rules about water breaks, about
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 8: making sure that they have like shade, they have some
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 8: cooling is really important. You know, one of the things
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 8: that I've been pushing the White House on in FEMA
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 8: is is to allow places to actually declare heat emergencies.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 8: And it sounds crazy, but it can get so bad,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 8: like we saw right now. We had more than 160
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 8: people already die because of heat that a lot of
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 8: these localities can't afford to actually mitigate. So how do
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 8: you deal with extreme heat? You put up cooling centers
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 8: for poor people. You put up water stations for people
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 8: to have hydration. That all comes out of a very
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 8: small tax base. But we can't ask FEMA for money.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 8: If you're in Boston where you're originally from and Massachusetts
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 8: has a horrible blizzard, even though they get snow all
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 8: the time, Massachusetts, Boston can ask for FEMA support to
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 8: help pay for paving, for getting rid of the snow
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 8: or for heating centers. If you deal with water in
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 8: the Northwest or in the Midwest, too much rain or flooding,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 8: you could always ask for FEMA. But if you ever
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 8: have to deal with extreme heat, no matter what part
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 8: you are in the country, FEMA will not be able
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 8: to help you.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: Wow, really?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: That makes no sense.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 8: And we've been pushing the female. They've been noncommittal. They
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 8: have the right to do it. They won't do it.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 8: But it's not just an Arizona thing. So we're used
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 8: to 105 degree weather. Now it's bad because it's 110
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 8: and above and doesn't cool down at night. But if
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 8: you go, for example, up to Seattle, if they get
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 8: to 100, they're not acclimated for that. They don't have
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 8: the buildings are made for that. They don't have the
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 8: air conditioning for that. And should something happen in Seattle
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 8: with that type of extreme weather, they can't ask for help.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 8: from FEMA. So this is just a very simple thing
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 8: that deals with the reality of what's happening now. We
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 8: know that climate change is here now. Let's give the
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 8: tools for these localities and municipalities to deal with this.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 8: And hopefully in the long run, we could start turning
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 8: the corner when it comes to climate change.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And just so people know, I mean, the impact
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: isn't like people are uncomfortable. It's death. Death. I saw
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: a stat that the 2022 heat wave in Europe killed
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: led to like 60,000 excess mortalities.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 8: And it's the most, it's our most vulnerable people.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 8: Uh, that, you know, it's your, your elderly, it's your
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 8: people in poverty. Uh, it's your people that are, are
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 8: unfortunately addicted to drugs. It's your unhoused people. All those
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 8: people tend to be the first ones that, that go,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 8: that die, unfortunately. And, you know, many of them don't
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 8: really have a strong constituency or they don't have like, uh,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 8: an interest group that supports them. So this is why
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 8: members of Congress need to step up and really demand this.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: Uh, you mentioned earlier, you served in the Marine Corps.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville is single-handedly blocking every single military
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: promotion in the armed forces because he's mad that the
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: Pentagon provides support to.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 8: Because he's a shithead, yeah.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: Because he's a terrible person. And because he's upset the
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: Pentagon provides support to women and families in need of
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: abortion services. You call this a selfish political stunt. You
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: said it hurts military readiness. It endangers national security. Can
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: you explain to listeners what you mean by when you
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: say military readiness is endangered?
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Well, very simple.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 8: You know, Women that need abortion care, and if they're
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 8: in a state that doesn't provide that, are now not
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 8: going to be able to take paid time off, which
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 8: is we are giving them paid time off that they've earned,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 8: to go to travel to a state to receive that
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 8: abortion care for whatever reason it is. Tommy, probably getting
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 8: knocked too many times around the head, has decided to
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 8: block a lot of the promotions of some of our
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 8: top leaders. Some are top leadership positions. For example, the
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 8: head of the Marine Corps is now acting.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Why does that matter?
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 8: So the acting commandant can't give directives and orders to Marines.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 8: Could only give guidelines. So if he needs to change
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 8: anything with the Marine Corps, it has no force of law.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 8: And that's happening in many of the other services too.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 8: Number two, readiness. If you're a woman right now, a
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 8: young woman, do you want to join a military that's
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 8: not going to give you the freedom to travel should
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 8: you need an abortion for whatever reason possible?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 8: You know, being in the military, you already give up
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 8: a certain amount of liberty. And you understand that. You
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 8: understand to give up your liberty, some amount of liberty
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 8: for your country. But to say to a young woman,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 8: you come join the military, but we will take away
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 8: your right to control your body, by the way, but
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 8: we expect you to protect everyone else's rights, is absolutely ridiculous.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 8: And someone like Tommy is doing this for a political stunt,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 8: but it has real, real world ramifications.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, what do you think these, you know, not
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: just Tommy Tuberville, it's, you know, Ron DeSantis is always
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: whining about the woke military, you know, just like constantly
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: running down the military and all these ridiculous crowds. What
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: do you think that kind of language means for recruiting
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: and people's desire to join an organization that's constantly getting
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: attacked or has become, you know, the, the NDAA, the,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: the defense authorization bill got loaded up on the house
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: side with all these crazy culture war bills. Like, what
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: does that tell people?
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 8: Well, I think it's tough to recruit. I think, first
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 8: of all, the Ron DeSantis of the world, all these
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 8: people think the military, the people you recruit in the
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 8: military are entirely different than it actually is. The military
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 8: right now has to be diverse because the population of
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 8: the country is diverse, right? The young population that you
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 8: want to recruit is not 80% white and Southern. It
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 8: is very, very multicultural. It's Latino, Afro-American, Asian, immigrants, gay, women. And, um,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 8: Making it accepting and welcoming is going to be important
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 8: for you to recruit them, right? If you make it
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 8: to seem that this is like a good old boys network,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 8: you're less likely to get some of these people in
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 8: that you need and are qualified. Lastly, I think what
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 8: I think is funny is like these guys, the Santas
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 8: of the world, the Cruzes of the world, their example
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 8: of like the archetype like strong man, anti-woke is Russia.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 8: Russia's getting their asses kicked by a woke Ukrainian army
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 8: that is open to everybody, right? Russia is not even
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 8: the second strongest army in Europe. It's not even the
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 8: second strongest army in Ukraine right now. And it's getting kicked,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 8: its ass kicked by people wearing, having earrings and talking
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 8: about their partners. So this idea that we don't have
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 8: the strongest military is bullshit. We have the strongest military,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 8: most professional military in the world And like these countries
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 8: like Russia, even like China, would kill to have the
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 8: men and women that we have on the family that
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 8: they could actually execute on. Tommy Tummerville just doesn't understand that.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 8: He's just a guy that snorts up the Fox News.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 8: information and just like try to spit it out and
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 8: doesn't really understand the real nuances of the military.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, people like Ted Cruz love to retweet these Russian
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: propaganda videos and criticize the military.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 8: Yeah, half the guys in those Russian propaganda videos are
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 8: dead already.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 8: Probably taken out by some, you know, millennial like hitting
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 8: a button on a high Mars and laughing the whole time.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Sticking with the issue of abortion, I mean,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: Democrats have been running and winning on restoring abortion access
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: ever since Roe versus Wade was struck down. You recently tweeted,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: I'm running for U.S. Senate to codify Roe. Can you
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: explain what that means and how we can accomplish it
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: and how you think the issue is going to factor
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: into your campaign generally? It's something you're hearing about a lot.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 8: Well, number one, it factors in because Arizona is a
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 8: pro-choice state. Planned Parenthood Arizona was started by Peggy Goldwater,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 8: one of the famous Goldwater families. It's still somewhat of
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 8: a libertarian state, and they want people to keep their
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 8: hands off our bodies and to make sure that women
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 8: have liberty and autonomy over their bodies. So number one,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 8: I think that is a salient campaign issue that people
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 8: are going to vote on, especially women, especially young Latinos
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 8: and Latinas. It's going to be on the ballot. We're
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 8: going to run a Michigan-like initiative to codify it. And
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 8: number three, I do think that now that the Supreme
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 8: Court has struck down a row, we should pass a
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 8: national protection to the right to an abortion. We will
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 8: not be able to do that with certain centers right
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 8: now that won't overturn a filibuster to do it, but
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 8: I will. It is a right for women to have
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 8: that opportunity and have that choice. And the fact that,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 8: you know, some senators don't recognize the need for that,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 8: I think is a very sad statement.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: When you talk about the need to modify the filibuster,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: do you mean using getting rid of it in instances
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: like codifying Roe? Is that something?
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 8: Yeah, like I would say at a minimum in terms
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 8: of instance of codifying rights, right, to have a very
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 8: illiberal means of governance that does not found the Constitution
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 8: of the United States. to stop the rights of individuals,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 8: the Voiding Rights Act, for example, is another one. ENDA
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 8: is another one, as well as abortion rights, I think,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 8: is another one. We should at minimum have the ability
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 8: to reform the filibuster for that, at a minimum. And worse,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 8: if we're not getting to the point where things happen,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 8: then we do get.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: Rid of it.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: Got it. Another issue that is likely to dominate the
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: campaign going forward is Donald Trump's various crimes in court cases.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: We're sitting here waiting for Something. Something to happen in Georgia.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: You know, it hasn't yet. There's a lot of debate
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: about how much Democrats should or should not talk about
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: these criminal trials in the upcoming campaign. Is this something
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: you're hearing about on the trail? And do you think
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: it's going to be something you talk about?
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 8: I'm not hearing about it on the trail, to be honest.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 8: I mean, look, it's a sad situation we're in. The
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 8: fact that a president of the United States has put
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 8: himself in this situation and he did it on his own.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 8: But it's still sad that the country has to go
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 8: through this. The most important thing is for us to
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 8: have the rule of law. and to execute on that,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 8: no matter who you are. And nobody's above that. But
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 8: what I do think is, since I don't hear about
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 8: it on the campaign trail, we shouldn't avoid it, but
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 8: it shouldn't be our campaign slogan and our logo. Because
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 8: people really do care about what is going to happen
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 8: to their everyday lives. What does the future look like?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 8: And while I think a lot of people are worried
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 8: about the illegal activities that the president may have conducted,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 8: and that's why there's a court case taking place, maybe
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 8: they may not be ready to vote on that. Now,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 8: I think there's other places for us to have conversations about.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 8: We should be talking about the fact that this president
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 8: is a threat to democracy. He certainly acted illegally, in
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 8: my opinion, on January 6th. I think that's something we
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 8: should be talking about. I think people understand that. You
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 8: saw that in 2022, people coming out to vote to
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 8: protect democracy. And I think when we kind of couch
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 8: that in that way, that's a better approach, because then
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 8: they actually understand what that means to them. They actually
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 8: see the effect of potentially putting something like that in
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 8: power again.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, sometimes we talk about the need to
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: protect democracy and it seems sort of obvious, but kind
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: of ill-defined, you know, is this like an anxiety that
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: you hear and come up when you're talking to voters?
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 8: And it's enough, you know, it's not an everyday conversation,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 8: but enough that people, you know, people care about. And
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 8: I remember in 2022, I actually, I was running a
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 8: political organization. We polled on it. And the pollster came
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 8: back and said, like, it's not an issue you should
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 8: run on. And I said, I just don't, I think
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 8: you're wrong. I just, in my gut, knew that that
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 8: was wrong. And, you know, I talked to a lot
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 8: of the candidates I was helping out. I told them, like,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 8: this is something you should be talking about. And then
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 8: they went and mocked Biden when he said in the
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 8: Biden campaign at that point when they were talking about
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 8: the need to defend democracy, it ends up that they
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 8: were right and I was right. I think at the
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 8: end of the day, you know, there are some true
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 8: universal American values. And the idea of, safeguarding democracy for
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 8: not just us for our future is something that is
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 8: very sacred and it does cross certain amount of party
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 8: lines and certainly did in 2022.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, another issue that I'm almost certain will be
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: a big part of your campaign and the presidential is immigration. The,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: the situation, the border, you know, the sort of narrative
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: around it was crisis levels right at the end of
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: last year. Uh, then there was a big anxiety about
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: the repeal of title 42, uh, which was this Trump
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: era policy that allowed the government basically to kick out
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: everybody seeking asylum under health reasons. But surprisingly, there hasn't
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: been a surge. The Biden administration put in place a
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: bunch of ad hoc asylum policies based on specific countries.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: Those policies were controversial, but they seem to have drastically
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: reduced the number of unlawful border crossings. What's your view
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: of the situation on the border and Biden's handling of
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: it at this point?
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 8: Look, I think he's done a decent job. I think
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 8: there's more to be done. Number one, I think we
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 8: have to make the border communities whole. And what I
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 8: mean by that, it's like not all border communities are
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 8: the same, but a lot of border communities are dealing
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 8: with the influx of asylum seekers and taking on the
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 8: toll of dealing with it. So that means higher calls
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 8: for emergencies, hospitalizations, police efforts, humanitarian efforts. So we should
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 8: be giving money support to these local communities because really
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 8: at the end of the day, it's our broken immigration
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 8: system that they're dealing with this situation. It's not their
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 8: fault and it's not the fault of the local taxpayers.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 8: So helping them at least in that regard is important.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 8: The one thing that we saw by the regulations that
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 8: the president has put in terms of where you can
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 8: ask for asylum and has better reduce the amount of
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 8: asylum seekers coming to the border shows us that it's
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 8: a really good example. What happens when you give people
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 8: legal pathways to ask for asylum and or to ask
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 8: to get into this country legally. They will take it, right?
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 8: So I believe that what we should do is really
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 8: build on that. We should give people an opportunity to
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 8: ask for asylum in their home country or another home country,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 8: give them a fair hearing or, and that's just for
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 8: asylum seekers, or for other people that want to come
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 8: to this country, give them the visa that if they
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 8: earned it and if it's needed for them to come
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 8: and work and do it legally. Nobody wants to pay
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 8: a coyote $ 20, 000 when they could have a legal way
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 8: to come to the United States, whether it's asylum seeker
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 8: or whether it's someone looking to just work here temporarily.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 8: From my personal experience, I was born in Chicago, but
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 8: lived in a border state called Chihuahua, Mexico. My family
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 8: used to cross the border all the time to come
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 8: back and forth and work. It was very easy. They
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 8: would come over and I'm assuming a lot of them
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 8: did it with visas. I think some of them may
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 8: have not done it, but they crossed over, worked for
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 8: six months, whatever they were, whether it was in the
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 8: fields or in the factories or in the construction business.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 8: And then they would come back to Mexico to spend
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 8: the rest of the time with their family. If we
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 8: give people that option, I think they're going to take it.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 8: And then you can have Border Patrol really focus on
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 8: the bad guys, the guys that are really the human traffickers,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 8: the bones that are really the cartel, not just people
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 8: coming over to come work at your local factory, farm,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 8: or taqueria.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: The Republican conversation on the 2024 primary about immigration has
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: gotten so extreme. You got Trump saying we should shoot
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 3: border crossers in the knees. You got Ron DeSantis saying
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: he'll take direct lethal action, maybe even drone strikes against
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: drug traffickers. Now, he doesn't explain how you will differentiate
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: a drug trafficker from a pregnant woman with a backpack
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: full of her baby's stuff. He just says, oh, we
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: figured it out in Iraq. We'll figure it out here.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 8: We did not figure it out in Iraq.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It seems like there were some real challenges there.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: What do you make of where this debate has gone.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: And do you think, are those arguments working in a
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: place like Arizona that is like on the front lines?
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 8: No, I mean, those arguments work more in, you know,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 8: the Midwest than they do in Arizona. I mean, we're
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 8: used to the border, right? You know, we have cross
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 8: borders all the time. You know, Arizonans go to Mexico
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 8: all the time. A lot of us own condos. I don't,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 8: you know, just don't make that type of money, own
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 8: condos in Rocky Point, right? We have to watch the
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 8: traffic report going south during, you know, the holidays because
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 8: there's so many teenagers and college students to go to Mexico, right?
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 8: The war zone crossing the border that one talks about.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 8: The largest migration of humans legally happens in the United States,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 8: happens every day at the Yuma border when about 6,000
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 8: Mexican nationals cross every morning to go pick our crops.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 8: As a matter of fact, we are so dependent on
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 8: that cross-border traffic, legal cross-border traffic, that during COVID, we
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 8: had to give an exception to the border in Yuma
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 8: in order for us to get bodies to cross over
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 8: And take out the crops from the fields or else
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 8: they're going to rot, right? If you go down to
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 8: the border, there are Starbucks, there's literally a Starbucks right
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 8: almost in front of the border wall. You could literally
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 8: look out that Starbucks and see the border wall. One
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 8: of the busiest Walmarts is in Santa Cruz County. When
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 8: you talk to the commissioners there, Their biggest complaint is
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 8: that that Walmart is so busy it backs up traffic, right?
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 8: And I bring this up because the border is not
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 8: a war zone. The border is a real place. The
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 8: border is part of America. The people that are there
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 8: are Americans. And these politicians are using them and trying
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 8: to make them non-American, trying to make them as not
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 8: part of America. These idiots are wearing flak jackets while
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 8: they're walking around the border. I've worn a flat jacket.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 8: I wore a flat jacket for seven months. I know
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 8: when to wear a flat jacket and when to not
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 8: wear a flat jacket. There's no place in the United
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 8: States where I need to be wearing a flat jacket.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 8: And certainly it's not at the border.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not Ted Cruz with a Fox News camera crew.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: But to your point, like every election, right, there's a
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: new caravan that's come in. Absolutely, yeah. And this year,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: everyone has Ebola. And this year, it's full of ISIS members.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: You're saying like those arguments don't really fly.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 8: They don't fly as hard. They don't hit as hard
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 8: in Arizona as they do in some places. Now, it
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 8: doesn't mean it's not an issue as in the fact
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 8: that we should deal with this, but do it in
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 8: a realistic and mature manner, right? Let's try to figure
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 8: out how to make this a more predictable way for
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 8: people to come to the United States transparent way. Let's
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 8: try to figure out how to weed out the good
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 8: guys from the bad guys. Let's try to rectify the
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 8: situation that we've, you know, de facto allowed 10 million
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 8: people to live here and now they're living in the shadows.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 8: Let's get them out of the shadows, pay their taxes.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 8: Those that have criminal, you know, have done, condemned themselves
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 8: in a criminal manner need, to leave. Those that have
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 8: not need to pay a fine and stay and get,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 8: you know, go through the process, become legal permanent residents.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 8: But this scare tactic that keeps happening every cycle, nothing
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 8: ever happens when the solution is for us to have
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 8: a very sane comprehensive immigration reform that allows us to
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 8: really focus on the bad guys and allow the good
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 8: guys in.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So there are reports, back to your Senate race,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: that some reports out now that failed gubernatorial candidate and
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: bona fide lunatic, I would say, Carrie Lake is gearing
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: up to now she'll be running for Senate in 2024.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: That means the race could be you running as a Democrat,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: Kyrsten Sinema as an independent, and then Carrie Lake as
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: a Republican. How worried should we all be that Kyrsten
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: Sinema could be the spoiler who sends Carrie Lake to
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: the U.S. Senate?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 8: So all the polling that we have seen, all the
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 8: polling that we have conducted ourselves and outside people shows
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 8: us the opposite. Kirsten Sinema takes more from the Republicans.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 8: If you want more information, go to our website, www.gallego4arizona.com.
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 8: Also a great place to donate. Just throwing that out there.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 8: And it will tell you, will show you exactly what's happening.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 8: Every poll shows that she pulls more from Republicans.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: And why is that?
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 8: Kirsten and really Carrie Lake just aren't matching up with
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 8: the values of Arizonans, right? You know, Carrie Lake is
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 8: so focused on 2020 and 2022 that, you know, Arizonans
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 8: are worried about 2030, 2030. They're worried about anything but
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 8: the past election. And, you know, I think the values
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 8: that Kirsten has shown just don't match voters anymore. And
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 8: so when you go and you ask voters consistently who
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 8: they're going to vote for, it's always the same outcome.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 8: Either I'm in first place in a three-way race or
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 8: I'm in first place in a two-way race. Now, you
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 8: have to run a race no matter what. Arizona is
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 8: a swing state. You never know what's going to happen.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 8: But if we raise the money we need to, we
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 8: hit the doors we need to, we work with the
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 8: volunteers that we have, we're going to win this election.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: Do you expect the party to get behind you, the
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: DSCC and others, and put money into the race?
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 8: I think at the end of the day, if you
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 8: look at the fundamentals of this and you see who
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 8: is the strongest candidate, who can hold the seat for Democrats,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 8: there's no way that you don't end up supporting this race.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 8: There's a reason why we have more than 100,000 individual donations.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 8: We have 100,000 people that have given, on average, $ 28
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 8: through our website, gallego4arizona. com, consistently. And we are out-raising them.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 8: We have the money and the excitement to really go
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 8: the long way and raise what we need to do
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 8: to win this. There is no other candidate that can
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 8: do that. There's no candidate that can put the coalition
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 8: together to win this race in Arizona, Democrat or Independent.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people just look at Kyrsten
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: Sinema and are just like, what is going through her head? Like,
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: I would love to intern on a vineyard, too, someday,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: but not when I'm a United States senator. Like, that's
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: a weird thing to do when you're a senator is
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: head off to a vineyard and be an intern. Like,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: she went from Green Party member to voting to protect
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: hedge funds and pharma. Like, I don't know. You're obviously
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: not a shrink, but, like, what the hell is going
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: on there? What do people think happened to her?
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 8: But first of all, like I grew up working on
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 8: a ranch. I'm not going to get interned to.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: That's like a slide back for me, right?
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 8: It's like doing like charity for labor. It's not a thing.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 8: And it doesn't really matter in the end. What I
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 8: know right now is that when I'm out there talking
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 8: to voters and we have town halls all the time
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 8: throughout the state and we're not shying away from red places.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 8: You know, whether it's outside of Maricopa, rural areas, we're
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 8: going to visit our Native American brothers and sisters. What
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 8: we are hearing is, number one, they want responsive leadership.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 8: They want someone to actually talk to them, you know,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 8: doesn't treat them as if they're, you know, not, doesn't
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 8: treat them as if they're not deserving of attention and
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 8: or explanation, right? Because I don't think I'm ever going
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 8: to be 100% in alignment with my constituents, right? But
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 8: I do think that I will always be 100% accountable
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 8: to my constituents. I'll be there to talk to them.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 8: I'll answer to them. I think a lot of them
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 8: want someone that actually cares about them and doesn't care about,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 8: you know, this last, you know, two election cycles that,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 8: you know, what you're hearing from Carrie Lake. And, you know,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 8: that's all we can really focus on. We do our job.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: We go out there.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 8: We make ourselves accessible. We talk to the voters. At
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 8: the end of the day, we're going to be able
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 8: to beat the Carrie Lakes of the world or the
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 8: Kyrsten Sinemas of the world.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, you mentioned that Kerry Lake and the
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: kind of madness of 2020. I mean, obviously Joe Biden won,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: but it turned into this circus afterwards of cyber ninjas
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: and people trying to dispute the election results. Yeah, it
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: sounds terrible. How are you feeling about Biden's chances in
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: Arizona going into 2024 and what else do you think
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: they need to do to cheer it up?
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 8: Okay, I think Biden has a really good chance in Arizona.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 8: I think we need to focus on our successes. Arizona
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 8: is a booming state. because a lot of the actions
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 8: that the Democrats have taken. And what are we looking at?
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 8: For example, the infrastructure law has been great. We're building highways,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 8: laying down broadband to our rural areas, to our Native
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 8: American areas. We're doing massive growth in technology and manufacturing
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 8: when it comes to chips. I mean, this is the
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 8: first time, and I think this is not just like
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 8: a good Arizona story. It's a great America story. Manufacturing
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 8: is coming back to the United States. high-end manufacturing. You know,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 8: when I was growing up, the conversation was that it
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 8: was all going over to Asia and other parts of
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 8: the world. And now we have the biggest chip manufacturing
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 8: plant in the world being built, you know, in Phoenix
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 8: and all the other kind of businesses that are aligned
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 8: with that. The fact that we've turned around, you know,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 8: more than, you know, three decades slide in manufacturing in
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 8: less than two years is a credit to Democrats. The
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 8: fact that seniors are paying way less now in pharmaceuticals
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 8: and don't have to travel to Mexico to get or Canada,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 8: depending on what closest border you have to get cheap pharmaceuticals,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 8: is a big, big deal. We need to be talking
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 8: about this stuff every day because I don't see the
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 8: other side talking about successes. I don't see the other
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 8: side talking actually about anything that looks for the future.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 8: The other side wants to talk about kind of grievance politics,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 8: about who you should hate and who you should be
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 8: scared of. I don't think Americans want to live that way.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 8: I don't think Americans want to vote for someone else
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 8: because they're telling you who to hate and who you
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 8: should be afraid of. They want to vote for ideas.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 8: They want to vote for a positive, bright future. And
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 8: whatever is coming from the other side, whether it is Trump,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 8: whether it is Kerry Lake, it's just not going to sell,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 8: especially not in Arizona. In Arizona, it's a very aspirational state.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 8: People are moving there to start their lives. They're not
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 8: going to want to invest their political energy in someone
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 8: who's going to tell them what is behind them instead
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 8: of what's going forward.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm a donor to your campaign. I think we
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: all wish you the best of luck. We want to
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 3: see you win, and good luck out there. Thanks for
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: coming in. Thank you.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 8: Thanks for having me back.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Ruben Gallego for joining, and we'll talk to
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: you Thursday. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are Andy
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: Gardner-Bernstein and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 1:26:11
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