Latest / Becker’s Payer Issues Podcast / Medicaid, Food as Medicine, and the Future of Coverage with Kelly Munson

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Medicaid, Food as Medicine, and the Future of Coverage with Kelly Munson · Becker’s Payer Issues Podcast

• 0:02
  - GLP ones, Medicare Advantage Headwinds, a Medicaid landscape
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  - Their leadership right now means making durable decisions
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  - organizations pulling ahead are the ones that stopped
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  - Becker's fifth annual fall payer issues roundtable convenes
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  - shaping how care gets financed
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  - Click events in the upper right.
• 0:51
  - Hi, everyone. This is Liz Caslo with the
• 0:53
  - Becker's Payer Issues podcast. I'm really excited today
• 0:56
  - to be joined by Kelly Munson, president and
• 0:58
  - CEO of Independence Health Group. So, Kelly, thank
• 1:01
  - you so much for joining us today.
• 1:03
  - Thanks, Liz. Good to be here.
• 1:05
  - We're excited to have you. And so I
• 1:07
  - would love to get started by talking about
• 1:09
  - your role at Independence Health Group and just
• 1:12
  - your background more generally. Yeah. You know, Liz,
• 1:14
  - I, I don't know that I started out
• 1:17
  - thinking that I would end up being my
• 1:20
  - entire career in managed care, but I I
• 1:22
  - was in college one day and I found
• 1:24
  - out that the school lunch program
• 1:26
  - was considering ketchup a fruit. And at that
• 1:29
  - time, you had to have three fruits or
• 1:31
  - vegetables
• 1:32
  - in the lunch program. And I remember being
• 1:34
  - so irate about that,
• 1:36
  - and then started doing some research on what
• 1:38
  - the school lunch programs did for children,
• 1:40
  - what it meant for education, what it meant
• 1:42
  - for test scores,
• 1:44
  - and just got so ingrained in the world
• 1:46
  - nutrition,
• 1:47
  - dietetics, preventative care, making sure people's needs are
• 1:50
  - met, had
• 1:51
  - in leading a healthy lifestyle and being able
• 1:54
  - to educate and work going forward. And so
• 1:56
  - I just dove right into it and realized
• 1:59
  - that managed care is a place that has
• 2:01
  - programs that specifically address those things. So,
• 2:05
  - I've spent most of my career
• 2:07
  - on the national stage running Medicaid and Medicare
• 2:11
  - health plans and ACA across multiple states and
• 2:15
  - am now sitting at, Independence Health Group, which
• 2:18
  - has been pretty amazing because I get all
• 2:20
  - lines of business. I get the national presence
• 2:23
  - of AmeriHealth Caritas,
• 2:25
  - who's in 13 states and DC,
• 2:27
  - on the Medicaid stage and the dually eligible
• 2:30
  - for Medicare and Medicaid and ACA. And then
• 2:32
  - I have this very local Philly centric,
• 2:35
  - you know, largest health insurer,
• 2:38
  - of commercial business, traditional Medicare and ACA. So
• 2:42
  - I really get to see the life cycle
• 2:43
  - kind of across all lines of business, and
• 2:46
  - I get to see that both locally and
• 2:48
  - then in a national stage. So it's been
• 2:49
  - an incredible experience so far.
• 2:52
  - So maybe we will start talking a little
• 2:54
  - bit about that Medicaid point. So, you know,
• 2:56
  - last year, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act
• 2:58
  - included some pretty major proposed changes
• 3:01
  - to Medicaid,
• 3:03
  - you know, from work requirements to more frequent
• 3:06
  - eligibility checks. So given your background in that
• 3:09
  - space,
• 3:10
  - what do you think managed care organizations should
• 3:12
  - be thinking right now as
• 3:14
  - they are starting to see these changes roll
• 3:16
  - out? And,
• 3:17
  - what do you think the program structure will
• 3:19
  - look like in the coming years and how
• 3:20
  - are y'all adapting?
• 3:22
  - Yeah. Well, listen. I'm I'm gravely concerned about
• 3:25
  - the changes that were made. If you've been
• 3:26
  - in Medicaid
• 3:28
  - a long time, you understand and know
• 3:30
  - that it is often the procedural aspects and
• 3:33
  - the administrative
• 3:34
  - aspects
• 3:35
  - where people lose coverage, not because they actually
• 3:37
  - should have lost coverage. And we know that
• 3:39
  - coverage leads to
• 3:41
  - lower costs later. When people have access to
• 3:44
  - their medication
• 3:45
  - and are not off of it, then they're
• 3:46
  - not going to the ER in two to
• 3:48
  - three months,
• 3:49
  - and having services that are done. So,
• 3:52
  - the the fact that now people are going
• 3:55
  - to have to go through the administrative process
• 3:57
  - and I like what's happening out there where
• 3:59
  - they're talking about imagine if you had to
• 4:00
  - do your taxes two times a year. Right?
• 4:02
  - All the gathering and the fact information,
• 4:05
  - that you have to supply in order to
• 4:07
  - be eligible, and then
• 4:09
  - you know that county
• 4:11
  - and state systems don't naturally are not the
• 4:14
  - same systems, they don't always talk to each
• 4:16
  - other. So the administrative
• 4:17
  - requirements related to this are going to throw
• 4:20
  - people off coverage that absolutely should be covered.
• 4:23
  - And then those hospitals are gonna have uncompensated
• 4:25
  - care cost when they wind up in the
• 4:27
  - ER because they were not taking their diabetes
• 4:29
  - medicine.
• 4:30
  - And then the hospitals are gonna come after
• 4:32
  - the commercial insurers and wanna increase the rates,
• 4:34
  - and it's gonna get more expensive for employers.
• 4:37
  - So this is a cycle. And the same
• 4:39
  - is true on the work requirements, you know,
• 4:41
  - 92%,
• 4:42
  - depending on where you are of the of
• 4:44
  - the the people who participate in the Medicaid
• 4:47
  - expansion programs work already
• 4:49
  - and or their caregivers or medically frail,
• 4:52
  - and they're gonna have to prove that in
• 4:53
  - a whole different way. And I think this
• 4:56
  - narrative that everyone on Medicaid is sitting around
• 4:59
  - not doing anything is is a really wrong
• 5:01
  - narrative that's being sold. So I'm greatly concerned.
• 5:04
  - We had Georgia go live with work requirements
• 5:06
  - in Arkansas.
• 5:07
  - You saw
• 5:09
  - thousands of people drop off the roles because
• 5:11
  - of that who otherwise were eligible because of
• 5:14
  - the admin requirements, so that cycle started.
• 5:17
  - One of the things that we're doing that
• 5:19
  - I think is really important is we developed
• 5:21
  - a, economic sustainability
• 5:24
  - program,
• 5:25
  - which is how do we make sure people
• 5:27
  - are aware of where they can get work
• 5:29
  - or where they can volunteer
• 5:30
  - or where they can go to school to
• 5:31
  - count for work? How do they have access
• 5:34
  - to sign up for that? How can we
• 5:36
  - help them in resume may help
• 5:38
  - on the proper clothing,
• 5:40
  - if they've been incarcerated, on how to kind
• 5:42
  - of interview through that,
• 5:44
  - as they come out?
• 5:45
  - And then making sure we're working with the
• 5:47
  - workforce boards.
• 5:49
  - We developed an app so that members could
• 5:51
  - store information on that app, and then we
• 5:53
  - can share it with states that otherwise might
• 5:55
  - need it if they don't have a like
• 5:57
  - app so that we can make it easy
• 5:59
  - to show that that people are actively engaged
• 6:02
  - in work. And then, of course, we will
• 6:04
  - be, you know, doing lots of notifications
• 6:07
  - and because the the trick of this is
• 6:09
  - people even knowing. I mean, not a lot
• 6:11
  - of people are real into their mail anymore.
• 6:13
  - Right? So it's like, do people know and
• 6:15
  - understand this change is coming and how do
• 6:17
  - we avoid them dropping off? Because the most
• 6:19
  - important thing we could possibly do is assure
• 6:21
  - that people should be covered,
• 6:23
  - are covered
• 6:24
  - because they deserve that and because it's going
• 6:27
  - to keep the cost in the healthcare system
• 6:28
  - lower.
• 6:30
  - So pivoting a little bit, I know earlier
• 6:32
  - in your intro, you were talking about nutrition
• 6:34
  - being a driving factor of you pursuing managed
• 6:37
  - care.
• 6:38
  - So I know you're passionate about food as
• 6:40
  - medicine. Can you fill us in about what
• 6:42
  - Independence Health Group is doing there, and what
• 6:45
  - is something that's worked for one of your
• 6:47
  - plans that you think can translate across markets?
• 6:50
  - Yeah. Well, listen. I'm always shocked even when
• 6:53
  - I'm at the doctor and I'm talking
• 6:56
  - about anything and I talk about how nutrition
• 6:59
  - played into that or what I'm going to
• 7:01
  - do from a nutrition perspective, and and, you
• 7:04
  - know, doctors a lot of doctors will stop
• 7:05
  - and act like that's not quite as important
• 7:09
  - as it is. And if you consider the
• 7:10
  - top causes of death in this country, a
• 7:12
  - lot of them
• 7:14
  - stem from
• 7:16
  - a nutrition related issue, right, what we put
• 7:18
  - in our bodies, the preventative care. And think
• 7:21
  - about how important nutrition is as you're healing,
• 7:24
  - right? So what a burden if you don't
• 7:26
  - have access to food, and we know that
• 7:28
  - eighteen million people in this country have food
• 7:31
  - insecurity. Right? It's thirteen percent.
• 7:34
  - And all of a sudden you're trying to
• 7:35
  - heal, and you go home and you really
• 7:37
  - don't know what you're gonna be putting in
• 7:39
  - your body in order to heal from a
• 7:40
  - surgery or treatment or anything you've been getting.
• 7:43
  - So, what we found
• 7:45
  - is it's the number one barrier,
• 7:48
  - social barrier that people have,
• 7:50
  - and it makes it hard to get past
• 7:52
  - anything else when you don't have proper food.
• 7:54
  - And, for instance, when we send members home
• 7:58
  - with, who have just been admitted to the
• 7:59
  - hospital and are coming home to heal with
• 8:01
  - food,
• 8:02
  - we know that they're much less likely to
• 8:04
  - have a readmission.
• 8:05
  - And that's just a fact. When we send
• 8:07
  - food to moms who otherwise don't have a
• 8:09
  - steady stream of food or connect them with
• 8:11
  - services that get them food during pregnancy,
• 8:14
  - we know that they have better birth outcomes,
• 8:16
  - and we know that they end up in
• 8:17
  - the ER a lot less because they have
• 8:19
  - access to that food. I'll I'll give you
• 8:21
  - a story that I think is really impactful.
• 8:24
  - A a long time ago, we were working
• 8:25
  - with a plan,
• 8:26
  - and there was a member who was constantly
• 8:28
  - ending up in the ER 13 times in
• 8:30
  - six months in the ER for high blood
• 8:33
  - pressure. And the member was like, I'm following
• 8:35
  - protocol. I'm following food protocol. I don't understand
• 8:37
  - why I'm ending up. And one of our
• 8:39
  - nurse care managers was out with the member
• 8:42
  - and realized that the member had lots of
• 8:43
  - pickles in their refrigerator.
• 8:45
  - The member was eating a jar of pickles
• 8:47
  - a day. Now, protocol doesn't say a pickle's
• 8:49
  - bad for you, but a jar of them
• 8:51
  - when you have hypertension is bad and the
• 8:53
  - member didn't realize.
• 8:54
  - And so, we stopped that process with the
• 8:56
  - member, it would took us going in the
• 8:58
  - home and understanding and realizing it, the member
• 9:00
  - didn't end up in the ER again. That's
• 9:02
  - less cost. So, this play on nutrition, nutrition
• 9:05
  - education, nutrition literacy,
• 9:07
  - and making sure that people have proper foods
• 9:09
  - and partnering with agencies like MANA who are
• 9:12
  - are assuring that people with chronic conditions have
• 9:15
  - food
• 9:16
  - is one of the most important things that
• 9:17
  - we can do, and we absolutely know that
• 9:19
  - people are more likely to stay out of
• 9:21
  - the hospital and get their preventative care when
• 9:24
  - they have the proper food.
• 9:26
  - As a follow-up to that, I am curious
• 9:28
  - with the landscape right now with make America
• 9:32
  - healthy again.
• 9:33
  - Like, is that something that you see
• 9:35
  - taking more precedence in health plans in the
• 9:37
  - years to come? I I was actually just
• 9:39
  - having a very similar conversation
• 9:41
  - specifically about Medicare Advantage and food,
• 9:45
  - as a benefit in some form. So I
• 9:48
  - would love to hear what do you think
• 9:49
  - could be on the horizon with that given
• 9:51
  - the current landscape.
• 9:53
  - Well, I think there are some good things
• 9:54
  - coming out of Make America Healthy Again. I
• 9:56
  - think,
• 9:57
  - certainly, the dyes that we see in foods,
• 9:59
  - the fact that
• 10:01
  - lunch meats and nitrates just got labeled as
• 10:03
  - a level one carcinogen, and that that's known
• 10:06
  - and that we can warn people and say
• 10:07
  - this is really not something good for your
• 10:09
  - diet, and we know that it leads
• 10:11
  - potentially to something else,
• 10:13
  - are really important and proactive steps. And, you
• 10:16
  - know, the touting of exercise, the touting of,
• 10:19
  - like, making sure that things are more natural.
• 10:21
  - And, you know, when when I've talked to
• 10:23
  - the administration, they're like, we don't want people
• 10:25
  - to just have access to to food. We
• 10:26
  - want them to have access to food that
• 10:27
  - is healthy. We want them to have access
• 10:30
  - to food,
• 10:31
  - that is not the, you know, the cheap
• 10:33
  - kind of get a burger somewhere food, but
• 10:35
  - actually, you know, fruits and vegetables, which, by
• 10:38
  - the way, in my experience,
• 10:39
  - I have experienced children at a food market
• 10:42
  - for the first time picking out
• 10:44
  - vegetables and fruits on their own that they've
• 10:46
  - never been able to do before, and it's
• 10:48
  - really powerful and impactful. So, I think in
• 10:51
  - in that way, we're going in the right
• 10:52
  - direction. I mean, I I don't know that
• 10:54
  - we're going in the right direction when we're
• 10:56
  - thinking about, you know, vaccines and other things
• 10:59
  - that otherwise, you know, might be preventative and
• 11:01
  - important. So, I think there's gotta be good
• 11:03
  - balance and really good talk with our medical
• 11:05
  - community and make sure that the science and
• 11:07
  - the and the, policies are matching up, but
• 11:11
  - I think this is a step in the
• 11:12
  - right direction on several of the items. And
• 11:14
  - I think food
• 11:16
  - and healthy food has become much more front
• 11:19
  - and center,
• 11:20
  - and I'm gonna support those policies that encourage
• 11:23
  - that.
• 11:24
  - So changing things up a little, you know,
• 11:27
  - Independence Health Group has a really substantial footprint,
• 11:29
  - which is something you had talked a little
• 11:31
  - bit about earlier. And one trend I've been
• 11:33
  - seeing is just there are some smaller health
• 11:35
  - plans that are affiliating. They're expanding their markets.
• 11:38
  - What advice do you have,
• 11:40
  - when it comes to managing regulatory complexities
• 11:44
  - across markets?
• 11:45
  - And how does your team navigate that?
• 11:48
  - I think the most important part is to
• 11:50
  - realize that every single market is very local
• 11:53
  - and very individualized,
• 11:55
  - and you can't go in on a national
• 11:57
  - platform and think that you're going to meet
• 11:59
  - the needs of any in particular market. So
• 12:02
  - you have to be hyperlocal. And I think
• 12:03
  - that's one of the most exciting parts about
• 12:05
  - health care, sitting down with a state who's
• 12:08
  - otherwise in a budget crunch,
• 12:10
  - who has a certain demographic, who have certain
• 12:12
  - health conditions,
• 12:14
  - and being able to work with them on
• 12:16
  - their program
• 12:17
  - and figuring out how to save money, but
• 12:19
  - also how to increase and improve the health
• 12:21
  - outcomes, and how to how to see within
• 12:23
  - that landscape how to make people healthier
• 12:26
  - is the most important thing we can be
• 12:27
  - doing. And it starts with understanding that you
• 12:30
  - have to bring your capital strength. So if
• 12:33
  - you're across multiple health plans, you've been able
• 12:35
  - to see a lot. You understand what's happening
• 12:37
  - in other places that may be beneficial to
• 12:40
  - any state, But you first have to make
• 12:42
  - sure that you really understand
• 12:44
  - that state that you're in, and that you
• 12:46
  - are
• 12:47
  - honoring and respecting
• 12:49
  - all the demographics, and what the views of
• 12:51
  - the administration are, and what the goals they're
• 12:53
  - trying to accomplish.
• 12:55
  - And then bringing your national expertise. We have
• 12:57
  - recently put together a document for several of
• 12:59
  - our states that say, here are ways that
• 13:02
  - this program could save money
• 13:04
  - in Medicaid,
• 13:05
  - and here's other states who are doing it
• 13:07
  - and how much money they've saved and when
• 13:09
  - they started doing it and what the repercussions
• 13:11
  - were. If we can share that information with
• 13:13
  - any one state and be that for them,
• 13:16
  - then they're spending less time trying to gather
• 13:18
  - it and we're getting right in there with
• 13:20
  - them to help solve kind of the issues
• 13:22
  - that are so my my advice to those
• 13:23
  - other plans is just
• 13:26
  - understand it's always hyperlocal,
• 13:28
  - but bring your expertise to bear and offer
• 13:30
  - it up as suggestions,
• 13:32
  - not as know it all or mandates. Right?
• 13:35
  - Because the the true is partnership. And and
• 13:37
  - I'll I'll end with
• 13:38
  - on that question. It's really, really important that
• 13:40
  - you bring the providers into it too because
• 13:42
  - there's nothing more important than making sure that
• 13:44
  - you understand the providers, the landscape, what they're
• 13:47
  - facing in order to truly kind of help
• 13:49
  - the state improve on those on cost and
• 13:51
  - clinical outcomes.
• 13:53
  - So another trend that has been happening a
• 13:56
  - lot recently are these big ACA exits,
• 13:59
  - from certain from some companies. So I would
• 14:02
  - love to hear what sorts of untapped
• 14:04
  - opportunities you think there are with the ACA?
• 14:06
  - What do you think the future of that
• 14:07
  - looks like,
• 14:09
  - and how is your team,
• 14:11
  - approaching that?
• 14:12
  - Yeah. So it's it's hard. Right? It's hard
• 14:14
  - to see again. It's hard to see people
• 14:16
  - lose coverage
• 14:17
  - who otherwise had their their subsidies and were
• 14:20
  - doing well on the plan. And and we're
• 14:23
  - getting care. You know, maybe for the first
• 14:25
  - time, we're making sure that they were actively
• 14:27
  - receiving care, actively on their medication.
• 14:29
  - And that's what I always worry about here.
• 14:31
  - I worry about anytime someone loses coverage, what
• 14:33
  - does it mean for the medication that they're
• 14:35
  - on, and what does that mean for their
• 14:37
  - kind of health overall if they're having to
• 14:38
  - make difficult choices. And we know millions of
• 14:42
  - people lost coverage through the the sunset of
• 14:44
  - the enhanced subsidies.
• 14:46
  - And I respect every plan's decision.
• 14:48
  - You know, this is a tough healthcare environment,
• 14:51
  - actually.
• 14:52
  - If you think about regulation
• 14:53
  - and you think about the rising healthcare cost,
• 14:55
  - you think about the aging population,
• 14:58
  - you think about the use of AI now
• 15:00
  - in billing,
• 15:01
  - which is new and is increasing the cost
• 15:04
  - and the number of codes per episode of
• 15:06
  - care. There's a lot of reasons why healthcare
• 15:09
  - is increasing, and,
• 15:11
  - quite frankly, I think it was difficult for
• 15:14
  - some plans to be able to maneuver through
• 15:16
  - that and some of the uncertainty.
• 15:18
  - But all the indications are, if you can
• 15:20
  - maneuver through the uncertainty,
• 15:22
  - if you can have a sweet spot in
• 15:24
  - the pricing where you're keeping affordability
• 15:27
  - in mind, but you're also, you know, trying
• 15:29
  - to make sure that you're keeping up, if
• 15:31
  - you're working on value based care with providers,
• 15:35
  - if you're working with the the government on
• 15:37
  - policy to try to make this, you know,
• 15:40
  - going forward reasonable.
• 15:43
  - I think there's a two to three year
• 15:44
  - where there's gonna be some struggle, but it's
• 15:46
  - going to kind of even out, and that's
• 15:48
  - kind of how health care goes in cycles.
• 15:50
  - Right? We see it in cycles.
• 15:52
  - There becomes a need, too many people lose
• 15:54
  - coverage, you start to see some of the
• 15:56
  - minds shift when you realize that there's a
• 15:58
  - real effect on the healthcare ecosystem for that.
• 16:00
  - And so, things like really making sure that
• 16:03
  - we're fighting for health savings accounts
• 16:06
  - and individual coverage health reimbursement arrangement plans. Those
• 16:09
  - are things
• 16:10
  - we're gonna fight for and hopefully
• 16:12
  - the environment will evolve to see that's needed.
• 16:15
  - You know, you go through some of these
• 16:17
  - swings in Medicaid where you see the states
• 16:19
  - were kind of underfunding the programs for a
• 16:21
  - while after COVID and now you see the
• 16:23
  - funding levels are coming up. You see it
• 16:25
  - in Medicare.
• 16:26
  - And I do think that for ACA, we'll
• 16:28
  - see it kind of come back and level
• 16:30
  - out because we just simply can't afford
• 16:33
  - in this country
• 16:35
  - not to assure that there are affordable healthcare
• 16:37
  - options for people, period.
• 16:39
  - And that I think is going to rule
• 16:41
  - the day.
• 16:42
  - So you just mentioned ICRA's, I'm curious what
• 16:45
  - the strategy is there and, what trends you've
• 16:48
  - been seeing
• 16:49
  - with your organizations
• 16:51
  - when it comes to ICRA's? I feel like
• 16:52
  - I've been having a lot of conversations about
• 16:54
  - ICRA's lately, so I'm curious to hear. I
• 16:56
  - I think they're very interesting. I think every
• 16:59
  - state is kind of in a different space
• 17:01
  - with ICRA,
• 17:03
  - and, certainly, we don't see as much movement
• 17:06
  - in Pennsylvania
• 17:07
  - at this time when it comes to to
• 17:09
  - that that product.
• 17:11
  - But, I mean, they're all
• 17:13
  - options that have to be on the table
• 17:15
  - for us to say,
• 17:17
  - is there a way to make this more
• 17:19
  - affordable? That's it. It's
• 17:21
  - how many people can we give access to
• 17:23
  - and how can we assure that it's affordable,
• 17:25
  - and ICRO is a mechanism to do that.
• 17:27
  - And so,
• 17:28
  - we of course are developing strategies around it
• 17:31
  - and you have to make sure kind of
• 17:33
  - launch time is right, that the market wants
• 17:35
  - it, that they're hungry for it, and, you
• 17:37
  - know, we haven't seen it as much. But
• 17:38
  - I do think that it's a viable option
• 17:40
  - and that, it's something that will grow in
• 17:43
  - popularity in the future. You just saw
• 17:45
  - some of our competition, you know, even have
• 17:47
  - launched ICRA within their own plan,
• 17:50
  - and are, and are all kind of offering
• 17:52
  - it to certain employees or employees in certain
• 17:55
  - states to kind of test out the theory.
• 17:57
  - I think we'll see more of that and
• 17:58
  - we'll play a little bit too.
• 18:01
  - So thinking more big picture about your role
• 18:03
  - just for our listeners for context,
• 18:06
  - Kelly is the first female CEO of Independence
• 18:08
  - Health Group. So what advice do you have
• 18:11
  - for other leaders entering
• 18:14
  - the health care c suite, who may have
• 18:16
  - been historically underrepresented,
• 18:19
  - and what has your experience been?
• 18:21
  - Well, it's funny because I was,
• 18:24
  - I was thinking back. I I recently got
• 18:26
  - asked a question. I was thinking back in
• 18:27
  - my career a little bit, and
• 18:29
  - one thing that I know is that at
• 18:31
  - every stage of my career,
• 18:33
  - like, I came up through the operational aspects.
• 18:35
  - I can pay claims, customer service. Like, there's
• 18:38
  - almost nothing I I don't know about the
• 18:39
  - operations of of the health plan environment.
• 18:43
  - And I remember just
• 18:44
  - knowing that and being, you know, COO of
• 18:46
  - a plan. And when I was ready to
• 18:48
  - be promoted, they were like, well, you're so
• 18:50
  - operational.
• 18:51
  - Can you be strategic?
• 18:53
  - And then when I was running all of
• 18:55
  - the external
• 18:56
  - and all of regulatory affairs and government affairs,
• 18:58
  - it was, well, you're so external. Can you
• 19:00
  - be internal? Can you be operational?
• 19:03
  - And I realized that women face
• 19:05
  - a little bit of a different dynamic than
• 19:07
  - men in the workplace in that if they're
• 19:09
  - really good at something,
• 19:10
  - there's a question of, can you be good
• 19:12
  - at something else? I don't think we do
• 19:13
  - that with men in our environment. I think
• 19:15
  - if men are really good at something, they're
• 19:16
  - like, well, we'll put them over here, they'll
• 19:18
  - be really good at that too. But women,
• 19:20
  - there's some open question with, well, can you
• 19:22
  - do all of that? And
• 19:24
  - so, I I think what I've seen in
• 19:27
  - my career, the the
• 19:28
  - the advice that I would give
• 19:31
  - is that
• 19:32
  - just because women are good at something doesn't
• 19:34
  - mean they're not good at lots of things,
• 19:36
  - and you have to really make your intentions
• 19:39
  - known.
• 19:40
  - I see male counterparts all the time coming
• 19:43
  - in saying I wanna move ahead, I want
• 19:44
  - the promotion,
• 19:46
  - making it and declaring it, or sometimes I
• 19:48
  - see,
• 19:49
  - females
• 19:50
  - that are
• 19:51
  - just simply saying I should have been tapped
• 19:53
  - on the shoulder, but not declaring and making
• 19:54
  - it known. So, my advice is always take
• 19:56
  - up space, make it very clear your intentions,
• 19:59
  - go after it, do not wait until every
• 20:02
  - box is checked. There has never been one
• 20:04
  - time in any of the roles that I've
• 20:06
  - assumed,
• 20:07
  - that all the boxes were checked. I just
• 20:09
  - knew that there was no one who was
• 20:10
  - gonna be more willing to learn and work
• 20:12
  - hard than me, and
• 20:14
  - I think, you know, what did the what's
• 20:15
  - the statistics men go when they have 60%
• 20:18
  - of the boxes checked and women need, like,
• 20:20
  - 90%? So, you know, my advice is to
• 20:23
  - be bolder, make your intention known, and you
• 20:25
  - have the right to take up space.
• 20:27
  - And women's voices are really, really important in
• 20:29
  - this landscape and we have to make sure
• 20:31
  - that they are heard.
• 20:33
  - Yeah. And I think that's excellent advice beyond
• 20:35
  - just health care too. I feel like I
• 20:37
  - hear stories like that all the time,
• 20:39
  - from people in my life.
• 20:42
  - So as we wrap up, do you have
• 20:43
  - any broader advice? I know we touched on
• 20:45
  - a lot of different topics today, but do
• 20:47
  - you have any advice for health plans right
• 20:48
  - now? Any anything else that you wanna share
• 20:50
  - while I have you here?
• 20:53
  - Just that,
• 20:54
  - for all health plans and anybody in this
• 20:56
  - ecosystem
• 20:58
  - that whatever we can do, whatever programs, however
• 21:01
  - we need to partner and combine differently, and
• 21:03
  - we're doing that a lot with hospitals and
• 21:05
  - providers, and I see in states
• 21:07
  - health plans combining together that are otherwise competitors
• 21:11
  - to figure out what we're going to do
• 21:12
  - to keep people covered.
• 21:13
  - This is a time where we all have
• 21:15
  - to step up to say, what do we
• 21:17
  - need to put forward to assure access is
• 21:19
  - there?
• 21:20
  - And I think innovation
• 21:22
  - and how we control healthcare cost, and I
• 21:25
  - know that health plans
• 21:26
  - are not setting the cost of healthcare, right?
• 21:29
  - But, we play a key role in bringing
• 21:32
  - in, all of the stakeholders together
• 21:35
  - to make sure that we can have a
• 21:36
  - talk about more innovative ways to pay,
• 21:39
  - paying for quality, paying for outcomes, more than
• 21:41
  - paying for transactions.
• 21:43
  - And it's going to take a fundamental shift
• 21:45
  - in how we think.
• 21:46
  - So, you know, if anything, I just encourage
• 21:48
  - people to be at the table
• 21:50
  - and having the discussion that we don't have
• 21:52
  - all the answers right now. We need to
• 21:54
  - come up with answers, it's important that we
• 21:56
  - do.
• 21:57
  - And,
• 21:58
  - and at the end of the day, it
• 21:59
  - is to assure that every single person
• 22:02
  - that should be covered is covered
• 22:04
  - and that we make it affordable.
• 22:06
  - That's really, I mean, that's the dream, right?
• 22:08
  - But
• 22:09
  - but that's what we all need to be
• 22:10
  - shooting for.
• 22:12
  - Well, Kelly, thank you so much for taking
• 22:14
  - the time and joining us today.
• 22:16
  - I appreciate it. Thanks so much.
• 22:18
  - Yeah. It was great to have you. And
• 22:20
  - to our listeners, if you'd like to hear
• 22:21
  - more podcasts from Becker's Healthcare, you can visit
• 22:24
  - beckershospitalreview.com.
• 22:26
  - Thank you.