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[REPLAY] STSE #17: Responsible Rescue with Christy Cole · Sometimes There's Side Eye

0:12
Welcome to Sometimes Their Side Eye, a podcast about two friends
0:16
having real and unfiltered conversations about dogs and
0:20
people. Listen as we talk about our
0:22
lives with dogs, training, behavior, share some laughs and
0:26
a whole lot of banter. I'm Heather.
0:29
And I'm Christy. And we have a special guest this
0:32
week and we're very excited to have her.
0:35
This week. We have Christy Cole, who is the
0:38
Executive Director and Board President at Desert Harbor
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Doberman Rescue of Arizona, which I'm sure we'll call DHDR
0:46
to make life easy. So welcome, Christy.
0:51
Thank you for having me, it's so fun to be us.
0:53
We are thrilled to have you. And so everyone knows this is
0:56
Christy's first time on a podcast, which we're so excited.
1:02
I believe that Christy and I actually met, and I couldn't say
1:06
how many years ago. Was Thiago a puppy?
1:09
Yeah. Yeah.
1:10
OK. So it's probably about six years
1:13
ago at a barn hunt competition. So dog sports brings people
1:18
together, right? It was awesome to get to meet
1:21
you and realize that we had so much in common.
1:24
Yeah. And then of course we connected
1:26
on socials and just totally aligned.
1:29
Yes, and that's how the world goes nowadays.
1:32
And this is my first time meeting Christy, so I'm super
1:36
excited to meet you. And I've heard so many good
1:38
things about you and the rescue you run and all the good work
1:42
you're doing. So I'm excited you're on the
1:44
show with us. Thank you.
1:46
Feeling is likewise. Yes, I know everybody.
1:49
We have a Christy and a Christy, but hopefully you've listened
1:52
before so you know our Christy Mcneely's voice and you'll be
1:55
able to follow along. Christy, do you want to tell us
1:57
a little bit about yourself and maybe if you're fostering
2:01
anybody currently or what your dog status is?
2:04
Yeah, So I think you covered what my role is.
2:07
I'm also a certified professional dog trainer and I
2:10
spend most of my days working a day job, so do consulting and
2:14
marketing, but most of my time is spent doing dog stuff,
2:17
getting out, hiking, adventuring.
2:19
So that's, that's really me in a nutshell.
2:21
I don't have any dogs at my house right now.
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It's so quiet. I'm on a little foster break.
2:25
We had a rescue up in Northern California and the woman died
2:29
and she left behind 35 dogs. So I yeah, it's it's sad.
2:35
So I've been working double duty on that, partnering up with her
2:37
son and another rescue up there to try and get all 35 of those
2:41
dogs placed and moved. So no fostering at the moment
2:44
while I focus on that. Yeah, well, that's a huge
2:47
undertaking. I can't even imagine.
2:50
Yeah, and I saw you post that and I shared it on my page.
2:54
They have so many all ages and so many cute dogs available
2:58
through them. Right now we're down to seven,
3:00
so we're almost there. Wow.
3:02
OK. So it'll.
3:03
Work if anybody's listening and they're thinking about
3:05
fostering, Hey, DHDR has some Dobermans that they're looking
3:09
to make have come into foster, so that's awesome.
3:13
So you're taking a break from fostering.
3:15
Makes sense. That's a huge undertaking to go.
3:18
And how far away is the area where these dogs are?
3:23
They're pretty far. They're up in Northern
3:24
California. They're actually closer to
3:26
Oregon than than anywhere else. OK, so definitely not just a
3:32
little day trip. Yeah.
3:34
Wow. How did you personally become
3:37
involved in rescue? Did you start with another group
3:40
or did you just kind of fall into where you are?
3:44
How did this start? A little bit of both.
3:47
So about 15 years ago, I was married.
3:51
I was young, I was married. I bought a Doberman puppy from a
3:54
backyard breeder. I had no clue what I was doing.
3:57
A month later got divorced. I had this terrible little
4:04
puppy, the guy, it was so hard. She was horrible.
4:07
I didn't know what to do with her.
4:09
And so I just dove in and I researched, I took classes, I
4:13
networked with as many people as I could.
4:15
And that led me to the world of rescue.
4:18
And I had no idea there was a Doberman rescue.
4:20
I didn't know that much about Dobermans, honestly.
4:23
And I started volunteering and it was a really hard time in my
4:27
life. And it sounds so cheesy.
4:30
Some people have heard this story before and every time I
4:32
tell it, it just sounds so cheesy.
4:34
But we love cheese. It really unlocked a piece of me
4:39
that, you know, I was like missing.
4:41
I finally felt like I found a purpose in life.
4:44
I, I just became so much more independent and confident as an
4:48
individual. I felt like I became happier and
4:51
more complete as a person. And, and I guess from that
4:53
point, it was kind of like an addiction.
4:55
So that's how I got into into rescue and volunteering.
4:59
Wow, it sounds that does not sound cheesy at all to me like
5:02
that sounds. I feel like when you're able to
5:06
like give back to other people, you find your passion and you
5:09
find a sense of accomplishment. And so it it makes sense that it
5:13
would make you feel more complete.
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You know that you found your people and and your place.
5:19
It sounds inspirational. Yes.
5:21
If I go too deep on it, I start to think what is what is behind
5:26
altruism? Is it, is it just that, you
5:28
know, it's like, are we, are we altruistic for because it just
5:33
makes us feel better? That's a different podcast.
5:36
We could probably have you back and talk about that and just go
5:39
down like a philosophy, you know, rabbit hole.
5:45
But I completely understand what you're talking about.
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And if you don't mind me asking, Christy, you said that you
5:50
didn't know much about Dobermans.
5:53
What made you decide to get a Doberman puppy?
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The person I had married grew up with dobermans and I always
6:02
thought they they looked cool and seemed like fun dogs and I
6:05
grew up with dogs. I grew up with labs so just got
6:09
a Doberman and then and then had to figure it out on my own.
6:12
And so this Doberman stayed with you, though she.
6:17
Was terrible but I loved her. I was gonna say it.
6:19
She was gone before me. I mean, before I met you.
6:23
What was her name? Her name was.
6:24
Millie, Millie OK and Millie forced you to learn.
6:30
Yes, she forced me to learn it. I you know, I messed her up.
6:35
Like I, I can look back and say I was a part of you turning out
6:41
to have some problems. I mean, she had every problem
6:43
you could potentially have. And part of it was genetics and
6:46
part of it was me not knowing what I was doing.
6:48
She, you know, I took her to dog parks.
6:50
I used overly aversive training, like way too early or at all.
6:54
She, you know, she had separation anxiety.
6:56
She had, she was dog reactive, she was leash reactive.
7:00
She had hot spots from her anxiety she had, and then she
7:03
had physical stuff like Von Willebrand's DCM, which I'm sure
7:06
we'll talk about later. Wobblers, everything.
7:10
She had everything. But I wanted to treat all of it.
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And so I, I just loved her so much even though she was just
7:16
this like awful ball of problems.
7:19
So she was my, she was, that's how I learned about Dobermans.
7:23
It was a crash. Course it reminds me of my first
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Rottweiler link. Similar story from a backyard
7:28
breeder. Genetic and temperamental
7:30
nightmare. Didn't have a lot of physical
7:33
issues, but did pass away at six from cancer.
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And I feel like it's the story of all dog trainers, right?
7:40
You had this hard dog and it forced you down this path.
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But at the same time, there's so much gratitude to that dog
7:49
because it sent us down this path that we may never have seen
7:53
in our lives. And that's something that we
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can't repay them for. Yeah, absolutely.
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I'm just absolutely grateful to her for everything I learned.
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And like you said, she put me on a totally different path.
8:09
And then? Ronan came into our lives.
8:11
While she was Ronan. A lot of people know Ronan, but
8:15
he was the polar opposite. He was perfect in every way
8:19
shape for him. He was, you know, fun, athletic,
8:22
smart, loyal. He was great with other dogs,
8:25
great with people. He was even great with her even
8:27
though she didn't really normally like other dogs.
8:29
So he was he was the flip side of the coin and was just
8:32
perfect. Did Roe come through DHDR or how
8:36
did he come to you? No, he.
8:39
That's a long story. OK, OK, we could do an yet
8:43
another podcast. I had met his owner at a dog
8:47
park and long story from there, but he did not come through.
8:53
Christy you would have loved Roe.
8:56
He really he he I mean, honestly, he was very similar to
9:01
Thiago stable in for it, loved his people.
9:05
Just a really, really stellar dog.
9:08
And no worry on meeting your dog's friends at a dog park at
9:13
Lucy. Like one of my best friends, if
9:15
we're still in touch, she moved to Washington like 7 years ago
9:19
and we're still in touch because our dogs were friends at the dog
9:21
park. Yeah, I I don't go to the dog
9:24
park with Lucy anymore, but hey, it served its purpose back in
9:28
the day. Don't endorse it.
9:29
It definitely messed up Millie, but there ended up being some
9:33
good out of it. Live and learn for sure.
9:37
That's awesome. You kind of fell forward into
9:40
the rescue world and immersed yourself.
9:43
So then at what point did you get to DHDR or how did that kind
9:48
of happen? Yeah.
9:50
So I all of that volunteering was with DHDRI, found them in
9:54
that process. They were founded in 2009.
9:58
I don't even know what year it is anymore so.
10:00
Doesn't matter. They were founded by Sydney
10:03
Oliver and Catherine Meshner, and I met them like three years
10:08
after they found it in 2011. And eventually, you know, lots
10:12
of stuff in between there, but eventually took over the rescue.
10:15
Sadly, Sydney passed away of COVID a couple years ago.
10:19
Yeah, but Catherine is is still on the board and she actually
10:23
writes handwritten think, you know, it's every single.
10:26
Builder. That donate, no matter who you
10:28
donate 5 dollars $5000. So she's, she's amazing and
10:31
she's still here on the board. That's amazing.
10:35
So at what point did you become president?
10:37
Do you know what year that was? That's a good question.
10:40
A long time. Yeah, I think I was probably a
10:43
couple years after I met them. So I was in 2013 or something
10:48
around there. It's it's been about 10 years, a
10:49
little bit under 10 years. OK.
10:52
Tell us some details about DHDR. Are you foster based?
10:56
Do you have a facility? How do you choose dogs, all that
10:59
kind of stuff. Just kind of give us a little
11:00
cause a lot of listeners might not be aware of the rescue, so
11:04
we want to make sure that they understand what kind of setup
11:07
you have. Yeah.
11:08
So we're 100% foster based, 100% volunteer base, so zero staff.
11:14
We have about 150 volunteers and about 20 active foster homes.
11:19
As you guys know, that's a cycle.
11:21
People foster fail or they, you know, burn out and then new
11:24
people replace them. But it's just at any given time
11:27
we have about 20 foster homes. Our team, our volunteers,
11:32
they're just incredible. I just, I, I think we're the
11:35
luckiest group. We have really amazing pastors
11:37
and volunteers and we're able to take in around 100 Dobermans per
11:42
year. We don't really use boarding
11:44
unless it's a pinch. We're in a pinch.
11:47
Dobermans don't do that well in boarding.
11:49
We're primarily fosters. OK.
11:53
And how do you decide which dogs that you're able to take?
11:57
Do you have behavior guidelines? Do you have age guidelines?
12:01
Any sort of guidelines? Yeah.
12:03
I mean, we love seniors, so we have no age guidelines.
12:06
But in the early days, most of our rescues came from shelters.
12:11
So we spent a lot of time down at county.
12:14
Over time, as the awareness of the rescue increased, we started
12:18
seeing more owner surrender requests.
12:20
There's also been here in Arizona, there's been an ebb and
12:23
flow over the past 10 years of the policies and the procedures
12:27
of particularly the Maricopa shelter system.
12:30
And so without getting into that, things have flowed on how
12:34
how often we've pulled or haven't pulled from shelters.
12:36
So we actually do a lot with owner surrenders right now.
12:39
And we kind of see that taking as many dogs as we can before
12:42
they go into the shelter, before go into county.
12:45
So we basically we have people fill out a surrender form and
12:49
then we post it to an internal volunteer system that we have.
12:52
And if one of our fosters is interested, we always want to be
12:55
sure they're picking, you know, we're not telling them who to
12:58
foster. We do a behavior intake
13:01
evaluation and we usually intake at the exact same time.
13:04
And our evaluators are either professional trainers, so
13:08
certified or they're volunteers who've gone through Sam
13:12
Freeman's course about 8 weeks and then they shadow someone for
13:17
a year or two. So we have pretty experienced
13:19
people doing these evaluations. Assessments are, you know,
13:24
assessments are just assessments.
13:26
They are what they are. We don't, you know, we recognize
13:29
that, but also very helpful for us to ensure that we are not
13:34
taking in dogs that are dangerous.
13:36
And we can talk a little bit more about what that looks like,
13:38
what our behavior guidelines are.
13:40
But I would say in terms of intake, we have a soft spot for
13:43
seniors. We love taking medical cases.
13:45
We have really good supporters who help us fundraise.
13:48
I also love to take in litters not because are fun, because
13:52
they're actually really horribly hard.
13:56
Puppies are a lot of work, but it's my business.
14:02
I think we have so much ability to impact how they're raised
14:07
only like while they're in our care, but the the requirements
14:10
we have of our doctors and that's, you know, as you guys
14:13
know, so critical in those critical weeks.
14:16
And so I get really excited when we get litters because of the
14:19
impact we can have on their lives.
14:21
Yeah. And I believe that I've seen
14:25
that you do have an adopter wait list at this point.
14:28
Maybe that's for puppies. A little bit of both.
14:31
So you can only have a puppy waiting list.
14:34
In terms of our adoption process, we process about 500
14:37
applications every year. Our team does.
14:40
We only bring in about 100 dogs per year.
14:44
Certain people want certain things right, and we don't shame
14:46
people for that. If you if, if something's right
14:49
for your lifestyle, we want to know about it because we want to
14:52
match you with the right dot. We don't believe that you should
14:54
just suck it up and take a rescue because that's what
14:57
rescue is. You know, if you are really not
15:00
confident in your ability to handle separation anxiety or you
15:04
work in an office every day, then we don't want to give you
15:07
dog with separation anxiety. So the people who end up waiting
15:11
are the people who are looking for something specific and
15:14
something in demand, like the crop docked female who gets
15:18
along with dogs, cats, kids. You will wait a long time for
15:24
one of those. And then there's people who
15:26
adopt the day after they get through the process because
15:29
they're looking for a dog that maybe is less desirable.
15:34
Yeah. Or maybe they just don't have
15:36
have a strict requirements, maybe they don't have children,
15:38
they don't have other pets, whatever.
15:40
So it makes it easier to place a dog with them because they just
15:43
don't have specifics. Makes sense?
15:46
When you're looking for like a crusty old man dog, like it's
15:50
easy, I mean. Got a ton of them.
15:55
Yeah, we have a lot of adopters who are like, I want a senior, I
15:59
want a really old senior. I'm like, I don't know, out of
16:02
seniors, everyone wants a senior.
16:04
I love that though. I also know that you guys do a
16:11
lot of cross posting. So yes, you're not pulling from
16:14
the shelters, but you are trying to help people be more aware.
16:17
Hey, maybe you're on the waiting list for us, but there are dogs
16:21
available in shelters that we've seen and maybe you should go
16:23
check them out too. So it's a little cross marketing
16:26
I would say. Yeah, And we have this page on
16:29
our site. We are not here to force
16:32
everyone through us because we recognize that our process may
16:36
not be the fit for some people. And so we're really trying to
16:40
say here are all the ethical, the good places to get
16:43
Dobermans. And so we have this page that
16:45
says, like, here are local Doberman rescues in in
16:47
neighboring states. Here are all the shelters that
16:50
have Dobermans every day. Here's how to pick a good
16:52
breeder. Once you apply with us, you're
16:55
in our network and we're here to help you find a dog, whether
16:58
it's through us or whether it's some other way.
17:01
So a lot of people who apply with us, they end up finding a
17:04
match because we cross posted before they even end up finding
17:07
a dog with us. And we're very happy that that
17:09
happens. I love that I.
17:12
Do. Too see Christy, I told you
17:14
Christy was our people. I know.
17:17
Yeah. I love everything that you're
17:18
saying. Like everything.
17:21
Christy's just up there, yes. Next.
17:25
UP Christy signs up to foster for DHDR. That was my whole
17:29
intent in doing this. There's a bomb, Foster, I'm
17:34
telling you. They're taking a break for
17:37
Lucy's health issues. But let me tell you, I was
17:40
keyboarding. I can do a foster.
17:43
When I saw all those talks coming through, I was like, no,
17:45
Christy, take a break. You committed to taking a break.
17:49
Christie, do you know that Christie's Lucy was the first
17:53
adult dog that Thiago met as a puppy?
17:56
Oh, really? Yes, this must.
17:59
Be great. Six years ago yesterday.
18:02
Yes, and I just kept her head in his mouth the whole the whole
18:06
time. And they've been best friends
18:10
ever since. Love story?
18:13
Yeah. We go back to you had mentioned
18:18
about your guidelines for behavior, Yeah.
18:21
Do you mind kind of going over what some of those guidelines
18:24
are for your intake with? Yeah, absolutely.
18:26
This is really important to us. So specific to the dogs
18:29
themselves, we don't take in any dogs that are dangerous to
18:34
people or other dogs, period. OK.
18:37
Like we talked about, assessments are just
18:39
assessments. They typically help us suss that
18:42
out, but we know that sometimes it also means that we might take
18:46
a dog in and find out later that the dog is not safe for people
18:51
or other dogs. And there's a difference between
18:53
dog reactivity and like true dog aggression.
18:57
I'll kill, you know, kill another thing.
18:59
So if we had a dog like that in our rescue, we would not adopt
19:03
that dog out. I think we owe it to our fosters
19:07
and our adopters to keep them safe.
19:10
And we also owe it to the Doberman breed to not perpetuate
19:14
this incorrect myth by putting dangerous dogs out there.
19:18
So we take that really seriously and we have our whole system set
19:22
up to be able to, to make sure that we hit the mark on that as
19:25
much as we can around that. We do a ton of training for our
19:30
volunteers. We do regular classes.
19:33
We use trainule, which is an online training tool where we
19:36
have different modules and online classes.
19:38
You know, like all the things are important to me, basic
19:41
handling, body language, behavior, the humane hierarchy,
19:45
dispelling dominance myths, because we also don't want to
19:48
put dogs in a position where the worst side of them comes out
19:52
right. So it's important for us to do
19:53
our part too. But we just, we do a ton of
19:56
education and we're super dedicated to keeping people
20:00
safe. That's amazing.
20:02
So you've really set up your volunteers and your fosters too,
20:05
and give them a ton of tools. Yeah, as much as we can, yeah.
20:09
That's awesome. I'm just like sitting here in
20:12
awe, like, yes, all of that. Yes, yeah, I I literally wanted
20:17
to go preach. Like, because you're amazing.
20:22
Yeah, we want to share it. So if there's other rescues who
20:25
want to do stuff different or do more of that, none of our
20:28
materials are, you know, proprietary.
20:31
Anything we write, anything we put together, we're happy to
20:34
share. So come talk to us, happy to
20:39
happy to help. That's a pretty incredible
20:41
offering because I know the kind of work that it takes to have a
20:45
program dedicated like that for your volunteers and your
20:48
fosters. So that's pretty amazing.
20:51
But I also get that it's like the educational aspect too.
20:56
Yeah. Yeah, and I, I feel you so
20:59
deeply on making sure that you're not perpetuating myths.
21:04
I mean, you're sitting here talking to a Pitbull owner in
21:07
Christie, a former Pitbull owner in me, and then a Rottweiler
21:10
owner. I just really resonate with that
21:13
because we want people to know the breed the way we know the
21:18
breeds, and that is not these, you know, dogs with hair, hair
21:24
triggers that are aggressive and all of this stuff.
21:28
Dogs that are true to their actual nature and what they're
21:30
meant to be. So I really love that as well.
21:34
Yeah, it's so true. I'm giving.
21:39
Are you good, Christy? Yes, so you can ask your No,
21:42
that was awesome. I love that.
21:44
It was amazing. OK, so how has DHDR changed
21:49
since you've kind of been involved?
21:50
The world has. Changed.
21:51
So yeah, I think from a basic boring perspective, like we've
21:55
modernized a lot. So all our forms are online.
21:59
We've evolved our policies quite a bit.
22:01
We've put a lot more of like a professional wrapper around our
22:05
our operations. We use Salesforce nonprofit,
22:08
which is incredible. And I won't get into all of
22:10
that. It's very, very boring probably,
22:12
but super cool and making volunteers hope given us all
22:15
this free, this free work. And I think we've also created
22:18
deeper partnerships within the community and obviously expanded
22:22
our education. I'm just like barfing out all
22:25
the things. No barf away.
22:28
From a medical perspective, we take on a lot of medical cases
22:32
now and we have a medical director who's just incredible.
22:35
We can do so much more with her expertise and her connections,
22:40
especially in this environment of a vet shortage that we're
22:43
still in. So I know that other rescues who
22:46
don't have someone like that have a bigger challenge, you
22:49
know, just even getting dog spayed or neutered.
22:51
So that has been an incredible evolution.
22:54
But I think probably the biggest change that I've seen is that
23:01
we're not, I would say you can just call it 5050 for ease of
23:06
conversation, 50% about actually physically rescuing and adopting
23:11
out dogs. And like 50% of our energy and
23:13
effort goes into creating educational materials and
23:19
solving what I like to call the core, core issue.
23:22
So why are Dobermans ending up in shelters?
23:27
First and foremost, backyard breeders.
23:30
If. Every Doberman came from an
23:32
ethical breeder by definition, because ethical breeders take
23:35
back their dogs. There would literally be no
23:38
Doberman rescue needed. So there's a lot of education
23:41
around that. And then the second thing is
23:43
behavior, a lot of that comes down to the backyard breeder as
23:47
well, whether it be genetics or puppy raising in those or even
23:53
gestation in a few weeks, right. So we.
23:57
Can get really nerdy about that, yes.
24:00
So like a ton of education in the community and outreach
24:03
around backyard breeders. And I think the other piece of
24:07
that is it's funny, it links it back to how we how we kicked off
24:11
today, which is dog sports. And it seems like a weird
24:16
connection, But for anyone who owns a working breed, they know
24:20
that they need to work and behavior problems can pop up if
24:23
they're not working. And dog sports, again, another
24:28
podcast, can be very intimidating, expensive, scary.
24:34
And then they don't have to be because it's really just a bunch
24:37
of nice people for the most part, getting together.
24:40
So we've created this Dober Sorts program where we try to
24:44
work with trainers. We'll plug here.
24:46
If you're a trainer listening and you want to be a part of it,
24:48
let me know. To do like intro classes that
24:51
are either free or really cheap. It's just Dobermans only.
24:55
And so it's a lot less pressure. And then we hope that people
24:58
will get hooked on in sports and surrender their dogs because
25:02
their dogs are happy and. And healthy and fulfilled.
25:06
Yeah, yeah. And what, what sports are you
25:08
guys doing? Is it just kind of a gamut of
25:12
everything or? It's anything that we feel like
25:15
is is safe I. Know scent work for sure.
25:18
Scent work is like my jam barn hunt.
25:21
It's it's so hard because it's tough.
25:24
Anyone who does barn hunt? But I love it.
25:26
Just for the listeners, just if I can interject, in the state of
25:30
Arizona, we only have one barn hunt club at this point.
25:33
So it's really difficult sport. Yeah.
25:36
Yeah, so like Heather drives? I drive an hour and 20 minutes
25:39
one way. Yeah, one way.
25:41
Yeah. Yeah, to go to the one place and
25:44
if. You're, if you're practicing,
25:45
then you're going on Wednesday night for that drive and then
25:48
you're going to trial that weekend and either you're
25:52
staying in Coolidge, which has basically one nice, sorry
25:57
Coolidge, one nice hotel and, and, or you're driving back and
26:04
forth. But it's, it's tough.
26:06
It's really tough. And it's a really enjoyable
26:08
sport and I think it's a great sport for Dobermans.
26:11
Yeah, it is. So anyone out there, you have
26:14
rats, you have hay? Call us.
26:16
We'll help you set up a Barn hunt club.
26:18
We'll teach you all about Barn Hunt and all the insurance and
26:21
outs of it. I love it.
26:22
I feel like maybe I can just get some hay.
26:25
I'm willing to keep some rats. I think rats are cool.
26:28
If you guys want to come to my backyard, I know.
26:30
I have two people now. Christy and my friend Kelly are
26:34
willing to keep rats, so now we just have to put it together.
26:39
Oh, my. Yeah.
26:40
So scent work and barn hunt for sure.
26:43
Do you guys do duck diving? Of course, yes.
26:47
Lure coursing. Fast cat.
26:50
Fast Cat. We have.
26:52
We've done a little lure coursing, we've had some broken
26:55
toes. Yeah, that's why I was like,
26:58
probably fast cat more than lure coursing.
27:00
Yeah, yeah. Haven't done lure coursing in a
27:02
couple years because it's so fun.
27:04
Ronan loved lure coursing. But I'm like, yeah.
27:09
It's tough on the cruciates, too.
27:10
Yeah, yeah, Trying to think if I miss tricks.
27:14
Yeah, yeah, I put in the sport category I think and I love
27:17
tricks because you can do it at home.
27:19
And yes, AKC must still have the the online.
27:22
They're keeping it. They're keeping it, yeah.
27:25
Those are so fun and just so good.
27:27
So those are the ones I can think of right now.
27:30
OK, my boosie is trick certified and I will say when she was
27:34
younger, our life was very structured to keep peace inside
27:39
our my home between her and I. So like everything was
27:44
structured, but then we would have these like really fun times
27:47
of just doing tricks and and learning tricks and, and that
27:51
was our fun time. And that is honestly trick
27:53
training is how we bonded. And then she met me.
27:57
And then I was like, you already know all these tricks.
27:59
Put a title on your pit bull, please.
28:01
And then she's like, what? What is this?
28:04
Yeah, it was a good old illusion.
28:07
Yeah. OK, so I love the Dober sports.
28:10
I think that's awesome because obviously I own a working breed.
28:13
And yes, if your dogs want to work, I mean, look, there's
28:16
outliers. We have Rottweilers who are
28:18
sacks, but majority of them want to do something.
28:21
And so I love that that's the way you support and educate your
28:26
community. What would you say is the
28:30
biggest challenges that you see? I would say in DHDR Rescue
28:36
Dobermans in general, however, you kind of want to put that
28:39
together. I think with rescue there's the
28:43
basic issues, right? And we can write them off of the
28:45
office basic, but they are huge day-to-day problems like lack of
28:49
fosters, too many dogs in need, the vet shortage, interpersonal
28:53
challenges. You know, those are, I don't
28:55
mean to write them off because they all are significant issues.
28:59
I would say that what resonates most with me lately, the biggest
29:03
challenge in rescue is all the behavior.
29:05
Dogs that are not safe enough to adopt out.
29:08
Like there they all go. I can put on my hat and say I
29:11
have this firm policy and I can hold true to it, but at the end
29:16
of the day, it just like eats away at me that every day I'm
29:20
rejecting 5 dogs, you know, 5, Where are they going?
29:23
People are trapped, people are rescues are tapped.
29:27
So then people are trapped and it's heartbreaking.
29:30
And I just get super down sometimes when we can't help.
29:35
But I usually rally myself back up by like being like, OK,
29:37
what's the core issue? So, you know, schedule another
29:40
class or put another piece out to stop people from going to
29:43
backyard breeders. And I think that's why I get
29:45
just so, oh, I just get like this fire when I see people
29:49
going to backyard breeders or non ethical breeders because I'm
29:52
just like, you're just degrading all the work we're doing.
29:55
You're this dog is going to end up like this in two years and
29:58
you're going to come running for help and there's not going to be
30:01
anything I can do because it's going to be too late.
30:03
So it stresses me out if you can't tell.
30:06
It's like a never ending cycle. It is, but it sounds like you're
30:11
seeing more of that now than you have in the past.
30:14
Is that accurate? Yeah, I would say, and sometimes
30:17
I, I question you guys may know Lisa who helps run the rescue
30:21
with me. We question, do we just know
30:23
more now? And so we notice it more.
30:28
You are so tricky question. We literally this is where we
30:32
end up every time. That's really complex.
30:37
It's. True, it has felt like we reject
30:41
a lot more dogs. There's AI mean COVID made
30:44
things worse. Yes, for sure.
30:46
Socialization and the demand for puppies.
30:49
We started to feel like we were making some progress against
30:51
backyard breeders in Arizona and then COVID just wiped it all off
30:54
the map and it's out of control again.
30:57
So it is worse. If you could say anything to
31:01
backyard breeders, what would it be to that?
31:04
And it's nothing. Because.
31:06
I've met so many of them and 90% of the time it's it's a lack of
31:12
education or ignorance, right? Mean people.
31:15
But based on their life experiences and why they're
31:17
doing this, I'm never going to get them to change.
31:20
Yep. And so I have to focus on the
31:22
demand and not the Breeders because we're not changing their
31:26
mind. It's interesting you say that
31:28
because I just finished an online course on how to find an
31:32
ethical breeder that I'm going to be putting out.
31:35
And one of the things I say in there is I don't think anyone is
31:40
breeding puppies with malicious intent.
31:44
I don't think the average, well, I don't think the average person
31:49
there's. Some.
31:49
There we go. But I don't think on average
31:52
someone is like, let me produce like biggest mess of a puppy
31:56
when it comes to behavior and health that I can think of.
31:59
And how can I make that happen? I do think it is a huge lack of
32:03
education. And then it's cultural.
32:05
Hey, their parents bred Dobermans.
32:07
So now they're doing it. And there's the financial
32:10
standpoint, there's the resource standpoint.
32:12
I mean, it's a really, really hate to say it, but complex
32:15
issue that is so big. Yeah, in 10 years, I've met one
32:22
backyard breeder, and it was the worst one I've ever met who I
32:26
felt like was truly evil, like scheming to take dogs off
32:31
Craigslist and just this awful evil person.
32:33
The rest of the people, they just, they didn't know better.
32:37
And yeah, they just didn't know better and they weren't going to
32:40
hear it for whatever reason. Yeah.
32:43
It's really like that you, you address it as, OK, well, they're
32:47
doing their thing, but what we can do, what we have the power
32:50
over is the demand side and educating the purchasers and
32:55
making sure that adoption's an option.
32:58
Ethical breeding is an option that people know.
33:00
About really? Those are the options, right?
33:06
And we're not sitting here in judgement of anyone because
33:10
Christie, you and I both bought dogs, our first dogs of our
33:13
beloved breeds from backyard breeders.
33:15
We we've evolved and educated ourselves and come to the point
33:19
we are now. So I do understand that
33:22
everybody starts somewhere, absolutely.
33:24
But I also understand having this fire to educate and help
33:30
people understand why it's important.
33:34
And I, I want to take your class that you put together because I
33:38
think there's, there's simple layers and then there's really
33:41
complex layers like how expensive it is to raise a raise
33:45
and breed an ethically bred dog and how that prices certain
33:50
people out of that. And the politics that exist
33:53
inside the, the breeder world. You know, once you, it convinced
33:56
people to buy from an ethical breeder, there's a whole new
34:00
layer of hurdles that they have to get over.
34:02
Absolutely. There's there's so much more to
34:05
unpack there. But I do know that we've just
34:07
got to get get people to stop. And I think if buyers were more
34:11
educated than ethical breeders, they would know where to start
34:15
with ethical breeders, too, and the conversation would get more
34:20
eased on both sides so that it would be easier for educated
34:24
buyers and educated breeders to meet in the middle, which is
34:27
where I'm coming from, Yeah. Yeah, and Christy, I know most
34:32
rescues are not in favor of of ethical breeding.
34:36
Or any? Breeding or any breeding?
34:38
Yeah, you would think ethical breeding, but they're not in
34:41
favor of breeders in general. That's not something you hear a
34:45
lot in rescue. What make your rescue decide
34:48
that you were going to recommend ethical breeders?
34:52
I'll start by saying that I love this macro concept of people
34:58
moving towards adoption, and that came from the Adopt Don't
35:03
shop movement. So I'm not knocking it
35:05
completely because so many more dogs would be dying today if we
35:09
didn't have this cultural shift towards promoting adoption and
35:13
adoption being cool and people embracing rescue, right?
35:16
So I love that. But when you really think about
35:19
it, I love the Doberman breed. I mean, I love all dogs, but I
35:22
love the Doberman breed. There is one way for the breed I
35:26
love to survive and that's ethical breeders.
35:29
And if like I said before, if only ethical breeders produced
35:33
Dobermans, there wouldn't be rescued because they would take
35:35
other ducks. So I've seen what a well bred
35:38
Doberman can be, what a well raised Doberman can be, and I've
35:42
seen the pain that people and Dobermans are in when they're
35:47
not well bred or raised well. And so that makes the answer
35:52
super clear for me as a rescue. I run a Doberman rescue and the
35:56
answer to all of my problems is ethical breeders, which just
36:01
really think about it, it's true.
36:04
It's like you can't even argue it's true.
36:07
So. I just honestly why?
36:10
I told Heather, I think it's so important to start doing these
36:15
podcasts on rescue and breeding because I just kept hearing back
36:20
from the rescue community if there can't be ethical breeders
36:24
because breeders aren't ethical. And I was like, if we could just
36:27
have everybody understand what ethical breeding is, I think we
36:31
could solve this problem because like you said, we wouldn't need
36:35
rescue then because ethical breeders would be taking back
36:38
their dogs and that would put such a huge dent in in our
36:43
shelter populations. And the other piece about
36:45
ethical breeders, which we've already talked about, is that
36:48
they're educating the people who they're giving their dogs to.
36:52
Not only are you getting a good dog to start with, you raise it
36:57
correctly hopefully and it has that much better chance to be a
37:02
dog that you don't need to rehome or dump or.
37:05
Deck in the deck in your favor. Yeah.
37:08
Yeah, sure. And prior to Christine meeting
37:11
me, she had no idea that there was such a thing as ethical
37:15
breeders. #Adopt, don't shop.
37:19
Poor woman got a hell of an education when she met me at the
37:23
freaking shelter, let me tell you.
37:26
But honestly, you know what I told her?
37:28
I said after many conversations. I was like, you know what?
37:32
When Thiago comes home, I just want you to come and meet him,
37:35
'cause I think you're gonna get it, 'cause she was a behavior
37:38
person, right? And I knew that if she met her
37:42
first well bred puppy that she would instantly just be all in
37:47
and totally understand. Tiago did the work for me.
37:51
Well, yeah. And it was a paradigm shift.
37:52
So I kept having to tell how that I want to be on board, but
37:55
I need to sit with this for a while because it's it's a big
37:59
shift. And I was like, I don't know if
38:01
I'm OK with it. And then I'd be like, I'm on
38:03
board. Wait, I don't know if I'm OK
38:05
with this. But you remained open and asked
38:07
questions, which was a huge piece of it.
38:10
The thing that kicked it off was me saying that I had to sign a
38:13
contract when I purchased Thiago.
38:16
That was the catalyst to the whole thing.
38:18
Yeah, and that started our friendship and a lot of
38:22
questions on my end. Well, I've heard what you hear a
38:25
lot online is you're breeding them faster than we can save
38:29
them and all that. So what from you being in that
38:33
position, what was it that made you think, be hesitant to be
38:39
like, am I OK with this? Was it you?
38:42
Did you just feel like there were too many dogs that need to
38:44
be saved and so no one should be breeding any other dogs or?
38:48
Yeah, I think I didn't realize that there were ethical
38:52
breeders. I don't know why that just
38:54
hadn't made a connection in my brain.
38:55
I love the Westminster show, like I watch it, you know, but
38:59
still in my brain there wasn't like an ethical breeder.
39:03
Like, I don't know what happened there.
39:04
There was just like this shortage in my brain about it.
39:08
And then and I was volunteering at the shelter.
39:11
So in in Arizona, it's about 700 dogs at one shelter and about
39:16
350 at the other. And 350 are in a shelter from
39:20
like 1978. It's bad, it's depressing, it's
39:24
hard. And you just see these dogs
39:27
start losing their minds after months and months and we can't
39:30
push them out. And I kept finding really great
39:33
dogs in the shelter, too. I wasn't trying to push off
39:38
behavior issues. I was like, these are amazing
39:41
dogs. These are dogs I would have in
39:43
my home that I would want my friends to own.
39:45
These are good dogs. And yet we're putting them to
39:49
sleep because we're not getting 350 people coming in to adopt
39:54
dogs. And so I think that was my I had
39:57
actually told Heather, how can you come from the shelter and
40:01
then talk about a breeder like that is tough to me.
40:06
And also I didn't have. And I still don't have a
40:09
specific breed that I love. And my dog is a pit bull.
40:13
I love her. It's not like I don't.
40:16
I'm not committed to one breed. So for me it was always like,
40:19
well, there's so many good dogs, why do you got to commit to one
40:21
breed, which I have definitely changed my mind on now too.
40:26
I do think people should be able to choose the breed they love.
40:30
I also think a part of it is when you don't have a specific
40:34
breed that you're really attached to, like you and I are
40:37
with the Doberman and the Rottweiler, there isn't that
40:41
breed club and breed support and breed pride and breed.
40:45
There's this whole thing that comes along with that.
40:48
And when you are really attached and love a purebred dog, you see
40:55
a different support and a different level of
40:58
responsibility. That's not quite the right word,
41:01
A different level. Do you know what I'm saying?
41:05
Like, yes, camaraderie. And you know, I would go to the
41:08
shelter. I went to the shelter and found
41:10
a senior Rottweiler there that was from who knows where and
41:13
contacted A breeder that had been breeding Rottweilers for 40
41:17
years and said, are you looking for a senior?
41:19
And she took him. It wasn't her dog.
41:21
But breeders, I, that's where I came from, was breeders stepping
41:25
up right to support their breed in general.
41:27
And I feel like in the Pitbull community you don't have that
41:31
same thing. So like Christy was coming from
41:34
that side as well-being a Pitbull owner.
41:37
Yeah, I think that makes sense. And I think it I've been in that
41:41
spot. You know, I used to volunteer at
41:42
county and I wouldn't even listen to the radio on the way
41:45
home. I was just driving Silence.
41:47
Oh man, this is heavy. So I think it's like the short
41:50
term picture is also really, you know, when you focus on that, it
41:55
makes it harder to digest. And then when you are able to
41:58
think about the bigger picture, then you start to kind of change
42:02
your mind a little. Yeah, yeah.
42:04
I used to say, but the short term is very dire.
42:07
That's true. Especially here.
42:10
Yeah. Yeah.
42:11
I used to say that I lived in two different worlds, my
42:15
purebred world and then my rescue world, and then I
42:19
constantly felt like I was split in half.
42:21
I've gotten over that because I just am who I am at this point.
42:25
But I felt that way for many, many years where I was split in
42:29
half. And it's tough.
42:31
Yeah, I think we're making a little progress.
42:34
I agree less. I get less pushback these days
42:37
than I used to. Well, I love hearing that
42:40
because, and it's like Christy said, like This is why we want
42:44
to be talking about this. We don't want to shy away
42:46
because I do agree with you. If people are doing things
42:50
ethically, where are the dogs coming from?
42:52
They're not. They're either getting rehomed
42:55
with from the breeder or if there is a situation, 'cause I
42:58
don't want to say that if you go to an ethical breeder,
43:01
everything's going to be roses because shit happens and
43:06
whipping, breathing Organism. That and and genetic.
43:10
I always say genetics are a tricky mistress.
43:12
Things happen. Tiago is from an ethical
43:15
breeder. He has a bad elbow with elbow
43:17
dysplasia. Stuff does absolutely happen,
43:20
but it's like, like we say, you are stacking the deck in your
43:23
favor and then you're also going to someone who's doing things
43:28
ethically and you can feel good about your purchase because your
43:31
money is not going to fuel this stress on your community.
43:37
And Christy, what do you think? Because Dobermans are your breed
43:42
of choice, what are some of the challenges you face with that
43:45
breed specifically? The clear answer that you can
43:49
probably get first out of anyone's mouth is DCM dilated
43:52
cardiomyopathy. You know, it's affecting over
43:55
half of the breed, I want to say.
43:58
For people who don't know what that is, what is that?
44:00
It's essentially a disease of the heart.
44:03
You can catch it early through the Probie MP blood panel
44:07
through regular echoes. So we have this piece, if anyone
44:11
listening with this great piece, it's like a 5 minute read, but
44:14
it essentially requires that if you have a Doberman, you really
44:18
need to be doing this testing, which is it's kind of expensive,
44:21
you know, but that's, that's the biggest problem facing our
44:25
breed. And it's like you said, even
44:26
with really good breeders, it's still a significant issue going
44:31
back to Heather's stack the deck.
44:33
It's but it's even more of an issue with backyard breeders
44:37
because they're not testing, they're not checking.
44:39
They're just continuing to make it worse.
44:41
They're breeding dogs with heart issues.
44:43
And at least ethical breeders are doing everything they can to
44:48
breed dogs that don't have the indicators that that this might
44:52
happen. It's still happening.
44:53
It's it's a it's a big problem for the breed that spans breast
44:56
cue and breeding. So it's something that I think
45:01
that everyone is super focused on, and I'm glad they are
45:04
because it's just heartbreaking to own a Doberman and lose them
45:08
early. And many people do.
45:10
Yeah, but. And.
45:11
Just really quick testing for DDCM if you have breeding
45:15
partners. Is it a cheek swab?
45:17
Is it an echo? What is it?
45:20
Breeders, typically responsible breeders typically do a variety
45:24
of things. So they're doing DNA testing,
45:27
although, you know, you could go into how, how that all works and
45:30
doesn't guarantee anything, but they're definitely doing that.
45:33
All of their dogs are echoed and holtered.
45:37
And I can't, I don't want to speak for breeders about the pro
45:39
B and Pi love the concept of a pro B&P blood panel from birth
45:43
to, you know, forever. It's just a good subtle
45:46
indicator of and it's super easy.
45:49
You just add it on to any old blood blood panel, but breeders
45:52
are essentially testing all of their dogs for these things
45:55
regularly. So they'll say, you know, like
45:56
clear Holter, clear echo, and then they'll talk about what the
46:00
genetics look like and breed dogs that don't have any issues.
46:04
Yeah. So DCM is this this clear issue?
46:08
And I would agree it's the number one issue challenging our
46:11
breed. Something that pops up for me as
46:14
well that's obviously not as dire, but is important to me and
46:20
I don't want to dive into the whole training debate, but I
46:24
think the Doberman world needs to be more up to date on the
46:28
latest science and approaches to behavior and training.
46:32
Word. I think I see the overuse of
46:35
aversives and I think it just comes from a history of those
46:41
tools or methods being used by a lot of trainers on Dobermans and
46:46
feeling like Dobermans are tough, Dobermans can handle it,
46:49
Dobermans are smart and they're not just like easy.
46:53
So So sometimes I think those training methods have been been
46:57
really popular in the past and it's a delicate thing to broach
47:01
because I don't want to alienate people from a recipe perspective
47:04
altogether. But I also think that if I had
47:10
one wish for the breed, it would be that breed enthusiasts really
47:14
come to understand the humane hierarchy and move towards that
47:18
direction in the future. There's so many things there
47:21
right in line with Dobermans and Rottweilers.
47:24
It's I completely agree with you.
47:26
And I think it also goes back to people like really enjoying
47:30
their dog and their relationship with their dog.
47:32
And we want that for everybody. And if we're updating our
47:37
training methods to current knowledge, then I think that
47:42
increases that. Yeah, totally does.
47:45
It's just, it's not as quick always, but it provides real
47:49
results and a wonderful relationship with your dog so.
47:55
So if someone decides that they want to start a rescue, do you
47:59
have advice that you would give to them?
48:02
I think the organized side of me wants to like, give you a whole
48:05
business plan and like, OK, it's neat, let's put it all together
48:09
because there's so many pieces, there's so much to do, But I
48:13
won't. I won't.
48:14
Do that to you all. I guess.
48:16
But seriously, reach out to me. I love, you know, a lot of work
48:21
has gone into a lot of our documents, our processes, our
48:24
approaches. So I just want to share it.
48:25
I would love to share it. So reach out to me, reach out to
48:28
other people who you respect who might be running rescues.
48:31
I think you have to define your mission and what you want your
48:34
rescue to be and what kind of tenants values you're going to
48:38
operate under. I think you can't just be a dog
48:42
lover. You have to love people too.
48:45
And you have to with people. And you know, I'm an introvert.
48:48
I don't want to necessarily talk to people all day, but at the
48:52
end of the day, that's 50% of who we're helping.
48:54
And so if you just love to go into the shelter and you just
48:57
want to save all the dogs and it's not going to be great, you
49:01
need to want to do both. And you also have to be prepared
49:06
to do all the hard stuff, all the business stuff.
49:09
And I think you need to be a constant learner.
49:13
A lot of the stuff we're talking about today I, well, all of it.
49:17
I didn't know the day about Millie, right?
49:19
The day I got involved in rescue, didn't know any of this.
49:22
It's our responsibility as rescuers.
49:25
If we are creating a 501-C3 and the public is putting trust in
49:29
US, dogs are putting their trust in US.
49:30
Is our responsibility to learn about dog behavior, learn about
49:35
enrichment, learn about the best ways to do things so that we do
49:39
it right and we don't actually do it more damage than I did?
49:42
Yes. That's amazing.
49:44
Yeah, that is a that is solid advice.
49:48
It is solid advice. It absolutely is.
49:51
I'm embarrassed. Because I've been wrong 1000
49:53
times. Yeah, you're gonna get it wrong
49:57
sometimes. I mean seriously, how do you
49:59
learn? Yeah.
50:00
Yeah, we're human, so it happens.
50:02
We're going to get it wrong. But I love that you balance the
50:06
love of dogs, but also the love of human beings too, and doing
50:11
right by both at the same time. Yeah, because without people
50:16
there are no owners for dogs. So if we have people who are
50:22
listening that are not familiar with DHCR, what are?
50:26
I mean, I know fostering, so I'm going to tell everybody she's
50:30
going to say fostering and then go back and listen to our
50:33
fostering episode because it will give you all the
50:36
information that you need. But if somebody's listening and
50:40
they're like, I really want to help, I really think DHCR sounds
50:43
amazing. What is a short list of things
50:46
that people can do to help you guys out?
50:51
Oh, I can't say. Faster.
50:53
No. You can say it because it's a
50:55
big one. But seriously, we have, since we
50:58
do a lot of stuff virtually, like our phone interviews, our
51:01
home visits, a lot of our admin stuff virtual.
51:04
So we have volunteers all over the world.
51:06
Wow. That's awesome.
51:07
Florida, California. So if you are not in Arizona and
51:11
you want to volunteer with a rescue like us, there's
51:14
absolutely areas you can help. So just go to our website,
51:17
itseasydoperescue.org. You can find us on all the
51:20
socials, most of our hands handles are DHDR of AZ and you
51:23
know, if you only have a little bit of a lift you can do right
51:26
now. Just follow us, follow us there,
51:28
engage with our content. They said so much as what we do
51:31
as education. And so having more followers and
51:34
likes and all the people sharing our stuff helps us achieve a
51:38
part of our mission as well. We take money too.
51:41
Oh yeah. That.
51:44
You know, it's helpful. It is.
51:46
It's funny because in our episode where we talk about
51:49
Christy and I's definition of ethical rescue, we talk about
51:53
all the things you can do to support.
51:55
And one of those things is also making sure that the group that
51:59
you are supporting is ethical and is following guidelines of
52:03
rescue ethics and is on the up and up so that the money and the
52:08
support and the funnels are all going to the right people.
52:11
And I think that's really important for people to
52:13
understand. Yeah, it really is.
52:17
And it's hard. It's hard to know.
52:19
There's so much noise out there every day just in life.
52:22
It's hard to know, but do your best.
52:26
I love that. Where can people find out about
52:30
DHDR? Like I said, social Instagram,
52:33
TikTok, Facebook, whatever your jam is and our website.
52:37
We have a pretty good website, lots of info on there, a ZDOBE
52:42
rescue.org or you can e-mail me at contact@azdoberescue.org.
52:49
I also answer a lot of our social DMS, so reach out in any
52:54
way that you like. And we'll link all that
52:56
information in the show notes so that people know how to find
52:58
you. I just really appreciate you
53:01
being willing to come on and talk to us not just about
53:05
rescue, but ethical breeding too, and how it's all linked
53:07
together and about the challenges that are happening in
53:11
dogs and Dobermans right now. Because I think it's something
53:14
that we should all be talking about.
53:16
Thank you and I, I really appreciate your support just in
53:19
doing this. But also always, some days we
53:22
find people who don't align with our beliefs and those are the
53:24
hard days. And then it's so helpful to get
53:27
pumped up by cheerleaders who do support our same beliefs because
53:31
it keeps us going. So Heather, you're definitely
53:33
one of those people. And now I have another one in
53:35
the mix, Christy. So I really, I'm really grateful
53:38
for you guys. No, I appreciate it too because
53:41
I struggle sometimes finding groups that do align because I
53:44
do walk both those sides of the path.
53:46
So I I really love being able to champion for you guys.
53:50
Thank you. I think we're wrapped.
53:54
If you've enjoyed this episode, rate, subscribe and review on
54:00
your favorite podcast platform and check us out on Instagram at
54:05
Sometimes Their Side Eye and engage with us.
54:08
Yes, we would love to hear from you and if Dobermans are your
54:11
breed, talk to us. We'll talk to Christy Cole.
54:14
Well, yes. All right, thanks everybody.
54:18
Thanks for listening. And we will be dropping new
54:20
episodes every other Thursday. Bye bye.