Latest / The Starfish Storytellers / Season 5, Episode 11: The Grain of Truth - Finding the Human Stories Beneath the Surface with Tovit Neizer

Transcript

Season 5, Episode 11: The Grain of Truth - Finding the Human Stories Beneath the Surface with Tovit Neizer · The Starfish Storytellers

0:00
Welcome to the Starfish Storytellers, the podcast
0:03
that makes a difference one story at a time by
0:05
bringing storytelling to life. A few weeks ago,
0:08
I held one of my flagship workshops, which is
0:12
personal branding for HR people and learning
0:16
and development executives. And what I have at
0:19
the midst of that session is round table exercise
0:23
where I ask a very simple but actually very hard
0:27
question. I ask each participant to share their
0:31
success story. Now, anyone I invite you to think,
0:35
what is that one success story that you hold
0:38
in your career? It could be in your personal
0:41
life. It's really interesting to see how the
0:44
eyes start to roll and people start asking a
0:47
lot of questions. Is it a big thing or a small
0:50
thing? And I don't have any answers. You should...
0:53
come up with something. So I'm always eavesdropping
0:57
and walking around the tables and one table in
1:00
particular caught my attention. There was this
1:03
woman and mind you she was not petite and it's
1:07
very relevant to the story. She said on top of
1:11
being an executive in a leading bank she volunteers
1:15
with the UN in Africa with orphanage kids. from
1:21
orphan families, backgrounds, no parents, hard
1:25
life, things that just my jaw started dropping
1:28
more and more and more. And I asked her, do people
1:33
know at work? And some of her colleagues were
1:36
sitting around her with their jaws dropping as
1:38
well, like mine. And she said, no. I asked her,
1:43
do your bosses, one of them, disagree with you
1:49
stepping up, telling your story? Would that overshine
1:52
what you do at work? And she said, no. So I asked
1:55
her, why? Why don't you show up? And I started
1:59
saying, you should take up space. And I said
2:03
that sentence a few times, a few times for a
2:06
big woman that felt like maybe this is not PC,
2:10
maybe I'm stepping too far, too far with my demand
2:18
here. But you should think. Or if you can remember
2:21
that Good Will Hunting movie where Robin Williams
2:25
stresses that sentence to Matt Damon and he says,
2:29
it's not your fault. It's not your fault. And
2:32
he says that, I think, six times and with different
2:35
pronunciation, different emphasis. And in the
2:38
end, it clicks something. He breaks. Matt Damon
2:42
starts crying. They're hugging. And I kept telling
2:44
her, take up space. take up space because you're
2:48
so amazing the things you've done are so big
2:52
bigger than what you do daily and you say that
2:54
your boss and your colleagues don't know it your
2:57
boss doesn't mind why don't you do that people
3:00
find it so hard to tell their story but no one
3:04
will tell the story at all your story the story
3:08
that you want the story that you need to advance
3:11
your career to build up that climbing up the
3:15
ladder, build up your rods and the career journey.
3:18
This really hit home. I mean, it was so hard
3:22
to see someone so successful in so many ways,
3:26
finding it hard to mention a success story. And
3:30
once she does, no one knows about it. No one
3:33
knew it was a secret. Not taking up space, not
3:36
telling your own story is a big, big mistake.
3:41
Huge, I would say. So that session was very impactful
3:45
for me. I realized I Teach soft skills and people
3:49
call it soft, but I really think these are crucial.
3:52
They're not softer hard to do hard to follow
3:55
But you have to have them I mean you can study
3:59
so many things and learn so many things throughout
4:01
your career, but not Telling your story not showing
4:06
people what you've done. You can be the best
4:08
employee and your boss will know it but when
4:10
he's boss is asking to cut back on some employees
4:15
and expenses. He might not remember that story
4:19
because you're a great employee, but what? You're
4:23
a great executive, but what about that next amazing
4:26
opportunity just around the corner, waiting for
4:29
someone who would ask, someone who would take
4:31
up space? So that's what I try and ask my participants
4:36
and my clients, not only in workshops. Hello.
4:47
My name is Liana Henry, and welcome to the Starfish
4:50
Storytellers. I'm the CEO of the Black Dog Group
4:53
and your host. I'm passionate about storytelling
4:56
and on a mission to raise up the next generation
4:58
of storytellers. We're called the Starfish Storytellers
5:02
after the moral of the Starfish story, which
5:04
centers on the power of one. Because no matter
5:07
how big the challenge, every action matters.
5:10
One step, one starfish, and one story at a time.
5:14
Every episode, we'll welcome a new storyteller
5:16
who will inspire and connect with you. So thanks
5:19
for tuning in. Now let's get started. Today's
5:23
episode is The Grain of Truth, Finding the Human
5:26
Stories Beneath the Surface. And with me today
5:28
is Tovet Nyser. I said that right. Tovet is based
5:33
in Toronto and began her career as an investigative
5:36
journalist before moving into entrepreneurship,
5:38
technology, and business storytelling. Along
5:41
the way, she's created innovative audio content,
5:44
launched some startups, explored how storytelling
5:47
can be used to create connection, and she's also
5:49
helped preserve memories and bring attention
5:51
to experiences that might otherwise go unseen.
5:55
She's also the author of Have You Seen Grandpa
5:57
Lately?, a novel exploring aging, caregiving,
6:00
family relationships, and the lives of Filipino
6:03
caregivers. Today, through her consultancy, Yellow
6:06
Bricks, which we'll spend some time on today,
6:08
Tovett works with founders, executives, and organizations
6:11
to uncover the human story behind complex ideas,
6:14
issues, and helping them communicate in ways
6:17
people can understand and connect. So what brings
6:20
together these very different chapters is a belief
6:22
that the most powerful stories begin by finding
6:24
the humanity underneath what's visible. So Tovet,
6:28
welcome to the Starfish Storyteller. We're so
6:30
happy you're here. Thank you for having me. It's
6:33
great. So we start every episode with our guests
6:36
introducing themselves in their own words. So
6:38
I've done a little bit, but I'd love to hear
6:39
in your own words. So before we jump into your
6:41
journey, is there anything else you'd like to
6:42
add for our listeners? Great. Yeah, I'll tell
6:45
a bit about what I do now. I own a consulting
6:47
boutique called Yellow Bricks and there I help
6:51
executives and tech companies find their business
6:55
story. So I do that mostly through workshops.
6:59
hands -on interactive workshops on storytelling
7:02
and personal branding. I help executives build
7:05
effective talks for conferences or events that
7:08
they have, and I help them with their brand and
7:10
communication strategy. How to tell that story?
7:13
Usually tech companies, more engineering, more
7:18
scientific, very complex, maybe I dare to say
7:21
boring. at the start, but it's never boring.
7:25
So we dig deep inside, we dive into the story,
7:29
find what could make their ideal customer persona,
7:33
their ICPs interested, where they hang out, how
7:37
to talk to them and do that, deliver that in
7:40
different ways. That's great. Another thing,
7:44
I'm a board member of two tech companies and
7:47
just to make things interesting, I also double
7:49
in stand -up comedy. Another storytelling platform,
7:54
which is probably the hardest. Okay. Well, we're
7:57
going to talk about that too, now that I know.
7:59
And I think actually, I remember when we were
8:01
connecting ahead of time, we had a conversation
8:03
about that. That's right. We did. We did. Okay.
8:06
Okay. That's a good icebreaker. For sure. For
8:09
sure. So thank you for sharing that story about
8:14
that executive and how you were sort of explaining
8:18
to her. the value and the beauty of taking up
8:21
space and how really it's not necessarily the
8:24
person physically. She's a big persona because
8:28
she's an executive and she's done these amazing
8:30
things with the volunteer work that she's done.
8:34
I know for me, I'm very much as a marketer, I'm
8:37
always on the other side of the camera. So I'm
8:40
used to promoting other people. Um, you know,
8:44
I've had conversations with people who said,
8:46
you know, you're a woman entrepreneur, you're
8:48
a woman leader. Like you need to be talking more
8:50
about your story. You were just telling how important
8:52
that is. Um, I urge to switch. And it's hard.
8:59
It's hard to do that. It's hard to do that. So
9:01
I was excited about meeting you and having you
9:04
come today because you've just had so many different
9:06
contexts of where you've taken storytelling and
9:10
we'll definitely spend lots of time on yellow
9:12
bricks. I want to know where that name came from.
9:14
I have an idea, but I want to hear it from you.
9:17
So here at the starfish storytellers, we do talk
9:19
a lot about the idea of how stories make a difference.
9:22
That's the whole concept of the starfish story.
9:25
And Stories can help us understand things in
9:27
new ways, bring attention to things we've overlooked,
9:30
maybe preserve an experience that matters. These
9:32
are all things that you've done and make a complicated
9:35
idea feel human. I've had some other sort of
9:39
brand storytellers and comms professionals on
9:42
the show and they've talked about drawing out
9:46
that humanity from the executive. You've got
9:49
the executive that's standing at the front of
9:51
the room and everybody's looking at the executive,
9:53
like the CEO, and they have an idea or a vision
9:56
of this person. But when she would work with
9:59
them and show this, what you do too, is really
10:01
kind of pulling that, extracting that humanity
10:04
out of them. And I have a story I'll tell after,
10:07
but I think that it's really important to do
10:09
this because we are surrounded by information.
10:13
constantly now, and it's dizzying, really, how
10:16
much of it. So information and understanding
10:19
aren't really the same thing, right? So it's
10:22
the story, the human experience underneath the
10:24
facts, underneath what's on the surface that
10:27
really is going to help people pay attention
10:29
and care, I think. bombardment of information
10:35
and ads and people asking for my time, which
10:38
is the most invaluable thing that you will never
10:41
get back. So that's a huge apps. That's why I
10:43
tell my clients, I tell them, you have to connect
10:46
to the right people. You don't just have to sprint
10:49
pray thing. Who's the audience? What's the goal?
10:52
What do you want them to know? What do you want
10:54
them to achieve from that communication? And
10:57
then what's in it about you? Why you are not
11:00
someone else. What makes you so memorable? I'll
11:04
just in brackets say that in standup comedy,
11:07
which is very, very far, but maybe not too, you
11:09
can tell a lot of jokes. You can tell the same
11:11
joke that I can. There's so many jokes that are
11:14
general. I think dare to say that many of Seinfeld
11:17
jokes are just things that he noted and anyone
11:20
can. They're funny because he was the first one
11:22
and he's amazing. Right. But still is that unique
11:27
to him? What's unique when he delivers it is
11:30
the tone and the way he does that. He has that
11:34
pinch. He's very fast. He's very smart. So when
11:37
you do stand up, if you want to be very memorable
11:40
and impactful, you should come up with what is
11:42
it that you are the only person who has that
11:46
maybe a physical trait, maybe something emotional,
11:49
maybe an experience you had, and that's only
11:52
you. Now it could be just the same traffic. You
11:56
experience traffic differently than me. Maybe
11:58
because I'm a cyclist, maybe you take the TTC
12:01
or commute with your car, but that's already
12:05
a different standpoint. And the starting point
12:07
is what is so unique about that executive who
12:11
might have a PhD in nano optics or whatever,
12:14
something super complex, no one understands,
12:16
but he has something that's his. When he goes
12:19
on stage versus his exact competitor, the identical
12:23
company, Still he can do something else that
12:26
talks to people leaves a mark and stays with
12:30
them because it moves a needle. That's what we're
12:32
aiming at messaging. Yeah. Yeah. And that, I
12:37
mean, that's, that's it. I mean, it's the emotional
12:39
connection, right? It's the emotional connection.
12:43
So I did want to talk a little bit about your
12:45
background, just kind of what got you to Yellow
12:47
Bricks. You started in investigative journalism
12:50
and with a really very interesting story. It
12:54
was the practice of, you investigated the practice
12:57
of medical students performing pelvic exams on
13:00
anesthetized women without their consent. So
13:03
there were facts to uncover in the story, but
13:06
underneath those facts was something bigger,
13:09
bodily autonomy, consent, power, a woman's right
13:13
to know what's happening when she couldn't speak
13:15
for herself. And it raises an important question
13:19
about what storytelling can do. when something
13:23
harmful has been normalized or it's been allowed
13:25
to remain out of public view. So can you take
13:29
us back a little bit to that investigation? I
13:31
was really curious when I was getting ready for
13:33
the podcast. How did you discover what was happening
13:37
and who were you able to talk to? And then what
13:40
happened after the story broke? Right. So interestingly
13:43
enough, it's not only me, a female, bringing
13:47
that to surface, but also the insider. The person
13:51
who ticked me and told me that's also a medical
13:54
student, a female young woman who came up to
13:57
me and told me, this is just what happened. I
14:00
try to speak with a professor. He said, well,
14:02
she's asleep. We can go ahead and do that exam.
14:06
And she was shocked. But also there is this seniority
14:09
thing, your young 20, early 20 student. And he's
14:14
a professor in his sixties or seventies. This
14:17
has been practiced. a practice that's been going
14:20
on for years. So can you really stand up and
14:25
say, stop, this is wrong? She did. It didn't
14:27
help. So she came up to me and she told me, I
14:30
don't have more information. You should just,
14:32
she sent me on my way. It took me six months.
14:35
And I was able to reach out to 14 medical students
14:39
on record, giving me their story, their side
14:43
of the story. At times I felt gaslighted. You
14:47
know, they said, what? If we will ask, she will
14:50
say no. And then how will medicine advance? Which
14:56
at times made sense. I was a young journalist
14:59
and like thinking, well, they point there because
15:03
how would they? But then I use the equation of,
15:06
let's say your house is full of gold and glitter
15:10
and someone comes up to your house and he knocks
15:12
on the door and he asks, Hey, can I have all
15:14
that gold? You would say. probably no because
15:17
he's someone you don't know a stranger so then
15:20
he'll wait for you to fall asleep or go on a
15:23
holiday and go into your house because otherwise
15:26
how would he get that you know precious thing
15:29
those precious things so that didn't make sense
15:33
but it was playing with my mind others said i
15:37
never thought of it like that others said I'm
15:41
so young, early in my career. What can I say?
15:45
I'm just one person. All that. There's so many
15:48
avenues to take that response. And I heard different
15:52
stories, but all of them said, yes, it's happening.
15:56
We're doing these examinations and checks on
16:01
women who cannot refuse. So my prerogative, I
16:07
think my responsibility as a young woman as well,
16:11
and given that information from another young
16:14
woman was to share their voice, even though they
16:18
did not even know it's happening. I think that
16:20
was the hardest journalist case that I had because
16:23
we couldn't ask anyone's response. You cannot
16:27
come to someone who has Like the victim, you
16:31
cannot go up to them and say, what do you think
16:34
in your defense or in their defense? We didn't
16:36
have two sides here, but one side, like you said,
16:39
was definitely muted. And that's where my responsibility
16:44
as a human being was to come up with a story.
16:46
The story component here was very, very crucial,
16:51
you know, because you have a narrative where
16:54
the main character who's going through something
16:57
does not is non -active or present. She's not
17:03
a present character in the story. So that was
17:06
my responsibility. It was really hard, six months
17:11
of chasing these people. Some came up to me and
17:15
saying, you're doing a bad thing. You're just
17:17
tarnishing us. You're tarnishing our name, the
17:20
Institute of Hospitals. You're slowing down medical
17:24
advancements, our knowledge, our education. Things
17:29
that could at time when it's one -on -one could
17:32
sound logical in a way, but I always had to go
17:36
back out of that and think of them, of those
17:40
muted women, of these muted women who did not
17:43
know what they're going through at the point
17:46
in their life, which is probably one of the lowest
17:48
because they're going through something huge.
17:51
They came for one bad thing and without knowing
17:55
were given another very bad things went through.
18:01
So it took six months to uncover all that. It
18:05
was published. You asked me what happened afterwards.
18:10
Sadly and honestly, I cannot promise that things
18:13
stopped or changed. I noted in the States years
18:16
ago, maybe in the nineties and two thousands,
18:20
these things happened and they were out in one
18:24
of the big major platforms, outlets, media outlets.
18:29
I don't know if it stopped there. I don't know
18:31
if it stopped other places. That's the bad thing
18:34
about journalism in a way because at times you
18:37
feel like this is just the paper that's wrapping
18:39
up tomorrow's fish because there's so much information.
18:43
There were some politicians, female politicians
18:46
that took that up and try to pass a law or something
18:53
to do with preventing it. Sadly, I cannot say
18:57
that it was forever forbidden. And it's annoying.
19:02
I love journalism. After a while, I felt like
19:05
it was just a lot of grinding. And as much as
19:10
I wanted to make, to leave a huge impact and
19:13
to make a change and drive positivity and stop
19:16
negativity, it was tiring. It was hard. There
19:20
are a lot of things that are out of your hands
19:23
when it's commercial media. There are the advertisers
19:28
and there are some things underneath the surface
19:31
that prevent some stories to come out to light.
19:36
So that made me just very less naive that I came
19:40
into that profession, very tired. And I moved
19:44
on to doing stuff that are more creativity dependent
19:48
or focused, being my own boss. chooses how do
19:55
I spend my storytelling skills and how do I make
19:59
a positive difference or just create positivity
20:02
because news is also very draining. It's very
20:06
sad. It's very annoying when you want to uncover
20:09
to make a huge change. It means that for six
20:11
months you have to chase people who are doing
20:14
something that's less optimal. And in different
20:18
spaces. I mean, all those, the time and the period
20:21
where I was investigative journalist was hard.
20:24
It was exciting. I felt a bit like Nancy Drew,
20:27
like chasing stuff and stories, but I was also
20:30
getting threats of my life and the good things
20:33
that come, the perks that come with the job.
20:37
I know I come from a journalism background myself,
20:40
but just hearing you tell this story, you did
20:42
make a difference. You planted a seed. You uncovered
20:48
something. that had not been uncovered, and you
20:52
were able to take something that a young person
20:54
came to you, an observation that they had, an
20:57
experience that they were having, and you were
20:59
able to use a platform that you had at the time
21:02
to the extent that you could use it. I can say
21:05
that funny enough, it was postponed for a while.
21:09
I had enough of the interviewees, enough of the
21:13
evidence. But the editor keeps saying, we need
21:17
to find the other story. You need to bring the
21:19
other voice, which was very ironic because there's
21:23
no other voice. That's why I'm doing this. That's
21:25
why we should do it. And one day I just stepped
21:28
my foot up and I said, we have to come out with
21:31
this. I've spoken with too many. It might leak.
21:34
And I asked for a comment from the hospital,
21:37
which was centered. Most of the interviewees
21:40
were centered there. And instead of sending me
21:44
the response, they send it to the competing,
21:47
to the competing newspaper. So the competing
21:51
newspaper had this very hot topic in their hand,
21:56
but very one sided. They just got a response
21:59
from a leading hospital saying, yes, we do these
22:04
exams without them knowing. But so they reverse
22:08
engineer the whole thing. And the next day, which
22:11
was my front page story, the competing newspaper
22:16
had the same thing. So all of the country was
22:21
reading the same story on that day. So all hospitals
22:24
were talking about it. So you said I didn't make
22:27
any, the impact was there very strong for one
22:30
day. That was the only story that people talked
22:32
about because it was leaked. because it was postponed
22:36
so long you see with stories it's oh it's timing
22:39
in life it's timing and you have to really step
22:43
up and insist that the story will be out in the
22:47
open but you said that there was a lawmaker that
22:52
took this information and tried to do something
22:54
with it so right there whether that law passes
22:58
or not. I mean, I think it's a thing that as
23:00
a journalist, it's like, I can only go so far.
23:02
Like I only have this much power in this box,
23:05
but I'm going to use that power to the extent
23:07
that I could use it. And it is a huge platform
23:11
as a journalist, whether, and yes, your editor
23:13
is the gatekeeper. You know, they're the ones
23:15
that are deciding. But for a lawmaker to take
23:19
this information and try to do something about
23:21
it, I think it's huge. And I think it speaks
23:23
volumes about you were able to sort of bring
23:26
this to light. They were trying to kind of keep
23:28
it in the dark, and you basically shone a flashlight
23:30
on that dark corner. And yes, you said people
23:34
were talking about it on that day, the story
23:36
broke. But I'm sure there were women who had
23:41
gone through this, who were reading about this,
23:44
who had no idea that this had happened to them.
23:46
And I bet they were going back and talking to
23:48
their doctors and going back to these hospitals
23:49
and having conversations with them. Women who
23:52
in the future will go through some kind of procedure.
23:55
we'll have that in mind and think, oh, something
23:58
might happen to me while I'm not conscious and
24:04
call their spouse, their partner, the husband,
24:06
whatever, watch out for me. Because who knows?
24:11
So that's, I don't know if I put my chips on
24:16
the lawmakers so much as the people. Each one
24:20
read it, have that in mind, and hopefully we'll
24:24
remember. For me, Personally, I realize how stories
24:30
that rain, the tiny grain of truth has always
24:34
some kind of hold in reality. Cause that woman
24:37
came up to me, the young student, and she told
24:40
me that I felt shocked. I was like, well, no
24:45
way. And it sounded like one incident. She said
24:48
it might be bigger, but who knows. Right? So
24:52
me going on that chase on that journey. to discover
24:56
was something that stays with me. Cause I keep
24:59
going back to that thinking when you have something
25:02
tiny work with it, it can lead to major things.
25:05
Or when you have a young person, young woman,
25:08
a child coming up and saying something bad happened.
25:12
Start with believing, start with working through
25:15
that with children. It's always true. I have
25:18
to say. Yeah. Yeah. I'm listening to them. So
25:23
talking about children. going into from your
25:26
journalism background into some entrepreneurship.
25:30
So one of your early ventures, how do you say
25:31
that? Is it Ototo? Ototo Joyride was an interactive
25:37
audio experience for children and families that
25:39
you created years before podcasts were a thing.
25:43
The word wasn't coined, I think. No, I don't
25:45
even think it was. So it's interesting. I think
25:48
storytelling has evolved alongside technology.
25:50
I think back, you know, caveman days and even
25:54
people sitting around the fire oral storytelling
25:56
and that's how history got passed on to now we're
25:59
in print and radio and tv and podcasts and social
26:02
media now even ai but i think the fundamentals
26:05
of good storytelling are the same human connection
26:08
authenticity sometimes when you tell a story
26:12
there's some conflict or tension or a really
26:14
good story has a really good clear point of view
26:17
so where did the idea for ototo come from And
26:22
did you even realize how innovative it was? And
26:25
how do you hold onto these fundamentals when
26:28
the ways that we're consuming stories are changing?
26:32
So it's actually started 16 years ago. I did
26:36
not have children. I did not own a car. Never
26:39
only two years ago. She's crazy. And me and my
26:43
husband were backpacking in Spain. We had this
26:46
short ride in the car and he was looking for
26:50
radio stations. Mind you, it was the CD era where
26:55
you had that CD in the car, you had that box
26:57
and you can put music on. But the CD was not
27:00
playing and all the stations were in Spanish.
27:04
And he said, you know what, I can tune into something
27:07
that I relate to. And this is a boring ride.
27:10
And it would have been nice if we had these like
27:14
Scrabble and word plays and games throughout
27:17
the journey. And it stuck with me. We came back
27:21
after a few weeks of traveling and I started,
27:25
I sat down and started writing content for writing
27:29
with your kids. Now you can ask, how come you
27:33
did not have a car? I did not have that experience
27:35
for years as an adult. And I did not have kids
27:38
in the back seat, but took me a few years to
27:42
realize, cause I wrote something from scratch,
27:45
which was I created a world of characters that
27:49
ride with the kids and make them curious about
27:52
the outside world, like this captive audience
27:56
with their seat belts. Literally, they cannot
27:59
run away. But I didn't want to glue them to screens
28:04
because they were starting the format of having
28:06
your tablet in the backseat and maybe going through
28:09
TV shows. I wanted them to be part of the journey.
28:13
part of the ride, although they're not holding
28:15
the wheels. So they're not steering the road.
28:18
They're watching outside the world outside and
28:20
they get all these riddles and all these games
28:22
and all these stories accompanied or led by Ototo,
28:27
which is like an ankle, ankle in the shape of
28:31
a small car, green car. Ototo is actually a word.
28:35
It has two meanings in Hebrew. Maybe it's in
28:38
Yiddish. It means soon, not yet. And kids usually
28:42
ask their parents, are we there yet? Are we there
28:44
yet? And they're nagging. The parents in the
28:46
front seat tell them, auto -tour, auto -tour.
28:49
Like, we'll be there in a minute, in a bit, just
28:51
to stall and buy some time. So auto -tour is
28:54
the actual deferral. The parents don't need to
28:57
lie to their kids and tell them whatever, just
29:00
shut up or something. They play that. And then
29:03
all the family together become these... unit
29:06
of content and enrichment and knowledge and curiosity.
29:12
Now, when I started saying that I thought back
29:14
and deep on what made me really write it. And
29:18
it's because when I was a kid, I hated driving.
29:22
My dad gets so tense when he drives and me and
29:25
my sister in the backseat were so bored and he
29:28
used to play this radio station of soccer games
29:31
and it kept pounding in my head. I always had
29:34
this huge headache of boredom and being so captive
29:39
inside a tiny car, no air con and nothing's working.
29:44
So that actual auto talk car is made to resemble
29:48
that car that we had the same model, the same
29:51
rundown car, but now we transition into something.
29:54
positive, enriching, driving that curiosity and
29:59
teaching the kids so much while driving. Now
30:02
using the aspect of audio instead of visual makes
30:06
curiosity more active because you have to have
30:10
all the senses. You have to imagine things by
30:13
yourself. No one dictates how exactly this looks,
30:17
where exactly we're riding. So the one is there,
30:20
the responsibility is on the listener as well.
30:23
So there's a lot of work to be done, but in a
30:26
fun way. And when they're studying, it's not
30:28
like someone teaches them some words that they
30:31
didn't know from the screen. Now they need to
30:34
be more active and then the memory is more engaged
30:37
because they need to imagine what it looks like
30:40
and remembering. And that's part of storytelling.
30:43
Storytelling engages when it's performed well,
30:47
engages the senses. And when it does that, It
30:50
activates hormones and we're triggered. We're
30:54
scared. We're laughing. So we have better sense
30:57
of what's going on. We're more immersed in the
31:00
story. And then as a result, we remember it better.
31:05
We're more active. Yeah. Now, I think you have
31:09
children now. Yeah. Yeah. Four children and 10
31:12
and a half. Wow. Did you do this with them? After
31:16
they were born? Yeah. Yeah. A bit. Like I said,
31:20
we didn't have a car, so we drove once in, I
31:22
don't know, a week, two weeks, not a daily thing
31:25
like many kids listen to, but they loved it.
31:28
I'll tell you a funny story. I moved to Toronto
31:30
three years ago, and I think the second week
31:33
here, I went to this dinner with a new family
31:35
that also moved from Israel. And I mentioned
31:39
something about Autoto. The child who was then
31:42
16 stopped and said, do you know Autoto? And
31:46
I'm like, I sort of wrote it, produced it, initiated
31:49
it. I mean, it's mine. It's my brainchild. And
31:52
the family stopped the discussions, the talk
31:55
that we had and started singing songs. All the
31:58
family, I mean, he's 16 and he started saying
32:01
he grew up on that. And I also got recently an
32:04
email from a 21 year old man, young man who said
32:09
he used to listen to that while driving with
32:12
his grandmother. And she just recently passed.
32:15
And he was going through her stuff in her house
32:17
and he found that CD, but it was scratched. And
32:20
he was asking if I have a copy to send him. Like
32:23
you said about platforms and technology, there
32:25
are no more CD players in cars or at all. I mean,
32:29
they're hardly working. So I just sent him the
32:31
digital version. And recently I uploaded it to
32:35
on Spotify. So it's free and people can enjoy
32:38
and listen. So it's funny. It evolves. Technology
32:41
changes, but the content stays. And the person
32:45
who worked with me, he wrote the music. He kept
32:47
saying, this has no age. Good content does not
32:51
have an age. It's not a shelf product. It just
32:54
stays. Maybe the children grow, of course. And
32:57
now they show it or play to their kids or nephews
33:01
and maybe the way they listen to it. So it used
33:04
to be physical and then digital and now just
33:07
streaming. But it's still there because it's
33:11
good. Yeah. That's great. We remember the stories
33:14
of our childhood. We remember the storytelling
33:17
of our childhood. So this is a perfect example
33:20
of you had this out there in CDs and children
33:25
remember it. When we moved to Toronto as well,
33:28
I needed to clean out. a lot of things and from
33:31
the house we were in and I have three adult children
33:35
and my oldest is in his late twenties and I was
33:39
cleaning some CDs out of old Christmas CDs. He's
33:43
into fishing and it was a Christmas fishing CD.
33:48
He used to do it when he was young, like he was
33:50
late elementary teenager maybe. And when I gave
33:54
it to him, I said, do you want this? And he's
33:56
like, oh yeah, I'll take it. And he was going
33:58
to take it home and he was going to listen to
33:59
it. And he flipped it over. He showed it to his
34:01
fiance and he goes, see, I know all these songs,
34:03
see all these songs. I sing these songs. And
34:05
he's like, I can't wait to play these for you.
34:06
She's like, yeah, I don't know if I want to hear
34:07
them. He's like, he's like, oh yeah, you do.
34:09
Trust me. These are great songs. But like you
34:13
said, it doesn't matter what the medium is. It's
34:15
the content, the stories. That's what matters.
34:18
And it's part of him. I mean, that's his childhood
34:20
and that's who he is. It just reminds him or
34:25
transform him to that point. And how did he feel
34:29
on that day? It doesn't have to be the content.
34:32
It could be what happened around it. And what
34:35
are the stories that are adjacent? Yep. Yep.
34:38
Yep. Remembering that. So speaking about family,
34:42
I know that you've had some grief in your family
34:45
and you used processing that grief as a way to
34:49
preserve memories. I know that you lost your
34:51
mother unexpectedly. Sorry for your loss. And
34:54
you ended up co -founding, I'm going to say this,
34:56
I don't know if I'm going to say this correctly,
34:58
Memontage? Memontage. Memory Montage. Yeah. Which
35:02
is a platform designed to help people preserve
35:05
and share memories of loved ones who've died.
35:08
So it sort of raises that reality of like when
35:11
someone's gone, the story doesn't disappear all
35:14
at once, right? It might be, little details might
35:18
start to fade if they're not captured. the sound
35:21
of their voice or their favorite expression,
35:24
or maybe you're cooking and it's a recipe or
35:26
a family story that you've heard a hundred times
35:29
because they're the ones who told them. So my
35:32
question for you is what do we lose? And it's
35:35
not just personally, but I think as a family,
35:38
when those stories aren't preserved. Similar
35:42
to your son, a lot of things. are nuanced, a
35:48
lot of memories, a lot of stories and the things,
35:51
the objects tangible. It's not the physical thing
35:54
that they hold. It's what the memories that they
35:59
have within them. So when we don't tell these
36:02
stories, we forget lessons, we forget feelings,
36:06
we forget nuances that were part of our lives
36:09
and that person's lives and the light that he's
36:13
shown on us. So when I lost my mom, It was a
36:18
huge loss. But then I think the loss got bigger
36:22
actually, strange way, but it got bigger when
36:25
I became a mom, because then I did not have that
36:29
person who knew me really, really well to vouch
36:35
for me, to tell my stories. I did not have her
36:39
to share my history in her own words as a mom.
36:43
So I was lacking this point of view. And not
36:46
having that person was a huge, just a big hole
36:50
in my life. So I figured what would be a way
36:53
for them to know her without actually knowing
36:56
her. And that's why I started this venture, which
37:00
was a hub like Pinterest for people you lost
37:03
and love. And where you and all the other people
37:07
who knew that person share that together and
37:10
share pieces of things he said, quotes, stories.
37:15
actual photos after perfume because for now at
37:19
least we cannot transform that sense through
37:22
technology but who knows soon sound vision story
37:27
to see his or her songs her singing to hear her
37:33
the videos she loved videos she was on so seeing
37:36
clips of that but the irony is that it didn't
37:40
work and that platform did not work so when i
37:44
was Going around my ICT, my Adele customer persona
37:48
and asking them, people who lost someone like
37:51
myself, I asked them, would you use this platform?
37:56
Can you please share with me your boxes of, you
38:00
know, tangible things? I'll come over to your
38:02
house. I'll take photos. I'll capture everything.
38:05
It won't cost you money. I was doing all that
38:08
to lower the bar so they would just... be able
38:11
to see and enjoy those memories. And then I met
38:15
with these people and I had this tissue box,
38:17
because that's how I thought I could rank how
38:21
much they're connected. I was sure one tissue
38:24
box won't be enough. I was sure that there will
38:26
be sobbing and seeing everything comes to life.
38:30
No one touched the box. No one wanted to go through
38:33
it, not because they don't think about that person
38:38
or feel that they're missing. or miss that person.
38:42
It was because this was not the way for them
38:46
to deal with the memories. And that was a massive
38:50
grief for me. Saying that this failed felt like
38:53
I'm losing her again and again and again. And
38:56
it took me a few good years until my daughters
38:59
got older. And then I realized it's not technology.
39:03
This story is not on that platform. and that's
39:08
not the avenue. And I came up together with my
39:11
daughters with this thing that we call Grandma
39:14
Days. The beginning started at once a month,
39:17
now it's like two, three times a year, but it's
39:20
an event that we do on her behalf with her credit
39:25
cards, so to say. It's not her money, but it's
39:28
her spending, choosing, thinking off. her granddaughters
39:33
that she never met and doing something fun with
39:35
them. At the beginning, it was things that she
39:38
would have done. Like we went to a place where
39:41
she, as a child, told me she got these carrot
39:43
juice and we went and drank that there and we
39:47
did all these things that she would have. And
39:49
then it took a while until this evolved into
39:52
something that as a grandmother, she would do
39:55
with her granddaughters. So it was a shopping
39:58
spree. Why? Because that's probably what she
40:01
would have done. Why? Because she would have
40:03
listened to them. So she would have connected
40:06
and asked them, what would you want to do? So
40:10
it was transitioning into something very, very
40:14
fun that we did together. One time we reenacted
40:18
a photograph that she had. So it was really nice
40:21
because I have me as a teen with her and then
40:25
me and my daughters, her granddaughters, staging
40:29
that same photograph and just talking about that.
40:32
And I think since we started, my daughters keep
40:36
reminding her and mentioning her and quoting
40:39
her. A person they never met and say, what would
40:43
grandma say? It's perfect. It's really, really
40:47
nice. So she's alive through the stories that
40:49
we keep talking, keep sharing, keep surfacing.
40:54
That platform didn't work because maybe it was
40:58
Very individual. So you would go online by yourself
41:02
and not with a community of storytellers. You
41:05
would go through it and it would be quite static.
41:08
It would be very much unknown. Whereas when it's
41:12
a one month or twice a year event where you talk
41:17
about that person through something fun, not
41:19
a drag, not something boring, not something heavy,
41:22
but celebrate their lives through their stories
41:25
and surface their stories. then you don't have
41:27
to force it. I think letting go of that platform,
41:31
letting go of technology in a way helped her
41:34
stories find an active place in our lives. So
41:40
transitioning into your storytelling, you have
41:43
written a novel called Have You Seen Grandpa
41:45
Lately? And the book explores aging, family caregiving,
41:50
and the sandwich generation. And it also brings
41:53
visibility to Filipino caregivers who were women
41:57
that became deeply woven into a family's daily
42:00
life while their own families were thousands
42:02
of miles away. So in true investigative fashion,
42:05
you brought your journalism back. Before you
42:08
even wrote the novel, you interviewed 50 Filipino
42:10
caregivers. So you could really understand the
42:14
lives of the women that you were writing about.
42:16
And it was a fiction book from what I understand.
42:20
So I'd love for you to share with our listeners.
42:22
What made you want to tell this particular story?
42:26
What was your research process like? But I'm
42:29
curious out of the 50 conversations, was there
42:32
any that stood out for you? Right. So like Hemingway
42:35
said, a good story has one seventh off, one eighth
42:39
of the iceberg above the water. That's the short
42:42
story, but then you have all the deep information
42:45
below it. That's why I set out on this journey
42:48
because I felt it's just presumption, presumptuous
42:51
of myself to go and tell a story of a woman.
42:54
that's also a mom, but so far remote from my
42:59
life. It began when I was walking in the streets
43:02
of Tel Aviv and I saw many, many couples, so
43:05
to say, not romantic, but couples of a caregiver,
43:08
a woman from the Philippines and an old person
43:13
in a wheelchair, mostly men. And I thought to
43:16
myself, what will happen? Just a thought. One
43:19
day this unit, family sort of unit, will disappear.
43:24
Who will know? Who will notice? How long will
43:27
it take their family members, the Filipino and
43:30
the old men to pick up the phone? Because in
43:35
a way, the fact that you have a caregiver, a
43:38
paid caregiver, is sort of outsourcing the caregiving
43:43
process. And maybe it means that you're freed.
43:48
to do your own things and you know someone else
43:51
is taking care of that. So does that mean that
43:53
the cadence of staying in touch drops and then
43:57
maybe it lags and it takes you more longer to
44:01
pick up the phone and see if that person, maybe
44:03
your father or your grandfather is okay. And
44:07
then if one couple, one unit is gone, how long
44:11
does it take and what happened to them? And I
44:13
started kind of being very intrigued with that
44:16
imaginary two. duo that I created. So that's
44:21
on the surface, but below the surface. And after
44:23
interviewing so many and writing and publishing,
44:26
I started asking myself, what did I really write
44:29
it? And the reason or the answer is that, simply
44:32
put, I did not know my grandfather so well. He's
44:36
the only grandfather, my mom's father that I
44:39
knew. He's the only person, grandfather or grandparent,
44:43
but she kind of protected us from his Holocaust
44:48
story. He was a Holocaust survivor from Auschwitz
44:51
and it was terrible for a kid to learn about
44:56
these things. And at the same time he was very
44:59
reserved and he never opened up. So maybe she
45:02
was gatekeeping and afraid of one day all these
45:06
stories will just burst and the kids will hear.
45:09
So we were not very close. He was not very He
45:14
did not share a lot. So I missed all his stories.
45:19
And through this novel, I think my message to
45:23
my audience was you have to do that. You have
45:25
to spend more time with the elders in your family
45:29
and learn their stories just because it's interesting.
45:32
It could be because it's also relevant for your
45:35
life and your history and but it's also because
45:39
it's there and we have to uncover these stories
45:43
for us to learn from them. So that was it. The
45:47
process of 50 interviews was really strange because
45:50
I set it out and I told my older daughter, who
45:53
was back then nine, I think, I told her, I'm
45:56
going to interview 50. She didn't ask why so
46:00
many, but she kept keeping track every day. How
46:03
many, how many, how many? 30 something, 40 something.
46:07
And when I came home on the 50th, She asked me,
46:11
so mom, do you now know? And I asked her, what
46:15
do you mean? Know what? And she says, do you
46:18
now know how a mother can leave her kid? And
46:22
when that's saying, for me, it was crazy because
46:26
I figured, was she keeping track and waiting
46:29
to see what would the outcome be? Mom collecting
46:34
50 stories of another woman leaving her kids
46:37
so far away for so long, for years. Was she afraid
46:42
that I'm kind of learning something and understanding
46:46
how would I do that? Was she afraid? It gave
46:50
me goosebumps. I was so shocked. And I told her,
46:53
I understand them, but I cannot relate to that
46:58
in a way. I cannot take what they did and do
47:01
it. We're in different situations. We were brought
47:05
up differently. Oceans keep us apart. Apart from
47:09
the fact that we both mothers and women and hard
47:12
working and want to provide for our children,
47:15
but I'm luckily not in the situation that it's
47:19
even a question, even something that I need to
47:22
ponder. And the only reason I was collecting
47:25
all this information was to build an imaginary
47:28
fiction character that's rooted inside within
47:34
reality. But that's that has nothing to do with
47:37
us at home, me being your mom, and you can rest
47:40
assured, but it gave me a scare. You asked me
47:43
about one of the 50, if there's one. So of course,
47:46
all of them are super unique. And I have to say
47:49
that in the beginning, I was afraid I'm gonna
47:51
hear horror stories. And I did, and it was really,
47:55
really difficult. But then it just transitioned
47:57
into up and down, like life. Some stories were
48:00
amazing, some were really bad, some were, you
48:04
know, not too different than the others, but
48:06
one really stuck with me. And that was this young
48:10
woman who came to Tel Aviv to take care of these
48:15
old men. And after one week of working with him,
48:19
he told her that soon he's going to have a guest,
48:22
a female guest that's coming from Europe, from
48:25
Paris. And he wants to spend time with her on
48:29
their own. And he's okay to take care of himself.
48:32
So he just got her a ticket to Paris to switch
48:36
with that friend of his is coming. And after
48:39
spending one week in a foreign country, she flew
48:43
to Paris to spend a week or two weeks by her
48:46
own, by herself in this lovely apartment, feeling
48:51
like a princess. And she told me, I always dreamed
48:55
of that. And I was thinking, was that really
48:59
true? Because her dreams were to provide and
49:03
it was her first time flying outside the Philippines
49:06
so she made it to Israel to Tel Aviv but then
49:10
she was sent to Paris just on a whim and to do
49:14
whatever on her own so I thought of how funny
49:19
in a way it is that she said it was her dream
49:22
she felt like a princess but it felt also like
49:25
she had such a hard life maybe she never enabled
49:30
or allowed herself to dream so high up these
49:33
amazing things that could happen. And then it
49:36
did. It was just, I think, my sense is that it
49:40
was so much higher than what she was expecting
49:43
of life. And she got it. And it kept, it left
49:47
me with this message of you can dream so high,
49:50
but also leave space to kismet and, you know,
49:54
luck and things that just happen, serendipity.
49:57
Cause it might. And that's amazing. That's even
49:59
better than getting your own dream that you specifically
50:03
asked the world. Just have your hands open for
50:07
luck. And that story, it was so amazing. I was
50:11
so happy for her to have that. I think it's,
50:15
I think it's really powerful that here's a population
50:18
who I think for many cases was not visible and
50:26
you in essence gave their stories visibility
50:29
by taking the time to interview them and listen
50:31
and hear them. You know what it is to have a
50:34
platform. And I think when you were talking about
50:36
being a mother and with what your daughter said
50:39
to you, sort of that old adage of I can identify
50:44
but not compare. You know, I can identify with
50:47
being a woman. I can identify with also being
50:49
a mother. Maybe our lives don't compare exactly.
50:52
But I guess my question is You, you wrapped up
50:55
50 interviews into one, one character. So no,
50:59
there's one character and symbolically she's
51:01
gone, right? So she doesn't have a voice, but
51:04
there's another character, another Filipino who
51:07
sets out to look for them. And while doing that
51:10
and pursuing her dream on top of being caregiver
51:13
and providing for a family, her dream is to be
51:16
a journalist. And that's my excuse of sending
51:20
her out on these journalists. interviews. So
51:24
she goes out and speaks with so many as part
51:27
of her giving them the platform, her giving them
51:32
the place to share their voice. So she brings
51:35
in all these inserts, all these tiny micro stories
51:39
that I've collected. I mean, I had 50 interviews,
51:43
but she just gives snippets of this woman has
51:46
that and this and she talks with them about different
51:49
things while trying to discover what happened.
51:52
She leads that investigation on her own accord.
51:57
She chooses to look for that mystery and resolve
52:00
it. Like I mentioned before, Nancy Drew, she
52:03
is the journalist in the story. And that's the
52:05
literary excuse of me bringing in more than just
52:09
one missing Filipino caregiver, but actually
52:13
surfacing all the things that I've learned in
52:17
small stories. You should read it. I know I'm
52:22
going to get this book. This sounds like an amazing
52:23
book. So I know we've spent so much time today
52:27
talking about your history, but I do want to
52:30
talk about what you do now. Everything you've
52:32
learned in storytelling, you've brought it into
52:34
the business world. You're working with executives
52:37
and founders. You're working with organizations.
52:40
As you know, businesses have so many ways to
52:43
communicate now. They have so many mediums, websites,
52:46
social media, videos, presentations, AI. It's
52:50
a lot of content. But creating a lot of content
52:53
doesn't necessarily mean you're telling a better
52:55
story if the content doesn't have that human
52:59
humanity in it. We'll often see organizations
53:03
promoting themselves and sometimes you get lost
53:05
in the promotion and lose that human humanity.
53:09
So can you walk us through your process? And
53:11
we talked a little bit about it when we started,
53:13
when you're working with a business owner or
53:15
a founder, like, do they really understand the
53:18
value of storytelling? And maybe you could talk
53:21
a little bit about a client who through their
53:24
storytelling maybe has overcome some challenges.
53:27
Right. So I'll start with people not really understanding
53:30
the importance or the impact of a story. Um,
53:34
sometimes they lean into, because that's the
53:36
thing people say, share your story or become
53:39
a thought leader. What does that mean? Or take
53:42
up space, like I said before, but what does it
53:44
really mean? So the process is when it's a company
53:47
or startup tech company, we start with auditing.
53:50
What do you have? Like, is there a newsletter
53:53
and a podcast and all these noise ingredients
53:56
and components? Okay. This is what we have. And
53:59
then I have this triangle methodology, which
54:02
is. who's the audience, but really understand.
54:05
And there's a lot of work, not all of the companies
54:09
and executives can really define who their audience
54:12
and why is that the audience and not something
54:15
else. The group that's maybe not relevant to
54:18
what you need, maybe something transition, maybe
54:20
you pivoted and the ICP is now different. So
54:23
the first would be the audience. When you speak
54:25
to them, when you go on stage, when you go on
54:28
conference, online, whatever, it's always them,
54:31
the audience. in any story and then the second
54:34
component is the goal what are we asking for
54:37
them not just the attention but why do we want
54:40
them to buy something subscribe to something
54:43
do we want them to apply and become our employees
54:47
invest money etc and the third one is us if it's
54:51
one individual speaker or if it's one company
54:54
what is it so unique that we need to share with
54:58
them and they need to learn about us all these
55:01
three Once we have that, I help them with whatever
55:05
they need. So it could be there's a conference.
55:07
What are we going to talk about? What's that
55:09
talk on stage, that Ted talk thing that should
55:13
leave a mark and be memorable and impactful.
55:16
It could be training, mostly it's training their
55:19
employees. That's my easy foot in the door. I
55:22
get to a place, the LND usually, the learning
55:25
and development people or the HR executives.
55:28
call me up and say, we have this training budget
55:31
and we want to teach our employees storytelling,
55:34
communication skills, personal branding, and
55:38
it's very hands on. And at times it evolves into
55:42
other projects. So the executives need coaching
55:46
on specific things. The team need to work out
55:49
what's their story. How do they communicate it
55:51
internally, externally? So you asked me one example
55:55
of an impact that the story. had on a client.
55:59
So there's this big tech company that reached
56:02
out and they said, we have a great manager. She's
56:06
great at what she does professionally, but she
56:09
initiated this event that she's going to lead
56:11
the talk and the event itself. And she can really
56:15
She's not great with storytelling on stage. So
56:19
we started this process of a month working, coaching
56:21
her how to take up the stage, how to find her
56:25
micro stories. What's interesting about her,
56:28
not just tell us the knowledge, the facts and
56:31
the dry facts that you have, but why are you
56:34
telling me that? And what do you want me to take
56:37
out of the event? So we went into layers. One
56:40
was the personal aspect, what's in it within
56:43
her that will make this story great. And the
56:46
other was the interactive aspect. They were talking,
56:49
her topic was about building the plane while
56:53
flying it, how hard and difficult and complex
56:56
it is for a massive company, growth stage tech
56:59
company to do that while everything changes.
57:03
So the addition, the idea that I came in with
57:05
was to do origami of planes and build planes.
57:10
while listening to her. So she had in each slide
57:14
a step of how to fold it and then unfold it and
57:18
then open and then make that plane. But she didn't
57:22
talk or allude too much to that. She just had
57:25
it at the background. She mentioned it in the
57:27
start. And then at the end, after teaching them,
57:29
going through all the story, sharing her conclusions,
57:34
she asked them to fly that plane. And immediately
57:37
you see the division how each person in the audience
57:42
has something else. Some people said, what? You
57:45
didn't tell us. Well, I didn't know. Another,
57:47
well, I didn't have enough time. And the other,
57:50
it's amazing and fluid. That was what she and
57:53
I wanted them to get out of this. Not just knowing
57:57
what they've done and learning about how they
58:00
were building while flying, but also taking an
58:03
immersive part. in that experience and feeling
58:07
for themselves how difficult it is when you have
58:09
so much information and things change and shift
58:12
and you have these unreasonable crazy demands
58:16
of the business world and her boss her former
58:20
boss came up to the stage after she finished
58:23
that event and told her what happened i couldn't
58:27
recognize you like i didn't know it was you like
58:30
you changed your hair what is it and it was nothing
58:33
visual It was just a lot of work on finding that
58:37
thing that makes her spark and making all the
58:41
messaging work. I bet she felt amazing after.
58:47
I mean, I really, I think she probably felt wonderful
58:49
after that. She was a bit taller. Yes. Yes. I
58:53
bet she was. I bet she was. And that whole concept
58:57
of building the plane while you're flying it.
59:00
as entrepreneurs, we understand that. And I love
59:03
hearing that it happens even in the big giant
59:05
corporations as well. One of the stories that
59:08
I remember from being inside a big corporation
59:11
was during COVID, when everybody was home working
59:14
remotely. And every week, the CEO would put out
59:21
an update on return to work, when that would
59:24
happen, if it would happen. And we knew him.
59:30
from standing on stages during sales kickoff
59:32
meetings and how he presented himself in those
59:35
moments. We did see him at the four o 'clock
59:39
Thursday socials that he would hold for everybody
59:42
as he would, but he would always be surrounded
59:43
by other high level executives. You didn't always
59:46
see him mingling necessarily with everybody,
59:50
but it was in those COVID updates that the man
59:55
showed up and the humanity showed up. He knew
59:58
he had a global organization that was terrified.
1:00:04
They didn't know what was going on. And yet he
1:00:11
came down to our level. He aligned with us. He
1:00:14
talked about his fears. He talked about his belief
1:00:17
systems. He talked about wanting everyone to
1:00:20
feel safe. He talked about how the company was
1:00:23
trying to help everybody feel safe. How they
1:00:26
were making it easy for folks to be able to work
1:00:28
from home. I haven't worked for that company
1:00:30
for many, many years, seven years. And yet here
1:00:33
I am, I'm still telling the story of this CEO
1:00:37
because in his position, he still managed to
1:00:41
bring that humanity. And I think that's what
1:00:42
you taught that manager was, yeah, she could
1:00:46
get up there and she could talk about all of
1:00:48
the, she could present all the information in
1:00:49
the world, but you gave her a tool on how to
1:00:53
really show her humanity. Be herself, be candid,
1:00:57
authentic. We can talk about the elephant in
1:00:59
the room that we have not addressed at all, but
1:01:02
AI. People ask me, why do we need storytellers?
1:01:05
What do we need stories? I just prompt AI, one
1:01:09
of them, and ask an agent to, you know, vomit
1:01:13
a story and then it's there. No, we need stories.
1:01:17
We don't need noise. We need to understand, go
1:01:19
back to the drawing board and see. ask the right
1:01:23
questions. What do I want to talk about? Why
1:01:27
me? Who am I speaking to? And in my business,
1:01:30
I usually talk about the vitamin C that you need.
1:01:34
You need the creativity and you need the consistency
1:01:38
and you need the clarity. All these words, stories
1:01:41
have to be that. They have to serve a purpose
1:01:44
and be very present, consistent in a creative,
1:01:49
compelling way that sticks. I use AI. I do use
1:01:54
it. We create a lot of content for a lot of clients
1:01:58
and we have to be very agile and very nimble.
1:02:01
The way that I present it is AI assisted, but
1:02:04
human edited. I never take something that an
1:02:07
AI gives me and then just drop it. I have to
1:02:10
go through and it's not saving me. What it's
1:02:12
saving me is the typing time. That's what it's
1:02:14
saving me because I still have to go through
1:02:16
it line by line by line because personalization
1:02:20
is key. branding is key. Voice is key. And you
1:02:25
can have an AI that you've trained really, really
1:02:27
well on voice, but it still needs to be personalized.
1:02:32
It's still not going to capture the nuance of
1:02:34
the story, the real humanity of the story. And
1:02:37
you can train the AI all you want, but at the
1:02:40
end, it's still a machine. I mean, what do you
1:02:44
find? What do you find with AI? It helps. It
1:02:48
speeds up things. It enables people who are not
1:02:52
very creative maybe to dive into these fields
1:02:55
as well. But I feel like there's always, and
1:02:58
it could be very short, but there's always a
1:03:01
need for strategy in the beginning and human
1:03:04
interaction. So I need to meet the executive
1:03:07
and to speak with them and then understand what
1:03:10
they want and we can ship it through AI with
1:03:14
him or her chiming in and, you know, joining
1:03:17
a conversation every now and then. There's so
1:03:20
many things that it might miss AI. Micro stories,
1:03:23
if we don't ask the right questions. It evolves,
1:03:26
it gets better. But hopefully, well, at least
1:03:30
for now, I see a lot of people that can detect
1:03:32
when it's AI, there's something maybe too polished,
1:03:35
over -polished, too scheduled, too refined. I
1:03:39
want those scars and those smudges on the screen.
1:03:45
I want it. Because this is live. I don't want
1:03:47
all the filters. So I think it's not a love hate,
1:03:51
but adjustment. It helps. It's there. I'm not
1:03:55
scared of it. I prompt people to also be present
1:04:00
and responsible, ethically and responsibly using
1:04:03
it and remembering it's a machine. It is not
1:04:05
a person. You know, sometimes I talk to my AI,
1:04:08
like it's a person, but I remember that it's
1:04:09
still a machine and it's a tool and it's a valuable
1:04:12
tool. But you know, in other parts of my work,
1:04:15
I work with folks who are very afraid of it.
1:04:18
And so I know that even though I might use it
1:04:21
and it's a value to me, I have to respect that
1:04:24
other people may not want to use it or are afraid
1:04:27
of it. And are benefits to work with your own
1:04:30
head and hands and feel things and see people
1:04:34
and meet and interact. Well, maybe within a week
1:04:37
AI will be the best, but still we're here. We're
1:04:40
still wanting to be here and interact. Yeah.
1:04:43
So we can have the robots next to us, but still
1:04:46
enjoy conversations, interactions, creativity.
1:04:51
That's my aim. The creativity side. Yeah. Not
1:04:55
losing our brains. Exactly. I'm just going to
1:04:59
ask one more question, but we have run out of
1:05:01
time. So Tovet, I just thank you so much for
1:05:03
being here and for talking with us about your
1:05:06
journey. You've really reminded us that storytelling
1:05:09
isn't just entertaining an audience or just communicating
1:05:13
something effective. Stories really help us pay
1:05:15
attention. There's so much that is coming at
1:05:20
us and stories really help us pay attention.
1:05:22
They can expose something that might have been
1:05:24
hidden, preserve a memory. They can make the
1:05:27
lives of people who might not be visible, noticeable,
1:05:30
and bring them to the surface. And they can help
1:05:33
organizations understand, you know, behind every
1:05:36
message, there's a human on the other side receiving
1:05:39
it. Right. So thank you. Thank you for helping
1:05:42
us explore those foundational truths today. It
1:05:45
was fun. Thank you for letting me, giving me
1:05:47
the platform. Thank you. And to our listeners.
1:05:51
Whether you first heard us locally through BTV
1:05:54
studios in Bedford, Massachusetts or you're tuning
1:05:57
in from across the globe on Spotify, Apple podcasts
1:06:00
or Amazon podcasts. Thank you for listening.
1:06:04
We hope you enjoyed this episode and we'll see
1:06:06
you next time. Happy storytelling.