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Episode 9: Sorry means you’ve changed · the Unvarnished Edit

0:00
Welcome to episode nine of The Unvarnished Edit, where two friends talk about what it's actually like to live an adversity filled life.
0:08
Be prepared to laugh, possibly cry, and swear along with us.
0:12
This is Angie, and in today's episode, we discuss the concept of forgiveness and what that means to us.
0:19
We hope you enjoy.
0:20
Hello? Hello.
0:22
I'm doing really good.
0:24
How are you? I'm doing alright.
0:26
Yeah, I will say I think our last two episodes have been very I have a little bit of a long-term vulnerability hangover.
Yes.
0:37
Yes, but that's okay.
0:38
We persevere.
0:39
This is what we're here to do.
0:41
I had the, I got the best compliment this weekend or at the end of last week.
0:47
My daughter had to get some blood drawn, nothing major, just normal stuff.
0:51
But she had never had blood drawn before.
0:53
And so I like had prepped her really well for it and she knew exactly what was gonna happen.
0:58
And we got there and the phlebotomist was so cool.
1:00
And I said, okay, this is what she knows.
1:02
This is what we've agreed on.
1:03
She doesn't wanna know when you're gonna.
1:05
Do it.
1:05
She just knows when you release the rubber band, we're almost done.
1:09
Right? And so we're there and like, you know, she's sitting here and the phlebotomist is over here, so I like turn her head this way and I'm showing her reels and we're like watching funny stories and she's starting to make faces and I can see that it's not going well in the arm.
1:25
It's.
1:26
There's no blood coming out, and I can see her kind of like moving around trying to find it.
1:31
And you know, my daughter can definitely tell this needle is moving around in my arm.
1:36
And so after a couple what felt like minutes, but was probably 30 seconds, she popped the rubber band off and said, I can't get it.
1:45
I, I haven't gotten it.
1:47
And.
1:49
She, I mean, my daughter, her all, I think she looked, or I don't know what she did, but I mean her face, just the, all of the color drained out of her face and she passed out.
2:01
She was out.
2:02
I mean, when I say she was out, it was like sack of potatoes man.
2:06
She just like, and we didn't get a chance to like put her head forward.
2:10
She just was like, like this.
2:12
And I work great in a crisis.
2:16
I am so calm in a crisis.
2:19
That's called in my world, being alive.
2:21
And so I'm like, it was easy.
2:24
I was like, okay, go get.
2:26
I'm like telling the nurse what to do.
2:27
I'm like, you go get some cold water.
2:28
I'll get her positioned.
2:30
Like I'm like manipulating her and I'm like rubbing her back and I'm like, good morning.
2:34
Wake up.
2:35
Your mom's right here.
2:36
And like nurses are popping in to check on us and everything.
2:40
I'm fine.
2:40
Like I'm not concerned about this.
2:42
Whatever.
2:42
If someone's gonna pass out, we're in a medical facility, we're fine.
2:48
Yeah, so she gets, she starts to come too and she's embarrassed.
2:52
I can tell she's embarrassed and I'm like, it's okay, you can cry.
2:56
It's just me and you.
2:57
And the nurse hadn't come in yet, but I guess she was like listening on the other side of the door and she didn't wanna come in yet 'cause she heard me say, it's just me and you.
3:05
Nobody else can see you.
3:06
This happens all of the time I've passed out, I've cried before.
3:10
Everybody has like, I'm trying to like normalize this for her.
3:14
And so she kind of gets a little.
3:16
And then we're okay, right? So we come back and I'm like fanning her.
3:19
And so the nurse, she comes back in and we reschedule the appointment.
3:22
I said, ain't no way today, man.
3:24
And as we were leaving, she stopped me and she said, this is how a parent should be in this situations.
3:31
Thank you so much.
3:32
You being calm, helped me do my job.
3:35
Oftentimes parents just completely panic and it makes it so much worse.
3:40
And she was like, you handled this like textbook perfect.
3:43
Thank you so much.
3:44
And I was like.
3:46
That's right.
3:47
I'm a star.
3:49
But the reality of it was, sister, this ain't nothing I've seen Oh worse than this.
exactly.
Like the reason I'm able to do this is because I've experienced so many other things that much worse.
an issue that I'm like, this is easy, right? Of I mean.
kid passed.
course, I know.
My kid passed.
4:19
I know.
4:19
But now we gotta go back.
4:20
I'm like, dreading it.
4:21
We have to go back.
4:23
I know.
4:23
And she's gotta get it done.
4:25
And so, but I'm, I'm like, all right, I guess I'll just bring some orange juice and an ice pack with me.
4:30
I know what's gonna happen now.
4:31
Like hopefully they can just get it done next time.
4:34
But I'll be more prepared.
4:35
I'll have some orange juice and something for her neck and then they'll think I'm even better.
make sure she hydrates 24 hours beforehand.
4:43
Yeah, that's probably a big part of it is the water.
having enough.
She wasn't hydrated enough.
4:49
Yeah, man, she was, that kid was out for like a good, a good minute.
4:56
At least a minute.
4:57
I mean, she was like out.
4:59
I was pretty impressed, So Jim.
5:04
Yeah, that was my latest parenting adventure.
5:07
And then, and then we, you know, it's almost the end of the school year.
5:13
This is the end of my elementary school career.
5:16
As a parent, I cannot wait.
5:18
And so I take her to school and I'm checking her in.
5:21
I, you know, we went and got a donut and a boba, and, you know.
5:26
Trying to make her feel better.
5:27
And so we get to the school and there's obviously something going on at school because there's like tables set up everywhere and she's like, it's, it's 10 20 in the morning.
5:37
And she says, oh yeah, the art walk is today.
5:42
You're supposed to come eat lunch with me today.
5:46
And I was like, no.
5:48
oh.
5:49
And I was like, oh.
5:52
And she said, you don't have to.
5:54
And I said, no, no, no.
do.
5:57
Do you want me to? She said, you don't have to.
6:00
And I said, that's not what I asked you.
6:02
I asked you if you want me to.
6:05
And she kind of like.
6:07
She's like, can you at least bring me lunch? Everyone else, their parents are bringing them lunch.
6:12
And I was like, all right.
6:13
So we go in the office and I have to say to the lady at the front desk, what time am I supposed to be back for this art walk? And she looks at me like I'm an idiot.
6:23
And like I said, I just found out about it.
6:27
Okay, can you just tell me when it is? And she said, sixth grade should be here at 1140.
6:32
I'm like, Ugh.
6:33
I live 20 minutes away.
6:35
It's 10 20.
6:37
I have to go all the way home.
6:38
'cause I am not dressed, I don't have anything that I want the other moms to see me in right now.
6:44
So I have to go all the way home and get changed and then I have to go find lunch and then I gotta, I like, I, I came home, I said, Hey babe, I gotta go get lunch.
6:52
Bye.
6:53
I left.
6:54
I was so irritated.
It's the Ugh.
and downs of parenting.
6:59
Mm-hmm.
7:00
It's almost done.
It's almost done.
7:04
Not the parenting, just the elementary school.
Just the performance parenting.
7:10
Yeah.
7:10
Elementary school is so much work.
public performance parenting, which really only happens in elementary Oh, it's so much work.
7:18
It's so much work.
7:19
So, yeah, being at the end of elementary school and it's like, I'm sure it's in an email.
7:25
I'm sure I missed a communication.
7:27
I am positive that if I opened my inbox, the art walk was right there.
7:34
And it's just like that moment of like, I suck at this.
Yeah.
7:40
I really, you and and me just standing there for her to like have that body language of like, you don't have to.
7:47
'cause she knows, she knows I don't wanna do this.
7:51
And also she deserves to have a parent.
7:54
It's not like I had to get to work.
7:55
I didn't have anything I had to do.
7:57
I had the time and the system is not set up for us to be able to do this easily.
8:02
So I always feel so bad for parents that don't have the same kind of flexibility.
8:05
It's not fair, but it was like, I, what is my problem right now? Go get the lunch, come back and have the last spring picnic with your daughter who clearly wants you to be there, right? So I was just like, okay, fine.
8:18
I'm going.
8:19
I, I get that.
8:20
and honestly, this kind of, segues real good into our topic for the day because you know, we've said before like we have the adult kids and then we have the one that's still.
8:33
Still minors and their experiences of childhood are so different, and I have had to do I, first of all, I feel absolutely horrible.
8:47
Absolutely horrible.
8:49
That my youngest does not get to experience the same kind of parent that my older kids.
8:56
Now granted, he has better pieces of a parent, right? I'm way healthier emotionally, way more stable and all of those pieces.
9:04
But I did a lot of things for my older kids in school and we took more vacations and we just, we did more things.
9:14
Had siblings that were all together at one time where he doesn't have.
9:18
And, I've had to, I've had to do kind of a lot of work around that and just forgiving myself one for just being, not being in.
9:33
The same place, right, that I was before.
9:36
Honestly, he doesn't know any different and he loves the mom that I am.
9:43
I'm the one who has I'm the one.
9:47
right? Like I am the one who has the issue with that.
9:49
But I, and so I've had to do kind of a lot of work and I, I don't like the topic of forgiveness.
9:55
You, you've mentioned we need to talk about forgiveness, and I'm like, do we? Because.
10:01
I have people say love hate relationship.
10:04
I don't, I literally have a hate relationship Yeah.
10:07
with the word.
10:09
And I Yes.
10:10
because it has been so weaponized and has been the entryway to additional abuse, that I have a really hard time with this one.
Yeah, this topic is actually coming to us today because of a listener request because we've talked about it, but neither one of us have any and I think sometimes the obstacle is the way, right? That's a, a, a book on stoicism.
It's a saying from stoicism.
I bring it into my life a lot.
The thing that I am avoiding the most is the thing I have to do.
And so when we had, when I was in conversation with someone that listened to the podcast and she gave me a list of topics and, and I was like, yeah, we really do need to talk about forgiveness, because it's a huge part of being able to move forward.
And also I think, like you said.
It gets weaponized.
And so for me, I think the importance in having the conversation is to highlight some of the ways in which it has been used against us in the past so that maybe other people can be more aware of like what actually is forgiveness? Because I think the definition of it is where it gets abused is what I have come to understand.
Forgiveness is, is very rarely what I've been asked to give in the past, if Yeah.
makes sense.
11:42
Yeah.
11:43
No, absolutely.
11:44
Absolutely.
11:45
The thing for forgiveness for me is there are things that are absolutely unforgivable.
11:51
And I think the weaponization of it, even in like society and self-help and all of those pieces is like, you need to just forgive.
11:59
And no, No, I don't.
12:03
there are, there are things that are absolutely unforgivable Mm-hmm.
12:07
will never, I will go to my grave not giving forgiveness and I don't feel bad about it, Yeah.
12:14
and it does not eat me up.
Yeah.
12:18
In those situations, I forgive myself for letting it take up too much space in my life and letting it take up too much space in my head.
Yeah, so I think you'll like my definition of forgiveness.
12:34
I'm all ears.
I heard it on a podcast while I was in prison, and this was probably the most pivotal part for me was I heard this and everything changed, and I was able to let go of so much.
Are you ready? I am.
Forgiveness is giving up the hope of having a better past.
That's it.
I've done that.
I do that all the time.
That's all.
And that doesn't involve giving it to someone else.
It is, in my opinion, a completely internal job.
13:15
Yeah.
Forgiveness is not something that I can bundle up and give to someone else.
13:24
Yeah.
I can give repair, and this is where I think people mess up.
They conflate repair in a relationship with forgiveness.
13:35
Yeah.
I owe people repair in many situations, and that means being accountable for what I've done wrong, changing my behavior, and working through that with them.
Forgiveness is totally different than that.
13:54
Yeah.
Totally different.
And forgiveness without accountability and forgiveness without boundaries is abuse.
Let's repeat that again.
No, seriously.
14:04
Really, without, accountability okay.
14:08
forgiveness without boundaries is abuse.
without boundaries and forgiveness, without accountability is abuse And I have been subjected to that.
Mm-hmm.
I have been subjected to that so much in my life, and I think that's why I don't wanna talk about this because so much anger comes up of the amount of times that I've been asked to forgive and forget and I did it, and then I got hurt again.
14:35
Yeah.
And I think some of this comes from coming out of a high control religion where forgiveness is a very important part of it.
But accountability was never and changed behavior was never, Never.
it was never requested.
It was, forgive this person for what they did, or You're a sinner.
And it's like, but what about.
What about what they did and what about being held accountable for that and what about make a different choice next time? But it was just always the burden was, was on the injured party.
Always.
15:12
The burden has always been on the injured party.
15:15
Like Yes.
15:17
so many times, my husband and I will have the conversation of why is it honestly the victim's responsibility for healing, for, you know, being the better person for forgiveness, for all of those pieces where we're the injured party.
15:37
Why is that our responsibility as well? And I think that is that, that piece of the forgiveness conversation that I'm like I don't agree with that.
Yeah, I think.
15:48
don't.
I don't either.
And I think this can get really, really tricky.
It requires so much nuance to have a really good conversation about forgiveness.
And you know, earlier you and I were talking about something that happened in my life recently where I behaved badly.
I just, I didn't behave right and I don't need the other person to forgive me.
16:11
Right.
What I need is to first of all, own up to the fact that I did not live up to my own standards.
I appreciate the people that actually pointed it out to me.
I apologized and I am making changes.
I am recreating a structure so that I do not find myself in that situation again, because now I know something there activated me and I have to take responsibility for behaving poorly.
All of that work is so important as the person that did the thing.
None of it involves her forgiving me.
I do not require it.
If she wants to, that's fantastic.
If she doesn't want to, I accept that Also, Yeah.
am doing the work to not be in that spot again because I did not live up to my standard.
There are things you have to do in the forgiveness circle, Yeah.
but I don't think it belongs to anyone other than ourselves.
17:12
Yeah, yeah.
17:14
I'm thinking of, you know, how it is in relationship, like in that in the conversation of repair.
17:22
In relationship, right? Like Yeah.
17:24
I think forgiveness has been weaponized so much and yes.
17:29
In, in lots of different arenas, right? But it, it really honestly has been weaponized so much.
17:34
I think that's why this conversation is so hard for so many people.
17:40
I'm thinking about like in the relationship with my husband, right? Like when we talked about our, our relationship a couple podcasts ago and, you know, we were having the conversation of what's a healthy relationship? And how it is active repair when we harm, and where does forgiveness play a part in that? Because honestly, like for me, there is a piece to it of, me forgiving myself, one for harming.
18:08
'cause at some point, right? but when I've harmed him, like him, you know, him being able to say like, I get it and you know, I, and I forgive you for that happening.
18:20
That's a, a powerful piece though too for for some people.
18:25
And but it does all come down to that accountability, doesn't it? It does.
And I, I wonder in that situation, let's say, where you've done something that requires repair, right? You've hurt his feelings.
And you, I did this.
I didn't mean to, I wanna fix it.
I'm gonna change my behavior.
The, when he comes back and says, you know, I forgive you for that.
I don't, I think that's important to hear sometimes.
I also don't think, and I don't mean this in a taught sense, I mean this in a general sense.
I don't think that's worth a lot.
Your actual forgiveness is.
Us moving on together and not holding onto this.
I don't find the words to be that useful.
19:21
yeah.
find Yeah, it's the actions.
It's the actions The thoughts after this, you are right, it is, it actions.
19:31
Because without those pieces, everything is hollow.
19:35
That is Yeah, mean.
19:36
That is and he could forgive you and choose not to move forward in relation with you, like forgiveness isn't a pass.
19:47
Right, Right, because let's just pretend for right, because we're having this example that you just keep doing this thing over and over again and he's decided I'm gonna give up the hope of this past being better, so I'm gonna let it go.
And in that sense, forgive you, but I'm doing something different now.
So it's kind of like we look as for at forgiveness as like this magic.
This magical thing that when it's said everything's fine and it is not, if there's no action associated with it, yeah, and I think that's my, my biggest issue to it is like, you want me to forgive people, mm-hmm.
20:29
whose actions have never changed, whose actions continually to do harm.
20:34
I'm gonna forgive them for things that have happened.
20:41
Why? For what? I doing it? Because that's what makes me a good person, is to give a pass to abusive behavior? Well, it they say, right, that it lets go of the hold and the power and the space.
20:56
You can do that without forgiveness.
21:00
You can do that without forgiveness.
21:01
Yeah, you can.
21:02
And you know.
21:05
To think of it in terms of it's just giving up the hope of having a better past.
21:11
Like for me, at the moment that I felt that and took that in, it was I was giving myself permission to stop reliving all of the times.
21:20
I could have done something differently or made a different choice.
21:24
What's done is done.
21:26
I'm holding this bucket of shit, and that is not going to change.
21:30
I cannot redo these decisions.
21:33
I have got to drop it because I am now the obstacle because I can't stop saying I'm sorry for what I did.
21:40
It's holding me back when every conversation.
21:44
I am so ashamed and guilty that all I'm saying is I'm so sorry.
21:47
I'm so sorry.
21:48
I'm so sorry.
21:48
Right.
21:49
And I'm referencing me being in prison and reading this quote the first time, Yeah.
21:54
once I stopped trying to get other people to forgive me and started putting action into fixing the parts of me that made me in that situation in the first place.
22:09
Everything changed.
22:11
I didn't even have to ask for forgiveness anymore.
22:13
The forgiveness comes in the rebuilt relationship, the forgiveness comes in.
22:19
They now trust me to show up and be honest and tell the truth.
22:23
Right? Because I've done it.
22:24
I have shown them that I am not going to hide anything from you again, right? With my, in reference to my kids or right.
22:33
Or I'm gonna be, I'm gonna forgive myself because now I have this rule of if I start not telling people information and start isolating myself, something's going wrong.
22:45
And the only way I can make that right in myself is to go tell someone.
22:50
So I don't need forgiveness anymore.
Right, right.
22:53
I just need to behave in accordance with my standards and fix it if I don't.
Yeah.
I love your statement.
Forgiveness is in the rebuilt relationship.
It, it, it comes with.
Right.
23:09
Yeah.
I get so like, I'm so like amped up talking about forgiveness because it, it has been used against me so often and the amount of times I've been asked to forgive someone and forget and move on, and then they've come back and done the exact same thing to me and I didn't even know it and I felt like I was.
The person at fault, you know? of times I have harmed myself by forgiving someone else.
23:36
Yeah.
23:37
I have abandoned myself on behalf of making someone else feel forgiven.
Routinely, yes.
23:46
It's like, let me collect all this discomfort that you can't handle, and I will hold it.
23:54
And tell you to forgive me.
23:56
What? Like, that's so bonkers to me now Yeah.
and the times that I have refused to do it, the people that that has impacted it has made them so angry with me and Yeah, I've been called stubborn and obstinate and.
24:15
I would forgive you.
Why can't you forgive me? Hmm.
24:19
'cause you wouldn't have So I would never do this.
24:23
and two.
24:24
Yes.
24:24
That doesn't mean I'm a saint.
24:26
I do my own things, right? Your thing that you're doing is not my thing.
24:31
So we can't flip this around in an equal conversation.
Mm-hmm.
24:36
do that because I might do other things, but I wouldn't do this thing.
24:42
So there is no equivalent here.
24:43
These are false equivalents.
Yeah.
Yeah.
have had to though, in this forgiveness conversation, forgive myself for a lot of things.
And you're right, it is just understanding like, you know, having, no hope that the past is gonna be any different than it was.
And there has been a absolute pure physical piece to all of that Getting to that, that I'm okay with that, right.
Without the shame, without the guilt, without any of those pieces, because there have been so many times that, you know, in past, especially with my children, almost everything is with my children.
And that's, That's, that's not, thing.
That's, they've taught me a lot about life and relationships and yeah.
they're all so different and they all needed something different from me.
They also got a different time of life from me, each one of them.
Right.
And, there have been a lot of things that I have, a lot of times that I've just absolutely failed and completely messed up in those spaces and that conversation of, we did the best that we could with the tools that we had at the time, we're not gonna be perfect in any of this and having it be okay with it.
Again, the conversation still comes back to because there was changed behaviors and because there's accountability in that piece to it.
I often when I'm being really hard on myself.
For making a mistake, I often have to ask myself, am I allowed to make mistakes? Mm-hmm.
I allowed to not be perfect? Because I can really quickly get into the mindset of if someone calls me out, I can easily say, well, you just expect me to be perfect.
And the moment those words come outta my mouth, I'm like, Oop, I have a problem.
I'm the one, it's me.
I'm sorry.
I don't have to be perfect.
I'm allowed to make mistakes, and it changes the conversation, right? That shifts the conversation into where it should be, where it ought to be, into taking accountability for behavior.
I am allowed to make mistakes as a parent, as a wife, as a friend.
And really leaning into that and accepting that to me has been the first step to forgiving myself is, is really ingraining into me.
To be human is to a human experience is one in which we make mistakes.
27:28
Yeah.
This is how I learn and how I pivot from this mistake is the way that people around me learn as well.
27:39
Yeah.
27:40
Yeah.
27:40
I'm thinking of how seemingly easy it's for my kiddos to quote unquote, forgive me, right? Like.
27:48
There's been legit harm done thinking one specific time in general only because it was so quick and it was with Kayden and I mean, I was unhinged, absolutely unhinged.
28:02
I had that girl like talking to her up against a wall The whole thing was just absolutely unhinged.
28:09
And we literally get in the car maybe 20 minutes later and I said, I am sorry that was a total dick move.
28:17
Like, I'm so sorry.
28:18
And she's like, she's like, yeah, you were mom a total asshole.
28:23
And I was like, I know.
28:26
Like I am so, so sorry.
28:29
But how it always comes with changed behavior and so.
28:36
What do we say to those? Those people are like, I just really can't move forward unless you forgive me.
28:41
You know? What does that response look like? How do we change the conversation? How do we flip the conversation? That's a really good question.
I think I, I'm thinking of a couple really specific circumstances where I'm like, okay, if that person right now came to me and said, I need you to forgive me.
I think the first question I would ask is for what Yes.
can we understand Yes.
wrongs each of us are seeing? Right? So I, I think that would be the first thing I would ask is what exactly is it, are you asking for forgiveness for? And I think if we could get clear on that, I would probably say, you know, I, I can move on from this.
Our relationship is not, you know, if it's a big thing.
I'm talking about a big thing here, right? Our relationship isn't the same, and these are my boundaries.
29:40
Mm-hmm.
if we could stick to these boundaries and we can start to have some sort of in between with us, where it's going well, and you're respecting my boundaries and I'm respecting yours, we could see what happens.
I can move past it if that's what forgiveness is.
I mean, I guess, you know, what do you wanna be forgiven for and what does forgiveness mean to you? What would that look like? Yeah, What would that look like? yes.
30:03
That was gonna be my Yeah.
What does that even mean? what what does forgive, what does that look like to you? Yeah.
What would be different right now? look like, if it doesn't look like changed behaviors, And no, I.
30:16
it doesn't look like what we've said before, active repair, I don't want a part of that.
Yeah.
30:23
I will actively repair something with you.
Mm-hmm.
30:26
Absolutely.
30:28
Most of the time.
Most of the time there's, Depends on how many times.
yeah, there's always gonna be circumstances where we decide I will not engage in this with you anymore, Absolutely.
period.
And that's better for both of us.
30:42
Yes, and we had this conversation, you know, earlier, it's not our responsibility to constantly be teaching other people how to be better humans.
Yeah.
Not my job.
30:54
That's not our responsibility in this life.
30:57
It's sounds all nice, like we're just gonna give them, but why? Why are you consistently letting somebody.
31:06
Actively repeat patterns that are harmful to you and why is it your responsibility to, to teach them to be better? At some point, at some point you have to say, this is active harm Yeah.
31:23
me Yeah.
31:24
can no longer tolerate this in my life because it does not, it is it's harmful, Yeah.
31:31
End of story.
31:31
Like we don't need.
31:32
Just like no is a complete sentence.
31:34
It is harmful, no explanation needed.
31:37
I don't have to participate in relationships that don't feel good to me.
Right.
And I don't owe you an explanation either if this.
Depending on the relationship, right? Like if this is a first time occurrence, absolutely there's an explanation Yeah, yeah.
How did this hurt all of those pieces? Yeah.
If this is a repeated pattern and this is a repeated conversation, that is the reason.
32:00
Yeah, you know, I've often, The repetition of harm is the reason.
End of story.
32:06
And it's like when you're in a relationship where it's just like this constant cycle of like damage, non-repair, damage, non-repair, damage.
32:14
So I'm talking about a long-term relationship.
32:17
Neither one of us is getting anything out of this.
Mm-hmm.
32:21
the other person.
32:22
I guess the difference with me is that I'm not afraid of myself anymore.
32:28
I'm not afraid of the bad things that I did anymore.
32:31
I'm actually really happy to be able to say them out loud and take ownership of them, Mm-hmm.
32:39
so I can see where that's intimidating and scary to other people.
32:43
Maybe someone that hasn't.
32:45
Really been in that situation or had that experience or knows how to give themselves forgiveness.
32:52
And so I need you to make this right because I don't know how to make it right.
32:58
So I try and have some empathy there.
And also, I know you don't feel good about this.
33:04
There's no way.
33:06
Especially when it's with someone that, I know and I care about and I love, and I think that's the hardest thing when you have to walk away from a relationship of someone that you deeply love.
33:16
But it's just, I can't do this anymore, man.
Yeah, gotta give.
33:22
Something's gotta give.
33:24
And I don't know, sometimes I don't even know what it is.
yeah.
And it can't be my sanity.
Yeah.
Yep.
33:30
For sure.
You know, so forgiveness is tied really closely to boundaries, and when you don't know how to set boundaries, you end up giving way more forgiveness than is necessary or appropriate, I think.
33:46
yeah, 'cause the discomfort is too much.
Absolutely.
And honestly like.
We've we're conditioned at such an early age, such an early age to do this, right? Like, oh, you hurt someone.
Go say you're sorry, right? Mm-hmm.
then the other person needs to say, it's okay, you know that, that you did this.
And we literally teach it from a very, very, very young age.
And so we, we grow up thinking that's all it is.
34:18
That's all it is, is the words.
That's all it is is just, well, they said they were sorry, so we need to forgive that.
as long as we say you're sorry, whether there is a change in behavior or not.
We still need to they said that they were sorry.
So as much as I was absolutely against this conversation, and believe me.
Everyone listening, Jaylene can attest.
I was absolutely like, no, I don't wanna do this conversation.
And she was like, but we really, we really need to.
And I was Yeah.
like, no, I really don't wanna do this conversation.
And she was like, okay, but we really need to.
And I said, okay, fine.
I'll do this conversation.
We'll see where this goes Yeah.
I am super glad we've had this conversation because honestly, it has taken the power out of that word.
35:07
Yes.
So like forgiveness is no hope that the past is going to be any different.
But the other key piece to this is forgiveness is in the repaired relationship.
It's already in there when we have changed behaviors and when we have made active repair.
35:28
Yep.
That is that piece.
35:30
Yep.
35:31
One time you'll like this story.
35:33
One time I left marriage counseling and we were in the parking lot and it hadn't gone well and we had driven there separately and.
35:42
Isn't that, isn't that a metaphor? We had gotten there separately Yes.
35:47
As we were leaving and I was getting in my car, I screamed at the very top of my lungs.
35:51
Sorry, means you'll change motherfucker.
35:54
And then I got in the car and I left.
35:56
So That is the name of this episode, sorry.
36:03
Means you'll change motherfucker.
means you'll change and on that note, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
So if you have struggled with the.
I would say outwardly concept of forgiveness and how that applies in your life.
Take a step back.
36:25
Take our hot take.
Yeah.
Take, yeah.
Yeah.
Let this, let this sit minute and then maybe listen again, Yeah, Yeah, for I give everyone permission to forgive no one.
Yes, As long as you commit to working on yourself and taking responsibility for what you do and then revisit forgiveness.
yes, Come back to it.
36:54
Yep.
36:55
Yep.
36:55
Absolutely.
36:56
I love that.
36:57
What a fantastic conversation.
know.
37:00
As always, I love you.
I love you too.