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Dana S. Diaz – Gasping for Air · Postcards to the Universe

0:08
Welcome to Postcards to the Universe with Melissa Capria. Do you believe in magic?
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What if you were told that all you had to do was get a
0:18
little creative and work a magic spell to bring anything you can imagine into your
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life. Here on Postcards to the Universe, we will share manifesting tips,
0:29
postcards, creativity, abundance, and prosperity. Here's your host, Melissa Capria.
0:38
All righty, hi, and welcome to Postcards to the Universe with Melissa
0:42
Creating the life you crave. Let's see, we're starting off twenty twenty four
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with a little glitch, but that's okay, that's what happens with the live
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show. So what I was saying before I realized that nobody was hearing me,
0:54
was I was saying Happy New Year, and I hope everyone had a
0:58
wonderful holiday season. And I was talking about how much I love the time
1:04
between October through the New Year, and that I always suffer a little bit
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of the post holiday blues. So but you know, it is what it
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is. I'm just like, Okay, we gotta go, you know,
1:18
we gotta wait till Halloween time again. But I hope everybody really enjoyed their
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new year. And I have a really cool show today coming out of twenty
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twenty four. I have best selling author Dana Diaz, and we're going to
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be talking about her book, which I just finished about an hour before we
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went on. It's titled Gasping for Air The strangle Hold of Narcissistic Abuse and
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is really really good. So she's gonna join me in just a few minutes.
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And so thinking about the new year, I know a lot of people
1:53
like do resolutions and all that kind of stuff, and I'm not big on
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the resolutions. I think sometimes that sets us up for failure. So I
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just think, like, you know, what did you what do you intend
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for twenty twenty four? Is it a change in your life? There things
2:12
that you need to let go of. Those are always good things starting off
2:15
the new year, like a nice little reset, Like do you intend to
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grow your career? Do you intend to go into a relationship if you're not
2:23
in one? Do you intend to move locations? Are you holding on to
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old resentments? And you need to forgive some people moving into the new year.
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So those are the things that I like to think about moving forward.
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So that's where my heart is. And of course I have some changes coming
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up, and as they roll out, I will share them with you guys.
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A little bit about me for those who are new and listening to my
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show for the first time. I am a photographer and an artist. That's
2:54
my background. And I also have a book and it's titled Postcards the Universe.
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Harnessed the Universe's power and manifest your dreams. And in my book,
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it's all about manifesting, and I have people make a manifesting postcard and it's
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kind of like a mini vision board. And this is a great time of
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year to do one, by the way, to sort of set what it
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is you want to bring into your life in twenty twenty four. So the
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book has thirty manifesting postcards that I photographed along with a person's story when they're
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manifestation became their reality. So I put together. I put it together in
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a way that it covers, you know, the major areas of our life.
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Like we always want abundance in our health, right, we always want
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abundance in our money. We always want abundance and love and what we do
3:46
with our life, right, we want to feel fulfilled and abundant. So
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I broke it down in those sections, and I have tons of fun little
3:55
games to play, actually exercises games to bring in more of those things in
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the different areas of our life. Like I talk about a healing ritual that
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I do when we're talking about manifesting health that I have in there. I
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have a love box if you want to bring love into your life, about
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how to create one of those? Yeah, I have. Of course,
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money, money is always great, right who says no to money? So
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I have a bunch of fun exercises to manifest more money in our life,
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and you know, just writing writing exercises that will help us get really clear
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on what it is we want to manifest. So you can check that out.
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Of course, you can get my book on Barnes and Noble and Amazon,
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or you can go to your favorite bookstore and if it's not already there,
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you can ask them to order it for you and they will do that.
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I started last year doing some workshops and I have one that I'm doing
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and it's Thursday evenings, and I'm going to continue doing this workshop. And
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it's put and it's about manifesting through gratitude. So it's a five week workshop.
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It's Thursday evenings. Six to eight pm. It's online, so you
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can be in the comfort of your home, and we're going to talk about
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how to manifest more of these things that I was just talking about, but
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we're going to be using gratitude and how we focus on gratitude to bring those
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things into our life. And what I did for the workshop, which I
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think is really fun, is I teach everyone how to use our camera phones
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as part of our gratitude practice. So anything you want to know about me
5:30
and links to the workshops, you can find on my website Postcards to the
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Universe dot com, So just go over there. You can click on workshops
5:38
and you'll find out about the workshops I'm doing if you're interested. And it's
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a rotating workshop, so it's going to keep going. We start five weeks
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and then we're going to roll them over because they're just so much fun to
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do. And I also because of my book and I started this. I
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wouldn't say the last six months, but probably the last few months I started
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doing lives. I have readings from my book and you can follow along on
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my social media's. I post them on Instagram and TikTok and share them on
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LinkedIn and YouTube, so if you're interested, you can follow along as I'm
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reading from the book and I'm rephotographing the postcards. So I usually put a
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postcard out every Monday with an affirmation that I photographed, but the last two
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weeks I haven't because of the holiday. I took a couple of weeks off
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and just kind of catching up with myself this week, as I imagine all
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of you guys are. So it's really fun to photograph the postcards and rephotograph
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I'm from where I was originally to where I am where I am today.
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It's just like amazing how much we change in such short periods of time and
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where we're at. So, like I said, anything about me you can
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find on my website postcards to the universe dot com. And I'm always asking
6:55
for people to send me a manifesting postcard. Please do it. Now's a
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perfect time. It's the beginning of twenty twenty four. What do you want
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to bring in? Make a postcard around it, send it to me.
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You can find out where to do that on my website, or if you
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have any questions, I teach I tell people how to do it over on
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the website. But if you need more help, reach out to me.
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You can email me anytime. I am an open book and I'm always willing
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to help anybody, all right, So let me get to our guest today,
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because this is really interesting, especially when we're talking about relationships. A
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lot of people want to manifest a healthy love relationship, and a lot of
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people are in very toxic relationships, and some people are in very abusive relationships.
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So we're going to talk to Dana sds today and she is a wife,
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mother, and author of the best selling book Gasping for Air, The
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Stranglehold of Narcissistic Abuse. And Dana has had lifelong experience with narcissistic abuse,
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beginning in her childhood. Her education and journalism and psychology at DePaul University in
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Chicago gave her the ability to accurately verbalize and express how narcissistic abuse creates confusion
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and conflicts within victims, so that she can help others know they are not
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alone and better stand their own circumstances. Today, Dana is a proud voice
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for fellow victims who are unafraid, unavailable, unable excuse me, afraid or
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ashamed to share their experiences. She strives to create awareness and understanding to ensure
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victims are given the support they need to first understand their situation and then begin
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the healing process. Her book Gasping for Air, which chronicles her own abuse
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of marriage, it certainly does that. Like I said, it just finished
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it an hour ago, that lasted nearly three decades. Started as a journal
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that she hid under the couch cushion in the basement, and inspiring true story
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filled with strife and revelation, Gasping for Eric exposes the raw truth of emotional,
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psychological, and physical trauma and is a bold testament of survival. Dana
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is in the process of publishing the prequel and the sequel to Gasping for Air,
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and if you want to find out more about her, you can go
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to her website, which is Dana sds dot com and I'm gonna spell it
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for you d A n A S d I A Z dot com. Welcome
9:22
Dana, thanks so much for being here with me. Oh, thank you
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so much for having me, and thank you for reading my book. I
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never know what to say when somebody says it's a good book, because you
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know, it wasn't so much fun to live it. But yeah, sure,
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I've heard it's a it is a page turner. It is a long
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book. I was telling her, I'm a fast reader, so it was
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a long book. But it's you really went into great detail about your relationship.
9:50
And I was struck right from the beginning because you saw the red flags
9:58
right out of the right. I got it. And I know you were
10:05
very young when you were nineteen, right when you met your ex husband.
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You were nineteen. Yeah, so you know when we're young. And then
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as I was like, because at first I'm thinking, oh my god,
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no, why, And I obviously knew you went there because you wrote the
10:18
book thinking like, no, don't don't go there, don't go over there,
10:24
don't go to his apartment. Don't do it, Dana, don't do
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it. But I understand now because you do talk a little bit about your
10:35
growing up and what you had experienced in your childhood. So it makes sense
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how primed you are to repeat those patterns, right, Oh? Absolutely.
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I mean the second I met my you know, the star of the book,
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I guess, uh, yeah, I knew he reminded me so much
10:56
of my stepfather, and that was not a good relationship. So it is
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awful to think back and think that I you know, went against my gut
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instinct and proceeded not just to go to his apartment that night, but then
11:13
to actually be with him and marry him and continue on with everything that was
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going on. And you know, you read the book, but there's so
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much that didn't even make it in the book. There's so many more.
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Sure, the book was long enough, So yeah, it's very interesting.
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But you know, that's why I'm actually in the process of publishing the prequel,
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which tells about my childhood. And certainly some people have had, you
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know, more horrific experiences, and I'm not you know, dismissing that,
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but I think that the way we grow up, in the dynamics we see
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between the people who raise us and also the way that they treat us,
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absolutely primes us for whatever we you know, experience in our adult relationships.
12:01
Because you know, yeah, there was you know, a lot that happened
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in my childhood, but the primary thing that affected me and still affects me
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to this day sometimes is you know, the verbal abuse. Yeah, my
12:16
stepfather was one of these people who, you know, I wasn't his child
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biologically, so he wanted to remind me of that. He would tell me
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all the time, I shouldn't have to pay for another man's child. You're
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a bird, and nobody loves you, you know, all these things.
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Even when I graduated from college, you know, he said, oh,
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well, that's like having a kindergarten education, you know, compared to your
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brother. And it's like, you know, I just nothing was ever good
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enough. And it's taken me a long time. I just turned forty eight,
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but you know, I'm just now realizing that, you know what,
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I'm not going to be enough for some people, and I'm going to be
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too much for other people. But my people, my tribe, I'm just
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right, you know. And I think there's a lot that comes into play
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when somebody has made you feel so lowly and because you internalize it even when
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you know it's wrong. And that's definitely what perpetuated in this relationship. In
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my first marriage was this is somebody that reminded me of that. However,
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if you would have presented me with a nice boy that treated me very well,
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I'm not sure I would have known what to do with that. So
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I think it was kind of the perfect storm. You know. Here you
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have me, I'm out in the world being a people pleaser saying I'm never
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going to let anyone mistreat me again. But I was so starved of love
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that I just wanted any crumb. Like it was kind of I always say,
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it's like a dog that is like shaking waiting for you to give you
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a little bit of off your plate of food. You know. Yeah,
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I was die the way that well, yeah, ok, you know that.
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I mean I felt that way. So I thought, Okay, well,
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he's the only person and that's even like trying to give me this attention
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that I need. And here's this narcissist to you know want is Narcissists love
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admiration and praise and services. So it literally was the perfect storm. Oh
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yeah, I mean that's what was like really heartbreaking because when you would describe
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a situation and something that was coming up, like you would like any just
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little bit of kindness you like latched onto, and then the coin would flip
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a second later and he would say something that would just cut you right like
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and you're just like, oh my god. It was yeah, and I
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could see an understanding because it's the truth, all you really wanted was somebody
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to love you and take care of you. And so you would hope,
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like just this little little sliver of hope when he was in a good mood
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or was feeling you know, a little complimentary, you would like hold on
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onto that. But what I want from you to describe because okay, so
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it's narcissistic. So a narcissistic abuse All abuse is bad. I mean,
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we're not gonna, you know, say you know, but but somebody can
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still be abusive who's not narcissistic. So what is a narsis? Yeah?
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What is? What does narcissistic abuse mean? Yeah, it's actually very simple,
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and you basically just said it. I think people get confused because of
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the word narcissistic. It's just abuse. But the problem the way, the
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reason why narcissistic abuse is kind of its own category is because you know,
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like, for example, in my childhood, I was physically abused. I
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was verbally abused, two separate types of abuses. Narcissists like to use any
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or all forms of abuse. So I mean, although he never laid his
15:56
hands on me, there was always the physical of abuse and that intimidation.
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But there was legal abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse, on top of
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verbal abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, you know, all the gas
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lighting and all the you know, any anything that they could use. I
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mean, the silent treatment is a big one that my stepmother and my ex
16:18
husband likes to use on me. And I mean that's a military war tactic
16:23
that they used in kind of obey with war hostages. You don't see that
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to your interesting or to your wife, Yeah, it's it ats theop excuse
16:33
me, thankriage. But it really messes with you when somebody looks through you
16:37
and just not speaks to you for days or weeks. Well, that's interesting
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that you said that, because that was my ex husband's level of abuse.
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He was all silent treatment. And I come from a loud Italian family,
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so yeah, we're more likely to yell than be silent. But that's what
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he would do to punish me. Now, I don't think he was a
17:00
true narcissist, but I do think he had narcissistic tent He could have narcissistic
17:06
tendencies, but I don't think he was a true narcissist in the clinical way.
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I mean, he has never diagnosed. This is just me diagnosing,
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you know what I mean, Like, I don't know, but and most
17:15
narcissists are not going to be diagnosed. Because the thing about narcissists, if
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they're a real narcissist, there's nothing wrong with them, and they will call
17:26
you every name in the book if you even insinuate that there's anything wrong with
17:30
them, particularly with their mental health. But narcissists, I mean, they
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are considered anti social and psychotic. They comprise over twenty percent of the male
17:44
prison population in this country. This is a very serious epidemic. These are
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dangerous people. And the problem with narcissistic abuse they can hurt you without giving
18:00
you basically the physical and outward evidence to get your justice. So I wasn't
18:07
walking around with black eyes or you know any you know, I didn't look
18:11
like the bride of Chucky with like crazy hair or anything like walking the streets.
18:15
So from an outward perspective, people are considering it abused. They are
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in actually, I mean you read the books. I mean I can't even
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get into the you know, everything that happened. But you know, I
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don't care if you even take the word abuse out some of the things,
18:34
A lot of the things that he did to me for he should have to
18:38
pay for, even the fact that I became physically ill with irreversible autoimmunity and
18:45
a rare lung disease that I now have to live the rest of my life
18:48
with. He could have potentially killed me without putting his hands on me.
18:52
And he's walking around, he's at the walmart and the gas station, and
18:56
people are walking by him every day not knowing about the domestic violence and the
19:02
thrust to kill me. And that's a scary thing to me because if you
19:06
look at these shows, these crime shows, like my husband and I don't
19:10
know why I love watching forty eight hours right before bed, like I don't
19:14
know what it is about murder and mysteries and you know, watching other women
19:18
like myself that didn't make it out. But most of the time, look
19:23
at the people who have committed these murders and conspired. These are all narcissists.
19:29
They're dangerous, not a dangerous. Yeah, there is the spectrum and
19:34
the way I will break it down for you real quick or for listeners.
19:38
I always describe them forgive me, but like like tumors, like you can
19:42
have up a nine tumor of the nine tumors there, but it's not bothering
19:48
you. There's you know, like there are narcissists in my life that put
19:52
selfies on Facebook, but they look as phenomenal as they think they look.
19:56
I mean, you can't hate on that. You're like, yes, I
19:59
would put pictures of myself like that too if I look like that. But
20:03
that the malignant tumors. Malignant tumors cause you issues, they might even kill
20:08
you, and you got to cut them out of your life. Those are
20:11
the narcissists that I've had the good fortune of being led to in my life.
20:17
So you know, there is definitely a spectrum, and you can have
20:21
narcissistic qualities without being an actual narcissist. It's very complex. It's a spectrum.
20:27
But I just like to warn people that if you are dealing with one
20:32
of these malignant narcissists, this is very real and you can't count the police
20:38
didn't help me. They're not always going to be there to help you.
20:41
There are people that are not going to be able to escape some of these
20:45
relationships alive. So it is something people need to be aware of. Well,
20:49
yeah, and in your book, like see the thing with the emotional
20:56
abuse is right, you can't somebody can't go to jail for like you know,
21:00
for sending you emails that say like you know, whatever they're going to
21:04
say, like threatening. You know, it gets to a point where it
21:07
has to be like a consistent level of like stalking. You have to document
21:11
everything, you have to prove it as the victim that they're doing this right.
21:17
And it's emotionally eating away at you. So it is such a level
21:21
of emotion that I'm not surprised that you have an illness that manifested because of
21:30
the stress that you lived under for twenty five twenty five years. I mean,
21:37
his his knack for gaslighting is off the charts, like oh hey,
21:45
yeah, anything that you would say to him, he would flip it and
21:52
it would be your fault. It would be And I was like, how
21:56
did she not shoot him in the back in the farm and bury him outside
22:02
with the animal. I'm laughing about this, which is like awful and cruel,
22:07
It's crazy. This is why. So the added aspect of this,
22:14
that part of what is not in the book is that this is very much
22:18
how my mother is. She is like the ultimate gaslighter, but she does
22:25
it to protect her abusive husband. So I grew up with this and then
22:30
even in my adult life while I was going through all this stuff with my
22:34
ex, my mother, Like everywhere I turn, I'm basically being told that
22:41
reality as I see it is like everybody negated what I thought. I saw
22:48
what I thought I heard. So this is why I started keeping a notebook,
22:52
and I had to keep it hidden. I hid it under the couch
22:56
cushion in the basement, and I would just write down like Okay, this
23:02
date, this time, and just give a brief two or three seconds on
23:04
whatever happened or what was said, because there were I mean, when you
23:08
have basically the three primary people in your life telling you that you're you're nuts
23:15
and you're delusional, like I know what I heard. I would love when
23:18
i'd have a witness. I'd be like, did you hear? Yeah?
23:21
Did you see that? Like because it makes your question yourself like a crazy
23:27
here, yeah exactly. And I mean I like to be self aware and
23:32
I don't want to ever be one of those people that thinks, like you
23:34
know, oh, nobody can tell me. No. I kept this notebook
23:38
so I knew what was what. So when I would be told this didn't
23:41
happen, this even what, it was just so ridiculous to me that when
23:48
it was all over, and I looked back through this notebook, you know,
23:52
I'm like, okay, so I wasn't. I mean, see,
23:56
I don't even have words because I'm getting riled up. I feel like how
24:00
I felt back then. But that's why I elaborated on the stories, and
24:03
that's what ended up becoming the book. And even when I was going through
24:07
that notebook, there were things that I don't know if they were so awful
24:11
that I put them out of my head. You know that I was like
24:15
I or maybe it just happened because it was every day, and it wasn't
24:19
just one thing a day, it was every interaction. I think I also
24:25
became like unfazed or numb to it in a sense. And plus you have
24:30
that added part of he had me so convinced that I was that I was,
24:37
you know, clinically nuts, and that I had my polar disorder,
24:41
that I go to a psychiatrist and answer all the questions correctly to get on
24:47
bipolar medication. For seventeen years, I was on two medications, and as
24:52
it turns out, this is not in the book, by the way,
24:56
this will be the sequel. But you know, when one I was out
25:00
and miraculously after cutting out my mother's stepfather and my ex husband, I'm suddenly
25:07
physically better. I have not had all these symptoms. I don't even know
25:12
the last time I've had to have my little oxygen machine. I am apparently
25:19
not even bipolar. And my psychiatrists ended up taking me off the meds altogether
25:26
a couple of years ago because he's like, I am so sorry. He's
25:30
like, you were. He's like, I had no idea you were going
25:33
through all these things, but you were having reasonable reactions to mistreatment, to
25:41
say the least. But you know, he's like, of course you're gonna
25:44
have joyous moments. You're raising your son, you're now having sons and stuff.
25:48
But then you're having these downtimes where you know, you're in fetal position,
25:52
crying in the corner because you're just just beside yourself, not knowing why
25:57
people are doing this and saying this. So he says, that's not bipolar.
26:02
That's just you were abused and you're reacting normally. So you were living
26:07
in a heightened you Yeah, you were living in a heightened sense of trauma
26:12
for so many years that it's to your body just was breaking couldn't. You
26:18
couldn't process it. But I just looked at the clock. So let's take
26:21
our break here because I have a lot more questions because I do want to
26:22
talk about well, you know, because you had a son with this person,
26:26
so that changes the whole dynamic of being in the relationship. All right,
26:30
guys, stay tuned and we'll be back in just a couple minutes.
26:32
We'll talk more about this. Stay tuned. Conscious Media for conscious Minds ome
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Life you Crave at four pm Eastern Time. I share tips on creativity,
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abundance and prosperity, and you will be introduced to the coolest guests, trailblazers,
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mystics and creatives who enrich our lives. So, okay, so let's
29:33
go back to your relationship with your ex. And I was asking you about
29:38
you want your son? So you had a child with this person. So
29:42
is that part of the reason that you decided to stay longer than you normally
29:48
would have or do you feel like it wouldn't have made a difference that your
29:52
self esteem at this point was just so beaten down that you couldn't see a
29:56
way out. No, if our sun was in the situation, I would
30:02
have been out of there. So I believe somewhere around two thousand and five,
30:07
and you divorced in twenty twenty, and you know that's the thing is
30:12
that was I somebody who wanted children. No, that was something going into
30:18
this relationship. I mean I even think very early on. I mean I
30:22
think probably within the first couple days of meeting my ex, that was something
30:27
that came up. He did not want children. He was very clear he
30:30
had no interest, no desire whatsoever, and I didn't either. But my
30:37
reasoning was more because and I'll delve into this in the prequel when that's released
30:42
next later this year, is that coming out of my home, my childhood
30:48
home. I was terrified because they always say that you turn into one of
30:52
your parents when you become a parent, and I'm like, I don't want
30:56
to be like either one of these people and do this human being. And
31:00
I was so scared. I didn't trust myself that I wouldn't. But unfortunately,
31:06
you know, you start to hit your mid twenties and everybody's getting married,
31:11
and then you start going to all the baby showers, and then the
31:12
babies start coming, and you know, I'm a girl and I'm holding everyone
31:18
else's baby, and I'm like, you know, you kind of get that
31:21
itch. So it took some convincing to get him to come on board with
31:26
it. But fortunately, and I wanted my son more than anything because you
31:30
know, and I've been you know, judged for this, but it is
31:33
what it is. But I thought that love that I so desperately wanted that
31:38
I obviously wasn't even getting in my marriage. I thought, well, I've
31:44
seen people with their children, like a mother's love what it's supposed to be
31:48
at least, and how children love their mother back when they're properly loved.
31:52
You know, that's going to be the love of my life as my child,
31:56
and we're going to have that love, you know that I'm looking so
32:00
you know, outwards for And so I convinced him to have this baby,
32:07
and we had a son, and you know, it was a very difficult
32:09
pregnancy and everything, but you know the thing about it was that he was
32:15
happy about it. My ex was to the extent that it was like when
32:21
I was pregnant, that was like it was kind of like him marking his
32:24
territory. So he felt like that was like that swollen belly was like his
32:30
claim to me or his claim of me. And and they love that.
32:36
Narcissists loved to possess what they were. So when the baby came and my
32:40
attention was on the baby and not on him, and I was too tired
32:45
or to this or that. It just that's honestly, when everything just hit
32:52
the sand. And yeah, because you have to your child, right,
32:58
Yeah, because you have a baby now, you have to take care of
33:00
a baby. So he's not the center of attention. And he acted like
33:05
very much like a toddler, very much like. Well, so for somebody
33:07
listening that is saying, am I in a relationship? Like? They know
33:13
that. You know, if you're in a relationship and it doesn't feel good,
33:16
you know that. So you know, I already know deep down if
33:19
it's toxic you can feel it because when you're in a happy relationship, you
33:22
know the difference. So what should somebody who's listening saying, well, hmm,
33:28
I wonder if my partner is a narcissist what I've been going through.
33:31
And I just want to just throw this out there. It's not that all
33:36
men, that it only happens to men. There are many women who are
33:40
Yeah, so it goes both ways. So this is for anybody listening like
33:45
to want to know what the signs are if they're in a narcissistic abusive relationship.
33:50
Yes, and I will answer this, But I am. I get
33:52
asked all the time, what are the red flags? How do I know
33:55
if I'm with a narcissist? So I'm going to say this not again,
34:00
not all narcissists are bad. There are lovely narcissists out there, you know.
34:07
It's just more like a healthy self esteem. My issue, and because
34:12
we all come from different backgrounds to different childhoods, my issue is one if
34:17
you feel unsettled with somebody, If if you are just feeling like things are
34:24
not right, they probably are. So listen to your guts number one first
34:30
and one because if I had have listened to my guts, you know,
34:32
we might not be having this. Yeah, because your the first thing you
34:37
thought was this guy was a jerk that was your first time, yeah,
34:40
and not the thing and whether he was a narcissist or not. I mean,
34:45
I meet people all the time and now I'm just like, I know
34:47
who my people are and who they're not. But my biggest issue, and
34:52
again take out the narcissist thing, if you meet somebody and they make you
35:00
feel if they are trying to control you. That's a big issue for me
35:07
because I think that if you're with somebody who loves you and accepts you for
35:10
who you are. Are you going to necessarily be perfect? No, they're
35:14
gonna you know, yeah, people are even in a perfect relationship, They're
35:17
going to be irked by something you do or some habit or some aspect of
35:22
you, but they will love you and accept you regardless. And that's the
35:29
thing. When somebody is belitting you, demeaning you, talking down to you,
35:35
insulting you, calling you nates, any anything having anything to do with
35:40
that, that is not okay because you and well everybody me, you,
35:49
we are all who we are and there is somebody that's going to love us
35:52
for exactly who we are. That we don't have to change for that.
35:57
We don't have to do this or do that or not do this or not
36:00
do that. Do we have to make sacrifices in relationships? Yes? Is
36:06
there given taking relationships? Yes, but there's a sense of whether it's healthy
36:12
and you're getting that back or if you're not. And you know, like
36:16
my husband, you know, my current husband, I'm really married to a
36:21
long time friend and I know he's known me so long. I mean I
36:27
was friends with his sister in law for sixteen years before we got married.
36:30
But you know, he knew, you know, the situation that I had
36:35
been in, and we had talked about this before, and he said that
36:38
his mother used to say, there's givers and takers in the world, you
36:43
know, and again taking, whether it's talking about narcissism or not, you
36:47
know, if somebody is just taking and taking and giving you nothing or all
36:52
they're giving you is stress and worry and doubt and feelings of you know that
36:59
you are not enough or or you're to this or that's not okay. Those
37:05
are all red flags that any of us should you know, need in any
37:09
situation. But you know, my biggest advice to people is this, We've
37:15
all been in situations where we click with somebody. It could be at work,
37:20
it could be a friend, it could hopefully be you know, a
37:22
romantic relationship, family. Even you click with some and not others, those
37:28
people you click with, those are your people. And I don't know why,
37:34
I have no clue, And we all do it in romantic situations.
37:38
We try to force these relationships that really aren't clicking. Yeah, it's because
37:46
I mean, I think I'm the only one. I'm not the only one
37:50
I should say that wants loved so badly. And I'm not saying everybody is
37:54
love starved like I was when I came out into the world out of my
37:59
childhood, But I think we all want love. We want that person and
38:01
we want the person that's in front of us to be that person so badly
38:07
that we force it, We enable, we excuse, and we tolerate when
38:10
we shouldn't. So you know, it's just about knowing what feels right and
38:15
what doesn't. Well, yeah, because you were so looking. I think
38:22
if you're if you were lucky enough to have a healthy childhood and you felt
38:27
love, you're coming out of the gate when you're ready for relationships with a
38:30
healthier self esteem, right, So you're more likely to see those red flags.
38:36
But if you're so crave for love, you're going to take anything where
38:40
anybody shows you a little bit of kindness because then you're thinking, you know,
38:45
oh, I need this so bad because I've never had this in my
38:47
life. But when I was reading your story and that you stayed as long
38:51
as that you did and what you put up with, I'm like thinking,
38:55
oh my god, she was like I can't even imagine I have My ex
39:00
was verbally had was verbally abusive, sometimes not a lot, but sometimes he
39:07
was a love He loved bomb me for years before all the abuse stuff came
39:09
out, but there was a few red flags there in the beginning, right.
39:13
So the thing is is when it got to a point, I remember
39:20
that feeling of walking on eggshells and I never ever want to be in that
39:27
situation again. And I'm thinking this woman walked like she was walking on a
39:30
landmine for twenty some odd years. Every you never knew what you were going
39:37
to get. And not only was it just from the hours in the daytime,
39:40
it could be in the middle of the night, and so you didn't
39:44
sleep. You didn't sleep sometimes and you moved to the basement you had I
39:49
mean, so so yeah, I'm pushing forward in the book. But she
39:52
eventually when you when you were when you decided that this was done. I
39:55
mean there was many years where you knew in your heart it is over.
40:00
You were staying only for your son, and you moved downstairs into the basement.
40:06
Yeah you know, and we're like propping a piece of wood so he
40:09
wouldn't come. So if you you wouldn't know if he came in to assault
40:14
you. Somehow, even if it was just I was afraid to fall asleep
40:17
because he would often and I think that's that's a very strategic way to abuse
40:23
somebody too, is get them when they're vulnerable. Well, we're all vulnerable
40:28
when we're sleeping, and oftentimes that was actually a thing, is that I
40:35
knew things would happen in the middle of the night or he would come for
40:37
me in the middle of the night. So yes, when I moved to
40:39
the basement, I put the two bike or under the knob because I was
40:44
afraid to fall asleep, because what if I didn't wake up in time.
40:46
And you have to add into that this man, you know, the things
40:50
he's texting me and emailing me. I mean I was actually you know,
40:54
even I didn't even put this in the book. There was even a friend
40:58
that I had that I would We had an agreement that I would send her
41:01
a message every morning by eight am, and that if she didn't hear from
41:06
me, she would send the police to do a wellness check. Because it
41:09
was at the point where I was afraid that he was going to, you
41:14
know, put us three in the car and say we were going somewhere,
41:16
and then we'd be one of those like murder, suicide, family things on
41:21
the news and you know, so it is a terrible thing. And you
41:24
know, I'll tell you I am still struggling. The marriage. Yeah,
41:30
well the marriage isn't over a long time, but the divorce was in twenty
41:34
twenty. I am safe now, I am out of that, but I
41:37
am still to this day, I cannot sleep at night. It takes me
41:44
be multiple aids to get more than three hours of sleep because I every little
41:52
thing, I hear, everything, I share everything. Well, I was
41:57
surprised for some reason. I just expect it happened. You were you'd been
42:00
divorced many years. And then when I see that twenty nineteen and then COVID,
42:06
I'm like, oh my god, this is a recent. She recent.
42:09
It's not that long ago that you excavated yourself. And and this is
42:15
really important. When you were done, he could sense it, and his
42:21
behavior escalated, even though you were still living on the same property. He
42:27
moved into the guest house or whatever. You guys were still living in the
42:29
same or he escalated his behavior and it was becoming more dangerous. And then
42:35
it was becoming more violent. And that's it's when it gets really scary because
42:39
she was done. She's like, I'm done, I'm out of here.
42:42
And he knew it. He did. He pulled everything he could try to
42:45
do to all the tricks and using your son against you too, which was
42:49
horrible. Which is horrible, by the way, how is your son how
42:52
because it's not that long ago for him, how's doing? It's not But
42:55
he is amazing. And I mean, you know, I was afraid because
43:01
when he was you probably read that in the book. What was he thirteen
43:05
or fourteen? He actually out of nowhere, had said to me, please
43:09
don't divorce Dad until you know, I'm done with high school and I leave
43:14
for college, because he said, Dad's going to make life a living hell
43:19
and I don't want to be here for it. And I just at that
43:22
point, he was going into his senior year in high school, and I
43:25
just was like, I'm sorry, I just can't. I cannot do this
43:30
anymore. But yeah, he is doing very well. He did go to
43:34
Wyoming, he planned as has talked about in the book, and he graduated
43:42
and had several job offers and so he got the job he really wanted.
43:45
And he makes way too much money for his age. But he bought it
43:50
her nineteen years old, and he drives a Hurley and has you know,
43:55
he's living a good life, and you know, is he a f of
44:00
course, yeah, I'm sure he is, but he doesn't appear to be,
44:07
you know, too affected. So I leave it. Does he have
44:10
a relationship with his father? Does he have one or did he cut?
44:16
He does? Yeah, because I mean it is his father, and that's
44:20
the thing. It's father, and that is the thing. And I don't
44:24
I don't speak to that just because you know, one of the things.
44:30
It's kind of like, be careful what you wish for. When I was
44:34
raising him, I was so scared because I don't really have much family,
44:37
and I knew with the divorce, especially I lost you know, my ex
44:45
basically you know, just completely destroyed any relationship or the possibility of it with
44:52
his family. But he also interfered with my family, and so I've been
44:57
kind of like shunned everywhere I turn. I do have still some family members
45:01
that speak to me, but you know, very little. And I was
45:07
always afraid that if something happened to me, who who's who's my son going
45:10
to have? You know, So of course I always really impressed upon him
45:15
how important it is to have family and to be forgiving and all these things
45:20
I couldn't be, but he is that way. He is very close with
45:23
his you know, with my mother and stepfather because you know, it's something
45:29
that I can understand. They were only abusive towards me for certain reasons,
45:34
which will be revealed in the prequel. You know that have I didn't do
45:38
anything by the way I should just well, he's but it was the premise
45:44
of my birth. But you know, your son is a young adult now,
45:49
so he'll figure things out and for himself, and he'll navigate what's healthy
45:52
for him and what's not right. So you're allowing him space to figure that
45:57
out. Yeah, well, and that's what that you you know, that
46:01
is important as a parent to do that, to give the respect and you'll
46:07
get it back. Well. Yeah, and a lot of parents, because
46:09
the other parent treats you terrible, will make a mistake of, you know,
46:15
trying to get the child on yours the other parent, and everybody knows
46:22
that that's just psychologically damaging to the child. The child will have to like
46:25
learn I mean obviously unless he was beating your son or something and you had
46:30
to keep him away for his you know, his his life or something,
46:35
right, That's what I'm saying. So, yeah, you have to know.
46:38
So for anyone who's listening and wants to excavate themself from an abusive relation,
46:47
let's just say abusive. It doesn't narcissist or not narcissist, abusive,
46:52
What would you recommend they do? Because you started taking some systematic steps when
46:58
you made the decision that you were going to you you put a plan in
47:01
place. I did, and you know, I'm going to say this so
47:07
is that I think the biggest fear people have, particularly women when their mothers
47:14
and and maybe they haven't been in the workforce because a lot of time,
47:19
you know, whether they're narcissists or not, abusers tend to isolate their victims
47:23
in some way. They fear that they will not be able to provide for
47:29
their children with shelter, food, you know, clothing, I assume everybody.
47:34
But there are resources out there. I think people just aren't aware of
47:37
them because they are so isolated. Like even I didn't even have a smartphone
47:43
until after my divorce because my accident, like me being on internet, being
47:47
on you know, you know, like me reading books. I couldn't have
47:51
friends. It was just ridiculous. So yeah, I couldn't have outside influence.
47:55
Had I known that nobody would have let my son and I of you
48:00
know, out on the streets and that we would be clothed, fed and
48:05
sheltered, I would have probably been out of there a lot earlier, whether
48:08
my kid liked it or not. But what I will say is that,
48:13
I, like all other you know, people in the same situation, thought
48:16
I needed to be able to provide for us. So I started stocking away
48:22
for about fifteen years. Unfortunately, but I started stocking away, you know,
48:27
and Grandma sends you twenty bucks for your birthday, or you gets you
48:30
know, a pip at work or a bonus or whatever. I was just
48:35
stocking money away. I hid some in an annuity you know, that was
48:39
getting more interest than a savings account. I definitely made sure life insurances,
48:47
any kind of policies that had beneficiaries, including just even just regular bank accounts.
48:54
I made sure my son was the beneficiary and assigned a guardian because I
48:59
didn't want this guy having access to anything any part of my money. Yes,
49:07
it's stuff people don't think about because a lot of the times when there
49:12
is a death as a result of a situation like this, it's you know,
49:15
they like narcissists, love their money. So the thing is just it
49:22
sounds terrible, but it's basically one protecting yourself, making sure they don't have
49:28
access to anything that will drain you financially, and number two, making sure
49:34
you have something to fall back on. So by the time that you know,
49:38
I was done, I let's just say I had plenty, that I
49:45
was able to write a check in full for my son's education post high school,
49:51
and that you know, we were able to you know, move on,
49:54
and we had the house. I was able to comfortably live in the
49:59
house and give myself that stability of being in his child home, and you
50:04
know, provide for us every other way. And I didn't have to take
50:07
loans, I didn't have to do anything on credits. I didn't have to.
50:12
But but if it comes down to it, I would tell somebody,
50:16
apply for the credit cards up to do whatever you have to do, Do
50:20
whatever you have to do to make sure that if you have to, if
50:23
you have an if you are so unsafe that you are that scared to leave,
50:29
you want to be able to pick up and go at that opportunity,
50:36
leave all the stuff behind. And even in my divorce, I had said,
50:40
all I want is my kid. I don't care about the car and
50:45
the house and the money and all the stuff, and all these attorneys were
50:49
like, but you're entitled. I don't care. I want to be done.
50:52
I can make more money, I can replace the things I can't replace
50:59
me in my on. I just want out. So with that mentality in
51:04
mind, the one thing that I did do also that I recommend everybody you
51:07
can go to Walmart for fifty dollars by one of these little states that's fireproof
51:15
and waterproof that you can literally pick up by the handle and carry. It's
51:21
like the size of a nice little purse. Yeah, but put all your
51:24
documents in their social Security cards, birth certificate's anything pertinent. And that's where
51:30
I socked all my little extra money away, and I had it hidden.
51:35
But I would move the hiding spot once in a while, just in case,
51:38
because I just didn't trust him. So that way, again, if
51:44
there's an opportunity to get out, you can just grab and go and everything
51:49
you need will be in there. Wow. Yeah, I never would have
51:53
even thought of that. I'm glad you said that, and I wanted to
51:55
ask because I know you eventually trust people to let them know what was going
52:01
on, but for many years you kept the shame hidden. So would you
52:07
tell somebody who's listening to talk to somebody about what's going on with them,
52:12
Like, have somebody that they can, you know, reveal what's happening.
52:15
Because I know, a lot of especially women, you know, we feel
52:19
this shame like we're you know, like we're allowing it to happen, not
52:22
realizing it's like so systematic, and you don't even you don't even know you're
52:27
being like worn down, right, and then you become so ashamed, like
52:30
how could I allow myself to go through this? Right? So then you
52:32
don't tell anybody, and that's kind of that's where it's really dangerous. So
52:38
would you tell somebody to reach out to somebody that they trust very early on?
52:43
Because I know you did it. It took you a little while when
52:45
people kind of saw like what's going on with you? You know, you're
52:50
lost a lot way you look like, you know, like what is happening
52:53
in your life? You know, that's the hard part about it. And
52:58
I don't I mean there is. There's a lot of shame in it because
53:01
I know that there was, you know, along the way, there were
53:05
people here and there. Like I remember when my son was maybe a year
53:09
or two old, I had somebody that I just an acquaintance. She obviously
53:15
sent something and she's like, well, you know, we need to get
53:19
it, so you're stronger, if you were stronger, and I'm like,
53:22
I remember looking at her and saying, I'm not weak. It's to do
53:27
what I do every day takes an amount of strength that most women don't have.
53:32
So don't call me weak. But I think a lot of it is
53:37
just fear. I think everything comes back to fear because the other part of
53:42
this narcissist will commonly, well any of you there will commonly create a narrative
53:47
outside of the home. I mean to their family, your family, and
53:52
the community, at the kids' school, even I had that happen in the
53:58
church, you know whatever. Wherever you go, they have told people that
54:01
you're crazy, you're unstable, you're an unfit mother, you're you know,
54:07
all these things. So people have an idea about you because they know that
54:10
eventually you're going to crack and you're going to say something to somebody. They
54:15
don't want people to believe you because you know, I go back to my
54:20
Chucky reference, which I go to all the time. But people think like
54:22
we're talking about this person, like they're running around on the streets like in
54:27
the striped sweater with a butcher knife, and they're not. These are people
54:30
who are very funny and charming. They're scharitable, they're generous, they're coaching
54:36
your kids teaball team. And you know, nobody would ever believe it.
54:42
And even since, you know, even since my book came out, I
54:45
had somebody that actually came out and said, oh, I can't believe you
54:50
would do that to him, do this? Yeah, well that's why narcist.
54:58
They're very good at it. They are very charming, they're very charming,
55:01
and they hook people in and people don't want to believe it because how
55:06
can we look at him? Everybody loves him, right, that's the thing.
55:09
Everybody loves her. Yeah, but that's not the truth. Well,
55:14
just we only have him, Yeah, we only have a minute. Can
55:17
you believe it? So just share what you like, what you want to
55:21
wrap up with, because before I don't want to have to cut you off.
55:23
No, worries. So I'm going to wrap it up real quick,
55:27
so I'm going to answer that if anyone is in the situation. The one
55:30
thing I learned the very hard way after three court appearances and having police involved,
55:37
you have to have a record, So you have to have get some
55:39
bleak cameras on your house, call the police. You can even make a
55:44
report without the police coming to your home. But just please make sure there
55:49
is a record because that's the best way to protect yourself and to get some
55:52
justice. And if people want to know where they can get your book,
55:57
how can they Where can they find it? If they want to reach out
56:00
to you because they're going through something, Is there a place that somebody can
56:04
reach out to you. Yes, I always just help people. Go to
56:07
the website data sds dot com. My links for Facebook and Instagram are on
56:12
there. You can message me directly on either one of those platforms. You
56:15
can also email me from the website. Click on the links to buy the
56:20
book from the website. This interview and you know whatever others that have been
56:24
released are also on the website, so you know, I try to provide
56:28
as many resources as I can for people. Thank you so much. Dana
56:34
was really, really an enlightening conversation. I really appreciate you being here with
56:37
me today. Yeah, please check her out and thank you everyone for listening
56:43
to Postcards to the Universe with Melissa creating life you crave and I'm wishing everyone
56:46
a wonderful year filled with joy, abundance and love. Peace,