Latest / Wake Up with Marci / The Truth about Addiction: Dr. Adi Jaffe on healing honesty and hope

Transcript

The Truth about Addiction: Dr. Adi Jaffe on healing honesty and hope · Wake Up with Marci

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to Wake Up with Marcy, a deep dive into
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  Speaker 1: self discovery. I'm your host, Marsey Hopkins, and this is
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  Speaker 1: the space where we get real about life transformation and
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  Speaker 1: finding our true selves. Welcome back to wake Up with Marcy,
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  Speaker 1: where real conversations spark real transformation. I'm your host, Marsey Hopkins,
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  Speaker 1: and today we're diving deep into healing, self discovery and
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  Speaker 1: breaking free from the labels in shame that so many
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  Speaker 1: of us carry. Joining me is doctor Addie Jaffey, a
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  Speaker 1: world renowned expert on addiction, mental health, and relationships. Once
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  Speaker 1: facing addiction in prison time, doctor Jeffy completely transformed his life.
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  Speaker 1: He went on to earn his PhD from UCLA, founded
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  Speaker 1: Ignited Recovery, and is the author of the best selling
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  Speaker 1: book Unhooked for Yourself from Addiction Forever. He's made it
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  Speaker 1: his life's mission to destigmati addiction and educate not only
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  Speaker 1: those suffering, but also their families. Whether you're personally facing challenges,
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  Speaker 1: supporting a loved one, or simply on your own journey
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  Speaker 1: of wellness and self discovery, today's conversation will bring hope, perspective,
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  Speaker 1: and practical tools that you can use.
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  Speaker 2: So let's dive in. Welcome to the show, doctor Addie.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Marcie.
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  Speaker 1: All right, so you came from a good background, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and then you got into some trouble and you literally
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  Speaker 1: had a swat team break down your door.
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  Speaker 2: So why didn't you take us back to Yeah? Why
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  Speaker 2: what happened? How did you get yourself there?
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  Speaker 1: Because people think that you come from a really bad background,
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  Speaker 1: that's why you're going to start having these problems.
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  Speaker 2: With alcohol or drugs or such. And that was not
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  Speaker 2: your case.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and exactly.
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  Speaker 4: And even if you come from a better family, I'll say,
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  Speaker 4: but you know better, I'll put in air quotes.
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  Speaker 3: But they expect that there must.
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  Speaker 4: Have been, you know, abuse, there must have been something
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  Speaker 4: really terrible under the surface, and there wasn't in my family.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, look, my mom and my dad almost got divorced.
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  Speaker 4: My dad left for a little bit.
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  Speaker 3: You know. That was probably that.
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  Speaker 4: And the big move from I was born in Israel,
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  Speaker 4: the big move from Israel to the United States were
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  Speaker 4: probably the two most traumatic things in my life. But
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  Speaker 4: the bottom line is between personality and taking things really
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  Speaker 4: really really internalizing my own lack of what I would
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  Speaker 4: call perfectionism and adequacy in my own mind, my dad
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  Speaker 4: being a really high achiever and setting really high standards
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  Speaker 4: that I felt like I was failing at regularly. But
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  Speaker 4: then also, as I mentioned, a move, we had a
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  Speaker 4: big move right into high school from Israel to the US,
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  Speaker 4: totally different culture. I spoke the language and not well,
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  Speaker 4: you know, there were things of that nature. But what
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  Speaker 4: I talk about, and I think this is important in
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  Speaker 4: the context of the book, is people think addiction is
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  Speaker 4: this disease that you have a genetic predisposition for that,
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  Speaker 4: you know, because so it runs in your family or
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  Speaker 4: you you have a proclivity to fall into it from
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  Speaker 4: an early age. What I found, having worked with thousands
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  Speaker 4: of people at this point, is there are definitely streams
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  Speaker 4: of connectivity. There are connected you know, themes between people
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  Speaker 4: who struggle with addiction, but they're actually primarily more about
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  Speaker 4: the internal struggle, the strife, the lack of adequacy, feeling
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  Speaker 4: less than judging yourself against others than they really are
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  Speaker 4: about the background.
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  Speaker 3: And I think that's important for people to hear.
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  Speaker 4: That's why wealthy families mid you know, you know, kind
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  Speaker 4: of like upper middle class, middle class families, and people
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  Speaker 4: that come from abject poverty can all struggle with the
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  Speaker 4: same issue. Is because the drugs the behavior is used
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  Speaker 4: to cope. In my situation, it was primarily used to
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  Speaker 4: cope with social anxiety and again, low feelings of self worth.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, so what happened when that's what team came in?
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  Speaker 2: Like, why did that happen? And what was going through
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  Speaker 2: your head?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah? I opened the book with the story of how
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  Speaker 4: the SWAT team came in, and so I won't belabor
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  Speaker 4: the point of the actual experience, but you know, the
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  Speaker 4: short of it is, I was a little disenfranchised from
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  Speaker 4: the culture and the family that I grew up in,
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  Speaker 4: and that was self inflicted, right, that wasn't by their doing.
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  Speaker 4: I felt like I didn't belong so I literally moved
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  Speaker 4: to the other side of the country. My family was
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  Speaker 4: in New York, upstate New York, and I moved out
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  Speaker 4: to California.
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  Speaker 3: So I was separated.
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  Speaker 4: I was isolated from them, and in that context, my
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  Speaker 4: drug use escalated and escalated unchecked. It went from smoking
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  Speaker 4: weed and drinking like the vast majority of kids in
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  Speaker 4: high school, into harder drugs after a breakup and depression,
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  Speaker 4: and it got to meth. The last five six years
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  Speaker 4: of my youth were pretty heavily involved in meth. I
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  Speaker 4: was using a lot of drugs that cost a lot
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  Speaker 4: of money. I didn't have money to use them many
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  Speaker 4: of the drugs, so I started selling the drugs. And
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  Speaker 4: I actually four total arrests.
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  Speaker 3: That swat team arrest was just the last one, and
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  Speaker 3: they escalated right.
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  Speaker 4: It was like a traffic stop where I ended up
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  Speaker 4: spending a night in jail, then another stop with more
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  Speaker 4: drugs where I spent a weekend in jail. This time,
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  Speaker 4: what ended up happening is somebody must.
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  Speaker 3: Have given my name.
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  Speaker 4: I ended up getting in a car accident and a
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  Speaker 4: motorcycle accident actually and broke my leg.
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  Speaker 3: But they also found a half a.
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  Speaker 4: Pound of cocaine on me in that accident, and that
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  Speaker 4: told them I was more than just a user. For
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  Speaker 4: three months or so, they tried to get me to
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  Speaker 4: give them other names. I wouldn't do it, so eight
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  Speaker 4: o'clock in the morning they paid me the courtesy of
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  Speaker 4: that swat team arrest.
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  Speaker 3: You asked what was I thinking.
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  Speaker 4: At the time, and really, honestly, the main thing that
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  Speaker 4: I was thinking is I was pretty sure my way
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  Speaker 4: of living up until that.
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  Speaker 3: Point was done.
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  Speaker 4: I had no idea what that meant, because I didn't
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  Speaker 4: know any other way to live.
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  Speaker 3: But it was very clear.
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  Speaker 4: It's kind of like the universe, God, whatever you want,
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  Speaker 4: kept sending me these signals. Yep, you can't keep doing
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  Speaker 4: what you're doing right, little arrest, bigger, broke your leg
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  Speaker 4: in a wheelchair. Now the Swath team is in your house.
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  Speaker 4: It was all moving in one very clear direction. So
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  Speaker 4: I knew I had to do something. Still no idea
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  Speaker 4: what that was, but I knew I could change.
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  Speaker 1: So there's a couple of things I want to unpack here.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, I'm almost ten years sober, and I
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  Speaker 1: like what you're saying. The universe kept giving you these
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  Speaker 1: potential stopgates, like hey, maybe you want to like stop
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  Speaker 1: what you're doing right and rethink. But I needed a
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  Speaker 1: major consequence, and for me, that ended up being a
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  Speaker 1: dui and almost losing my family, but understanding that I
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  Speaker 1: did have addiction to my family, but I was coping.
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  Speaker 1: I was coping with a lot of difficulty from my past.
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  Speaker 1: So you knew that you needed to make a change,
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  Speaker 1: And so how did that change start for you? And
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  Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of people out there that
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  Speaker 1: maybe they're not going through the same things that we've
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  Speaker 1: gone through, but they're recognizing, like, this is not beneficial
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  Speaker 1: to my life, right, there's maybe some difficulties in the
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  Speaker 1: relationships or work. So how can we start shifting and
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  Speaker 1: thinking in a way that, Okay, I need to make
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  Speaker 1: this change and I don't want something terrible to happen
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  Speaker 1: in my life. So what can we start doing? How
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  Speaker 1: can we start looking at this?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know I write in the book that that
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  Speaker 4: back against the.
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  Speaker 3: Wall moment for you is the UI. For me, it
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  Speaker 3: was a swat team arrest.
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  Speaker 4: Are oftentimes the things that help us understand that there's
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  Speaker 4: got to be a new path forward because we can't
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  Speaker 4: head back our literally our backs against the wall, right,
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  Speaker 4: we're stuck. What that is There's a lot of leeway around.
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  Speaker 3: Right, So it doesn't have to be catastrophic, but.
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  Speaker 4: It does have to be a moment where you are
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  Speaker 4: willing to consider that maybe the perception perspective you have
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  Speaker 4: in the world I talk about that that's a whole
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  Speaker 4: chapter in the book is wrong and you need to
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  Speaker 4: allow a new perspective. So I'll give you my version
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  Speaker 4: really quickly.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 4: So for me, I got arrested, I had a gun
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  Speaker 4: next to me and everything like that. So I had
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  Speaker 4: almost a million dollar bail. I was put in jail
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  Speaker 4: because of my broken leg. They put me in the
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  Speaker 4: hospital ward of the jail. It was decrepit and dirty,
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  Speaker 4: and you know people that had jumped out of windows
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  Speaker 4: and broken ankles and people that got shot at. We
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: were all in one big cell and I was coming
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  Speaker 4: off of drug. So I actually slept for almost that
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  Speaker 4: whole week, waking up to eat, sleeping on and off.
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  Speaker 4: I waited about a week to get out because my
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  Speaker 4: bill was so high. I didn't even want my family
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  Speaker 4: to post it. I wanted to go in front of court.
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  Speaker 4: So once I was done with that five days somewhat detox,
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  Speaker 4: my lawyer said to me said, look, if you show
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  Speaker 4: up like this to court, you keep showing up like this,
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  Speaker 4: you're gonna end up doing ten, fifteen, twenty years in prison.
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  Speaker 4: We'll fight the case, but the way you look and
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  Speaker 4: with what they just found at your house, you're gonna
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  Speaker 4: go away for a long time. I need you to
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  Speaker 4: go to rehab and clean up, because if you don't
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  Speaker 4: clean up, we're going to have a losing case. So
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: what my lawyer was so genius at and I think
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  Speaker 4: I actually talked about this directly in the book. Is
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  Speaker 4: He didn't tell me, Look, you're addicted to drugs. Your
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  Speaker 4: life's going to go nowhere. You really need to do
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  Speaker 4: something about this. He took something I cared about. I
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  Speaker 4: wanted to fight this case. I didn't want to spend
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  Speaker 4: fifteen to twenty years in prison. He said, if you
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  Speaker 4: don't want that, you got to do this. Oftentimes we
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  Speaker 4: forget because we see people drinking, we see them using drugs,
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  Speaker 4: we see them engaging behavior that is.
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  Speaker 3: Not helpful for them.
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  Speaker 4: We see the outcome, we know where we think they
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  Speaker 4: need to go, and we want to move them in
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  Speaker 4: that direction. We want to say, look, you're drinking too much.
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  Speaker 4: Stop drinking. Your life will get better. But that's not
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  Speaker 4: the way they understand it. That's not the way they
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  Speaker 4: see it. They wake up full of anxiety, fear, self doubting,
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  Speaker 4: levels of stress, shame exactly. And so the drinking actually
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  Speaker 4: helps them. And you're looking at them saying, hey, if
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  Speaker 4: you stop taking your medicine, everything will get better.
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  Speaker 3: They say, you're crazy. You don't understand me.
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  Speaker 4: He targeted the part that he knew.
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  Speaker 3: I cared about.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't want to spend fifteen twenty years in prison.
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  Speaker 4: He targeted that well, because I'm sure Marci, before you
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  Speaker 4: got that DUI, you knew things weren't You weren't firing
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  Speaker 4: on all cylinders.
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  Speaker 3: You knew things weren't working.
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  Speaker 4: Well, it's just you weren't in a place where giving
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  Speaker 4: up drinking was the Anglararifi.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all I knew, and I was very much
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  Speaker 1: a victim, and I didn't know how to not drink,
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  Speaker 1: and I was putting everything off on my husband just
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  Speaker 1: basically like you don't.
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  Speaker 2: Know how to have fun.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, so even though I knew that things
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  Speaker 1: weren't good, and I came from an alcoholic mother and
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  Speaker 1: I knew what it looked like, but I kept comparing
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  Speaker 1: myself and I wasn't passing out every night, So you
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  Speaker 1: know that that kept me continuing and on this path
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  Speaker 1: even though you know what your gut you've been you
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: think about it for quite some time.
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  Speaker 4: And oftentimes decades. Yeah, yeah, long time.
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  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. And you know, for women, it's really really
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  Speaker 1: hard because we have where the caretakers. We're afraid to
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: admit that. There's so much shame around it right to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: admit that we have a problem. We think our husband's
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  Speaker 1: going to leave us, the kids are gonna they're going
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: to take the kids. That everyone in the community or
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: wherever we are, whatever we're doing in life, we're going
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: to be judged.
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  Speaker 2: How do we if we are working and we're moms, Like,
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  Speaker 2: how how do we get sober? How do we take
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: care of ourselves?
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  Speaker 3: Like?
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  Speaker 2: I don't know it. It just feels a lot a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Of times that that women struggle more because of the
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  Speaker 1: shame around it, and we don't feel that we can
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  Speaker 1: leave our situation if in fact we needed to go
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: two rehab.
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  Speaker 4: Right, So for men, it might be I've got to
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  Speaker 4: keep showing up to my job. I've got to keep
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: doing keeping a roof over the family's head. You're saying,
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  Speaker 4: for women, it's the parenting, the taking care of the household,
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  Speaker 4: et cetera, is oftentimes such a big undertaking.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Look, I mean, here's the interesting thing. There are a
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  Speaker 4: ton of reasons. I mean, I talk about this again
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: in the book. There are a lot of logistical reasons
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: why getting help is hard. That's actually the good news,
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: and why if you seek help sooner, the help is
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: easier to get and it takes less time.
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  Speaker 1: You know.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: The only reason some people end up having to go
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: to rehab is because they've been struggling for fifteen years
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: and they literally can't not drink for a day, so
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: they need a place for twenty thirty sixty days to
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: just rebalance. If you can handle this ten years earlier,
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  Speaker 4: you probably don't need a rehab, right, Just some therapy,
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  Speaker 4: reading a book, doing some groups will probably be enough
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: for you. And I think that's a big part of
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: the message for me in the book is if we
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: remove the stigma in the shame around you struggle with alcohol,
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: being you are an alcoholic earlier on in the process,
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: if some of us just sat down and said, wait,
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: why am I drinking every day when I get back
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: from work? Oh, let me break it down. It's because
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: of a B and C. Okay, Well, that I can
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: do something about that. I can figure out a way
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: to reduce my stress at work. I can go to
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: couple's therapy with my wife. Right, how many people do
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  Speaker 4: you know who drink heavily because they're in an unhappy marriage. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: and when they get home they have to sit next
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  Speaker 4: to a stranger or somebody who even is worse than
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: a stranger, right, is making them feel badly about themselves,
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: and in order to do that, they just have a
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: couple of drinks so that they don't care as much. Well,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: it doesn't seem like that big of a deal early on,
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: because it does help you get along better ten to
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  Speaker 4: fifteen years later, You've now been in a bad relationship
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  Speaker 4: for fifteen years with no help. The drinking certainly didn't
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: make the relationship better, and now you need to drink
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: more in order to deal with your marriage. So the
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: issues are always there at the outset.
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  Speaker 2: Well. And I'll also say that.
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  Speaker 1: Because I was so wounded from my past and then
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I was drinking a lot, my relationship was really bad
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: because of my drinking and the way that I was
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: responding and reacting to life. And I will say that
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: we have ten years later. I mean, I never thought
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: about growing old with him because I didn't know what
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: that looked like. And today we have the best relationship possible.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: So I am so grateful for recovery and then the
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: healing that comes after it. Right, it's not just about
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: putting down the drink. It's all the things that you're
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: talking about that we need to heal from and building
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: on that confidence and self love and self awareness. And
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: so let's talk about, Well, you have your program that
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: you've created and you talk about, you know, getting really
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: radically honest, and I love that.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: So what do you offer through your recovery model?
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: So in the book, I I kind of split up
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: the book into two parts. One the one that explains
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: why we struggle the way we struggle. The second one
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: I really wanted to give tangible steps for people to
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: follow in order to move forward. So a big part
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: of it is something I call the sparrow loop, and
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: that is something that I just want people to.
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  Speaker 2: The sparrow loop.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, s P A r O so stimulus, perception, activation,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: response outcome. And I'll explain why all those stages in
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: a second. But the idea was, you know, people are
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: so scared of things they don't understand. So even when
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: we're in the throes of drinking or drug use or
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: any addictive behavior, eating, binge, eating, everybody, wait, you know this,
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: everybody wakes up in the morning saying today, I'm I'm
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: gonna go beat it today to ourselves. Today, I don't
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: need this right, I'm gonna beat my addiction.
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  Speaker 3: Today. Today, I'm not going to drink today, I'm not
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  Speaker 3: going to use drugs today.
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  Speaker 4: I'm not going to look at porn today, I'm not
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  Speaker 4: going to eat a box of pizza.
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  Speaker 3: Whatever it is.
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  Speaker 4: And then by nine am noon, three pm, seven pm midnight,
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: whatever it is for.
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  Speaker 3: You, you're back in it again. If we don't.
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  Speaker 4: Understand why we're doing what we're doing, it's even more terrifying, right,
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  Speaker 4: more shame. So the first thing is to just explain
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: to ourselves.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Why we do things.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: Stimulus is a thing that sets the behavior in motion.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: Perception is the way in which you process the stimulus.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: I'll explain more about that.
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: Once you process the stimulus a certain way and it
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: creates an activation physiologically and psychologically, you have feelings somatic
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: like in your body or cognitive in your head. Those
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: feelings are the things you're trying to deal with through
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: the response. The response for any of us is the overeating,
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: the drinking, and the stuff.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Right, the behavior that we're in trouble with.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: You drink, you overeat, you binge, you start really feeling
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: really sick, or you drink until you black out.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: That's the outcome.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: Most people don't come for anything, but the outcome, they
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: just come because crap happened that they are unhappy with,
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: and they want to dui for you and arrest for me.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: A blackout when you ended up waking up with somebody
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: you didn't know in bed next to you, whatever, you know,
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: using porn so much that your wife found it and
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: is now mad.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: At you and is threatening divorce.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Whatever it is, the outcome is what people care about.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: But because the behavior came right before the outcome. You drank,
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: you blacked out, you overate, you threw up, you use
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: some meth and got arrested, we think the thing to
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: focus on is the behavior. But what I explained is
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: if you remove the behavior, all the coping that came before,
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: it still needs a place to go and you now
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: have no way of dealing with it. And so that's
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: why we get caught in the cycle. You stop drinking,
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: but then the stress and the anxiety build up. Well,
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: you don't have new coping strategies to deal with it,
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: so you at some point you say, well forget about it,
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: I'm going to go back to having a drink. And
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: that cycle is why so many of us fail.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: So number one is just explain what it is that
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: that that.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: Goes on for all of you and then the next piece,
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: and that's I call it eat, the explore, ex transform cycle.
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: Once that outcome happens, a lot of people in our situation.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Get really afraid of failure.
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: And I think that that's explained by what we talked
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: about earlier, right, self judgment, deprecation, feeling less than. It's
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: such a big part of the problem that when you fail,
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: you get the blackout, the dui that you throw up,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: whatever it is, you feel once again like your self.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Image has been reinforced.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: But one thing that I've learned now being in this
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: field fifteen sixteen years is those failures are actually opportunities.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: When things don't work out the way you want them to,
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: it's the.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Time to stop.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: Understand why that's explore, sit with it, and accept it.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: That's sitting with discomfort, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, understanding you're
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: not perfect, but you're also not broken, right, You're just
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: you're human, and so acceptance, explore, accept, and then once
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: you've finished that acceptance piece, transform. Okay, drinking doesn't lead
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: to the outcomes I want. When I feel anxious in stress,
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: I need something else. But I don't know what that is.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Transformation is about going out there and seeking it. So
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: I call it like a scavenger hunt. What can deliver
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: the outcome that I want? And so it's this loop
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: that I have people go through, and every time it
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: works out that we want too, we celebrate. Right, you
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: had a sober night, you did well, you drank the
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: two drinks you wanted to. But every time it goes
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: off the rails, it's time to get to work. And
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: that's different than what most of us do, which is
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: every time things go off the rails, we try to
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: sweep it under the rug, move forward, put on a
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: you know, stiff upper lip, smile through it, and.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Try to get to the other side.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: So that's the overarching idea behind the book is understand
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: why you act the way you act, accept what got
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: you to this place, but then go change it.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, like for me, I mean I have well,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I have a huge toolbox, and then for me, a
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: lot of it was gratitude, forgiveness and shifting my.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Energy from you know, like living in attitude is a
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: way of being a magnet to a beautiful life.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Right, every person listening to this right now, if they're
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: looking for their own path. You'll discover your own toolbox.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: There are things that have worked for many many people.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: Gratitude is one of the things I bring to most
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: of my clients right off the bat.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: Because it's super easy to do. You can get it
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: done in five minutes a day.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: And you know, the irony is most of my clients,
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: if I ask them for three things they're grateful for,
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: they'll sit there and think.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: For a little while. Whereas once you've.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: Been in once you've been in practice at this. I've
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: been doing this for about let's say a decade now, Yeah,
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: there are thousands of things I can.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Be Yeah, people have people think it's got to be
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: something big. It's like the car in the driveway or
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: the house you're living in.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: It's not about that, right.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Clean water, a roof over your head, clean air, to
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: be shoes that fit you. I mean, you know you breathe,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: you're breathing right now, right, Yeah, I mean, like, the
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: number of things you have to be grateful for or
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: you can be grateful for is nearly endless. And the
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: good news, as you just point out, and this is
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: just one tool we're talking about right now. It reformulates
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: the way you look at the world, because once you start,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I call it, it's like these flags of gratitude that
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: pop up all over the world as you walk around.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: And that's the real benefit.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: All Right, somebody's sitting there and they're listening and they're like, God,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: my life right now. I mean, I don't know how
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I can look at anything and be grateful.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to have my next drink.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Or whatever it is. Where are they turning? What is
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: a first step they can make? And then tell us
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: a bit about your book, because unhooked, I mean.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: That there's an answer for you.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, So first of all, start small, number one.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Start small. Too many people they try to hit it
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: out the park, right off the boat. Right.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: So, if you've been drinking for fifteen years, first of all,
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: it could be literally medically dangerous or you to just
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: stop drinking without medical supervision. So don't get some support.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: And that's support sounds dangerous or risky for a lot
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: of people because normally support only came when we screwed up.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: Support only came when we failed and other people made
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: us accountable. The kind of accountability I'm talking about is different.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: It's reaching out to people that you trust and love
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: and say, Okay, I don't want to live this way anymore.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: I'm willing to start considering some change. Let's start working.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: So that's number one. Find a comfortable environment to do
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: that in a lot of people try to do it alone.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Shame is a huge player in that.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: I say, just find it doesn't matter what group, it
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: doesn't matter who is part of that.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Find a group of people. You can do it.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: It helps a ton to be able to do that.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: And then a couple of quick tips from the book.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: Number one, this is hard, but you want the fastest route,
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: stop lying, stop lying to yourself, and stop lying to
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: other people. Radical transparency will be really, really uncomfortable for
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: a short period of time. It will be your quickest
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: path to get where you're going. And that brings me
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: to the second part of this, which is in order
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: to get better in life, and I'm not talking about recovery,
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: I'm talking about life in general. You have to get
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: comfortable being uncomfortable, and that is something you have to
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: train yourself in because, and I'm no judgment I did
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: this for fifteen years of my own life. One of
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: the reasons we use so much is to escape discomfort.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: Escaping discomfort is the most sure way to bring destruction
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: into your life. You have to get comfortable being uncomfortable.
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: So those are kind of the big pieces. Stop lying,
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: get some accountability and support with a group of people.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: It could just be one person for now that you
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: trust and has your best interest at heart, and then
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: start getting comfortable being uncomfortable. You mentioned the book, and
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: on our last couple of minutes here I have a
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: website called read unhooked dot com. You can look at
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: a bunch of little pieces there when you buy the book.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: We also have resources.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: On the web page in order to support you with
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: additional work on top of the book. But this book
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: is my way of trying to give people something really,
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: really actionable. And we've heard from a lot of the
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: readers saying, the first half got me to understand why
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: I'm struggling. The second half gave me the actual tools
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: to do something about it.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: And that's it, right, And this is what you talk
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: about getting educated, right. We need to be educated those
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: that are involved. I mean, it's a family sickness, so
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: we all need to get educated, and we all play
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: different roles, and then we need to use the tools.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: We need to learn them and use them.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: I always got to use the tool right. Just learning
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: about the tools is not going to help you all
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: that much.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: You've got to take the action, and that's so so important.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: So I'm so grateful that you joined us today.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Thank you for.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Being here sharing your story, and you know just all
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: that you do. No matter where you are in your journey,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: it's never too late to wake up and rewrite your story.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I will see you next week, and thank you again,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: doctor Jeffy for being here.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Marci, thank you everybody.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Bye bye,