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Parenting Your Anxious Child with Micah Maddox · All Mom Does Podcast with Julie Lyles Carr

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Speaker 1: Purposely, your life, God's purpose.
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Speaker 2: More podcasts at Purposely.com.
0:08
Speaker 1: Think about what's going on in the child's life. And
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Speaker 1: could it be that they are just caring a lot
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Speaker 1: and they need the boundaries? No, we can't scream at
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Speaker 1: mom when it's bedtime. Sorry. No, we can't hit or kick.
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Speaker 1: But what we can do is say, I'm hurting and
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Speaker 1: I'm really struggling with this today.
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Speaker 2: Here we are back with another episode of All Mom Does.
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Speaker 3: We're part of the Purposely Podcast Network.
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Speaker 2: And whether this is your first time to tune in
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Speaker 2: or you have been here for a minute, I am
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Speaker 2: so thrilled you're here. Every week we come to you
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Speaker 2: with guests, with topics that we hope really help you,
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Speaker 2: equip you, answer some questions, inspire you right in the
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Speaker 2: middle of things that you are working through in your
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Speaker 2: life as a woman, as a mom, as a wife,
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Speaker 2: as a.
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Speaker 3: Business person, all the things.
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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Julie Lyles-Karr, and today I am so
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Speaker 2: excited to welcome Micah Maddox. She is also a mom
1:03
Speaker 2: of a supersized family.
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Speaker 3: I've got eight on my.
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Speaker 2: Side, she's got five on her side, and she's gonna
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Speaker 2: be talking to us about something that I have to
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Speaker 2: tell you, I've been following the research on very closely
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Speaker 2: because it's something that we've experienced in our family. There
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Speaker 2: is something of a growing generation that is really struggling
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Speaker 2: with this.
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Speaker 3: What are we going to be talking about?
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Speaker 2: Anxiety, childhood anxiety. Micah, thanks so much for being here today.
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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, Julie.
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Speaker 3: Absolutely.
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Speaker 2: So tell the listener, give them a little backstory on you,
1:34
Speaker 2: where you live, the family, all those kind of details.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm married to my high school sweetheart. We've
1:40
Speaker 1: been married for just over 20 years. We have served
1:43
Speaker 1: in church ministry our entire lives. So my husband's a pastor.
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Speaker 1: We love the local church. We have fostered and adopted children.
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Speaker 1: We also have biological children. So right now, currently we
1:55
Speaker 1: do have five children. We have been in seasons where
1:59
Speaker 1: we've had the big van and many more children under
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Speaker 1: the roof. So our children range in age from five
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Speaker 1: all the way up to young adult children. So we
2:09
Speaker 1: are currently in every season of parenting except for the
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Speaker 1: babies right now. And so it's a This topic of
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Speaker 1: anxiety has been a thing in our family that we
2:23
Speaker 1: have experienced not just once or twice, but just about
2:28
Speaker 1: every child in our family, to some degree, has experienced anxiety. Now,
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Speaker 1: with our experience in foster care and adoption, along with trauma,
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Speaker 1: along with any diagnosis, comes naturally anxiety. It's just kind
2:45
Speaker 1: of hand in hand. And so with that, one of
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Speaker 1: our children, particularly he's high functioning on the autism spectrum, PTSD, ADHD,
2:54
Speaker 1: and some other, some other diagnosis and generalized anxiety has
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Speaker 1: been one of those also. But the reason I share
3:01
Speaker 1: all of that is because we have seen this particular
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Speaker 1: child transform his heart and his mind in a way
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Speaker 1: where he has been able to calm the chaos. And
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Speaker 1: so I am using my voice to share some hope
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Speaker 1: with parents that it doesn't have to always be the
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Speaker 1: way that it is right now.
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Speaker 3: Oh, I love that.
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Speaker 2: One of the stats that I ran across recently that
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Speaker 2: I thought was so fascinating, Micah, was You know, when
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Speaker 2: gentle parenting really came to the forefront, and I'm going
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Speaker 2: to use the most extreme example of gentle parenting because
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Speaker 2: obviously there are components that are really beautiful, like helping
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Speaker 2: our kids understand the emotions they're having and giving those
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Speaker 2: emotions a name and not shaming people for having emotions.
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Speaker 2: But in the best case scenarios, helping a child really
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Speaker 2: understand how to regulate themselves, how to name what's going on.
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Speaker 2: But as with any good thing, we can also see
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Speaker 2: it taken all the way to the other side where
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Speaker 2: there is just, it can be chaos and emotions rule
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Speaker 2: the roost and the child rules the roost and all
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Speaker 2: the things. And one of the stats that we're finally
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Speaker 2: being able to see, because we just didn't have this before,
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Speaker 2: were more longitudinal studies on children raised under that kind
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Speaker 2: of parenting trend. And what we're finding, those kids are
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Speaker 2: now 12 years old, they represent statistically as the most
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Speaker 2: anxious children that we have looked at to date, which
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Speaker 2: is really wild to think about because, of course, with
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Speaker 2: your son who is coming out of foster care, we
4:29
Speaker 2: can clearly peg, oh, well, of course, he's possibly been
4:33
Speaker 2: through this or that or the other, and he's been
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Speaker 2: through incredible transition and all kinds of things as a
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Speaker 2: young kid. So naturally, he would have some anxiety. But
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Speaker 2: we're also seeing it in kids that we just don't
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Speaker 2: understand why it would clock for them who have been
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Speaker 2: in environments with loving, intentional parents who are doing what
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Speaker 2: they can do and are trying to equip children well emotionally.
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Speaker 2: And yet we're still seeing this anxiousness come forth. We
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Speaker 2: saw it in our own family and a couple of
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Speaker 2: our kids who just seem to be a bit more
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Speaker 2: wired toward tripping over into anxiety and based on things
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Speaker 2: that I think a lot of people would look at
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Speaker 2: and say, those are just sort of normal things that
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Speaker 2: happen in life. There's nothing cataclysmic there. Why tip over
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Speaker 2: into the anxiety response? So what are you noticing when
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Speaker 2: we see kids that obviously there are children that you think,
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Speaker 2: of course, they came through trauma, they came through this, that,
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Speaker 2: and the other, of course, they're going to have anxiety.
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Speaker 2: But then we see kids that that's not what's going
5:29
Speaker 2: on for them. And we're just trying to track, so
5:32
Speaker 2: how does anxiety enter the conversation with the child who
5:35
Speaker 2: hasn't been through some of the traumas and things that
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Speaker 2: other kids have?
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Speaker 1: Fears and anxieties, that's a natural response. We're all going
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Speaker 1: to deal with these types of feelings. Some of them
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Speaker 1: escalate into what we would call a disorder, and they're
5:49
Speaker 1: going to be repetitive, and it's going to be regular.
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Speaker 1: And some of that, it can come from trauma, but
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Speaker 1: then it can just come from maybe unattended feelings. fears,
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Speaker 1: problems that are happening. We feed on what's going on
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Speaker 1: around us. So if there's family trauma, you can feel
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Speaker 1: it in the room. If there's problems going on at school,
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Speaker 1: at home, something's happened on the news and it's playing
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Speaker 1: on the TV, kids are going to feed off of
6:14
Speaker 1: those things. And so as parents, we have the opportunity.
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Speaker 1: Are we going to guide them through it or are
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Speaker 1: we going to let them escalate and then say, oh,
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Speaker 1: they have a disorder. They have a problem.
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Speaker 3: I don't know what to do.
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Speaker 1: What we can do is intervene and help the children
6:32
Speaker 1: learn how to cope. Part of that is modeling. It's
6:36
Speaker 1: how do I respond when a friend doesn't like me?
6:40
Speaker 1: How do I respond when I don't win the game?
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Speaker 1: How do I respond when I'm feeling out of control
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Speaker 1: and I don't know what to do? And these are
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Speaker 1: parenting things that we've got to guide our children through.
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Speaker 1: Some kids, it's really easy. We guide them through it.
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Speaker 1: We tell them one time, hey, It's okay. We win
6:57
Speaker 1: and we lose. Other kids are wired differently and they
7:01
Speaker 1: struggle to overcome. And then some really, really, really struggle.
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Speaker 1: And so it's going to look different for each child.
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Speaker 1: And it's going to look different in our response to
7:12
Speaker 1: each child. And then the outcome might look a little different.
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Speaker 1: And so it's really just evaluating and learning each child
7:19
Speaker 1: and how they are going to respond to what they
7:23
Speaker 1: are going through. Right.
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Speaker 2: I often see something happen that is pretty fascinating. You
7:29
Speaker 2: may have one parent who really does not grapple with
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Speaker 2: anxiety or worry that much. They just have this gift
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Speaker 2: of kind of being, it's all going to work out.
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Speaker 3: It's fine. Or maybe they've done.
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Speaker 2: Some work to make sure that they stay in a
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Speaker 2: mindset of, hey, it's going to be all right.
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Speaker 3: Things are okay. I'm safe. We're good. God's got this.
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Speaker 2: And so sometimes for that parent, it's easy for them
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Speaker 2: to hear a child's worry or anxiety and brush it off,
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Speaker 2: not really let it soak and think, this kid's really
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Speaker 2: concerned about this. The other side I have seen is
8:01
Speaker 2: a parent who is extremely anxious. And to some degree,
8:06
Speaker 2: a child feels like, oh, that's adulting. Being completely anxious
8:12
Speaker 2: and freaked out. And again, I'm not trying to put,
8:15
Speaker 2: you know, I'm trying to be very tender here. I'm
8:17
Speaker 2: not trying to blame a parent. I'm saying one of
8:20
Speaker 2: the truisms I've definitely learned in my own life is
8:23
Speaker 2: that it is very difficult to out-parent how you're actually living.
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Speaker 2: And so if you yourself are grappling with something, the
8:33
Speaker 2: expectation that your kid's going to be able to just
8:35
Speaker 2: push past it, you may hope and wish they could.
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Speaker 2: You may really, really, you would love if they would
8:41
Speaker 2: not struggle with some of the same things. But if
8:43
Speaker 2: they are struggling with some of the same things, to me,
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Speaker 2: one of the best things you can do in terms
8:48
Speaker 2: of your parenting journey is is go get it sorted
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Speaker 2: for yourself, get the tools, get the counsel you need
8:53
Speaker 2: in order to move past it so that you can
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Speaker 2: effectively coach your child who might be experiencing the same
9:00
Speaker 2: type of things. The other side of that is the
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Speaker 2: parent for whom this just isn't much of a problem
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Speaker 2: and finds it very difficult to relate. The willingness to
9:09
Speaker 2: be soft in that, the willingness to take a moment
9:13
Speaker 2: to really consider it from the child's.
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Speaker 3: Point of view, I think is a powerful one. Help
9:17
Speaker 3: equip us.
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Speaker 2: With some good definitions because I think sometimes what falls
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Speaker 2: into this little potpourri is worry, fear, anxiety, scared, being
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Speaker 2: scared socially but not in other ways. How do we
9:34
Speaker 2: sort through and figure out a little bit more of
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Speaker 2: exactly what we're dealing with and how to respond to
9:40
Speaker 2: it when it can show up differently or when we
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Speaker 2: use different language to express parts of it?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is one of the biggest questions I
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Speaker 1: get is, does my child actually have anxiety? Like, is
9:51
Speaker 1: this anxiety that I'm dealing with? And I think it's
9:54
Speaker 1: a good question, but I think the biggest thing that
9:57
Speaker 1: we can look at, if it's truly anxiety, we're going
9:59
Speaker 1: to see it happen over and over. We're going to
10:01
Speaker 1: see it repeated again and again. So we might have
10:04
Speaker 1: a you coach them through it. We study, we're prepared.
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Speaker 1: We do the best we can. They go in, they
10:12
Speaker 1: take the test. And then the next test, they're like, Hey,
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Speaker 1: I figured out that I can study and I can
10:17
Speaker 1: do this. We wouldn't necessarily call that anxiety. That's just
10:21
Speaker 1: a typical normal situation that a child's going through. They
10:25
Speaker 1: had a moment maybe of anxiety and they've worked through
10:27
Speaker 1: it and they're good. A child who's really truly dealing
10:31
Speaker 1: with anxiety on a regular basis is is going to
10:34
Speaker 1: have a struggle every time the word test comes up, right?
10:38
Speaker 1: Every time it's going to be a repeated issue day
10:42
Speaker 1: after day where it's going to interrupt the family flow.
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Speaker 1: So if we're seeing these situations where it's interrupting every
10:49
Speaker 1: day and we're slow, we're having to stop what we're
10:52
Speaker 1: doing and interrupt our, you know, what we're doing every
10:56
Speaker 1: single day, that's when we're going to go, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, something,
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Speaker 1: something's got to give. And it takes time. It takes
11:03
Speaker 1: time to help a child through an anxious episode. It
11:07
Speaker 1: may look like simply like biting nails, chewing a shirt.
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Speaker 1: It can look like throwing a tantrum. It can look
11:13
Speaker 1: like totally shutting down where the kid doesn't respond at all.
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Speaker 1: Some of these things, we might call them bad habits
11:19
Speaker 1: or misbehaviors, you know, and we might try to respond
11:23
Speaker 1: in a way like we have with a typical kid
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Speaker 1: in a misbehavior and find out that that child's not
11:29
Speaker 1: responding to that correction at or that instruction. And that's
11:34
Speaker 1: when we got to go, okay, no, we don't want
11:36
Speaker 1: to use the gentle parenting in the terms that you
11:38
Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, but children absolutely need boundaries. They
11:45
Speaker 1: need parameters. They feel safer and they feel less anxious
11:49
Speaker 1: when there are clear boundaries and clear parameters set for them. Right.
11:55
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things that is so
11:58
Speaker 2: important to remember. I've seen it with my own kids.
12:02
Speaker 3: We were, you know, to many degrees, we were just
12:06
Speaker 3: pretty easygoing parents.
12:07
Speaker 2: I just wasn't too wrapped up in, frankly, the number
12:10
Speaker 2: of kids I have, you know, they weren't down. But
12:13
Speaker 2: I just wasn't too, I just wasn't going to hold
12:16
Speaker 2: up to a certain standard or put myself under the pressure.
12:19
Speaker 2: The house has to look like this. You know, you
12:21
Speaker 2: can't jump on this piece of furniture. You can't, I
12:24
Speaker 2: gave up on all of that a long time ago.
12:26
Speaker 2: But one thing that was fascinating was there were a
12:29
Speaker 2: couple lines that we held that the relief my kids
12:32
Speaker 2: felt when there would be this moment of, okay, yeah, yeah.
12:37
Speaker 2: You know, we've played around, we've messed around, but boom,
12:40
Speaker 2: this is the line. Oftentimes what they would even say
12:43
Speaker 2: in response of.
12:44
Speaker 3: Oh, okay. You know, like I needed that.
12:45
Speaker 2: I needed to know where that line was, how helpful
12:48
Speaker 2: that was. And I think we become a little bit
12:50
Speaker 2: hesitant in today's parenting to how to hold some of
12:52
Speaker 2: those lines.
12:53
Speaker 3: And yeah, absolutely.
12:54
Speaker 2: It does a disservice to the kids.
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Speaker 1: Definitely does a disservice to the kid. And it, it, it,
12:59
Speaker 1: It basically brings on anxiety because when I know with
13:03
Speaker 1: my kids who, especially a kid who has ADHD or
13:07
Speaker 1: isn't quite sure about the rules, it doesn't really know
13:09
Speaker 1: what they're learning, the methods, they're learning the rules, they're
13:12
Speaker 1: learning the routines. I found when they don't know what
13:17
Speaker 1: is expected or they don't know what to do, they
13:21
Speaker 1: act out. They're going to act out. They're going to
13:24
Speaker 1: cross lines if they don't know where the line is.
13:27
Speaker 1: if you give them an inch, they're going to take
13:28
Speaker 1: a mile. And that's with misbehavior and with anxious feelings.
13:32
Speaker 1: So it's kind of this mesh of explosion that parents
13:37
Speaker 1: are like, what happened? Well, what happened was the child
13:39
Speaker 1: did not know what to expect, didn't know what to do.
13:43
Speaker 1: And so with anxious children, particularly, I found I've got
13:48
Speaker 1: to be really specific. I've got to prepare ahead of
13:50
Speaker 1: time and tell them, hey, this is where we're going,
13:53
Speaker 1: what we're doing, and here's what you can do while
13:57
Speaker 1: we're there. And it sets them at ease. It gives
14:00
Speaker 1: them clear parameters so they know what to do and
14:04
Speaker 1: what not to do. And then if we walk into
14:07
Speaker 1: a new situation that might otherwise be really scary, they're like, oh,
14:11
Speaker 1: mom told me that this is how it would be.
14:14
Speaker 1: And here we are. And this is how it's going
14:16
Speaker 1: to be. Right.
14:17
Speaker 2: Micah, I love that prompt, that tip to tell kids
14:20
Speaker 2: ahead of time, we're going to get our shoes on.
14:23
Speaker 3: We're going to go get in. In my case, it
14:25
Speaker 3: was a 15 passenger van. We're going to do this.
14:27
Speaker 3: We're going to do that.
14:28
Speaker 2: And I can see in my own parenting, in my
14:31
Speaker 2: tumult of just trying to get us out the door
14:33
Speaker 2: and make sure I had the diaper bag with all
14:35
Speaker 2: the things and on and on and on. I'm sure
14:38
Speaker 2: there were many times that some of my kids were like,
14:40
Speaker 2: I don't know what we're doing. I have no idea.
14:42
Speaker 3: She just said, everybody load up. Where are we going?
14:46
Speaker 2: And for a couple of my kids, I could see
14:48
Speaker 2: that that likely was very disorienting. I've got a couple
14:52
Speaker 2: who are like, party on, we're just along for the ride.
14:54
Speaker 2: But I have others that I can see that would
14:57
Speaker 2: make a big difference. One of the things that I
14:59
Speaker 2: think is really challenging for parents, and I'd love.
15:01
Speaker 3: To hear you help us parse this.
15:04
Speaker 2: Is it is confusing when you see something that looks
15:08
Speaker 2: like disobedience or bad behavior and you don't know why
15:12
Speaker 2: and you don't associate it with what emotionally might be
15:16
Speaker 2: going on.
15:17
Speaker 3: With the child. And I think for a lot of
15:18
Speaker 3: us as people of faith.
15:20
Speaker 2: We can jump really fast to assuming a kid is
15:24
Speaker 2: disobeying or being sinful rather than seeing, oh, this is
15:27
Speaker 2: how they're trying to work out an anxiousness, a fear.
15:32
Speaker 2: And even though I've told that kid a hundred times
15:34
Speaker 2: to not chew on their shirt, this is not them rebelling.
15:37
Speaker 2: This is them trying to figure out a way to
15:40
Speaker 2: calm themselves. So how do we go about gingerly, appropriately, wisely,
15:46
Speaker 2: the work of holding our kids to a certain standard,
15:49
Speaker 2: of course, but also being willing to look a little
15:52
Speaker 2: deeper and go, maybe this isn't just about chewing the
15:56
Speaker 2: shirt and doing it, even though I've said don't do it.
15:59
Speaker 2: Maybe there's something more going on here.
16:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is really where just parents educating ourselves, understanding
16:06
Speaker 1: what anxiety is, understanding sensory issues, understanding different diagnosis. A
16:11
Speaker 1: lot of kids who truly have an anxiety disorder also
16:15
Speaker 1: have other issues. It looks a lot like ADHD. ADHD
16:21
Speaker 1: is typically hand in hand with anxiety. And so these
16:24
Speaker 1: work together. And so If we are educated and we
16:28
Speaker 1: know these things, then we can get the child the
16:30
Speaker 1: help that they need. It might mean that they need
16:32
Speaker 1: therapy or that they need medication and that they need
16:35
Speaker 1: a little more extra instruction and extra time.
16:38
Speaker 3: It might mean that.
16:40
Speaker 1: They need something else that they can chew on that
16:42
Speaker 1: would be appropriate. You know, adults chew gum, adults chew
16:46
Speaker 1: pin caps, you know? And so a lot of times
16:49
Speaker 1: I think of as an adult, you know, as an
16:51
Speaker 1: adult woman, we think of our, our monthly time and PMS.
16:54
Speaker 1: And sometimes we don't act quite like we would like
16:57
Speaker 1: to act. We don't act our best and we might
16:59
Speaker 1: be a little snippy or a little snappy. And, you know,
17:01
Speaker 1: kids have their own moments where they're also not going
17:05
Speaker 1: to act exactly ship shape like we think they should and,
17:08
Speaker 1: And so if we step back and just observe, I
17:12
Speaker 1: have learned to be a student of my kid. So
17:15
Speaker 1: I'm just watching and I'm trying to understand, okay, why
17:20
Speaker 1: did they just have that major meltdown? Was it just
17:23
Speaker 1: that they hate me and they're mad at me? Usually not.
17:27
Speaker 1: It's usually not personal to me. It's not an attack
17:30
Speaker 1: against me. It could be that they just didn't like
17:35
Speaker 1: what was happening and that could be a misbehavior or
17:37
Speaker 1: it could be that they had a really hard day
17:41
Speaker 1: and they are just struggling with all kinds of things
17:44
Speaker 1: and they had fallen off their bike outside and then
17:46
Speaker 1: their brother said something really unkind and all these things
17:50
Speaker 1: pile up. And just like an adult, when we've had
17:53
Speaker 1: a really bad day, we have a big problem and
17:56
Speaker 1: we don't always act exactly like we should. It's the
17:59
Speaker 1: same for children. So just being sensitive to the idea
18:03
Speaker 1: that it's possible that when they are chewing something that
18:07
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be chewing, or they're throwing a fit or
18:10
Speaker 1: acting out or doing something extreme where we're like, whoa,
18:14
Speaker 1: where did that come from? It's possible it didn't just
18:16
Speaker 1: come out of the blue. It did come from something
18:19
Speaker 1: that's going on that's deeper. For example, one of our
18:23
Speaker 1: children recently who does have past trauma through a major
18:27
Speaker 1: fit and it was over like going to bed, you know,
18:29
Speaker 1: just something, a normal routine, normal daily routine. And I,
18:34
Speaker 1: I was at, my first response was like, we are
18:37
Speaker 1: going to bed. Like, no, this is not how we act.
18:41
Speaker 1: We know better. This is not what we're doing. And
18:44
Speaker 1: then I, I just stopped for a minute and I'm thinking, what,
18:49
Speaker 1: what's going on here? This isn't normal. This isn't typical.
18:52
Speaker 1: We don't normally throw a fit over bedtimes. And I
18:56
Speaker 1: got down on the child's level and put my arms
18:58
Speaker 1: around the child and realized there was something much, much deeper.
19:02
Speaker 1: And I won't go into all of the details, but
19:04
Speaker 1: the child was able to say, I'm really thinking about this.
19:08
Speaker 1: And it was something that even an adult, a grief
19:13
Speaker 1: that an adult would struggle to carry. And I'm like,
19:16
Speaker 1: if I would struggle with that type of grief and loss...
19:20
Speaker 1: this little child is carrying that same grief and loss.
19:24
Speaker 1: And here I'm about to correct a bad behavior because
19:27
Speaker 1: I think that it is something that is just disobedient
19:29
Speaker 1: towards me when in fact their little body is just
19:33
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do I even hold all
19:36
Speaker 1: that my heart is feeling. So when I say step
19:39
Speaker 1: back and observe your child, recognize has there been a
19:42
Speaker 1: major move? Have we lost someone in our family recently?
19:46
Speaker 1: Has there been a relational split up where there's someone
19:49
Speaker 1: in their life that they really loved that's not around anymore?
19:53
Speaker 1: Has their teacher been on vacation at school and they've
19:56
Speaker 1: had a substitute and they're just struggling with that because
19:58
Speaker 1: the routine's a little wonky? So think about what's going
20:02
Speaker 1: on in the child's life and could it be that
20:04
Speaker 1: they are just caring a lot And they need the boundaries. No,
20:08
Speaker 1: we can't scream at mom when it's bedtime. Sorry. No,
20:12
Speaker 1: we can't hit or kick. But what we can do
20:15
Speaker 1: is say, I'm hurting and I'm really struggling.
20:18
Speaker 3: With this today.
20:20
Speaker 2: Here at the Almondos Podcast, I am so thankful for
20:22
Speaker 2: our sponsor, George Fox University. They are so faithful to
20:26
Speaker 2: walk alongside with us and make sure that this podcast
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Speaker 2: their heartbeat is that your student will be known. that
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Speaker 2: 100% of undergrad students are going to receive financial aid.
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Speaker 2: But here's the math that.
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Speaker 3: Matters the very most.
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Speaker 2: 93% of George Fox University students say that they are
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Speaker 2: walking more closely with Jesus than ever before, that their
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Speaker 3: So I want you to go check out georgefox.edu.
21:19
Speaker 2: That's georgefox.edu to see if George Fox University is your
21:23
Speaker 2: student's next move.
21:26
Speaker 1: Right.
21:26
Speaker 2: That helps equip them, helps them identify what's going on.
21:29
Speaker 2: Such a beautiful thing to do for them. How do
21:32
Speaker 2: we decouple, if you will? Because in something like anxiety
21:35
Speaker 2: in kids, there are kids who are very quiet. You
21:37
Speaker 2: would have no idea what's going on. And I've got
21:40
Speaker 2: one that was like that. He would sit on something.
21:43
Speaker 3: It was wild, Micah.
21:45
Speaker 2: He would act very normal.
21:46
Speaker 3: Everything would be fine.
21:48
Speaker 2: And then he would say, hey, mom, can I talk
21:50
Speaker 2: to you about something?
21:51
Speaker 3: Be sure. And I'd walk back.
21:53
Speaker 2: And I would discover that three months ago, six months ago,
21:56
Speaker 2: something happened that really hurt him, hurt his feelings, had
21:59
Speaker 2: created concern. And I would just be so floored because
22:04
Speaker 2: you would.
22:04
Speaker 3: Not have known it. And he was a young guy
22:06
Speaker 3: when this was going on. He was six, seven, eight
22:08
Speaker 3: years old.
22:09
Speaker 2: On the other side, I also have a couple of
22:11
Speaker 2: kids that when they would go into a little bit
22:15
Speaker 2: of an anxiety spiral, they would just go into vapor lock.
22:18
Speaker 2: I mean, it would be the upset and the crying
22:20
Speaker 2: and the clawing the doorframe as you're trying to move
22:23
Speaker 2: a kid from.
22:23
Speaker 3: One spot to another.
22:25
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I think is hard
22:27
Speaker 2: is when anxiety goes public like that. And whether you're
22:30
Speaker 2: in a public setting or even just in your home
22:33
Speaker 2: and a kid is acting out that strongly, that publicly,
22:37
Speaker 2: there is that moment that I think for a lot
22:39
Speaker 2: of us, it does feel personal. It does feel like
22:42
Speaker 2: some kind of commentary on our parenting and how things
22:46
Speaker 2: are going and all the things. And then if you
22:49
Speaker 2: have someone in public give you the side eye, if
22:51
Speaker 2: you're in the grocery store and the kid's freaking out
22:53
Speaker 2: and somebody gives you the side eye or The extended
22:56
Speaker 2: family member makes the comment at the family gathering when
22:59
Speaker 2: you have a kid just spinning out. That can even
23:02
Speaker 2: make our response more complex because now we're also trying
23:06
Speaker 2: to save some face.
23:07
Speaker 3: We're trying to make up for what feels like the deficit.
23:10
Speaker 2: So how do we remain connected to our child when
23:14
Speaker 2: they're grappling with anxiety in a more public or a
23:17
Speaker 2: less desirable way? behavioral way without going into our own
23:23
Speaker 2: spin because now we're anxious about what everybody thinks about us.
23:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is so real. And this happens to everybody.
23:29
Speaker 1: I think at some point, if you've been a parent,
23:32
Speaker 1: you're going to deal with this. And it's really hard
23:34
Speaker 1: when it's family and it's close and they're looking on.
23:37
Speaker 1: And then it's tough when you're in the grocery store
23:39
Speaker 1: and people are looking on. And we've got to do
23:43
Speaker 1: some work outside of those public moments. And so one
23:47
Speaker 1: of the things that we have really worked on, because
23:50
Speaker 1: I've been there, I, with with our foster and adoptive children,
23:53
Speaker 1: I've been the mom sitting on the concrete with a kid,
23:56
Speaker 1: like not able to move. Like we are just totally stuck.
24:00
Speaker 1: I've been there in the Walmart where kids throwing down
24:02
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh man, and this kid doesn't look
24:05
Speaker 1: like me. And they're like, are you the mom? You know?
24:07
Speaker 1: And I'm like, actually I am. Yeah. Yeah.
24:10
Speaker 3: I'm the one trying to navigate this.
24:11
Speaker 1: Yes. Trying, trying to walk through this. And so there's some,
24:15
Speaker 1: some work and some things that I have, we have
24:19
Speaker 1: learned and it's not foolproof.
24:20
Speaker 3: It's not perfect.
24:22
Speaker 1: But one thing, and this is just a, like a
24:25
Speaker 1: tried and true method that we've used. And we use
24:27
Speaker 1: it from the youngest to even the adults. My husband
24:30
Speaker 1: will say it to me sometimes is three little words
24:33
Speaker 1: and it's stop, breathe and think. And so in those moments,
24:38
Speaker 1: we just practice stop and we use our hand motions,
24:41
Speaker 1: put your hand up as in a stop sign, stop.
24:44
Speaker 1: And we put our hand on our chest, breathe. And
24:46
Speaker 1: I've taught my children to feel their heart in that moment.
24:48
Speaker 1: And so they're going to They're going to feel their
24:50
Speaker 1: little heart beating. And typically it's beating really hard and
24:52
Speaker 1: really fast. And my, one of my children, she'll say,
24:55
Speaker 1: my heart's so fast. And I'll say, yes, it needs
24:58
Speaker 1: to slow down. Let's breathe. You know, we'll breathe together, stop,
25:00
Speaker 1: breathe and think. And so then we can think and
25:02
Speaker 1: we can move through it. Now, somebody is going to
25:05
Speaker 1: be listening and being like, that ain't never going to
25:07
Speaker 1: work with my kid. Like they ain't stopping.
25:09
Speaker 2: They're not going to stop.
25:10
Speaker 1: And so this is, this is something we have practiced
25:13
Speaker 1: in the calm moments.
25:15
Speaker 3: There you go.
25:16
Speaker 1: When things are not chaotic, we're going to practice stop,
25:20
Speaker 1: breathe and think together. And we're going to do it repeatedly.
25:23
Speaker 1: And then when they're just playing, I'll be like, Hey guys, stop.
25:26
Speaker 1: And everybody stops. And we're practicing when it's not chaotic,
25:29
Speaker 1: breathe and think we might practice. If we know the
25:32
Speaker 1: grocery store is a struggle. which now we can order
25:35
Speaker 1: our groceries, which is such a blessing, but praise the Lord.
25:38
Speaker 1: But if we know that we've got to go to
25:41
Speaker 1: the grocery store and we know that that's a struggle
25:43
Speaker 1: or riding in the car is a struggle, then before
25:45
Speaker 1: we get there, we're going to practice. Hey guys, we're
25:47
Speaker 1: going to stop, breathe and think. We're going to stop,
25:51
Speaker 1: breathe and think. It gets everybody kind of in this
25:53
Speaker 1: mindset of stopping and slowing down and thinking. Now, if
25:59
Speaker 1: you've gotten to the grocery store, you've gotten to where
26:01
Speaker 1: you're going, you're at the birthday party, wherever it is,
26:04
Speaker 1: and the kid throws down. If they're small enough, which
26:07
Speaker 1: hopefully they are small enough if they're throwing down, I
26:11
Speaker 1: think it's most productive to get out of there. Remove
26:16
Speaker 1: the child so that you can truly talk and connect.
26:20
Speaker 1: It's really hard with an audience. And I've found most
26:23
Speaker 1: kids not most, some kids will act out with an audience.
26:27
Speaker 1: So if they realize people are watching, then they're going
26:31
Speaker 1: to scream and cry. One of my kids doesn't love
26:35
Speaker 1: to get their hair done. And so I'll have them
26:39
Speaker 1: in my bathroom trying to do their hair. And if
26:41
Speaker 1: someone comes in they will react like they are being killed.
26:46
Speaker 3: They will start screaming. Yes.
26:48
Speaker 1: But if the person is not, if there's no one
26:50
Speaker 1: in there and I'll just motion the person, like get
26:52
Speaker 1: out of here. You know, if there's no sibling or
26:54
Speaker 1: dad or anybody in the room.
26:56
Speaker 3: They're fine.
26:57
Speaker 1: And I'm like, it's just the onlookers feed the outburst.
27:02
Speaker 1: So if you can't escape, escape, connect with the child,
27:06
Speaker 1: get them eye to eye, hand to hand, and then
27:09
Speaker 1: heart to heart and stop and breathe.
27:11
Speaker 3: And think.
27:12
Speaker 1: And if you've practiced ahead of time, typically that child
27:15
Speaker 1: will be able to breathe and then think, and then we,
27:18
Speaker 1: we guide them through it. Hey, was that the right
27:21
Speaker 1: response in there? What's going on? You know, is screaming okay?
27:25
Speaker 1: Do we get what we want when we scream? Absolutely not.
27:28
Speaker 1: We don't. So let's try it again and let's, let's
27:31
Speaker 1: do this the right way.
27:33
Speaker 3: I love that.
27:34
Speaker 2: And I think it is just genius to practice it
27:36
Speaker 2: in the non-critical moments.
27:38
Speaker 1: That's vital. It's vital.
27:39
Speaker 3: It really is. It really is.
27:42
Speaker 2: I think so often we start moving toward trying to
27:44
Speaker 2: correct behavior or we try to engage a tool, but
27:47
Speaker 2: it's when things are already too heightened. When, you know,
27:50
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, the kid's system is just in overdrive.
27:53
Speaker 2: And let's face it, it's hard for any of us
27:56
Speaker 2: to inculcate new behaviors, to take a pause, to do
28:00
Speaker 2: any of that. When it's fresh, it's a fresh thing
28:04
Speaker 2: we've never experienced before.
28:05
Speaker 3: And then boom, now in the middle of this, you
28:07
Speaker 3: want me to do what?
28:07
Speaker 2: So I love that you talk about doing and practicing
28:11
Speaker 2: that ahead of time. One of my daughters who has
28:13
Speaker 2: my two grandchildren, she says to one of hers, catch
28:17
Speaker 2: a bubble, which is her phrase.
28:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, her phrase for, you know, just.
28:21
Speaker 2: Taking a breath and like, catch a bubble, let mommy talk.
28:24
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, it's really, really powerful to see
28:26
Speaker 2: it play out and to see what a simple thing
28:28
Speaker 2: that can be.
28:29
Speaker 1: Right.
28:29
Speaker 3: So what a great tip.
28:32
Speaker 2: How do you, Micah, advise when it comes to this
28:35
Speaker 2: thing that sometimes we have done in faith circles, which
28:39
Speaker 2: is when someone is expressing concern or worry or anxiety,
28:43
Speaker 2: whether that's an adult or a child, and we pop
28:47
Speaker 2: off with something kind of cutesy or we say, well,
28:49
Speaker 2: don't worry, just pray about it. Or the Bible says,
28:52
Speaker 2: fear not X amount of times, one for every day.
28:54
Speaker 3: And I know it's well-intentioned.
28:56
Speaker 2: I get that. But we seem to be ignoring sometimes
29:01
Speaker 2: the wiring or past traumas or where someone is developmentally
29:06
Speaker 2: and their ability to be able to kind of regulate, downregulate,
29:12
Speaker 2: do whatever they need to do.
29:13
Speaker 1: Yeah.
29:14
Speaker 2: How do we continue to encourage people in the faith,
29:18
Speaker 2: encourage them that God is with them, and yet not
29:22
Speaker 2: overly minimize the experience they're having emotionally?
29:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is a really good and it's
29:29
Speaker 1: a powerful question. And we've seen with our family, both
29:35
Speaker 1: the body and the brain and the heart all need
29:38
Speaker 1: to be addressed, okay? So we've got that spiritual piece
29:41
Speaker 1: that absolutely needs to be addressed. For sure, we're going
29:44
Speaker 1: to pray. Of course, we're going to go to God's word.
29:47
Speaker 1: And His word says that if we bring everything to
29:50
Speaker 1: Him with thanksgiving, then He's going to guard our hearts
29:53
Speaker 1: and our We know this is true. And so we're
29:57
Speaker 1: going to use those tools that God has given us,
29:59
Speaker 1: those tools of having a grateful and a thankful heart.
30:03
Speaker 1: And we're going to pray. He says, if you ask
30:04
Speaker 1: anything in my name, He will hear you. And so
30:08
Speaker 1: we're going to pray and we're going to beg God
30:09
Speaker 1: to help our child to rewire their brain. And He
30:13
Speaker 1: can do that. He can work a miracle and He
30:15
Speaker 1: can rewire their brain. Absolutely, we're going to do those things.
30:18
Speaker 1: But we're also going to realize God created our bodies
30:22
Speaker 1: and our brains and the way that some of our
30:24
Speaker 1: brains are wired. I have a child who was born
30:29
Speaker 1: drug addicted and that child's brain is in overdrive. Central
30:34
Speaker 1: nervous system is in overdrive. We cannot ignore that and
30:38
Speaker 1: pretend like we can slap a bandaid Bible verse on
30:42
Speaker 1: her little forehead and that everything's going to be better
30:44
Speaker 1: and that she's not going to be in overdrive anymore.
30:46
Speaker 1: We cannot do that. So I would advise any parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle,
30:52
Speaker 1: caregiver who has a child and you know there's trauma,
30:56
Speaker 1: you know there's a struggle. Adopted, not adopted, foster care,
31:00
Speaker 1: not foster care, does not matter where they come from,
31:03
Speaker 1: but it does. And so noticing and knowing their history,
31:10
Speaker 1: get the evaluation, go to the doctor, get the professional's
31:16
Speaker 1: evaluation of help. Be a student of your child. I
31:19
Speaker 1: had a child who there was a specific diagnosis that
31:24
Speaker 1: a doctor was pushing and I just didn't feel confident.
31:28
Speaker 1: I didn't feel comfortable with that diagnosis. And I truly
31:31
Speaker 1: felt like the child's diagnosis was anxiety because I would
31:35
Speaker 1: watch the child's behaviors and It just seemed like every
31:40
Speaker 1: behavior that we were struggling with was rooted and grounded
31:43
Speaker 1: out of a fear. There was a fear that was
31:46
Speaker 1: driving it. And so be a student of your child.
31:49
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, yes, the doctor came
31:52
Speaker 1: around and said, I think you're right. I think you're right.
31:56
Speaker 1: And so ask the Lord for wisdom and insight. That
31:59
Speaker 1: same child, we struggled. The child needed medication. He needed
32:04
Speaker 1: the medication. And we tried different ones and we failed several,
32:09
Speaker 1: which means that he did not respond in the way
32:11
Speaker 1: that a doctor would typically expect them to respond. And
32:16
Speaker 1: I just prayed and asked the Lord. This is where
32:18
Speaker 1: that spiritual piece comes in. God, we need something for him.
32:21
Speaker 1: I don't know what. And the Lord led me. I
32:24
Speaker 1: feel like truly led me to the right medication just
32:27
Speaker 1: by some little research online. And I took it to
32:29
Speaker 1: the doctor and said, what about this? And the doctor said,
32:32
Speaker 1: let's try it. We tried it. And that was exactly
32:35
Speaker 1: what that child needed. So there's this, yes, brain, body, chemistry.
32:41
Speaker 1: And there is a mighty, holy, powerful, miraculous working God
32:46
Speaker 1: that we serve. And we've got to realize that. both.
32:50
Speaker 1: It's both and. It's not either or. Do I believe
32:54
Speaker 1: God can work miracles? I do. We've seen it in
32:57
Speaker 1: our son. We were told early on, this is developmentally,
33:04
Speaker 1: that he might not ever be able to meet some
33:07
Speaker 1: criteria like other children. And he's thriving in his classroom.
33:12
Speaker 1: He won the spelling bee and the science fair, and
33:14
Speaker 1: he's doing all these things that the doctor said he
33:16
Speaker 1: never could do. So we don't want to discount the
33:19
Speaker 1: spiritual amazing, miraculous working God that we have. But we
33:24
Speaker 1: also want to be a student to study our children,
33:27
Speaker 1: to learn and to ask God, show me, Lord, is
33:30
Speaker 1: this something that needs a medical doctor to look at?
33:35
Speaker 1: Or is this something that we can manage at home?
33:38
Speaker 2: I love that you distinguish that and that it can
33:40
Speaker 2: be both.
33:40
Speaker 3: And I think that is so beautiful.
33:42
Speaker 2: Well, Micah, I'm so excited for you for the book.
33:45
Speaker 2: So exciting to know that this is going to be
33:47
Speaker 2: out and parents, it's just going to be so helpful.
33:50
Speaker 2: And I want the listener to know where to go,
33:52
Speaker 2: where to find it, all the things. The book is
33:54
Speaker 2: called Calming Your Anxious Child, A Biblical Game Plan for
33:56
Speaker 2: Parenting Through Big Emotions. So tell the listener where they
34:00
Speaker 2: can go find you, find all the good stuff.
34:02
Speaker 1: Yes. So my website is micahmaddox.com. And there you can
34:07
Speaker 1: find information about the book. There's also some really good
34:10
Speaker 1: free resources. So if you have a child who is anxious,
34:14
Speaker 1: there's a whole workbook that you and your child can
34:16
Speaker 1: go through together. So it's some activities to connect heart
34:19
Speaker 1: to heart, hand to hand that you can use right there.
34:23
Speaker 1: And also if you are a ministry worker, there's some
34:27
Speaker 1: different resources for your leadership that helps aid in how
34:31
Speaker 1: do we deal with these children who come in who
34:33
Speaker 1: might have a diagnosis that are struggling with in the
34:36
Speaker 1: classroom and just, we were not sure how to handle things.
34:40
Speaker 1: So there's some, some really neat resources on the website, micahmaddox.com. Also,
34:45
Speaker 1: you can pick up a copy on Amazon or you
34:48
Speaker 1: can go connect with me on Instagram. It's Mrs. Maddox, Mrs. Micah, M-R-S-M-I-C-A-H. Okay. Mrs.
34:56
Speaker 3: Micah, love it.
34:57
Speaker 1: All right.
34:57
Speaker 2: Well, Micah, again, thank you so much for sharing your heart,
35:01
Speaker 2: the amazing experiences that you've had and This really empowering
35:05
Speaker 2: call to parents about how to navigate things like anxiety
35:09
Speaker 2: with our kids.
35:10
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
35:11
Speaker 1: Thank you, Julie.
35:13
Speaker 3: All right, friend, you know what I'm going to say.
35:14
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you to go to the show notes,
35:16
Speaker 2: but actually before you go to the show notes, I
35:19
Speaker 2: want you to call our hotline. That's right. All Mom
35:22
Speaker 2: Does has our own hotline now.
35:24
Speaker 3: It is 888-834-2165.
35:27
Speaker 2: You can call that hotline and ask any question that
35:30
Speaker 2: you want, that you want to hear addressed on the
35:32
Speaker 2: All Mom Does podcast. suggest a guest, share your own experience.
35:37
Speaker 2: I want to hear from you. And of course, there's
35:39
Speaker 2: all the legal that, as you know, this is a
35:41
Speaker 2: podcast that's just here to support you.
35:43
Speaker 3: And we're not doctors or clinicians.
35:45
Speaker 2: And if you call the hotline, we might use your
35:47
Speaker 2: name and your recorded voice, all that stuff.
35:49
Speaker 3: You know that.
35:50
Speaker 2: But go to the hotline because we love hearing from you.
35:53
Speaker 3: And then go check out the show notes.
35:55
Speaker 2: And that's where Rebecca is going to have all the
35:56
Speaker 2: links from today's episode with Micah.
35:58
Speaker 3: I love to hear from you too.
35:59
Speaker 2: Julie Lyle's car over on Instagram is where.
36:01
Speaker 3: I usually hang out.
36:03
Speaker 2: And I will see you next episode on the All
36:06
Speaker 2: Mom Does podcast.