Latest / The Rochelle Christiane Podcast / 179. Shadow work with the Skeptical Shaman

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179. Shadow work with the Skeptical Shaman · The Rochelle Christiane Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the emotional mastery podcast.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I am your host, rochelle.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a holistic human design health coach and this is a space for human design and spiritual journey.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It's not about being a master of your emotions, rather mastering the tools to self-wrinkly, to awakening yourself and remembering who you are.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Human design changed my life about five years ago and I've been learning and teaching the system ever since.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: This podcast is human design meets spirituality, meets astrology.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: You don't have to have a belief system to be here, just an open mind and curiosity.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: This is a journey of meeting yourself and awakening to your infinite potential.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Now let the magic begin.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of the emotional mastery podcast.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I'm talking to Rachel White.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Rachel is known as the skeptical shaman.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: She is an unusual spiritual practitioner, blending more than 25 years of high level corporate innovation and strategy experience with a deep knowledge of the world of Wu.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Rachel is making waves with the crystal hippie people with her fresh, pragmatic take on spiritual development.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Rachel is the host of the skeptical shaman podcast, the owner of Totem Readings, her Austin based spiritual practice, the author and publisher of Totem Tarot Deck and the purveyor of Totem Flower Essences on her Totem Readings Etsy Shop.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: She's also the author of the Totem Readings, substack, an engaging community that challenges preconceived notions of what it means to be spiritual.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Rachel is married to her chef husband, bradford, and they take care of their wolf dog and beautiful Austin, texas.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: In her spare time, she maintains her organic garden, researches micro dosing and writes all about the mystical and esoteric.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: This conversation was incredible and the event that Rachel was talking about on this podcast she invited me to and I went down in Austin.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: This was, oh my gosh, I think it was September or August.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: This was, yeah, I think September, maybe October, I don't even know.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I think it was the fall, the equinox.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I believe this last half of the year has felt just wild and so interesting and time is just like a weird thing, but this conversation was amazing.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Rachel herself is amazing and she's so interesting and I love her authenticity, just like being herself, her shamanic practices.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: She was really just a breath of fresh air and she opened up a way of thinking.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like for myself, maybe almost like a permission slip, that leaning into the shadow work is absolutely necessary, because I feel like since July I've really been doing a lot of the heavy shadow work and not to like search for it and do it, but just witnessing what's been coming up and moving through what's been coming up.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And it's been really interesting journey since I have been learning, studying, learning more about the cabala recently, and it's been absolutely fascinating.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: So much of that has been helping me move through a lot of what's been coming up.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: And last night so I'm recording this on Wednesday, last night, tuesday, was the full moon in cancer and Rachel is a cancer, so how perfect that this episode is coming out today and I realized full moons are a time to release and shed what's not working, and I realized there is still a part of me that is not stepping into my authentic voice, and so I've set some words for 2024.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: So, for 2023, my word was community and I manifested that in a big way, and so this year I'm choosing three words because I just couldn't pick one, because these three like keep coming up for me.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: But it's ease, authenticity and expression, self expression and that's using my voice in an authentic, easeful way.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I think they all go hand in hand and it's really important for my own personal development and what I've been moving through.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: But this came up last night I was doing meditation and the question of what are the themes and all of your relationships right now that you're struggling with.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: And it came back to this one theme of not setting boundaries.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: And this has been a struggle for a long time.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I've gotten a lot better at it, but there's still part of me sometimes that I have a south node in Libra and, of course, the collective south node right now is in Libra as well, and so a lot of that has been coming up.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: It's really been showing me a big way like what I need to shed and what I need to release and how I need to step into like my true, magnetic, like authentic self.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And that comes through setting boundaries, of asking for what I want, because I think a lot of times I expect people to know or I want people to understand what I want, or sometimes I'll express things in a sarcastic, playful, like passive, aggressive way, but it's about clear communication, stating what I need, and I think it's so easy for the mind to get in the way of well, are you, do you actually need this?
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Are you being difficult?
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Is this trauma based?
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: And it's just all bullshit.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: The mind is like all bullshit, and the one thing that I was listening to the cabal recently or this past week and something that was said was that emotions are all lies.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Don't ever trust your emotions.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: And as an emotional authority, I was like what?
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: That kind of triggered me a little bit, because I think emotions are everything.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: But also there is truth in that, as I sat and thought about it.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: There is truth in that because with the emotional wave, we have to understand that when we're in a low, what we're experiencing is a piece of information to come through, but it is not our truth.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: And when we're in a high, it is also a piece of information that we need to bring through, but that is not our truth.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: It's when we can come to this neutral space, and that neutral space is more the space of the higher self.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: So when we can come to that space and not get taken away in the low and not get taken away of the high and calling bullshit on both, and understanding that it's just a phase, it's just a wave, this two shall pass, and not get wrapped up in it, and then coming back to that neutral space, that's where the magic is.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: And when you're in that neutral space, I feel like that's where you can really come back to yourself and you can really receive the messages and you can really kind of tap into that like love, that that space where your truth lies, but it really comes in waiting throughout the wave and not taking action in the low and not taking action in the high right and letting that sit.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: So after I thought about it, after I was like triggered in the beginning, I was like no, but emotions are spirit speaking through you and and I do believe there is value in our emotions we came my room but of course, just went off right now.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: But we came to this human, physical vessel to experience pleasure and emotions.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: That is what it is.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: So if we didn't want to experience these things, we would not be in human form, we would be a soul floating off in the ethers and doing whatever right.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: But we came here to experience that.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: And so I think, although we may say that emotions aren't our truth, we are here to move through them, because when we are triggered emotionally and we're experiencing an emotion, it is showing us what needs to be healed, it is showing us what needs to be worked on, it is showing us, it is bringing lessons to us to move through in order to reach the next level of our consciousness right, and I think a lot is coming up right now.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I know I've experienced a lot, I've witnessed a lot, I'm moving through a lot and it feels really big right now because all of it's coming up and I think what's so beautiful about the way that Rachel teaches which I align with in this coming to your authenticity on your own and coming to your own knowing and not telling you how to be right.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: And I think that's where human design and astrology is beautiful, because it shows you where you have been conditioned.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: But of course, there's all sorts of all of your experiences dictate or not dictate.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: All of your experiences affect how that can manifest for you right.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: So if you have an undefined G center, you're not necessarily always going to be walking around like who am I, who am I Right, but that could be a piece of it.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Depends on how you were raised and the conditioning that you experienced.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Say all that, to say that you know Rachel, is very much not.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: It's not spiritual bypassing, it is facing your deep shadows.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: That is facing the discomfort and sitting with that, because that's where it's uncomfortable.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: But that's also where the magic is, and I spent years just trying to think positive and be happy, and every time I was in a low, I just felt like I wasn't healing and I wasn't moving forward.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: But it really is in those places where we can witness our shadows, where we can witness our trauma, where we can witness the things that really need to move through.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Like every single time now that I do not use my voice, it feels so uncomfortable and there's a part where I'm like I'm not healing, I'm not moving forward.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: But I get to witness that like okay, wow, this time I still didn't use my voice, but now I know better.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Next time can I pause?
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Can I breathe?
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: What needs to be said?
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Can I approach that from a more neutral space?
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Can I say the thing that I need to say?
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Next time, can I speak up?
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Can I ask for my needs?
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: How can I do this?
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: And it's not to say you may, you're going to experience the same things over and over.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: If you don't take that action step right and in TBM work it's expanding, unblocking.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: No, it's unblocking, yeah, expanding expanders and aligned action and you cannot manifest, you cannot heal, you cannot grow unless you're taking that aligned action piece.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: And I think that's, a lot of times the most challenging thing to do.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I was listening to manifestation babe podcast, like last week I think, and she was talking about going live on Facebook and how she started and how she was so nervous to do it.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: And just it's taking that action piece by piece, like every single week, every single day.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: She would continually show up, even though she was anxious, even though she would just like nervous to do it.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: It's that rewires your subconscious in a very powerful way when you do the thing anyway.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And so all that to say that do the thing, work through it, face the shadows, sit with the shadows, don't try and avoid them, don't try and minimize them, because they're going to keep coming up right.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: And I think one lesson that I've gotten from the cabala is this pause, what a pleasure, right, this is what he talks about.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Pause, what a pleasure in any situation.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: And I've been just like saying that over and over every time I feel discomfort.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, pause, I am so excited that I get to do this right, even though it might sound sarcastic.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: But just like the fact of that and putting a smile on my face, I'm like, okay, this is showing me something that I can work through, this is showing me a way that I need to heal.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: This is showing me what I still need to heal and it's been really helpful in moving through that shadow and knowing that it's not like my truth and it's going to pass, and all the things that I can journal on, I can meditate on it, but it's just been really helpful as I move through that.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: So this episode was so, so good.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I do have Rachel's tarot deck.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: It is like brutally honest and the very first card I pulled I was like, oh, so true.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: So if you don't have her tarot deck like the link is down below go grab it.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: It is amazing.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I also have have like five of her her flower essences.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: This is something I've been doing a lot lately as I'm studying astral herbalism and I'm making teas and tinctures and like all sorts of things.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Go grab hers.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: They're on Etsy.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: They're amazing.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: The skeptical Shaman podcast that's going to be linked below as well.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Go listen to it.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: She's just again.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Just, I loved this conversation.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I loved the relationship that we've sort of like grown a little bit.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: She also did a tarot reading on me last month and it was literally spot on.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: So if you are looking for something supportive in the new year.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Check her out.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: All the information you need is down below.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Follow her on Instagram.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: All the things you can find me on Instagram at rachelchristian.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: That's R-O-C-H-E-L-L-E, c-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-e.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: That's Instagram.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Tiktok is the same Website is rachelchristiancom.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: One-on-one sessions for human design.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: One-off one-on-one sessions.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Human design astrology is available for books that are open for the new year.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: If you book between now and January 1st, you're going to get a free 30 minute follow up, so that can be like just another mini session.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: If you have a question, like a burning question, that you didn't feel like you got answered, or that came up after the session because you will always get the recording, any notes, I take all that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: And then three month container is also available and, as we talk about in here, I just it's all about empowering you and I think sometimes we need support just to move through the things that we need to move through and that subconscious reprogramming piece, journaling, like all the things, and so that's what that three month container is.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: We're going to be moving through human design, your conditioning, starting the deconditioning process, just supporting you in any way that you feel, because for me, it's empowering you to come to your truth and you're knowing, and I'm not going to tell you what that is for you.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: We're going to discover it together.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Do some subconscious reprogramming, make affirmations, auto suggestions, all the things.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: It's a really, really beautiful container, and so those are the big ways you can work with me in 2024.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: We also have the reset and embrace membership that is starting in January.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: So, again, everything you need is down the show notes and, if you love this podcast, rate, review, subscribe, share with a friend.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: It really really does help.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Spotify, it's just that five stars click it and that is it, and I will catch you next week.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Well, welcome to the podcast.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Today I have Rachel White, who is the host of the Skeptical Shaman podcast, creator of Totemterro Deck, and you transitioned from corporate into the Wu and so I would definitely.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: We were just starting to talk online or offline about toxic positivity and shamanism and I definitely want to have that conversation on here because I think it's so powerful and, like you were saying, it's just a harder sell to like actually do the dirty work.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: It's so much easier to sort of like skip over and bypass.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: But just to start, I will if you want to share your story and just sort of like how you made that transition from corporate into like the spiritual and specifically like shaman work and you know anything like pivotal on the way that that kind of created that and got you where you are.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Well, when I was 26, I was getting divorced.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I was married for less than six months and the divorce took literally the exact to the day length of time the marriage lasted and it was just one of those moments where I wasn't feeling good.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, professionally, I've always been a hard worker.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I've always done well, I worked, put myself through college, so that was not an issue.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I think personal things like finding where I belonged, being spiritually inquisitive, skeptical, always made me feel on the outside.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: So the divorce was the impetus of friend of mine who we met because we were both fans of Buffy the vampire slayer.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I know when you look back and you remember those details, you're like what even was that Right?
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: And my life said you know, I have this friend, jr, who's a shaman.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: You should go see him.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And you know I've always been curious but skeptical.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I always trust myself and weird things.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: So I was like, fine, I'll go, like what's the harm?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: It'll be fine.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And it was amazing.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: And the minute I noticed it physically working in ways, that it shouldn't have meaning, like he would leave me on the table and I would feel and hear people in the room and be like almost upset, like who did JR invite over?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Like I'm sitting here getting energy, work, open eyes, and there's, he's not even in the room and I'm not inclined to sort of believe nonsense.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: So for me it was the beginning of a lot of interesting questions and I started pursuing it, went to workshops, trainings, like all kinds of stuff, and started totem, which is my spiritual practice while I was still working in corporate real estate at a fairly high level.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: So you know my business is almost 15 years old but I did it off the side of my desk.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: So it's when normal people you know from downtown Chicago, everyone on the weekends would go out and drink, like brunch was, like you know, a sport, and I just I never enjoyed those things that much and I would just do readings for people.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I'd read tarot cards since I was a little kid, you know, gave it up in college and sort of got.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: You know I was a smug atheist and all that shit.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: You read EG and everything and you think you know everything but brought all that back and just learned, learned on the job, practicing it, incubating it, and then three years ago, like March of 2020, I transitioned to this work full time and I'm glad I took my time for a few ethical and pragmatic reasons.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: One is I don't tell clients to come back all the time.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Really, you know, a reading with me, you can do other stuff with me, but like a tarot reading, as an example, is good for roughly a year.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: There's some vacillation in the timing client to client, but I don't want to see you again for the same thing every week or every month.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: It's the same data.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: It's it's weird to take your money for that over and over again.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: So you have to build a huge client base to do that properly.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I think we're not rotating the same people or getting weird.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Like even subconsciously, I didn't want there to be a temptation like, well, you know what you need next, right, because there's so many stories in big cities of people who are told by fortune tellers they have a curse or blockage.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: You've got to come back and that upsell thing.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Some like paranoid about ever slipping into anything like that.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: And yeah, this is the work I do know and it it changes all the time, which is something I love about it.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Like I published Taradek, I make flower essences, whatever I get curious about.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I studied herbalism.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: You get certified.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: You can sort of incorporate it into what you do, and the reason, you know, it's funny people.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: We're having a big party here next week in person.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I've got friends flying in fire, vedic practitioners, astrologers they're gonna do services for people and someone's like man.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: You are such a light worker and I go.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Nope, no, that's not shamanism, right?
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: You know you must feel so good healing people.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I go.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: I don't heal anybody, and so we were joking before you hit record that it's a hard sell.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Real shamanism, being honest, and in the Instagram saturated world of Wu that we live in right now, yeah, yeah, and I think the beginning of the healing journey is always that I know.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: for me personally it was sort of trying to skip over the dark stuff, right, and just be like oh, I just wanted all to be happy like right now, right.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: But as it goes, like I've been on my path for about seven years now and it's just gotten to the point where it's like now when the lows hit, I almost get excited about it.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, what?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: do I heal now what's going to be shown to me and although it's like deeply uncomfortable, it's also really beautiful at the same time and I think like having that.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: That's where the real shifts have been coming for me over the last couple of years.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I'm actually like sitting in that and not trying to like force it to stop or shift it.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I had a client last week pulled, you know, she did a card reading and I'm working with her on this, since she pulled the 10 of swords card as the outcome card, which is never good news for anybody Anyone who's familiar with Terri.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: You're like, come on, right, we were doing so, good, hero spread.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And she said so I pulled another card and I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: You know, cause she's like what does this mean?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I go, you know what it means, but you know, especially with that card, what it is is the actual energetic watershed of feeling, the release, the death, the grief, the cleaving away of things that have long ago died, and you can understand them cerebrally.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: But then there's this energetic moment, right, and so we talked about it.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: She goes, you know, and I felt really stuck and weird and bad.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: And then I worked through it and I said and that's the I said, you just gave yourself such a gift, you sat in it, you didn't like it.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: But every time that comes up, you've done the thing where you get excited now, cause you're like, all right, this sucks, but there's gonna be a nugget of gold in this If I can integrate it and transmute it and just sometimes just sit in the mug and not try and busy yourself or lie to yourself or distract yourself, like sometimes all you have to do is allow it and our culture.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: We're really addicted to just only the ups and never the downs.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: It's a perpetual summer, emotionally, economically.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: There's never a moment to let the field go fallow, to have a winter, to experience grief, you know, not always just over death or just like letting some of those other things happen.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: We treat them like they're toxic.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just thinking yesterday in the car.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I was like man, like how fucking complex, like love in itself is right, like nowadays, it's like.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: It's like I think love is the most beautiful thing ever, but it also is so painful and so complicated and so confusing and so all these things like maybe like more so, relationship dynamics, like loving itself is pure, but like there's all these things right, and it's like to I don't know like, and I will say like I still like have those moments when I'm in a low where I can definitely feel like victim and like the and cry and like move through all those things.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Then it's like you said, witnessing and allowing it and not attaching to the ideas and programming that's going on right.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: It's like just seeing it and be like okay, this is just like my mind and you know, but it is there's.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: We're like, we're so dynamic and I don't think you can have one without the other.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: It just goes on and on.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: No, and I also think there's something dishonest about spiritual bypassing, like it's literally just it registers as a lie.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: And the other day I was having a real moment, just cause, when you run a small business and you know, and you bust your ass and you're coordinating all these things, doing all this stuff, and I just was having a moment and my husband's like are you okay?
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I was like I'm just I'm having a pity party, I'm having a pity party for myself and sometimes just acknowledging the reality of that and not judging it, not being like and that's good or that's bad, but I just am, I find myself in this and you'll say the words and it's almost like a little bit of an exorcism, and you hear them and you're like, yeah, I'm feeling sorry for myself and sometimes you need to do that, but also like knowing what it is instead of being in denial, trying to run away from it, just being like, yeah, I'm having a goddamn pity party, right, and that's okay.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: And then you, and then it like you can just shed it very quickly if you do that work and you know it's interesting I get I get a lot of cult survivors and whistleblowers as clients, for a variety of reasons that I won't exhaust you with because they're going to sound salesy.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: But it's like I took a certain pledge, like there's a sticker on my website and all this stuff and cause.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I grew up with malignant narcissism in my family and so I just share their kind of like there's bullshit over there, sort of thing, like I've always had that.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: And when you talk to them they they're all over the place with like how much of this did I invite in?
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Like am I, am I to blame?
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Should I punish myself or did other people do it?
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: But I don't want to be a victim.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: But also, it sucked and and I think what you're talking about with relationships, especially breakups, there's so much of that Like what do I even feel?
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Our society, I and I this is where I start sounding paranoid, like I have to go get my tinfoil hat out of the other room or something.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: But it seems, if you just look at it, you know the purpose of a system is what it does is to disconnect people from their own intuition and get them out of alignment with their emotions.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: It's why I love the topic.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: The narrative theme of your podcast so much, by the way, is no, we know these things you just get.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Something muddies the waters and the more you can connect with like you know what.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: This is just inappropriate, or yeah, maybe my emotions are ugly right now, but I'm a human being, like it's okay and it's not become a sociopath and then find that middle path.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: It's the key to everything it really is.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so much of what I teach, like it's just coming back to that space in yourself and like trusting your own body, regardless of like what anybody else is saying, because it's like we just like.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I did it for most of my life, for 30 years I outsourced what I felt or thought or did to other people because I thought that that's the way that I was gonna be seen and accepted.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And I was miserable, like I hit an absolute rock bottom at 30, 31, right, and so I just try and, yeah, support people in like finding that and trusting that in themselves, because it's funny you say outsource, because I regularly I drive my clients crazy when I say it's a hard sell.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I sell against myself all the time.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: When they're like well, what do you think?
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I go, no, no, no, you're not gonna outsource your thinking.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: And so what do you think?
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Like, let's get into it, cause, by the way, you're probably right.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You're probably more right than I am about this You're closer to it and I joke with people like I am not a spiritual vending machine, like you don't get to put your money in and press a button and get an answer.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: You know the what was the machine from the movie big with Tom Hanks, or it was like the fortune teller mannequin thing.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: It was very creepy.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not a magic a-fall and you shouldn't want that.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: And what you just explained is why I do that, which is way more arduous, right For everybody involved, but it's better for them.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: And I'm not worried about going out of business because I'm empowering someone Like there's always new stuff to do and I don't care.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like best case scenario.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: You never need to see me again, congratulations all the best right?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the goal right, and I think if you're coming from your authenticity and integrity and like sticking to that, you're always going to be attracting more.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And that's the difference in the famine feast sort of mindset and I found I don't know if you've noticed this a lot of that woo coaching space, super famine, like you know, there's this I'm offering this price just for today, and if you don't invest in this retreat, I'm doing it's because you don't invest in yourself, like conflating spending money with them with caring about yourself and driving this urgency poking at latent pain.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: And I had a conversation with a gentleman.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: His name's Terrell Cherry.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: He has a podcast it's called Magic Meets Mind.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: He's great, and he said he was interacting with this people who were trying to teach him how to convince people to put things on multiple credit cards if they had to.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And I go, you know what that's called Like that's a Ponzi scheme.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: It's in there, trust me, cause it's there's no focus on brand value or long-term business reputation.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: It's like just converting, just to just get them in.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: And that's to me it's like then why do this work?
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I come from corporate real estate.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: There's plenty of industries you can go be a demon in and you'll be rewarded.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: And it's honest, everybody knows you're a demon and it's not.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: You know, sully anger, sort of blaspheming this space, which I would hope has some more ethical direction to it, right.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's always been my thing, I think, with selling and coaching and running programs is that I just I don't.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I guess I feel like gross with that sort of the way you're supposed to sell right.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Like if somebody's having a conversation with me and it doesn't feel right, I'm not gonna try and convince them that it is right for them.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like maybe it's not right right now, maybe it's right in another time.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Like I know, like the power of like what I can, what's coming through me and like these programs, but I'm not gonna like force anybody in it or like try to convince them.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: In corporate and very high levels.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: We're talking, you know, deals that are hundreds of millions of dollars, multi-year effect, hundreds of employees, kind of a thing.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: They don't sell like that.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: They literally go and meet the client.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: They go.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: What do you need?
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: What are you thinking?
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Where are your problem areas?
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: So, to encounter, like leaving that environment to come into this, I would you know briefly, was in a mastermind and they were, like you know, my salesman, like nobody says stuff like that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Like real grownups who are in large businesses do not speak that way.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: They go to dinner with their clients.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: These people are their peers and equals, it's.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: You know there's a lot of other shenanigans going on, right, but like that dynamic, isn't this like strong arming?
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I've never in my career, my corporate career, ever seen that it's like an understanding of I need to play a pool and be a grownup, cause this is a human being and this industry is small and we're going to be at this a long time.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: You know, like your reputation sort of holds a certain weight and that's how I behave with Totem.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: So the point where, like, I'll have clients who reach out, who want to do I do a spiritual transformation coaching program and they want to do it and they'll tell me like where they're at in their life and I'm like it is not the time to do this.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: We are not doing this.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: You would be irresponsible.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: You would not get a lot out of it.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Like your mid-divorce, or you just got sober a month ago, like you've got plenty on your plate or, for that matter, you got out of a high control group or a traumatic, abusive course of control relationship.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: You don't need me in your ear driving you and telling you what to do and think you need a break.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: You need to go do dumb stuff for a while.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Go to the beach, you know.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Go buy yourself a pair of shoes instead of giving me that money right now.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: And some of them come back around.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: They're like you know what you're right and now is the time and I'm like good, because I want to enjoy it.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do like.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: It's not rote, it's quite dynamic and collaborative.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: There's an alchemy and that's what gets me out of bed in the morning.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: You know, when I was in corporate, I worked on a global innovation program and I like new, exciting things.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: So to do that like, I need everybody to be like at their best too, as clients and collaborators.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are you familiar with human design?
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I am.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, no, because I was saying Is that the?
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: One where I'm a hermit opportunist.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, two for your two for sake role, manifesting generator, but just like as you're describing.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: So the manifesting generator part, right, so multi-talented, multi-passionate, like all these different things, right, it's like as you're talking about the different things that you have and the thing, you know, what you said you're hosting next week with all the different, it's just so like MG energy, right, so just like, have all those different things in there.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: And yeah, two for I mean that's all about connections and networks and then and you know, the hermitting, of course, is part of it but two, four is like the most social people, like my son is a two for and he's like he is like on, but then like he'll randomly Then off.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll go to his room and I'm like you, okay, it goes.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just want to be in here and like I won't hear a pee from him for hours.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool, we're very confusing to people in corporate environments because they'll see us and they confuse.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Like us being engaged in a meeting with natural extroversion, or that we like attention.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: We don't like, we just have something to say, yeah, or we're trying to get something done, like it's not about what it's about.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and what I do allows me to go to hermit mode too, and I actually just wrote about this.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: The Virgo new moon.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I've been dragging ass all week.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I'm usually a high energy person, active, I eat well, and it's like I don't know what's going on with me and everyone feels this way.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: And I wrote on sub stack about the Persephone archetype because in my pterodacty we made the hermit card into Persephone and you know, young wrote in.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Carl Young wrote in one of his books about how Demeter, persephone's mother, is the archetype of the devouring mother, the perpetual summer, agriculture, commerce, work and that Persephone and individuated like there was this huge act of rebellion and I really think all of us right now, especially with a Virgo, you know September and number nine, hermit card, kind of new moon, it was like a call to action to me.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: But all my clients wrote to me and I was like let's be seditionists right now in society and raise, hoist the black flag and like turn off our computers, it's enough, cook ourselves a meal and like slow down because I need that more right now than I've needed it in a very long time.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: And even this coming week I've got this big event.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: People are coming.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: My husband, who's the chef, is going to cook some food.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: We're going to have, you know, drinks, alcoholic, non-alcoholic.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Have a little party here in Austin, texas.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm not doing any client sessions next week.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I know.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I don't have an infinite amount of whatever that is.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I people who do blow me away.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like keynote speakers that are touring, that are always like on a camera.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like how do you, how do you do that without just drinking human blood?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Like what is the secret?
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: I this summer has been the most I've like, because I'm usually on like all the time I go, go, go, like single mom.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I have, you know, my, my full-time job.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Then I've podcasted my coaching, like all this stuff.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: And so this past summer my kids were gone for like two weeks two weeks, which is the longest I've been away from them since in like 14 years.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: It was wild, but I literally did like nothing.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I blocked off my entire schedule from podcasting like everything.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Like I edited podcasts and I put them out.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: But other than that, like I did everything I don't normally do I watch TV, I relax, I read books, I quit drinking a year ago, so like that wasn't part of.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: But like I just like indulged in like, whatever Like, and it was like I could just feel like I needed it so badly because I've just been overworking myself and I think when you get into that mentality, it's like you're pushing so hard at something and you're keeping it away by being like that.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: But it's interesting you talk about like the Virgo New Moon because, like the last August for me, I was, was so low and this new moon for some reason, like brought all back my creativity and like everything.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: It's in my second house of like self-worth, so I don't in material resources, so I don't know if it's just because of like that that it's like let's get going again, but it's like it's been really interesting.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: But I've just like, yeah, the last, like August, was really challenging, but I feel like this summer, with everything, it's been challenging for a lot of people.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: There's like a lot of shifts, yeah, Well, I think COVID did more damage than people realize Just what happened culturally, politically, economically, etc.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Right, my husband and I moved to another state.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I had to reconfigure my business and you know there was a lot of pushing.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: And then corporations you know, I just post about this on LinkedIn because this guy pissed me off so bad.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: He's in real estate and he's like, you know, these workers.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: They have a real attitude about work and we have to kill that attitude.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Like he was basically calling for corporations to put their boot on the throat of the workers.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Right, and I think people are living that and feeling that, even if they're not saying the quiet part out loud all the time.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I've never known people to work more, to be more drained financially, energetically, like just clients.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: When I talk to them it is there's very little like latent hope, like they have to sort of develop their own hope or like get in the solution.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: It's not just this, like everything's going to be OK.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Bye, betty Moore.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: All of those things have like you have browser windows open on all of that with your energy, body All the effing time.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: And it kids right now what they're dealing with.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I can't even imagine being a parent in the time of social media, because it used to be.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: If someone was mean at school like you, would go home and you got some relief right, or if there was pressure or heartache.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Even you know, like some boy you liked you saw him holding hands near the lockers with somebody else or something Like you know it's oppressive and that's part of that enmeshment with Demeter.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: You know the devouring mother, those umbilical cords, those energetic cords, like even if you're not producing at work, you're expected, like especially if you have a business or podcast to produce content, produce content Me.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: You know it's this commodity.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Now your extroversion, your face time, and it's like, yeah, but what am I saying and why am I saying it?
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Like, let's take a time out and restart.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I don't do shit pardon my French on podcasts or social media unless I have something to say.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I don't do this event for any other reason than I wanted to do an event for, frankly, what's called Maybon, which is the equinox, and I was having friends in town and in order to help them pay for their flights to come here for that weekend.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: They're doing services and I'm throwing a party.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to see my clients, you know, have some like there's a, so what driving it?
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: We just know we're being measured on either what we're consuming or what we're producing, and it informs everything and it takes a lot of discipline to go.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I'm going to read a book today.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: How about?
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: that, yeah, yeah, and it really feels like the astrology, like the transits and everything is really reflective of what we're experiencing Pluto and Capricorn, and then Saturn and Pisces and, like, as I was reading through your website and everything that you do, it just feels very like Saturn and Pisces, right when it's like we want to like the business and the Wu, like combined together to like make it work.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just very much like what we're.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I think I've been feeling that where it's.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: You know, I think, like in the spiritual world, it's so easy to be like, oh, just like, really fluid in letting things happen, and I think there's an element of like we do have to show up and we do have to put structures in and we do have to do this while also not being, like you know, whack or like whatever about it.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: So it's just kind of like these lessons that are coming in around how we in, like the spiritual community, are now presenting our business, if I had a dollar for every friend.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: That was like it's OK, because, like I'm going to slip timelines, or you know, like all this, like well, you know the Pleiadians are going to come and they're going to take me in islands of light.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I'm like cool, but you need a website.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like to do what you're taught Like.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I have this real habit of for is unorthodox and heterodox as I am and I always was incorporate to like every.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: By the way, ceos would be like call me the witch, sometimes pejoratively, but I didn't care.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I thought it was funny.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Right, I've never been quote normal, but I do think there is a meditation and a value to material reality.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I think we're here for a reason and I think part of the task.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: This is a lot like the spiritual bypassing thing.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: There's a reality bypassing button and in order to anchor all these things in your life and make them real enough to enjoy the woo, you have to put some things in place.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: And also, like I just think it's so easy.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: You know there was a Scientology book written by a Scientology survivor I forgot his name, he's Australian but it was called Sell them a Piece of Blue Sky and it's a direct quote from Alaron Hubbard where he said when you see that big blue sky over there, we're going to sell people a piece of it.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: It's so easy to sell something amorphous that doesn't exist that there's no pressure for it to be operational, actionable.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: You'll never be measured because it can't be measured.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: So, as a practitioner, I like to have a practice where there's performance metrics.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: They're not like I don't share my financials or anything, but it's my business.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: But, like you know, is your life getting better?
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: What have you put into practice?
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Like what's one nugget you took from your reading that, like, you brought to your relationship, to your friendships, to your work and the big, big work, like the turning the battleship around work is how do you get all these disparate characters you play masks and costumes, you wear all these different things you do integrated into one thing.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: That's the biggest thing clients come to me to work on is I do this job.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: It pays my bills.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I hate it, I don't identify with it, it has nothing to do with me.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I know I'm contributing to these things that I don't like.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: You know transhumanist agendas, stuff.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Truly, a lot of my clients are very high functioning people in tech jobs and they're like I don't like this, but you know, I need to build my life after my bug out bag or I need to figure these things out and that's a multi year process.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of it's like the devils and the details.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I'm working with coaching clients now and they're psychic and I go with the psychic parts, easy parts, the fun part.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: It's a refreshing part for me.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: It actually grounds me.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: The messy part is like how do you organize a business?
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: How do you organize a client session?
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: How do you start it?
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: How do you end it?
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: How do you manage follow up?
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: How do you manage scheduling?
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Getting that ironed out allows you to just be in the flow more.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you teach psychic skills?
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I do, but the funny thing is I teach it mainly to people who already have quite a bit of ability.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: So you know it's to say teaching.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: It's like it feels funny.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: I always tell people I have like exercises and mechanisms to help them realize what kind of psychic they are, because I think a lot of people think it's going to look a certain way and everyone's very different.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: So, like the coaching work I do, there's no group work, there's nothing at scale, it's all individual work.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: How would I do that at scale with people the way I'm?
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Because it's like are you Claire audience?
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Are you heart chakra dominant?
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Like what are these permutations of things?
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: How are they manifesting for you?
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: And also as a human being, because I care about them.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Like just because you're good at something doesn't mean it's good for you, so let's figure out how to organize this.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: So you're doing the work, but it's not devouring you, right?
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: And there's still like what parts of your psychic practice do you want to keep for you that are special for you, that you don't give to other people, you don't sell to the marketplace?
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons why you'll never see me on Instagram with my husband at dinner, because, god damn it, that's dinner, man, that's a break, that's me time.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Like part of the relief of it is I just get to be a human, having a human experience, right.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I teach like online workshops.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: I'm working collaborating with this new company called Firelight.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: We're going to build courses out that I've taught live in person and stuff.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: But more than anything, it's like you do this already.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: But here's how you put in reps, here's how you develop, you know, muscle memory, kind of with these ephemeral feelings, and then some of it, especially interacting with people, is a perishable skill.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Boundaries is, I think, a perishable skill, like knife skills and chef work, like if it's been a while you're like oh shit, that's right, I forgot about leave, taking gestures because I have another appointment.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I got to keep it moving.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's huge.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely I feel like I worked with someone over the last couple of years, for because I think, like, like you said, people have this image of like what psychic abilities are Right and I always thought, like I had to see ghosts in my childhood or like this, that the other thing Right.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: But, like, for me, I've come to realize over the last two years mine is like highly feeling right, and it's just like I set like a camera, what is called as clear cognizance, right.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a feeling when.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I feel everything right, but then it comes down to like discerning what that actually means.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: So then I have to like tap in and understand what I'm saying and then understand all that and then, and I feel like I also receive, like through astrology right, and it's like that to me, is super intuitive and I can see things and like understand things, and but it's just, it's so interesting when, because I did programs before, it was like teaching me psychic skills, yeah, until I worked with somebody who was just like, let me run it Right, and then we could then discover that way that was like powerful or it's like we all have it.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: It's more of a remembering.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: And in my experience, we learn the most when we're practicing.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And so it's the thing my clients are the most uncomfortable with.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: But I go, listen, number one, they start with me.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: You'll never have a better client than me.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Number one, you're paying me.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Like I'm a captive audience, so I'm not paying you, so there's no pressure.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Also, like I do this every day, no one's going to be cooler and more understanding.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: I have a loud energy body.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: My guides are very like this will be easy, right, and I'm invested in giving you really affirming feedback, like not blowing smoke, but like I'm invested in this being positive.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: And then from there I'll curate thoughtfully like people who have very complimentary skills, who would understand, like someone who's feeling and good at astrology.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: If you were my client, I'd match you up with somebody like that.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: You know, even if they're not a client, I'll find this person so that you build this happy Pavlovian thing where, like it's positive and you feel confident and you can do it, because a lot of psychic work and I'm sure you found this the more confidence you have and the more joyful you are when you do it, the better it seems to go Right and so skills improve, not because you're developing new skills and like Hogwarts, but because you're more in flow with your own natural shit.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: Anyway, yeah, yeah.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: And that continual practice every day of like that, trusting, trusting that and trusting what's coming up, because that's it's so easy for our mind to just be like, no, you know, and it's like, okay, let's follow the feeling instead of what the mind is actually saying.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: It's funny because I'll have clients when I'm reading tarot cards and they go.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Well, that doesn't make any sense to me.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: I go because it's in the future and it hasn't manifested yet.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: And if you knew everything that was going to happen in the future, why would you come to do a session with me?
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like this gives us a peek through the veil.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: And if we had the ability to see everything and make it make sense in our embrassial minds all the time, we'd have no need for tarot cards.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: It would just be built in, right.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly so how was your journey to shamanism?
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Well, meeting JR and having a shaman, you know, and I've never met anyone who does what we do, who didn't go first encounter it when they were like broken Mine, wasn't even that dramatic.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: I have very close friends who were like their life, like parents died the same week, divorce, house and foreclosure, you know.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: So that wounded healer thing is a big part of shamanic work.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: So found JR and then just got insanely curious and started totem because honestly and I'm not saying this to sound nasty, but I went to every workshop, every certification I went to like shaman school, paid thousands and thousands of dollars and kind of came away feeling upset and bereft that I couldn't find a mentor.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Like I had really set the intention I want to find someone with whom I can learn right and like an apprenticeship or someone who's going to guide me.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: And I wasn't expecting there to be such a lack of that where I was living in Chicago at the time.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Like, even if they showed early promise, like they would come up to me in the middle of a class or something, when I'm, by the way, a paying student, be like, hey, I can't pay my rent this month, Can you help me out?
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Because I had a real job.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I was like what are we doing here?
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Like this is weird.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: So I started totem because I was like I'm going to have to learn by doing and I've met, by the way, everyone who's a practitioner of mine, so I'm their client.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: They came to me as clients.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: So I've actually found those mentors through totem and you know my friends that are coming to Austin next week.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: I consider them absolute peers and teachers to me, Like I learned things from them.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: So anyone else who's interested in this work, I would just say practice, practice, practice.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Do you learn so much more on the job?
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Meet people that you know might not think they're your mentor, because they probably are Right.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I just they're top down learning.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: It's not how this goes.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: It's more lateral, I've found that's been my experience.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Is it's more organic?
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: You can't really map it out, yeah, which is frustrating.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: What does like a shamanic experience with you look like?
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Well, shaman's come in all shapes and sizes.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: So with me, one thing is my psychic ability is going to be a little bit more physical and my personal psychic work is more physical.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: So if I have a big breakthrough, like I'll get a weird fever which for me is always euphoric, a shamanic illness, pass a kidney stone or something wild happens and I get, you know, a whole set of insights and things like that.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: That's my own little personal thing.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I don't do that around clients.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I don't pass a kidney stone so in front of them.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: But we could do like divination work or I do shamanic energy work or the coaching work is they all have one thing in common which is way showing so I don't you know I'm not here to heal you or make you feel good, or I'm here to you know, help you look at the map and help you understand that the map is not the terrain.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: And I like to democratize tools and techniques and like give people things to do, like hey, this showed up, you might want to consider this.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Never like my stuff either.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Most of the time, like if someone's dealing with the Remains energetically of a bad breakup, I'll be like take a salt bath every night for the next week.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: You can use absence, all you can use.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Table salt doesn't have to be, you know, blessed wicked.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: So people generally have these ideas.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Everything has to be super formal and simple, sustainable things that people can do.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: And also, like Shamanism is old, it's from every continent, every culture in the world.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: It all has these same things, so I Don't reinvent any of it.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: You know, we do totemann will work, we do ancestor work.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not creating anything new.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Even the flower essences.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: I make them the way they were made 4,000 years ago.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: They're in mason jars of grain alcohol in my closet right now.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, and then it's water and that's all that goes in that bottle and you know, like there's no new, I don't put a new spin on anything.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I joke with people that I'm a broker with spirit.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: My spirit guides get your spirit guides.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I facilitate a meeting and my biggest task is kind of get out of the way.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: I had a shamanic healing in Mexico.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Like, oh my gosh, when was it?
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Was like two years ago, maybe 2021.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, was two years ago, and I was honestly like really nervous for it.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Like I had like a mini panic attack when I like got in the room with the shaman, I was like, oh my gosh, what's gonna happen, was it?
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: a male or female shaman?
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: It was a female.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, that'll help.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: Sometimes when you go to like Mesoamerica, south America, you get that hardcore Dude, sean, they do not.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: If you think I'm harsh, you should go to Russia or Mexico.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I can imagine.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: No, it was definitely helpful that she was a female, but it was like, honestly, in my like, it was one of the most profound and I still feel like I'm feeling the effects of like what came up during that session and it was like the things like I've never really been a visual person, like I said, I feel, but like during that session I was seeing things, I was hearing things and I was like this is wild.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: And she was like after the session, she was telling me about the things that she saw and how it was literally what I saw and I was mind-blown.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: I was like this is like that's the format of every energy work session I do and people are blown away that that can happen.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll schedule the time they're in California or Portugal or wherever they are.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: I set up the energy work table as though I'm working on a person, but I enter a shamanic journey to the drumming music when I do the work and I take copious notes.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: We meet on zoom like afterwards to to cross-share and I'll I'll show them my notes.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: They're like that's exactly what I saw.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: It stimulates a lot of visual yes, symbols, animals, people, figures and the theory is that that's endogenous DMT getting released in the pineal gland and the drumming music we listen to when we enter a shamanic journey.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Meditation puts you in a theta wave state which is identical to a lucid dream, which are generally highly visual and you sort of feel in control.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: It's not scary, it's interspace versus astral projection, right?
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: So there's all kinds of things about it that make it work that science is now catching up to.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: And the other thing I'll say is you know, I microdose a little bit every day.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: I go through pulses with that and my friends that are coming in.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: We are gonna do plant medicine together.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: But shaman does not mean we give you drugs and we do drugs like yeah, I waited until a ripe old age before I did a hero's dose of psychedelics and I found it boring relative to shamanic meditative states.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd already access.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna ask about plant medicine, if that was part of your actual, like shamanic journey, because everything I've understood and read is that part of being a shaman is you have to like die right, like get to that space.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like a lot of times it's through plant medicine.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: I Don't leverage it when I work with clients.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: I like to be super clear and also, though I think I have a super high baseline level of endogenous DMT.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I've discovered that, like, my baseline consciousness is very trippy, like I'm good with that, and also I like, for energetic protection reasons, to maybe not be so out at the margins, so I like to save the fun drugs for me time like with friends and and and.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Part of being a shaman is doing that work for yourself To like.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: It's not just serving clients.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: If you're not checking in, doing your own stuff Of breaking yourself down, building yourself back up, you're not gonna be able to serve others.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: And you're, you're always evolving and so that work never.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: It never ends.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: You're never like that.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: It's never done.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: I don't sell or facilitate psychedelics with clients.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I live in Texas.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I was more asking for your personal practice.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: If that was part of your, like your, personal journey.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: I I'm super intentional about it and you can journey and trip out without it.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah and yeah and some it's.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: I actually, it's funny.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: I will get Very psychedelic experiences from other plant medicines, like flower essences.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: So when I I took like four grams of mushrooms on the winter solstice two years ago, my husband came out to check it on me.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: He's like, well, does it do anything?
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I mean, like you know, the tree has eyes, but the tree has eyes like every other.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Tuesday, right here, and I said you know it's funny because when I take orange glow, which is my nasturtium flower essence, it's way more euphoric.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Then the mushrooms and it connects you to the earth grid in a sort of similar but different way to Silasilvan right, like this connection to earth and living matter, and I was like we already have a house full of things that do this like you don't have to.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: I was like I don't have to go this deep and it was Totally a surprise because I was scared.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: I was like I hope I don't have a psychotic break and it was the opposite.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: I was like I came inside and watched Midsummer, yeah, all things like I was like yeah, let's get a movie running you up.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, and it's about pagans and mushrooms.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, I didn't know that before I started watching it, but I could have handled like you can handle a lot more in that moment, yeah and the other thing I'll say is you know, there are teas, herbal teas, that stimulate things that are way deeper than what you're gonna find with, like mushrooms.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Iowasca is different.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Iowasca will take you, yeah, to far deep places it will, but like blue water, lily, like blue water, lotus tea Ancient Egyptians would drink that to access the realm of the dead.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: I started drinking it as an experiment every night before bed and it's literally a blue flower, dehydrated.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: You put in teawater a little honey.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I had so many past life memories coming up like real time reels of them, yeah, that I had to take time off work to process it.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, and you're not.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: It's not a psychedelic in the true sense, it's.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: You're just drinking this tea and going to bed, but it's, it's deep, it works.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: There's a reason they painted that plant on every sarcophagus that they dig up in Egypt.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I like I have microdose.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: I started microdosing, I think, last year and I'm not incredible.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not super consistent with it, but for me I think in my journey it just helped me like move a lot of trauma, like having the, the, like clarity and sort of like the subconscious a little bit.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: But I did a meditation, maybe I don't know, six months ago and I was sitting in my living room and my kids were running around and I was like taken outside of myself in a way that like I've never experienced and I was completely sober.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: I was just in this meditative state.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Part of me was like there's a like.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, should I come back down because my kids were running around?
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: but I was so like Outside of my body and the take it with it yeah and it was it like I almost felt high, but I wasn't right and so I do, yeah like you said, the mushrooms decalcify your pineal gland.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: So does marijuana.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: So does, yeah, thc, chlorophyll, spirinella there's all kinds of interesting substances, anything you take for parasite cleanse, the oil of oregano, tincture of myrrh, black seed oil, boron, like there's all these things that the the less To try to see how on your pineal gland.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, even when you're sober, like now, you're rocking and rolling with your, your existing system.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: You don't need substances and I think that's why it was a bit of an anti-climax Doing all those mushrooms.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, oh, like, I think I'm weird.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Anyway, yeah, you know, like you don't have a different.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: You are until some points it out.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Right, wait a minute.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: You eat what for dinner every night Like somebody just yeah, yesterday they're like you know you're really weird.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: I was like I'm okay with that.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it is.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: It's why I'm exploring other states of consciousness is really valuable, because you learn a lot about your baseline.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: You learn a lot about yourself.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: I microdose, by the way, for PTSD as well.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: I have a complex PTSD diagnosis and one thing I noticed is I don't feel cumulative like Ambient anxiety, because I don't have like full-on anxiety or generalized anxiety disorder.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: But when you have PTSD, you have a very heightened vigilance, mm-hmm and like.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: My thing was, if there's a problem, I attack it like real quick.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: You know matter, even if it's like paperwork or something, and what micro dosing has given me is I don't feel like I'm starting at a deficit every day and I have to like survive.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: There's not that survival Thing that's around.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: I'm way more present.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you don't.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: You know this, but people don't know when you microdose it's not trippy at all, yeah, yeah it's just life.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I microdose psilocybin and THC and I've noticed, since I've incorporated the THC, like my anxiety is almost completely gone.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: It's it's literally night and day since I started doing that and, again, like I'm not sitting there getting so high, I'm like drilling on my couch right.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: It's like I get before bed and I meditate and I get in, you know, and then I go to bed and I wake up and I'm just you know and I'm good.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: And it's really changed a lot for me in the way that I've just like, like you said, been present with myself and I think that's why the lows I've been experiencing for the last month, I've been able to be really present with it and like almost be excited and witness it and all these things, because I I know that I'm safe, right and all the rest of me, sort of.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: I I out one of the flower essences I make.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: It's called a good buzz because I'm a smart ass.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: I can't help it.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: But it's it's, it's just happened.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: We didn't activate the CBD in it.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I make a tincture for myself where the CBD is activated.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: It's just hemp flower made just like all the other flower assets, and I had a client who's living in Europe.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: She goes no, you activated, I get high.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: I get high, I go let me.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Let me reframe that for you.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe you have inflammation and that inflammation makes you feel bad all the time and that's your baseline and Because it reduces inflammation and so if you reduce that, maybe you feeling high is actually how you would feel If you were perfectly healthy and didn't have these Inflammatory issues.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're so used to feeling bad that good feels altered or up and really it's just you just actually just feel good, yeah.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think learn what good feels like is important.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's a huge lesson, or that's a huge piece of like what I teach to, because a lot of my stuff comes to the body Right.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Health has always been a thing to study, holistic health, yeah.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: So I like really tell people, I think that, like what you just said, like we don't understand that our baseline is not the like I don't want to say the norm, but it's just like you don't have to have headaches every day, you don't have to be bloated every day, you don't have to be tired every day, like I, I'm 37, but there are people that are like around my age, that are just like chronically like in pain and things like that, and they're like, oh my gosh, what are you doing that you don't feel like that, like I feel like I'm still 20, you know, it's very rare that.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: I wake up with aches and pains, but I'm, I'm tending to myself in that way, and and so, yeah, I just think that's really important, that's I feel younger than I did in my 20s.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I had a hard life, kind of you know, not that other people don't, but I think, that was part of it, and as you remove negative stimuli, whether that's toxic relationships of family With your profession, you know, like I got out of a very fight-or-flight environment.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: I navigated it better than most, by the way, because I was like it's all fake, like I at least had that thing, yeah, but it took me years to come down from that and not have fire drill like Activations with things of my own business and stuff, and it's a.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: It's a long process, but sometimes you heal just by removing, yeah, the noise yeah, you know what I mean or the bad thing, like I'll have friends.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: They're like, well, I, just I have inflammation, I go.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Well, what are you eating?
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: You know, and I'm not like you, I'm not.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: I don't do any of the nutrition stuff mainly because my lawyer is like it's a nightmare in terms of liability.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Just stick to like tarot cards in this.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: I was like all right, sounds good, I am an herbalist, but I Couch it is.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: It's an intuitive service, um.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: But people like I'm like, sit down and look at what you're putting in yourself, what's in your environment, just start removing stuff and see how you feel really.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: But you have to tune in, you have to go slow enough or set aside a Moment of your day to check in, and like one of my big assignments for the Virgo Newman for me but I wrote it to my clients was like cook a meal for yourself and not a fast one.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Don't reheat something from Chater Joe's or you know what I mean.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Like, whatever you eat, whether you're vegetarian or I'm not, so for me it's like a roast chicken.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm, you can roast a chicken very easily in the oven.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: It's not complicated, right?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: And you know, maybe start a little stock for some, some risotto, rice, or like cook yourself a warm, warming, grounding meal.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: Light a candle place, put a place setting out for yourself, because you're a human being, not an animal Like, and it just changes all that energy and it's funny that'll.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: I got a note from a client last night.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: She did that.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: She was like turns out, I some, something got canceled and I can do this, and she said it was like trippy, like she accessed an altered through the conscious.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: I was like no, you're just in constant fight or flight.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I had somebody that I was talking to and they were saying that they like play.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: They like play video games and eat at the same time, and they just like hate it and I'm like, okay, you know it's like it's try eating and just eating.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Don't watch TV, don't play video games, don't be in the car.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: I'll put it on a plate so you can look at exactly and so they're eating, uh-huh, and they said to me last night.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: They're like oh, I did it and I ate, like, not like, not even that much.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Like I felt like I was full because you're not paying attention.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Right, like I, I try it, like I used to like eat in the car, I'm like my way home to get my kids and now I'm like, okay, even if it takes me an extra 10 minutes to sit down and eat my food, like I know I'm not gonna like just mindlessly be like shoving food in my mouth and then I'm just so much more in tune with my body and what it's feeling and it really really does make a difference and it doesn't take that much longer.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: You know it doesn't and but it doesn't have to.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: So my friend Colleen who's who's coming here this Um coming week is an Ayurvedic practitioner and she and I have talked a lot.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: We did a podcast episode together and she was in a mood too, because she was jet lagged.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: It was hilarious and we were just talking because, you know, she's working with people in a modern world that's addicted to the concept of convenience but it's not convenient and not just in a cute way, like because you're not healthy.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: You know she has to break down for them.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: You're actually spending more time going to McDonald's and it's actually costing you more money than if you just woke up and made the stewed fucking apples I told you to make with the cinnamon.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: It's an apple and you just cook it, you just warm it through.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are very few simpler things.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this weird Paradox in our society where people think things are convenient or easy and they're not.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: It's because it's been a long time since they did it the other way, they forgot, and it's like this self-perpetuating myth Of like, well, no, I need, I don't have five hours for dinner.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: It's like no one does.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: So it's madness.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, unless they're my husband, who's a chef, who's doing something, you know.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's definitely intricate, you know.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and then he's joyful and enjoying it.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: Like for Thanksgiving, every year we make a whole picking duck like a sechuan style duck, and, trust me, that's a whole process for him and then like sechuan fried rice with it, with the sechuan peppercorns, and we make a particular cocktail called the end of the road, which we joke is our apocalypse cocktail, and sit down, we have this whole meal.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: We'll watch like nope, or or get out, or you know, something like that and have a whole moment.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: But that's the activity of the day.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to do that every day.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Duck is a pain in the butt.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Just make chicken.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Make some vegetable, yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: I love chefs, though I love their I'm a Torah son and and so like for yeah.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: I like I'm going out to eat at this nice restaurant tonight.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited because I just like food Excites me so much, but I don't have the.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: I don't have the patience to like like an actual chef would.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: But I love how Passionate like chefs are about like what they create and it's just to me it's so beautiful.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I mean it's art.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: It truly is, yeah, of art.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Well, the irony too is, as Colleen was talking to me in that podcast episode, I realized she had everything in common with my husband and his point of view and it struck me like people have an idea of.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Ayurveda is like it's herbs, it's these oil massages, it's these things right, but really what it is in its essence is it's a very Italian and Japanese thing too, where it's you eat local Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: You eat in rhythm with the season where you're living.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: You eat things Like differently at different times of the day depending on the season, and it's this seasonal, farmed, a table attitude about life and, more than anything, it's behavioral.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: So Colleen's thinks she would, she would assign people had nothing to do with food.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: None of these quick tricks right away should be like 10 minutes a day.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: I want you to slow down and sit with yourself.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Hmm and you know I'm a fired douche, I forgot the name of it.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: She's gonna kill me.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: That's not good but thank you.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: And she's like in the afternoons you need to give yourself a sweet treat.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: And I was like I'm sorry, what is this madness?
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: Like my whole body had this reaction of like a doping work, you know, and I'm one of those people where I work and I don't eat and I feel I feel just fine.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: And and I wasn't even complaining to her she never just talking about like clients and stuff.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: She's like you need help, like I'm gonna help you.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: And so my husband made me Turkish delight, which is this old-school gelatin, rose water, pistachio thing, and Got me some loose chai tea and she's like well, it's still a fire drink, but I'll allow it because there's milk and sugar.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Like yeah loud is, and I do every afternoon.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: I give myself a sweet treat.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Now, and I think it's not about the sweet and it's not about the treat.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: It's about the like, slowing down and being like I'm a person.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, not an algorithm, not a machine, beast of burden.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I'm my own boss now.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: I've no excuses.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: There's no one Abusing me, I'm abusing me.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love that and like that's.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: I've tried to give up coffee here and there like throughout my life, but for me it's so much more of the ritual of it, like I love making it, I love sipping it while I'm journaling.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: It's just like.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: It's not just like I need to wake up, I need this.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like shoveling coffee down, like I actually genuinely like savour the entire experience of coffee me too and so if I give up on that, I'm like, no, I'm gonna keep my coffee, yeah, my cup in the morning, even if it's two cups, like it's fine.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna like shame myself about anymore because it's more of yeah presence with it.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Well, and in shamanism we're not like I always joke, I'm Reiki certified from top to bottom, all this stuff but we're not like the Reiki people, we're not like the, the other groups in this space, like a true shaman number one.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: We're not group people like cross-culturally shamans were socially Subversive, if not in verse right.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: And then the other thing is like we like a little bit of poison.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: We do, it's part of the psychedelic tradition, but more than that, like some in Mesoamerica they really on purpose get bit by poisonous snakes, insects, spiders, because they it would transmute into medicine in their system.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: And for me, you know, I like a little bit of alcohol, yeah, and you should see people's reaction to me being like I'm gonna go have a mezcal, yeah, the restaurant tonight, and they're like well, you know, that's, that's not good for your energy body and that I'm like it's not good for your energy.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I like a little bit of poison and I think because it's more integrated for me.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: You'll know I like I never went out in part eight.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: I hate going to bars, I hate noise.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: You know I'm an introvert, but if I'm at dinner I allow myself a little little bit of poison last night we smoked a joint and watch Vanderpump rules, it doesn't.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: The old seasons are so yeah and you know my husband working in the restaurant industry.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: It's so funny because these are like real arc type yeah that's Let me let just something that's not like it doesn't always have to be, you know, reading Sigmund Freud or or like doing the artist's way, like sometimes you got a little Dean.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was okay.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just talking about that, I think on the last podcast episode, but it was like we have all these like standards and Expectations of what spirituality should look like right, and when I had that shaman, you're a tannical, yeah.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just like and I think like it's just coming back to your authenticity, right, and like what you feel, like you said, if you feel like, I'll call, like I've been sober for a year but I'm going to this really nice restaurant tonight and I think I'm gonna have a glass of wine and like my mind wants to argue like no, you've been so good and like this and it's not, yeah, it's gonna dull.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: But then there's a part of me is like I just want to do it and it doesn't.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: By the way, I've gone without alcohol.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: For years of my life I've gone without me.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: I've gone without refined sugar.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: I've.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: You know, I have done the things when my body and energy, body and mind and psyche, and the work I was doing when it Made sense.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: The biggest thing I I always encourage people to do is give yourself I mean, unless you're, unless you have a serious addiction issue or mental health issue I'm obviously not a therapist but give yourself permission to change your mind.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so just because you're like there's a comedian who's kind of famous and he's known for party or drinking and his doctor, he's been transparent.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: His doctors like no more.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: Like your liver enzymes are up, you have fatty liver.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: Like it's a problem for you Because he has an issue, by the way, with proportion, let's put it that way like with food, with everything, and he's so worried his fans are gonna like him because he's it's somehow become intrinsically tied with his Persona and also some of his dogma.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: Like you wouldn't use that word, but it is dog Mine.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: It's like give yourself permission to change your mind.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you might get funnier, you might get new fans.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the other way too, like I've been without drinking and really enjoyed it and then I was like you know what I'll never forget?
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: I was going to get buffalo wings, of all things, and I was like I'm gonna have meat, I'm gonna get some buffalo wings.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: And then I was like you know what?
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: I want a beer.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: And I just had one.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't even finish it.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: I had like three quarters of a beer and I was like that was nice, yeah.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: And then it was several weeks again before any of it and just Tuning in.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: It's the people who, as a habit, poor, that big old and women are more guilty of this than men.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: I've noticed that big old glass wine and they don't think it's alcohol because it's wine.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: It's weird like no, that's very high love, there's a high percentage of alcohol in there, yeah, and they I've also noticed with Like a lot of my clients too, they'll complain about socializing with other women now, especially other mothers.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of wine drinking, mm-hmm, and nobody's really present.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: There's no dialogue, no one's listening, it's just this sort of like loud shout, talking, runk, fast that leaves people just tired and hungover and no one's made a real connection or had a real discussion.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I do think our culture there's connecting yeah, and also makes some people manic, yeah.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: I've been out to dinner where I'm like you're yelling right now, like, yeah, can you lower?
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: I'm if I'm sensitive to anything, it's loud noises too.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: I'm like we're all trying to enjoy our buzz and you're you're yelling now.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: And it not angry yelling, happy yelling but it was a lot.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I definitely like have witnessed that since in the last year that I've been sober, and it's interesting because, like I mean, it's been so confronting and so uncomfortable at the same time, like trying to date and like Trying to be out and being sober and everybody's such a social lubricant oh so much the phantom limb syndrome of like you used to have the glass.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just even a thing to do yeah.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just do like soda water and lime juice and I found this little like tincture thing that like put in it and it like makes me feel like I'm drinking or whatever.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: But like, yeah, but it's just.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: But I do want to like kind of talk about the fire remedies.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: So I actually just started like a flower remedies, maybe like three weeks ago.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: I did it a couple years ago, but I saw on your website and, like you've talked about it too, I just find it so fascinating, like what is the actual, like how does it work on our bodies?
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a thing that I thought was BS until I tried it and I actually ran a huge, like just an individual experiment with it.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: So, friend, gave me Bach rescue remedy right it's, you can get it.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: A whole foods, it's great.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: By the way, that was the original right.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's an interesting story.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: He revivified a very old tradition.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is more like people would do on their farms or in their own home in Germany and you know, I've been to Germany and Schnops there is not like Schnops here, it's herbal tinctures.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: And His father was an SS member in World War two, dr Bach, and he led Hitler's vaccine program, which was not a vaccine program, and he wanted to sort of clear his family's name by healing damage, by returning people to like pagan feudal plant medicines, and he converted their property to a flower essence factory.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: That's literally the story of Bach, which is wild.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: A friend gave it to me, I took it and I started seeing the or as a plant.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: I'll never forget it.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: And then I was like I'm losing my mind.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: This is plus CBO effect.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: So I stopped taking it and, as I like, the days went on not taking it, that and and I started it back up against.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: I ran this whole weird thing when I was like 27, 28 years old, long time ago.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: And then during COVID, we were in downtown Chicago we're not anymore and it was.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: It was brutal, like you know when I use the term lock down, like it.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: You weren't allowed to go to the park, you weren't allowed to go to the lake front path.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: You couldn't, you couldn't walk outside.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: So we had our own balcony and roof deck and I had a meditation center separately that had a private roof deck and I was like, let's plant stuff, like I gotta get outside, I'm gonna freak out, I have to touch, I have to literally touch grass and touch dirt and stuff, and Started growing flowers.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: And then, because I'm a jerk and I can't just enjoy something, I was like we should make these into flower essences and then I started giving them out as gifts and then people liked them and then it became like a big part of my business.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: I have an Etsy shop where I make them, but I grow everything here.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: I'll show you this is.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: It's not growing season, nothing's flowering.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: But see, that's the backyard garden and I pick flowers when they're ready and I try and leave a little something for nature.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: We actually use Pregnances, we order eggs.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: So no chemicals, no, nothing.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: And put the flowers in a jar of grain alcohol For several months.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: It's in a pantry that's dark and cool, and take it out and that's the 20% mixture, strain the stuff and then it's 80% filtered water and it's very gentle.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: And what makes it work is each plant has its own herbal compounds, right, like things that it does like.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: One of my favorites personally is rosemary.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: It's very stimulating, it's very good for your immune system, it's antimicrobial, you know, in high concentrations, and and so there's that.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: But there's also, like, the spiritual or energetic imprint of that plant, the spiritual plant medicine that imprints on your energy body as you take it.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: So my, my other favorite is Yaro, which is protects your energy body.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: Anyone out there, if you're an empath, you're sensitive, you don't have to take mine, take you.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: I took flower essence services, pink Yaro for years before I ever made it, and the Latin name of that is Achillea milliforium, achilles heel, plugging up the Achilles heel, like ancient people Knew what these plants did.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: They knew they were little helpers and they're also slightly Cytotoxic, meaning like a flower.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: You're not supposed to eat a flower, but when it pulls the medicine out, you get a tiny little bit of it.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: There's a stimulating effect that's very good for the immune system.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: Eating greens is cytotoxic.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know that, like collard greens, mustard greens, they stimulate you.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: There's something a little poisonous in them for us.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good for us too, and full of nutrients, so yeah yeah, no, it's fascinating, like I said, like when I, when I was reading through your website and stuff and I saw the flower remedies because I, like I said I just started it up again I was like wow, this is like perfect timing, like I just I love that and I do you do like custom remedies for people.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and those will be concentrate, so those are like high octane so that they last you a long time.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: Because flower essence is one of the beautiful things Is they're very gentle, they're mostly water, so they're like very approachable and usable for everyone, even if you have an allergy.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: Or you know like they're pretty cool, right Like you can.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: Bach makes them for kids and pets, right Like they're.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: They're easy for everybody.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: I do herbalism consultations where we'll mix, you know, the the mothers is what we call what lives in the jars, right?
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: So that's like a hundred ninety proof and I'll mix that up and you put a drop in like an herbal tea or Something before bed and that takes you to the moon.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: My favorite compound to use in the concentrate is the Turkish poppy.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Seems to for witches and, yeah, mystics, seems to really send them out in the astral, you know, during a time when they want to do that, yeah uh-huh, turkish poppy interesting.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna be.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be looking on your site.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: It's they're on sale right now, not to be salesy, but they're on sale.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: Wait for it because I have to create room in my house, cuz.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: I guess, coming and it's literally they take over every surface area.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: So I put them on sale right now and also just let me know.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: If anything catch you're out, I'll just send you some.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: It's my pleasure.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: The issue is like you have a mason jar but you have to remember and I didn't remember this for a year that that's only 20% of the mixture.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: So when you make a batch, you're a minimum 100 bottles minimum, and they're two ounce bottles.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: They're bigger than most.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: So it's you end up with a lot of product.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and for me it's just bringing people back to an ancient practice, like there's nothing Special about what I'm doing, except that I'm doing it and I'm not.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: People will be like you need a vapor distiller.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: You should have a factory do it.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: I'm like it would ruin it, don't you understand?
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: The whole point of this is I make them the way they made them like in the old worlds, slowly, manually, I'm.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: I'm literally farming, gardening things from seed.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Then you develop this relationship with what you're making.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: It's different and I think it's why they work the way they work.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: People are always like yeah, it's really sweet that you do that, but you should get like a vapor distiller so it's easier and faster.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm like this is not the point.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no man.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can go get that.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: That exists, right, mm-hmm.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting, did you?
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: see, by the way, too, that the FD or was it CDC?
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: Just came out and said that all these cold medicines like Sudha fed and stuff Don't work.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't see that.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not surprised.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: I honestly like I don't watch the news because I'm just like right, can't, but it's well clients sent it to me and they're like LOL, I was like it just never.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: So, going back to what I would say like you know the old, like grandma, great-grandma, grandpa, you know things that they did.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm, there's so much wisdom these ancient peoples they were.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: There was nothing primitive about them.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: We have a real chip on our shoulder, or society.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: We think we know things Because we made a couple of new discoveries and it's like, yeah, I like antibiotics too if I have a bad infection.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you, there were things that came before that also Work, and maybe we won't need so many Fixes if we're more tuned into things proactively.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: Anyway, yeah, yeah, taking back agency over our health and flower essences, herbal remedies, have just been.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: It's been mind-blowing for me.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, use them, experiment with them.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: I love, I love it.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't like in my house we don't have any medicine at all, like if obviously my kids are very sick, we'll go, but I'm more like we'll do.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: Like peppermint tea Propolis is like an everyday thing that I give my kids and it's just.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: It's just making sure we eat vegetables Right, and like just trying to take care and making sure they're getting outside and my son does sports and my daughter's 13, so she likes to stay in her room, but I try and get her out and like doing things right and just like not being on the phone All the time, which is a challenge, but it is what it is right, but like but, we have no medicine in this house either, by the way, yeah.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: I started to feel like I was getting either bad allergies or a chest cold, like a week.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: Just, you get that feeling and I made a hot toddy, yeah, and I put because I have chamomile extracts and stuff using whiskey or something I use the chamomile Mother and I was like here we go and there's terpenes in it, it's anti-inflammatory, yeah, and I don't.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: I don't need to know exactly the mechanism of why all these old things work.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: It's like with people's, yeah, and I'll say I don't need to know how the clock works to tell you what time it is.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm like it's okay.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: We don't have to boil the ocean every time.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: You know, the peppermint tea works.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: It works, go with it.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm yeah exactly.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this has been so interesting.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: I've loved having this conversation with you.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that you're currently working on that you want to share, or just want to let everyone know how they can Contact you and work with you?
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you can follow me on Instagram.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: I'm passive, aggressive about being there, so it's sort of funny.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: I'll probably disappoint you.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: It's at totem rage t o, t, e, m, r, a, c, h and you know the skeptical shaman Podcast, season two.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: I just have conversations, like you do, with people that I want to talk to, and I always learn something.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited about it.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't want it to be an infomercial.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons I was drawn to your work too.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: It's not like by my da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, just reach out.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: I'm always doing stuff.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: I just announced I'm gonna start a book club Because I I on the new moon wanted I go.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: I need to start reading again.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: I have clients who send me books all the time Buddhist books, things that I'm not that deep on and I figured why not open it up so, like my sub-stack subscribers, and we could just talk about them and read them at the same time.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: So I'm really big on the dialogue with people.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah instead of it being top-down, or come to Sedona for $20,000.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you'll get a pussy crystal or whatever, I don't know like I don't do any of that.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: So just before morn.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not what it is.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that off to check that out.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: I read so much it's it's slightly ridiculous Because I used to and I got it was sort of my, my bad habit instead of the big glass or red wine or something.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I got it in my head that I didn't have time to read.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: It was a weird myth that I created with myself, so I'm undoing it now.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good, I'm just I'm.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: I always.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: I always say like I want to know everything.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: There's like, and I feel like books are definitely like knowledge, right, you can learn something in everything that you read, so, and you're not looking at a screen Exactly helps you go to bed.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: It's good.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's okay.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: It absolutely is.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, it's been so good to talk to you.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: We'll talk to you soon.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much.