Latest / Skin Anarchy / Skincare Ahead Of Its Time With Allies Of Skin Founder, Nicolas Travis

Transcript

Skincare Ahead Of Its Time With Allies Of Skin Founder, Nicolas Travis · Skin Anarchy

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to the Mother Records here.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Ecta.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: And today's brand that I'm interviewing is such a phenomenal, phenomenal brand.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have been utilizing their products for about, I think, a month now, and I kid you not, I mean, so many of the products in the line have replaced some of my tried and trues.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of you might have heard of them already and maybe are already using their products.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are, you know what I'm talking about.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the CEO and founder of Allies of Skin, Nicholas.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Nicholas.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to be hosting you.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me today.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to be chatting today.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm very excited to be hosting you.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I really love your brand and I love the line.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's so phenomenal.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like every product, like I said, it really hits home for me as a consumer.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to dive into the science because I know that there's a lot of really good science here in every single product, but I want to learn all about you and your background and what led to the creation of uh of the brand.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you could walk us down memory lane.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll start from the the very beginning.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: My passion for skincare started when I was uh a teenager, and I had severe acne, and I found the entire process of shopping for products really daunting and intimidating.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're in your teens and you have no money and no knowledge about skincare, I quickly realized there were just a lot of empty promises on the market.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up so many different things, and then you know, they just made my skin a lot worse.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was antibiotics.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I did, you know, I tried everything just to clear my skin up.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've always been fascinated by how the skin works as an organ.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so my background's in biomedical and pharmaceutical science.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I just decided to just go after my interests.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I figured, you know, I was going to get an education, I might as well study something I was really, really uh keen on.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there were really two, that was one of the personal reasons why I started the line.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the other reason was that I was um 19 when I had a really, really severe accident.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had um smashed my face and I needed to have reconstructive surgery.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to the best hospital, I went to what I thought was the best doctor, he was a professor and all of that stuff, but he ended up being the wrong guy, and um, he ended up butchering my face, actually.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up with numerous infections, and I had necrosis where the bacteria was eating the flesh on my skin.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up with holes in my face, and um it completely shattered my self-esteem.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it was after a failed uh suicide attempt that I needed to see a therapist, and my therapist said, Okay, let's just assume you cannot kill yourself anymore.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's make a list of all the things you wanted to achieve by the time you're 30.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like 19 then.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was then that I really quickly, well, that was when it was then that I thought, okay, you know, if I cannot change how I look, then perhaps I could focus on the one modality that I could control, which is the skin.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I figured also if I was crawling out on my skin every day and hating what I have on the outside, then perhaps other people would be going through a similar experience.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I could help other people feel perhaps more feelers in their skin or better and, you know, just more acceptance in their skin, then then my pain would have been worth it.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that was when I was like, okay, I'm gonna have my own skincare line.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was um always, I always thought that I had to pay my dues.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought I had to work for like a L'Oreal or an Esté and all of that stuff.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um, because you know, to be honest with you, I it was just a pipe dream.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have any experience, I didn't have enough and any connections, none of that.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went to graduate school because after graduate grading from college, I was so depressed, I really couldn't get a job.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the only thing that I could do was just study some more.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I, for my master's thesis, I went to graduate school.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: After my master's thesis, I wrote a business plan for a startup skincare company.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I figured if I was gonna spend six months of my life writing something, that it should be, it might as well be something that I'm really passionate about.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote to after graduation, I applied to every single beauty company in every single country that I thought I could live and work in, but none of them got back to me.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I needed to get a job.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a couple of offers in the advertising world.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I did.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I did PR in social media for a while.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember being in the office one day, and I was just looking at the office, and I was just like, I don't want to be any of the people here.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't want to be my boss, I don't want to be my boss's boss, I don't want to be my boss's boss's boss's boss.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, what am I what am I doing here?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it was then that I had this urge that I couldn't shake off to go revisit the business plan that I wrote.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And mind you, it was based upon the infusion of a million dollars.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, I was never gonna make a million dollars working at an ad agency, but I realized that I could um start something with just one product and enough to just start one product, and I figured I really had nothing to lose, so I just gave it, I just decided to start it and went for it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So wow, that was um I did in 2013 when we started because we create everything, uh I create everything from scratch, and you know we don't buy any formulations, so our RD process is very rigorous.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it took about two and a half years to get everything from start to finish.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I started developing the first formulations in 2013, and I launched it in the spring of 2016, and yeah, and that was the start.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am such a fan of the fact that you did that because honestly, I think that there's too many, I've said it many times before on um other shows, but I think there's too many cookie cutter brands, anyways, out here, and the fact that you really kind of decided to say, you know what, I'm gonna do this like in a new way, that's that's huge.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, I I like what you mentioned, um, Nicholas.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I like that you mentioned that, you know, coming even coming from science, like it was hard to get into this industry.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a huge conception that people have right now that if you start a skincare line like line, you're just gonna, you know, be booming the you know, overnight, like you're gonna sell out and you're gonna be a rock star hit, and it's just not the case.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you have to really innovate in this space, and that's exactly what I see your products doing is you know, because you don't do cookie cutter formulas, they work, you know.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the formulas really work, and I'm and I hate you know, it's so sad that you had to go through everything you had to go through, but you've created something magical here, you know.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I I want you to know that it's beautiful what you've created.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a really great line.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, go ahead.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: What I what I really learn is that there truly is no shortcut, and and you're absolutely right.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um in in which I think we live in an age where perhaps the prevalence of celebrity brands or the prevalence of just how everybody it to me it seems like we live in an age right now where having your own beauty brands, like the new status symbol.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because 15 years ago, maybe the Birkin back was like a status symbol, right?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And right now it seemed like everybody wants their own beauty brand.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously, you know, with Rihanna's success or Selena Gomez's success or whatever it is, everybody seemed to be wanting their own thing.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even Brad Pitt has his own skincare line, right?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So the proliferation of that has given, I think, people a lot of, you know, and and and for for me, I think, you know, it's it's great, but the truth of the matter is a lot of it is just, you know, you have all these laps that just sell you um private label formulas, and then you put your own cute packaging and then your own, you know, sexy branding, and then you launch on Instagram or TikTok.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you know, the path right now that a lot of brands take.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that, but I think for me, or why the reason why I think you know LICE exists and why we've managed to do um so much and build a you know a global brand with all these incredible retailers is the fact that I think people appreciate or our customers appreciate the fact that our formulations work.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think it speaks volume about um our repurchase rate because that's something that I obsess or myself and my team obsess about because I'm not so interested in the first purchase.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested in if somebody would come back a second or third or fourth time, will they buy it for their husbands, for example, or their kids or or all of that?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm most interested in.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we currently have a we currently have four websites.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a website in Singapore, we have a website in the US, in the EU and the UK.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so in Singapore, our repeat purchase rate is 67%.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the US is 54%, and in the EU and UK is 4445, which is incredibly high in this industry, which points to the fact that I think people keep coming back for more, which some it's you know, it makes me so so happy.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the things that give me so much story because you know, I even though it thinks when things get tough, I go like, okay, I think we've got something good here, which is the product.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you have a good product that people keep wanting to buy, then everything else I believe you can fix.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's about the juice, you know what I mean?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: What is in there?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: What is the real nitty-gritty, like what's gonna work?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I know you had mentioned acne and your struggle with acne, and I am so sorry you had to go through that to genuinely from a medical perspective.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no one should ever have to suffer when they go to a professional, you know what I mean, or her who they think is the right person.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I but because you went through what you went through, I mean, literally, these formulas are like they're they're magic for people who have actual skin, you know, trouble.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, acne is a huge problem.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't tell you, you know, one of my I I people always ask me, you know, if I've had an acne story, and I have like a lot of people, you know, my own journey and my my teenage years, but the person in my family who really struggled was one of my aunts, and she had like the really bad cystic acne, and it was like the typical, you know, people say pizza face, right?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a derogatory term, but I mean, she literally experienced that all of her life, and it was so hard to watch her, even as her niece, go through that because you know, even into adulthood, it haunted her, you know, in a way, and it was like something that just could she couldn't get past sometimes, and it was like, you know, the mental health aspect, you know, I hear you when you say that because it really impinges on so many factors of a human being when they have to deal with something that is so out there and for everybody to see, such as any kind of skin condition.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So something like that, and it has such a purpose behind it.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, when you craft a brand that, you know, you're coming from this understanding, you're coming from that experience, your brand is going to reflect that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what I see allies of skin, you know, representing is that it's for people, it's for people made by somebody who gets it.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's rare, that's very rare.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, to speak on your point about the celebrities, I hear you.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is a status symbol right now to have a skincare line or a beauty brand or whatever.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, if you're not solving a problem, my biggest question to those people becomes why are you cluttering the space for innovators?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's people who have actual vision, you know, and and so yeah, it's it's quite the situation right now, I feel like that we're in, you know, with industry.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um, one of my big questions though, Nicholas, is one of my biggest questions for you is about your formulas.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It is because you have phenomenal formulas.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I was mentioning to everyone listening, I was mentioning to Nicholas before the episode started that um one of the products is called the retinol and peptide repair night cream, and I'm obsessed with this product, literally obsessed.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I use it about twice a week.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's the sweet spot for me.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually made a video for it on my personal TikTok because I love it that much as an example of a really, really wonderful retinol product.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so Nicholas, I would love for you to speak on this product because I think it's just so unique and it it really has everything in it.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got the antioxidants, the peptides, you know, the retinol encapsulated is in their retinaldehyde.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love for you to tell us about this.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you love it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so thank you so much for for even trusting your your your sky with your skin.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: For me, that was actually one of um the first products that we've we've actually launched.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was, it took, it took many years to kind of get it, get it right.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, I took it when I take a step back and I look at what allies, uh what I want allies to be, I really kind of want us to be, you know, your your go-to for for for truly in not only truly innovative formulations, but but innovations with clinical, with clinically proven active ingredients that have you know years and years of efficacy data.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And in 2013, nobody was talking about retinoldehyde, to be honest with you.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, now people are still talking about retinoids, but they're not talking about retinoldehyde as much as I think they will be talking about.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the time will come.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: So in 2013, it was very much kind of this new thing.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been fascinated by how I can, I guess, enable just myself as a consumer um to have the most visible results um with an at-home product.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, that's you know, you can never compare this with, for example, prescription tretinoin, for example, right?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: But however, retinal dehyde is to me the best form, one of the best forms of retinoids that you can buy over the counter.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was just really, really important, I think, to create a formula that would check multiple boxes.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when it came down to it, I really truly wanted to make a product that you could that, you know, that it was like one and done, for example.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you didn't want to use the serum, that was okay.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And this could just function as a really effective night cream, and all you have to do was just wash your face and apply this and go to bed.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so we packed um, and we I found a I went to the source really.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I found the the manufacturer who kind of created this encapsulated retinal dehyde.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went to source and I talked them into working um with me.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it was very much a process where I was like, okay, now I've got this incredible ingredient.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now what else do I need to kind of support and and you know make it even better or supercharge it in the allies term?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And with, you know, in 2013, you can also recall 10 years ago, it was 10 years ago, nobody was talking about peptides.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Peptides were still one of those things that were like, okay, what exactly is a peptide?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I've you know always been obsessed with it.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I, and and the thing, and the reason why you see so many different types of peptides in the entire Elias of Skin protocol or the regimen is simply because I kind of think of peptides as like your personal trainers.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're like personal trainers for your skin cells, and there's a peptide for every different skincare concern.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: There are peptides that will help support collagen production, so reduction of phylenx and wrinkles, there are peptides that will help soothe the skin, reduce inflammation, reduce redness, there are peptides that will help um block melanin um production and synthesis, so they help your skin tone look more even, so on and so forth.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so when it came time for us to select the peptides, we just wanted to create to select peptides that will not only soothe the skin, but also just reduce um the appearance of phyllines and wrinkles, thereby boosting um the efficacy of the retinal dehyde.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, as a consumer, it was because of my experience using products that you know didn't give me the results that I wanted.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was so important for me to just create products, and it still is, um to create products that people could use and be like, oh wow, I actually I I wow, it's working.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I you wake up every day and you're excited to see your skin in the mirror because you're like, oh my gosh, it's getting better, it's getting better.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the that's the joy of using really great skincare, and I wanted that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, with all of that, it was just about making sure that we use not only the right percentages, but also we use, you know, the best supporting actives that just supercharge the retinal dehyde um in and of itself.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because, in and of itself, for example, tretinoin, prescription of tretinoin, is one single ingredient.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just tretinoin acid.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: It can give you incredible results because it really like fades your dark spots, treats acne, reduces the appearance of pores, it thickens your skin over time.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: It just checks a lot of boks.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you really don't have to go too crazy with retinol dehigh.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: You really just have to support it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we just decided to add a lot of great, you know, nutrient-rich um fatty acid oils, for example, like that wouldn't clog your pores, like argan oil, like chulberry seed oil.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then we added peptides to help with the collagen production.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, we had things like Indian ginseng and think and other incredible antioxidants to really, really help reduce the appearance of glycation as well as um reduce free radical damage, which is everywhere.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you said that because a lot of times I find myself uh giving product recommendations, and many, many times people are asking about vitamin A derivative products.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the biggest problems that I've seen so far um in the consumer base has been the this misconception that you can just use uh any kind of vitamin A derivative product and not even worry about antioxidants or any kind of repairing peptides or anything like that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's absolutely, in my opinion, as a scientist, as a doctor, it's wrong to think that way because your skin needs that support.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that when I I remember when I first looked at this formula, that was the first thing that drew me in was that one, you're using retinol, which is literally one step above in the pathway to becoming the most potent form of vitamin A, which is tretinoin, and that is prescription strength.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that was immediately a huge, you know, plus for me because if you're gonna use something that's supposed to act directly on your cells and help them to turn over, you want the thing that's gonna fit, you know, the key that's gonna fit the lock when it comes to the enzyme, you know, or not the ligand receptor uh, you know, relationship.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I was immediately drawn to it.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is amazing.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that you guys had 10 antioxidants was huge for me because something that I think a lot of consumers might not fully, you know, understand yet is that when your cells are turning over and that when they're dying and they're being, you know, kind of replaced by the new cells that are coming up to the surface, there's a lot of free radicals being released from those cells.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that mopping that up and mopping those um extra chemicals and extra, you know, just I guess molecules around the area of that dying cell is extremely important so that the new cells and the healthier cells aren't damaged.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And these are the kind of scientific concepts I feel are more they're more important to understand if you really are looking to get that amazing skin, like elevated level of skin health, you know, that you've been looking for, especially as you move into your 30s.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm in my 30s, and so when I find a product or I'm use using a product, I have to go through this reasoning for myself.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have to understand why I would use this.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you do the homework from the brand perspective for us as consumers, that automatically to me is like this brand gets it, you know, they really understand.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just one of the products in the line, it's just one example, but I've seen it across the whole range where you guys have created products that are the homework is done for the consumer.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the consumer doesn't have to sit down with an encyclopedia, you know what I mean, and and figure out like what thank you for saying that because that's exactly what we we aspire to do because I feel like life is complicated enough, you know, and we aspire to serve anyone, and it could be the you know, I call I call our customers sort of multi hyphenates, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like, you know, you usually like they're usually like mothers who are also wives who are.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Who also have a career, and it's just really tough to juggle everything and then let alone feel like you need a science degree to put together a suitable routine that will yield you results.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we try to take the guesswork out of uh skincare.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I really love that, and it really shines through.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: It really does.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, you know, on that note, I wanted to ask you about that because I know that you had mentioned it took years to perfect this one specific formula, but I think overall, my question is from a business perspective for you, you know, um, you had mentioned when you were writing your thesis that it was a million-dollar project, essentially, that you wrote about.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So when you did go into the business of it, right, what was that like for you?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what were some of the initial hurdles or, you know, things that you had to kind of work through and really kind of understand, you know, step by step, this is how I'm gonna manage this?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm sure this was a lot to undertake.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've created not just a brand, but a really efficacious brand.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure there was a lot that went into that, right?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, how much time do you have?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's it's kind of you really learn, you really treat to be honest, you learn on a job.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, I didn't have any experience, I didn't have any connections, so I really had no idea how to talk to buyers.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I also really had no idea what it what it would take to like build a skincare brand.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just learning every single day, and there were just so many mistakes I had to make.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the biggest ones were, for example, we started in the spring of 2016 with three products, right?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was then that, you know, we had a brand that was just like all black, and we were using LS tubes, and we were like one of the first brands to, you know, again, introduce things like encapsulated retinoldehyde and anti-evaporation mist and probiotics and all of that in 2013.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And nobody was talking about like the microbiome, and nobody was talking about retinal dehyde.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we always were always told that we were too ahead of our time.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I always knew that it was always going to come around.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because at the end of the day, you know, I didn't start this brand to just follow trends.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I really truly approached this from what I believe is missing in the market.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it was actually very difficult because going into buyer meetings um and coming from Singapore, actually, which is a beautiful country, and I'm so proud to be Singaporean, but you know, I would go into all these buyer meetings and they would be like, Oh, you're from Singapore.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know you had beauty brands, I only know of your airline and like your cocktail or your chicken rice.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And they wouldn't stalk us.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really, really difficult because I was like the youngest in the room.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was always the only Asian in the room as well, and it was just really difficult to get a foot in the door.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, back then also when you had all these like ingredients that nobody has heard of, and they were like, What is the microbiome, huh?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: What is encapsulated retinol dehyde?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the truth on the matter is, you know, I'm not a doctor, right?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I also don't have a PhD.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it was tricky um because going to biome meetings, they were a bit like, uh, okay, don't really know what it is, don't really know if our consumers kind of care what you have.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very difficult in the beginning.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also more importantly, you know, we made one of the biggest things we we we had to learn was just packaging failure.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you know, we ended up starting out, you know, cute um with with all these great packaging.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're like, okay, how do we expand the line and all of that fun stuff?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when it came time, I remember when it came time for us to like, you know, launch serums, we settled on what we thought was very cute um airless packaging.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we didn't, you know, at that point in time, nobody really told us that we needed to have something called packaging compatibility testing, which is PCT.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we were like, yeah, this packaging should work, right?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's really cute.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then the supplier, of course, the distributor was like, yeah, yeah, it will work.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's it's their job to tell you anything, you know, you want to hear so that they can get that PO.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so also, our filler at that time didn't request, didn't know how to fill it.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we ended up having these like complicated airless systems that were scooed on the wrong way.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we had our first batch of serums where nothing was coming out, and we couldn't pull them out because the way the the airless serum bottles work is once you you snap it on, like it's stuck, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's why it's called airless.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we ended up having this first production run, which was so costly because we launched three serums at the same time where nothing worked, and it was just such a mess, to be honest with you.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we had to, you know, pull back the stock.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: We had to order nuance, we had to figure out oh my God, I don't think we can, you know, use this packaging anymore.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we had to go through all of that stuff that nobody really told us, and it was just really like a really expensive uh mistake.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: But then there were also really beautiful mistakes, for example, um uh our eye cream.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Our eye cream is one of our best sellers, and we don't really have to do much about it.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And as you may know, um, beauty brands are kind of built around hero products, right?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, Ilya has your skin tint, youth to the people has that kale cleanser.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, usually a hero product accounts for about 50 to 60 percent, like a huge percentage of you know, entire revenue.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: They make a break of brand.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so at that point in time, um, we were trying to figure out sort of like what our hero product is.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the our eye cream is one of our hero products without even having having to try.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: But but we were, we tried, we it took two, three years to kind of like get a formula right.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember we were, we bought packaging and it was like$40,000 worth of packaging, everything was printed and everything, and then all of a sudden, our old formula um failed one of the um tests, and it was one of those tests, um, I think repeat insult patch tests, which is RAPT.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, out of like 150, one person had like an irritation.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was like out of a grade five, it was like a grade two or grade three.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, no, this formula is it has failed, right?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that, but I also at that point in time was like, oh shit, what do I do right now, right?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do I have to dump all my formulations to reformulate, dump all my packaging because everything's you know, printed and bought um to reformulate?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, I also truly believe that in life I've been through so much of things happening like that that if you don't get what you want, when you want it, it's the universe protection, it's the universe way of protecting you because we had to reformulate.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I am so happy we did because we have such an incredible formula now.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: But at that point in time, it was so painful because you know, we spent three years working on this formula, we spent$40,000 on packaging, we had to eat everything and start start from scratch.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm so glad we did because now we have a formula that you know I don't need to change or touch or anything like that, but I'm always tweaking my formulas.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that was those are two stories.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really difficult in the beginning.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love that though.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're so like open about that because I think that's a misconception as well.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people think that you have to get it perfect the first time, but I mean that's the whole idea.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that what a lot of times with skincare brands that I've noticed as well, Nicholas, is that I think skincare brands, like you said, they have that hero product, but they think that because that one hero product works, that's all you have to really.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everything else is gonna be kind of a I don't know, a reflection of it or a shadow of it or whatever, but that's just not efficacious.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's not what we need.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: We need every if you're gonna make a niacinamide serum, like I love your niacinamide serum, by the way.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love the eye cream as well, and I love literally every product, but the niacinamide serum, for example, I mean, people, how many people right now are making niacinamide serums, right?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: In the market, it's like the new hyaluronic acid, I feel like.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And but however, you know, it's it's crazy.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're like repeating history in a way because we pick up one ingredient and we make it over and over again, but yours is just standing out time and time again for me as a consumer because it's got the prebiotics, it's got the probiotics, it's doing a lot more than just putting a ton of one ingredient in high concentrations into the formula.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's doing a lot more than that.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I think a lot of times brand brands might get confused is this idea that just because you've discovered this like new trendy ingredient that everybody wants in their products does not mean that you're gonna formulate the right way by just making it one and done kind of deal.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have to still put thought into what you're making, you know, and and may have those iterations like you described and have those, you know, look backs and reformulate and rethink and examine what you're doing and what you're really putting out there because you're I mean, clearly your numbers speak for themselves, people are coming back for a reason, and that's because these products actually work because you did go through all of that, you know, trial and error, reformulating, rethinking, all of that.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that's huge.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of neosinamite, I mean, I think it's such a great ingredient, and and I love it, but I'm also like quite over it.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of that Paul Refiner booster, because again, you're absolutely right, every brand seems to have a neosinamite thing now, and I think a lot of times people are get you know getting overloaded um with neosinamite.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we actually have a new formula, and and the truth of the matter is we launched our neosinamite booster in 2018, but we spent about three years, so like 2015, I started working on it, and way back in 2015, nobody was talking about neosinamite, like it only got popular and sexy in it in the last couple of years, right?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when I launched it, um it was still you know great, and then all of a sudden, now every brand has a neosinamite thing, and I'm like, okay, like I'm I'm quite like I love the ingredient, but I'm also like quite over it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: But we have a brand new formula that that is so much better um on so many different fronts that doesn't have neosinamite.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we're looking forward to kind of like rebranding and making it even better.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what that's what we're doing.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: But but I'm but I'm also saying that you know, I think it drives my team a little bit crazy whenever I start working on reformulations because when you start doing that, everything has to be redone, right?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to buy new packaging, you have to on the regulatory uh perspective, you really have to register every single thing.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's part of our it's part of our DNA because at the end of the day, I think we're here to serve.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what I truly, truly want is to give our customers, our allies, like the best value that they can get.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're never just done.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, I interrupted you, I think.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: I said we're never just done.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean you're but you know, that's the thing though.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the hallmark of a great brand, is that you're never done.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know, with that serum, it's it's interesting you say that because yeah, there's a lot of niacinamide.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I actually got I think I had posted a comment on somebody's like post on Instagram or something because I love niacinamide.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a you know, as a researcher, I love it because I know that there's a lot of potential there, you know what I mean, as a molecule, it has a lot of potential.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that I had posted about it and I had said, well, niacinamide is a really great, you know, it's a really great ingredient because there's a lot of research around it and all this stuff.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally, I kid you not, got so much backlash from people because everyone I think is over it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like you said, yeah, serum has niacinamide, everybody is using hyaluronic acid, every serum, you know, it just like we take one thing and as an industry, we just run to the far ends of the earth with it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it gets very redundant.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can definitely see what you mean there, you know.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm excited to see that you guys are always innovating.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that's what we want in our brands.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: I it's what I want as a consumer.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know that the brand that I'm invested in, you know, both obviously monetarily, but also emotionally, right?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because we we connect with the brands that we use every single day.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how many consumers out there, how many of you out there listening can relate to that where you know you're tried and true, you know what works for you, and that's what you're gonna go back and buy every single time.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's how a lot of us are.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we do that, we want to know that the thought and the person that's behind the brand is actually thinking of what is the next best thing, you know, what is the next idea or the next thing that's going to be ahead of its time.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's huge that you're able to do that because not many people can do that.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what creates products that are not only ahead of their time in the OTC space, but then also a lot of times people get inspiration from the pharmaceutical industry from these products.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's something we never talk about, by the way, in this industry is how many people in the medical space actually gain inspiration from OTC products.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard, you know, I've heard great researchers say that out loud to me, you know, in conferences and stuff that they got an idea, you know what I mean, from like a product that they saw from such and such brand or something, or they something sparked their interest and it led to them doing research down a specific route, you know, about whatever they were working on.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a huge impact, you know, it's a it's a huge impact.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I yeah, I I'm with you in your in your approach to it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think one of the things that you mentioned was just people having this emotional connection and also just building their routine that way.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, we've never always we've never been a because we started with three products, and it was always building a brand that would play well with everything else you have in your routine, because I truly believe that the the beauty consumer of 2023 doesn't take a, you know, uh uh doesn't tear a page out of Vogue and be like, oh, somebody said I need to Vogue says I need to buy this, so I'm gonna buy this, right?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like it takes about eight or ten touch points for a beauty consumer to that has to, you know, they have to consume before they would make a purchase.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for me, we've always developed the line with the knowing the fact that people will buy their holy grails from us, and it will not be every single thing we own uh or we create.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a beautiful thing.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's how I think people, you know, people will have their holy grails from from every different brand.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so the thing is, if every brand has a neosinemite, then it's an overload.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we really try to do with that idea in mind, or with sort of looking at the way people purchase beauty these days, we're like, okay, how can we create a product that will still sit really, really well if, let's say, somebody is discovering um our brand for the first time and they love neasinamite, but then they don't know that perhaps, you know, the other two or three products that they are currently using also have neasinamite.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I wanted to get it out of the neosinemite game.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Not fully out, but you know, I wanted to put a difference, put my own spin on it because because yeah, I don't want it to be redundant as you said.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're you're doing a fantastic job, and uh your formula for you know, the brain work that you do behind every product is clearly a huge success.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a huge fan of whatever you think is the next step.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm with you.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have my vote genuinely for that.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think it's it takes a lot.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, it does.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's well deserved because I think it takes a lot to be a visionary, you know.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's one thing to come up with one product, but then to do it time and time again, that's a whole different level, you know, it's a whole different playing field.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, huge hats off to you and your whole team, Nicholas.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are just killing it out here.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just I want to round out the interview by asking for some advice from you.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I know you did make, you know, pave your own road here in this industry and in the beauty space.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of entrepreneurs could benefit from your advice uh in terms of entrepreneurship or just the resilience it takes to be successful here.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, any words of wisdom that you can offer to our listeners?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would um the the first that I would say is don't focus, focus on the yes, focus on finding the yes because you will hear a lot, a lot of no's, and you should never let that get you down.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because at the end of the day, you cannot be everything to you cannot please everybody, and you cannot be everything to everyone.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And all you need in life and in business is just one person, one yes, one one retailer to just take the chance on you and believe in you and open that door for you.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I would say keep finding that yes.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, you know, you can look at any situation as half empty or half full, and it's cliche and it might it might sound.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, being truly positive and truly focused on finding that yes will enable you to go a lot further.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing that I would say is that, you know, in startup life, it's okay to get it wrong.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you must get it wrong because that's the only way that you will learn.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you learn by doing.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course, it's great to surround yourself with mentors, it's great to surround yourself with people who have done that, and you can learn from their mistakes, absolutely.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: But there you can't shortcut your journey.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are many things as a founder that you will have to go through, but the truth of the matter is what it's taken me 15 years to realize that you know, life isn't a race or a competition.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Life is more like a GPS.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're allowed to take as many wrong turns as you need, and it will automatically recalibrate and take you to where you're supposed to be.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: So don't be afraid of going down that unknown path because your GPS will recalibrate.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I really like that.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be using it.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I also believe we live, no, I believe we live in an age where we're constantly surrounded by, or like you look in social media, right?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Especially Instagram or TikTok, and you see somebody's version of success, and you're just like, oh, they make everything look so easy, or or somebody, you know, has a hundred million dollar valuation and they've only been around two years, but you don't know how long it took to get there, and then there's no such thing as an overnight success.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And also at the end of the day, maybe that's their journey, and your journey is completely different, and that is okay.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so don't compare your your beginning to somebody's middle or end.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the uh most cruel things you can do to yourself.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, you said it so perfectly, too.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's I hear you, and I I mean, I do that, you know.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all do that.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's so real.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, especially when you're an entrepreneur.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people, like I said, I see it all the time, like on TikTok.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: I see it all the time.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: People are like, I'm starting a new line, and then you know, you come back to their page three months later and they're a little disheartened because they're just like, oh, it's not working or something.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's exactly what you said, it's exactly what you said.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I really hope that everyone listening, you resonated with that as much as I did, because that really hit home for me because I I hear you.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for offering that advice because it's it's solid and it's true.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, for everyone listening, I hope you guys loved this episode.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love Allies of Skin, genuinely, everybody.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I really do.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a great brand because it works.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's the bottom line.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's no, you know, there's a lot of fluff in this industry, to put it nicely, you know, it there's a lot of fluff.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we find brands that hit home and they do it time and time again, you have to really sit down and be like, damn, they're doing something really right that I need to get behind and I need to vote with my dollars and get this brand out there more.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I really encourage you guys, if there's you know, anything you take away from our podcast, it's that I'm trying to bring you guys the the real deal here.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: And Alice is gonna is definitely the real deal.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: So check them out if you have not already.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Leave us your comments about what you think about the brand, what you thought about this episode, and I will be back next time.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so so much.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: You will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a reader and you love medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.