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Transcript

Scratching the Curiosity Itch · Headcrumbs

• 0:04
  Dan: What is curiosity? What does it mean to be curious about the world around us? And how in this modern attention grabbing world of ours do we cultivate that natural wonder that we all have within us? These are the kind of weird questions that I like to think about, the ones that dig into those parts of life that are so elemental that we really never stop or take the time to think about them. And curiosity is just that.
• 0:31
  It is elemental to our lives, to our spirit as human beings, and also, well, to this podcast. Welcome to the Headcrumbs podcast, where every idea leaves a trail worth following. My name is Dan, and I'll be your audio companion for this show. First and foremost, and always, thank you for letting me your time and your precious limited attention in this modern overflowing world, and for considering me to join your regular rotation of content that you allow into your brain as often as these episodes may come out. And since this is episode number one of the show, let me lay the framework for you as fast as I can.
• 1:13
  You can file headcrumbs into the curious explorations category of podcasts. Each episode will start with an idea, a question, or just a spark of curiosity wherever it comes from, and then we're gonna follow and document that journey of discovery. This show is meant to be an experiment of natural wonder in a world of curated content, algorithmically perfected easy brain pickings, so that together we can flex the muscles of figuring it all out in defiance of the erosion of those skills. So here's hoping we've got what it takes. And to kick off this show, I wanted us to explore the very essence of what we were gonna do here on Headcrumbs by asking what is curiosity in the first place?
• 1:57
  What does it mean to us as human beings as part of our lives? But also, how does it work? You know? What does it do inside of our brains? And maybe most importantly of all, how do we cultivate curiosity in this modern age where the information is infinite and the time is very limited?
• 2:15
  So that being said, let's get right into it, crack this first topic open, and see where it leads us. So the spark of the topic for this episode was really the very idea of this podcast at all. Making the show was about wanting to venture into exploring my natural curiosity about life and anything, really. And as I began to put the show together, I just started wondering what the deal was with this part of me. Like, what's driving me to do this at all?
• 2:50
  To make these episodes, to write and research and make audio and then put it out there and please, somebody listen to it. You know, this is not my first Curiosity based podcast rodeo. And after years of being away from the game, I still have this itch that I need to scratch. But why? You know?
• 3:09
  So naturally, I got curious about being curious, and here we are. And for you my dear listener, I think it's worth thinking about this question as well. You know, when was the last time you felt your mind just wander to something completely random, and then allowed yourself to just be captivated by that thought. You know, getting lost in thought with no real purpose, but just kinda for the love of the game. You know, for me, it makes me think about how I feel like I'm really out of touch with what authentic curiosity feels like.
• 3:41
  I get the sense sometimes that I can't ever really tell if I'm just naturally curious about things, or if most of my thoughts are really just the output of the scrambled egg of my brain that's full of online content, algorithm heavy news feeds, and just mindless crap that shoots through my eyes and into my memory banks throughout the course of my day. So fueled by copious amounts of caffeine, off I went to try to figure out this topic from the start. And when I started out, it became immediately clear that this is very big, very abstract, kind of vague in terms of a focus for an episode. So I decided to boil it down and copped out to the absolute basics. Now I said that when figuring out what curiosity is, I'd go beyond the definitions, but nevertheless, I thought I'd start with them to begin with.
• 4:30
  So off to the dictionary, and to dictionaries best friend on the internet, Wikipedia. Now before you roll your eyes and go running for the hills, I actually believe that there's always something to be gained with the absolute elemental basics of of anything. Sometimes there
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: are little tidbits or clues that we can build off of from there, so bear with me for just a little bit longer, please. Dictionary definition wise curiosity
• 4:57
  Dan: is defined as a strong desire to know or learn something. Unsurprising off the bat, pretty much what we would expect. And a secondary definition is that curiosity can be quote an unusual or interesting thing. You know, like a weird object you find at a thrift store or in the attic of your grandma's house. Hopefully nothing traumatizing that changes your view of old grandma.
• 5:18
  But the reason I like to pick apart the real basics of something is because oftentimes, something stands out. And in this case, to me, it was the word desire. Desire means to want something. It's emotional. It has a draw.
• 5:35
  It pulls us in. To want to know something and to be curious about it, that's an important piece to it, is that intention behind that word. And then in that second definition, something that is a curiosity, it means that it needs to be unique or interesting. You wouldn't think an old sock on the floor is a curiosity you found unless you have a wide range of interests, questionable or otherwise. So then let's mash those little elemental pieces together.
• 6:05
  And what do we get? Well, if I'm crafting my own definitions, take that Oxford. But for the purposes of the Headcrumbs podcast from here and beyond, explorations of curiosity from this episode and onwards will need to be about our genuine want to explore something that is unique or interesting. Welcome to podcasting one zero one. But nevertheless, it's a great challenge for me in terms of what I'm doing here in exploring my own curiosity about the world and in passing it along to you.
• 6:35
  You press play. You dedicate your time and attention, something that you have infinite options to what you wanna do with that. And yet you're here with me, which I'm very honored for. And I understand that. So that would mean that my job every episode, every time around is to spark your curiosity in an authentic way that appeals to those definitions.
• 6:57
  So the challenge is issued from myself to myself. I accept. We are in agreement. The deal has been sealed. So then from there, curiosity requires genuine interest.
• 7:10
  We can make that assumption based on definitions. But I started to get thinking, you know, the concept of the show and the whole reason I'm here doing this, this scratching this itch or or pursuing this part of who I am deep inside, You know, it it feels like I'm trying to reconnect with that childlike sense of wonder that we all have when we're much younger, you know, before it gets kinda beaten out of us by the world. Kids always ask countless questions about really absolutely everything. You know, those annoying whys that maybe sometimes drive adults insane, but there's something awesome about them at the same time. And there's definitely an aspect of curiosity that I believe taps into those parts of ourselves.
• 7:50
  And it makes me feel, you know, that in order to truly allow ourselves to be curious about this topic, whether you're here at this podcast or with any other podcast that explores interesting things, but we need to be willing to let our guard down a little bit. You know what I mean? Maybe even rediscover the more childlike parts of who we are. So moving from the dictionary to Wikipedia, our second companion in the real basics, and I promise, I... It's gonna get more academic.
• 8:18
  But Wikipedia, for one, describes curiosity as, quote, inquisitive thinking, such as exploration, investigation, and learning. But then also, that curiosity relates to, quote, the behavior, characteristic, or emotion of being curious in regard to the desire to gain knowledge or information. Just a little positive reinforcement for that idea again that curiosity relates to desire and that emotional pull. Now the Wikipedia page also describes curiosity as an adaptive behavior that creatures utilize for survival, and there's something else to sit with. Finding our genuine curiosity is a way for us to better understand and then live in the world around us.
• 8:59
  Right? And there's this last little tidbit as well. This concept of quote, neophilia, which is a love for new things, which sparks the desire to be curious and learn more, which is a more common trait when we're young. So then on the flip side of that from neophilia is neophobia, which easily enough, you guessed it, that's actually the avoidance of new things. Now this is more common as creatures get older, specifically humans.
• 9:24
  Sounds awfully familiar, I'm sure. It's like reading through the Facebook feed of your older members or your family tree. Yeah. There's a lot of afraid of what's going on out there happening. So, okay, I feel pretty good about some of the basic elements we've picked up here.
• 9:38
  They've given us some contemplative points and a clearer view of the mental map we're building here for this topic. But as always, and like any podcast, you gotta dive deeper, which means I need to get out the old podcasting machete and start hacking into the wilderness. Woah. Woah. Woah.
• 9:54
  Woah. Woah. Nope. Nope. Nope.
• 9:56
  Put it away. By machete, of course, I mean coffee and my laptop and the microphone, not an actual machete. Sorry about that. And while I was skulking around the various web pages of the Internet, I found this old clip from Carl Sagan that I thought worked really well with our exploration here this episode.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: For example, a kid asks, mommy, why is the grass green? And very often you get a, an answer like, oh, don't ask dumb questions or who knows, when in fact it's an extremely profound question. How much better
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: is the sky blue or anything like that?
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: In both those cases, it goes to the fundamentals, in one case of biology and the other of a kind of physics. How much better it would be to, to say to the child, that's a good question, Johnny. I don't know the answer. Maybe we can look it up or nobody knows. Maybe when you grow up, you'll be the person to find out.
• 10:45
  I think kids which are... Who are discouraged from asking those questions wind up learning the lesson that there's something bad about using the mind, and we lose resources. And we need those intellectual resources because we are in very perilous times. And I think the complex and subtle problems that we face can only have complex and subtle solutions. Right.
• 11:04
  And we need people able to think complex and subtle thoughts. And I believe a great many children have that capability if only they're encouraged. Yeah.
• 11:12
  Dan: Now that clip came from an interview Sagan had done with Johnny Carson. And good old Carl, as he often did, had such an open minded view to this piece of being human. That wonder and taking an interest in things around us really is a skill to be cultivated and encouraged, especially when we're young. Now odds are you're not a kid listening to this and if you are, I think I'm gonna have to occasionally apologize for the bad language, but I would throw it out there that even as adults, we need to encourage and build up this part of ourselves. That's really what we're here for right now, isn't it?
• 11:46
  The next turn to make here though was to go find the more complex pieces of this puzzle, which led me to our next question to answer for the episode, which was what is curiosity, like in the brain? The neuroscience angle of any topic is always one of my favorite places to dive into, so you may get used to it as time goes on. And as I went to find answers to that question, I came across this academic article that came from 2015 in the journal Neuron. And as of this 2015 study, these researchers indicated that like many psychological concepts, curiosity suffered from lacking a clear scientific definition, which was maybe less than encouraging at this point. I mean, sure, the dictionary has its say, but scientists have a certain way about them, don't they?
• 12:28
  They're always getting bogged down and being extremely specific. And so they mentioned that Curiosity can include a bunch of phenomena, which includes a list like play, exploration, reinforcement learning, latent learning, neophilia, and self reported desire for information. And I like this list because it reinforces the perspective that I had earlier on, which is that curiosity feels really like it relates to these sensations of childlike wonder. To be curious is to be more free flowing and open minded about things. So then from there, I also found this interesting, where the article mentioned how a decline in curiosity could be a symptom of depression, and on the flip side of that, an overexpression of curiosity contributes to distractibility, a symptom of disorder such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD.
• 13:22
  And I needed to pause on this point for one second because finding out that being overly curious actually relates to ADHD? It's a bit of a nuh-oh moment for me. I have ADHD, medication and all. And I've always had a wandering mind as far back as I can possibly remember through my lifespan. And this little discovery here tracks pretty closely for me.
• 13:43
  I'm literally making a podcast that allows me to pour my over curiosity into other people's eardrums. So defining characteristic? Yeah. It just might be for me. Now I'll put the existential crisis to the side for now.
• 13:56
  I can always come back to it later on a daily basis as I stare at the ceiling before bed, but this same study also had some historical perspective that works for us here. Now get this. In 1899, famous psychologist William James called Curiosity, quote, the impulse towards better cognition. And this, I feel like, lines up very nicely with that idea that curiosity is an adaptive behavior. James also said that as life goes on, that this curious feeling, which is stronger and more free flowing in childhood, later will give way to a, quote, higher, more intellectual form.
• 14:33
  That would mean that with age, we're more geared towards scientific and philosophical knowledge. We go from that free flowing, open to anything kind of state of mind when we're young, to needing to be more certain as we get older, more grounded in what we think we know, or at least forming a belief that what we know is true enough to function in our daily lives. Reliability not guaranteed, of course. The article then also talks about Ivan Pavlov, famously known for his obsession with making dogs drool. But apparently, Pavlov wrote about the spontaneous orienting behavior in dogs to novel stimuli, which in a nice, much more simple way of putting it, he referred to as the what is it reflex as a form of curiosity as well.
• 15:17
  So, yes, animals are curious. They hear a sound. They learn to react. There's Pavlov's whole get down. And anyone with pets, obviously, would find this very familiar as well, I think.
• 15:29
  I have two cats of my own, and I swear if anything in my apartment moves an inch, you can bet the cats will be there investigating like Sherlock Holmes hot on a clue. So at this point though, I was still on the hunt to understand what Curiosity is in a biological, neurological level.
• 15:46
  So my next lead felt like it was starting to get me somewhere. As it turns out, curiosity can activate the reward centers of our brain when we chase that feeling of curiosity and then satisfy the desire for it by finding the information we are looking for. Is that what's happening to us right now? I'll leave that up to you. But essentially, raising a question in our minds can create the desire to learn an answer to it, and then doing exactly that releases our good friend dopamine.
• 16:15
  Which gives me an idea, you know, could we dose ourselves with little intellectual dopamine mini hits based on curious questions? You raise a question, you answer it, you get rewarded, and you feel good. Who needs drugs? Am I right? But to crash my own party again though, in that same academic study from the journal Neuron that I mentioned before, they found that, quote, consumption of information is rewarding, but eventually, when enough information is consumed, satiation occurs, and information serves to reduce further curiosity.
• 16:46
  Uh-oh. Only so much information can be satisfying before it starts to be no bueno for the brain anymore? So I should probably end this episode immediately and say thanks before it gets boring and you run away and look for something else more interesting. So hey. Thanks for listening.
• 17:01
  Enjoy yourself. See you next time. Alright. I'll continue on if you insist. Now it was at this point that I started to find a trove of academic tidbits about curiosity, which I am obviously going to share with you now.
• 17:14
  For one, studies have shown that when we are in states of high curiosity that our midbrain and our nucleus accumbens experience higher activity. I told you it was gonna get a little more academic, didn't I? But what does that mean? Both the midbrain and the nucleus accumbens have roles to play in our dopamine reward systems. Bingo.
• 17:33
  That's what we're looking for. And to find some context for that, this suggests that the pursuit of satisfying curiosity is similar to satisfying any of our other innate needs as human beings, you know, being hungry, needing sleep, feeling a little frisky, etc. Etc. When curiosity is sparked, we set ourselves up for reward by seeking to satisfy that need we've created. So I guess I can turn this podcast into an essential thing for you to feel good in life, sounds like I've finally got a marketing strategy I can work with.
• 18:05
  And there's more though. In addition to those reward systems, the prefrontal cortex, which plays a role in executive function and memory, this also gets stimulated by explorations of curiosity. Mainly by the stimulation from new things, which draws us back to that term neophilia that we talked about before. Research shows that newer things are more stimulating to the brain, which registers them more strongly in our memory. And this is all pretty good so far, but again, I'm a context junkie and so on I went, digging around the neuroscience aspect of curiosity, when I came across this concept.
• 18:42
  So a set of researchers came up with this idea called the PACE framework for curiosity. PACE, in this case, stands for prediction, appraisal, curiosity, and exploration. And how it works is like this: we have a prediction of something that is then proven incorrect or inaccurate, and so that creates an error in our understanding. Then we appraise that error and that disconnection, which creates the curiosity about it, at which point we explore further through information seeking, which is reinforced by our dopamine system's firing as we satisfy that pursuit. And this struck me a little bit from a biological or evolutionary perspective.
• 19:28
  Curiosity has to be rewarding for us to engage in it, right? Like if our brains didn't positively reinforce the seeking of information, then as a species, we would have just been content to sit around, staying the same, surviving one day at a time, carrying on as we always have, maybe never really going anywhere. And from thousands and thousands of years ago to now, imagine where we would be as a species if the need to be curious and then pursue information didn't do anything for us. Why improve when it doesn't feel good? And this idea then led me to the next question of, you know, what's the purpose of curiosity for humans?
• 20:06
  I felt like we had a bit of a lead there with this whole brain reinforced usefulness angle, but I wanted to dig a little bit further on that. Like, everything about being a human being has to have some functional purpose to it in order for it to stick. Drawing back to the evolution point, we'd wonder why we would have this psychological trait if it could be dangerous. You know, if Curiosity kills the cat as they say, wouldn't Curiosity also have killed some early primitive human being who heard a sound outside and thought what's that? Then went outside and got eaten by a tiger?
• 20:41
  Maybe. But maybe also that's the risk of being a more intelligent creature. You know, the Curiosity giveth and taketh away perhaps. Earlier also we touched on it being adaptive behavior. Understanding how the world works allows us to function better in it.
• 20:59
  And when we're young, we need to understand things like fire is hot, water is wet, some things make us go ouch, and so on. So I guess maybe I'm less interested in understanding the aspect of Curiosity this way. Like, it has a functional use, even if it's imperfect, even if it's dangerous. But what I'm curious about, no pun intended here I guess, but I'm curious about the more open ended creative kind of curiosity that we have as a species. Like the less utilitarian version of it.
• 21:28
  The kind that makes a person like me formulate a podcast episode like this for example. So back out searching for more answers to that, digging with the shovel of my brain. This avenue led me to an article that described what they were calling in this one the two fundamental types of curiosity, which I like that. That's simple enough. First is perceptual curiosity, which emerges when there is an unexpected or contradictory piece of information in relation to what we think.
• 21:55
  Sounds like what we were just talking about, right? The second is called Epistemic Curiosity. This is the inherent desire to fulfill the need of curiosity driven by pleasure or center of rewards in the brain. So we've kinda got a bunch of pieces coming together here. Following that lead, in this article I found on these two types of curiosity written by a neuroscience professor named Justin James Kennedy, he touched on a few interesting points.
• 22:21
  One being that perceptual curiosity weakens as we age. Likely because we figure out a lot of the contradictions along the way, we form our perceptions, and then we try to solidify these ideas as people. You know, no judgement, we're only human after all. And on the other hand, he mentions that epistemic curiosity and how this never actually wanes with age necessarily, but that it loses its effectiveness within people when they lose touch with it or they become unaware of its presence in themselves. And that just feels really validating for this episode and really for this podcast already.
• 23:01
  And to follow-up with that, Doctor. Kennedy also points out Epistemic curiosity can wane when people assume that they just don't have curiosity in themselves. And that is such an interesting point to sit on for a moment. Does that feel like you in any way? Is there some truth to that feeling for yourself?
• 23:24
  You know, I know that I felt that sensation before. For example, you know, when I was really young, I never read a lot of books. I figured I wasn't a great reader, didn't really care to learn much, bad student, subpar grades, you know, maybe I'm just a dummy, you know, bad luck in the lottery of life. I assumed that I didn't really have it in me. It took a long time and a lot of years before I started to figure out, oh, wait.
• 23:47
  No. There is a set of skills here that I can build and get better at. And I think it's really important to just sit with that note that just because you maybe don't feel like you have these traits in yourself doesn't mean that they're not there. Doesn't mean that they're not able to be dug up and cultivated and grown into something really awesome. Right?
• 24:06
  Now something else I found really interesting from this article was this part where it touched on neuroplasticity, the ability all our brains have to adapt and change no matter how old we get. Doctor Kennedy talks about how neuroplasticity is the engine that can drive our curiosity at any point in our lives, and that leaves the door open to always build our brains up to be curious and explore things that interest us further. It's never too late to pick up a new curious skill. Right? Now finally, the article talks about the importance of novelty, again, newness, and in relation to our dopamine systems.
• 24:39
  When things become all too familiar, our dopamine reward systems adapt and the payoff is unlessened, an experience I think we've all had in life one way or the other. So curiosity is also about exploring the new. To learn about something you didn't already know about or maybe didn't expect you'd find interesting? Is this me trying to find another way to appeal to you to never skip an episode maybe? No.
• 25:02
  You know what? I actually take that back. You know, if an episode doesn't interest you, then hell, if you feel like you don't wanna waste your time on it with me, then then go nuts. Go find something else that actually does spark your interest. Am I undermining my own podcast's potential listenership?
• 25:18
  Surely a recipe for success in the long term. There was another theory that I came across that also stood out to me to share, which is the information gap theory. This is the idea that our brains need the soothing sensation of filling in the space between what we think we know and what we don't know. And this, according to psychologist George Lowenstein who developed the idea, drives curiosity in people to take action in order to fill the gap. And that also aligns really with that whole desire or emotional pull idea that we touched on earlier.
• 25:49
  Through exploring curiosity together on the show, we can reward our brains by moving towards the zones of discomfort and then coming back towards a more comfortable and rewarding sense of understanding. It's a wee little emotional rollercoaster in audio form. So to answer the question, what is curiosity in the brain? Well, it's an emotion that drives us to fix gaps in our knowledge, to pursue interests, using our brains chemical reward systems, and leaving marks on our memory banks. All with the purpose to...
• 26:21
  Well, really, I think, in order to allow us to change in some way. For the better? Not necessarily. I guess that really depends on what Curiosity we decide to pursue. Right?
• 26:34
  What I found interesting about the various theories of curiosity was how many of them seemed to have something to do with settling into these zones of psychological comfort. Like finding the perfect balance between interest in the world around us, versus the discomfort that can come up by shaking up our preconceived notions or challenging our sets of beliefs or the foundations of knowledge that we live with. I'd take a moment as well here to have you consider, what so far has maybe challenged your own ideas about the very basics of Curiosity. Has anything to this point made you reframe that piece of yourself? Truthfully, working through all this did give me a new lens on the concept, both in a broader sense, but also in a more self reflective way.
• 27:19
  With that being said, and all this information we found together about the concept of curiosity, I figured the last place to go is to try to identify the ways we can build this part of ourselves back up as we head back out into the world. Just to take a little detour for a moment though, in the process of making this episode, this topic reminded me of a scene I love from the TV show Ted Lasso, where the main character, the aforementioned Ted, plays darts against one of the show's resident jerks with a plot moving wager on the line, of course. And Ted, after pretending to be bad at darts, responds to a smart ass remark made towards him as follows.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: You know, Rupert, guys have underestimated me my entire life. And for years, I never understood why. Used to really bother me. But then one day, I was driving my little boy to school, and I saw this quote by Walt Whitman. It was painted on the wall there.
• 28:12
  It said, be curious, not judgmental. I like that. So I get back in my car and I'm driving to work and all of a sudden it hits me. All them fellas that used to belittle me, not a single one of them were curious. You know, they thought they had everything all figured out and so they judged everything and they judged everyone.
• 28:38
  And I realized that they're underestimating me, Who I was had nothing to do with it. Because if they were curious, they would ask questions.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: Questions like, have you played a lot of darts, Ted?
• 28:58
  Dan: Spoiler alert, he wins the darts game, but I really love that perspective when looking back on those awkward years of life that can shape us so strongly while we still have no defined shape of ourselves, you know? Curiosity is a powerful tool of disarming the bad feelings we get when we don't quite understand. Maybe a good lesson for every single human being on this planet right now in the world we live in. Now the final part of these journeys together is about putting it all together, integrating what we've discovered. And at the top of the list of my takeaways so far here is that I think it's helpful to know that the feeling of curiosity within ourselves is a skill that can be worked on, built up, and maintained as time goes on.
• 29:40
  Even better is knowing that there is always this chance to do that. Know, that no matter how old we are, thanks to neuroplasticity in our brains, we can change. We can be different, or better, or just whatever we put our minds to. Oh, it's so inspirational here today, isn't it? But that's a thought that really resonates with me deeply, honestly.
• 30:02
  That we actually have control over our own curiosity and our own ability to build it as a skill. Something I always think about is this informational version of you are what you eat. We are what we cram into our brains, in a sense. The stoic philosopher Epictetus said that, quote, you become what you give your attention to. So I'll just take credit for that idea as well here.
• 30:25
  What we allow ourselves to be curious about in the world can shape us. There's something to be said about considering what's in our informational diets. To make a bit of an obvious grandstand here, of course, but it feels like everywhere we turn these days are these curiosity killers stemming from technology that hijacks those dopamine reward systems that we really need, and then take away our control over our own curiosity like that, removing its ability to flourish and really lead us to more interesting places. Like, it's no wonder it's so hard to explore genuine curiosity in this world right now when there are infinite ways to get lost in things like entertainment, or to be told what to think by companies and people just trying to sell as much advertising as possible, or push us into one ideology or the other? Where could anyone find the space to explore the miracle of infinite information on their own?
• 31:19
  And, you know, maybe get some real use out of it for themselves? It also made me think of this book I read called Lost Connections, where author Yoann Hari talks about the endless amounts of intellectual junk food, he calls it, that we have access to nowadays, and that really does feel true. You know, if we really are what we eat, psychologically speaking that is, then much like our actual food, it's never been easier to cram convenient, short term satisfying junk formation into our brains like a McDonald's drive thru for our attention spans. And look, this is not me banging the table for everyone to go out there and become some sort of monk with relentless discipline. I understand we are all human beings, and you know a big mac every now and then never really hurt anybody.
• 32:02
  But it's about finding that balance. You know, balance between enjoying ourselves with something cheap and easy, and with cultivating that genuine wonder that I believe is really essential to our mental health and our growth as people, and also just of spiritually as human beings, you know? But that's what Headcrumbs is all about, working together to explore our curiosity about the things that are interesting and follow the trail wherever it leads. And along the way, hopefully we can cultivate our curiosity in a more natural, free flowing sort of way. That's my goal here and what I hope to bring to you.
• 32:37
  And if you find this podcast isn't for you, that your brain isn't getting those sweet rewards I promised, then you know what? You're still valuable as a human being whether you're a tick on my listener statistics or not. So that leaves us with that last question that we had from the start of the episode. How do we cultivate curiosity in the world as we know it now? So first I'm gonna take us back to Doctor.
• 32:58
  Kennedy, who still got some more good info from earlier, and he makes some key points for us to think about as we head to the end. One is that when it comes to cultivating curiosity within ourselves, we need to get more in touch with our self discovery and self awareness, a little more mindfulness. Also, that we need to understand that the nature of our curiosity changes as we move through life. Some interests might fade, others will emerge, and how interested we are in something directly relates to how curious we are. Which then relates to how invested we will then be with the reward centers of our brain, and as we understand at this point, interest equals reward setups.
• 33:38
  And I'd stop to say that I think it's okay to change those things as we get older, you know, to leave old hobbies and interests behind when they're no longer kind of useful for us or giving us something fulfilling, and then move to discover new ones. Like I said before many times here this episode, newness is very important in this process. I think overall though, it's important to understand that we can move with the flow of life and it's validating as well to know that our brains can reward us just by feeding into that flow of that change and being open to it. As And much as I know there's an answer that will surely challenge us in some way more as we get to the end here and answer this question, I did stop to have a little fun putting this episode together and I imagined what it might look like if we could cure our dwindling curiosity the easy way. You tell me how this sounds.
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: Do you struggle with a feeling that nothing is sparking your interest anymore? The experience of discovery in our informational world just not giving those feelings of joy like it used to?
• 34:39
  Speaker 6: I was struggling to feel interested in anything. Every Instagram reel, Netflix show, and TikTok felt like been there, seen that.
• 34:48
  Speaker 7: Friends would send me memes by the dozen,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: but I couldn't even snort out a little air out of my nose at something funny.
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: Help is on the way. From Scambuta Pharmaceuticals comes a breakthrough treatment for the dwindling enjoyment of discovering new things. Introducing Cura Fix, a prescription solution to those modern feelings of emptiness and lack of enjoyment. I talked to my doctor about my feelings of depression, that nothing felt new and interesting and I needed change in my life. He recommended Curafix And now, I feel like everything old is new again.
• 35:25
  Curafix acts on the reward centers of the brain, refreshing them and allowing you to feel a level of excitement without the hassle of changing routines, exploring newness, or adapting yourself in any way whatsoever.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: I was worried I'd never be entertained by scrolling my phone on the toilet for forty five minutes and that I'd be forced to engage with my loved ones more often. But thankfully, Curafix
• 35:48
  Dan: made me feel
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: like I'm getting the most out of my choice to be entertained for as long as I want to.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: Now I know that my loss of interest in things isn't my fault, and there is a solution that's as easy as tapping that like button. Spark your interest all over again with Curafix. Talk to your doctor to see if this is the treatment option that's right for you.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Curafix, not for everyone. Tell your doctor if you are pregnant, not pregnant, have functioning organs, or experience headache, nausea, indigestion, general malaise, broader malaise, sleep demons, crippling eye pain, arthritic thumbs, or any feelings of a desire to escape your current life situation.
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: Thanks, Curafix. Oh, there's some new posts to sink myself into, and I can't wait. Curafix, because your curiosity needs a helping hand.
• 36:33
  Dan: Oh, I maybe forgot to mention that. Yes, this is an informational podcast, but I do enjoy keeping it a little weird every now and then. But wouldn't that be nice? You know, a pill you could pop and would just cure our problems? That is the modern solution in a lot of ways.
• 36:47
  But to actually dive into answering that final question about how we cultivate curiosity, well first, we need to understand that feeling curious means exploring something that you are genuinely interested in and on your own terms. By creating the dopamine reward feedback loop for yourself, asking questions about things you're interested in, identifying areas where you truly want to know more and then going for it, this is how we can build this skill up. Maybe it's also a good reminder for us to all put down our dopamine hijacking machines that we have in our phones, and sometimes, you know, make time for things that we maybe normally don't do, creating novelty by doing those new things, or breaking the routines and patterns of life that we get just so settled into. Remember, curiosity when we're young has a lot to do with exploring the new in a free and unconstrained way. And I know that's hard to do as an adult, but we are trying to find some solutions here, right?
• 37:41
  I think we all need to take a moment to just allow our minds to wander freely. That's what I've learned from this episode. You know, we need to be able to play in the mental sandbox every now and then and just see where it leads us. See what we come up with. You know, maybe once a day or honestly, more realistically, whenever you have the time to.
• 37:59
  If something interesting crosses your mind that makes you wonder or you feel something that feels like curiosity, maybe write it down, put it in your notes app, whatever you got. Then when you have a moment, maybe instead of opening up some app for the twentieth time in the last hour, ask some more questions about that thing you had float through your brain earlier and seek an answer. And then most importantly, try to pay attention, try to notice to how it feels to do that, to dive headfirst into that process. And I wonder, will you feel a sense of drive developing? Will you feel the emotional pull if you give yourself the opportunity to do something like this?
• 38:36
  Maybe not right away. But remember, it is a skill that has to be built up. You you don't just go to the gym and start banging out 100 pound dumbbells on the bench day one. Takes time. Sitting with our curiosity and giving more attention to our informational diets feels like a top priority to build curiosity up within ourselves less junk food for the brain, and a little more space for exploration.
• 39:00
  Another key takeaway I got here is that our brains need the space to wander. They need that unstructured play. You know, slowing down, maybe taking a walk without headphones in for an example. I'm undermining podcast listenership once more. But you know, even just staring at the wall, I know it sounds ridiculous, but apparently Einstein did that a ton, and who are we to argue with him, I guess?
• 39:24
  Although it may seem like you're doing nothing in those moments, and I feel like our modern world makes not being actively participating in something feel like you're doing nothing, but it really isn't nothing. It's you exercising the part of your brain that can do some natural wandering, can do some natural piecing together of all the stuff that's already been crammed in there. You know, I've heard before a bunch of times in the past that many creative or genius thinkers in our history actually say that they got a lot out of doing nothing. They allowed themselves to get bored and then accomplished amazing things. From what I know, it is valuable.
• 40:02
  Our brains need that downtime. They need to be able to consolidate information, naturally work things out. It's one of the many reasons that sleep is so important. That's where all the stuff that's in our brains kinda gets sorted and put in the right places. Our brains need some space.
• 40:17
  And unlike a romantic partner who feels smothered, our brains can't ask for that space. We need to know how to grant it to them ourselves. So after all we've gone through here, let me ask you. What does curiosity mean to you now? I got some good feelings from what I found along the way, and I really hope that the understanding of curiosity feels better for you now too.
• 40:40
  But most of all, I hope that it leads you to feel more curious in your own life. That might be a huge ask, and I might be holding myself in higher regard than a podcast probably deserves, but I kinda still hope for it. Nevertheless, call me naive, I suppose. But just to satisfy one more time, I need to create a deeper meaning for exploring a topic. But I think back to that adaptive behavior angle we talked about earlier in the episode.
• 41:05
  This idea that we get better as people and arguably as a species overall when we stay curious and open to explore the new. And in this world where the challenge of critical thinking and natural wonder are being whittled away basically at every turn in an endless stream of entertainment and stimulation, well, I think I'm coming to believe as well that there's a dire need to reconnect with this part of ourselves because, really, what are we as humans when we stop being interested in exploring or challenging our ideas? I'm not sure I want to know what society without that part of ourselves looks like long term, and I'm a little worried that we're kinda already on that path in a lot of ways. So going forward, let's make a deal. Let's explore our curiosity about the world together, individually, whatever, as long as it's happening.
• 41:55
  You know, let's get into the mental gym and build up those brain muscles and see what we can accomplish, whatever that may be. Of course, I do also hope that you'll be back again here for episode two or any episode at all after this and beyond, and that together, we can help build our curious selves up. Each episode will continue to be a genuine exploration of a topic or idea like this or like anything really. That being said, if you do have something that pops into your head and you think it would make a good episode and you just don't have the time to do all the crazy work that someone like me might do, I'm all ears. A podcast like this feels like a partnership and a collaboration.
• 42:34
  At least that's what I would hope for it to be between a host and a listener. So for this time, thank you for teaming up with me here and setting the tone for this podcast as a whole going forward. So that's it for this episode one of Headcrumbs. I hope you'll come back and follow another trail with me here in the future. If your curiosity was sparked at any point or if you have an idea that you're wondering about, you should reach out to me and let me know what's on your mind.
• 43:00
  I'm reliably found at the podcast's email, headcrumbspodcast@gmail.com. And lastly, if you're still here, if you know someone who might find this episode interesting, tell them about it. I'm sure they'll appreciate the recommendation. And I appreciate you for giving me the time to listen. Now let that curiosity lead you to some new places and see where it goes.
• 43:21
  And I'll see you next time.