Latest / truthunedited / Made an Idol Out of Myself Until God Broke Through _ Russell Brand - Jesus People Podcast

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Made an Idol Out of Myself Until God Broke Through _ Russell Brand - Jesus People Podcast · truthunedited

0:00
Speaker 1: False allegations, I'm sure you would say. You've got fame.
0:04
Speaker 1: You've had sex. You've had money. You've had prestige. You've
0:07
Speaker 1: had it all. What do you have now that's different?
0:09
Speaker 2: You are offered personal glory. You are offered attention. Then pornography, weed,
0:15
Speaker 2: and coke, and LSD, and amphetamines, and MDMA. And then finally, notably,
0:21
Speaker 2: and somewhat successfully, crack and heroin. The intimacy revolution. of
0:25
Speaker 2: sex indeed was an attempt to establish those kind of connections,
0:29
Speaker 2: that kind of bliss of feeling wanted and feeling loved.
0:32
Speaker 2: What happens is, is in the increasing letting go, he
0:35
Speaker 2: must become more, I must become less. The new identity
0:38
Speaker 2: comes in him. I was on the floor. I was
0:40
Speaker 2: either on my butt or on my knees. I don't
0:42
Speaker 2: remember which right now, but I was on the floor
0:44
Speaker 2: in a green pasture by still waters with a shepherd.
0:50
Speaker 1: Guys, welcome to the Jesus People podcast. Super excited to
0:52
Speaker 1: have our next guest, Russell Brand, on the podcast. What
0:56
Speaker 1: an honor, man.
0:57
Speaker 2: Right. Thanks so much for having me here at your
0:59
Speaker 2: rental beachside home.
1:01
Speaker 1: That still smells like paint. They must have just painted
1:03
Speaker 1: this thing because it's definitely very painting here. However, man,
1:07
Speaker 1: I have watched your films. I know you have been
1:11
Speaker 1: a fan for a while, but there was a moment
1:14
Speaker 1: where I saw you praying on your knees. I don't
1:15
Speaker 1: even know what conference it was. It might have been
1:18
Speaker 1: up with Tucker Carlson or something. I saw you get
1:20
Speaker 1: on your knees. And there was this moment where I
1:24
Speaker 1: feel like my spirit resonated with your spirit. And from
1:28
Speaker 1: that moment, I said, I'm having this thing on my podcast.
1:31
Speaker 1: Because the Jesus People podcast, we want to talk about
1:33
Speaker 1: intimacy with Jesus above all else. That's what we're about. So,
1:37
Speaker 1: I mean, your world is spinning right now. You have allegations,
1:42
Speaker 1: false allegations, I'm sure you would say. I don't know.
1:46
Speaker 1: What I do know is when I see the spirit
1:47
Speaker 1: of God on a man of God. And so thank
1:49
Speaker 1: you for being with us. That's what I want to
1:51
Speaker 1: talk about today.
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Speaker 2: I'd be happy to speak about that.
1:55
Speaker 1: Well, my question for you is this. You have achieved
1:59
Speaker 1: what I believe every man would want to achieve. You've
2:02
Speaker 1: got fame. You've had sex. You've had money. You've had prestige.
2:06
Speaker 1: You've had it all. What do you have now that's different?
2:10
Speaker 1: All right.
2:11
Speaker 2: Well... I did have sex more than once. I don't
2:14
Speaker 2: want to overcorrect because of the allegations. I reckon, this
2:21
Speaker 2: is what I can tell you, Ryan, is that I
2:24
Speaker 2: felt like, I don't even really think about it. See,
2:31
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be wonderful to be a sports star? Wouldn't
2:33
Speaker 2: it be wonderful to be a star player? in NFL
2:37
Speaker 2: or a college superstar basketball or baseball wouldn't it be
2:41
Speaker 2: magnificent to be glorified to be adored to feel that
2:45
Speaker 2: adulation what is that urge to feel reverence and to
2:51
Speaker 2: feel adored what is it what is it that I
2:54
Speaker 2: wanted what is it that seemingly so many people want
2:57
Speaker 2: to be looked at or to be admired not that
2:59
Speaker 2: people don't sometimes want to be absolutely ignored and sort
3:02
Speaker 2: of in a in a tunnel, in a funnel, in
3:04
Speaker 2: a burrow, away, away from all eyes and away from
3:07
Speaker 2: all light. People have this impulse towards seclusion as well. Now,
3:14
Speaker 2: what I had was, I would call it, the false fruits,
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Speaker 2: the counterfeit fruits of the spirit of error. See my bio.
3:25
Speaker 2: I'm from a normal place. It's kind of like New Jersey.
3:28
Speaker 2: I'm aware, I presume I'm speaking to a mostly American audience.
3:32
Speaker 2: So think about those kinds of places. I don't know,
3:34
Speaker 2: New Jersey or Connecticut. I'm talking about flatlands. I'm from
3:38
Speaker 2: a place called Gray's in Essex. It's normal there. I
3:41
Speaker 2: see now how beautiful all places are, but I was
3:43
Speaker 2: from a place where it seemed like it would be
3:46
Speaker 2: easy to be ignored, where it'd be easy to end
3:48
Speaker 2: up working in a call center or in a factory
3:52
Speaker 2: of Fords specifically, or working in, like maybe working in
3:58
Speaker 2: the city. Some people went to work in the city
4:00
Speaker 2: of London, the school that I went to, I went to, uh,
4:04
Speaker 2: but something I was told by Jamie Winship, who you
4:07
Speaker 2: should definitely have as a guest on your show.
4:10
Speaker 1: Um, he's brilliant.
4:11
Speaker 2: Like. He said to me to look back, he said,
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Speaker 2: at your life and spot all the moments that you
4:17
Speaker 2: know that Christ was there in retrospect, having come to
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Speaker 2: Christ at a late age. Specifically, I think 23 years
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Speaker 2: into recovery, I think is maybe the important detail. Drug
4:26
Speaker 2: and alcohol free for a long time, which is a
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Speaker 2: slow educational spiritual awakening, recognizing that you've got to live now. with,
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Speaker 2: to use the word that you used eloquently and to
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Speaker 2: my delight in your introduction, intimacy. You need to find intimacy.
4:42
Speaker 2: You need to find intimacy. And it's very difficult to
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Speaker 2: live in this world and discover that intimacy because I think, one,
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Speaker 2: it is directed towards self. You are directed towards self.
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Speaker 2: You are directed, in fact, in the counterfeit, antithetical, and
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Speaker 2: diametric opposite direction of charge that you should be heading in.
5:04
Speaker 2: You are told and continue to be told, and in fact,
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Speaker 2: the condition I reckon has exacerbated since I was young,
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Speaker 2: that yourself and what you want are the pinnacle of
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Speaker 2: your desires, that human intelligence and human reason are the
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Speaker 2: apex of what is possible and what is known and
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Speaker 2: maybe even what is knowable. I have heard science entertainers say,
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Speaker 2: it can't be measured it isn't there and one like
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Speaker 2: and one day we will know all things like a
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Speaker 2: sort of a hubristic rhetorical tower of babel right there
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Speaker 2: um so what i had then was i had what
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Speaker 2: i was offered by the system you are offered personal
5:47
Speaker 2: glory you are offered attention i can't tell you mate
5:49
Speaker 2: like look you do a podcast So you've probably gone
5:51
Speaker 2: for a bit where you started the podcast and you
5:53
Speaker 2: didn't have many viewers or many followers on Instagram or
5:55
Speaker 2: the various platforms you must operate on. And then slowly
5:58
Speaker 2: people will start to share your stuff and maybe a
6:00
Speaker 2: clip of yours gets shared on some other thing. And
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Speaker 2: you see an influx of new followers and new views
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Speaker 2: and it starts to be like, oh, wow, that's thrilling. Me, man,
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Speaker 2: I've been so beat down by the culture that I
6:12
Speaker 2: can't see it as anything other than... As evil. And
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Speaker 2: that is a sort of scriptural position, if I may say, obviously,
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Speaker 2: notably Ephesians and John's first epistle.
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Speaker 1: It's evil.
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Speaker 2: The world is evil. We're not debating it. We're not
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Speaker 2: talking about the creation. We're not talking about nature. We're
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Speaker 2: talking about worldliness. The empire is evil. Anyhow, so it is, though, pleasurable.
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Speaker 2: I mean, like the fallen one can't lure you in
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Speaker 2: with models and modes of torture.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: I thought it was pretty great to go for many,
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Speaker 2: many years feeling inferior and weak and pretty pitiful and
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Speaker 2: unattractive and, in fact, having to medicate in a variety
6:54
Speaker 2: of ways. First, through watching TV real close to the screen.
6:58
Speaker 2: You'll get square eyes, Russell, sitting that close to the television.
7:00
Speaker 2: Then through chocolate bars, particularly the British Biscuit Penguins by McVitie's.
7:05
Speaker 2: You have an American equivalent, Tim Tam. It's not as good,
7:08
Speaker 2: where you could eat those things. You could pull them apart.
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Speaker 2: Then pornography, a little bit older. Then weed and coke
7:19
Speaker 2: and LSD and amphetamines and MDMA. And then finally, notably,
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Speaker 2: and somewhat successfully, crack and heroin, like a sort of
7:27
Speaker 2: a government pamphlet on the trajectory of what happened if
7:29
Speaker 2: you use recreational drugs. I sort of lived that. Now,
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Speaker 2: we didn't have fentanyl in my day or meth. at
7:34
Speaker 2: least not available in the way that it seems to
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Speaker 2: be sadly now. And that for me represented a kind
7:39
Speaker 2: of simultaneous summit and Nadir, the recognition that you cannot
7:43
Speaker 2: alter your state chemically reliably and resolve the problem of
7:47
Speaker 2: the spiritual absence of he that we was made for
7:51
Speaker 2: through and to worship. I didn't know that then I
7:55
Speaker 2: come from the culture I made in the culture. I've
7:58
Speaker 2: been a priest in this culture. Now, if you're a
8:00
Speaker 2: priest in this culture, you are a shaman, you are
8:03
Speaker 2: a pagan, you are a worshipper of self. Now, as
8:08
Speaker 2: I was told, the problem with pantheonism is if everything
8:13
Speaker 2: is God, then anything is God. And I think it's
8:17
Speaker 2: wonderful that I can see the God in you and
8:19
Speaker 2: with your friends here and see the beauty even in
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Speaker 2: sort of casual, disposable and mass-produced art. It's good that
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Speaker 2: you can see the beauty in those things. But These
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Speaker 2: things are imitations as if glimpsed in a mirror darkly
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Speaker 2: of the true beauty that we may access. Now, the
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Speaker 2: thing is with sex is sex is state altering. Drugs
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Speaker 2: are obviously a direct and successful and quite good method
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Speaker 2: for altering your state. Your state, you talk about intimacy
8:50
Speaker 2: at the very beginning. If you feel inside lost, disconnected, inferior, worthless, inadequate,
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Speaker 2: all of the things the accuser will tell you that
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Speaker 2: you are, and I know that the people listening to
9:00
Speaker 2: this will know what it's like to think, I'm not
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Speaker 2: good enough, I'm worthless, I'm broken. Without Christ, man, I
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Speaker 2: don't know how... Well, I do know how you navigate
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Speaker 2: that territory. What you do is you take drugs, then
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Speaker 2: that doesn't work. Then you sleep around a bunch, that
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Speaker 2: doesn't work. All the things I've already listed. And then
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Speaker 2: if the circumstances warrant and conditions... facilitate, you may become
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Speaker 2: a celebrity. You may be granted a position at the table.
9:26
Speaker 2: I guess it would be being an influencer now with
9:27
Speaker 2: some of the successful podcasts, because ultimately the technology is
9:31
Speaker 2: what dictates the milieu of the time for technology surely
9:34
Speaker 2: is the unmanifest made manifest. Who is it that performs
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Speaker 2: that for us.
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Speaker 1: Supremely?
9:41
Speaker 2: So the technology defines the culture. Now we have accessibility
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Speaker 2: and utility, and we can all use the means of production.
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Speaker 2: We can all make content all of the time. We're
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Speaker 2: living in a sort of, in a sense, a utopia
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Speaker 2: of content creation. What a glorious opportunity for all of us.
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Speaker 2: When I got into it, there were a lot of gatekeepers.
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Speaker 2: You might have to have an agent. like you or
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Speaker 2: a movie studio like you or a British TV network
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Speaker 2: like you or a radio station or whatever, or even
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Speaker 2: one individual that was influential enough. Man, what it's like
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Speaker 2: is it's like suddenly... All them feelings of worthlessness are
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Speaker 2: temporarily suspended. Anyone who's taken drugs will know the relief
10:14
Speaker 2: when you're chemically dependent on a substance and you're beginning
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Speaker 2: to approach bodily withdrawal. The relief that comes when you
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Speaker 2: take that substance is a good simulacrum for the bliss
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Speaker 2: of knowing him and being held by him. So the
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Speaker 2: thing that I have now that I didn't have then
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Speaker 2: is the.
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Speaker 2: The glorious anguish of knowing him, the glorious anguish of
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Speaker 2: knowing I'm being molded and moved by conditions, the glorious
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Speaker 2: anguish of knowing that I have to continue to yield
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Speaker 2: and let go and that I must become less and
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Speaker 2: he must become greater. The peculiar sort of trip, the
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Speaker 2: psychedelic flip of everything I thought was real sort of
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Speaker 2: suddenly not being real as if glimpsed through a mirror darkly.
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Speaker 2: You see yourself different. You know you are different. You
11:01
Speaker 2: are different in him. So What it's like is sometimes
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Speaker 2: it's kind of really, really amazing. And was it Spurgeon
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Speaker 2: that says, you know, the old man can swim. You know,
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Speaker 2: I may have ditched him in the water, but he's
11:15
Speaker 2: like the guy that I used to be. Still, I
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Speaker 2: feel him. I feel his edges like a dead fish
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Speaker 2: that twitches yet on a dock. I still feel the
11:26
Speaker 2: circuitry of the old system firing the body itself. Nature
11:31
Speaker 2: itself may be falling. Fallen, C.S. Lewis suggests at least.
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Speaker 2: So what it's like, mate, is like, oh, I like
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Speaker 2: bliss and I like ecstasy. If it were up to me,
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Speaker 2: and obviously it isn't, I would live in a kind
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Speaker 2: of a saintly state of perpetual bliss. I like it.
11:50
Speaker 2: I like to be blissed out on the glory, the glory,
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Speaker 2: the ecstasy. He seems to come to me in solitude. Like,
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Speaker 2: you know, you see how we talk about in the
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Speaker 2: church or whatever, now I'm in churches, Like some people,
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Speaker 2: they get it with a singing and the worship and
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Speaker 2: all of that. That's not my speed. I used to
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Speaker 2: get it, I reckon, through the intimacy of sex, indeed,
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Speaker 2: was an attempt to establish those kind of connections, that
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Speaker 2: kind of bliss of feeling wanted and feeling loved. And
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Speaker 2: how extraordinary to discover that if you're able to withhold,
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Speaker 2: to withstand sex, to not worship false idols, to not
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Speaker 2: give your gold to the collective manufacturer of the golden calf,
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Speaker 2: your individual gold, your gift from him, his signature in
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Speaker 2: you unique. If you don't give that over to the
12:35
Speaker 2: collective's false idolatry, which is what the culture suggests demands
12:38
Speaker 2: will continue to demand, then you may know him. But
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Speaker 2: it seems to me there's some, you know, it ain't
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Speaker 2: a state of continual bliss.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what comes to mind is for me,
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Speaker 1: I look at a guy like you, you are charisma
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Speaker 1: on a stick.
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Speaker 2: Oh yes, I do have the old charisma. It's been
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Speaker 2: a real menace.
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Speaker 1: It's a, it is a rare gift to walk into
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Speaker 1: a room and just everyone goes, whoa, who is this?
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Speaker 1: That's a power that I think I've craved from a
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Speaker 1: young boy who has his old ball of woundedness and
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Speaker 1: is trying to figure out who I am in this world.
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Speaker 1: And I'm trying to medicate with glory and medicate with
13:17
Speaker 1: all the things that we do. My question for you is,
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Speaker 1: as you've wrestled with identity, Because God's given us unique identity.
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Speaker 1: And you've talked to Jamie Winship quite a bit. Who
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Speaker 1: is Russell Brand and what had to die in order
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Speaker 1: to find him?
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Speaker 2: What had to die was the false idolatry and the
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Speaker 2: false worship of the religion that I had before, which was,
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Speaker 2: I didn't know at the time, Russell Brandism, where what
13:43
Speaker 2: you do is you worship Russell Brand and what he
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Speaker 2: wants is the most important thing in the world. And
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Speaker 2: what he fears is actually a little bit more important.
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Speaker 2: Those two things are the false idols or the pillars,
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Speaker 2: the poles, the pillars that Samson is chained to, the
14:00
Speaker 2: poles between which the electromagnetic charge is conducted. What I'm
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Speaker 2: afraid of, what I desire. It does talk a lot
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Speaker 2: in scripture about fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
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Speaker 2: The beginning, just the beginnings, not all of it. Don't
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Speaker 2: just stay terrified the whole time. It's the beginning of wisdom. Now, desire,
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Speaker 2: what is desire? Are you able to investigate even deeper
14:27
Speaker 2: than etymology? Are you able to see beyond words? Are
14:30
Speaker 2: you able to delve into the realm of the shapes
14:33
Speaker 2: and the shapely? Are you able to sense the shadows
14:36
Speaker 2: and hues, the triangles, the geometry, the tones, the notes,
14:40
Speaker 2: the harp strum by the boy with the flock? Are
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Speaker 2: you able to hear that underneath desire, underneath wanting, is
14:52
Speaker 2: a kind of magnetism? The non-Christian spiritual writer Michael Singer
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Speaker 2: describes this beautifully in one of his books, maybe Untethered Soul,
15:01
Speaker 2: one of the later ones perhaps, he says we've hands
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Speaker 2: in us and those hands are either pulling in or repelling,
15:08
Speaker 2: pulling in or repelling. This gives me a helpful image
15:12
Speaker 2: that I either like, I sent, Oh look, you're being
15:15
Speaker 2: nice to me.
15:16
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Oh good.
15:17
Speaker 2: I can relax. You know, like you're not someone I'm
15:18
Speaker 2: going to have to engage in combat with when I'm
15:20
Speaker 2: not ready for it or not really interested in it.
15:23
Speaker 2: It's not really feel like my job. I don't want
15:25
Speaker 2: to do that anymore. Um, and, uh, So I move,
15:30
Speaker 2: I open, I feel myself open to you. You've been kind. Uh,
15:34
Speaker 2: but you know, if I don't sort of record, I,
15:37
Speaker 2: some people, this will make sense to some, I suppose
15:40
Speaker 2: some people will be content with the bridge. They can
15:43
Speaker 2: cross from the loneliness that you described ball of pain lost.
15:47
Speaker 2: And by the way, when I first saw you, he's
15:48
Speaker 2: a well put together guy. You look kind of tough
15:50
Speaker 2: and intimidating. When I saw you outside, I see now
15:52
Speaker 2: that you're quite sweet, nice man. And that's preferable for
15:55
Speaker 2: me at least. Um, so from the outside, It's like
15:58
Speaker 2: you're doing very well.
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Speaker 1: No one else knows. No one else is concerned.
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Speaker 2: So me there, I drop, we must drop below and
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Speaker 2: recognize what is the desire? What does the wanting want?
16:12
Speaker 2: You are very blessed if you have become a drug
16:13
Speaker 2: addict and alcoholic because you will be forced to assess
16:16
Speaker 2: and accept that your dependency on drugs and alcohol cannot continue.
16:20
Speaker 1: You're going to die.
16:20
Speaker 2: It becomes really, really obvious. People will tell you the
16:23
Speaker 2: consequences can be listed. Look, if you carry on taking drugs,
16:25
Speaker 2: this is going to happen. That's going to happen.
16:26
Speaker 1: I get it.
16:27
Speaker 2: You're sent away. You have to accept, I've got to
16:29
Speaker 2: put that down now. And it helps you, whether consciously
16:33
Speaker 2: or not, more likely not, to recognize that your identity
16:36
Speaker 2: has compounded with an external stimulant. It's more obvious when
16:40
Speaker 2: it's a chemical, but ultimately the chemistry is taking place neurologically,
16:45
Speaker 2: whether it's an opioid or a stimulant, or if it's
16:49
Speaker 2: sex or behavior or food or someone else's approval there
16:54
Speaker 2: is a neurochemical response i'm not saying that's the ultimate
16:57
Speaker 2: or the essence the essence is in him we abide
16:59
Speaker 2: in him we walk with him we are yoked to
17:01
Speaker 2: him but seemingly if you live in a world where
17:04
Speaker 2: chaos proceeds out of chaos for some reason or for
17:08
Speaker 2: no reason chaos decides to create you know electromagnetic energy
17:13
Speaker 2: and thermonuclear energy and it creates the perfect conditions for
17:16
Speaker 2: life and then it can create love and then it
17:18
Speaker 2: creates complex evolving systems and illustrations of glory. And then
17:26
Speaker 2: in the midst of that, here you are alone trying
17:28
Speaker 2: to make sense of it. The consciousness emerging from biological
17:31
Speaker 2: processes for no reason. That doesn't make sense to me.
17:35
Speaker 2: Consciousness precedes matter. Consciousness precedes matter. The word, the vibration,
17:40
Speaker 2: the light, the photon, the particle and the wave precede
17:43
Speaker 2: the instantiation in matter, the slow vibration of condensed energy.
17:49
Speaker 2: is preceded by more diffuse, less sophisticated forms. Above his
17:53
Speaker 2: spirit hovered above the formlessness. I did not know that
17:58
Speaker 2: after the involuntary visceral spasm of Christ's cross in my gut,
18:04
Speaker 2: which is what happened. See, Jamie was, in fact, explained
18:08
Speaker 2: to me rather elegantly that how you know it's Christ, Russell,
18:11
Speaker 2: look at you, you have a facility for words and language.
18:14
Speaker 2: So Christ, when he comes, he doesn't give you a
18:16
Speaker 2: big string of words.
18:17
Speaker 1: He gives you a.
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Speaker 2: Feeling in the body. Like, what's that? I don't know that.
18:23
Speaker 2: What's that in the body? And what was I doing?
18:25
Speaker 2: I was being an addict all that time, whether with
18:27
Speaker 2: sex or drugs. So I was trying to get stuff
18:30
Speaker 2: into the body. I was trying to divinize or sanctify
18:34
Speaker 2: using false gods, trying to sanctify the body, trying to
18:37
Speaker 2: defibrillate a spiritual charge. into the body using whatever you
18:42
Speaker 2: can use in front of you, getting in a position
18:44
Speaker 2: where you can legitimize that because of the authority and
18:46
Speaker 2: power that comes if you're granted access to this false
18:49
Speaker 2: Babylon cathedral that I was in for a while there.
18:53
Speaker 2: So now though, what happens is, is in the increasing
18:56
Speaker 2: letting go, he must become more, I must become less,
18:59
Speaker 2: the new identity comes in him. So before I was
19:01
Speaker 2: worshiping myself, And the world through the lens of myself.
19:07
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
19:07
Speaker 1: I couldn't comprehend it.
19:08
Speaker 2: No one could explain it to me. You know, mate,
19:11
Speaker 2: I'm like them disciples.
19:12
Speaker 1: I'm an idiot. Like, you know, I'm an idiot. You're
19:15
Speaker 1: a very eloquent idiot. Thank you. I'm trying to keep
19:17
Speaker 1: up right now. We're talking vibrations. We're going, I get
19:21
Speaker 1: where you're coming from. The thing that keeps rattling around
19:23
Speaker 1: in my brain is the one thing that I hear
19:25
Speaker 1: you saying is there is some sort of metaphysical thing
19:29
Speaker 1: that happens in us when we yield our lives. When
19:32
Speaker 1: we lose complete ownership, when we surrender and something happened
19:36
Speaker 1: in you, not just a thought process, but something physically,
19:39
Speaker 1: viscerally in your gut happened when you said you can
19:43
Speaker 1: have it all Jesus. And for me, I can, I
19:45
Speaker 1: think it goes back to what I first said with, uh,
19:47
Speaker 1: when you, when you sat down, I saw. Christ in
19:51
Speaker 1: you on your knees, crying, pleading, praying. And I said,
19:56
Speaker 1: I recognize that spirit. I guess what, what I'm curious
20:00
Speaker 1: about is as someone who made it to the pinnacle,
20:03
Speaker 1: as someone who made it to the top, as someone
20:05
Speaker 1: who had the money, who had everything, as I said before,
20:09
Speaker 1: Can you take me into a moment where you said,
20:12
Speaker 1: I'm off here? Everything that I've been chasing is a
20:15
Speaker 1: false God. Everything I've been chasing is a grasping after
20:19
Speaker 1: the wind. You are maybe one of the closest pictures
20:21
Speaker 1: to Solomon we have on this planet right now.
20:23
Speaker 2: Oh, good, because he was very clever. Hold on a minute.
20:25
Speaker 2: He didn't learn the lesson concubines.
20:27
Speaker 1: Well, he was also the wisest man to ever live.
20:30
Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot of wisdom in you.
20:31
Speaker 1: And I think the Lord's given you an anointing. To
20:33
Speaker 1: communicate things. Like I think of you in Trolls, right?
20:36
Speaker 1: You had the voice.
20:37
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up. Right. It was a
20:40
Speaker 2: brilliant performance by me. It was.
20:42
Speaker 1: We were talking about it on the drive here. It
20:43
Speaker 1: was my favorite Russell Brand movie is you in Trolls.
20:46
Speaker 1: Because there is a quintessential Russell Brand thing in you,
20:51
Speaker 1: which is this eloquence. This ability to, with your words,
20:54
Speaker 1: get into things and get out of things.
20:56
Speaker 2: And to humor and to....
21:03
Speaker 1: Summon people to listen to what you have to say.
21:06
Speaker 1: And you're talking metaphysically about a reality that I've experienced,
21:10
Speaker 1: but I want to go viscerally. I want to go literally.
21:13
Speaker 1: Was there a moment where you found yourself on the floor?
21:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was on the floor. I was either on
21:19
Speaker 2: my butt or on my knees. I don't remember which
21:21
Speaker 2: right now, but I was on the floor in a
21:23
Speaker 2: green pasture by still waters with a shepherd thinking a
21:28
Speaker 2: German shepherd. It was a dog, thankfully. And I've This
21:33
Speaker 2: is it, you know, because I'm aware you're too kind
21:35
Speaker 2: and too Christian and too sincere and too lovely and
21:39
Speaker 2: transparent and real to do me this way. But I'm
21:44
Speaker 2: aware people are like, you've made this up. You've had
21:46
Speaker 2: these allegations and you've made this up. And, you know,
21:49
Speaker 2: I've just come from a conversation like that. And I
21:53
Speaker 2: sort of, in one way, it makes me sort of
21:56
Speaker 2: a bit sad because I would prefer to live in
21:58
Speaker 2: a world where everyone just told me I was fantastic
22:00
Speaker 2: all day long. That would be lovely. But also, I
22:03
Speaker 2: think those people can't understand what God is or what
22:07
Speaker 2: Jesus is. And I'm obviously not claiming that I understand
22:10
Speaker 2: what God is or what Jesus is either. But it's
22:13
Speaker 2: not voluntary. Of course, we assent. Of course, you know,
22:17
Speaker 2: do you accept him as your Lord and Savior? Do
22:20
Speaker 2: you believe that he walked the earth, that he died
22:23
Speaker 2: for your sins and that he rose again? Yes or no? Yes.
22:28
Speaker 2: All right. But now it's over. Now follow him. Now
22:32
Speaker 2: follow him. It's not like an intellectual proposition. It's not
22:37
Speaker 2: an intellectual proposition. If it were, my answer would be
22:41
Speaker 2: absolutely not. As an intellectual, I looked at it as
22:45
Speaker 2: an intellectual proposition prior to the cracking open, which by
22:49
Speaker 2: God's grace, I now see is an analogy that's frequently used,
22:53
Speaker 2: the cracking open of a seed and Who would dare
22:55
Speaker 2: to dream that some dead seed that you might gobble
22:58
Speaker 2: in a granola unthinkingly, if planted in the correct soil
23:02
Speaker 2: and given the water, would turn into a living thing?
23:05
Speaker 2: And if you can't see the miracle in that because,
23:07
Speaker 2: you know, you've switched off or maybe you're a farmer
23:09
Speaker 2: and you see it every day and you think, well,
23:10
Speaker 2: I ain't got time to be reflecting on miracles all
23:13
Speaker 2: day long. I've got another field to plow. It's glorious
23:16
Speaker 2: every time it happens. It's glorious every time a child
23:18
Speaker 2: is born, every time you see an animal born, or
23:20
Speaker 2: an egg hatch, or a sea bus, because you recognize
23:23
Speaker 2: that the superficial illusion The permanence of inertness of death
23:28
Speaker 2: is not real. He has swallowed up death. He has
23:30
Speaker 2: swallowed up death. And what happened to me? I cracked open.
23:34
Speaker 2: I cracked open involuntarily. Now, but when you say, were
23:38
Speaker 2: there moments of despair? There were nothing but moments of despair.
23:41
Speaker 1: Like C.S.
23:41
Speaker 2: Lewis again would tell you that when you, if you
23:43
Speaker 2: don't find the Lord, you'll look back at your life
23:45
Speaker 2: and it will all be purgatorial.
23:47
Speaker 1: It will all be great.
23:48
Speaker 2: It will all be empty. You will all be in
23:50
Speaker 2: some liminal space where you were looking for something that
23:52
Speaker 2: wasn't there. that you were looking for something that wasn't there.
23:55
Speaker 2: You can never have enough of what you don't really need,
23:58
Speaker 2: is what we say to addicts. When the seed breaks
24:02
Speaker 2: open and new life emerges, even though, of course, like
24:05
Speaker 2: any new thing, there is a sort of a beautiful
24:07
Speaker 2: fragility to it, like the fragility I witnessed once when
24:10
Speaker 2: looking at Jupiter through a telescope, like the fragility I
24:14
Speaker 2: once witnessed when at Mar-a-Lago looking at Donald Trump in
24:18
Speaker 2: a moment where he was talking to an aide. And
24:20
Speaker 2: I was wondering whether or not to go and talk
24:21
Speaker 2: to him, but it would have meant crossing over some
24:23
Speaker 2: sort of security thing. And I thought, man, you ain't
24:26
Speaker 2: trying to get nothing. There's no one can give you
24:28
Speaker 2: anything anymore. There is a beautiful fragility here in this temporary, fragile, fractal,
24:35
Speaker 2: small bandwidth. The whole of the bandwidth might be a
24:39
Speaker 2: mustard seed. This is a small part of total reality.
24:43
Speaker 2: We all know this. We all know perhaps when they
24:45
Speaker 2: talk about them poles of Ashar, them altars in high places,
24:49
Speaker 2: or when they talk about the horns on the various beasts,
24:51
Speaker 2: whether it's in Daniel's version or in Revolution. These are
24:54
Speaker 2: antennae detecting subtler forms of energy. We know from Ephesians 6.12,
25:00
Speaker 2: we fight not against flesh and blood, but against dark
25:03
Speaker 2: powers in the spiritual realm. The true reality is not
25:06
Speaker 2: the reality as received through the five instruments of the senses.
25:10
Speaker 2: You obviously conclude that that's the totality of reality because
25:14
Speaker 2: that's the reality that you're experiencing. But what if there
25:17
Speaker 2: were a sixth or a seventh or an eighth or
25:18
Speaker 2: a ninth sense? What if there were myriad limitless senses
25:22
Speaker 2: in the hands of the Holy One?
25:23
Speaker 1: Hey guys, I want to take a break and I
25:25
Speaker 1: want to tell you about a ministry that's really near
25:26
Speaker 1: and dear to my heart. It's called Compassion International. This
25:30
Speaker 1: organization goes into the poorest neighborhoods, neighborhoods that you and
25:34
Speaker 1: I couldn't fathom living in. And they find children and
25:37
Speaker 1: they sponsor these children, which means they get medical care.
25:40
Speaker 1: They get food. They get schooling. They get to hear
25:42
Speaker 1: about Jesus. And what I love about this organization is
25:46
Speaker 1: this is the heart of Christ. Jesus put little children
25:49
Speaker 1: on his lap and he said, this is the kingdom.
25:52
Speaker 1: He's constantly pursuing the most vulnerable children. And right now
25:55
Speaker 1: we have an opportunity to do that. The Lord has
25:57
Speaker 1: given us so much in this country. And my encouragement
26:00
Speaker 1: to you would be to click the link in the
26:01
Speaker 1: show notes or in the description. Scroll a list of
26:04
Speaker 1: children who have been waiting for a sponsor, many of
26:06
Speaker 1: them for years. And sponsor a child knowing you're not
26:08
Speaker 1: just doing it for them. You're doing it for Jesus
26:10
Speaker 1: because whatever you did for the least of these, you
26:13
Speaker 1: did for me. I think there are.
26:14
Speaker 2: Yes.
26:15
Speaker 1: I think you can even look at people who have
26:18
Speaker 1: gone to heaven and come back to earth. And you
26:20
Speaker 1: can see there's a lot of, um, similarities to what
26:23
Speaker 1: they experience and just this love, this, this other dimension
26:27
Speaker 1: of love that seems to come in. You talk about
26:29
Speaker 1: that in your book, which I've been loving your book,
26:32
Speaker 1: how to become a Christian in seven days. Everyone should
26:33
Speaker 1: go check out this book. It is equally hilarious.
26:36
Speaker 2: It is.
26:36
Speaker 1: If you, if just imagine Russell brand talking about Jesus
26:40
Speaker 1: in a book, that's what you get. It's, it's funny.
26:44
Speaker 1: It's eloquent. It's, um, revelatory. Um, I've loved it so far.
26:49
Speaker 1: So guys, we're going to put the link in the
26:51
Speaker 1: show notes in the description. This is one that, you know,
26:55
Speaker 1: a lot of people come on podcasts and, you know,
26:57
Speaker 1: want to promote books. This is one that I've read
26:59
Speaker 1: and I've loved. I'm so happy that you read it.
27:01
Speaker 2: Thank you.
27:02
Speaker 1: Yes.
27:03
Speaker 2: Will you tell the audience too that the audio book,
27:05
Speaker 2: they can download that for free because just so that
27:08
Speaker 2: people know that I'm not- Bro, I just.
27:09
Speaker 1: Paid like $ 18 for it.
27:09
Speaker 2: Well, you get the audio book for free. I'll give
27:12
Speaker 2: you the $ 18 back. I've not got it on me. Jake,
27:13
Speaker 2: have you got any money?
27:14
Speaker 1: We can get it in the car after this. Hey,
27:16
Speaker 1: I'll give you this one. I'll take your $ 18. Just
27:17
Speaker 1: take these glasses.
27:18
Speaker 2: Have my phone.
27:18
Speaker 1: One thing you say in the book though is you
27:21
Speaker 1: say we live in a simulation.
27:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
27:23
Speaker 1: Explain that. Because a lot of things you're talking about,
27:25
Speaker 1: they almost sound a little hippie-ish to me. You're using
27:28
Speaker 1: words like vibration and energy, and then you say things
27:31
Speaker 1: like we live in a simulation. Can you bring that
27:33
Speaker 1: into some of the Christianese? Yes.
27:35
Speaker 2: Yes, I will. If it is, well, firstly, it's not
27:40
Speaker 2: hippie-ish because it's Nikolai Tesla that says, if you want
27:43
Speaker 2: to understand reality, think in terms of frequencies and vibration
27:47
Speaker 2: and energy.
27:48
Speaker 1: Well, even neuroscientists like Dr. Caroline Leaf, who's a famous
27:50
Speaker 1: Christian neuroscientist. She explains energy and electricity and how she
27:55
Speaker 1: works with patients who have only a tenth of their
27:57
Speaker 1: brain and yet they're still operational because we are literally electricity.
28:01
Speaker 1: That is what pulses through us.
28:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. And neurologically too, I heard that even if you're
28:07
Speaker 2: experiencing it as light or vibration, depending on which sense
28:11
Speaker 2: you're utilizing... at some point as you process it becomes
28:15
Speaker 2: electromagnetic and is recreated. So it literally is a simulation.
28:19
Speaker 2: As I read in the brilliant book, Biocentrism by Robert Lanza,
28:22
Speaker 2: whatever it is you think you're looking at when you
28:26
Speaker 2: turn on your kitchen light in the middle of the night,
28:29
Speaker 2: having just come downstairs, pondering perhaps on the way down,
28:32
Speaker 2: does it exist when I don't look at it? Whatever
28:35
Speaker 2: it is, once you turn that light on and the
28:36
Speaker 2: photons hit the surface of the refrigerator and bounce into
28:39
Speaker 2: your eyes and are inverted as they travel down the
28:41
Speaker 2: optic nerve and reformed on the retina and then transferred
28:44
Speaker 2: through the i don't know the various parts of the
28:46
Speaker 2: brain but they are reasserted and reimagined and reconcocted it
28:51
Speaker 2: ain't what's actually there and it does require your participation
28:55
Speaker 2: even worldliness for you for worldliness to exist you must
28:59
Speaker 2: become a co-heir with worldliness you must participate in its
29:03
Speaker 2: creation through your faith through your belief, even to care
29:07
Speaker 2: about the World Cup or the World Series or whatever.
29:10
Speaker 2: You need to invest your faith and your time and
29:12
Speaker 2: your eyes and your mind. Or you could turn your
29:16
Speaker 2: gaze to him. Now, I don't know if we're meant
29:20
Speaker 2: to literally imagine a face or not. I don't understand
29:23
Speaker 2: what's beyond my anthropomorphic, animalistic, limited century set of instruments.
29:30
Speaker 2: But I do know that I feel something kinetic. And
29:33
Speaker 2: that's why I'm interested in this kinetic psychedelia is the
29:35
Speaker 2: phrase that came to me, is that it's something that
29:38
Speaker 2: was felt like the instrument. doesn't exist for it. The
29:41
Speaker 2: detection of the electromagnetic light range or the audible range
29:45
Speaker 2: of vibration. It's more like, is it called a somatic?
29:48
Speaker 2: What's that word for when they vibrate rice resonance and
29:51
Speaker 2: those patterns appear. See if like those people are telling
29:55
Speaker 2: the truth when they say, when you breathe love over water,
29:59
Speaker 2: The molecules formulate beautifully. If that's happened to us, and
30:03
Speaker 2: rather less hippie-ish, now that you've said that to me,
30:06
Speaker 2: like the menstrual cycles of females being affected by the
30:11
Speaker 2: lunar pull.
30:12
Speaker 1: Or them cycling together. Friends, like girls, when they get together,
30:16
Speaker 1: their cycles sync up. Or you speak to a plant
30:19
Speaker 1: and it grows better.
30:20
Speaker 2: What is this harmony? Where is it coming from? As
30:22
Speaker 2: you said to Nicodemus, our Lord, we don't know where
30:25
Speaker 2: the wind has come from or where it's going. Now,
30:28
Speaker 2: of course, the ability to measure that came in the Enlightenment,
30:35
Speaker 2: to magnify the senses through the microscope and the telescope,
30:39
Speaker 2: gave us a sense of cubristic command. All we were
30:43
Speaker 2: doing and all we are doing is observing the component
30:46
Speaker 2: parts with ever more accuracy. and in more articulate ways.
30:52
Speaker 2: But we don't know what's behind it. As Paul said,
30:55
Speaker 2: it don't matter who plants the seed or who waters
30:58
Speaker 2: the seed. God's growing it. And we forget that there
31:02
Speaker 2: is this ever-present mystery. There's this ever-present miracle at the
31:06
Speaker 2: end of our senses interacting with us. that the nervous
31:09
Speaker 2: system could be regarded as an interface with the infinite,
31:13
Speaker 2: that we are participating through electric signals with something that's
31:17
Speaker 2: very difficult to determine and define. My prediction is, and
31:20
Speaker 2: I think I said it earlier, some people it's enough,
31:23
Speaker 2: the bridge. They can just be shown through paganism and pantheonism.
31:26
Speaker 2: They can just see good people or an intellectual idea
31:29
Speaker 2: or the beauty of nature or whatever. Me, I need
31:31
Speaker 2: the man. I need the man God that knows what
31:33
Speaker 2: it's like to feel your skin bridle and tingle, to
31:36
Speaker 2: feel your gut clench, to know what it's like to
31:38
Speaker 2: feel real, real fear, to know what it's like to
31:41
Speaker 2: feel real desire, to know what it's like to cry
31:44
Speaker 2: because of other people's suffering and your own suffering. to
31:48
Speaker 2: be encased in flesh. I need, I can't be, I'm
31:53
Speaker 2: not saying it like as in my criteria, as in
31:56
Speaker 2: I demand a, a footballer that gets 25 goals a season. No,
32:00
Speaker 2: I'm saying I cannot do it. Again, C.S. Lewis, the
32:05
Speaker 2: Stoics' error is to assume that what a man can
32:08
Speaker 2: do sometimes, he can do all the time. Sometimes I
32:10
Speaker 2: can walk in a room and I can be very
32:12
Speaker 2: smart and persuasive or charming or whatever, but other times
32:17
Speaker 2: I don't want to be alive no more. I don't
32:19
Speaker 2: want to be here. I feel like a vagrant. I
32:21
Speaker 2: feel like an exile. It doesn't make sense to me.
32:24
Speaker 2: It doesn't work for me. And I've tried again and
32:26
Speaker 2: again to make it holy using my own limited means
32:29
Speaker 2: and my own broken tools. And it's never, ever, ever
32:33
Speaker 2: worked out. And it still wasn't an elective choice. It's
32:36
Speaker 2: not an elective choice. He chooses you out of the world.
32:40
Speaker 2: He chooses you out of the world. I don't know
32:42
Speaker 2: why he didn't choose me when I was five or
32:43
Speaker 2: six or seven. I was lonely and broken then. But
32:46
Speaker 2: he didn't. He chose me now. He chose me now.
32:50
Speaker 2: Once I've been through these systems, once I've learned this language,
32:52
Speaker 2: once I've tried quite a lot of false idols, once
32:54
Speaker 2: I've tried a lot of drugs, Once I've understood a
32:56
Speaker 2: few things around the way the institutions operate, the way
32:59
Speaker 2: that now I understand the organs of this system, whether
33:02
Speaker 2: they're political, economic or financial or cultural. I'm not claiming
33:05
Speaker 2: to be an expert in any of those areas, but
33:08
Speaker 2: I have a good understanding of how they cooperate in
33:11
Speaker 2: order to create a synthesis and a system of total control,
33:15
Speaker 2: claiming the qualities of the God they claim doesn't exist,
33:18
Speaker 2: claiming omnipotence through their constant omnipresence and their omnisurveillance and
33:24
Speaker 2: their omniscience. that they want you to depend on them,
33:26
Speaker 2: to come to them as little children. They'll tell you
33:29
Speaker 2: what to think, how to react, what injections to take
33:31
Speaker 2: at what time of year, what to believe in, what
33:33
Speaker 2: to watch on your TV, what food to eat. They
33:36
Speaker 2: want the kind of control that only God can handle.
33:41
Speaker 2: And when they invite us to be participants in that,
33:44
Speaker 2: we fall. And, you know, as much as I'm flattered,
33:47
Speaker 2: even with a passing and polite allusion to the great
33:50
Speaker 2: wisdom of Solomon, All I think when I hear that
33:53
Speaker 2: name is that dude wrote all that stuff and then
33:55
Speaker 2: went out saying, what's the point? Vanity, all is vanity.
33:59
Speaker 2: That's how he went out. That's how he went out.
34:01
Speaker 2: So I know there is nothing that can be achieved here.
34:04
Speaker 2: There's nothing to get here. There's nothing to get here.
34:06
Speaker 2: And I have to remind, there's nothing to get and
34:07
Speaker 2: there's nothing to lose. And it was a Hindu that
34:10
Speaker 2: told me when I was... I went to an ashram,
34:13
Speaker 2: maybe it's in the book of Amma, who's one of
34:15
Speaker 2: the holiest people I've ever met. She's beautiful, the hugging saint, Amma.
34:18
Speaker 2: She just says, all that everyone wants is love and
34:21
Speaker 2: all I'm going to give them is love. No judgment.
34:23
Speaker 2: She embraces people. She's Christ-like. She's beautiful, Christ-like. So she,
34:29
Speaker 2: when I went to her ashram some time ago in
34:32
Speaker 2: the past, I got a mantra from her and they
34:36
Speaker 2: ask what mantra you want. They do three types of
34:38
Speaker 2: mantra there. You can worship the vibrant nothingness like the Buddhists.
34:42
Speaker 2: You can worship Krishna like many of the Hindus, certainly
34:46
Speaker 2: the Krishna consciousness people who I love and respect deeply.
34:49
Speaker 2: Or you can have one mantra oriented towards Christ. And
34:53
Speaker 2: when she said which one?
34:55
Speaker 1: Christ.
34:56
Speaker 2: This was 10 years ago. This was long before I
34:59
Speaker 2: knew that I was a follower of his. I've always
35:02
Speaker 2: loved him. Everyone in their hearts always loves him. It's
35:05
Speaker 2: only people's brokenness and fear that keeps them from him.
35:08
Speaker 2: And yet he remains willing to continue to endure, for
35:13
Speaker 2: surely this is timeless, their shame that we may be free,
35:17
Speaker 2: that we may participate in this frequency with him. And
35:21
Speaker 2: they said to me there, the material world has nothing
35:24
Speaker 2: else to give you, Russell. It can only take from you.
35:27
Speaker 2: And I felt very frightened when I heard that. But
35:30
Speaker 2: as someone said to me, a person I prayed with recently,
35:33
Speaker 2: This means that you are resourced and you are sourced
35:35
Speaker 2: and you don't need anything from anyone anymore. There's nothing
35:38
Speaker 2: anyone can give you. There's nothing anyone can take from you.
35:41
Speaker 2: You are with him now. I'm with him now.
35:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's what I was getting at when
35:47
Speaker 1: I gave you the Solomon comparison. There's no one quite
35:51
Speaker 1: like you. And that is something I think a lot
35:54
Speaker 1: of people can learn from. It's, it's something I told
35:56
Speaker 1: Carl Lentz as well, who, you know, was the famous
35:58
Speaker 1: Hillsong pastor, right?
36:00
Speaker 2: He came around. He's a good guy.
36:01
Speaker 1: Okay. He's a great guy.
36:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
36:02
Speaker 1: Love Carl. He's a good buddy of mine. There's something
36:05
Speaker 1: he knows that not too many people on the earth know.
36:08
Speaker 1: There's a wisdom that you carry that not too many
36:10
Speaker 1: people carry on this planet. My last question for you
36:14
Speaker 1: is this, and it's probably the deepest question. If you
36:20
Speaker 1: knew this was your last message. To give not just
36:23
Speaker 1: to your children, your family, but to your brothers and
36:26
Speaker 1: sisters in Christ listening right now. I'm wondering even if
36:29
Speaker 1: you could even just look right at the camera, what
36:31
Speaker 1: would you tell them based off of what you've learned?
36:33
Speaker 2: Be in silence with him. Be in silence with him
36:36
Speaker 2: and talk to him. And even if you think this
36:39
Speaker 2: is not real, I don't believe in this at all.
36:41
Speaker 2: I think it's a made up thing. I think it's
36:43
Speaker 2: a trick, an institutional trick to subdue and control people.
36:47
Speaker 2: to tell them that they'll get treasure in heaven and
36:50
Speaker 2: not to store up stuff on earth. That's a smart
36:53
Speaker 2: thing for rich people to tell poor people. That's a
36:55
Speaker 2: smart thing for people with power to tell people with
36:58
Speaker 2: no power. If you can claw past, get through all
37:02
Speaker 2: of the rubble and deception that's been lacquered upon, shellacked
37:06
Speaker 2: upon and laying upon his holy grace, he's there. in
37:11
Speaker 2: and beyond time and available now. Like it didn't mean
37:16
Speaker 2: to make it sound like a commercial pitch, but he's
37:17
Speaker 2: available now. I mean now very deliberately as in, as Wittgenstein,
37:22
Speaker 2: the famous atheist philosopher said, when we consider eternity not
37:27
Speaker 2: to be a very large temporal duration, but the quality
37:32
Speaker 2: of timelessness, then eternity belongs to he that is in
37:36
Speaker 2: the present. That is where our Lord is. He's in
37:38
Speaker 2: the present. He is here. with you now. Inevitably, even
37:43
Speaker 2: I might not get to the door of this house
37:44
Speaker 2: without sort of feeling alone or like I want something
37:46
Speaker 2: or fearful or whatever. And all I have to do,
37:49
Speaker 2: like you, is turn back to him, to turn back
37:51
Speaker 2: to him continually and say, I messed up. Like Brother
37:55
Speaker 2: Lawrence said, I flipped my little omelet in the pan
37:58
Speaker 2: for Jesus. And it's enough to know, says Brother Lawrence.
38:02
Speaker 2: And Brother Lawrence is so cool that he didn't even
38:04
Speaker 2: take credit for this stuff. He goes, oh, a friend
38:05
Speaker 2: told me. That's how Brother Lawrence rolled this stuff out.
38:09
Speaker 2: to know that when inevitably you fail or you fall
38:13
Speaker 2: or you make a mistake or an error, that you go,
38:16
Speaker 2: that's as good as I can do without you. That's as,
38:18
Speaker 2: this is as good as I can do without you, Lord.
38:20
Speaker 2: Without you, this is all I got. And, but you
38:23
Speaker 2: love me anyway. You made me this way. This is
38:26
Speaker 2: not an exemption from order or consequence.
38:29
Speaker 1: Of course not.
38:30
Speaker 2: It's also not a denial of your individual glory. You
38:36
Speaker 2: are made in, like I say to people that are in, uh,
38:39
Speaker 2: into identity politics and want to be honored for perhaps
38:44
Speaker 2: some historic or political or philosophical struggle, you're not gone
38:48
Speaker 2: far enough. You're more unique than that. You're more unique
38:51
Speaker 2: than any sector or section that you could ever align
38:55
Speaker 2: or abide in when you were within him. He sees
38:58
Speaker 2: you more unique than that. He has a greater glory
39:01
Speaker 2: for you. There is nothing down here for you. There
39:03
Speaker 2: is everything. within him for you. It's all within him
39:07
Speaker 2: for you. A family of absolute inclusivity, of absolute harmony
39:12
Speaker 2: and truth. This ain't heaven though. This, but it needn't
39:15
Speaker 2: be hell. It's not heaven, but it needn't be hell.
39:19
Speaker 2: And I think because of Romans, is it eight or
39:22
Speaker 2: is it 13? You tell me that the whole of
39:24
Speaker 2: creation is groaning. He needs us. He wants us. We're
39:27
Speaker 2: here to do something. He wouldn't create us for nothing.
39:28
Speaker 2: We are co-heirs and we are co-participants. The kingdom is coming.
39:32
Speaker 2: The kingdom is coming. The merging of the two kingdoms.
39:35
Speaker 2: We keep thinking it's sort of political and material. And
39:38
Speaker 2: if we could understand it, then we wouldn't need him.
39:40
Speaker 2: If the law were enough, then he wouldn't have come,
39:42
Speaker 2: as Paul reminds us. So I say this. recognize that
39:46
Speaker 2: in silence or in however he comes to you, say,
39:50
Speaker 2: be aware of everything, whether it's that sound in the
39:52
Speaker 2: background or the cracking of Ryan's knuckles. He is continually here.
39:56
Speaker 2: He is present with you. He's communicating with you in
39:59
Speaker 2: all things. The magnolia behind Ryan's head is that this
40:02
Speaker 2: is a flower of hope. This is the bookmark that
40:04
Speaker 2: my wife illustrated in the Storms in the Desert book
40:07
Speaker 2: that I carry. It is the flower that blooms on
40:10
Speaker 2: the grave of my dog Bear, who was with me
40:12
Speaker 2: when Christ first came to me. Although he is always there,
40:16
Speaker 2: But for the king of space and time, there is
40:18
Speaker 2: no limitation. He is always present. And we can enter
40:21
Speaker 2: into that reality with him. Within us is the interface
40:25
Speaker 2: into eternity. It's kind of like something that you can,
40:29
Speaker 2: it's like a console. You have to collapse it into
40:32
Speaker 2: geometry to see it as a console. It's not like
40:34
Speaker 2: a dashboard and steering wheels and gears and stuff like that.
40:38
Speaker 2: It's an infinite web of geometric perfection that For surely
40:43
Speaker 2: if math, if music, then meaning. And the king of meaning,
40:48
Speaker 2: the creator of meaning, came and lived a story and
40:51
Speaker 2: told stories to show us that stories themselves require, in essence.
40:56
Speaker 1: Meaning, purpose.
40:58
Speaker 2: What will the counterfeit version of that be? No meaning, chaos,
41:03
Speaker 2: no order.
41:04
Speaker 1: You might as.
41:05
Speaker 2: Well do what you want. Nothing matters anyway. You might
41:07
Speaker 2: as well drink. You might as well take drugs. You
41:08
Speaker 2: might as well get money. You might as well find
41:10
Speaker 2: some way of artificially stimulating some antennae on your body
41:14
Speaker 2: into priapic pleasure. But his glory is present and eternal. Solomon,
41:20
Speaker 2: who's come up a couple of times today in his
41:21
Speaker 2: Song of Songs, there's that great ode to erotica, but
41:26
Speaker 2: the love for him, his flesh, his blood, present now,
41:30
Speaker 2: whether in apparent solid, the particular, or apparent liquid, the
41:33
Speaker 2: holy liquid, the water, the water that was placed into
41:36
Speaker 2: the manger. the water that Joseph must become to escape
41:40
Speaker 2: the empty system, the living water that is in us now,
41:44
Speaker 2: beyond us, through us, within us, abiding in us, collapsing
41:47
Speaker 2: all paradox, unique and individual, yet part of the whole.
41:51
Speaker 2: May you find him now. There's nothing left for you here. Nothing.
41:56
Speaker 2: I was imagining saying it to my daughters. Nothing left
41:59
Speaker 2: for you here, although hopefully I'm not going to sort
42:01
Speaker 2: of die before I can tell you this again in
42:03
Speaker 2: person later. Amen.
42:06
Speaker 1: That was beautiful. Can you close us in prayer? Would
42:08
Speaker 1: you pray for the listener?
42:09
Speaker 2: All right.
42:11
Speaker 1: God, you're with us.
42:12
Speaker 2: You hear us. You know what I'm going to say.
42:13
Speaker 2: You know everything I've said. You know my flaws, my fallibility.
42:16
Speaker 2: You know my tendency. You know my inclination towards personal glory.
42:21
Speaker 2: Strip it away, Lord. Anything that is not you, of you,
42:24
Speaker 2: in you, through you, abiding in you, Lord, we can't
42:27
Speaker 2: use it no more. God, I ask in particular for
42:29
Speaker 2: the people that are listening to this, I'm feeling pain.
42:33
Speaker 2: I pray for my enemies, like you say, Lord. I
42:35
Speaker 2: pray for those that wish ill upon your family and
42:39
Speaker 2: your children. I pray that you can reach them. I
42:42
Speaker 2: pray for the souls that passed without knowing you, Lord.
42:45
Speaker 2: I pray that they will be embraced. I pray for
42:48
Speaker 2: those that are thinking of suicide, that lost their lives
42:50
Speaker 2: through drugs. I pray for all of those, Lord, that
42:54
Speaker 2: walk before us, that were sacrificed, that were martyred for
42:58
Speaker 2: your name. Lord, I thank you, Jesus Christ, that you
43:02
Speaker 2: came here, that you became flesh. You did something you'd
43:04
Speaker 2: never done before. You entered in a time and you
43:08
Speaker 2: entered in a space to create a narrow gateway, a doorway,
43:12
Speaker 2: a branch, a vine, life eternal, accessible to us. Lord,
43:17
Speaker 2: you said we would do greater deeds than you. Inconceivable,
43:21
Speaker 2: though that may seem, when we consider what your St.
43:25
Speaker 2: John said in that period where you were risen. that
43:29
Speaker 2: the world ain't big enough to contain the books required
43:31
Speaker 2: to list the things you did, Lord, even in that period. God,
43:35
Speaker 2: we accept it. We accept the charge. We accept your glory.
43:39
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jesus, that you died for every one of us,
43:42
Speaker 2: whether we believe in you or not, and you're there
43:45
Speaker 2: whenever we need you. I accept you as my savior.
43:48
Speaker 2: I accept you as my king. And I pray that
43:50
Speaker 2: all that hear these words will surrender and let go
43:53
Speaker 2: because you don't convert to Christianity. You perform apostasy against
43:58
Speaker 2: the false religion of the fallen one. In Jesus' name
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Speaker 2: we pray, amen.
44:01
Speaker 1: Amen, amen. Guys, thanks for tuning in to the Jesus
44:04
Speaker 1: People podcast. We will see you next week.